Unless it’s a Christian or Parochial School, it shouldn’t be displayed.  It’s that simple.  A publically funded educational institution shouldn’t be promoting ANY religious preference whatsoever.  That’s what churches, synagogues, mosques and temples are for.  That’s the whole idea behind seperation of church and state.

This is another example of how far the pendulum has swung in the country to where the trend is that no one must be offended by anyone over anything for any reason.

Idiocy of the highest order.

If this person is offended by a Christian display and it gets removed, then all displays of any offensive kind need to go; and chief among them as a chaplain in my own right is anything dealing with Atheism.

And Glenn you are right, the pendulum has swung so far that for those of us trying to live our faith we have no rights anymore.

Secularism and Atheism ARE religions, and much of what we display in the “public” space now supports them both.  As a society, we have the right to choose how our children are educated and what they are exposed to in public places.  The Constitution does not deny us that.

And when we let the rights of a few literally trample the rights of the many, we have failed to live up to our responsibility under our Constitution, which formed the best foundation for government ever implemented on a large scale in the history of the world.  Even the vaunted French with their bloody, 70-year revolution (yes, it really was that long in the final analysis), finally came around to the basic principles of our Constitution.

Atheists are over-playing the victim card, and it will come back to bite them.  We won’t be suckers for it forever.

Tyranny of the minority or the one.  For her the mural could have been viewed as an expression of a culture from an earlier time, quaint, but not meaningful.  Not to be — she wants it destroyed.  She will graduate from high school and move on, maybe even change her mind in later years and be genuinely apologetic.  Too late. The expression will be destroyed in her wake and deprive succeeding classes of viewing the gift from another age.  This is only the beginning.

The tolerant tolerate intolerance and *endure* the destruction.

The intolerant tolerate nothing and *do* the destruction.

Why else would Atheists try so very hard to convert people?

@ SOG.So let me get this straight? Any religious symbols or related material should not be displayed in the public school system. If that is the case I want Darwinism and all evolution thrown out as a secular religion. After all Karl Marx even spoke of Darwin’s work as follows- if Marxism were to become the political governing model Darwinism (evolution) would be the STATE sponsored RELIGION. You are teaching your evolution religion to my children under the disguise of science, I want it removed. Welcome back to Feudal europe ladies and gentleman the only thing missing is the ruling royal blood class. Oh wait they are called progressive, community organizers, Professors and activists now. Instead of royalty by blood lineage it is now royalty by political ideology and tyranny in a social organizing , open society suit. Also NOWHERE does the constitution gaurantee separation of church and state. The constitution merely states CONGRESS shall make no law respecting religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. This merely states as Thomas Jefferson explained that the FEDERAL government cannot give political power to the churches in such as a state sponsored religion. However, The states and communities CAN. Read your history people the original 13 states had sponsored state religions. John Adams argued that religious instruction was essential upon all citizens ( Your Choice of course but some was required-see Benjamin Franklin’s definition of the American religion) and incorporated some of this philosophy into Massachusetts STATE Constitution. The Federal Government and supreme court has overstepped their bounds in ruling what people at the state level can and cannot do (See 10th Amendment). The Supreme court is wrong in this case is that state public schools are being judged by federal criteria. They achieved this by federally funding the public school system. In other words although the state public schools have the right to display religious themes or symbols of any particular religion atheist or otherwise, they are held hostage to unconstitutional activist federal judge rulings who could be fought but then the public school loses its FEDERAL funding. Coupled with the cost of the case and fighting atheist progressive activist groups like the ACLU it is less expensive and less hassle to comply. If the states were to rally on this point like the health care law they could challenge the supreme courts authority and send the ACLU to hell where they belong.

No. The idea of separation of Church and State is that the State will not command others to accept one religion over another. It is to defend and conserve the rights of religious people, not to protect the government from religious people NOR to debase one religion in order to protect the religion or non religion of others.The school is not endorsing a religion over another, it is displaying a prayer that represents A LARGE part of the population of the school. Nowhere did I read that the school is saying everybody better believe in the Heavenly Father or else. Atheists are free to believe or not or to agree with the sentiments yet not believe in the Heavenly Father part. She could have made a similar statement and asked for it to be placed next to the prayer. She could have displayed that without a Heavenly Father all students should be good kids and so on and so forth. Instead of showing the world that as an atheist she can have the same belief systems and behavioral attitudes towards ethics and good morals as those that have a Heavenly Father, she showed the world that she is an angry person that wishes to use the government as a weapon and sword against people in her school. How is that tolerant on her part?

Agree @tonybigs She is destroying a cultural item from the large population of her school in this particular case. She wouldn’t like it if the shoe was on the other foot and a cultural item representing her beliefs were being destroyed by a MINORITY in her school.

The danger of applying specious knowledge without wisdom:  sow a false freedom and reap destruction.  These young will be our future judges, lawyers, politicians and jurors — on our watch and if they have any way to legislate it — with our permission.

Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God.– Benjamin Franklin….

“IN HER SCHOOL” = government bldg.  That’s the difference Beck.

Scince is not religion, so your statement is absurd and you know it.

Lack of belief in a myth is not a religion. You don’t believe in Zeus.  Does that mean you’re a member of the Zeusethistic religion? Your views are distorted, desperate and hilariously wrong.

There are many things being done today that people from previous generations would have considered “impossible”, “unthinkable”, “unspeakable” and “unconscionable”.

Now those things are possible, thinkable, speakable and conscionable — along with many others.

You state Science is not a religion, yet science is already being employed to help legislate (im)morality, bit by bit.  Stick around.

Our school = government bldg.  We are all what we are.  If one looks for religion they will find it, if one looks for atheism they will find it, if one doesn’t know what to look for, they will find something.

Some people view buildings as an application of God-given talents and resources.

Let the razing begin?

you will see that SOG is a bigot and hates christians so he is just a waste of time to reason with.

yes it is but i don’t think you are that smart to see that. you yet again show bigotry.

you don’t know the half of it. i see people like Beckisnuts and SOG as sun worshipers. seeing how Science says that a star give birth to us and we are made of star dust but we are the crazies not the atheist. i am so glad that i let that stupidty.

These things will change only when we ignore them and the idioitic rulings of the court and practice our free speech and religion as we wish.  Let them scream and yell and let’s see if they have the guts to throw us in jail.

There is no more appropriate place to share religious thought than in a school. Religion is history, the history of humanity is displayed through religion in one form or another. It should be shared and discussed, as with all knowledge, never suppressed.

im a christian,not perfect by any means,just like everyone else im a sinner and fall short of perfection…but what do i have in common with the MAJORITY? I LOVE MY FREEDOM!!!!! Ask your self something. what is freedom?  lets look at the base of the idea…. to do what you want in the  pursuit of happieness,but at the same time not infringing the rights and safety and well being of others pursuit of the very same…no doubt we all have different views.so why must a christian be silent?why do we have to give up that right of EXPRESSION and religion,why is it ok for  one to be free but for another to not?am i hurting someones rights by stoping in school and droping to MY knees and thanking the lord for helping me pass that crazy class i just passed? christians are free and believe in actual freedom not this pretend freedom” socialism” that this tyranical gov. is tryin to shove down our throats.In no way does this government care about either one of these religious or athiest groups!!! BUT if you look at each group which would be easier to crack down on in the case of gov take over?certainly not the christians because we believe in FREE WILL, so for the socialists to get theyre way they have to destroy christianity,because FREE WILL is the strongest opposing force of socialism!!! its that simple,muslums dont believe in freedom just look at theyre history!!!FREE WILL is always the victor over EVIL  governments through out history!!!! IN SHORT WE NEED TO FIGHT BY ANYMEANS!!! PLEASE PEOPLE DONT GIVE UP ON FREEDOM AND BE WASHED UP IN THIS EVIL WHIRL POOL WHICH IS TAKING THE RIGHTS OF US ALL, CHRISTIANS AND EVERYONE ELSE RELIGIOUS OR NOT, AND FLUSHING THEM DOWN THE TOILET!!! THANK YOU FOR READING! GOD BLESS YOU AND GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

well said.

If the ACLU is there to,  “to defend and preserve the individual rights
and liberties guaranteed to every person in this country by the Constitution and laws of the United States.”  If this is their mission, then why are they not protecting my individual rights to pray, and display my faith? They are just arrogant bigots. They are going to destroy my rights, in-favor for the other persons. They are not living up to their own mission statement.

its going to hapen anyways.

If the end times are near, we can count on it.  This year will be very interesting. Keep the faith Ryan.

 athiests are easy to rule,for example if a scientist says jump they say how high…they believe in NOTHING,if we evolved then why arent we still crawling out of the ocean? and if god is not real then why do you care we woship him  where ever we chose? why do you care?you dont believe!! how does it hurt you? FREEDOM FOR ALL!!!! thats the dream…but with people like you its turning into the nightmare we all are going regret…

We on the right are like bad parents with a spoiled brat, screaming little child.  At some point the little brat needs a spanking.

first question if atheist don’t believe in a god why do you guys even care what we do? second question with are schools being runned by the left is it realy a good idea for the schools to teach about God? the last question what if this was done by the students themself? my school allowed bible studies being runned by students now i am not going to say which school because we all know that atheist want to wipe us off the face of the earth bu why can’t we just let the students deside to do these things.

The heavens declares his handiwork.

according to the constitution everyone has the right to freedom of religion ….but look at the constitution….it references God….and all our laws are based on God’s commandments….when our country is enveloped with God then how can anyone deny God or deny anyone from praying….freedom to pray and freedom to not listen….

exactly!!! freedom to listen or to not,but freedom none the less..

You touched on a main point Ryan.  I don’t get angry with people who believe in the tooth fairy anymore than I get upset with atheism.  My one beef with them is when they try to force their belief on me.  Even though I know they are wrong, they have a right to their own belief.  They, however are not tolerant, as we are.  I mean, we even allow the atheist to have his own holiday, April 1st.  LOLTIP

Someone needs to stand up against Atheism. Why do they only have a voice ? I understand we are Christians, but i am tired of seeing signs for Atheism and not for God!

iF SHE DOESN’T LIKE THE PRAYER, STEP OUTSIDE, WHO THE HELL IS THIS SNOTNOSE TO TELL A SCHOOL WHAT IT CAN DO.  HAVE WE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS.  THEN YOU HAVE JARRETT, THE SUPREME LEADERS  SIDEKICK, SAYING A LL KINDS OF BAD THINGS, AND RACIALLY CHARGED THINGS, IN A CHURCH.  SHOULDN’T THEY LOOSE THEIR  TAX EXEMPTION AND WHY ARE WE SPLITTING AND MAKING THE BLACK COMMUNITY HATE THE WHITE COMMUNITY.  OUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF IS HALF WHITE.  ooops, BETTER NOT SAY THAT.

right on maryanne!!!!

According to the bible, when Israel honored and obeyed God, they were blessed and prosperous. When they turned their back on God, he would give them evil leaders and let their
enemies overtake them until they turned their hearts back to HIM.  God still deal with nations in the same way. Politics doesn’t determine the condition of our country…..our hearts determine whether we are blessed or cursed.  Do our enemies have to be allowed to overtake us before America will bow its knee before the true and living God?  I guess if you don’t believe in God then you are just blind and naked (spiritually) speaking. You are free to believe what you want but you are also foolish.  If you are a Christian, wondering what is the right response to people who oppose our freedoms to worship, here is what I believe is the answer…..Thank God we still have a constitution, for now and pray, pray, pray for our country.
The best advice is found in the bible….”If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, then will I hear from heaven and heal their land.” (Chronicles)

A few quotes I dug up along with the sites they came from:
　
　
Jefferson’s original text reads: “… I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” In 1797, the United States Senate ratified a treaty with Tripoli that stated in Article 11:As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were “intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced. President John Adams and the Senate made clear that the pact was between two sovereign states, not between two religious powers.”　The separation of church and state is related to freedom of religion, but the two concepts are different and one should not infer hastily that countries with a state church do not necessarily have freedom of religion, nor should one infer that a country without a state church necessarily enjoys freedom of religion.
　
Separation of church and state is a concept based in the Establishment Clause, found in the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. The Establishment Clause was extended to apply to the states through the Fouteenth Amendment, and prohibits laws dealing with the establishment of religion. Neither the state or federal government may enact laws which aid one or all religions, or give a preference to one religion over another. The Establishment Clause was intended to prohibit the federal government from declaring and financially supporting a national religion.
Some governmental activity related to religion has been declared constitutional by the Supreme Court. For example, providing bus transportation for parochial school students and the enforcement of “blue laws” is not prohibited. There is often tension between application of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause, which protects the exercise of religious freedom. Common issues involving the Establishment Clause involve the inclusion of religious symbols in public holiday displays and school prayer, among others.
　
　
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Separation_of_church_and_state
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state
http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/separation-of-church-and-state/

So the way I see it, go ahead and practice your religion.  Drop to your knees and pray whenever you wish (as long as it doesn’t impede traffic, of course).  Gather with those who believe like you do.  Spray paint John 3:16 on the side of your house if your Home Owners Association will allow it.  Put a 10 ft. tall Menorah in your front lawn, or a Buddhist shrine in your driveway.  I don’t care, not one microscopic bit.

But as soon as a Federal or State paid employee hangs a religious prayer or symbol in or on public, tax payer funded property or institutions this argument will continue I suppose.  Some people will never let it die.

According to the bible, when Israel honored and obeyed God, they were blessed and prosperous. When they turned their back on God, he would give them evil leaders and let their
enemies overtake them until they turned their hearts back to HIM.  God still deal with nations in the same way. Politics doesn’t determine the condition of our country…..our hearts determine whether we are blessed or cursed.  Do our enemies have to be allowed to overtake us before America will bow its knee before the true and living God?  I guess if you don’t believe in God then you are just blind and naked (spiritually) speaking. You are free to believe what you want but you are also foolish.  If you are a Christian, wondering what is the right response to people who oppose our freedoms to worship, here is what I believe is the answer…..Thank God we still have a constitution, for now and pray, pray, pray for our country.
The best advice is found in the bible….”If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves, turn from their wicked ways and seek my face, then will I hear from heaven and heal their land.” (Chronicles)

Whatever happened to majority rule?  The student should have been told,  ” Too bad!  If you don’t like it you can lump it! “

To the little girl that doesn’t believe in the “Heavenly Father” – WWWAAAHHH (you want some cheese to go with that whine?) Well damn, girl, don’t listen. Do like a friend of mine at work does when he hears co-workers use language he doesn’t approve of (he’s Mormon).
He just ignores them and goes about his business.
And I’ll just bet that unless this little girl is in High School and can form her own opinion, she’s being coached by an atheistic mommy and/or daddy.

Just one more reason for Religious people to start shunning the Public School system. Its disgraceful that one person [she was the only one against it] can dictate what is displayed or not displayed. I hope the instant she’s gone the prayer goes back up. 

It takes more faith to believe in evolution (what the atheists believe), than to believe in God and creationism.

If this is a publicly funded school then I agree with the girl, but if it is a Catholic or other private school then they could post what the hell they want. I am also an atheist but I don’t care what theists do except when they try to impose their beliefs on us non theists.

Religion is a personal matter and should not be forced on anyone who disagrees with whichever belief system you choose. You are free to worship and hand out bible tracts to your hearts delight but you can’t expect to display your beliefs in state run facilities etc.

For pete’s sake, you dumb little dope, don’t read the stuff on the wall. Better yet, grow some and protest the porn you see in advertising and on TV.

You are so right freedomfighter…very well said.

1st off, she’s just trying to grab her 15 min. of fame. 2nd, we have let the fringe dictate to the rest of us for far too long now and it’s not going to be easy to reverse this course,especially when, as stated, the judges in this country are part and parcel of the fringe.socialists,communists,idiots all

Exactly. Atheists would be all about “Majority rules. suck it losers.” if they were the majority. Thank God they’re not.

The first amendment protects the rights of the minority from the majority. Christians are a majority so she is perfectly within her right to have it removed. Our nation was founded as one that granted freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion citing President Jeffersons famous “Letter to the Danbury Baptists” where he discusses government must erect a wall that separates church from state. Madison’s “Memorial Remonstrance” cited that requiring religious tests to hold an office excludes all other religions. Christians would be screaming from the rafters if they saw an Islamic prayer banner louder than the godless girl and they would expect the government to back THEM! Jefferson and Franklin wrote that freedom of thought begins with freedom of religion as a personal choice that does not involve the government in any form or fashion. This is how the Spanish Inquisition occurred and the persecution of Catholics and Separatists by the Church of England from 1500-1700 in England and the Puritan church in the American Colonies. Our founders saw the need for tolerance and the need to keep church and state as far away from each other as is possible.

You have to feel sorry for this little girl who at her age has been indoctrined that there is not a God and is forcing her belief on all the millions that don’t believe that. Those who believe in God have as much right to what they believe as this atheist girl. We don’t force our beliefs on others but practice those beliefs quietly, not attracting attention as this little girl is. Her belief is the minority so she should  be more tolerant and realize her demands are not going to always be answered, unfortunately this situation is gaining attention. She is not an exception to the rule or to belief. She must learn to be more tolerant of different religions and not press the issue the way she is doing. It won’t be a good outcome…believe me.

I dont think the government should play any role in school affairs such as prayer. Damnit I am 26 years old, i remember saying the Pledge of  Allegiance, every single morning first grade to my senior year. The kids that did not wish to participate were no forced to in any way, if u wanted to u could wait in the hall until we were done. After that we had a moment of silence and those who wished to pray did so, even out loud. Which bothered me not one bit. Did i mention i do not claim any religion,  I am atheist, but not stupid. When the “big debate” began over the “God” word in the Allegiance, it still did not bother me, i just simply did not say the “Under God” part. Does this make me not a true American? I know religion is what started the United States Of America, but times have changed, and people with it, but we still have the right to chose our religion, as American we can not take that away. 

Do you honestly believe that a prayer on a wall is “forcing” a belief on someone else?

Grow a thicker skin.  I have to put up with your insults towards God and my religion and I ignore you.  Learn to do the same.  Anything less makes you a hypocrite.

And if there were no God, there would be no atheists, as your very belief revolves around the fact that there is no God.

On today’s show There was a girl/woman who was put up to speaking out against GOD. I figure she was put up to it by her mother, because I am not sure she sounded old enough to think that way.
In the case that she was old enough; tell me some facts; FACTS; where are the things we see On Star Treck; Star Wars; how about on these other MOVIES!
I get so tired of these idiots saying  “MILLIONS OF YEARS AGO….
Who was there to tell?
If an Individual is capable of thinking for their self, go to scroll down to”SEMINARS” look at the seven or so seminars that explain how the world was most likely formed.
These seminars will take around an hour each.
When done you WILL have a very good idea of how the world was most likely formed.
My e-mail is
DADDYSR7@ATT.NET@ATT:disqus 
lease let me know if you go there so I can know someone is listening.
I post on “jointheteaparty.net”

It’s a sad day when the minority can rule over the vast majority of people. The girls voice is already sounding like the wicked witch that Dorthy faced in the Wizard of Oz. Someone needs to pour water on her and she’ll dissolve in to some bad smelling smoke. Have you noticed how people today are actually taking on the physical characteristics of the demons they represent in their arguments. We saw two ladies yesterday on Fox discussing the decision Texas has made to require those getting abortions to have a sonogram, see the baby, hear the heartbeat, and have the doctor explain the procedure in detail. The one arguing for the life of babies looked like a perfectly normal woman pleading for the lives of the unborn babies. The other woman had cropped hair and was as butch as they come with a terrible hardness in her face. She looked like she’d kill them all herself with her bare hands if she could. What is it that can suck the life and love of God out of someone to the point that they look like the Devil? We’re seeing with our own eyes a transformation. 

