GLENN

Glenn Talks With Megan Phelps-Roper, Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Megan Phelps-Roper joined Glenn on radio this week for an enlightening discussion about her conversion from Westboro Baptist Church member to someone focused on understanding and inclusion. Like Glenn, Phelps-Roper is a hopeful advocate for bringing people together through honest, civil conversations --- and she's laid out a four-step plan to do just that.

RELATED: 4 Steps to Break Down Walls From a Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

Welcome to the program, Megan, how are you?

MEGAN: I'm wonderful. How are you?

GLENN: I'm good. It's really an honor to talk to you. We're big fans of what you said in your TED talk, especially from where you started, you know, in a church that is more than a little tough.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

I grew up at the Westboro Baptist Church. And my family -- the church is almost entirely my family. So around 80 percent -- there's only 80 or so people in the church. And about 80 percent are people -- my grandfather is the one who founded the church. And my mother was the de facto spokesperson for a long time. So, yeah, I grew up on the picket line.

PAT: Yeah, you actually held those hate-filled signs at funerals and other places, right?

GLENN: When you were a kid.

MEGAN: Yes. Absolutely.

PAT: Yeah.

MEGAN: It started out as a protest at a local park, and it sort of really expanded from there. As soon as, you know -- my grandfather was very aggressive, kind of hostile personality. So when people started to come out to counterprotest, everybody who was against us became a target. And eventually -- what started out as it being a protest against gay people, became, you know, we were protesting against other Christians and Jews. It expanded rapidly, until literally everyone outside of our church became a target. And so it was basically a -- you know, I was marinating in this idealogy of everybody is against us. We are against everybody because they're all against the Scriptures. You know, memorizing chapter and verse why they're wrong and why they're headed for hell. And it's our duty to go out and warn them.

STU: I'm fascinated, Megan, because I think to my childhood, and I remember fun picnics and fun trips to amusement parks and things like that. Do you have those types of memories, or is it just -- is there a competition between that and you carrying some awful sign around during a protest?

MEGAN: No. I absolutely have those memories. My -- a lot of people have a hard time understanding that they -- other than these protests and that worldview, they're -- we were a very normal -- obviously there's a lot of kids in our family. There's 11 kids in my family. And -- but we played video games and read books. And we went to public school. And, yeah, we went to amusement parks. We did all of those things, but we also -- that was all sort of organized around this nationwide picketing campaign.

So I have -- I absolutely have both, but that -- that loving family -- the nature of that is part of what makes it so, so, so hard to leave or to even consider leaving. The idea of giving it all up.

GLENN: So I just had a guy in who we're going to interview on a program that I'm working on. He was a member of the Hitler Youth. Now, he's in his 80s now. But he came of age in the Hitler Youth, until I think World War II ended, when he was 20. And he still had -- he sees the world very differently. He thinks that Churchill is a war -- should be held for war crimes. A war criminal.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: And he doesn't agree with Hitler. But he said, I never saw -- we never saw any of that. At least he said, I didn't. I was in the front row of the 36 Olympics. You know, I -- I saw all the good stuff. And the bad stuff that was thrown up, you just dismissed it because you thought it was somebody that was trying to tear us down. Is that kind of the way your childhood was in a way?

MEGAN: Well, I mean, I know -- I knew at the time -- so, for instance, the funeral picketing, I knew at the time that it was hurtful. But the way that it was framed in our church was, you know, these people don't understand that they're headed for hell, for eternal destruction. And it's a loving thing to go and warn them.

And so I saw it as a necessary evil, like we had to go do this because this was the truth and the only thing that mattered, more than anything else was the truth. And it didn't matter how we said it, where we said, or in what context, it was always a good thing. And -- and it was a point of pride for us not to consider people's feelings.

GLENN: And the people -- and the people that were coming against you, because they were screaming back in your face, it only reinforced that these are bad people.

MEGAN: Absolutely. Especially because -- I mean, there's all these passages. So, for instance, Jesus talks about blessed are ye when men shall hate you and revile you and persecute you, for my name sake. So for us, like we wanted that. It was -- we expected it. It was confirmation that we were doing the Lord's work.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: Now, take us to how someone finally broke through.

MEGAN: So Twitter -- Twitter was -- and I didn't realize it at first. I didn't realize that it was happening exactly. But Twitter was an empathy machine for me.

I really hate how it's gotten such a bad rap because that platform has done more to teach me good communication and how to engage with people than almost anything else in my life.

So on Twitter, people would -- would come at me with the same kind of, you know, hateful rhetoric and loud, you know, accusations and just very bitter. And, again, I expected it.

And I would respond, you know, in kind. And -- but then some people -- and I don't know exactly why or what motivated them. I think they -- they saw -- they say that they saw something in me that maybe I would listen or something. But in any case, they stopped yelling and stopped, you know, insulting me and started to ask questions. And they were like -- they seemed like they were actually listening to me.

GLENN: They were honest questions. They were honest questions.

PAT: Yes.

GLENN: They weren't questions of setup.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly.

And it made me feel -- and because, again, I thought I was doing a good thing. I thought that those words that we were preaching, I thought that was the absolute, unquestionable truth. So I wanted to share it with them. That's why I was on social media.

And so I would, you know, answer their questions and sort of -- we had these back-and-forths. But then because of Twitter, I'm also seeing the photos they post of their children and their friends. And it just became this -- this way for me to see people as human beings. And it was because of the way -- because of the fact that they stopped -- the way they engaged me.

STU: That's incredible, that that came from Twitter too. Someone tweeted the other day, Instagram, my life is a party. Snapchat, my life is a quirky TV show. Facebook, my life turned out great. Twitter, we're all going to die. When I go on Twitter, man, I just get so depressed. But it's amazing you were able to take that out of this.

