Glenn talks to Pastor Mark Driscoll about Christendom, intolerance, and changing the culture

Mark Driscoll is the pastor of Seattle’s Mars Hill Church, which has grown from a living room Bible study to a mega church at draws thousands of followers each Sunday. Mark joined Glenn on Wednesday’s Glenn Beck Program to discuss his book, A Call to Resurgence: Will Christianity Have a Funeral or a Future?, which looks at the the roadblocks Christianity faces as a result of today’s morally shifting culture.

Glenn and Mark began their conversation by looking at one of the reasons Christendom is in trouble, according to Mark: Intolerance.

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With the culture so devoid of morality, what is the solution? Mark and Glenn discussed the importance of raising better, stronger men, who recognize the difference between good and bad, right and wrong.

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 TheBlaze TV subscribers can watch the entire interview HERE.

  • Jimmy Z

    Yeah, well… Jesus Christ Himself (and I know Glenn does not know the Bible’s Jesus) was intolerant. Jesus did NOT tolerate sin.

  • Anthony Sellers

    I agree but the Jesus of the bible spent much time with sinners. After counseling many folks involved in many different sins, I’ve come to the conclusion that Jesus loves people but hates all sin. I should love others as much as I love myself, but also hate my personal sin as much as I hate the sins of others. If homosexuality or abortion makes me angry, I should be just as angry and distraught over my own “private, personal” sins.

  • Anonymous

    Glenn, loved this segment. Something you might find interesting…http://www.lifestream.org/sites/default/files/–pdf/the_naked_church_3rd_edition_0.pdf.

    Also, look at some of his other writings. It helped me, might help answer some of your musings as well. God bless you Glenn. Love you, your staff, and your work. Your sister in Christ.

  • Shawn Matthew

    Where do you get the impression that Driscoll tolerates sin? He openly called it all sin.

  • Jimmy Z

    I was more talking about Beck, but I have suspicions about Driscoll as well.

  • Seth Bailey

    Blah blah blah “why are people so intolerant of our intolerance?” Christians are dumb.

  • Seth Bailey

    Extra credit: What political party did McCarthy belong to? ;)

  • Anonymous

    Democrat then Republican.

  • aaron johnson

    I watch Pastor Mark’s stream every week and I know he has sound Biblical principles. Just wish he would use the KJV instead of the ESV…

  • aaron johnson

    Alright pastor Mark! Great stuff! #116unashamed!

  • Anonymous

    While we are alive, all sin is *tolerated* (from Latin toleratus: to endure) that is, we must endure the sins of others because we cannot judge the soul (that’s not to say we can’t incarcerate) and we wouldn’t be forgiven. Jesus walked amongst sinners. He endured (tolerated) them. He loved them. Jesus did not *permit* sin. Jesus was not permissive.

    Tolerate and Permit are different words and the difference is crucial.

  • Anonymous

    Wordsmithing at work. The word tolerant is (generally) being misused. Churches of good will and people of good will are, by nature, tolerant — they endure the sins of others and themselves.

    Those who claim people of good will are “intolerant” (as in bigots, haters, etc.) desire more than tolerance — they desire permission and complicity for their sins.

    For example, some people say The Catholic Church is “intolerant” of homosexuals. Absolutely incorrect. The Catholic Church does and has endured (tolerated) homosexuals. What The Catholic Church cannot do, is give permission for homosexual actions. The Catholic Church has *no authority* to give permission for homosexual actions. The Catholic Church church cannot give permission for adultery, fornication, alcoholism, birth control, intolerance, etc. Does The Catholic Church have people in the pews and in the clergy guilty of all these sins? Yes (and even worse)! And the Catholic Church endures (tolerates) them. The stewards of The Catholic Church are people and individually, some may be truly intolerant but not the Church.

    The tolerant tolerate intolerance, the intolerant tolerate nothing.

  • OvidiuGOA

    yes the Catholic Church has torelated homosexuals, most of it’s priests are

  • aaron johnson

    Jesus loves you Seth…

  • Anonymous

    What an intolerant, moronic statement.

  • Anonymous

    You are correct, but I think that the problem lies with people’s definition of the word “tolerate”. They think that, if you tolerate something, then you must embrace it. They can’t seem to understand that I can tolerate something that I find repulsive. Catholics tolerate homosexuality but the do not and cannot embrace it.

