RADIOApril 23, 2018

Ben Shapiro: Society is rejecting objective truth as a ‘white, patriarchal norm’

Can a society that rejects science, reason and rationality survive?

Ben Shapiro joined Glenn on today’s show to talk about postmodernism and the dangers of a world where everything is subjective.

BEN SHAPIRO to Trump: If you’re watching CNN and they have happy faces on, do this

When people decided to make their own values, they didn’t realize that science and reason would be thrown out as objective truths as well. In today’s progressive age, even science is seen as a “white heterosexual, patriarchal” view of the universe.

But in the real world, subjectivity doesn’t make for good science or a solid business plan. Shapiro pointed out that a company like Google, which fired engineer James Damore over a memo on men and women in the workplace, may purport to believe in these progressive ideas … but if Google actually lived by them, “it would be out of business in 5 minutes.”

This article provided courtesy of TheBlaze.

GLENN: Joined by Ben Shapiro, who is the editor-in-chief of -- of The Daily Wire. Also, the most-listened to conservative podcast in the world.

Welcome, Ben Shapiro.

BEN: Hey. Good to see you.

GLENN: How are you? So what books would you like to ban today?

BEN: Wow. I mean, after that list, I don't know what's left.

GLENN: Yeah, I know.

BEN: I mean, I got to go with the children's books since I'm separating those in the middle of the night.

GLENN: You go to these college campuses all the time. And you speak. When I went to college -- I spent more time in the parking lot than in the actual classroom. But you were taught how to think. How to find answers.

I mean, I was -- the professor that I learned so much from, I had no idea where he stood on any issue. Because he would argue so hard on one side. And then flip it around and argue on the other side. And you believed both of them.

BEN: Uh-huh.

GLENN: Nobody is doing that anymore. In fact, that's frowned upon.

BEN: Yeah, that's usually reserved for law school. Really. Like, when you go to law school, that's what they say. They're going to teach you how to think like a lawyer. But when you're in undergrad, they don't bother with that anymore. They're teaching you how to think, but it's how they want you to think. So they're teaching you what to think, more than how to think.

GLENN: So what are you seeing when you go to college campuses?

BEN: I think there's a lot of pent-up energy. I think there's a lot of pent-up anger. Because I think people there are largely bored. I think there's a reason that if you show up on a Wednesday night to hear me talk, in the middle of the week, you know, in the middle of the brutal cold and a thousand people show up -- and I don't think it's because I'm that great a speaker. I mean, I'm fine. But I think it has more to do with the fact that there is some hole that's being left intellectually on these campuses.

And anyone who even attempts to fill that hole on campuses is being treated with a certain amount and reverence, simply because the colleges have left the field wide open. You don't even have to be that good at this stuff, in order to be seen as somebody who has something valuable to say, I think.

GLENN: You're pretty good at this stuff.

BEN: You're allowed to say it. I'm not.

GLENN: Yeah. You're pretty good at this stuff. You and Jordan Peterson are probably the best thinkers, I think on the right, right now.

BEN: Well, thanks. That's high compliment because Jordan is fantastic.

GLENN: Yeah. Jordan is amazing.

And he's having the same kind of success that you are, where he's -- and he's a guy who wasn't looking for it.

BEN: Right. Right. That's one of the things -- it's really fascinating. There's a whole group of people who have really come to prominence in the last three or four years. They're really disparate politically. You're talking about people like Jordan Peterson or Sam Harris or Brett Weinstein. Or me. And all these people disagree with each other on a huge variety of matters. But there's two things they seem to have in common: One is that they actually purport to care about data. And they won't just dismiss data, if it disagrees with their position. And the other is that they seem to be willing to say no to things.

And there's something that I have started terming the Bartleby effect. Which is, there's this short story by Herman Melville called the Bartleby, the Scrivener.

GLENN: I'm not sure if that's on the list -- the approved list from GQ.

BEN: Yeah, I'm not sure either. But the short story is about this guy who is -- he's a scribe at a Wall Street law firm. And one day his bosses come in and they ask him to do something. He says, I prefer not to. And they don't know what to do with him because he's not actively saying no, but he's not saying yes. He just says, I prefer not to.

They leave him alone. Eventually, after saying, I'd prefer not to, to everything, he ends up dying basically alone and in prison.

But the purpose of the story is to say that society cannot tolerate people who refuse to kind of go along to get along. Well, that's true. But if you look at all the people who have risen to prominence, people like Jordan, Jordan rose to prominence not based on his latest book -- which is actually a pretty late development.