You must be offended to use our money. 

Not surprised.  The prejudice that we see now in America against Christians is nothing compared to other parts of the world, however, and nothing compared to what things will become later.  We are in the ‘Last Days’, but when will the prophesies come to fruition?  Only the Lord knows.  And though we have been given plenty of warning about what is to come, the events are called like birth pains, they may come abruptly or they may take their time, so we do not know ‘when’ but we do know ‘what’.

I am not offended that she is an atheist. Non of forefathers were atheist. She must be offended  every time she uses our money. She should be happy that she has the freedom to move to any other country if she wants.  I am sure Russia Cuba would like to have her

Please do like every other atheist and agnostic would do and keep you belief to yourself. In the end all you’re doing is the same thing that you blame the other side of. Pushing their beliefs on others. The truths of the past and the realities of the present are not easiliy reconciled. This truth has been unwavering throughout history. Once you accept this fact life will be much easier. This applies to all.

At this moment it is still America. She has the nright to b offended. That is as far as it needs to go. 

Public schools are not allowed to endorse religion. Simple fact.

Ever heard of geology?

So the majority should be able to have it’s faith endorsed above all others by government? Not according to the Supreme Court. We are a republic, not a democracy.

Did god put “In god We Trust” on money?

But they seem to be allowed to endorse atheism!

Other kids aren’t indoctrinated by their parents that there is a god? I’ve been an atheist my entire life and nobody told me to think that way. My parents told me I could believe whatever I wanted to. I chose not to believe. I’ve been happy ever since.

No, they’re not. The Supreme Court has said that public schools can not endorse religion or atheism.

When has their ever been atheist signs in schools? And what public school employee can read minds and punish you for your thoughts. Only god supposedly does that, which isn’t very moral when you think about it.

ACLU is a joke and self serving.They have no more regard for the constitution than a red headed pecker-wood… That sumbuck will beat his drum on your tin chimney any day he wants to….and S C R E W Y O U

If people like you are in the majority than God’s word is true. In it it clearly says that Satan will convince people he doesn’t exist. In the case of atheist he has won hands down. So you are fulfilling Bible prophecy even if you don’t know or recognize it.

We’ve been instructed to not throw pearls before swine. We have bigger battles to fight and win. Go to a private school if you don’t want whine-prone “atheists” attacking a/your school’s rights and privileges.

They do protect your individual right to pray. Students are allowed to pray in public schools as long as it is not led by a staff member and as long as it is not disruptive. The ACLU has successfully defended many cases where individual student rights have been violated.

We’re a republic, not a democracy. The majority can not overpower the rights of minorities.

The school (if it is clear and courageous) would stand and say “Yes, we follow Christian values and believe in a democracy based on Christian values.  See, we are so tolerant of all beliefs that we let you study here.”

So, god punishes innocent people for the thoughts of people he disagrees with? And you worship this god?

Prayers have been said in our schools since its founding. If the founding fathers didn’t want them said they could have stopped them right at the start. They didn’t. So any reasoning person would come to the conclusion that there is nothing wrong with them being said or posted on government property. Only when the country started to get on a “stop all religion” kick did any of this happen. Separation of church and state is not mentioned in the bill of rights. It only mentions that there be no law respecting an establishment of religion. The separation is myth that got started much later. Then it got put into law by the Supreme Court quite apart from the original intent of the framers.

That would be fine if it was a private, Christian school.

i thank God every day that i am not one anymore. they hate us why who knows. they think they are better then us that we are morons for feeling the way we do. that is why they hate us they have an ego that needs to be stroked.

that what they believe LOL!

question are you pre or post trib?

The school should not be endorsing any religion. A non Christian student could be led to believe that they receive unfair grades because they are not Christian.

Yes, we are a republic.  But in social microcosms closer to democracy. And in this case the minority does not have the right to overpower the nature of the policies of an institution they voluntarily attend.

hey there SOG,you know if you dont want tax dollars going to schools for religous views then tax dollars shouldnt go to preach evolution which the public schools are doing all across america,or do you blind your self the facts?you athiests  believe in nothing and cant wait to disrupt others exercising theyre right to pray…and not all home owners associations are letting you do that,do you even read the news or watch it?this stuff goes on everyday,people getting told to take signs out of theyre front yards that say god bless our soldiers,while allowing athiests to put up signs saying thank god for dead soldiers..when they both have the right to do both of those things..if you want  to defend these people go ahead its your right,its also your right to eat sht but its just wrong to do that.lol…and I can remember in school i wasnt allowed to pray on school property or i would be kicked out,how is that fair?you people dont want it fair,you want it one sided.your way or the highway..its plain to see the way you say you dont care if we pray but support these screwed up athiest groups by quoting a christian,WOW…anyone could quote a awesome leader,but to stand for something and to believe in something is much harder to do than just repeating what you hear or read,the government is just using you and your little group of minority friends to control the masses,and to push theyre socialist agenda every where,the reason your so easy to control is because you believe in nothing and your views have no foundation to build on so they can build your future for you,but at least christians believe in something like freedom because free will is all part of GODS plan so its in us all!!! athiests believe in what ever they here nasa say or the aclu says.. you know these athiests dont have a clue!!!  i talked to this guy in portland oregon,i was up in this little bar just having a couple of beers when this guy walked in rain soaked,and sits at the bar and tells me this story about this crazy guy who just gave him a ride in the rain all the way over 20 miles to the bar and droped him off.i says to him well atleast he was kind enough to give you a ride,he said yah but he was a christian and  started praying for me and of course the man was an athiest and said to the man who gave him a ride he didnt believe,but the man prayed anyways.All this athiest did was talk all this stuff about how if god existed then why was i left in the rain for hours and why did i have to ride with this weirdo all the way to town, and i said well maybe god sent him to you,well the man said i dont believe in god,i just walked away from him at this point because well i had a few in me and didnt come there to argue about the existince of GOD to and idiot that didnt even appreciate the ride this guy just gave him,my point of this story is to explain that christians are generally good people and do good things for everyone even people that hate them,flush out your head gear bud,god loves you just as he loves me we are all equal under his eyes…its more challenging to be a christian that it is to be athiests because of people like that…

hey there SOG,you know if you dont want tax dollars going to schools for religous views then tax dollars shouldnt go to preach evolution which the public schools are doing all across america,or do you blind your self the facts?you athiests  believe in nothing and cant wait to disrupt others exercising theyre right to pray…and not all home owners associations are letting you do that,do you even read the news or watch it?this stuff goes on everyday,people getting told to take signs out of theyre front yards that say god bless our soldiers,while allowing athiests to put up signs saying thank god for dead soldiers..when they both have the right to do both of those things..if you want  to defend these people go ahead its your right,its also your right to eat sht but its just wrong to do that.lol…and I can remember in school i wasnt allowed to pray on school property or i would be kicked out,how is that fair?you people dont want it fair,you want it one sided.your way or the highway..its plain to see the way you say you dont care if we pray but support these screwed up athiest groups by quoting a christian,WOW…anyone could quote a awesome leader,but to stand for something and to believe in something is much harder to do than just repeating what you hear or read,the government is just using you and your little group of minority friends to control the masses,and to push theyre socialist agenda every where,the reason your so easy to control is because you believe in nothing and your views have no foundation to build on so they can build your future for you,but at least christians believe in something like freedom because free will is all part of GODS plan so its in us all!!! athiests believe in what ever they here nasa say or the aclu says.. you know these athiests dont have a clue!!!  i talked to this guy in portland oregon,i was up in this little bar just having a couple of beers when this guy walked in rain soaked,and sits at the bar and tells me this story about this crazy guy who just gave him a ride in the rain all the way over 20 miles to the bar and droped him off.i says to him well atleast he was kind enough to give you a ride,he said yah but he was a christian and  started praying for me and of course the man was an athiest and said to the man who gave him a ride he didnt believe,but the man prayed anyways.All this athiest did was talk all this stuff about how if god existed then why was i left in the rain for hours and why did i have to ride with this weirdo all the way to town, and i said well maybe god sent him to you,well the man said i dont believe in god,i just walked away from him at this point because well i had a few in me and didnt come there to argue about the existince of GOD to and idiot that didnt even appreciate the ride this guy just gave him,my point of this story is to explain that christians are generally good people and do good things for everyone even people that hate them,flush out your head gear bud,god loves you just as he loves me we are all equal under his eyes…its more challenging to be a christian that it is to be athiests because of people like that…

hey there SOG,you know if you dont want tax dollars going to schools for religous views then tax dollars shouldnt go to preach evolution which the public schools are doing all across america,or do you blind your self the facts?you athiests  believe in nothing and cant wait to disrupt others exercising theyre right to pray…and not all home owners associations are letting you do that,do you even read the news or watch it?this stuff goes on everyday,people getting told to take signs out of theyre front yards that say god bless our soldiers,while allowing athiests to put up signs saying thank god for dead soldiers..when they both have the right to do both of those things..if you want  to defend these people go ahead its your right,its also your right to eat sht but its just wrong to do that.lol…and I can remember in school i wasnt allowed to pray on school property or i would be kicked out,how is that fair?you people dont want it fair,you want it one sided.your way or the highway..its plain to see the way you say you dont care if we pray but support these screwed up athiest groups by quoting a christian,WOW…anyone could quote a awesome leader,but to stand for something and to believe in something is much harder to do than just repeating what you hear or read,the government is just using you and your little group of minority friends to control the masses,and to push theyre socialist agenda every where,the reason your so easy to control is because you believe in nothing and your views have no foundation to build on so they can build your future for you,but at least christians believe in something like freedom because free will is all part of GODS plan so its in us all!!! athiests believe in what ever they here nasa say or the aclu says.. you know these athiests dont have a clue!!!  i talked to this guy in portland oregon,i was up in this little bar just having a couple of beers when this guy walked in rain soaked,and sits at the bar and tells me this story about this crazy guy who just gave him a ride in the rain all the way over 20 miles to the bar and droped him off.i says to him well atleast he was kind enough to give you a ride,he said yah but he was a christian and  started praying for me and of course the man was an athiest and said to the man who gave him a ride he didnt believe,but the man prayed anyways.All this athiest did was talk all this stuff about how if god existed then why was i left in the rain for hours and why did i have to ride with this weirdo all the way to town, and i said well maybe god sent him to you,well the man said i dont believe in god,i just walked away from him at this point because well i had a few in me and didnt come there to argue about the existince of GOD to and idiot that didnt even appreciate the ride this guy just gave him,my point of this story is to explain that christians are generally good people and do good things for everyone even people that hate them,flush out your head gear bud,god loves you just as he loves me we are all equal under his eyes…its more challenging to be a christian that it is to be athiests because of people like that…

It is your views that are desperate and distorted as can be attributed to your visceral knee jerk reactions to both Beck and people of faith. You are merely reacting to those with whom you disagree. You espouse nothing of originality or even make a coherent point other than bigotry. Try again with a little substance next time. Now for my point. To believe that there is no God is having faith that there isn’t which cannot be proven ergo you are an atheistic religious zealot.

I think it’s wonderful that your parents didn’t force you to believe what they believed. But I’ve known many through my 65 years of living that have not been as fortunate but forced to believe what their parents believed or be kicked out or disowned. When a person is not given a choice they eventually will make that choice on their own whether it be good or bad. Thanks for your comment.

Not a fact, but a Constitutional discussion.

I think we need to pray for this girl because when you say something like she did……..God will give her a chance to believe and sometimes it meeting him face to face sooner than later!  There is a church across the street from me that has a sign…….right now it reads….Christians need to Step up not Step BACK!  Since when does the right of one person rule what everyone does?  I would like to see a Christian, a Mormon or a Jew come up with something that they feel they don’t like and see if the ACLU steps up for their right!  Somehow the ACLU seems to dissappear!  Just like the women’s rights groups have dissappeared on the fact that China KILLS most of their baby girls!  Why are they not saying anything?  Because they want the right to kill children in the womb!  May God have Mercy on us all!

Endorsing is not the same as permitting.

LETS PRAY OBAMA GETS REMOVED –  THAT CONMMUNIST SLAVER. – MARXIST RETARD.

What’s geology got to do with anything?  You do realize that there are flaws with just about EVERY form of geological dating, don’t you?  Only those who are arrogant would claim they know FOR A FACT exactly how old the earth is.  The ONLY way they would know FOR A FACT is if they were millions of years old themselves.

Just chuckling over here recalling an emailer that sent out the ACLU’s headquarters’ address in DC asking people to kindly send a simple “Merry Christmas” card.  Easter is coming up …

You are an idiot.  There is absolutely NO freedom from religion granted in the Constitution.  There is only a freedom of religion.  The first amendment does NOT protect the rights of the minority from the majority.  You have to be a complete and utter idiot to say it does.  It protects the rights of EVERY individual, period, no matter what their belief system happens to be.  You have a flawed understanding of what the separation of Church and State really is.  Get a clue, please.

Such as overpower the right to ignore what is written on a wall.

Instead, she chooses the right to pay attention to what is written on the wall and desires the right to destroy it.

There is no such thing as an innocent person.

Are you nuts?  A non Christian student could be led to believe that they receive unfair grades because they are not Christian?  What idiotic world do you live in?  NO student would be stupid enough to even think that.  Wait.  I take that back.  You might.  LOL  Besides that.  Just because there is a prayer at the school does NOT, in ANY way, mean the school is endorsing that religion.  It just means they merely accepted it.  NOTHING more.

How about gullible?

Hey freedomfighter2012,

You having trouble with this site today too?  I noticed the triple post.  LOL

#1.  You don’t know me, or what I believe, so don’t lump me in with any group.

#2.  I didn’t think we were discussing RELIGION here, I thought we were discussing LAW.

#3.  I don’t feel the need to share my religious/philisophical beliefs with strangers, but I do like discussing various topics with various people, as long as they are open minded and have a logical argument.  That is a rare commodity here.

#4. ALL OF MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY are Christians.  ALL my neighbors are as well.

#5. NONE OF THEM are as closed minded, shallow, illogical and filled with rage and hatred as the self-professed Christians that I have run across on this site.  The hypocricy and bigotry here are astounding.  I’m sure God is proud.

#6.  You wonder why our rights are being eroded, why the government is increasing surveillance, why NDAA was rammed through Congress and the Patriot act extended, why we are becoming a Police State for all practicle purposes?

Just read some of the near psychotic rantings that have been posted here in the last few months.

Atheist sure are ignorant.

If there were such a thing as a true “atheist”, then this kind of thing wouldn’t bother them in the slightest. The truth is, it “offends” them because it reminds them of their sin. Regardless of what they say (not believing), there is a belief in there one way or another.

SOG, I probably shouldn’t talk to you again, but I will to state this one thing.  A display of a specific religion is NOT in ANY way a promotion of said religion.

Now, with that being said, you clearly have absolutely NO understanding what the separation of church and state is.  It merely means that the state will not control the church and the church will not control the state.  NOTHING more is meant by it.  Get a clue, already.

Now.  Good bye.

“non-Christian students could be led to believe” - Hmm. Interesting and so true.

Ah, but lack of belief in anything is a theoretical impossibility.  Everyone believes in “something,” and that something guides their behaviors and their interactions with others.  There is no such thing as not having a belief system.

The school either put it there or allowed it to be displayed. That is endorsement, my friend.

So, the only way to know if Jesus existed was if you were two thousand years old?

No problem.

Atheism IS a religion. However, atheists refuse to admit it. Hmm, that’s 2 things they refuse to admit. “Free thinkers” eh?

Well, that’s not how I understand it from reading what is laid out in black and white.

Atheism is not a religion. It is one belief. Or better yet, the lack of one belief. That’s it.

Would you want suras from the Koran posted in public schools?

Innocent enough not to deserve foreign countries invading their country.

Let the parents, not the board, vote in each school district their policy on this issue.  Seems to me an easy solution.

Atheism is absolutely a religion. Hence the need to “spread their ‘reason’ to others”. It’s not the “lack” of a belief in any way. In fact, there’s no such thing as a “lack of belief” – if they believe God doesn’t exists, they “believe” he doesn’t exist.

Finally, someone who can truly think. Thank you for this. I’ve been saying this same exact thing for years.

Makes me sad to be a citizen of this state.

You clearly do not understand the concept of atheism. When somebody is an atheist, that just means they don’t believe in god. That’s it. There is no atheist church, priest, prayers, doctrine, etc.

You just can’t be happy with freedom of religion, can you?

Many people tolerate many things they do not endorse, be it art, speed limits, people, writings, food, hairstyles, murals…

The intolerant desires to destroy these things.

Why can’t people just be happy that they have freedom of religion? Why do they feel the need for government to help them in their faith? Is their faith that weak?

you are brave because we know nothing smart is going to come out on his end. poor SOGGY can’t get over the fact that their are people that believe in God.

No, it’s not. The easy solution is what we have now. Public schools can not say prayer is better than not praying and vice-versa. They stay neutral on the subject. Students can still pray as long as it’s not disruptive and as long as it’s not led by a staff member. What’s the big deal? Nobody is offended and the religious rights of the individual are upheld. It’s not governments’ job to pick what religion is better.

I am a true atheist and I have led a rather moral life. You speak awfully broadly and are very judgmental for someone who I assume is a Christian.

People punish themselves, they embrace the Evil and get exactly what they embrace.

God, in his love, commands us to not embrace the Evil.  We are told what is wrong and people still choose wrong.

God permits Free Will choice.  Choose wisely.

Funny. Apparently it’s you who can’t understand what I’m saying. I know what you’re saying, but you’re just wrong. No sense in continuing this conversation with you, since you just don’t “get it”. Hopefully you’re not an atheist, since you don’t seem to understand your own “belief”.

By the way, who said you need a church, priest, prayers, doctrine to call it a religion?

The ACLU has defended people of every faith. This isn’t about being offensive anyway. It’s about separation of church and state.

My atheism is not evil.

I have no problem at all with freedom of religion. It’s atheists who have the problem with it.

Most people. Please explain why atheism is a religion.

Not true. I support your right to believe whatever you want.

Call out the so-called “judgement”. I’m merely calling you out on your own belief system. I have no problem with you believing whatever you may. That’s your choice. I’m simply defining what an atheist is, but many of your kind refuse to see it.

Atheists don’t share the same belief system, because it isn’t a religion. An atheist can be conservative, liberal, etc.

Great. Then we agree on that. No issue with that here.

The only people that have rights are atheists and muslims. Just like the arabs in this world, neither can get along with anybody of a differing belief and even with some of those of their own belief. Atheists and muslims deserve each other. If you cannot get along and accept others for what they are, then you don’t belong amongst them. If you are so weak minded, then leave our wonderful country and find one where you can live in your own cuckoon without bothering others nor being bothered by them.. Why not go where you will be happy and leave us alone.

We used to be, but I see little evidence of it now.  As in the days of the Judges of ancient Israel, your rights are as tenuous as the fickle reason of people in black robes  who see themselves for the most part as little gods.