  • Matt Smith

    The last 3 words of this comment summarize the very essence of intolerance. You and I may not agree on much if anything, but saying that I am dumb because I believe different than you is exactly the view the “tolerance” crowd is campaigning against. The fact that a person soliciting tolerance uses demeaning & intolerant terms to/about/for anyone else is a contradiction in terms.

  • Brant Vice

    Keep up the good work Glenn. I was a confirmed Catholic, but very much an Atheist now after reading the bible, conversing with people of other faiths, and doing my own research. It seems whenever a person a faith and non-faith converse, emotions usually take over…and I’m definitely guilty of that. As for tolerance FROM people of non-faith, you have to look at it from our perspective. “E Pluribus Unum” changed to “In God We Trust”, a constant push from random people of faith to edge in God to our secular government, murder in the name of faith, etc. I hate bad, useless, waste of air people…not the religious just because their views differ from mine. Be a good person and keep out of other people’s business. Especially when it comes to the gay issue. You have zero right to lobby against people’s basic human rights. But this was definitely a good watch. Thanks.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    If Christianity wants to have a future, then it has to learn how to strengthen itself from within and stop attempting to regulate what is without. In the latter half of the 20th century and the start of the 21st century, many so-called Christians have attempted to use and abuse the rule of secular law and our government to enforce specific beliefs of the Christian faith onto those who are not part of the faith, while at the same time continually failing to hold its own membership and leadership to accountability and failing to lead their congregations. In many churches there is entirely too much focus on building wealth, extravagance and indulgence and not enough teaching on the word of Christ and the Holy Spirit. “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and render unto God what is His.”

  • Tom

    My problem with this is that true Christian Pastors are becoming more acceptable of the Mormon religion and they actually think they are christians. I was Mormon and I know how damaging their beliefs are and how far they are from Christianity. Beck has recieve a calling from the leaders of the LDS Church (help us in the world to seem more christian). They need big help right now and are calling on all the popular Mormons to use their influence to make them seem like christians.

  • Anonymous

    “…people of faith edging in God to our secular government”. I find this statement to be particularly confusing. Even the slightest bit of research reveals that our nation, beyond a shadow of a doubt, was founded on ideas that came straight out of the Christian Bible. Separation of powers, being a democratic republic versus a full democracy…or a kingdom, are all ideas straight out of the bible. Most of our original laws are obviously biblical. On several occasions during the first 150 years of existence, the Supreme Court even quoted in its opinions that we are a “Christian Nation.” There were a few founding fathers of other faiths like Muslims and Jews. But the vast majority of our founders were devout Christians. Even Jefferson and Franklin who were the least devout of all the founders (because of which, some historians want to call them either atheist or deist) were actually devout Christians. And by today’s standards both would have been considered evangelistic. To that end, almost all our founders kept diaries that have been published. Read a few of them and you will see our nation was a Christian nation at birth. What has actually happened is random secularism has edged into our Christian government over the past 224 years.

    The challenge (as you have stated and I agree) is to remain unemotional and civil in the face of vastly conflicting world views. In your opinion, I have to assume…and correct me if I am wrong, this progression towards secularism is a good thing. In my opinion, it is not. Based on recent political elections, I…and people of my like mind, are now in the minority and you and people of your like mind are the majority. Will our nation’s laws protect us as a minority in the same way they do racial and lifestyle choice minorities? At least as of now, it does not look like it.

    Intolerance and hatred is a human condition. We all suffer from it. And we all must work hard to overcome it. The worst offenders of intolerance these days are the people demanding tolerance. Because they are not actually demanding tolerance. They are demanding acceptance. But tolerance, by definition, is not acceptance. Tolerance is recognition of differences and not requiring the other party to change their minds. (But that does not mean we cannot try to change the others mind, we just can’t get antisocial if they refuse.) That is also a principle of our founding fathers free speech.

  • Anonymous

    Enforce specific beliefs on those who are not part of the faith? And what beliefs would those be? That murder should be illegal? that human life is worth protecting? That we should run our lives with integrity? That we should help others who aren’t as fortunate as us? The cads!!!