He rose to prominence because in Canada, there's Bill C-16, which essentially mandated that you use transgender pronouns.

And Jordan, a couple of years ago, said, I'm not doing that. That doesn't accord with the realities of psychological development. So I'm just not going to do that.

And people lost their minds. And suddenly, he was this major figure in Canada just for saying no. Sam Harris has become a major figure because he was on Bill Maher's show, and he said, Islam might be more dangerous religion as a general matter than Christianity.

Because the facts bear out that there are more violent Muslims worldwide than violent Christians. And he was run out on the rail by the left. Suddenly, he had this new following, that people were saying, listen, this guy's willing to undergo a certain amount of pressure, in order to say what he wants to say.

For Brett Weinstein, it was the same thing. So saying no, I think gives a lot of college students a feeling. Like, if you're willing to say no and take a risk to say no, then you must have some sort of rooted, eternal values to which you are subject. And this means that you have some sort of gloss on life that is more than what my professors are saying is possible out there.

STU: But it's not just saying no. It's saying no because of logic and reason.

GLENN: Right.

STU: You know, that's why everybody is famous now, of saying no.

No. I'm not male or female.

GLENN: Right.

STU: That's not the same. And it's -- and we are -- have disconnected from all logic, all reason, all science.

BEN: Yes.

GLENN: And just -- and because everybody is just saying, no, well, I don't have to take that. I have different facts.

BEN: It's a really fascinating development to watch, as all these people on the left, who proclaim that they were so pro-science are throwing people out of the ranks.

Like, I don't know if you saw this conversation between Sam Harris and Ezra Klein. Sam Harris is on the left. I mean, Sam is a real Democrat. And Ezra Klein went on his show and called Sam Harris a racist because Sam Harris looked at actual data about IQ differentiation among groups.

He actually read Charles Murray's book and had Charles Murray on his program. And said, listen, Charles Murray is not attributing all of this to biology, but there's some pretty clear evidence that there's at least a biological component to IQ. And Ezra Klein went on Sam Harris' show, and without any data at all, called him a racist. That's because there's this newfangled philosophy that says that all reality is subjective. All reality is what you feel about the reality.

And so science is not subjective. Science is what science is. And that means scientists are surprised when they find themselves out on their ear for the first time.

GLENN: Well, I don't think people really took postmodernism really seriously.

BEN: Yep.

GLENN: And that's what -- we are living in the post-modern world. And if you don't know what postmodernism is -- modern -- the modern lifestyle is the age of reason. Enlightenment. The idea that we take science and facts and we look at all of it. That was modern thinking. We've now thrown that away. We're postmodernism. And instead of now being ruled by a church, we're ruled by some other religious doctrine. I just don't know what it is.

BEN: Yes.

GLENN: But it is a religious -- it's dogma.

BEN: So I'm writing a book about this right now. And I think what's happened here is the culmination of essentially a 300-year process, where what originally happened was, there was -- postmodernism is the rejection of values on behalf the subjective.

So where it makes a certain amount of sense, where people logically resonate to postmodernism is they say postmodernism applies when it comes to morality. That your morality is not objective. Right? We all have our own morality. That life is a series of power political struggles. And what you say as morality, you're only saying that, because it benefits you to say that that's morality. And so a lot of people buy into that.

Well, that though was an outgrowth of the rejection of postmodern -- postmodern value rejection was an outgrowth of the rejection of religion. The idea was, if there's no objective religion out there, then what defines values in here?

And so people said, okay. Fine. Well, we can deal with the postmodern values struggle. Because we'll make our own values. We'll make our own value systems. But they forgot that science is a value. Reason is a value. Rationality is a value.

And so a lot of the folks who were very reasonable and very interested in reason, enlightenment thinkers, were some of the biggest people promoting postmodern values. And then they were surprised when -- when the Frankenstein monster turned on its master. All of a sudden, all these people who are promoting postmodern values said, well, science is a value too. So why exactly should we take science seriously?

If you're saying that reason and rationality is the highest values, but you're only saying that because you're a reasonable, rational, intelligent person. You're only saying that because of your high IQ. You're only saying that because you benefit from the scientific consensus.

Like, there are papers that are now being written on the postmodern left saying things like, science is a creation of the white male, heterosexual patriarchy.