The vast majority of atheists have no problem with freedom of religion. That same freedom gives us freedom from religion with no fear of persecution.

What exactly did the sign say, and what type of school was it?

My rights are just fine.

why do they even care what we do? i never did when i was one.

God explains this to us in Romans 1:17-2:2:     ”For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.      For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.    Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served thecreature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Let her be offended. Atheists voicing their opinion offends me.

It was a Christian prayer and it is a public school.

Everyone has a God.  If you reject all others, you have set yourself as that God.  That was the original sin.  Satan said “I will be the most high”.

Your freedom of religion does not give you the right to have public schools endorse your faith. Your children can still pray in public schools, nobody’s rights are violated by taking this sign down.

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices

Source: dictionary.com

Public schools can not endorse religion.

he would hate my high school. the lets have bible study and even pray as long as it was lead by us students. the ACLU can’t do a dang thing about it and drives them nuts.

There are no innocent people.  For all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.  Job suffered for reasons he did not understand.  Later, he was told why the Lord allowed that suffering.  But Job was Faithful and said, “Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him”.

And they do not …

It’s a new Liberal Progressive strategy.

So, atheism is not a religion. Atheism has nothing to do with the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe. Atheism has no fundamental set of beliefs and practices. It’s simply the lack of belief in god. Atheists are free to think how they want, so there is no body of persons adhering to any particular set of beliefs and practices.

Not true, they fight those rights.

No persecution on my end in any way. Just a discussion. That’s all. And a good one I might add.

You’er a fool if you believe that.

Wrong. Do a little research. The ACLU always defends ANYONE whose individual religious rights have been violated.

What a ridiculous belief.

Hanging a prayer banner in a public school is endorsing religion. How could you possibly think it is not?

What’s next?   Cowarding to SuzyQ because her boyfriend plays for the other HS football team and her own school taped up a “Rah Rah Our Own Team” poster?  Tail wagging the dog.

If it was based on “free thinking”, that would make all people atheists. Anyone/everyone is free to think how they want. Christians choose to think one way, non-Christians choose to think another.

“so there is no body of persons adhering to any particular set of beliefs and practices.”

I would disagree. Every atheist I’ve ever known believes in evolution/big bang, etc. That’s the definition of religion.

Not anymore than Walgreen’s sale sign for condoms endorsing promiscuous sex.

Married couples can use condoms too. And they are a private business. They could put up a prayer banner for all I care.

live in a alternate reality?

What rights do you think are in danger?

Some Christians believe in evolution and the Big Bang Theory as well. They have nothing to do with atheism. Honestly, they don’t really affect my life in any way. Does your religion affect your life?

So, if I went to the ACLU and demanded they put that poster back up as I was offended because I believe in the Heavenly Father, do you think they would fight to put it back up?  Or do you think the ACLU fought for the other students who wanted that poster up?  Its very hypocritical of them to not see both sides of it.

Evolution and Big Bang don’t define atheism, but it is the a foundation for their/your belief. You believe something caused you and the earth to be here. Something got the ball rolling.

As for them not affecting your life, you wouldn’t be here if something hadn’t happened. 

As for me, yes God affects my life – thankfully.

This is just one more reason why schools should be taken out of the hands of the government and privatized.  If you don’t like it, attend another school that suits your taste.

My point is that a simple sign is not an endorsement.  IT’S JUST A SIGN!  Not any more than crazy hair cuts or colors or piercings or tatoos (hmmm .. another public in your face “sign”).  The rights I fear I am in danger of losing are the right to freedom of religion and the right of freedom of speech.  “Separation of church and state” has been hijacked and twisted.  It is not in the Declaration nor in the Constitution – it is simply a philosophy placating an old fear that a government would intertwine and rule with one specific belief system within its legislature.

I would say, nowadays, the vast majority of atheists do have a problem with religion. In fact, there is a growing hatred for Christians specifically. You don’t come across as one of those people – but they are out there. For those who do, however, it seems to me – if these atheists really don’t believe in God, it makes no sense as to why they would have any problems at all with Christianity. Or in this case, prayer – no one forced her to pray – therefore, it’s really none of her business.

TylerDurden – it was a great discussion. However, I must call it an end for now. Perhaps we’ll chat again on here in the future. Warmest regards. – aj

Separating church from state makes your church stronger. Why would you want an inept government to have any hand in your spiritual beliefs?

Enjoy your evening.

??????????

Public schools are an arm of government. If you want religion in school, go to a private school or send your kids to one.

Separating church from state makes my church stand on it’s own without fear of persecution. My point exactly … I don’t want the government anywhere near my beliefs.

But you want government to hang prayer banners, therefore endorsing one religious belief over others?

Oh give it a rest Tyler! Many of us have to see things every day–porn on prime time tv that we have to hide from our children, students NOT permitted to pray in MANY public schools even if done privately, (and DON’T tell me it doesn’t happen–as a HS teacher in one of the finest public schools in NJ I have seen the rebuffs !) and the ACLU does nothing.. Thank goodness there is the ADF which is finally coming into its own and fighting and winning Against the leftist ACLU

Why would I want the gov to hand anything?

We are not a Christian Nation. Prayer banners do not belong in public schools. If that’s your cup of tea, go to a private religious school, send your kids to one, or donate money to one if it makes you feel better.

Time to say no more, state by state, county by county, city by city.  Time to clean out these judges that don’t follow the constitution.  Kick them all out, and parents don’t allow your schools to brainwash your children any more.   Time to make sure it isn’t happening, even if it means taking over the PTA and the school board meetings. 

But why should I have to pay two tuitions?

Taking down the banner does follow the Constitution. Public schools can not endorse religion. Any student there is still free to pray as long as no staff member participates and as long as they are not disruptive.

I am sick and tired of my rights being ignored for the few atheists that don’t have their head screwed on right.

Send your kids to a public school then. They can still pray. They just won’t have religious based classes or school led prayer. No big deal.

May I suggest the same for you?  If it makes you FEEL  better than send your children to an empty, narcissistic, everyone-gets-trophies school.

Your rights are no being ignored. You and your children can still pray wherever you want. Government can not endorse any religion over another.

I thought you don’t want government involved with your faith.

Any student that happens to should contact the ACLU. They will defend the student’s right to pray.

And there is no porn on prime time tv.

I agree with your question … why?

I find this naive.  Maybe this is what you’d like to see but the reason this discussion is as long and passionate as it is is because it’s not reality.

No. The government can give me back my tax dollars they force me to pay for a system I disagree with.  I should not have to subject my children to a system that allows staff members to help my child with moral issues. 

Show me where it SPECIFICALLY SAYS FREEDOM OF RELIGION in the Constitution which is the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND??? YOU CAN’T! The first amendment states “Congress shall make no law respecting no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE THEREOF…”. Webster’s dictionary defines a religion as “a personalized set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes beliefs and practices.” and “scrupulous conformity”. If your read “Words We Live By” by Linda R. Monk and “The Constitution:A Biography” by Akhil Reed , “A Brilliant Solution” by Carol Berkin and “Ratification” and “American Scripture” by Pauline Maier and you will see these leading Constitutional scholars explain that the very essence of every amendment in the Bill of Rights was created to protect the individual against the majority ruling class. Also, read “Founding Faith” by Steven Waldman and you will see that the founders view on religion was that of giving every American the CHOICE to choose the religion they feel best fit their values or choose not to believe at all. So, as you can see I am far from an idiot just a bit more well read than you.

This dimwit is only the results of parents as stupid as she.

Agree!

What makes you think I want the gov involved?  What part of “leave me alone” don’t you get?

AMEN!

I don’t get the power of the minority nor the ACLU defending the non religious individual since the defense could be from both sides of this issue. Who is right? Who is wrong? I think this little girl was urged on by a father and/or mother who uses the child to make a public statement for notoriety, their minute of fame and attention. What a sad home she comes from!

A public school putting up a prayer banner is government involving themselves with religion.

Do you think she is stupid because she is an atheist or because she thinks that church should be separated from state.

Standing up for her rights does not mean she comes from a sad home. My parents told me I could believe whatever religion I wanted when I was growing up. I instantly chose atheism and haven’t regretted it since. I think it would be sadder for a child to be taught their friends who don’t have the same spiritual beliefs as them will burn for eternity.

I am a Republican. I am against worshiping Democrats. Please remove pictures of President Obama from all public schools.

Nobody worships Obama.

You expect to be taken seriously with that comment?

Or, you go to a private school if you can’t handle not being told what to believe constantly.

Aggressive atheism offends me. Will the ACLU file suit to protect my rights?

Maybe in another life Dood.

Sort of…

They always have some kind of justification.

Clarence Darrow made it quite clear what the ACLU was up to. Google for Scopes trial. The ACLU cannot abide the concept of a God who will be Judge. Therefore they cannot abide Christianity, and therefore Christians.

don’t forget atheist are sun worshipers.

We are a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC. Without the protection afforded us in the Bill of Rights the majority could very easily usurp the rights of the minority. The 5-7 th amendments were included to protect the individual against the awesome powers of the state and the Establishment Clause in the First Amendment was included for those who chose to not believe with the majority. Read up on the Anti-Federalists and their insistence on a Bill of Rights to get the Constitution ratified.

Perhaps, whoever posted the prayer on the school wall some 50 years ago, was also foisting his/her beliefs on all the students at the school and should never been posted in the first place

Except when you tell them that the sun is warming the Planet, then the sun is irrelevant.

I have never heard of a case where the ACLU defended someones right to pray.

Why is it okay for a Mental athiest tell me there is no God but it’s not okay for us just put up a sign with God on the sign. 

Kids are supposed to be seen and not heard.  She should have been told to sit down and shut up. A generation of sociopaths is on the way.

Is that why teachers are getting kids to sing songs about him?????  

I see Obama 2012 billboards up that offend me because “I don’t believe in Obamao.” It doesn’t mean they should take them down, even if a majority of people see that he’s full of crap. I see atheist signs all the time in public. But no one’s forcing me to be an atheist, as no one’s forcing that kid to be Christian. Mark Levin’s “Liberty and Tyranny” book explains this whole concept in great detail. The Founding Fathers established the First Amendment to protect against the creation of a “Church of the USA,” like the Church of England settlers had come here to escape from. They never called for state imposed atheism.

i am shocked that my pal SOGGY has not attack me yet he must be getting soft.

Even if its true?

It’s very clearly a case of stupidity as are most atheist arguments. If you don’t like it don’t read it duh!!! but don’t infringe on my right to do so because you don’t want to. That’s like saying I don’t like chocolate ice cream so dairy queen should quit selling it. Like I said stupidity. Aren’t there frivolous lawsuit laws?

Even sadder if it’s true.

the fool has said in his (her) heart there is no god. Kids usually pick up their attitudes at home, at least at that age.

They should all stare into the eyes of their god.

For now, maybe.

Nor can it do anything to infringe upon it. So a school prayer on a school wall being removed would be infringing religion, unconstitutional!

is she going to a catholic school, if she’s an atheist, why is she going to such a school

Since there are so many right’s, Some people do get confused, Let’s see.We have up-right, the right side, Down right. The other right. We even have the far right, I think one should get the point, So when do one lose their right, At that point in time when you refuse the other person their right, Example; If you wanted to go into a building, And I blocked the door so you could not enter, I lose my right. If you tell me that a picture of Christ offends you. then I would say don’t look at it. And if you showed me a picture I did not like, you could tell me don’t look at it. If I used your logic, And what you don’t like must be done away with, Then if you had something that you thought was very beautiful, I may want to rip it apart. So let us be very carefull what we pick out not  to like, because dislikes work both ways.

Yes religious freedom is in danger. the reason this republic was created.

Limiting staff from school prayers is an infringement of religion. Taking down the banner is an infringement of religion. Unconstitutional!

If the first congress which wrote the constitution following the declaration of independence, could use the Bible as a textbook in schools, and pray for hours before starting the nations business, and did not feel those actions were unconstitutional (they being the ones that wrote it) how can we today state with any sense of rationality that we must allow religion to be shuttered from public view?

Your argument is historically and logically defective.

they did that is why they are so blind they can’t see themselves as bigots like SOGGY.

something to cry about.

This nation was not founded as a Christian nation, but it was founded as a nation of Christians. Christianity was not to be mandated or forced, but it was to be encourages and supported. Tha’ts what the constitution says, and many of the fathers wrote to this end. Said one: our constitution is only an instrument for the rule of a righteous people. Another stated that the nation would be ruled by the Bible of the Bayonet.

Surly this wasn’t the language of a shuttered religious nation.

James Madison felt that Congress should not have chaplains.

It should have never been there to begin with. School sponsored prayer messages have no business in a public school. Why ostracize atheists, MusIims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.? There is such a thing as private religious schools if school led prayer is something you feel is important.

There is nothing wrong with being an atheist.

The constitution says nothing about Christianity having to be encouraged and supported>

Get over it, I have gotten over you. It take allot of faith to have none.

Yet they consider themselves the only ones with enlightenment. It is amazing to me how such supposedly intellectually superior people can be so unbelievably ignorant.

This is the typical, me-oriented atheist who wants to be shielded from having to see anything that someone with different beliefs might cherish, but also wants to be able to push their beliefs on others, and let’s be clear here, atheism is a belief system. Just because they don’t acknowledge another being as God doesn’t mean they don’t worship something. It’s usually themselves that they worship.

Just wondering, think may be a good thing to talk to the students of Cranston West, ri. Maybe with Jessica Alquist there, before she leaves. It would just be an interesting, teacheable moment, something that was not allowed to the students at the school as after the appeal they were told not to talk about the banner incident.

It’s a public school. It’s obviously a violation of the Constitution and the banner has since been taken down.

No, they don’t. They are there to make sure that no one can wear clothes that have any type of religious symbolism or images on them at any time (as long as it’s not Muslim) or that students don’t give out Christmas cards, or meet after school for prayers or Bible studies voluntarily anywhere on school grounds. I have personally heard of such lawsuits, and I know they happen. 

Why do so many posters feel it is their right to have government endorse their religion? I can only imagine the outrage if a public school put up a banner with suras from the Koran. And they would be right, but don’t be a hypocrite.

You didn’t do a little research, did you? The ACLU always sides with anyone’s individual religious rights. The Supreme Court has said that students can legally pray in schools. Any school that says they can’t is wrong and will lose in court.

What she (and others like her) should be told is that if we are going to have a truly free society, then freedom of religion must be enforced equally, and impartially as long as nobody’s being harmed. Just because she has to see something that she disagrees with does not mean she’s being harmed. She needs to be told to respect others as she expects them to respect her. The world can’t be constructed to ensure that she will not be offended her whole life.

In no way is that true. This nation was founded on prayer and the Bible. The Continental congress printed 100,000 bibles so that every student could have one for use IN SCHOOL.

What is unconstitutional is the restraint of religion, championed by the so called atheist movement (atheism is an oxymoron – the best they could hope for is that there may be no god – its an illogical and unprovable position)

So if you don’t want your precious little snowflake to be exposed to the redeeming values of religion, then home school her!

Look at Liberty MO and see just what happens in a society where Christianity is eliminated :

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apPubPage.aspx?pub=1&issue=559&article=536

I don’t seem to recall any suras being used in the convocation of the Congress, etc. Maybe it really doesn’t belong here? But maybe the Bible and prayers to the one true and powerful God do!

What exactly is your opinion here, Tyler? Are you suggesting that the sign should go, or are you suggesting that Glenn and the rest of us are hypocrites, because you’re wrong on both counts. The Constitution says in part ” shall make no rule establishing religion OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXPRESSION THEREOF…..” That second part is what so often throws people who seem to think the Constitution would prevent people displaying anything to do with religion. And for the record, you are the one who seems to need to do YOUR research a little better. No way does the ACLU “always side with individual religious rights.” They have time and again showed up to try and deny Christians the right to free expression of their faith. How many times have they gotten involved to try and have religious symbols purged from public view? Try too many to count.

No violation there – just a wimpy administration! No guts! No sense of justice or history

The problem with athiests is that by having to view things like this, they have to again remind themselves of why they consider themselves to be such, and these prayers, etc remind them that theirs is an irrational and temporary decision. Irrational because it defies logic and history, and temporary because whatever their claimed belief, someday they will very certainly believe in God. It won’t be pretty!

They didnt protect my individual rights in this case. “Congess shall make no LAW…..or prohibit the free exercise there of. This was not a law,  it’s just a banner, but they did violate free exercise of religion. The judge was simply wrong, they are only human. There is no, “separation of church and state law” those are only words that people parrot, they’ve heard someone else say. even if one didnt believe in God, something like the banner makes the world a better place and makes the world more pleasant to live in. Realize the only reason anyone would want to do something about it is, they are not thinking it through,  and it just creates more control over the individual. Food for thought, really.

That would be an establishment of religion, which is unconstitutional. We have the freedom to believe what we want. Public schools can not endorse any religion.

Your sense of justice is giving preferential treatment to one religion over another. That’s not right and it is not the job of government.

Do you really mean to tell me that, knowing there is an eternal judgement awaiting those who reject God’s plan for their salvation, that it would be better not to tell someone how to escape judgement and let them pass into eternity with no hope of salvation? Just to sooth your ruffled feathers?

This is simply illogical. If I knew the bridge ahead was washed out, you wouldn’t want me to tell you? If that can of soup you were cooking contained botulism, you wouldn’t want me to tell you?  Give your head a shake. There’s a reason why the first Chief Justice of the supreme court would beg those sentenced to death, in the courtroom, to accept the death of Jesus as payment for their sins, rather than spend eternity in Hell!

If you could do so in the Supreme court as a Justice, why cannot we do so in our schools?

Except its an illogical gamble. If there is no God, and I’ve lived a life following an imaginary God, I have lost nothing. I have had a happy, healthy and prosperous life.

If there is a God, and I’ve rejected him, I’ll spend eternity in hell.
You call this rational? And by definition, being irrational IS wrong.

Just asking; have you ever read any of the founding fathers? Of course it should have been there. Our nation was founded not on any particular Christian sect, but as a nation and a congress of mostly Christian individuals, with a public declaration of our dependence on God for is Blessing

America gave rights to worship to all religions, but the nation was founded upon the Bible, and the discipleship of Jesus.

Every public building constructed by the Congress and the American government had scripture carved into it as a part of the construction. Its only those who want to rewrite history who seek to remove that from our heritage.

Point?  They still had one. Find me another example? Can’t!
In fact, I’d like you to cite a reference for that statement!  I’m not sure you can.

The Old Testament does not contain one reference to hell. It’s not until the New Testament and the religion of “peace” that the terrible crime of questioning the status quo will send you to an eternity of pain and suffering. What a god!

I wonder then why we had so many prayers appealing to the Christian God for his blessings on the nation even before the declaration of independence, national prayer and fasting towards the Christian God for help in time of war, etc.

You are simply wrong, and historically illiterate. Its right in the preamble of the declaration of Independence, and in the constitution of many states.
http://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html

” . . .
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights . . . We, therefore, the Representatives of the united
States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme
Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intention . . . .And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the
protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives”

And an accurate asumption about the intention of the constitution can be gathered from the way those who signed it followed it. Since the Continental Congress, as one of its first acts, had printed 100,000 Bibles for the use of the students, it seems rather obvious to any thinking person that there was no intended prohibition of having the Bible is every classroom.