  • Laureen Simper

    I am a Mormon and I worship Jesus Christ and recognize Him as the Son of God and the Savior of the World. What the world calls me or recognizes in that doesn’t impact my love and worship of Him, or my daily practice of treating others the way He has taught me.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FvmesaxXg Sam Fisher

    You know as a right winged Christian I think you are right. I think the reason some people went down the big government road is do to laziness

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FvmesaxXg Sam Fisher

    The only reason why we are losing the battle for the hearts and minds of the people is that self proclaimed Christians are a little to lazy to talk about the word of God. Answer is not banning gay marriage no the answer is getting out on the streets sharing the good news for if we Christians did our job that Jesus sent us out to do would their be a need to ban gay marriage no because their would be only a small amount of people that would do it instead of millions. We would not have to deal with abortion drugs drunkenness and sex outside of marriage if we Christians got off our rears and do something about it by changing the hearts and minds of the people and it is not like Jesus did not leave us without a way to reach out to people. Our guide lines is in the Bible it should be as easy as opening up your book and knowing what is in their and the willingness to speak about what you learned.

  • Ed Tandy McGlasson

    Glenn- Loved your interview- I’m a former NFL player, a pastor in CA and have been speaking on the issue of fatherlessness for the last 20 years. The real answer to your question of how we reach the young men today is not to tell them that they’re ‘wrong’, because ‘if they’d had a good dad, he would have told them’. That’s not an answer. There’s just no hope in that. Most kids are acting that way BECAUSE they didn’t have a present, loving father in their story. How’s that going to help them? You can’t change the behavior without first addressing the wound. I’ve written 3 books on the subject of fatherlessness and a possible solution to this growing issue. God did provide a real answer to heal a whole culture. I’d love the opportunity to talk with you further about it. By the way- there’s a reason why all my football buddies on the sideline used to say ‘Hi Mom’ to the cameras. It was largely because there wasn’t a present father in their story.

  • Anonymous

    Mormons do worship Jesus Christ. But the golden tablets never existed. Jesus also said not to add another testament to his word, which is what the Book of Mormon is. I am certain that you are a wonderful person. I really mean that. But there are people who go by what the Bible says and there are people who go by what Joseph Smith says. There is a major distinction there. Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith were not in lockstep ideologically.

  • Anonymous

    But he didn’t go out of his way to prevent atheists from being atheists. The topic at hand is how many MANY atheists are immensely intolerant of Christians and what’s worse, they are in complete denial of it most of the time. Jesus didn’t tolerate sin, but he did forgive ALL sin.

  • Anonymous

    If you had any evidence to support your claim here, then I’m sure you would have posted it by now.

  • Anonymous

    Well said. It applies not just to the Catholic Church, but anyone who uses the word as a moral measuring stick. I get pissed off when people say Christianity offends them. The Bible instructs people to love their enemies, which in many cases would be atheists. Atheists would never try to do anything in any way similar to that.

  • Laureen Simper

    Actually, it was John who said that his book of Revelation should not be added to; Revelation was written long before all the books that now constitute the Bible were compiled as such. Joseph Smith, and every other church president following him, have urged Latter-Day Saints to follow the teachings of the Bible, and that is the central message of the Book of Mormon – the teachings of Jesus Christ. I am certain you are a wonderful person as well – that must be how we recognized each other. :)

  • Anonymous

    I’m aware of the fact that John wrote the book of Revelation but alas, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” 2 Timothy 3:16. The book of Revelation is the final book of Christian doctrine, period. No matter how many years go by, it still applies. The teachings of Jesus Christ would therefore reject every single solitary word of the Book of Mormon.

  • David Rosenthal

    Galatians 1:8,9 speaks of those who introduce another gospel, as Mormonism does, saying, “let them be accursed.”
    2 Peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

  • David Rosenthal

    God was in our government from the first moment, as we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. And as Abraham Lincoln lso said, this nation under God. George Washington said that no nation can be rightly governed without God and the Bible. Your lack of information is not a good basis for debating that of which you have no knowledge.

  • Anonymous

    “You have zero right to lobby against people’s basic human rights. Especially when it comes to the gay issue.” Marriage sprang from the Garden of Eden. The word, the idea, the concept, the whole nine yards, came from the Bible. In my opinion, it is a bad idea for government to get involved in marriage at all. It opens up the debate for the moronic idea of “gay marriage.”
    The Bible is the source of the idea of marriage, and the Bible also opposes homosexuality. Homosexuality and THE ACTUAL DEFINITION OF MARRIAGE are two diametrically opposed ideas. Homosexuality is the epitome of what marriage is NOT. I have nothing against homosexual people using the label “Marriage” to describe their relationship. Their partnership however is not in anyway similar to the one I have with my wife. How do they decide who takes out the garbage? How do they decide who kills the spider? How do they decide who stays home and watches the kids (oh wait, they intentionally decided to enter into a relationship that cannot produce offspring)? Who provokes the argument about how much sports should be watched at home? Who’s the protector? Who’s the nurturer? Which one has their dad walk down the aisle during the wedding ceremony? Who’s the bride? Who’s the groom?
    You see, in a REAL marriage the answer to all of these questions is answered quite easily. In a contrived one, there is much confusion.