MEGAN: Yeah. I know. But there's a couple of things about Twitter that were really helpful to me. So like, for instance, the character limit, it first made me give up insults. Because at Westboro, we would include these elaborate insults when we responded to questions that people sent us by email. But on Twitter, there just wasn't space for it.

And also, Twitter was just this immediate feedback loop. If I did insult somebody, I could watch the conversation just derail in realtime. I could see that I wasn't getting my point across because I was too busy indulging that vengeful little voice in my head that wanted to call people names. I mean, we all have this feedback loop.

GLENN: Megan, I will tell you, I've been doing these kinds of experiments myself over the last couple of years, where I've gotten in -- because I just stopped engaging for a while. About years ago, I decided, you know what, I'm just going to answer everybody and assume the best. And just answer the -- the worst with something kind and try to be humble and kind and nice to everybody. Really hard to do.

And it's amazing the results. It's truly remarkable. It doesn't cure everybody by any stretch. But it's remarkable.

And I've talked about it on the air. And so many people say, it's not going to make a difference. You can't engage with them. They're all crazy. They're all whatever. What would you say to that?

MEGAN: Man, I just disagree so -- so much with the idea of hopelessness when it comes to talking to people.

I had -- I had grown up, you know, being -- basically cultivating this mindset of us versus them, being wary -- like specifically being wary of people's kindness. And even though I consciously was aware and trying not to be persuaded by kindness, it was still a powerful thing.

It's really interesting because over the past few years, I've been thinking about this a lot obviously. Because it's only been four years since I left. So it's kind of been just this huge -- you know, huge event in my life. And what you're describing there, about, you know, assuming the best and, you know, changing the way you respond. So if somebody comes at you angry and you respond in kindness and angry, that's called like, non-complimentary behavior. And we as human beings are wired to respond in kind.

But like you said, it's incredibly difficult to do. But we can cultivate a more useful mindset. Like one thing you said -- well, my mom used to tell me, to make sure my behavior was appropriate, I should add the word "judge" on to the end of my sentence, as in, "Here's why I did it, Judge." And I still use that trick, except now I add the word "friend." If someone attacks me and I start to get riled up, I try to pause for a beat and add friend, as if I'm disagreeing with someone I love. And I don't do it to be a goody two-shoes. I do it because it works. It's just so much more effective than anger or insults or hostility.

GLENN: All right. I want to get to -- you say there are four steps. And I want to get to those here in a second. Let me just ask you one more question, and then I have to take a quick break.

Do you -- are you well aware of how appropriately timed your discovery and your story is for the rest of the world?

MEGAN: I -- I just -- I hope that -- I hope that I can be a voice or that the story can be something that will help other people see the value in engaging. Because honestly, my experience has -- has given me so much hope. I never thought I would leave. And at first, when I first left, I thought that my family, there was no hope for most of my family. I don't believe that anymore. And I'm still reaching out to them. I'm still trying to convince them to see things other ways. And if there's hope for me, if I changed, I think that there's a lot of hope.

You know, I know that the political climate is so polarized right now, but I can't help but feel so hopeful.

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper. She'll continue with us here in just a second. You need to hear what her solution is. It's really a four-step process. And it's really pretty easy. Left the Westboro Baptist Church because of kindness. You want to hear her whole story. Watch the TED video because it's quite amazing.

[break]

Megan Phelps-Roper is a former member of the Westboro Baptist Church, where people were kind to her and started to talk to her. And she says, this really works. And, you know, you could be in the cult of a political part. And I think this works. I think we need this across all lines in the world right now.

Megan, you did a TED talk. You said there are four tips on how to talk to people who you disagree with.

MEGAN: Yes. Exactly.

You want me to tell them to you?

GLENN: Yeah. Sure.

MEGAN: So the first one is -- I think it's really important -- don't assume bad intent. It's so easy to look at -- I mean, Westboro is such an easy example. They've got these neon signs. It was so clearly obvious to everyone that we were hateful and evil and awful people.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

MEGAN: But underneath it was well-intentioned people trying to do what they believed was right. So it's really easy to look at the surface and assume the worst of people, assume you understand where they're coming from. But that almost immediately cuts you off from really understanding what they're about.

GLENN: It's one of the reasons why -- I've tried to cut the word evil out of my lexicon because we use that to -- too often. And we use it about people. And I really think most people have great intent. You know, Donald Trump, Barack Obama, you can disagree with either one of them, but neither one of them think they're doing evil. They think they're doing the right thing. You just don't see it that way.

MEGAN: Exactly. I think very few -- maybe sociopaths or psychopaths. And even then --

GLENN: Right.

MEGAN: People who are deliberately doing wrong, I think they're very, very, very few and far between.

GLENN: Yes. Right. And that doesn't mean you have to go along with it, but if you say to them or their followers, you know, your guy is evil, they stop listening to you.

MEGAN: Right. Exactly. And you stop asking questions to get to the bottom of it, which is the second point. Asking questions helps you bridge the gap between your point of view and theirs. It helps you understand where they're coming from actually. And it also signals to the people that you're talking to, that you're actually listening to them.

And that is a huge benefit to the dialogue because they -- they no longer -- they don't want to yell at you. They see that you want to understand. So they're much more willing to engage. So the second point is ask questions.

GLENN: And it matters that they're honest questions, not setup questions. Not a question where I know you're going to say one thing so I can give you the Scripture quote or whatever to beat you.

MEGAN: Exactly.

GLENN: It has to be a question that's not designed for me to win. We're going to take a quick break. Come back with the last two with Megan Phelps-Roper, when we come back.