That’s a historical fact you cannot avoid.

We don’t need god to be a great society. Don’t forget that these great Christians used the bible to rationalize their slaves. They were flawed men, and the bible is not the book to look to for leading a good, moral life. Neither is the Koran for that matter if you were going to try to say I single out Christianity.

The constitution simply says, Congress shall make no LAW  respecting the establishment of religion OR prohibiting the free exercise there of. No law was made, but the free exercise of religion was prohibited. The world’s a mess. Why does God allow things to happen? Who knows, but then again we have asked him to leave so many places, didnt we. The banner made the world a better place, many are insuled and in emotional distress because it is not there. e should be concentrating more on real work and  the economy.

Actually, in many schools they cannot . . .

Not too difficult to reference. In case you didn’t know, John Madison was the author of the First Amendment, and he was also the author of Article VI, which states that “no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust”. In his book “Detached Memoranda”, he makes it very plain that he opposed the government appointment of chaplains in the armed forces and in Congress. He states “The establishment of the chaplainship to Congress is a palpable violation of equal rights, as well as of Constitutional principles”.

Does that mean minorities rule? When the are majority i suppose  it will mean majority rules. Or are these  just tactics to take down the majority. The constitution explicitly says…”Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion Or prohibiting the free exercise there of. clearly no law was established, but this single judge is now prohibiting the FREE exercise of religion. Do u suggest we get in touch with the ACLU or sue the judge? You know  i think, we would have been all happier had the banner stayed and we were al concentrating more on real work and the economy.

What schools? The Supreme Court has said that every student can pray as long as it is not school led and as long as it’s not disruptive. Any school that violates this has violated the student’s rights and they need to contact a lawyer and/or the ACLU.

But if you are a true atheist, you have no basis against which to measure a moral life. Its all in your mind, a practice in relativity.

What do you use to define moral? If you’re just reprocessed swamp gas, then morality is an illusion. You got here by survival of the fittest; there’s no place for either morality or altruism. Mao lived a moral life, by his standards.The fact that he killed millions is to many others repugnant. But if there’s no standard to which you adhere, how can you search for morality? Why would you bother?

In order to use the concept of morality, you’re using a Christian concept. You can’t do that

Does anyone know if Jay Sekulo(spelling?) is getting involved? and pro bono lawyers? and tehre are other  groups o agencies as well.

Thomas Jefferson did not believe in the divinity of Jesus. Were you aware that he made his own bible in which every verse relating to Jesus’ divinity was removed? This bible is now in the Library of Congress.

Morality existed far before Christianity. Even by Jesus’ own admission.

You don’t need religion for morality. I would argue that the man made religions we are most familiar with seem moral at first, but fail the moral test on further inspection.

No, equal rights for all. The school was giving preferential treatment to Christian beliefs. That is wrong, my friend. Taking the banner down does not affect the faith of any religious student.

Of course Muslims believe in God but you are suporting the denial of their rights to freely exercise their religion. The judge was wrong. This was just an example of bullying by someone with more money.

Tyler, what of, “The display of a religion is NOT the endorsement of a religion,” are you not getting?  Seriously, you have problems, son.  Get over them.

And the government isn’t doing anything here, as it shouldn’t.  Tell me, tyler, how is the school giving preferential treatment to a religion if it merely allows for a prayer to be displayed.  There is NO preferential treatment there.  Now quit being an absolute moron and get over it.

The school is giving preferential treatment to one religion over others. You can’t tell me that is right.

Will the school put up an Islamic prayer?

The school isn’t doing anything here? They put up a prayer banner which clearly establishes the school as a Christian school. James Madison, the author of the First Amendment would definitely have disagreed with a public school doing this. Read his “Detached Memoranda”.

You atheists always amaze me with how much you guys don’t even understand the Jefferson Bible.  Obviously you haven’t even read it.  Not EVERY verse relating to Jesus’s divinity was removed, you know.  Just most of them.  It was simply an abridged version of the Gospels Jefferson used to reach the American Indians.  Heck, it even left some of Jesus’s miracles in, like when he cured a blind man and when he cured a lame man.  Jefferson believed in the Christian concept of God and believed in all of Jesus’s teachings.  this is historical fact that no historical revising you atheists do will change.

Everytime they throw out unchallenged evolutionary brainwashing in school, they tread on freedom of religion. As a teacher, I appreciate the teaching of evolution – it would be hard to make your way in the world of science without a knowledge of the subject.

That said, what is taught in schools is not science but religion. Even leading evolutionists like the late Jay Gould lament the inaccuracy and lopsidedness of evolutionary textbooks. Many contain statements that have been disproven for years, decades and even longer. Gould’s comment was particularly aimed at the concept of recapitulation, which was still being used in texts a century after being proven a fraud. They still teach Oort’s cloud. So many imaginary and false concepts taught, in an attempt to disprove God, or at least remove the need for God, and to brainwash the students without the slightest admission that their theory has more errors and holes than facts.

So when the schools have the right to indoctrinate the students in imaginary fairy tales that point away from God, that by itself is a statement of atheism endorsed by public education.

Teach all the evolution you want, but be honest enough to admit that all the underlying premises are purely assumptions, and the facts are massaged into the current version of the theory. But noone is allowed to present any facts or even present questions that might puncture the balloon and give the slightest inkling that maybe it was God who did it, after all.

Atheistic bias in the schools? nawwww!

Thanks for proving you never once read the Bible.  There are no less than 30 direct references to Hell throughout the Old Testament.  The term comes up when the Bible first talks about Abraham’s bossom, for crying out loud.  I advise you to actually READ the Bible before speaking of things you know NOTHING about.

NO it is NOT.  You are a COMPLETE and UTTER imbecile to think the school is.  The school merely allowed a Christian prayer to be displayed.  NOTHING more.  This is NOT preferential treatment.

Then what would you use as a base line? your morality may be my perversion, and who would argue with that?  Mao thought he was being moral, and murdered a million people. Why would you even bother being moral? it makes no sense.

In what way does Christianity fail the Moral test? and how would you find a morality by which to judge it? Is morality simply your opinion? then its not morality, but opinion that you put on a pedestal.

The Mo slem morality teaches that it is fine to kill almost anyone, lie to as many people as you need to. So just what do you use as a yardstick?

In order to have any morality as an atheist, you have to borrow your yardstick from Christianity. So logically, you’re hooped!

Putting up a prayer banner does NOT establish the school as anything.  It merely means the school ONLY allowed for a prayer banner.  It certainly does NOT establish the school as a Christian one.  Only a fool would say that.

Tyler, you are proving more of your ignorance here.  Happylada, forgive me.  I just wanted to reply under your comment without taking the time to search through Tyler’s posts through DisqUS.

Now, back to the dimwit Tyler.  You are an absolute moron to say that our founding fathers used the Bible to rationalize their slaves.  That is NOTHING but an out and out LIE.  Even God hated slavery.  In fact, our founding fathers, including those who did own slaves, wanted to actually free them.  They knew, however, that that would be unacceptable at that point in history.  Hence, the amendment process they included so changes can be made later.

True, it was called the Mosaic law. Your point? And Jesus stated that he did not come to remove the law, but to fulfill it. 

Other  cultures had a morality as well. The Chaldeans sacrificed their children to Molech by rolling them down a ramp into his mouth and the fire behind it. But that wasn’t the morality of God, nor of the laws he gave to Moses.

What God did give to Moses included the worlds first Public Health manual, preventing many of the plagues that decimated nations around the Isrealites. It contained information that was unknown at the time, but over the centuries we have come to see he wisdom of many of its commands. Commands, by the way, tied to the Nation of Israel. Since it was beyond the science of the day, I think there was something supernatural about its revelation.

But an atheist cannot follow that line of logic . . .

You are mistaken.

No, the school was right in allowing freedom of speech/religion of the nondenominational religion with the banner, and the atheist religion, by putting nothing up. now no one comes out ahead.

Nope, because there is historical and archaeological evidence of Jesus’s existence.  However, there is NO way on this planet to measure even with let’s say 50% accuracy how old this planet is.  EVERY form of radiometric dating has proven, by actual scientists no less, to be completely flawed and not very trustworthy.  It’s absolutely ridiculous that some scientists still actually use it to guess the age of something.  It is bad science is what it is.

LOL.  Give me a break.  You just proved yourself an even bigger idiot there, son.  It also appears you aren’t very well read at all. You stated the first amendment there.  I shall state it again here. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”  This says specifically that there is a freedom OF religion, NOT a freedom from religion.  The Constitution and Amendments were NOT put in place to protect the individual from the majority.  They were put in place to protect each individual’s rights, period.  This is documented historical fact documented by the Constitution itself as well as ALL of our founding fathers.  Try again, son.

No it’s not, dimwit.  If the school merely put it there or merely allowed it to be displayed.  That is NOT really endorsement.  Endorsement only occurs when the school actually pushes it onto you.  This is NOT the case, so it could NOT possibly be endorsing anything.

Nope.  Again.  NO preferential treatment was given.  You are a COMPLETE idiot to say there was.

But for some it does help them to be more moral. Some people just need it some dont, some say thy don’t need it. But again they say there are no atheists in a fox hole, and what if there was? Humans are born with many uncivil ways and children need to be guided, shown good example and taught. We are all a work in progress , hopefully, we need all the help we can get. On the human level, why take down something that made so many feel good and did no harm to anyone. Anyone trying to follow God is not going to be a threat to u. In general you would want the people u do business with to have  morals and be honest. Most people need religion or whatever for that reason, there are a few exceptions, maybe. we are all a product of the fact that we did live in free state. I really dont feel like experimenting with the future and creating a world without a God, whether u believe or not. Then again it doesnt really matter what we believe, reality will be reality.

As a Christian I am offended by the lack of more religious expression. Atheism offends me because the lack of religious displays represents the emptiness of atheism. I want MORE religious displays to offset the numerous atheist displays. The ACLU better back me up on this.

Protect the individual from the powers of the state, Yes.  Protect the individual from the majority, a resounding heck NO.  The protection isn’t from the majority.  The protection is given to each and EVERY individual from the state, NOT from the majority.  There is a distinction there that you apparently don’t understand.

How is that a ridiculous belief?  Now, Darwinian evolution.  That, my friend, is a ridiculous belief.

You sure about that, Tyler.  Have you checked prime time HBO, Showtime, or Cinemax.  Let’s not forget prime time on such channels as Playboy TV or even Hustler’s tv channel, whose name leaves me.  Besides that, much of what is seen on basic cable these days, in particular shows like Desperate Housewives and even reruns of Sex in the City on, I believe, TBS now, can be considered soft core porn, which still happens to be porn.

Indeed, Ryan.  I just found something interest, though, as I make this particular comment.  SOG liked my post for some reason.  Don’t have a clue why, though.  Just found that interesting. Maybe as he reads this, he will unlike the post. LOL

but it was a banner, a work of art, a historical artifact. There was no establishment of religion. i think those that believe in freedom/religion, good things  have been tolerant, maybe too tolerant.

So how taking down a prayer help anybody?  I believe everything in life is a miracle and a precious treasure from God and this chickenhead believes we all one big cosmic accident descended from monkeys.  Silly me.

The display of religion IN A GOVERNMENT BUILDING endorses religion UNLESS it lets ALL religions display banners regarding their faith. The Establishment Clause prevents the government from establishing a religion and prevents government interference in the free exercise of religion (Hannah-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School Vs. EEOC (2012) and http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/01/11/court-oklahoma-ban-on-islamic-law-unconstitutional/) Jefferson and Franklin were Deists believing that religion is a private choice that is best kept out of the government (Render unto Cesar what is Cedar’s?! Hmm?)

From Jefferson in 1802 to Danbury Baptists:

Jefferson’s Letter to the Danbury Baptists
The Final Letter, as Sent
To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

Jefferson says it best here by saying my religion is my business so keep yours out of the public government eye

“our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to our god alone. I enquire after no man’s and trouble none with mine; nor is it given to us in this life to know whether yours or mine, our friend’s or our foe’s, are exactly the right.”
Thomas Jefferson to Miles King, September 26, 1814

Uhm, NO it does NOT.  You are a complete fool for saying it does.  The display of religion in a government building is NOT in ANY way endorsing said religion.  It is merely displaying said religion.  NOTHING more.

Jefferson and Franklin were CHRISTIAN Deists.  Thus, they were still Christians.  Historical fact, son.  Look it up.  Jefferson called for a CHRISTIAN representative of his CHRISTIAN faith at his hometown because his hometown had none.  Franklin called for CHRISTIAN prayers at the start of business at the beginning of each and every single day.  They BOTH believed in the Christian concept of God and in Christ’s teachings.  This makes them Christians.  These are documented facts documented throughout US history.

From Madison’s “Memorial and Remonstrance” of 1785

Because it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entagled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it. Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?

The words, “Heavenly father or God” make no reference to Jesus Christ and therefore it neither endorses nor denounces Christianity. 

Here’s a site for you, Mbagrad, listing the religions of our founding fathers, for those founders whose religion was known, anyway.
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html 
Notice how the vast majority of them, including Madison, Jefferson, and Franklin, belonged to one Christian sect or another.  Madison, Jefferson, and Franklin happened to be Episcopalians.

Again, even this site lists Jefferson and Franklin as CHRISTIAN Deists because they believed in the Christian concept of God and in the teachings of Jesus Christ. This makes them CHRISTIAN Deists. Thus it makes them CHRISTIANS. Just because they are Deists does NOT in ANY way mean they are not Christians. Do you even have a clue what Christian Deism is? Idiots like you always seem to think that just because someone is a Deist means that they are not a Christian. This couldn’t be further from the truth, though.

First off, I am too well educated to be your son and the term “Christian Deist” is an oxymoron much like yourself well at least the moron part. A Deist is defined by Merriam-Webster as “Read American Sphinx by Joseph Ellis who documents Jefferson as a DEIST and that Jefferson was no fan of Christianity. In Steven Waldon’s “Founding Faith” he notes how Jefferson was often referred to as a “pious infidel” in chapter 8. You may want to get your college tuition refunded because you can’t back up any of your “hysterical” claims with any reputable historians as I just did. Read a book while you are under that puritanical rock. Waldman also discusses how Jefferson did not believe in the Divinity of Jesus by citing on page 90 that when he created the Jeffersonian Bible , Jefferson INTENTIONALLY omitted the virgin birth,the resurrection, miracle of feeding the 5000,walking on water, and raising Lazarus. As a Christian I have also been taught if I deny Jesus as the Son of God on Earth He will deny me before God in Heaven. Jefferson DENIED JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD ERGO HE WAS NO CHRISTIAN

LOL.  Give me a break.  It appears you are NOT well educated at all.  Christian Deism is NO oxymoron.  Christian Deism is Deism influenced by Christian beliefs, plain and simple. No oxymoron. That’s just what it is. Apparently, you haven’t actually done your research on Christian Deists.  Jefferson was documented as a CHRISTIAN Deist who believed in the CHRISTIAN concept of God and in Jesus Christ’s teachings.  Thus he is still a Christian.  I’ve backed up my claims with a very reputable source that listed the religions of nearly all of our founding fathers, including that of Jefferson.  The one who has failed to back himself up here is YOU.  You are actually quite laughable.  It is a historically documented FACT that Jefferson was a Christian.  And please,  You again cite the misrepresentation given to the Jefferson Bible that atheists give to it.  Give me a break.  How about you actually read it for once rather than just cite what atheists have stated about it.  It left most, but NOT all, of his miracles out.  It kept a miracle of Jesus healing a blind man in.  It kept a miracle of Jesus healing a lame man in.  The Jefferson Bible was merely an abridged version of the Gospels Jefferson used to reach the American Indians.  Jefferson was a CHRISTIAN Deist.  Thus Jefferson was a Christian.  Documented historical fact, son.  Look it up.  If you are well educated, than I must be Jesus Christ.  Give me a break.  Obviously, you are NOT well educated.  You were just indoctrinated like all the rest of your kind.  You might want to quit believing what atheists have stated and start believing what just about EVERY historical fact shows, son.

You obviously do not know much about Constitutional law or Constitutional history or you would realize that when the rights of the minority are snuffed out by the will of the majority then EVERY American ‘s individual rights ARE NOT protected.  Sheesh! Amateurs.

Here it is said very well about why protecting the rights of the minority is so important

“If it be admitted that a man possessing absolute power may misuse that power
by wronging his adversaries, why should not a majority be liable to the same
reproach? Men do not change their characters by uniting with one another; nor
does their patience in the presence of obstacles increase with their strength.
For my own part, I cannot believe it; the power to do everything, which I
should refuse to one of my equals, I will never grant to any number of them.”
Alexis de Tocqueville, “Tyranny of the Majority,” Chapter XV, Book 1, Democracy in America

Yes, you’ve just proven yourself to be the amateur here.  It is you who obviously doesn’t know much about Constitutional law or Constitutional history.  The protections granted to us in the Constitution grant rights to EVERY SINGLE individual to protect them from the state, NOT the majority.  This is a fact, plain and simple.

One-Man Army posted a web site put together by amateur wanna-be biased historians and what he forgot to mention about Jefferson’s Episcopalian-ism is that he was RAISED in the Episcopalian (Church of England)

From the web site :http://www.adherents.com/people/pj/Thomas_Jefferson.html

Jefferson was raised as an Episcopalian (Anglican). He was also
influenced by English Deists and has often been identified by historians
as a Deist. He held many beliefs in common with Unitarians of the time
period, and sometimes wrote that he thought the whole country would
become Unitarian. He wrote that the teachings of Jesus contain the
“outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen
from the lips of man.” Wrote: “I am of a sect by myself, as far as I
know.” Source: “Jefferson’s Religious Beliefs”, by Rebecca Bowman,
Monticello Research Department, August 1997 [URL:
http://www.monticello.org/resources/interests/religion.html.

Although Jefferson was never an atheist, he was indeed a champion of
religious freedom, and the “Positive Atheism” website has a page of
quotes by Jefferson at:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/jefframe.htm

This web site list primary source documents that detail that the violation of the rights of the minority equals tyranny of the majority and this was said

Minority Rights I: Individual Rights vs. Majority Tyranny

Democracy therefore requires minority rights equally as it does
majority rule. Indeed, as democracy is conceived today, the minority’s
rights must be protected no matter how singular or alienated that
minority is from the majority society; otherwise, the majority’s rights
lose their meaning. In the United States, basic individual liberties are
protected through the Bill of Rights, which were drafted by James
Madison and adopted in the form of the first 10 amendments to the
Constitution. These enumerate the rights that may not be violated by the
government, safeguarding—in theory, at least—the rights of any minority
against majority tyranny. Today, these rights are considered the
essential element of any liberal democracy.

Give me a break.  A French political thinker.  You think that has any relevance at all to our own Constitution.  News flash.  He was born AFTER our Constitution was ratified.  He has NO relevance to it.  Try another tactic, please.  His opinions have NO credence to our Constitution.

Again, still a fallacious argument.  The violation of the rights of the minority does NOT equate to tyranny of the majority.  There is NO protection from the majority granted in the Constitution.  There is, however, protection granted to each and EVERY individual from the state. There is a major distinction there.  Look, believe what you want.  I will believe the truth and what the actual FACTs show, and the facts simply do NOT support you.  Good bye.