I mean, there was this fascinating thing. I talked to Jordan about this other day. This Google memo that came out, from -- that was revealed in the James Damore lawsuit against Google, where they put out a paper saying, white values versus non-white values.

And among white values were things like rationality. Things like winning and losing. Things like scientific progress. These things were actually listed as white views of the universe, as opposed to objective views of the universe. What I said about it on my show is that, if Google lived by the values that it purports to hate, it would be out of business in five minutes, obviously, right? Google bases its own business on all of these values that it purports to think are white, heterosexual, patriarchal norms. But that's the value system that has built the West. And we're rejecting that now.

Because we thought that we could separate religion from science. And that that break could be clean. And instead, it turns out, that by rejecting religion, by rejecting the idea that there's an objective truth about morality in the world, we're also going to reject the idea of objective truths generally.

And you see some people struggling to put that back together. I'm struggling to put that back together. I think Jordan is struggling to put that back together. I think there are people like Steven Pinker or like Sam -- Sam Harris, who are trying to keep the religion out of it. And trying to restore the Enlightenment vision of science. But I'm not sure how can you do that.

GLENN: It doesn't work.

BEN: I'm not sure how you can remove the base of the science.

There's this weird idea -- you were saying this earlier. You know, there's this weird idea that history began today.

Well, a lot of Enlightenment advocates think that history began in 1750. That's when history began. There's no history to science. That science started in 1750. That good thought began in 1750. There's a rooted philosophy of the West that goes all the way back to Sinai and that carries forward through the sermon on the mount, and then all the way forward, through Lot.

GLENN: There is no way you can understand the West without understanding the Bible.

You don't have to believe --

BEN: This is right.

GLENN: -- in the angels and the magic tricks and the fire and all of that. You don't have to. But you do have to read it and go, what is this trying to teach, and how did this form what we have?

BEN: Exactly.

GLENN: And everybody is trying to throw that out.

Without that, you've completely taken all the cornerstones out. You've taken the cornerstone and all of the foundation of the house out. You've got nothing left.

BEN: This is right. I think the history of this 19th and 20th centuries are enough to prove this.

I mean, mass chaos and the bloody slaughter of an enormous portion of the globe, on the basis of rationality, should be enough to show you that rationality unmoored to some sort of higher value system is pretty dangerous stuff.

GLENN: Back with Ben Shapiro in a minute.

GLENN: Welcome back to the program. Joining us, Ben Shapiro.

STU: Glenn, I hope Ben is -- he understands what's happening in DC. With a very -- very interested guy in the DC city council. If you remember, his name is, let's see, Trayon White, and he initially talked about the big conspiracy that a lot of people are not discussing about how Jews are controlling the weather.

GLENN: Damn you. Notice Ben lives out here in Los Angeles. And it's beautiful all the time.

STU: It is.

GLENN: Coincidence, I don't think so.

STU: Do we have the initial clip of him driving in his car, watching like three snowflakes falling and blaming it on the Jews --

VOICE: It's just snowing out of nowhere this morning, man.

Y'all better pay attention to this climate control, man. This climate manipulation. And DC keep talking about we're a resilient city. And that's a model based off the Rothschild controlling the climate, to create natural disasters. They can pay for it on the cities. Be careful.

BEN: Wow.

GLENN: So the Rothschild. How deeply connected to the Rothschild, are you?

BEN: We really don't talk about this, except in our Friday night meetings. We really try to keep this under wraps. But I will say, the last time I traveled to Atlanta, I brought a tornado with me. Then that big snowstorm in DC was the next day because I traveled to DC.

GLENN: Holy cow. There it is. He has admitted it. Now, there's an update to this story, I don't know if, you know, Ben.

STU: Yeah, it's pretty exciting. I guess he was doing a tour to -- a little penance for his previous comments. And he went to the Holocaust museum. And, you know, this is going to turn out well obviously.

BEN: Oh, good. This is a sitcom here.

GLENN: He did not find the weather machine.

(laughter)

GLENN: He did not find it there.

STU: He did examine a picture of a girl walking through a crowd, surrounded by German soldiers. And the girl was wearing a sign. The sign said, I am a German girl and allowed myself to be defiled by a Jew.

White, this councilman, then asked the tour guide, are they protecting her?

Meaning, are the Germans, Nazi soldiers protecting this girl? No, the guide said. They're marching her through.

Marching through is protecting, White responded.

Of course, the guide pointed out they thought that maybe they were humiliating her.