(OUT AT 10:32AM)

GLENN: Megan Phelps-Roper, somebody that we saw on TED talk, giving a great TED talk on how to bring people together. She was in the -- she's a Phelps. So she's part of the founding family of the Westboro Baptist Church. And she got online and started making friends with people who were friendly to her, not just yelling at her all the time. And she said there are four things that if you really want to change people's minds, four ways of engaging people so that real conversations can take place. The first one is don't assume bad intent. Instead, assume good or neutral intent. The second, ask questions, as opposed to accusing. Ask honest questions. It will help people let them know they've been heard. And quite often, this is all that people want.

The third is stay calm. Welcome back to the program, Megan. Explain stay calm.

MEGAN: So this one is really difficult because the natural inclination is always to respond the way that somebody is -- is speaking to you. So when somebody comes at you with hostility, the instinct is to be defensive and to respond with hostility. But that just brings the conversation to an end quickly. But if you can learn to step back, calm down and -- and try to diffuse the anger -- and you can do it in a few ways.

So, for instance, I actually ended up marrying -- my husband was one of these Twitter friends who started out as this angry, sort of insulting --

GLENN: Wow.

MEGAN: We just got married seven months ago.

GLENN: Congratulations.

MEGAN: Thank you. So what he would do, for instance, he would tell a joke or recommend a book or start talking about music. He would sort of turn away from the hostility for a minute and then come back to it -- come back to it later.

You don't necessarily -- I mean, that's -- that can be a last resort. A lot of times just staying calm and speaking as if you were addressing a friend and not somebody that you hate and that you despise that you can't -- you can't stand to hear their words. It helps so much to keep the conversation going.

GLENN: Step four.

MEGAN: Step four is make the argument.

And this one -- this one seems obvious. But there's this argument that seems to have taken hold on both the left and the right. And I think it stems from the hopelessness you mentioned earlier. Oh, they're just too far gone. They can't be reasoned with. But where does that lead us?

It leaves us at loggerheads. Deadlocked. And no one wants to be there. So you make the argument because they don't understand -- your opponent doesn't necessarily understand your thinking and the way that you're approaching the problem. And by making the argument -- if you fail to do that, you're definitely not going to change someone's mind. You actually have to articulate the reasoning and the thought process behind your position.

And there's actually a fifth point that I would have included if I had enough time -- should I tell you now?

GLENN: Yeah, go ahead.

STU: We're breaking news here. The fifth point in Megan Phelps' TED talk.

GLENN: Go ahead.

(chuckling)

MEGAN: It's take heart. Changing hearts and minds is incremental work, and it takes patience and persistence. And you're not going to see results necessarily immediately, not right away, but we can't give up. You know, and you might not be the person to persuade somebody else to turn away from a bad position, but every interaction is an opportunity to help turn the tide. So stay the course, trust the process, and take heart.

GLENN: How many people -- how many people were like this to you?

MEGAN: Well, the ones who had the biggest impact -- I mean, a handful who were engaging me continually over the course of a couple of years, considering I had been in the church. I had been raised in this. And I was 24 when I got on Twitter. So I was, again, marinating in this ideology and this way of thinking. So the fact that it only took a couple of years to really affect me and how I saw things, I think that's pretty remarkable.

GLENN: So did your husband -- was there a time when your husband -- is now your husband --

MEGAN: Yeah.

GLENN: Was he falling in love with you at the time? Did that happen later? Did he say, I can't believe I'm saying this to you -- I mean, how did that happen?

MEGAN: Well, it's a -- it's a really strange -- it was a really strange dynamic because obviously I was at the church. And at Westboro, you could only marry somebody who was in the church. So we were having these discussions, and there was nothing -- it was like a Jane Austen novel, like nothing overt. Like we couldn't say how we were feeling to each other because it just wasn't acceptable. And he sensed that.

And -- but he also, again, saw that I was a human being. And he came to believe that I had a good heart.

GLENN: So would this have worked -- would this have worked without love?

MEGAN: Well, I think -- well, so here's the thing. I -- yes, I believe so. And the reason is that the very first interaction was with a friend. I mentioned him in the talk too. Jewlicious. His name is David Abitbol.

And so it was -- I think I was talking with him for a little over a year. And, again, he's asking these questions. And in the course of asking these questions, he was the one who found the first -- the first bit of internal inconsistency in Westboro's doctrines. And when I look back at how I responded to that -- so my husband -- I didn't actually start speaking to him until months after that. But when I think about how I responded to that first bit of internal inconsistency, that was when I first started to challenge, in my own mind, Westboro's doctrines.

GLENN: And you didn't let him know that.

MEGAN: No. For sure. As soon as he had made that point, I was actually terrified to speak to him again. I didn't even let on that I recognized that he was right. I just stopped speaking to him.

GLENN: Wow. What was the point, if you don't mind me asking?

MEGAN: Oh, yeah, no, not at all.

It was a sign that said "death penalty for fags."

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

MEGAN: Yeah. So, of course -- we used, you know, the verses in Leviticus and also in Romans 1 that talk about how, you know, gays are worthy of death. And he brought up -- so he's Jewish. I was really surprised that he brought up Jesus, saying, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

And I didn't -- I just had never connected that that was talking about the death penalty. And we thought, we're not -- we're not casting stones. We're just preaching words.

And David said, "Yeah, but you're advocating that the government cast stones."

And so that -- when I brought that point to other members of the church, the response was just to double down. They never addressed the passage that -- you know, that contradicted us. They just reiterated the passages that supported us. And so that was the first time that -- and the way that I reconciled it in my own mind was I just stopped holding the sign because I didn't know how to defend it anymore. And I didn't believe in it.

GLENN: Did they tell you to stop talking to these people?

MEGAN: I don't think -- I don't think people quite realized how much -- I mean, they knew I was very active on Twitter, but I don't think they realized how much it was affecting the way that I was thinking. I honestly didn't -- didn't understand it either.