  • Anonymous

    Laureen seems like a total sweetheart. I just wanted to get into a debate of exegesis. It usually ends up showing Mormonism for what it really is.

  • David Rosenthal

    Mormons are great folks. Shame they are Mormons.

  • Anonymous

    You were a young man once, I think I’m just headed out of the “young” stage. We both know what young men have on their minds on a constant basis. They want girls, girls, girls. Not necessarily in a sexual sense, but we just love women. It’s how we are wired. The basic motive of all young men is, how do I live my life in a way that will get me a good woman?
    You either learn how to do that from a good father, or from an alternate source, usually a bad one. In the end, doing things the way God said to do them, lands you with the best woman of all. In my biased opinion, the woman that God gave me as a beautiful, priceless gift, my wife, is the best woman in the world. I obtained her love by Godly means.

  • Anonymous

    Kevin, I’d like to know whether or not you are a Christian. It would explain your angle a little better here. Christianity will never go away whether you think it’s possible or not. Christians and the Christian Church at large should, as you say, hold to their teachings. The most fundamental idea that any Christian should adhere to, if in fact they ARE a Christian, is that we are all imperfect. Yes both the believer and the unbeliever are imperfect.
    The Word of God is flawless. It needs no tweaking. When it is obeyed, good things happen. When it isn’t obeyed, bad things happen.

  • Anonymous

    Christianity will live on, just as it has survived over the millenia. The problem is becoming like the GOP today, there are too many churches which are turning on to each other. Each is claiming to be the true church of God, but is also condemning other churches and faiths. True Christians live by example not by hypocrisy.

  • Anonymous

    I’m a Christian. I will tolerate your proclivity toward saying as many stupid things as you want to.

  • Anonymous

    There is no ban on gay marriage Sam. In order to ban it, it would have to become legalized first, and then repealed. It’s getting legalized throughout the nation, but it hasn’t been repealed anywhere. There is a fine line between banning something and preventing it from being passed into law. Liberals would like you to think that both of these things are the same, hence changing the argument by changing the language.

  • Anonymous

    Extra Credit: What political party sprang from the KKK?

  • Laureen Simper

    My favorite scripture in the Book of Mormon:
    “And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.” (2 Nephi 25:26)
    I rejoice that you also love Christ – peace, brothers.

  • Jimmy Z

    Different God, different Jesus.

  • Jimmy Z

    Tom, the shame is the blurring of the line between truth and falsehood. Mormonism uses all the right terms, but they all mean something different.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    I have no angle, just the truth. Too many Christians are focused on the splinter in another’s eye rather than the beam in their own, and you can’t be the shining beacon on the hill when you miserably fail to live by your own standards. Nobody is perfect on their own, but they are perfected through Christ. After you know you’re on the right footing with God, then you can be of service to your brother and sister in Christ so that they, too, will become encouraged by your righteousness. And through the shining example of the whole church, as a beacon on the hill, will the world be transformed. Not because the church is ruling it with an iron fist, but because it is what other people will choose to desire for themselves.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    Some of it is laziness, but I believe a lot of it is the false notion that the United States is a “Christian nation”, which we are not and never have been. We are a nation of Christians, just as we are a nation of Jews, Muslims, and many other faiths and cultures. What unites us as a nation doesn’t come from any one faith, but of an idea of individual human right and dignity that was born in the Age of Enlightenment.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    Wow, I can’t believe you nailed it on the first try! Great job! yes, those cads!!!!!!!!!!!!!~!!!!

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    The idea and concept of marriage did not spring from the Bible, It is an ancient concept that runs far longer and deeper than the Old Testament, the Torah, the Tanekh and even the ancient religions that would eventually splinter and refine to become Judaism.

    Inside Christianity, individuals have a right to form a community and decide what standards they wish to live by. Outside of that community, though, they have no right to arbitrarily decide what standards others must abide by. To do so through the tyranny of the majority should be a disgrace to Christians everywhere, considering our own history as a despised minority.