Now, White then decided halfway through the tour to just bolt. He just leaves the tour and goes outside and waits outside on the street. Once he leaves, a member of his staff suggests that a picture of the Warsaw ghetto resembles a, quote, gated community. The rabbi doing the tour points out, yeah, I wouldn't call it a gated community, more like a prison.

So it's not going well for this particular gentleman.

GLENN: I want to get Ben's view as one of the most hated Jews in America, perhaps the world. I would like to get his view on this gated community and what I think was probably a condominium complex of Auschwitz. When we -- when we come back.

GLENN: So back with Ben Shapiro, who has been following Kanye West and Shania Twain for some strange reason.

BEN: They're both in the news.

GLENN: Yeah, I know.

BEN: Kanye came out with a bunch of kind of bizarrely conservative tweets. He tweeted his support for Candice Owens, the other day, who is a compatriot of Charlie Kirk over at Turning Point USA and a black woman who is a supporter of Trump. Then he tweeted also something about how self-victimization is a disease. And all these conservatives are like, oh, my God. Kanye is on our side, man. Kanye is here.

GLENN: I don't know if I want Kanye on our side.

BEN: So this is my take.

GLENN: Can we remember who Kanye is.

BEN: It's so amazing that we on the right have this scorn for the people on the left. Because we're like, look at how they worship celebrity. Look at how they worship celebrity. First of all, Donald Trump is the president of the United States now. Also Kanye West is -- the only reason you care about what Kanye West thinks and he's just not muttering to himself on a corner somewhere, is because he's a big celebrity.

And this bizarre notion that somebody whom the cameras have focused in on has been conferred with a greater-than-average wisdom is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

As someone who grew up in Hollywood and knows a lot of people the cameras have focused in on, let me just say the folks in the music industry, the folks in Hollywood, they don't know anything. There are a few writers who are somewhat smart. You're talking about these musicians. You're talking about the actors.

GLENN: Oh, come on. Ben, I don't believe that at all.

Of course, they're dolts. A lot of them are just dolts. A lot -- I think there are a lot of people in powerful or public positions, that are as dumb as the city councilmen in Washington, DC.

BEN: Oh, yeah. No question.

GLENN: Have no idea. Never read a book. Don't know history. Have no idea what they're talking about.

BEN: Keith Ellison was almost the head of the DNC. And I'm not sure he's wildly smarter than Trayon White. They both give money, apparently, to the same nation of Islam event. So it's one of the greatest disappointments of life, is Adam Corolla, is that when you're a kid, you look around. You look at the adults. You see they all have houses. And they have cars. And they have nice stuff, and they can do what they want at night. And it looks great. And you figure, they must be so smart. I mean, they've got all these nice things. They've got houses and cars.

And then you grow up and you realize, all the same people who are stupid when you're a kid, they're still stupid when you're adults.

And so that means they all have houses and cars too. And that's not the same thing -- there's a guy who Josh Groban did one of the great routines ever. If you haven't seen it, go to YouTube and look it up. It's so funny. It's him singing the tweets of Kanye west.

And it's him singing things like, fur pillows are hard to sleep on. And it's -- how he wants a giant fish tank. He's looking for a giant dancing fish tank. The same guy who is tweeting about how he needs a giant dancing fish tank is the same guy tweeting deep thoughts about self-realization.

And we're like, yeah, man. Because we're so hungry for any sort of legitimacy on the right. We are so hungry for anyone who is famous, to say we're not the worst people in the world and we're not crazy.

And, particularly, if that person happens to be a minority like Kanye, that we are just willing to glom on to anything. It's an amazing thing.

GLENN: So how do we fare? How do we get through this?

BEN: Do we?

GLENN: Do we, really?

BEN: I don't know. Again, I think we've lost so much of the idea that what validates us is the community that we live in or the God to whom we are subject. And instead, what validates us is a famous person saying something that makes us feel good about ourselves. And that's not a very good thing.

GLENN: So I have to tell you, I am -- I drove to the studios today. We're in Los Angeles. I drove to the studios today. And I turned on the radio. And I heard about a doctor talking about how she's doing regression therapy. But not just for this time line. But all of your alternative time lines.

BEN: Whoa.

GLENN: Yeah. So I don't know if she uses the flux capacitor to do that, I don't know how that works.

But I heard that, and at the top of my lungs, alone in the car today, how does anyone live here? How do you live here?