One man Army, I have cited reputable historians and primary source documents to back me up what proof of your claims have you offered? NONE The true sign of an ignorant fool who follows the babbling of others because he is to weak to think for himself. Jefferson was RAISED Episcopal but later embraced Deism denying the divinity of Jesus nit his miracles. Old Testament prophets and New Testament saints perform miracles but they are not God in three persons

You run away because unlike me you offer no proof to back up YOUR fallacies ROFLMAO I at least made you read for once to go dig up those outdated righting bigoted religiously intolerant falsehoods. Lol NIGHT!

Actually, your documents have NOT actually been primary source documents, but that is neither here nor their.  I offered a site listing the religions of most of our founding fathers, which proves he was a Christian.  It seems you like to follow the babbling of others, though, especially that of atheists because you are too weak to look at actual facts.  Jefferson embraced CHRISTIAN Deism.  That is a documented historical FACT attested to by history and Jefferson himself.  Jefferson was born a Christian.  Jefferson died a Christian.  Plain and simple.  No historical revision you do will change that fact.

Merriam-Webter’s dictionary defines deism as a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century DENYING THE INTERFERENCE OF THE CREATOR WITH THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE.”(emphasis added lol). Nothing Christian about that religion lol

LOL.  Give me a break.  I offered up proof backing me up.  You apparently decide not to read it.  Come back to me when you’ve actually read Jefferson’s Bible, please.  You’ve done NOTHING but state what atheists claim about Jefferson and his Bible.  News flash.  Those are outright LIES.  They are NOTHING but lies.  Jefferson was born a Christian.  Jefferson died a Christian.  Documented historical fact.  Look it up.

Actually, if the Deist believed in the Christian concept of God, which Jefferson DID, and the teachings of Jesus, which Jefferson also DID, that makes them a CHRISTIAN Deist.  This still makes them a Christian.  You clearly have NO understanding of the concept of Christian Deism.  You might actually want to look into it some time.  You might actually learn something beyond what atheists are telling you.  I’m not talking about mere Deism here.  I’m talking about CHRISTIAN Deism.  There is a big freakin’ difference.  Look into it, already.  Christian Deism is not quite the same as mere Deism, you know.  You clearly proved here what little you actually know.  lol

By amateur wanna-be biased historians?  Who are you trying to fool here?  That website was put together using the actual DOCUMENTED religions of our founding fathers, and they make that fact quite clear.  Also, to fill you in a little, Unitarians are a CHRISTIAN sect, and Jefferson was a CHRISTIAN Deist.  He was no mere Deist.  He was a Christian Deist.  This is a documented historical FACT, for crying out loud.  You are a complete fool for trying to debate it.

The site you listed is an amateur’s attempt at being an historian and it author even states Jefferson was a Deist after leaving the Anglican church. My sources have been either direct quotes from Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance 1785) Jefferson’s Letter to the Danbury Baptist, the First Amendment, De Tocqueville’s Democracy in America, Noted historia ns such as Steven Waldmon, Joseph Ellis, Pauline Maier, Linda R. Monk. What have you proffered for “sources” ? Some two bit amateur high school quality right wing web site full of biased pro Christian advertising because nobody of an reputable quality would support it. TRUE historical scholarship eliminates as much bias as possible as have the aforementioned historians I quoted. You probably have only heard of them tonight lol I challenge you to read every book I cited to at least see an unbiased point of view. We live in a SECULAR nation full of Christians not the other way around. If you are wise as you claim to be read those books because true wisdom comes from seeing both sides. As a Christian I don’t want religion of any kind in the public arena because if you let one you must let all and if we do that we will end up with a theocracy and not one most Christians would embrace.

I figure that  you probably have no idea what their mission statement is so I thought I would give Christian charity and help you learn more about their mission.

http://www.aclu.org/about-aclu-0

For anyone still doubting Jefferson’s Christianity, here is a letter he wrote to Dr. Banjamin Rush in 1803 where he says flat out that he is a Christian.  Here it is in it’s entirety.

In Jefferson’s own words in black and white, he states that his beliefs are different from that which the anti-Christian system put on him, and he also states flat out that he IS a Christian.  He stated it in his own words, for crying out loud.  What more is needed than that?Washington, April 21, 1803.    DEAR SIR,In some of the delightful conversations with you in the evenings of 1798-99, and which served as an anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you that one day or other I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and VERY DIFFERENT FROM THAT ANTI-CHRISTIAN SYSTEM IMPUTED TO ME BY THOSE WHO KNOW NOTHING OF MY OPINIONS.  (Emphasis added) To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I AM A CHRISTIAN, IN THE ONLY SENSE IN WHICH HE WISHED ANYONE TO BE: SINCERELY ATTACHED TO HIS DOCTRINES IN PREFERENCE TO ALL OTHERS, ASCRIBING TO HIMSELF EVERY HUMAN EXCELLENCE, AND BELIEVING HE NEVER CLAIMED ANY OTHER.  (Emphasis added) At the short interval since these conversations, when I could justifiably abstract my mind from public affairs, the subject has been under my contemplation. But the more I considered it, the more it expanded beyond the measure of either my time or information. In the moment of my late departure from Monticello, I received from Dr. Priestley his little treatise of “Socrates and Jesus Compared.” This being a section of the general view I had taken of the field, it became a subject of reflection while on the road and unoccupied otherwise. The result was, to arrange in my mind a syllabus or outline of such an estimate of the comparative merits of Christianity as I wished to see executed by someone of more leisure and information for the task than myself. This I now send you as the only discharge of my promise I can probably ever execute. And in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make every word from me a text for new misrepresentations and calumnies. I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public, because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that inquisition over the rights of conscience which the laws have so justly proscribed. It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. It behooves him, too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independent opinion, by answering questions of faith which the laws have left between God and himself. Accept my affectionate salutations.Th: Jefferson    

I see the moderator does not like me actually calling these lemings out on their baseless accusations.

Education will set you free.  Stop drinking the Kool Aid of the right and think for yourself!

Uhm, no.  The site is NOT an amateur’s attempt, at all.  That is a bogus attack on your part.  The site merely lists the documented religions of the founding fathers whose religions are known.  It doesn’t just state Jefferson was a Deist.  It states that Jefferson was a CHRISTIAN Deist.  Seriously, what of that are you not getting?  I’m not deny he was a Deist here.  However, it is a documented FACT that he was a CHRISTIAN Deist, which is not quite the same as mere Deism.  Seriously, what is your problem?

What you are stating here is NOT unbiased in the slightest.  What you are stating here are biased in favor of atheism.  What I have provided are actually the unbiased DOCUMENTED facts that PROVE Jefferson was a Christian.  Clearly, you are biased here against Christianity, which means you likely are NOT the Christian you claim to be.

Do some research before chastising

read these:
http://www.aclufightsforchrist...
http://www.aclu.org/aclu-defen...

Don’t you mean YOUR baseless accusation.  So far, you have ONLY shown what kind of a dimwit you are.  Please, you even gave the opinion of a French thinker who was born more than 20 years after the ratification of the Constitution to give credence to your imbecilic remarks on the Constitution.  News flash.  He was from France and was born more than 2 decades later.  His beliefs have NO relevance to OUR US Constitution.

Jefferson specifically cited the need for a “wall of separation between church and state” in his “Letter to the Danbury Baptists” in 1802 look it up on the LOC site at http://www.loc.gov

You’re right, for once.  Education will set you free.  Now go get one and quit drinking the Kool Aid of left wing atheists.

When one individual’s rights are being threatened they become the minority and EVERY American is GUARANTEED the rights in the first ten Amendments of the Constitution.  If a majority of Muslims wanted to say prayers in school but not allow Christian prayers YOU would be the minority whose rights are being infringed upon by the majority in this hypothetical.  The atheist here is not different.  I could care less what she believes.  But displaying any form of religion in a government building is letting the camel get his nose under the tent and before you know it, the whole camel is in your lap with the tent falling down around you.

For anyone curious on the Christianity of Christian Deism, particularly you mbagrad, here is a site dedicated to it.
http://christiandeism.com/ 
It defines Christian Deism as this.  ”Christian Deism is a natural religion that maintains a firm belief in God the Creator; and strives to follow the natural commandments of God, as taught by one of the greatest teachers of natural religion, Jesus of Nazareth.”
This is what Jefferson believed.  And this is what makes him a Christian.

I have an actual graduate education in business, Educational administration AND American history. what do YOU have? A high school diploma and a plumbers license? You have not backed up one thing you have said with a reputable source.  I have.  Your turn.  Prove your thesis.

You obviously know nothing about him nor have you read his works to understand his prolific influence in the growth of our nation and our respect for the Constitution lol

I HAVE backed up what I said with a reputable source, think you very much.  I used a direct letter written DIRECTLY from Jefferson himself where he states flat out that he was a Christian.  I offered up a link listing the religion of nearly ALL of our founding fathers, including Jefferson’s.  That, too, is a reputable source.  The ONLY sources you provide are those from atheists trying to prove their own side, for crying out loud.  Those are NOT reputable sources at all.  Sorry, but an atheist attacking Christianity is NOT a reputable source.  Try again.

He was born more than 20 freakin’ years after the Constitution was ratified.  His influence simply is nonexistent.  Give me a break.  Seeing as you supposedly have a graduate education, you ought to do better than that.  LOL

Anyway, believe what you will.  I am done with you.  Your lies won’t get through here.  Keep believing in the lies of atheists.  It won’t get you far.

I applaud you for FINALLY finding a relevant source to back you up.  I am surprised you made through all of the big words lol.

In this same letter he says :

SINCERELY ATTACHED TO HIS DOCTRINES IN PREFERENCE TO ALL OTHERS,
ASCRIBING TO HIMSELF EVERY HUMAN EXCELLENCE, AND BELIEVING HE NEVER
CLAIMED ANY OTHER.

He accentuates the humanity of Jesus and NOT his divinity.  In my opinion and based on what i know of the teachings of the Gospel does not make him a true Christian but the larger fish to fry here is that he took so long to say these words because he believed religion to be a very private issue not discussed in public or within the halls of any government enterprise.  So, here again you have been school in your ignorance cherry picking what your want to see rather than understanding the deeper meaning of his letter.  He believed in the philosophy of Jesus but not the divinity of Jesus and opposed the corruptions and intolerance of Christianity in thinking it to be the only “right” religion.

This last excerpt explains his reasons for his Letter to the Danbury Baptists in 1802 (one year prior to this letter) defining the need for a wall of separation between church and state so that the twain shall never mix as they did in Europe and Puritanical New England.

DENYING THE INTERFERENCE OF THE CREATOR WITH THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE.”

Deism in itself as the foundation that Jefferson examined Christianity believed that God did not interfere in the lives of humans.  The New Testament preaches otherwise.  Christianity recognizes the Trinity, Deism, Christian or otherwise only recognizes one God no Jesus as the Son of God.

HERE GENIUS!  UNLIKE YOU I ACTUALLY KNOW THE TEACHING OF CHRISTIAN DEISM AND IT IS EXACTLY AS I SAID IT WAS:

FROM : http://christiandeism.com/beliefs/

Beliefs

Here you will find the basic beliefs of Christian Deism. The Archives contains essays that provide a more thorough explanation and we encourage you to explore them.
 
1. There is only one God, Creator of the Universe and the natural laws that govern it.
2. Every human being is a Child of God, and infused with the spirit of God.  When we do God’s will we become closer to God.
3. Jesus taught that it is God’s will for you to “love your neighbor
(including enemies) as yourself,” (Matthew 22:39; 5:43-44) which means
that “whatever you wish that people would do to you, do so to them.”
(Matthew 7:12).
4. God’s will is taught to everyone by God (John 6:45) in the design
of human nature, and is learned through human experience and reasoning. 
We worship (honor) God by doing God’s will.
5. Failures to love others, by causing human suffering or by being
indifferent to human suffering, are offenses (sins) against God, and are
destructive to your soul.
6. If you repent of your sins and you forgive others who sin against
you, God forgives your sins (Matthew 6:14-15), and restores your soul.
7. If you try to live by love for others, and sincerely repent of
your failures to love, you will enjoy satisfaction with yourself in this
life, and you have reason to hope that God will give you another life.

NO MENTION OF JESUS AS GOD OR AS THE SAVIOR OF SINS.  ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SINS ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN BELIEFS HMMMMM

DENYING THE INTERFERENCE OF THE CREATOR WITH THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE.”

Deism in itself as the foundation that Jefferson examined Christianity believed that God did not interfere in the lives of humans.  The New Testament preaches otherwise.  Christianity recognizes the Trinity, Deism, Christian or otherwise only recognizes one God no Jesus as the Son of God.

HERE GENIUS!  UNLIKE YOU I ACTUALLY KNOW THE TEACHING OF CHRISTIAN DEISM AND IT IS EXACTLY AS I SAID IT WAS:

FROM : http://christiandeism.com/beliefs/

Beliefs

Here you will find the basic beliefs of Christian Deism. The Archives contains essays that provide a more thorough explanation and we encourage you to explore them.
 
1. There is only one God, Creator of the Universe and the natural laws that govern it.
2. Every human being is a Child of God, and infused with the spirit of God.  When we do God’s will we become closer to God.
3. Jesus taught that it is God’s will for you to “love your neighbor
(including enemies) as yourself,” (Matthew 22:39; 5:43-44) which means
that “whatever you wish that people would do to you, do so to them.”
(Matthew 7:12).
4. God’s will is taught to everyone by God (John 6:45) in the design
of human nature, and is learned through human experience and reasoning. 
We worship (honor) God by doing God’s will.
5. Failures to love others, by causing human suffering or by being
indifferent to human suffering, are offenses (sins) against God, and are
destructive to your soul.
6. If you repent of your sins and you forgive others who sin against
you, God forgives your sins (Matthew 6:14-15), and restores your soul.
7. If you try to live by love for others, and sincerely repent of
your failures to love, you will enjoy satisfaction with yourself in this
life, and you have reason to hope that God will give you another life.

NO MENTION OF JESUS AS GOD OR AS THE SAVIOR OF SINS.  ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SINS ACCORDING TO THEIR OWN BELIEFS HMMMMM

ALL of the sources I’ve used have been relevant, son.  So far, the ONLY thing I see coming from you is attacking my relevant sources.

Also, I have NOT been schooled here.  I am NOT cherry picking anything.  Jefferson stated flat out that he is a Christian.  It is you who is not understanding the deeper meaning of the letter.  You are simply looking at what atheists have to say and would rather believe them than what the actual facts prove beyond any and all doubt.  Take your supposed education and return it.  It is clear you don’t have the wherewithal to actually use it.  Jefferson believed in the teachings of Jesus Christ and believed in the Christian concept of God.  Thus, he was a Christian.  The actual documented FACTs prove this.  You also clearly don’t even have a clue what Jefferson meant by that wall of separation between church and state.  You are only parroting what atheists have stated.

Good bye.  As I said, your lies won’t work here.

It doesn’t have to mention Jesus as God to be Christian Deism.  Who said anything about that?  They believe in the teachings of Jesus.  This is what makes them Christian Deists.  Seriously, what is your problem?  Apparently, it’s a concept that’s simply over your head. You should really study up on Christian Deism there, son, because Christian Deism, again, is NOT mere Deism. It is influenced heavily by Christian beliefs. Wake up, please.

ONE-MAN-ARMY HOW IS THIS FOR “Christian Deism” and their “belief” in Jesus from their own web site:

“The Deists rejected the church doctrine that belief in Jesus  death
provides “salvation” from sin because most human beings have never heard
of Jesus during the history of the world. Deists believe that God would
not treat people so unequally and unfairly. With its claim to holding
the “keys to heaven and hell,” the church exerted a tremendous influence
after Christianity became an institutional religion officially
recognized by the Roman empire in the 4th century.”

http://christiandeism.com/history/

Guess you missed that class in historical research in high school eh?  BAM!

Hey genius I knew about that site LONG ago but read on a little further to see how ignorant you are and how you are cherry picking to grasp at straws as your argument loses more and more credibility

Christian Deism REJECTS Christ’s death on the cross as atonement for our sins and that is BLASPHEMY and will not earn you a spot in Heaven.  “If you deny me before men I will deny you before my Father in Heaven”

One-Man you are limping on this argument.  Read the actual words from their own site and then read where they REJECT the death and resurrection of Christ.  TRUE Christianity revolves around the Virgin Birth , Crucifixion for our sins and the Resurrection for our salvation.  Christian Deism is CHristianity in name only and more is closer to  New Age Judaism than Christianity.  Which of my sources cited are Atheists?  If they are how can you prove it?  YOU CAN’T BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ATHEISTS!

Nope.  Didn’t miss that class.  Though you apparently did because that does NOT change the point I’ve been making.  On the contrary, what you stated there is actually beside the point, so I don’t know what you’re trying to do with it.  It applies to neither your nor my statements.

The ONLY one cherry picking here is you.  Your argument falls flat and loses ALL credibility based on the actual beliefs of Christian Deists.

One-Man, your version of relevant are what ever you can find in your google browser.  Mine are those of scholarly men and women who have studied the founders and the Constitution for many years.  You can not disprove ANY of my quotes while I can knock holes the size of pluto in yours simply out of the voluminous (that means many in case you needed your dictionary) amounts of primary source documents written by the Founders who while a mix of Christian, Deists and other less known religions are by no means Atheist.  Just because they believe in the teachings of Jesus does not make them Christian.  Muslims believe in the teachings of Jesus as written in the Quiran, does that make THEM Christian?  NO.  Take your dime store high school education and go to bed to go to your grass cutting job.

You are missing the point.  Read my most recent statement.  Based on your line of reasoning Muslims and Buddhists and Krishna are Christians as they all believed in the teachings of Jesus.

Nope.  I’m not limping here.  NOTHING you stated changes the fact that Jefferson called himself a Christian flat out and that Christian Deists still are actually considered Christians because they believe in many of the same concepts as Christians.

Considering your sources, one came from an atheist website, for crying out loud.  Positive atheism.  LOL.  Who’s grasping at straws here?

Look.  Just keep believing what atheists have indoctrinated into you.  There is obviously no hope in getting the truth through to you.

Historical FACT: Jefferson declared himself a Christian
FACT: Christian Deists can still be considered Christians based on their own beliefs in Christianity.

For one final time, and I mean it this time, good bye.  Keep believing in lies from the left there all you want.

So far, you haven’t punched a single hole in ANYTHING I’ve said.  ALL you’ve done is attacked them.  NOTHING more.  I’ve given you relevant sources, and the best you can do is attack them.  Give me a break.  Than you give me a pro atheist website to prove your own point.  Again, give me a break.  The one with the dime store education here is you, son.

READ THEIR BELIEFS!!!!  Are you that pig headed or maybe you have a reading comprehension problem.  They believe in the TEACHINGS of Jesus but that does not make them Christian.

The Deists rejected the church doctrine that belief in Jesus  death
provides “salvation” from sin because most human beings have never heard
of Jesus during the history of the world. Deists believe that God would
not treat people so unequally and unfairly. With its claim to holding
the “keys to heaven and hell,” the church exerted a tremendous influence
after Christianity became an institutional religion officially
recognized by the Roman empire in the 4th century.