  • Anonymous

    Kevin, I like you, but you’re patently wrong about two things. Marriage DID start in the Bible. It started from day one. Adam and Eve were the first married partners. Genesis is the first document regarding marriage. The Bible invented and patented the concept. There’s no way around it. He literally took the man’s rib out because that part of his body was the closest to his heart, that is Eve. Forget how allegorically beautiful that concept is. Without graphic detail, a man and a woman fit naturally, perfectly together. God made women beautiful because he knew we would chase after them and populate the earth. Marriage isn’t a passion, sex is. Marriage is a commitment. It quite honestly sucks at times. But I married my wife in God’s house, according to his will and his Word. Gay marriage doesn’t fit that bill by any measure. They traded their natural relations for unnatural ones, and received the due penalty for their perversions, so the good book says.
    Christians have been a despised minority. They’ve been oppressed by others and failed to learn from it. It makes them HUMAN! The Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades were examples of men disobeying the Bible’s precepts. Those two events are not condoned by the Bible. Everything good that has ever happened is lauded by the Bible. Every thing bad that has ever happened is completely, 100% condemned by the Bible.

  • Anonymous

    Exactly.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    Keep in mind that what is currently considered the “final book” wasn’t actually final until the Council of Trent, over 1500 years after the death of Christ, and after many revisions of including more popular texts and removing less popular ones. The Holy Bible was never meant to be the end-all, be-all. Instead it was simply a collection of texts that the majority believed to be the most useful and beneficial to the education and enlightenment of Christianity as a whole. It came into being in part by spiritual guidance, and in part by backroom political dealings between prominent spheres of influence within the Holy Roman Empire. It does not mean that texts not included, either in the past or the future, were not as inspired and God-breathed. The Holy Bible, even in 1562, was not accepted by every branch of Christendom, and even the Holy Bible itself has been subject to continued editing and refinement in the nearly 500 years since being formalized. While you yourself, your church, and your denomination of Christianity may freely choose to not accept the Book of Mormon as fit for your own edification, can you rightfully claim that you have the God-given authority to declare it unfit for any Christian or denomination to use?

  • Anonymous

    Kevin, you are clearly not a Christian in any way shape or form. You either follow the Bible or you don’t. I don’t have any God-given authority to decide anything. He laid it all out and I’m simply parroting him. You either have the ability to grasp what he says or you don’t. If you study the Bible deeply enough, you can see why the 66 books support the message and that they need no companion work, such as the Book of Mormon.

  • Anonymous

    And love our enemies as well. What a bunch of jerks we Christians are. Only a jerk would love their own enemy.

  • Anonymous

    The Church isn’t the beacon on the hill man! CHRIST IS! Do you even understand the Bible?! I’ve noticed that you haven’t quoted scripture to support anything you’ve said yet. That would be your gateway to credibility here.

  • Anonymous

    Love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemy. Two simple and fundamental paths to human rights and dignity. Outdates the Age of Enlightenment by a longshot, since that happened after the Sermon on the Mount. By the way, the Sermon on the Mount is a form of enlightenment that every human being needs to hear.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    Genesis is the first document regarding marriage WITHIN Judaism, and is believed to have been first formally codified in the 6th century BC. These laws and rules existed before the time of Judiasm in the people of Israel, which was a small subset of the people of Caanan, all of which existed long before somebody thought to codify it all in the Book of Genesis.

    Of course, as was pointed out in an earlier discussion, you can’t ban gay marriage if it was never allowed to being with. So, following that logic, the Bible (and thus Judaism, and the Israelites before it) couldn’t condemn homosexuality as a sin if it didn’t exist, which means that somewhere within the world known to Jews, Israelites, and Caananites, homosexuality was known and approved of. Judaism couldn’t tell non-Jews what to follow, but it could certainly create its own rules and beliefs.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    So, you have no God-given authority to decide anything, but you’ve decided that I am clearly not a Christian? You have created a contradiction for yourself. For you to declare that I am not a Christian means that you do speak with authority.

    If you study the Bible deeply enough, you can create many sorts of arguments that agree or disagree with a wide variety of positions. It is a deep and complex work of inspired thought. It is the inspired word of God, and its creation was guided by God’s hand, but it is cobbled-together work of man.

    Perhaps it would do you much good to read beyond the pages of the Bible, and do more research on how the Bible came into being, because what is on the inside is only a small part of it that has been carefully refined and crafted into creation over centuries.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    And what is the church, other than to be the representation of Christ on Earth until He returns?