It's this weird thing that there is this little group of --

BEN: Yes. It's pretty alive intellectually. Right? Peter Thiel just moved down here, from San José. Jordan Peterson is out here a lot. Dave Rubin is out here. Dennis Prager is out here. The Claremont Institute is out here. There's a lot out here actually. And I think one of the reasons is, because when you're constantly balancing off the crazy of the other side, it is intellectually stimulating. I mean, you actually had to hear about that crazy regression thing, and now you can use it on the air. I mean, if you're back home now, you would be maybe talking about normal stuff on the radio.

GLENN: No, I wouldn't be talking about normal stuff, but I wouldn't be talking about Texas.

BEN: Right. Exactly. That's what I mean. If you're tuning into the radio on your way into the station, it wouldn't be talking about regression therapy.

GLENN: No.

BEN: The thing is that all of the crazy that's happening in LA, all the crazy that's happening in San Francisco, there are roots to that too. So we on the right tend to think of that as being just the latest craze, the latest fad. But there are some pretty pagan roots to all this. And I think what's really going on right now, is a battle between Judeo-Christian monotheism a reversion to a certain level of paganism. Because that's just witchcraft, right? I mean, regression therapy for alternative time lines, that's just witchcraft kind of stuff.

I'm not saying we should burden you or anything. But I am saying that --

GLENN: It is.

BEN: -- you guaranteeing me that you'll make my life better by talking about a life that I have never lived, is a form of you trying to guarantee a level of control in the universe to human beings. That human beings simply do not have over the universe. And that we can't exercise over the universe.

GLENN: I wrote a book. A novel, I don't know, eight years ago or so, called the Eye of Moloch. And it's Biblical in its nature.

Because if you look at -- if you look at how people were worshiping and -- and who Moloch is, he -- he wants you to have, you know, orgies. Crazy sex. Do whatever you want.

BEN: Yep.

GLENN: Destroy everything. And then sacrifice the baby of -- of that union. I mean, we're worshiping Moloch. We just don't know it.

BEN: I think that's right. It's under the guise of pantheism, which sounds a whole lot nicer. And it's also being concealed by the fact that we're still living -- your car runs out of gas, and you're running on the fumes. We're still living on the fumes of the Judeo-Christian value system.

So all the same people in Hollywood, who are promoting these sorts of values, same people who will use that regression technique, most of them are married. Most of them have kids. Most of them still have not been divorced. Right? The fact is, we see the high-profile divorces in Hollywood. But the truth is, most of the people who live in Hollywood are fairly normal human beings, or at least they live fairly normal lifestyles.

This is Charles Murray's point in Coming Apart, right? He says that upper-class white folks who live on the coast and are the, quote, unquote, thought leaders about single motherhood. They don't live those lifestyles. They're not single mothers. They're not living impoverished lifestyles. They're basically doing what everybody else does, with maybe the exception of going to church.

So they're living off the fumes of this Judeo-Christian history. But they're promoting this new lifestyle to a bunch of people, who are being suckered by it. Because they think, oh, this is what the successful people do.

What the successful people do is they're all members of sex cults. And out here in LA, that's really not what's going on. The face they put forward to the world is everyone is depraved because we're all experimenting and this is our thing.

But you the truth is that I find it a high point of amusement that all of the people who are so open about their promiscuity -- you know, the starlets who are so open about their promiscuity when they're 17, 18 years old. By the time they're 30, they're settling down, they're married. They have kids. Right?

They're living the same lifestyle as somebody living out in Oklahoma and Texas. They just won't tell you that. Right? The stuff that the media want to focus on, the stuff they want you to focus on is the sexy stuff. The stuff when they're 19. They're dancing naked with members of the same sex.

That's the -- by the time when they're 30 -- look at Miley Cyrus' new videos. And they basically look like Shania Twain videos. Right? All of a sudden, she's doing videos on the beach with her boyfriend. Looks like they're going to settle down. Looks like they're going to have kids. Because it turns out that the human drive for solidity and the human drive for some sort of value system is stronger even than the human drive for depravity or at least it is when you realize you're going to die at some point and depravity is going to catch up with you.

GLENN: Yeah, talk to me about Shania Twain. Your opinion on Shania Twain, a Canadian. Asked who she would have voted for. So she couldn't vote. What a ridiculous question to even ask her. She shouldn't have answered the question.

But the way she answered the question was, based on the values of the people who voted for him, which is her audience --

BEN: Right.