Because in my mind -- I think I was in denial about it because -- you are not supposed to be impacted by other people. You are not supposed to be anything, but preaching to them. You're not supposed to really, you know, care -- I was going to say care about them. It was a very strange dynamic. But I was in denial about it. And I think that definitely helped it seem to others as if it wasn't really having an impact on me also.

PAT: Is anybody in your family speaking with you? Do you have a relationship with anybody anymore in the family?

MEGAN: Not anybody in the church, no. But there has been over the last decade or so, about 20 or so people who have either left or have been kicked out of Westboro. And my brother actually, the morning of my high school graduation -- he's a year and a half older than me. We woke up and went downstairs, and all of his stuff was gone. And so I have -- I didn't get to speak with him for the eight and half years between when he left and when I left. But now we're really good friends. And he's wonderful.

PAT: What was he thrown out for?

MEGAN: No, he left actually.

PAT: Oh, he left on his own.

MEGAN: He left at 19. Yeah, he also had Scriptural objections to some things. And also the extreme -- he objected to the extreme level of control because everybody in the church -- we all lived within two blocks or so of one another and did everything together and were obviously not developing relationships with people outside. But the level of control is -- is really -- really, really extreme.

GLENN: Do they -- do you think this will just die out as the family dies out, or?

MEGAN: Actually, I thought about this. My sister and I would talk about this about how could the church end in a way that just wouldn't destroy everybody on the inside?

There's still about the same level of membership as there has been. Because a few people -- a few new converts have joined. And then, of course, my generation has now -- they're having kids. But there's not many.

GLENN: What kind of people would join -- what kind of people join this? They really believe -- the newcomers that come in --

STU: It's one thing to be raised in it, but to be converted as an adult.

GLENN: Decent people. Yeah.

MEGAN: So honestly, I've speculated about this too. So, for instance, my dad -- my dad joined the church long before the picketing started. He was only 16 at the time. And, you know, his family wasn't -- I mean, his mom had been divorced. I don't think he -- he was attracted to the love and unity and connection I think in my family. In the Phelps family, I think. And I think that's a draw for some people. And it really lends credence to the idea that they're doing what they're doing out of love, out of good intentions.

And, again, some people just, I think are drawn to that defense of the idea of having all the answers and knowing for sure what you believe and how you're supposed to live. Like, it's -- that was such a powerful thing. When I left and realized like, I don't -- I don't have that anymore. I don't have that sense of -- it's a very comforting sense of certainty. And, you know, nuance and questions and uncertainty are a lot more difficult to deal with. I think some people are attracted to that part of the church.

GLENN: Next time they're out protesting, what should people do?

MEGAN: I think engaging at protests is actually not a very effective thing because they're -- on picket lines, they're already in these attack/defend mindsets. I think the internet is a much -- you know, Twitter. There's a lot of them on Twitter now. I think that's a more effective way of engaging. But if you -- if you do see them and if you are moved to go and speak to them, just remember that -- that responding with, you know, yelling and name-calling, all those things, it just reinforces what they already believe. It's adding to, you know, their certainty that they're doing the right thing.

GLENN: It is really -- it's really great to talk to you. Megan Phelps-Roper. You can find her @MeganPhelps. That's her Twitter handle. @MeganPhelps.

Really great to talk to you. And thank you for sharing this. And I think you have an important voice that needs to be heard.

STU: And I will say, Megan, will you confirm this, because we got the fifth point out of you, we are 25 percent better than your TED talk.

MEGAN: Yeah, for sure.

GLENN: Megan, can we pay you an off-handed compliment. Stu wanted to say this, we said it during the break. And it's weird because it's exactly what we're talking about. We don't know each other. We don't talk to each other.

We look at people in the Westboro Baptist Church and think that their kids just must be dumb as a box of rocks. And just, oatmeal! Every answer is, oatmeal! (chuckling) And you're so articulate. I mean, it's amazing just to have that view shattered.

MEGAN: Thank you.

I will say -- I mean, another thing that's not so well-known about the church, education was really important in my family. Most of the people there -- many lawyers, people who work in health care, and IT. And they're very well educated.

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: Wow.

MEGAN: Which is partly I think what makes it so much more difficult for them to see outside of it. This is like a psychological thing where, by -- by having these very strong mostly internally consistent arguments, they -- they think they're so certain that they don't even question the -- they don't even question it.

GLENN: Amazing.

MEGAN: But, yeah, anyway...

GLENN: Thank you so much. @MeganPhelps. Thank you so much, Megan. Appreciate it.

MEGAN: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

GLENN: You bet.

Glenn is SICK of Hearing THIS About America
RADIO

Glenn is SICK of Hearing THIS About America

Glenn has heard a lot of talk lately about how Americans should hunker down and beg the government for help because the destruction of Baltimore's Francis Scott Key may affect our supply chain for a long time. But Glenn is "SICK" of hearing what America CANNOT do. Instead, Glenn asks us to remember who we are, what we've done, and who we came from. We invented skyscrapers, built the Hoover Dam, and answered the Great Depression with some of the biggest marvels of engineering ever accomplished!“Stop tearing everything down," Glenn says, "and let’s start BUILDING.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: All right. I want to give you this -- I want to give you this story today. The immediate upshot for Americans on this bridge collapse. If you're waiting for a new car to come in from overseas, prepare to wait longer. The port of Baltimore stands as the nation's leading import/export site for cars and light trucks. It's also the leading nexus for sugar. And gypsum. Which is used in fertilizer, drywall, and plaster. A record 52.3 million tons of foreign cargo was transported through Baltimore just last year.

The bustling port is cut off now after the 1.6-mile bridge crumbled and fell into the river early Tuesday, blocking the only shipping lane into the port. The port is one of the busiest in the US, and saw a record of 52-point-million tons of foreign cargo transported in 2023.