Thomas Paine (1737-1809), a deist, emigrated from England to America in
1774, and became famous for his writings which inspired Americans to
seek independence from England. Paine was active in the American
Revolutionary War, and his writings were credited by George Washington
for rallying financial and moral support for the American army when it
appeared that America was losing the war for independence. Paine wrote
his deistic book The Age of Reason, in 1794, opposing both traditional
Christianity and atheism. Paine would not call himself a “Christian”
because the only “Christianity” he knew was trinitarian Christianity.

Pro-Atheist?  Where?  The Christian Deists own site? how is that pro-atheist? lol

ummmmm GENIUS the postivie atheism link came from YOUR “relevant source” at adherent.com ROFLM!!!! 

You still have not proven which of MY sources are atheist!  YOUR source listed the atheist link LOL

Look, I’m done with you.  Just because they reject one Christian belief doesn’t change the fact that they hold many more Christian beliefs as sacred.  They consider themselves Christians.  Thus they are Christian.  It is a concept that is apparently over your head.  The rejection of one belief is NOT the rejection of every other belief.

I’m done with you.  You are clearly too thickheaded to look at the actual facts here.  Good bye and good riddance.

You never answered my question.  Are Muslims Christians?  According to your limited mind they would be.  Both Diests and Muslims believe in the teachings of Jesus.

I have enjoyed a laugh so hilarious my sides are hurting at your ignorance and your selfish pride to admit that you are outclassed.  You hurl accusations and alleged “historical fact” without valid relevent proof by any of the prominance historians of our time.  You probably think Glenn Beck and David Barton are reputable historians lol

David Barton IS a reputable historian.  Enjoy the laugh.  It doesn’t change the fact that YOU are wrong here.  Also, the adherents link I provided did NOT have an atheist link.  So you are definitely a proven liar there.  I checked the entire page.  There was NO positive atheism link in sight, so that is obviously YOUR link.  I allege historical facts that have been proven time and time again by actual relevant historians such as David Barton and others, as well as the actual writing of our founding fathers.  ONLY thing you’ve done here is attack my own sources while providing some irrelevant ones of your own.  Good job there.  Have a laugh.  You’re only laughing at yourself, son.  lol

Good bye.  Have fun living in lies from the left.  Probably should not have gotten started with you, anyway.  You are an obvious troll.

David Barton wrote in his book “Mystical Separation” that only Christians were meant to hold elected office in America and that Jews and others were not.  He associates with pastors of questionable associations.  THIS is where Beck is getting his information???  From a ZEALOT racist who promotes the 3/5 rule as having been good for slaves?!!!  Really???  WOW!!!

He has a degree in religious education and teaches history from a Christian slant.  History is not to be taught from one religious viewpoint.  He has no formal historical raining and is an anti-semite stating in his own books that only Christians are to run America not Jews, Mormons, Deists etc.  How is THAT a reputable historian?  A historian is a person academically trained in a specific area of history.  He is not.  He is a right wing zealot who perverts history to fit is far right wing ideological agenda which makes him no better than other groups of religious extremists around the world who are seeing to spread their religion across the world.

Here is your link and the page where the link came from
http://www.adherents.com/people/pj/Thomas_Jefferson.html

Here are the first two paragraphs from your link:

President Thomas Jefferson was a Protestant. Jefferson was raised as an
Episcopalian (Anglican). He was also influenced by English Deists and
has often been identified by historians as a Deist. He held many beliefs
in common with Unitarians of the time period, and sometimes wrote that
he thought the whole country would become Unitarian. He wrote that the
teachings of Jesus contain the “outlines of a system of the most sublime
morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man.” Wrote: “I am of a
sect by myself, as far as I know.” Source: “Jefferson’s Religious
Beliefs”, by Rebecca Bowman, Monticello Research Department, August 1997
[URL: http://www.monticello.org/resources/interests/religion.html.

Although Jefferson was never an atheist, he was indeed a champion of
religious freedom, and the “Positive Atheism” website has a page of
quotes by Jefferson at:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/jefframe.htm

Note that Thomas Jefferson, one of the nation’s most popular and respected presidents, is claimed by many groups.

I will do to you now what should be done to all irrelevant morons such as yourself since you have now shown for the world flat out who you REALLY are, a liberal idiot.  So here is what idiots like you who love to revise history deserve.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously, the David Barton personal attack is now what you have.  I know I said I wouldn’t respond to you again, but I just had to laugh at you for another very pathetic attempt at disregarding the truth. Okay, now for real, good bye.

When I clicked on the link next to Jefferson’s name that said “Episcopalian Deist” it took me to the next page that included atheist websites as sources LOL Guess you really do have a reading problem ROFLMAO!!!!!

That’s not my link.  That’s a branch off of my link.  There’s a difference.  Good bye, now.

You know I am right and you are crying because I attacked your preacher history teacher LOL LOL LOL.  You would not know revisionist history if it bit you on the behind.  That is just a word your are taught to sling around as a synonym for “liberal” lol.  David Barton is considered a revisionist historian as well hmmmmm  GOTCHA!!!  THIS IS SO MUCH FUN!!  YOU have YET to prove which one of my sources was an atheist and ignored the Muslims as Christian question because you know YOU ARE WRONG LOL  Muslims believe in Jesus but not as the Savior and Deists believe in Jesus in the same ways Muslims do making neither Christian other than by name only.  LOL

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/julieingersoll/3078/glenn_beck%E2%80%99s_history_%E2%80%9Cprofessor%E2%80%9D_david_barton_on_racism_and_the_three-fifths_rule

No difference.  You are splitting hairs.  You posted it as a relevant source.  A TRUE student of history and research would have throughly checked his or her sources to prevent having the very egg on their face that you have now for being too lazy to check your facts unlike myself.  All you can do is cry “Mommy Mommy he is throwing atheists at me!!” but mommy  says “Honey but there are no atheists anywhere around you!”  LOL

Actually I am a registered Republican LOL MITT IN 2012!!!!!!  LOL

You can;t reject the central tenet of Christianity and still call your self a Christian !!  That is akin to making chocolate chip cookies with NO CHOCOLATE CHIPS and still calling them CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES when all their are now is SUGAR COOKIES ROFL  Your frustration at your inability to make a viable case that I can not disprove amuses me but I must now go to sleep so I can go mold young minds at my local community college where YOUR tax dollars are paying my salary!!!!!!!!!!! Nighty Night!

“All,too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights , which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression .” THOMAS JEFFERSON

In his own words to protect the minority. Hmmmm? Not an atheist source lol

“Quetion with BOLDNESS even the existence of a God , because IF there I one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of BLINDFOLDED faith”

Thomas Jefferon

Close, but no cigar, Snowleopard:  The pendulum has swong to the trend that everyone must be offended by everything.  Hatred rules; common sense does not.

Unfortunately, it is not legal to spank adults, no matter how much they deserve it.

Ryan, I don’t know about you, but it seems that every nut and crackpot on the left log onto this web site to make stupid comments (note the number of ‘nuts’ who use Glenn Beck’s name as part of their identity).

Do you think they actually believe that they will convince us with hate-filled rants that their stance is worth even a modicum of consideration?

I’m neither appalled nor worried about them.  They amuse me, but if they should get serious, so can I, and I know you can be just as serious.

In the meantime, let’s not let our feathers get ruffled.  Together, conservatives present a much more serious problem for them and their handlers.

Whomever taught her such hatred, is who we should be looking at.   It should be a real lesson to those that feel they can put off deciding about their faith.  

Yes we do Glenn we as Christians have the right to pray to God. I am so tired of people being offended by my beliefs.  It is  Merry Christmas [a little late just an example]  not happy holidays. If it offends anyone get over  it & Move on as the late  Andy Rooney said.

you are right I never heard them defend those right either. I send them [ACLU] a Christmas card evry year. I stamp the envelope with my stamper [for all mail]  “IN GOD WE TRUST” then I stamp the card with the Blessed Mother & Child stamp & send it to them.

your wrong

Try to have at least an ounce of intellectual honesty. You most certainly do have the right to pray and to personally display your faith. However, the publicly funded institution has no constitutional right whatsoever to endorse religion. There is an extremely good reason that the founders separated church and state.

Except when they are fighting for things you happen to agree with, right? I assure you they do fight for peoples right to be religious when it is constitutional. This example is in no way constitutional. I know it is hard for right wing religious fundies to understand the reason for the separation of church and state but it is there for a good reason. Our founders believed in reason. They embraced an evidenced based view of reality and knew first hand how the endorsement of religion and the mixing of government and religion (theocracy) was dangerous and led to tyrannical theocracy. This is why the separation of church and state is enshrined in the constitution.

“Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.”
-Thomas Jefferson

Actually it is one hundred percent true. If it is unconstitutional the ACLU fights against it. Of course the right only focuses on the cases where there beliefs are under attack. I am sorry but a prayer banner in a publicly funded institution is clearly unconstitutional. I know plenty of religious people who are able to realize this but fundies and their solipsism are always unable to grasp this fact.

No they will not because the banner is unconstitutional. Are you able to grasp why it is unconstitutional? It is for a very good reason and it is one of the most brilliant and reasoned amendments to our constitution.

It was a publicly funded institution endorsing religion! Which is unconstitutional. The founders were very clear about this. If it was in a private school than no problem. There is a reason why schools should not endorse religion of any sort. It is an extremely good reason but I am sure subjective, cognitive dissonance inflicted, fundamentalist individuals are hopeless to grasp this reason.

This is one of my favorites.

ACLU of
Virginia Defends Christian Students’ Right to Protest Against ACLU at Public
School

Stop listening to right wing propaganda and misinformed nonsense.

In the Old Testament, Hell is not punishment for not believing, like it is in the New Testament.

Evolution has nothing to do with atheism. Many Christians now accept evolution. Even Pope John Paul II said that evolution is now an acceptable theory. You don’t understand that atheism is just the lack of belief in god. That’s it. Nothing beyond that.

They are endorsing the Christian religion by allowing a Christian prayer to be displayed. It is indeed preferential treatment, and has no place in a public school. What is the benefit of having the prayer banner up anyway?

I don’t have to borrow any moral yardstick from Christianity. Every society on Earth has figured out that murder, stealing, etc. is morally wrong. You don’t need religion for that.

Are you referring to the Ten Commandments? Don’t you think it is insulting to Moses’ followers to suggest that they made it to Mt. Sinai without being told that murder, stealing, and lying are wrong?

I’ve never hurt anyone in my life.

What archaeological evidence is there of Jesus?

I don’t think you understand the definition of endorse. I assume you follow politics. When John Huntsman recently dropped out of the presidential race and endorsed Mitt Romney, was he forcing everyone to vote for Romney? No.

Do some research, my friend.

So the atheist claims it is her school and she is the only one with rights?

they do it all the time. it same like the real nut job come out when ever Israel or atheism is mention. their must be some web site telling them were to be a pain.

maybe he was drunk.

they hate us for what we believe in and their hate blinds them to the truth. they even make up stories about Hitler that said he was christian if he was then why was he in the ocult. before you atheistards attack me saying that is a lie this show was done by the history channel and says the same damn thing i just said. http://youtu.be/A663fska0U4 you would think that the history channel can get history right because it is their job. no christian in their right mind would even think of worshiping other god so their for Hitler was not a Christian take that losers.

In school we are forced to listen to what atheists want, what makes it more interested the first time a student argues against the belief of evolution, we are condemned. The First Amendment seems to only apply to the atheist. 

Not so fast there jim bob….
The ONLY position government is Constitutionally allowed to have on religion is that they are to make no law PROHIBITING IT or making laws that establish a particular doctrine as THE official doctrine. This wasn’t to protect atheists and Muslims and Jews…as the leftists so often love to claim. It was to protect Christianity from interference by government. IF, as you claim, it was to protect government and the faithless, then why oh why did the put God in the founding documents, in all their speeches, engraved in almost every government building and even set up a chaplain for the US Congress???
Well, the answer is as I said, Christian faith (in one form or another) was the bedrock and hallmark and central to those that founded her. besides, this kowtowing to every minority that comes along is insane. The majority should always have the final say in how it’s society is run. anything else leads to chaos and strife. And no nation divided can stand…as we are seeing now that we have bowed to every freakish, depraved, and reprobate behavior imaginable.

Nonsense. Stop inventing facts there Durden. The ACLU is renowned for taking cases against prayer in schools far, far  FAR more than defending it…unless you are a Muslim, that is.

It would serve you better if you would keep us guessing that you’re a fool than for you to start typing and prove it!

Crap, I didn’t know that. I guess I’d better stop. Gee, just when it was getting fun. LOL

Many Christians also believe in evolution. Atheism is just the lack of belief in god. That’s it. It has nothing to do with evolution.

Christian students have the right to pray in school. The school does not have the right to endorse religion with a prayer banner.

Just last year, even Fox covered a story where the ACLU successfully defended a Christian students right to have religious symbols decorating his locker. Sorry, but you have a misunderstanding of the difference between individual rights and government promoted religion.

The ACLU of Texas (2011) opposed a public high school’s policy prohibiting students from wearing visible rosaries and crosses in the Brownsville Independent School District.

The ACLU of Colorado (2010) supported the rights of students in Colorado Springs School District 11 to wear crosses, rosaries, and other religious symbols. A middle school had announced a policy forbidding students from wearing certain Christian symbols unless they were worn underneath their clothing.

The ACLU of Maryland (2009) successfully settled a lawsuit on behalf of a Christian ministry for the homeless in the town of Elkton, Maryland, which had purchased a site for a religious day center to help the local community through job training, food, showers, and religious services. Though the site is legally zoned for the use of churches and centers that provide those services, the zoning board had refused to recognize the religious nature of the center, placing unreasonable limitations on the ministry. The ACLU of Maryland reached a favorable settlement with the town, affirming the church’s right to operate its day center for the homeless.

The ACLU of Florida (2009) filed a lawsuit on behalf of two families from the Dove World Outreach Center, defending their constitutional right to express themselves in public school with t-shirts stating, “Islam is of the devil.” The suit claims that the school has been inconsistent in enforcing restrictions on free speech.

The ACLU of Michigan (2009) filed a friend-of-the-court brief on behalf of the First Baptist Church of Ferndale after local residents cited a zoning ordinance to prevent the church from providing social services to the poor and homeless on church property. The ACLU argued that zoning boards may not burden the free exercise of religion simply because neighbors object. The Oakland County Circuit Court denied the request of the residents, allowing the church to continue providing services.

The ACLU and the ACLU of Virginia (2009) argued against the censorship of religious materials being sent to detainees in the Rappahannock Regional Jail. The ACLU wrote a letter to the superintendent of the jail, asking that the jail stop removing Christian-themed materials and biblical passages from letters written to detainees. As a result of ACLU involvement, the prison agreed to change its policies and allow religious mail.

The ACLU of Louisiana (2009) argued for the right of Christian preachers to distribute pamphlets at the Breaux Bridge Crawfish Festival. The ACLU wrote a letter to the mayor in support of the preachers, who had been ordered to stop handing out religious material.

The ACLU of Delaware (2009) represented the Episcopal Diocese of Delaware in a threatened eviction action against a congregation that was meeting in an elementary school on Sunday mornings. Because the school district permitted a wide variety of other groups to use its facilities, the ACLU wrote to the school district explaining that, as a general rule, public buildings must be made available to religious groups on the same terms that they are made available to the general public. In January 2009, the parties reached an amicable resolution permitting the church to continue using the facilities.

The ACLU of Michigan (2008) filed a successful lawsuit on behalf of a Benton Harbor minister who was sentenced to 3 to 10 years in prison for writing an article both criticizing the judge and predicting what God might do to the judge who presided over his case – actions protected by the constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and religious expression.

The ACLU of Southern California (2008) filed suit on behalf of members of a faith-based charity organization after park rangers threatened to arrest the members for serving hot meals and distributing Bibles to the homeless on Doheny State Beach.

The ACLU of Louisiana(2008) filed a brief in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit supporting an individual’s right to quote Bible verses on public streets in Zachary, Louisiana.

The ACLU of Florida (2007) argued in favor of the right of Christians to protest against a gay pride event held in the City of St. Petersburg. The city had proposed limiting opposition speech, including speech motivated by religious beliefs, to restricted “free speech zones.” After receiving the ACLU’s letter, the city revised its proposed ordinance.

The ACLU of Pennsylvania (2007) came to the defense of a second-grade student who, in response to a class assignment to write a story, submitted a story about Easter and redemption. After the teacher rejected the submission because of its religious content, the ACLU wrote a letter to the school on the student’s behalf. The principal and teacher subsequently apologized, and the principal agreed to instruct his teachers on the law.

The ACLU of New Jersey(2007) defended the right of an elementary school student who was prohibited from singing “Awesome God” in a voluntary after-school talent show for which students selected their own material. The ACLU submitted a friend-of-the-court brief. After a favorable settlement was reached for the student, the federal lawsuit was dismissed.

The ACLU and the ACLU of Pennsylvania (2007) prevailed in their case on behalf of an Egyptian Coptic Christian who had been detained and who claimed he had been tortured by the Egyptian government because he refused to convert to Islam. After permitting Sameh Khouzam to stay in the United States for nine years based on evidence that he would probably be tortured if he returned to Egypt, the U.S. government changed its position in 2007 and sought to deport Mr. Khouzam based on diplomatic assurances from the Egyptian government that Mr. Khouzam would not be tortured upon return. As a result of the ACLU’s advocacy, a federal court granted Mr. Khouzam an indefinite stay of deportation to Egypt.

The ACLU of Colorado (2007) came to the defense of a Seventh-Day Adventist who was being refused a religious diet in prison. After the ACLU communicated with prison authorities on the prisoner’s behalf, the diet was provided.

The ACLU of Georgia (2007) filed a federal lawsuit to help obtain a zoning permit for a house of worship on behalf of the Tabernacle Community Baptist Church after the city of East Point denied the request. The city has since repealed the ordinance and churches are now allowed to occupy buildings that were previously used for commercial purposes.

The ACLU of Nevada (2006) defended the free-exercise and free-speech rights of evangelical Christians to preach on the sidewalks of Las Vegas. When the county government refused to change its unconstitutional policy, the ACLU filed suit in federal court.

The Iowa Civil Liberties Union (2005) defended the rights of two teenage girls who were threatened with punishment by school officials after seeking to wear, for religious reasons, anti-abortion t-shirts to school.

The Iowa Civil Liberties Union (2005) defended the rights of two teenage girls who were threatened with punishment by school officials after seeking to wear, for religious reasons, anti-abortion t-shirts to school.

The ACLU of Michigan (2004) represented Abby Moler, a student at Sterling Stevenson High School, whose yearbook entry, a Bible verse, was deleted because of its religious content. A settlement was reached under which the school placed a sticker with Moler’s original entry in the yearbooks and agreed not to censor students’ yearbook entries based on their religious or political viewpoints in the future.

The Iowa Civil Liberties Union (2002) filed a friend-of-the court brief supporting a group of Christian students who sued Davenport Schools asserting their right to distribute religious literature during non-instructional time.

Sure Glenn, you have rights.  You have rights to your personal believes, but not to impose them on other people.  That’s called pious arrogance.  And you call yourself mostly Libertarian.  Personal liberty means not imposing on others.

Where in the Constitution does it say that freedom of religion only applies to Christians?

Also, don’t forget that our Christian founders used the bible to defend their use of slaves. Frederick Douglass wrote in his autobiography that the most devout Christians made the most savage slaveholders.