    Why do I need to quote scripture? Did you forget it, or need reminded of something?

  • Anonymous

    So-called Gay Marriage never happens — “legal” or not. Some people are deceived to think it happens but the marriage never occurs.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    Indeed. But the Age of Enlightenment is not based on the Sermon of the Mount alone, nor is it based entirely on any event depicted in the Bible or other apocryphal story presented through Judeo-Christian lore.

  • Anonymous

    @Bert30:disqus @angrymarkscom:disqus Christ established His Church, perfect in every way, and He chose man to be His stewards of the Church. Whatever one may think or opine of *the stewards* and their behavior, Christ did give them the authority and His Church remains perfect.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    There is no doubt that He did give them authority. That does not mean that they are necessarily perfect or redeemed, that they are perfectly following His example and commandments, or that they’re even serving as role models. Only God knows for what purpose they were set in a position of stewardship, but that doesn’t mean that their stewardship cannot be questioned or challenged. If that was the case, then nobody at all would be able to raise such questions, it wouldn’t even be a thought within our mind.

  • Anonymous

    Blessed with the gift and responsibility of The Holy Spirit, He was rejected because of the failings and whispers of people? He waits, patiently and lovingly for all of us.

    Free Will Choice is a right, but no one has the authority to permit wrong. People can already do as they desire so the champions of the “gay issue” actually desire something else, a false right: permission and complicity.

    And they desire (demand?) it from everyone.

  • Anonymous

    To put it simply: the stewards are imperfect, His Church is perfect. To question is to be human, to endure a challenge is to be tested in the fire. Some melt others are strengthened all are still being tested.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FvmesaxXg Sam Fisher

    It was just an example to use. Maybe a better one would be the knockout game or something else but anyways my point was that we would not be seeing all this lawlessness and turn away from God if we Christians stood for the word of God and followed Jesus’ last commandment. Just think of what the world would be if we had more God fearing Christians.

  • James D

    Does Jesus tolerate your sin?

  • Anonymous

    By their fruits… David.

  • Jimmy Z

    No. Jesus FORGAVE my sin.

  • Anonymous

    Joseph Prince says that about preaching anything other than the Gospel of Grace of Jesus Christ. I’ve heard him quote that scripture several times. Joel Osteen never preaches on condemnation either, although I listened to a sermon once where he used the “I” word. Man, talk about God convicting ones spirit. You don’t want Joel Osteen preaching a condemnation message. You really don’t. How do you reach people that won’t listen to the message of Grace tho’? And on Mormons, well I’m not Mormon. And Glenn seems to be unifying people and under divine providence. I don’t know what else to say on that other than that.

    John Hagee is a regular on his show, Joel Osteen was on also a couple months back. Not one individual is 100 percent right on Biblical doctrine. We are not suppose to judge, but, I see the spirit of antichrist I let them have it with both barrels. Does that mean I’m accursed for doing so? Did you just violate what you just posted? By preaching another message besides Grace? Because you just labeled Mormons as “accursed” and the word means what I posted below.

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G331&t=KJV

    “accursed”

    devoted to the direst of woes (you really think that of the Mormons?)

  • Anonymous

    You spoke well…

    “The only reason why we are losing the battle for the hearts and minds of the people is that self proclaimed Christians are a little to lazy to talk about the word of God.”

    Amen, with boldness too. Take this nation back.

  • Brant Vice

    You guys do understand you’re arguing a religious book with an Atheist. The validity of that book is an entirely different issue. I wasn’t looking for a debate, just giving Glenn props. As for the
    questions about who kills the spider, who takes out the trash, etc.
    Read that again and tell me you don’t find that just ridiculous.

  • Anonymous

    Sorry, still not ridiculous.

  • Anonymous

    Kevin, you don’t know anything about the Bible, as you continue to clearly demonstrate.

  • Anonymous

    Homosexuality was rampant in Sodom and Gomorrah, hence God’s wrath on the two cities, and hence the origin of the word “sodomy.”

  • Anonymous

    I pretty much agree dude.

  • Anonymous

    Attaching the word “gay” to marriage is quite honestly an insult to us REAL married people.

  • Anonymous

    Yes tony, you are spot on. I really can’t argue with you on that. You’re referring to the Holy Christian Church on Earth, which exists only in the hearts of true believers. Believe me, I can tell that you and I are in lockstep ideologically. The Bible is the truth and humans are imperfect, period.