The officials have said the time line for rebuilding the bridge is, quote, years. We will do everything we can to protect those jobs and help those workers, the president said yesterday. The port of Baltimore creates more than 15,300 jobs, with 140,000 jobs linked to the activity at the port. This is a major disaster, and will continue -- and will create significant problems on the east coast, for US importers and exporters. The bridge collapse will mean for the time being, it will not be possible to get to the container terminals, or a range of the other port terminals in Baltimore. The Maryland Secretary of Transportation told the reporters Tuesday, that vessel traffic in the Port of Baltimore would be suspended until further notice, but noted the port is still open to trucks. So we still have trucks going in.

As soon as we clear the bridge, we can get vessels in.

But it's going to be a major hassle for -- over time, for cars, et cetera, et cetera.

An expert on property damage cases in the shipping industry, told the New York Post, that the collapse will have a major impact, on shipping and traffic routes in the east coast, for the foreseeable future. It's not -- quote, it's not going to get fixed any time soon.

It's going to take a lot longer than anyone expects. This is going to be a major problem for the northeast. I'm sick of this. I am absolutely sick to death of all of these stories, that say things like that.

Have we forgotten who we are? Have we forgotten what we've done?

Let me just take you on a little journey here for the American spirit. A spirit so potent and so vibrant, that it has scaled towering mountains. Mountains nobody thought that they could cross. Constructed marvels of engineering. Have you ever been to the Hoover dam? The skyscraper was invented here. Here we are on the threshold of tomorrow, none of us know what is happening tomorrow. None of us. But I'm getting the impression that we've been so beaten down, that we believe we're not going to make it tomorrow. Can I just remind you of who we come from? Our ancestors what they did. Our history, if you just look through it briefly, you will see a group of people, that never take no for an answer. And can do anything. I want to stop just briefly in 1930. The great depression had its icy grip on us. It was a time like the -- where everybody felt the flickering candle. In the vast darkness. It was just barely there.

Yet, it was in this crucible of adversity, that Americans did great things. The Empire State Building rose. It wasn't just a structure of steel and stone. But it was a beacon. A beacon of hope and American resilience and ingenuity. The way that thing was built, no one has ever seen anything like it before and since. In a record-shattering one year and 45 days, an army of workers, as many as 3400 men on certain days, they transformed this audacious vision, into a cowering reality.

The guy who was funding it knew, this thing better come in under budget. And we have to get it here fast. Or this will just destroy all of us.

The Empire State Building wasn't constructed. It was conjured into existence, with a symphony of clanging metal and roaring machines. And, quite honestly, the inexhaustible spirit of its builders.

Their stories. The men who were perched on the steel girders. That were being felony in by giant cranes, and they sat there. They whispered tales about how they could still feel the warmth of the freshly poured metal beneath them. That beam was still warm, even though it was poured in Pittsburgh.

And then pit on a train, then put on a boat. Then put on a truck. Then hauled up into the air. They could fill the warmth. It was moving that fast.

It was a feverish pace of construction. It seemed to defy the laws of time and physics.

For a long time, it was the tallest building in the world. An architectural achievement. It was also a declaration to the world, that America was a land where the impossible became possible. Determination. Innovation. A relentless will to succeed.

Yeah. That's all old, dusty history. Why even look at that? Pause they're not merely historical footnotes. They are blazing torches, illuminating our path forward. They remind us or are supposed to remind that you say when we're faced with adversity, we don't just endure it. We overcome it. We don't wait for history to chart our course. We write it with the sweat of our brow and the strength of our backs. That's who we are.

Have we forgotten that?

It's going to be years. We find ourselves at another crossroads, America. Faced with the challenges that threaten to dim the bright future that we all dream for, for our nation, for our children.

The spirit that build the Empire State Building, that laid down miles of railroads. That cut through the Rocky Mountains.

That sent astronauts to the moon.

It's still inside of every heart of every American, somewhere. Awaken that spirit.

Scale new mountains. It's not just rock and earth. Scale the mountains of innovation and stainability.

Build. Not just physical structures. But a future that upholds the spirit of adventure and hard work and ingenuity.

Stop tearing everything down, and let's start building.

Well, we might have another president. You know, who is out there? Who could we?

Why are we waiting? If this isn't a national emergency, I don't know what it is. And I don't mean the bridge. I mean all of it.

Well, our government has to lead. Really? Really?

Does it?

Maybe that's our problem. America is led by its values and its principles, that are found in the soul of those who still remember who we are, and who we serve.

Americans led the way. The government always follows.

Yeah. Well, we can't act without them.

Bullcrap. Where are the bridge builders who will stand up today, and say, I'll get it done?

As soon as that happens, you'll see who is leading, and who is stalling. The government is the one that stalls the engine out. To expect more from our leaders is rational. But to expect the most from ourselves, is essential.

We are the architects of our destiny. We are the builders of our dreams. There's a huge task that's right in front of us. I still believe we can tackle that. We can overcome anything.

The history of America is a tapestry, woven with the threads of bold endeavors. Monumental achievements. Blood, the blood spilled at the Empire State Building, and every other path to greatness. Let's harness the potential, not for glory. Not look at us. Oh, we're the best. We're the best. But because we understood -- we understand that in the pursuit of a better world, action is not just an option. It's our duty.

I often wonder, as I look into the horizon now, in today's America. Is that a sunset or a sunrise?

It depends on you. If Americans rise with the determination that carried our forbearers through the trials and tribulations. If we build with love and compassion and an unbreakable commitment to the spirit of daring adventure and hard work and ingenuity, we restore ourselves and our country.

In the words of our ancestors that are etched in every American heart, somewhere, you can do it. You can become anything. You can do anything.