It’s quite disturbing that someone who says they consider themselves a libertarian would think that it’s okay for public schools to endorse religion. Especially when he considers the government inept in everything they do. Why would he want government anywhere near his faith?

Happy Holidays does refer to Christmas and New Year’s. Besides, how can a store clerk know what religion you are by looking at you?

Atheism is a desperate cry for help. Have you ever found a quiet or tolerant self proclaimed atheist? They are similar the goth or emo kids who are always crying out for attention. And the answer is the same for both, without God in their lives they are left with a huge hollow space that is crying out to be filled. They are just wanting answers and they want to control what answers they receive, as they possess a preconceived bias and hatred that overwhelms them, due to a prior event or circumstance. And then others think they are smarter than everyone else and want to “prove” something to show that “they” are in control, even though they are not. When in reality they too, whether they are aware or not, realize deep inside the pieces they have conceived as evidence never seem to “fit” into place. They are always left with that nagging hole that just won’t fill. That is what pushes all of them to be constantly on the offense, because deep down they are always searching. We should treat atheists as people who are lost and need our love and prayers. They are truly hurting deep inside and we as Christians are the only answer to their pain. Be a friend, be a guide, be that one person who is always there for them no matter what. Don’t judge them by their actions as they don’t know what they do. They like us are just sinners, but they are lost looking for the path home. Let’s work together to bring them back home and love them.
Thank you.

Atheism is a desperate cry for help. Have you ever found a quiet or tolerant self proclaimed atheist? They are similar the goth or emo kids who are always crying out for attention. And the answer is the same for both, without God in their lives they are left with a huge hollow space that is crying out to be filled. They are just wanting answers and they want to control what answers they receive, as they possess a preconceived bias and hatred that overwhelms them, due to a prior event or circumstance. And then others think they are smarter than everyone else and want to “prove” something to show that “they” are in control, even though they are not. When in reality they too, whether they are aware or not, realize deep inside the pieces they have conceived as evidence never seem to “fit” into place. They are always left with that nagging hole that just won’t fill. That is what pushes all of them to be constantly on the offense, because deep down they are always searching. We should treat atheists as people who are lost and need our love and prayers. They are truly hurting deep inside and we as Christians are the only answer to their pain. Be a friend, be a guide, be that one person who is always there for them no matter what. Don’t judge them by their actions as they don’t know what they do. They like us are just sinners, but they are lost looking for the path home. Let’s work together to bring them back home and love them.
Thank you.

If,She goes to a PUBLIC SChool,and I assume she does,that is how they get away with it. HOWEVER, If she is going to a Private School,She has no case and the Judge is WRONG. I want more facts.

It’s a public school. No judge can take down a prayer banner in a private school.

I am an atheist and I have no hollow space that needs to be filled. I also respect your right to believe whatever you want. Public schools have no right to endorse any religion.

There is a book everyone should read; “The Myth of Separation” by David Barton.  Have you found and read this one yet Glenn?

Public Schools teach science because it seeks to prove and disprove theories of evolution based on physical experiments, not religion.  Church and Sunday School are for religious beliefs, and out of respect for people of all beliefs, it must be excluded from public education, except, perhaps, to understand beliefs of religion various religions.

Just how did the ACLU get so much power as to dictate for the minority and the majority has no stand at all. I’m offended that that student go go about and process she is upset because she does not believe in a Heavenly Father, but we have to listen to her babble and see their signs everywhere. You know the old saying what is fair for the goose is also fair for the gander. How many atheists attend that school or did the ACLU bother to find out. I believe if more people became involved, we could fight the ACLU more effectively and also the judges rulings.

Do you think Carl Sagen, Morgan Freeman, Bill Gates, Stephen Hawking, etc. are desperate?  They’re atheists.

So, you think Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and atheists should be forced to pray to Christ in a public school?  That sounds a little fascist to me.

If ACLU fights for all religious rights, and Christians cannot display signs, clothing and such, then why and how is I believe Colorado or Oklahoma Muslims fighting to teach classes showing tolerance for Islam and all Muslims? This case came up a couple of months ago, but have heard nothing about it since.

It doesn’t, Tyler, however you won’t hear of the ACLU pulling down a Mulsim or Buddhist (or whatever other religion you want to insert here) over a Christian being offended, and that is part of the problem.  Also, it does say that the government can not make any law prohibiting the free practice of religion and, in the tenth amendment, that any “powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”  This means that in religious affairs, which the federal government has no real jurisdiction in, decisions are left to the States and to the PEOPLE.  The argument that the ACLU and the left make are that religious displays in schools and other places where State governments are practiced is not Constitutional, which is not true.  If that State says its ok to have religious posters in the classroom, then the federal government really shouldn’t be able to do crap about it. Where the ACLU really concerns me is their ability to find liberal judges who have no problem forming law from the bench, which is unconstitutional.  Bills and laws are supposed to be formed in the house and ratified in the senate, not determined by one man sitting on a bench.  
   One last note, plz no one else in this thread say that the phrase “seperation of church and state” is found in the constitution, as you are showing your ignorance.  It is not found anywhere in any of the founding documents but in a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to a baptist church in Connecticut.  Also, that phrase came at the end of a whole paragraph, explaining why certain verbage was used in the Constitution.

Then prove it.  Prove how it is unconstitutional in a state funded school for a religious banner to be displayed if the State government says its ok.  The 1st Amendment and the 10th Amendment work in tandem to make that ok.  And please, for the love of my sanity, don’t say “seperation of church and state”, as it is NOT in the constitution or ANY of the founding documents.

What public school has hung a banner containing suras from the Koran?

Also, James Madison, who wrote the First Amendment uses the separation term in his “Detached Memoranda”.

Actually, the sitting President Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to his constituents in Danbury, Mass regarding a current political issue they were having. Unlike the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, the Danbury letter was not written to explain any portion of the Constitution, and was in fact not even vaguely considered in that context for more than 75 years – long after the actual context of the letter was forgotten. The original draft text uncovered by the FBI is in the second link.
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danbury.html
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpost.html

“The unedited draft of the Danbury Baptist letter makes it clear why
Jefferson drafted it: He wanted his political partisans to know that he
opposed proclaiming fasts and thanksgivings, not because he was
irreligious, but because he refused to continue a British practice that
was an offense to republicanism. To emphasize his resolve in this
matter, Jefferson inserted two phrases with a clenched-teeth, defiant
ring: “wall of eternal separation between church and state” and “the
duties of my station, which are merely temporal.” These last words —
“merely temporal” — revealed Jefferson’s preoccupation with British
practice. Temporal, a strong word meaning secular, was a British
appellation for the lay members of the House of Lords, the Lords
Temporal, as opposed to the ecclesiastical members, the Lords
Spiritual. “Eternal separation” and “merely temporal” — here was
language as plain as Jefferson could make it to assure the Republican
faithful that their “religious rights shall never be infringed by any
act of mine.” ”

RE: the rest of the Founders. If they truly believed religion could not be admitted in
any form, then why did they declare days of feast and thanksgiving, which were religious holidays, for the US government? Why did they start meetings with prayers? Why were so many – including Jefferson and even Thomas Paine – so highly offended when they were called atheists?

Did you know that Jefferson allowed church services in the Executive Office Buildings during his term of office? Communion and everything. I think some services lasted as long as four hours!

Actually, the sitting President Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to his
constituents in Danbury, Mass regarding a current political issue they
were having. Unlike the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, the
Danbury letter was not written to explain any portion of the
Constitution, and was in fact not even vaguely considered in that
context for more than 75 years – long after the actual context of the
letter was forgotten. The original draft text uncovered by the FBI is in
the second link.
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danbury.html
http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpost.html

“The unedited draft of the Danbury Baptist letter makes it clear why
Jefferson drafted it: He wanted his political partisans to know that he
opposed proclaiming fasts and thanksgivings, not because he was
irreligious, but because he refused to continue a British practice that
was an offense to republicanism. To emphasize his resolve in this
matter, Jefferson inserted two phrases with a clenched-teeth, defiant
ring: “wall of eternal separation between church and state” and “the
duties of my station, which are merely temporal.” These last words —
“merely temporal” — revealed Jefferson’s preoccupation with British
practice. Temporal, a strong word meaning secular, was a British
appellation for the lay members of the House of Lords, the Lords
Temporal, as opposed to the ecclesiastical members, the Lords
Spiritual. “Eternal separation” and “merely temporal” — here was
language as plain as Jefferson could make it to assure the Republican
faithful that their “religious rights shall never be infringed by any
act of mine.” ”

RE: the rest of the Founders. If they truly believed religion could not be admitted in
any
form, then why did they declare days of feast and thanksgiving, which
were religious holidays, for the US government? Why did they start
meetings with prayers? Why were so many – including Jefferson and even
Thomas Paine – so highly offended when they were called atheists?

James Madison, the author of the First Amendment felt that Congress and the Military should not have chaplains.

You can pray to God ’till the cows come home, as far as I’m concerned.  Just don’t tell me about it ’cause I don’t wanna hear.  Also, keep you signs to yourself.

Only they could answer that. We don’t know their hearts and desires. I would have to guess that they do feel something missing or feel incomplete. I’ve known many atheists, it is always a common denominator. You should talk to some ex-atheists they have many interesting testimonies. Don’t always assume someone is happy and at at peace, especially not by their success or wealth. I’m not trying to offend anyone, I’m just wanting people to become aware that they are not alone. Christians are not a threat, nor are they the enemy. Real Christians are here as a friend and as someone you can trust. Unfortunately some Christians react and do not portray themselves in a God-like manner. Realize though we all are sinners and we all have to strive to be better people, and care about our friends as well as others who may see different then us.

More whining gibberish from people that have such a weak faith that they cannot bear to hear beliefs that don’t match there own.  Oh well.

Reality check for the ACLU supporters.  They support constitutional rights when it furthers THEIR agenda!  They NEVER help people exercise their 2nd Amendment rights or defend them against abuses to it!  They ONLY support religious people in a token fashion to support their OWN agenda.  They are ANTI_American and ANTI-traditional values.  Doubt me?  Please read The ACLU VS America http://www.amazon.com/ACLU-vs-America-Exposing-Redefine/dp/0805440453/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326827689&sr=8-1  Sick and tired of this lying socialist group being held up as a champion of constitutional rights!  http://www.kjv-truth-ministries.org God save us from the people whp are trying to cleanse the country from God.

No I don’t think anyone should be praying in a public school unless it is on their own time and private place. You totally misunderstood my reply. I agree the sign should come down if it is a public school, and at the same time if I was attending there, I would be offended by the student spouting off about being an atheist just as much as she was offended by the sign. Sign will be taken down and she needs to keep her mouth shut about her being an Atheist unless it is in her private space and not preaching to others on public grounds.

Students are free to speak to each other about their religious beliefs. What kind of totalitarian government controlled school do you wish for?

Can I be offended by the Atheist’s lack of prayer?

Agreed; their hate is all they have because they have forsaken faith.

Yes. Nobody says you can’t.

You’ll be offended by whatever offends you, but it doesn’t mean you can make someone pray.

Glenn,  Do you think a sign reading “Allahu Akbar” would be appropriate in a public school?  Why not?  It just means God is great.  You think God is great, don’t you?  According to you, if that’s what the person who puts a sign like that up thinks, they should have the right to put it up, right?  

Typical Beck logic.

I am still scratching my head how one persons “feelings” are more important than others. Are we dropping the ball here people? The squeeky wheel gets the oil. It’s befuddling to me that no one, said to her “what about the people that do?”  simple question…ASK IT PEOPLE!!

I find the Atheist offensive. Simply because she “doesn’t believe” in the “Heavenly Father” and removing the prayer amounts to an endorsement of Atheism from the school.

Since Atheist speak is offensive. Can they be made mute?

No, it amounts to the school staying neutral on the subject.

Students can speak freely about their religious beliefs until one of the listeners doesn’t want to hear it. I do not believe in a totalitarian government controlled school. School is where you send your children to learn not a place where you have to be afraid to open your mouth or express an opinion because it won’t be P.C. End of subject

“Then it got put into law by the Supreme Court”…

By the Supreme Court you say? You mean the branch of our government that was set up to rule on the Constitutionality of issues that arise? The branch that was given that authority by the very document that was written by the Founding Fathers? Very interesting.

Imagine that! How ridiculous it is that they could have scripted such a “living document” that could be reviewed, evaluated and amended as time passed and the world changed. What on earth were they thinking? We should probably repeal EVERYTHING that has been added since the ratification of the Constitution immediately!!! Heck yeah, no more income tax, no prohibition, no women’s sufferage… What a great country we would be.

Since both parties are founded on beliefs and personal experience, it would be hypocritical and inequal to deny one belief system over that of another belief system. You can not tell Christians that they must comply to the limitations of religious expression to protect those who don’t follow the Christian faith and then refuse to mandate those who don’t believe in a God to respect those that most surely do.

No matter how much wrapping paper one wraps around it, a belief is still a belief. And it is wrong to atack the Christian beliefs but not the Atheist beliefs. LIBERALS!! YUCK!!

almost every culture has had slaves. (not making it right)

The constutution says they just can’t make a law, there was no law made. the school called it a historical artifact, left by students of a graduating class. Maybe they studied the constitution at the time. Judges can be wrong. One person, Jessica said she was hurt and it kind of disturbed her. Now many are hurt and kind of disturbed. A counter lawsuit would include this and also unconstitutional since they free exercise of religion, or just a representation of religion was unjustly denied. Just a couple of elite people with money bullied a school system without much money. The deep pocketed ACLU even demanded money from financially distressed Cranston West HS, Cranston, RI. Sounds heartless to me. I dont think the banner should come down, but even if it is left up without the “unexceptional” words its still more positive than anything the ACLU accomplished. Are we going to sensor the art of Monet next, if someone doesnt like it? What happens if the next day they change their minds about liking it?

I’m don’t think the article stated that the students were part of the school administration, did it? If a few students wish to lock hands in prayer, then what is to the ACLU, or the athetist. There is a spiritual warfare against religion now, and that includes all religions. This students should not be prohibited from praying, no matter how much it offends the atheist. Sorry jim bob, but if the schools subscribed to a moral enviornment there may not be school shootings, teachers attacked, sexual slinging, and horrible language. But, that wouldn’t fit the purpose of those who wish to raise a tyrannical society, would it?

It was a banner put up by fellow students. No mention of Jesus Christ. It was not even thought of as a prayer. Still nothing was accomplished but more negativity and censorship of only some was accomplished. Everyone should be concerned.

Slavery was legal in the Bible. But, one was to treat that person as a member of their own family, and they had a list of rights. If one was destitute, then one could “sell” themselves to a family for their board for seven years. But, at the end of that seven years, they were released from the agreement. I suppose it was better than being homeless. As a matter of fact, slavery has only been outlawed in some middleeastern countries as late as the 1980′s. It would have been stupid for anyone to be savage to a person that was extended family. I suppose there are people in the world who think it’s ok to treat someone in a savage manner even if they aren’t slaves. I don’t defend anyone being mistreated, EVER. But, if the constitution had truly followed the Bible then there would have been a much better lifestyle for those concerned.

No preferential treatment was given until it came down.

I don’t read articles I don’t like or about subjects I don’t like, for instance I can’t open most papers without seeing a horoscope in it I don’t belief in a horoscope so if I contact the papers they are going to remove them for me,  I bet you apples to donuts they won’t so I’ve learned to pass them by and not pay attention to them, but I guess atheists  have to read everything even when they know it is a prayer they have to read it over and over to make sure the words don’t change or so, and to  make sure they can object to it, and claim it is in their face or so.   and that way they can cause  grieve to others.

Again,
glenn beck suffers from a lack of intelligence and education…
It is perfectly legal for students of any religion to pray or meet on any public school grounds before or after school hours.
No public school can allow these actions during the school day.  The United States Supreme Court has her numerous cases revolving around this sort of case and both “liberal” and “conservative” justices have sited that promoting or allowing any specific religion’s displays unconstitutional.
Quick update glenn beck…not everyone is a fake Christian like you.  Atheists do not remove religious displays.  Public School Administrators who are following the laws and Constitution of the United States.
Before glenn or any other religious persons feel the need to show their ignorance, look for facts first!!!

For today, and every day you post here, I will post your lies on every comment you make on this site….

Why don’t you just go away you liar and Phony Soldier. Everyone would understand that move on your part. Your hate and ignorance is not winning any converts here. You’re the butt of jokes and ridicule.

Please see a professional about your fixation on little children strtlk/mtclayboy.

You’re a lying sack of crap. You denied serving on a submarine, and knowing what SSBN was. I posted your words verbatim.

You’re a Wikipedia sailor and a lying puke.

Here’s your “one on one” you little puke of a man.

1. As mtclayboy you claimed that you served on a BOOMER. As strtlk you claimed not to know what a Boomer or a SSBN was “I don’t care” were your exact words. You also stated that you didn’t know where Bangor, Wa. was which is where Boomers (submarines) are fitted for duty.
Any real Submariner would know that. You didn’t!

2. You then changed your story and claimed that you were on a BOOMER. You lied.

3. As mtclayboy you claimed that you had damaged your ears while serving on a Submarine. As strtlk, you claimed that you damaged your ears while serving on a submarine.

4. As mtclayboy you claimed that you joined the Navy and served for five years on a submarine but according to the timeline you gave that was proven to be a lie. You lied.

5. As mtclayboy you said that you were a Fireman. As strtlk, you claimed you were a Fireman.

6. As mtclayboy and as strtlk, you posted the same bigotry and hate against Glenn Beck almost word for word even using the same spelling and grammatical errors and focusing on the children. I’ve posted many of them here already.

Are you catching on everyone? He’s a liar plain and simple and nothing he claims can be believed.

Folks, I have the posts of these two Phonies and have posted just a couple to prove he is a liar and just makes up stories about his Military Service. His latest story is right out of Wikipedia. His classified VMS crap is also right out of Wikipedia and US NAVY.mil. I’m a member there.

He wants to take me on “one on one” when he’s already proven in his own words that he’s a liar and a fake.

Flag the idiot so he can come back as another loser like his other fake ID “Vinny” where hes a 10 year Army Sargent on another classified secret mission that he can’t talk about.

There you go loser, “one on one” only I backed up my posts with facts and your own words as proof. Why don’t you have the balls to admit to your lies, tuck your head up your A$$, take your bigotry and hate and Phony Soldier ID and leave us honest people alone?

Once again, Here you are caught in your lies. These are your words verbatim:

strtlk said: on Hollywood elites want to be taxed more 09/24/11 07:51 PM

“1. No idea where Bangor, WA is. I thought Bangor was in Maine!
2. What the heck is a “Boomer” or SSBN? You know what…I don’t care!
3. Reminding people that glenn was a dead beat dad is a factual statement about him, not his innocent children. Nice try though slime ball.
3. Either talk about something relevant and stop this, you are jason bourne crap!”

Caught in your lies strtlk.

Thanks for proving me correct.

Folks, strtlk/mtclayboy has been caught in his lies, He’s a lying sack of crap.

As you are totally wrong, on most issues…take your own advice, phony soldier,grow a brain, research the facts.

You use this site to further your one sided narcissistic rants. How much do they pay you for your unsolicited opinions? I contend it’s equal to what it’s worth- ZERO.