GLENN: -- I would say I would have probably voted for Donald Trump.

BEN: Right.

And now she's apologized in a long Twitter storm apology about, you know, I'm not a racist. I'm not a sexist. I don't believe in a lot of the same things that President Trump does. I was just trying to answer the question. But really I shouldn't have spoken out. Really?

First of all, this may be the most Canadian thing ever. Like, speaking out about an election that you couldn't take part, and then apologizing for a vote you could never cast. That's pretty Canadian.

GLENN: Michael Buble, I'm in New York -- and I walk into a hotel lobby. Michael is there. He sees me. He calls across the lobby. It's like 1 o'clock in the morning. He's like, Glenn! I turn around. I walk up. And he's like, I want you to know. I was just in a fist fight over you.

I said, what?

He said, I was at a hockey game someplace in Canada. And somebody said, I can't believe you're friends with Glenn Beck, and you go on the air with Glenn Beck.

And he's like, dude, he's a nice guy.

His politics?

We're Canadian. Why do you care about his politics?

And he said, he actually -- the guy threw a blow. They were throwing punches.

BEN: First of all, I want to see Michael Buble in a fight. I'll bet --

GLENN: I'll bet he's good.

BEN: Shockingly good. That's the only time he loosens the tie completely. Takes off the skinny tie, unbuttons that top button, just goes to work.

Yeah, I think that it is incredible. The level of intellectual bullying to which people are being subjected at this point. Where, you even say you voted for Trump or you say, hey, I support some of the things that Trump is doing.

The fact that so many people -- this goes to my generalized theory of the media. Everybody is seeing -- we live -- so to go back to scientific models, we live in a pre-Copernican era, as far as the media is concerned. They think that the world revolves around Donald Trump. Right? Donald Trump is the center of the universe, and everything revolves around Donald Trump.

This is a lie. The world revolves around the media. Right? The media has decided Donald Trump is the sun in this universe. But the sun and the universe are the media.

That's why Donald Trump is president right now. Is because the media cares so much about Donald Trump. So the fact that people are even asking Shania Twain about Donald Trump is because the media cares so much about Trump.

It's not Trump who is asking Shania Twain about Trump. It's the media asking Shania Twain about Trump, because Trump is the only thing that matters in the universe.

Because to the media, he is the only thing that matters in the universe.

GLENN: How long do you think the media has? Bill O'Reilly has said to me, the media is on its last legs.

BEN: You know, I think that they still have so much power, especially through the reinstitution of gatekeeping in the social media. That, I'm more skeptical than that.

I remember after 2004, after Bush won reelection, the line from the right was, well, the old media is dead. Right? We just defeated the old media. If the old media had its way, John Kerry would have been reelected.

That was 14 years ago. And they're still going, and they're still having a pretty major impact.

GLENN: So how do -- with the new gate keeping -- do you know who Edwin Black is?

BEN: Yeah, yeah.

GLENN: Okay. Had Edwin Black on last week. Fascinating. Need to talk to him about his theory of analytical ghettos.

STU: Algorithmic ghettos.

GLENN: Sorry. Algorithmic ghettos. And he said, we're all being -- we're all being put in a ghetto. And it's just an algorithm that's doing it this time. But the walls are being built.

How do businesses like The Daily Wire, TheBlaze, your voice, my voice, how do we stay on the other side of the wall?

BEN: So I think it's really a matter of, there will have to be new neutral platforms that are built. And I think people will find them.

So the fact that my podcast is so popular, is not because iTunes favors my podcast. Right? It's because people can go to a variety of different podcasting sources and seek it out, which is what they've done. Right? It was really more organic than anything else.

So I think people -- people still want to hear different perspectives. If they try to reinstall the gates, I think they'll find there are a lot of people that will want to tear those walls down again.

And it's going to take a while. It's going to take a while for that to happen. Because, again, it took Facebook ten years to build the sort of dominance. Fifteen years to build this sort of dominance. But I think they are fighting a losing battle. But it's going to take a little more time than I think people think it's going to take.

GLENN: Yeah. Ben Shapiro from The Daily Wire, and the Ben Shapiro Show. You can watch him online at The Daily Wire. You can also get his podcast at iTunes, wherever else you go to find your podcast. Ben, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Ben will be joining us, I believe today. You coming on the show today? For TV. We're going to spend an hour. Talk a little bit about Los Angeles and what's happening here. And the -- the different -- the thinking that you don't hear about in Los Angeles.