That doesn't make it easy. It doesn't mean you deserve. You deserve it. You can do it. Because it's hard. And it's in doing the hard things, that we find the best of ourselves. That's why everything that's going on is not necessarily a curse.

It's an honor to serve at this time. Because we can find the best of ourself.

We can step forward into the dawn of a new day with our eyes wide open to all of the problems of the past and the possibilities that are right in front of us.

But we have to resolve to make those possibilities our reality. We are Americans. There is nothing we can't achieve, when we all stand together. United by our dreams, and driven by the will to see them fulfilled.

Don't listen to anybody else that tells you the differently.

The CRAZIEST Baltimore Key Bridge Collapse Theory Yet???
RADIO

The CRAZIEST Baltimore Key Bridge Collapse Theory Yet???

It didn’t take long for people to cry foul when a cargo ship crashed into Baltimore’s Francis Scott Key Bridge and knocked it down. But while there’s still no hard evidence of a cyberattack or terrorism, Glenn, Pat, and Stu have another … weirder … theory: Has anyone seen Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg lately? Because there have been A LOT of transportation-related tragedies under his watch …

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So the bridge, Stu has a theory on this -- this Baltimore bridge collapse.

STU: I do not. I would not say I have a theory at all. I'm just saying, look, it wouldn't make any sense for this to be a terrorist attack the way it happened. 1:30 in the morning. Like, why would you do it that way?

Maybe you would argue, it was some sort of a test run.

PAT: Or just to disrupt our infrastructure.

STU: I don't know. But it doesn't seem like it will be that serious, in that. These places are able to -- it doesn't seem like. Like all the reporting is, they're able to reroute to other ports.

I mean, it has to affect Baltimore pretty seriously. Obviously, traffic will be affected. If you're going for a major terrorist attack. First of all, 1:30 in the morning is a weird time for it. And, of course, the warnings from the ships and all these other things.

Beyond that, I'm looking at a broader picture here. And I'm -- again, I'm not saying this. What I want you to know, I'm not saying this.

PAT: Okay. What are you not saying?

STU: I'm not saying that Pete Buttigieg individually, is going to each one of these things and -- like unscrewing Boeing doors before the plane takes off. I'm not saying he's doing that.

I'm not saying he's loosening tires off of planes. I'm not saying that. That would be incredibly impossible. What I am saying, should we check his house, to see if he has scuba gears. Let's check it out. Why not go into his garage and see, Pat. Maybe he has a couple of -- you know, a couple of -- I don't know.

Rubber suits. That might be for other use. I'm just saying, can we at least check? We should at least know that.

PAT: Maybe he has a Phillips screwdriver or something.

STU: Right. Does he have -- it would just be interesting to know, what type of --

PAT: It would. Yeah.

STU: Underwater diving gear, the man owns. Like, does he happen to have a mini submarine in his garage? That would be something we should know.

PAT: That would be weird.

GLENN: First of all. First of all.

As I said, they always return to the crazy -- the scene of the crime.

So he never shows up after one of these.

He disappears after this.

STU: Yes.

GLENN: Have I noticed that?

We never hear him talking about anything transportation. Have you heard him actually, you know, standing in front of a United airliner going, we're going to shut this thing down, until we figure out why the United Airlines keeps losing doors and wheels. And I heard the steering wheel or something, the other day.

STU: Right.

GLENN: Why? Where is he on that?

So he never shows up at the scene of the crime. So that immediately goes. It's also way too much work for him.

PAT: It's true.

GLENN: He would have to learn things, like how to put the mask on. Which I think is beyond his capability. You know, how do I -- the scuba gear goes where exactly. And you don't want to use it after him. After he tries it. I'm just saying, I don't know.

STU: I think, look, there are a lot of reasons to believe that Pete Buttigieg isn't responsible for each one of these things. It would be insane. It would be a crazy development, by all accounts.

GLENN: Yes, it would. Right.

STU: However, how else do we explain this?

PAT: It would be unprecedented, if it were our transportation secretary.

STU: I would agree, you be precedented.

PAT: Never in history, has a transportation secretary sabotaged so much transportation.

STU: Right.

GLENN: Can we look at the bright side, however?

That would be more than any transportation secretary has done probably in the history of transportation. I never know what they do.

STU: This is a good point.

Who knows the name of any other transportation secretary.

Yet, we all --

GLENN: You have chow.

STU: Yeah, Chow was one. And the other one that popped into my head was LaHood. Because back in the day. But not for, hey, he's screwing up all of our infrastructure.

It was like, oh, well, he's sort of a notable figure that occasionally comes up in policy conversations. This guy has overseen disaster movie sequel, after disaster movie sequels since he has this job.

We have American institutions. Boeing is just like, eh, we can't keep planes in the air anymore.

Like, what?

Why? Why has all of this happened under his watch. It's like he's trying. It's like he's Michelman. He's tied to -- we now have more footage to show in disaster movies, because of this guy. Allegedly. I mean, I don't think he is intentionally derailing trains across the country.

It does seem weird, that ever since -- we should look to see if he has a wedge or tools that would allow him to do it.

GLENN: You know, I would say the fact that everything is being derailed, would lead me to believe, that it's not one man.

STU: It's probably not. It's probably not.

GLENN: This is not bad -- the entire -- the entire country is going into a bridge abutment.

STU: That's true. That's true.

PAT: It would explain why we never see him though. Because he's always off skulking into one of these places, loosening some bolt.

STU: It's probably not him loosening bolts. It's probably not. Probably not.

PAT: Probably not.

STU: But wouldn't it be easy to rule it out. Let's toss that -- let's toss the individual possibility, that Pete Buttigieg is flying around the country, disabling our infrastructure.