Heck no!  Just because i don’t agree with you, just because I may think your interetation may be wrong doesn’t mean I can’t appreciate your stand on an issue.　That would be very shallow.  I’m much more open minded than that.

I didn’t feel it necessary to “like” both of the double posts though.

Now, Good Bye. LOL　
　

You’re an idiot.

Because it’s not in English. You are required to speak English to become a citizen. We are, at heart, an English-language nation. Yes, there are many people who speak Spanish – but that isn’t necessarily their choice. Many school districts route kids whose families speak Spanish into bilingual education OVER THEIR PARENTS WISHES, denying them the chance to become fluent in English as kids.

So, write God is Great in English, then knock yourself out hanging it up in schools.

Your reply makes so little sense, I hesitate to respond.  First, 
“Allahu Akbar”  is Arabic.  Second, students in public schools are there to learn art, math and science, not to hang religious signs stating ”God id Great” in any language.

That is ONE man.

The Northwest Ordinance governing how territories became states was passed shortly before this and was kept by the new Congress. It included the following statement in the third article:

“Religion, morality and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.”

The Founders cannot have been ignorant of this law or its contents, but they chose to leave it stand, unaltered. If it had been a violation of any portion of the Constitution, it would not have. Therefore, the Founders believed that religion was necessary for good government and were not trying to remove it entirely. They were clearly trying to ensure equal access for all religions, but that is a different matter from removing religion.

I know it’s Arabic. That’s kind of my point – we aren’t an Arabic nation. Any signs, whatever their content, should be in English.

The original poster seemed to be stating it was ok to many to put up a Christian sign, but not one for another religion. My point is that he’s saying it should be ok to put up a sign in another language, one that most don’t understand, which is a different subject than religious tolerance.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF!  OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF!! OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF!!!  When will some idiot unthump his head long enough to read ALL the words in the Bill Of Rights? That means all religions, philosophies, theologies or beliefs are welcome in this country. Instead of letting the whiners fluff up their little nests and get their fifteen minutes of fame, we should stand on our back hoofies and yell ENUFF!!  The Christmas mangers have as much right in this country as any Muslim, Jewish, LDS, Hindu, Buddist  or Hare Christna display AND THEY ALL DESERVE TO BE DISPLAYED. Get it through your heads, America. Stop the slime from destroying what we’re about!

And as far as the little girl’s protest, her parents need to be congratulated on destroying their daughter’s right to freely choose how she believes while respecting the rights of others to believe as they feel. Maybe there is a God and maybe there isn’t. Nobody knows until after they croak, and then either the believers or the athiests are in for a big surprise.

John Burleson  

I’m not sure what “strtlk” represents, but I’ll bet the first letter stands for “stupid.” I’m wondering if there’s a synonym for “mommie’s basement” in there–or maybe you can’t spell, either. Must be the constant bubble sound from all those Bloomers you drove around the ocean blew!!

John Burleson

I have no idea why I’ve been afforded the opportunity to comment on my own post.

Dammit.

you are a drunk.

You are definitely the most stupid individual I have ever run across. You must be some kind of drug addict (hopefully RECOVERING). You exist in some kind of chemically induced La-La land. Whether that is a substance abuse-induced psychosis or just some chemical-genetic imbalance in your brain, you need professional help. What a sorry excuse for a human being. Get a real life moron.

you are a bigot.

Well, you were replying to me, idiot. And I can’t tell you those things AGAIN, because I never said them to you THE FIRST TIME!!! Get your prescriptions filled and don’t forget to take your medication on schedule. You are delusional.

you are a bigot and a moron. tell me again how we christians start wars or tell me about the one where we suck the souls of babies. go away bigot i was not even talking to you.

Good comeback, you hypoctite. Go spout your bigotry somewhere else… Oh I forgot, you don’t know the meaning of those words. What a pathetic lap dog you are.

you are a bigot and a moron. tell me again how we christians start wars or tell me about the one where we suck the souls of babies. go away bigot i was not even talking to you.

Mr. Jim Bob, you should read the Declaration of
Independence. You will read things like natural law, inalienable rights, and
endowed by the Creator. At some point you have to be honest and realize what
Jefferson is referring too. 

Atheists always use separation of church and state
as proof for their cause, suggesting that believers do not understand what it
is. In fact, it is you that don’t get it! I won’t argue that point with you
because the proof for me is all throughout our constitution, Bill of Rights, the
Declaration of Independent and writings from our forefathers. The only thing
open for debate, as our Forefathers intended it to be, was what kind of creator the individual believed in. This was cleverly left generic so that the “Jim Bobs” of the world
could choose whom or what ever they want or non-if that be your choice. Thus giving us the understanding that it is “self evident” that human existence was not given us from a government but rather a creator or two big rocks if that’s your thing.

Believe what you want Jim Bob and I’ll believe what I want. I won’t
ask you to worship my God and you don’t tell be I can’t worship my God. If
Atheists do not believe in anything then why do they let everything trouble them? 

We didn’t have the Constitution yet. We were still under the Articles of Confederation, which failed.

I’d rather be homeless than a slave. The fact that the god of the bible condoned slavery is further proof that it was written and conceived by man, not a divine source. I don’t care how “well” a slave is treated. Holding someone against their will and making them work for no pay is always wrong.

Your argument is invalid. Just as the student took a showing of religious expression as offensive, it is just as valid for a religious person to see a complete lack of religious expression – more importantly, a repression of religious expression – as offensive.

Our right is to religious freedom, not a freedom from religion. You may or may not agree with my religious beliefs. Frankly, I don’t care. However, you will not impede my ability to express my religious beliefs wherein it does not impede your ability to use your own freedoms.

The repression of religious expression is in direct contradiction to The Constitution.

No, actually it amounts to the school siding with atheism as a belief system over the religion represented in the banner. The Constitution guarantees the right to free religious expression so long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others.

For today, and every day you post here, I will post your lies on every comment you make on this site….

Why don’t you just go away you liar and Phony Soldier. Everyone would understand that move on your part. Your hate and ignorance is not winning any converts here. You’re the butt of jokes and ridicule.

Please see a professional about your fixation on little children strtlk/mtclayboy.

You’re a lying sack of crap. You denied serving on a submarine, and knowing what SSBN was. I posted your words verbatim.

You’re a Wikipedia sailor and a lying puke.

Here’s your “one on one” you little puke of a man.

1. As mtclayboy you claimed that you served on a BOOMER. As strtlk you claimed not to know what a Boomer or a SSBN was “I don’t care” were your exact words. You also stated that you didn’t know where Bangor, Wa. was which is where Boomers (submarines) are fitted for duty.
Any real Submariner would know that. You didn’t!

2. You then changed your story and claimed that you were on a BOOMER. You lied.

3. As mtclayboy you claimed that you had damaged your ears while serving on a Submarine. As strtlk, you claimed that you damaged your ears while serving on a submarine.

4. As mtclayboy you claimed that you joined the Navy and served for five years on a submarine but according to the timeline you gave that was proven to be a lie. You lied.

5. As mtclayboy you said that you were a Fireman. As strtlk, you claimed you were a Fireman.

6. As mtclayboy and as strtlk, you posted the same bigotry and hate against Glenn Beck almost word for word even using the same spelling and grammatical errors and focusing on the children. I’ve posted many of them here already.

Are you catching on everyone? He’s a liar plain and simple and nothing he claims can be believed.

Folks, I have the posts of these two Phonies and have posted just a couple to prove he is a liar and just makes up stories about his Military Service. His latest story is right out of Wikipedia. His classified VMS crap is also right out of Wikipedia and US NAVY.mil. I’m a member there.

He wants to take me on “one on one” when he’s already proven in his own words that he’s a liar and a fake.

Flag the idiot so he can come back as another loser like his other fake ID “Vinny” where hes a 10 year Army Sargent on another classified secret mission that he can’t talk about.

There you go loser, “one on one” only I backed up my posts with facts and your own words as proof. Why don’t you have the balls to admit to your lies, tuck your head up your A$$, take your bigotry and hate and Phony Soldier ID and leave us honest people alone?

Once again, Here you are caught in your lies. These are your words verbatim:

strtlk said: on Hollywood elites want to be taxed more 09/24/11 07:51 PM

“1. No idea where Bangor, WA is. I thought Bangor was in Maine!
2. What the heck is a “Boomer” or SSBN? You know what…I don’t care!
3. Reminding people that glenn was a dead beat dad is a factual statement about him, not his innocent children. Nice try though slime ball.
3. Either talk about something relevant and stop this, you are jason bourne crap!”

Caught in your lies strtlk.

Thanks for proving me correct.

Folks, strtlk/mtclayboy has been caught in his lies, He’s a lying sack of crap.

i found some else more bigoted than you so good bye moron have fun believing that Christians want to eat children and start wars. you are bigot yes you are because the dictionary told me so. you might be a racist to.

Ha! Like you could understand a dictionary. Good riddance, young bigoted hypocrite.

screw you to ahole.

How “Christian” of you, Ryan. Your true colors shown now for all to see. Hypocrite.

well you push a man to far you are going to get punched in the face. atleast i can see that i am a hypocrite so that would make you a blind bigot hypocrite. you just love pushing christian over the cliff don’t you and know you show me why you attack christians. thinks for showing me the type of prick that you are and exposed you. good luck living in your own little world where everyone a bigot but the bigest bigot which is you go away fly.

No religious banner does not mean that the school is pro-atheism or anti-religious. It’s the textbook definition of neutrality.

Once again I say:

I have never attacked Christians, on this forum or anywhere else. I may have stated some things you don’t agree with. Welcome to reality. State your opposing views in an intelligent manner and then move on, or don’t bother responding.

You started this whole thing LONG ago, I have asked you to stop numerous times. You refuse to do that. As YOU insisted on verbally attacking me, I have responded.

For over five months now, every comment that I have made on this site you have insisted on replying to, making false accusations, repeating the same nonsense over and over again.

I asked you many times to just drop it and stop responding to my posts since you never have anything logical to add to the discussions.

I have explained myself and the course of events to many of your “friends” here when they have assumed I was picking on you.

I have wished you well and asked you to just drop it on numerous occasions, but you have refused to do so.

I don’t know what you are trying to prove, unless it is to make yourself appear to be a hate filled, foolish young man. You are succeeding.

I have as much right to post on this site as anyone else. I have a right to express my opinions, beliefs and discuss the topics whether you like my comments or not. If you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation stay out of it, please.

Now really… GOOD BYE RYAN. Have a good life.

moron you did over and over again i can pull it out of your own profile you lying sack of crap.

so you think this is not an attack on christians liar
on Cops throw out ‘Occupy’ protesters from Beck signing: “You don’t speak for us” last month

Ahh, yes it is. A free world for everyone but me it seems. Maybe things would be different if I were a Far Right Leaning Religious Fundamentalist War Monger with a Bible in one hand and a rocket launcher in the other, but I wouldn’t wear that well, wouldn’t suit me I’m afraid. I’ll just remain a simple Libertarian Constitutionalist. Yup, That’s what I’ll do. It seems like the way to go.
your own words how about this lovely attack of yours bigot.

There is no heaven. It’s all in the mind of the “believer”.
If there were it would have to be segregated, and would have to have numerous “gods” to satisfy all religions… Oh! I’m sorry, you meant “christian” heaven, perhaps.

Oh, and before any one jumps on this, yes I was “Saved” by the Lundstoms when I was young. Their ministry took down my address, and soon started contacting me for money. I was 10 years old.

And for the record, I know who Jesus was as well.
also from you bigot post from no where you attack these people for their faith. keep talking out of your ass liar.

No. A complete lack of religious expression is the very definition of pro-atheist bias. A neutral position would allow for religious expression, as well as an abstinence from it. This is a clear black and white issue and your position on it is flatly wrong.

Neutrality in public schools protects all faiths and beliefs from being forced to believe in anything contrary to their beliefs.

EXACTLY LANDREE!!!

We are not an English nation either so your logic makes no sense.

Religion belongs in churches,synagogues,mosques,etc NOT in public schools supported by a pluralist society comprised of many religions.

Well, a federal judge agrees with me. Your opinion does not change the facts that this was a violation of separation of church and state.

“…shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ” this part keeps religion out of government and the part you refer to keeps the government out of religion. Christianity thinks it is ok to keep the government out of their church but see no problem forcing their religion upon PUBLIC schools. Smells of hypocrisy too me.

All taken out of context of the discussion that they were posted in so it proves nothing.

Those were responses I made to various posts. One of them stated my personal belief (There is no heaven).

One relayed personal experience (I was “saved” by the Lundstroms).

One was pure sarcasm (Maybe things would be different if I were a Far Right Leaning Religious Fundamentalist War Monger with a Bible in one hand and a rocket launcher in the other).

All taken out of context of the discussions in which they were posted.

Nice try.

Wrong again. My first post here was accepting the pledge of non-violence after the Gifford shooting:

“Rather than copy and paste the pledge here again, I’ll just say I accept this and agree with it’s intent.”

Another nice try.

that was not your first post bigot but it is full of hate try to stay on topic moron.

they where not taken out of context that was the full context of your words. nice try in trying to hide like a coward. fact none of these guys where talking to you. fact these where attacks on christians. now if i where to say that musilms all the same they just love to strap bombs to themself and blow people up. not saying i believe that just so you know. anyways that would not only be racist but full of bigotry. i don’t care that you don’t believe in what i do and if it was not for attacks like this i would just pay no attention to you. but these hate full rants just tick me off. now if we are done here i got a hunt for an woman that thinks ww2 was started by the Jews and are little chat has taken away from that. all i am asking you is to tone it down abit on attacking chirstians for what we believe in is that to much to ask?

Yes they were taking out of context. FACT: They were comments made pertaining to someone’s post in discussion threads. FACT: I have no reason to hide that fact.

They were not hateful rants, they were responses.
Your posts (thousands of them) have been however. Filled with hate, name calling and intolerance time and time again, and contain very little information or useful discussion pertaining to the threads.

I don’t understand what it is that you think gives you the right to “hunt” anyone on this site. If you are that sensitive to differing facts, opinions and beliefs, I find that sad. You have established a pattern of behaviour and I doubt you will change it anytime soon, although this is the most well thought out and cordial response you have ever made to me and I thank you for that effort and self control.

Until such time as a moderator of this site says differently, I see no reason to “tone it down”. But as I’ve said before, if you stop responding to my posts in the manner which you have established, I have no issue with you at all. If all you’re going to do is continue to chime in with nonsense and personal attacks, why bother?

Seriously, Have a Good Day, Ryan.

Indeed I do. She is a strong, courageous woman.

fine then lets agree to leave eachother alone then deal? and you have a good day to.

You bet! I mean unless we actually decide we want to have a discussion about something. I wouldn’t totally rule that out. There’s always the chance, eh? : )

agreed.

Amen.

Ah, nice. You’re wrong so the next best thing to do is to cite someone else that is also wrong to back up your position. Great logic.
My opinion has nothing to do with it. There is no law mandating a “separation of church and state”. The Constitution states that the government is not allowed to make a law endorsing or regulating an establishment of religion. It states that religious expression is a right. Your position is in direct conflict with the Constitution. It can not be more clear. 

Right on. “OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF!  OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF!! OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF!!!”
The bare spot on the wall next to the prayer banner expressed that little girl’s atheistic views on religion perfectly. She had her display, and the banner represented a different point of view.

Ever heard of Supreme Court rulings? There is indeed separation of church and state. James Madison, who wrote the first amendment, also was an advocate of it.

Nobodies rights are being taken away by the banner coming down. Students can still pray in school. They just don’t have government to hold their hand when they do it. I would think that conservatives would like that.

It’s me, again. I like both of the legitimate responses I got because they both express viable views.  Yes, MarsBarsTru7, the “great nothing” did represent the little girl’s views (actually her parents’ brainwashing) well. The guy who started Christianity can’t be substantiated historically, and he may just as well been somebody’s imaginary friend (like Captian Pierce’s friend,
Captial Tuttle). This means one of the three great religions is based in imagination, but even if it is, it’s a belief I like and will continue to entertain. And in a way, an imaginary Jesus is even better than the real guy–it means we did a little good all on our own!

And Mbagrad02: Does the ”Mba” stand for something above middle school? If so, go back and kick your reading teacher right where it’ll do the most good.  I won’t start a grammer discussion here, but subordinant clauses are normally in ascending order of importance.  Of course I agree with you that the Bandits of the Beltway neither have the power to impose a theology nor will they ever be allowed to attempt to grant themselves such power. This is sort of a glass-half-full or -half-empty discussion, anyway. I believe the best way to stop intolerance is to get to know the other guy’s beliefs and you seem to believe the best way to stop intolerance is to ignore the damned thing (please forgive my blundering attempt at pigeon-holeing you). Your point is valid and I accept your view as worthy of consideration.  But I keep going back to that pesky “OR” word…. 

 I see a world where kids get to share and discuss their personal religion with those who practice a different philosophy. There’s beauty in all the countless ways the Creator is celebrated. And though nobody has the right answer, maybe getting a better understanding of all the theories will get us closer to some sort of celestial understanding.  And to totally change the subject, if you buy a ceramic knife and the instructions say “it’s sharp, keep your thumb out of the way, idiot,” believe them!

Once again, I thank you both for caring enough to teach me new stuff

John Burleson.

JWD

yes thats my thoughts on the matter.

At a certain point this thing doesn’t seem to have a Reply button, so instead of replying to your last comment I’ll reply to this previous comment which I believe I can reply to repeatedly.

To the point: Again, citing court decisions on the matter that were wrong doesn’t back up your position. There have been many decisions made in the lower courts as well as the Supreme Court over the years that have been flat wrong. Any decision restricting religious expression that doesn’t infringe upon the rights of others is in conflict with the Constitution. The AGENDA of not allowing religious expression by anyone in government and/or disallowing religious expression on government land is in contradiction to the Constitution and the laws of the land, not advocating them. You can name as many politicians as you can find that agree with such a notion, but it doesn’t make it legal and it certainly doesn’t reflect the values upon which the laws were founded. The intent of the Constitutional laws regarding the Freedom of Religion is to allow everyone to freely express their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) and to prevent any organized religion from directly controlling government policy and to prevent the government from controlling the religious beliefs of the people. It is clear and indisputable.

You are an admitted atheist. Your bias is showing. If you were intellectually honest you’d admit the obvious truth here. Instead, just as FFRF does, you simply favor whatever action removes religion from public display or dialogue. It strikes me as pathetically desperate the way people like you grasp at whatever you can to promote your perspective. You’re the minutiae. The vast majority of people in this country do not agree with you. The Constitution doesn’t agree with you. Logic, morality, and rational thought altogether don’t agree with you.

You can run around attempting to put out fires all over the comments section here all you want, but it won’t change the truth. You can run around the Internet promoting your perspective and attempting to tear down religious advocates all you want, but it won’t change the truth.

Hopefully one day you’ll realize the truth and accept it, along with finding integrity. The truth is atheism has no morality. Atheism has no integrity. Everything is relative when you believe in nothing. Make the excuses you can about how morality is related to survival. It’s not a reason, it’s an excuse for you to adhere to the moral traditions of a civilization based on religious values. You should be grateful that this country was founded on Judeo-Christian values as those values compelled the people that founded this country to allow Freedom of Religion.

JWD = Job Well Done