  • Anonymous

    Stop being a lawyer, nobody is going to pay you a retainer in here. David used the scripture to defend the scripture. He didn’t pose it as his own original idea. Your beef is with Peter and Paul the apostles, and also with Jesus Christ’s teachings. Take it up with them when you get the chance.

  • Anonymous

    …they will be known, yes. The Bible makes it clear what happens to those who disregard or misrepresent it. This musing belongs to God, not me.

  • Anonymous

    My point is, the “Age of Enlightenment” paled in comparison with the enlightenment found in the Word of God. Of course it isn’t based on the Sermon on the Mount, nor is anything you keep saying in here. Do you validate ANYTHING that is in the Bible? Or is it just a load of crap to you?

  • Socialism is Organized Evil

    Constitution: In criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy an impartial jury of the state and district where the crime was committed.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    You don’t know anything about me, so you cannot make that assessment, unless you’ve elevated yourself from being able to proclaim God’s word to being God himself. Just because I’m not quoting scripture in every reply doesn’t mean I lack knowledge.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    What I do or do not personally validate in the Bible is of no relevance to the conversation at hand, as we are speaking about what applies to the nation as a whole. The United States of America was not founded as a theocracy.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    Yeah, it is a little ridiculous.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    Yes. Was this in doubt?

  • Anonymous

    You’re just chalk full of non sequitirs aren’t you.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    “Non sequiturs”? I’m just responding to whatever you’re posting. If you can’t follow your own threads of discussion, you’re probably trying to have too many conversations at once.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-B-Matheson/627459376 Robert B Matheson

    The Mormon ‘j’esus is NOT the JESUS of Christianity. The Mormon ‘j’esus is an invention of Joseph Smith. The Mormon ‘j’esus is the spirit bother of satan. SEE –> JESUS CHRIST, OUR CHOSEN LEADER AND SAVIOR Chapter 3 “God sits enthroned in yonder heavens as an exalted man. He became God the same way all the other Gods before him.”-Joseph Smith-Journal of Discourses, Vol.6, p 1-7

    Joseph Smith said God was once a man….”God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens…I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form — like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man….it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the veil, so that you may see….and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3).

    <—

    Mormons are lost in sin and will die in sin unless they repent. John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-B-Matheson/627459376 Robert B Matheson

    The Mormon ‘j’esus is NOT the JESUS of Christianity. The Mormon ‘j’esus is an invention of Joseph Smith. The Mormon ‘j’esus is the spirit bother of satan. SEE –> JESUS CHRIST, OUR CHOSEN LEADER AND SAVIOR Chapter 3 “God sits enthroned in yonder heavens as an exalted man. He became God the same way all the other Gods before him.”-Joseph Smith-Journal of Discourses, Vol.6, p 1-7

    Joseph Smith said God was once a man….”God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens…I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form — like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man….it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the veil, so that you may see….and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3).

    <—

    Mormons are lost in sin and will die in sin unless they repent. John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-B-Matheson/627459376 Robert B Matheson

    NO.. You do not love Jesus Christ, You love the ‘jesus’ taught by Joseph Smith, an invention of his own mind.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-B-Matheson/627459376 Robert B Matheson

    NO.. You do not love Jesus Christ, You love the ‘jesus’ taught by Joseph Smith, an invention of his own mind.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-B-Matheson/627459376 Robert B Matheson

    ensign June 1986 I Have a Question. SECOND QUESTION ON THE PAGE.

    How can Jesus and Lucifer be spirit brothers when their characters and purposes are so utterly opposed?

    On first hearing, the doctrine that Lucifer and our Lord, Jesus Christ, are brothers may seem surprising to some—especially to those unacquainted with latter-day revelations. But both the scriptures and the prophets affirm that Jesus Christ and Lucifer are indeed offspring of our Heavenly Father and, therefore, spirit brothers. Jesus Christ was with the Father from the beginning. Lucifer, too, was an angel “who was in authority in the presence of God,” a “son of the morning.” (See Isa. 14:12; D&C 76:25–27.) Both Jesus and Lucifer were strong leaders with great knowledge and influence. But as the Firstborn of the Father, Jesus was Lucifer’s older brother. (See Col. 1:15; D&C 93:21.)