Let's just rule that one out. It has to be easy to rule out.

PAT: I would feel a lot better. You know, I would. Even though, I understand, it's a --

GLENN: Call his husband. And find out, was he in bed with you, last night, or the night before, when this thing hit the bridge abutment. Just find out.

STU: Just find out. It's an easy one to rule out.

PAT: It did.

STU: Until we rule it out. He should go back on maternity leave.

That's all I'm saying. He shouldn't be employed on this job, as if it's a possibility.

GLENN: Oh, I see what this is. You just want him out as the transportation secretary. You are such a bad man.

PAT: Could that be it?

GLENN: Is it homophobia? Is that what's happening?

STU: It's definitely not homophobia. He can be as gay as he would like to be, while on paternity leave. In fact, I would encourage it. It would be almost odd if he wasn't, right?

But like, what I'm saying is, ever since this guy took this job, we have done show after show after show, out of --

PAT: About disasters.

STU: About transportation infrastructure collapse. What is happening -- like, why not just, either he's individually doing it himself.

Or maybe another possibility, is everything this man touches, gets destroyed like he's Ivan Drago. Maybe that's the thing.

GLENN: I have to tell you. I don't even know if he -- I think this is just -- this is just now four years of absolute incompetence.

The companies are all being distracted. From what they have to do. So they can meet new governmental mandates on bullcrap that mean nothing to any of us.

And this guy. This guy, I don't think he knows what his job is. I really don't.

STU: He seems to be terrible at it.

GLENN: Do you? This has and whenever he's involved in something, tragedies ensue. Again, we talk about these problems. With the border.

I don't know. What do you do? You have to make sure you're closing the border to illegal immigration. Before you're worrying about the immigrants that already cross.

You have to stop the flow. There's a leak. You have to stop the leak. Turn the water off. Then fix. With this. Shouldn't we turn the water off here?

Get this guy away from this thing first.

And then we'll figure out some of the other tails.

Whatever he's bringing to the table, is weighing down the table, and the table is collapsing. Can we do something about it?

GLENN: This is the best entertaining conspiracy theory, that I've heard in the last 24 hours. This is good. This is good.

STU: I don't think -- it would be absurd to picture Pete bite judge in a scuba outfit.

I mean, like, if somebody were to Photoshop that, and give it to us, and put it on Twitter.

That would be silly.

PAT: Irresponsible. Irresponsible.

STU: Irresponsible. He can't possibly do it. Let's confirm he doesn't have the equipment to make it possible.

Let's rule it out now!

GLENN: Have we seen close-up pictures of the American Airlines flight. When it was taking off, losing the tire. Was there a parachute after? Was he up in the wheel of -- as they took off?

Just, you know, like one of those poor Afghans, that were just like, I'm going to go to America. And he's like, wait. I'm not done.

I'll unloose the bolts here. I would like to see a close-up. Was he driving a tanker up Dr. Truck, last June 11th, and left it on I-95, in Philadelphia.

That bridge. When that caught fire.

PAT: Let's see who the driver was.

STU: Let's look. If you have the CCTV footage. You see a little guy scampering from the bridge right after. I would like to know, who is that?

Is that a leprechaun, or is that Pete Buttigieg? I want to know who that is. These are basic questions, we can ask, honestly.

And my goal here is to exonerate Pete Buttigieg.

PAT: Clear! Clear the air.

STU: That's my goal.

GLENN: Well, I don't think -- before you said this, I don't think Pete Buttigieg came up as a suspect.

STU: Hell. It would be so outlandish, right?

PAT: People were afraid to say it. Thank you.

STU: It was.

GLENN: Is that what it was?

PAT: We're saying what everybody was thinking, stupidly.

STU: But other people would say --

GLENN: As Jon Stewart said, saying the things that nobody is thinking. That's what he's doing now.

STU: Right. It could be. It could be. But then other people might say, it's the most logical explanation, that he's just going around and doing it himself. Why else would all of this happen. And that's why I just want to exonerate him. And let him get back to his wonderful family.

PAT: Real considerate of you.

STU: Yeah. And I think too, we should consider. For this particular role, whether paternity leave should only happen after the birth of a child. Maybe it should be like a constant thing.

Like a, whenever you need it, you take it.
Just go ahead. Go on leave. Right now. And maybe take eight to 12 years off.

GLENN: That would be good. Okay.

STU: Just in case, you know.

GLENN: Okay.

STU: These are just possibilities.

GLENN: Pat, thanks for standing and watching the whole thing burn with me. It's been fun.

"I Was Probably Drunk": Alex Jones APOLOGIZES for Calling Glenn Beck a CIA Agent
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"I Was Probably Drunk": Alex Jones APOLOGIZES for Calling Glenn Beck a CIA Agent

Years ago, InfoWars host Alex Jones accused Glenn Beck of being a CIA agent, and it caused some serious consequences. But in a recent BlazeTV exclusive interview on Pat Gray Unleashed, Alex apologized for the incident, admitting, “I was probably drunk when I said that,” and thanking Glenn for his work over the years exposing the global elites’ plans. Glenn responds to Alex’s apology and reveals the "peace offering" he gave Alex the last time they spoke about their past disagreements.

What We Currently Know About the Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse in Baltimore
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What We Currently Know About the Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse in Baltimore

A cargo ship that lost power has crashed into the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore Harbor, causing the entire bridge to collapse. Thankfully, traffic on the bridge was reportedly stopped before the crash. But the incident has many people asking: was this an accident or sabotage? Former assistant Treasury Secretary Monica Crowley, who helped spread the word of the incident, joins the Glenn Beck Program to discuss what we currently know as the search and rescue operation continues.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: One of my favorites Monica Crowley is with us. She's a former assistant Treasury secretary. My gosh, Monica, how have they trashed that Treasury? They are just looting it like crazy. Anyway, I saw Monica, you post something this morning, and I couldn't believe my eyes. Can you tell us what happened?