Nobody is paying attention to it. But there is something happening here. We'll talk a little bit more about that tonight on TheBlaze at 5 o'clock.

RADIO

Bitcoin Halving EXPLAINED: Will This One Be DIFFERENT?

The Bitcoin halving is here, but what is this event and will it be different from previous ones? Glenn and Stu explain what a Bitcoin halving is, what usually happens, and why some believe there won’t be a spike in Bitcoin value this time around. But are they right? Or is it still a good time to buy?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Hey, today is Bitcoin. What they call the havoc. Right?

STU: Happy havoc day, to those who celebrate. Yes. Ten hours away from now, it looks like.

GLENN: It sounds like something that would maybe happen, in -- what was that?

That film happened in Norway. It was like that summer festival.

It's like the halving, and they're all gathered in some beautiful place.

STU: Yes. What was that movie?

What was that? It was very -- it was one I wouldn't watch.

GLENN: It was creepy.

It could have been called the Halving.

Or, you know, When Magic Goes Bad. David Copperfield stars in the Halving. Now, I have to cut this woman in half. And he can't put her back. Maybe I don't --

STU: That would be a good plot. That's not what the halving is for Bitcoin though.

GLENN: Yeah.

STU: And you've seen the price go up. There's been various reasons for that over the past year.

The ETFs. Meaning a lot of money is flowing into Bitcoin for the first time, really. That is a big catalyst of it.

The other is the halving, which happens, what? Every four years.

You don't know exactly what will happen. As they get closer and closer, they can specify.

And it will be today, at some point. About ten hours from now.

GLENN: And what does it mean exactly?

STU: Basically, when Bitcoin started. You have to have miners with, who are going to mine the Bitcoin to kind of bring it into availability for everybody.

GLENN: And you knew this would involve minors.

STU: No, it's not like Jeffrey Epstein. Think of a coal miner, except digitally.

GLENN: Different kind of miner. Okay. All right. What are they wearing? Are they wearing pants?

STU: That's not important. That's not important. By the way, Bitcoin miners know they're not wearing pants. They're in their underwear in their mother's basement. At least that's how it started. It was people in their underwear in their mom's basement, basically. And they were mining tons and tons of Bitcoin.

Now, remember, Bitcoin, there will only ever be 21 million of them. They are sort of -- think of them being mined. They are slowly mined, this time, I think we've mined, 2140. I don't know. It's a long way. But the basic idea with the halving, is every four years the reward for the miners gets cut in half. So the reason that's important, is the supply shrinks.

So maybe, you go back years and years and years. There's tons and tons of Bitcoin going on. Getting mined every single day.

Now, that number gets cut in half.

It was like each block, which is about every ten minutes.

Each one of those, it was six Bitcoin. Were freed into the world.

Like released into the world.

Now it's like three. It shrinks every four years. 1.75. 1.5. Or 1.25. It's not exact numbers.

GLENN: Until it gets to zero and there's no more Bitcoin left.

STU: And that's at 21 million Bitcoin. So you are now at -- I think it's six to three, roughly, in this particular halving. And the other part about the halving that has been important to note, is every time, there has been one, over the next six months, there has been a massive increase in the prophesy Bitcoin. Now, will this happen this time? No one knows. Past performance is not indicative of future results, we all know the disclaimer.

GLENN: We really do know that disclaimer. You may not know that disclaimer, but we do.
STU: Yes. Very true.

GLENN: The views of Stu are not necessarily those of the host.

STU: This is not financial advice.

Past performance is not indicative of future results. We don't know. We have also had a very large rise over the past year. So some people theorized, it's already built in.

Right?

This time, the rise we've already had, is basically part of what the halving would bring. However, when you look at the charts over the past three or four or five halvings. We've had massive increases. All those times, where all of a sudden, everyone around you, was talking about Bitcoin. Almost all those periods happened between six months.

Three to nine months after a halving.

GLENN: After. Not before.

STU: Well, you've seen some rises before. Generally, speaking, the real pop has happened after.

GLENN: This has been a real pop. This brought us back to where it was.

STU: There's a reason to believe, there's more here. Again, the last one was in 2020. Do you remember the 2021 phenomenon?

Then you had a drop back down. We are now down back to where we were, 2021.

GLENN: Making a case that somebody should buy, just a fraction of Bitcoin.

STU: Okay.