    Lets see How Mr Joseph Smith added words to the book of Revelation, Remembering Rev 22:18-19 curse on people who add. some samples

    Joseph Smith Bible The Inspired Version
    Revelation 1:1 The **Revelation of John**

    KJV
    Rev 1:1 The **revelation of Jesus Christ,**

    Joseph Smith Bible The Inspired Version
    Revelation 1:5 **Therefore, I, John, the faithful witness,**

    KJV
    Rev 1:5 **And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,**

    Joseph Smith Bible The Inspired Version
    Revelation 2:27 **And he shall rule them with the word of God; and they shall be in his hands as the vessels of clay in the hands of a potter; and he shall govern them by faith, with equity and justice,** even as I received of my Father.

    KJV
    Rev 2:27 **And he shall rule them with a rod of iron;** as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

  • Anonymous

    Bottom line, JESUS and lucifer WERE NOT brothers…..No new books OK…..Teach only from the BIBLE…..The others are kindling for starting a fire.

  • http://sketchypilgrim.tumblr.com/ jeff youngblood

    I disagree. the problem is not a lack of talk. it’s LIVING the word of God that is missing. It’s praying for people that is missing, not talk. IT’s talk to God that is missing, not talk to people.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FvmesaxXg Sam Fisher

    I think your right.

  • john quigley

    Actually Mormons do worship Jesus but it is their own version of Jesus not the Jesus of the bible. Mormons believe that Jesus does not have absolute authority on his own to forgive sins but that we must obey what is commanding in the BOM and other Mormon writings in order to be saved. Which is directly opposed to what the bible teaches. They believe that Jesus is a “god” but not The God also directly opposed to what the bible teaches and that we ourselves can actually be “god” like Jesus. They also don’t believe the Holy Spirit is God. please read the bible stop being told what to believe and examine the scriptures apart from the BOM yourself the Mormon church has striped the most important part of Jesus and that is His salvation.

  • john quigley

    Your statement while containing half truths has much misinformation in it and full of Dan brown like overexaggerations and also just flat out lies that most likely have been told to you by someone you trust and I am sorry.

    The Gospels Matthew, mark, Luke and John have been accepted as scripture right from the beginning and we have manuscripts dated to within a lifetime of Jesus that show the historical reliability of these documents that combined with cross referencing historical events in those gospels to secular historians writings of the time add to that the amount of manuscripts found dating very close to the original writing and the amount of different languages they were found in and you have historical documents that stand alone far and above any other historical writing from its time or even hundreds of years later and even over a thousand years later.
    Much of Paul’s peters and johns writings were widely accepted as scripture too right from the beginning and likewise are very historically reliable.

    The gnostic gospels are not in the bible for a reason, because they were written hundreds of years later and contain direct contradictions of actually scripture. That council you refer to and several others before that simply confirmed what many Christians already had as their bible since the beginning. Keep in mind there weren’t very many books at this time nor printing presses so it became very difficult as Christianity spread and many false manuscripts were made to keep things in order. Thankfully the core group of original Christians had been doing so since the time of jesus

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    There has been no half-truth, misinformation or over exaggeration about what I’ve posted. Religion is as much about politics as it is about spirituality, because ultimately religion is about people and their relationship to each other, their world that they know and can explain, and the universe that they do not know and cannot explain.

    Other than that, there’s no argument with what you posted.

  • Diehardduckfan

    sorry posting under a different user name.

    your statement about how back room political dealings compiling scripture directly oppose what I stated.

    Text not included as I stated were not included for many reasons not just direct dis-correlation with actual scripture but historically the gnostic gospels cannot be trusted as much as the real gospels manuscripts for many reasons. There has been lots of work done by christian historians and secular historians on this matter that are readily available and I encourage you to keep away from the extremest people out there who pick and choose what evidence they want and exclude the majority of it.

    But since you have no argument about what I posted, and since it directly opposed what you wrote, I am assuming I changed your mind? Or that you simply don’t want to debate the evidence?

    And nothing I posted is about religion, Jesus Himself directly spoke against religion.

    Also God is outside of this creation because he is a Holy God. If you are looking for explanations about this world from people who base it on their experience in the world from what they know and can explain go ahead and look at every other religion on earth. As far as I know the Bible is the only book that claims God is outside of this universe.

    You don’t seem like you want to approach this from analytical, historical examination but rather from an opinionated approach. That approach will lead this discussion no where.

  • http://AngryMarks.com/ Kevin Fields

    If there was unanimous agreement about what should be included, why did it take 18 years to complete? No, Jesus is not religion, but Christianity is religion, and it is a lot more complex than an expression of faith in Jesus Christ. I wish it wasn’t.