MONICA: Yeah. Good morning, Glenn great to be here like always. America is waking up to real tragedy this morning. The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore Harbor, it's a massive span. And for those of us who live in the northeast, Glenn, I can tell you, I have crossed that bridge many a time, going from New York to Washington, and back, right?

GLENN: Oh, I have too.

MONICA: It is a major, major artery in the northeast. And at about 1:30 a.m. Eastern Time this morning, a cargo ship was approaching the bridge. And the video that I posted, which is now everywhere on social media.

GLENN: We're watching it right now.

MONICA: Yes. And it's all over TV as well.

GLENN: Go ahead. Yeah.

MONICA: It is a massive cargo ship. And it's under a flag, so the ship itself is registered in Singapore. And you can see in the video, that it approaches at Scott Key Bridge, and it loses power, Glenn, twice.

Not once, but twice in the moments leading up to its approach to the bridge.

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

MONICA: And so, yeah. It -- it -- you can see in the video, it loses power twice. It regains power, but by that moment, Glenn. It's too late. And they can't get away from one of the massive lanes supporting bridge. And the cargo ship goes right into the piling. And the entire bridge collapses like a house of cards. just folds in on itself, right into Baltimore harbor.

GLENN: You know, I noticed, because I watched this video, a couple of times, after you posted it.

And I couldn't believe it was like toothpicks falling apart. When they had -- when you first start watching it. You'll see, the traffic is pretty steady on the bridge.

And thank God, right at the time it collapses, not a lot of cars, if any, were on the bridge. Do you know if there were cars on the bridge?

MONICA: Well, thankfully, if there's any silver lining on this horror show, Glenn, it is 1:30 in the morning. So it's relatively light traffic.

And you can see headlights of cars going both ways. And the moments the cargo ship, hits the bridge.

It looks like very few cars, if any, are on the bridge.

What we're hearing this morning, pardon me. What we're hearing is that two people have already been rescued, God bless. There are at least seven people missing that we know about.

So there is a very active search-and-rescue going on. The Coast Guard is out there. The National Transportation Safety Board is on site. The Navy is there. Navy divers are in the water, and have been there for hours.

And so we hope and pray that any victims that fell into the water in their automobiles and in their trucks, there's at least one semi that we know of, that collapsed into the water with the bridge. Glenn, so we hope and pray, that all of these people, who were part of this unfortunate accident. And at least now, it does look like an accident. And we will wait for the investigation. But we hope and pray that everybody will be rescued, and will be okay.

GLENN: So, Monica, do we know anything about the ship.

Because the first thought is. The power goes out. Then it comes back on. And the poor captain, man, you can see him just trying to turn that ship as fast as he can, when the power goes on. Then it goes out again.

Do we know?

My first thought is, is this some sort of a -- you know, a -- some sort of an attack with -- on electronics. Was there -- is there -- has anybody else thought of that? Or is it just me and my sick, twisted paranoia, I guess?

MONICA: Well, I think that too, Glenn. And we will have to wait for a thorough investigation here, in a lot of different areas.

There's one report that I saw this morning, that indicated that the crew, and apparently there was one pilot and two captains on board. And, of course, an additional crew, which you would expect for a vessel of this size and magnitude, under an international flag. Again, Singapore. And there is one report this morning, that indicates that the crew alerted the Maryland Department of Transportation when they were leaving the port, that they had lost control of the vessel. And again, I don't know how reliable this report is. But it's up on the New York Post website this morning. So, again, I don't know if that report has been vetted. But, you know, most of these vessels now, are under electronic control. Not unlike some of our voting systems. And might very well be -- might very well be open to hacking by nefarious players here.

So, again, we will to have wait and see. I mean, sometimes the cigar is just a cigar. And accidents unfortunately do happen.

GLENN: Right. And I hope that's the case. But with all the cyber terror that is predicted, I just -- you know, I know we're all on high alert for that.

Monica, thank you very much for reporting and calling in. I appreciate it. God bless.

MONICA: Oh, it's my great pleasure, Glenn. Thank you.

GLENN: So we have an update on the bridge collapse. The Fort McHenry Bridge. Very important bridge and port in Baltimore.

Here's the update that is pretty remarkable.

STU: Yeah. Apparently, the ship was able to issue a mayday, and say they were experiencing a power issue. And this enabled transportation officials to halt traffic on the bridge, at the last second.

I mean, if you watch the footage, you can see the cars crossing the bridge as normal, up until the very last second. And all of a sudden, they just stop. And you just kind of assumed, it was a break in traffic.

But, apparently, they knew something was wrong, and were able to stop it. I mean, they must have saved dozens of lives by doing that. So that's an incredible part of the story.

GLENN: These -- these -- yeah. These guys are heroes.

If you're watching TheBlaze right now, we're showing you the bridge collapse. It is absolutely unbelievable.

And you can see how the boat is trying to turn, as sharply as they can. And then the lights -- the lights come back on. They try to steer it away. And then it goes out, at the second time. And it's too late, and the whole thing collapses. It's remarkable.

Jeez. And they've now -- that port is closed. I'm not saying that this is by any stretch of the imagination, other than it reminds me of, the cyber attack on -- I think it was a Navy ship, wasn't it?

That was in the South China Sea. I'm pulling this -- I'm sorry. I have CRC. Can't remember crap.

But it was in the South China Sea. And it -- it lost control. And it made a circle.

And then rammed right into an oil tanker. Clearly controlled by somebody else.

I'm not saying this -- that's what this is. This is probably just mechanical error.

But we have to start thinking about those kinds of things now. Because they're all possible.