GLENN: I mean, you know, when it first started, and everybody was on board. Everybody was buying Bitcoin.

Because it was like, I have three Bitcoin. You know.

STU: Yep.

GLENN: And now, most people cannot afford to buy -- no.

STU: Of course not. Let me put it this way.

Right now, you would say, Bitcoin, $60,000. Basically, it's only for a millionaire.

Someone who wants tons of money, who will throw into a Bitcoin.

You might say only millionaires can afford that.

You might say something like that. Think of it this way, there are 24.5 million millionaires just in the United States.

GLENN: 24.5 million millionaires.

STU: Yes. Right. Right now, there will never be enough Bitcoin for every millionaire in the United States to own one. That doesn't include millionaires around the world. There are already too many millionaires for just millionaires to get one of these things.

GLENN: How much of it do you think is lost? Permanently, forever, lost.

STU: Permanently. Like, for example, we know the Satoshi's account. Which, the guy who invented Bitcoin. We don't know who it is. Group of people. Or if he's dead. I think they're dead. That's my opinion. He has an account with 1 million of it, in it, that's never moved.

So we basically know, unless this guy reveals himself somehow in the future. Which is not likely, that a million of them are lost. We also know, early on, people were mining these things and getting thousands and tens of thousands of them. And just losing -- turning their computer off. And not thinking they were worth anything.

The estimates are that probably something like a third of them are lost forever. So instead of 21 million, maybe it's 14 million. Maybe it's 15 million.

Somewhere in that vicinity. Now that they're valuable, people are not losing them, of course. At least as often. It's still happening every day.

People screw it up. They lose it.

They send it to the wrong account. That stuff still happens. But you're probably talking about, let's say 15 million, that actually will exist.

You have 24.5 millionaires in the United States. In the world, you have about 60 million millionaires. So if you split up all the Bitcoin in the world, just among millionaires, they can only get a quarter of one each.

Now, if you can put some in there. The idea that these things will go down in value.

Over the very long-term. To me, is unlikely.

And part of that is, at the beginning of this, nobody knew. Right?

Like when I first invested in Bitcoin. And I don't have a lot of money in Bitcoin. But when I first started in Bitcoin. My thought was, I'm going to throw some money in this, let's see what happens.

I have absolutely no idea.

My thought was, there's a good chance. I said this to you, at the time. There's a good chance it goes to zero. It was a total gamble. I had no idea.

I liked the concept of money that can't be inflated and printed. Right?

I like that concept. That's why I was interested in it.

But, I mean, how many multi-trillion dollar industries can you remember going to zero?

I mean, is there any example of this?

GLENN: White star line. This has I don't think they were worth trillions. Right?

Enron was a big company, right?

Don't remember it being worth trillions. Bitcoin's market cap is over a trillion dollars.

GLENN: No. I can't see it going to zero. Unless all the central banks in the world say, not --

STU: It's so resistant to that right now. Though.

GLENN: I know.

STU: We're seeing countries open up. And start accepting it. You know, the United States of America, has now accepted Bitcoin ETFs. That's a huge embrace of this technology.

And look, I don't know. I can't tell you, it won't go down in the future. I would be surprised if it never goes down below these levels again. It probably will.

So you might buy today. And at some point, be down.

A lot of people bought in 2021. And thought, oh, my gosh, I've lost all my money.

Except, now pretty much every person who has ever bought Bitcoin in its history, if they held on to it, is either about even or up.

GLENN: Everybody. Even the people who bought at the very peak.

STU: Everybody. Yeah, unless you bought like a couple of months ago, when it hit 69-70 for a couple of days. There's a few people.

But generally speaking, almost no one who has ever purchased this and kept it, has lost money.

And that's that's quite a statement. Again, what other investments can you point to, that has that type of record?

There's almost none. So I don't know. You don't know what the future holds, but man, this is a technology that has proved itself incredibly resilient.

GLENN: I get really pissed at you, every time we talk about this. Every time.

STU: You get pissed at me.

Why are you pissed at me?

GLENN: Yes, I do. I blame you for bad decisions. Blame you.

STU: Why?

GLENN: I was with Marc Andreessen.

STU: Yes.

GLENN: It might have even been a fraction of a cent.

STU: It was before -- well before I bought it. That's for sure.

Because I remember the conversation.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And he's going to start some new thing with this new currency.

STU: Yeah. I remember you telling me this, at the time. I fortunately, did not listen.

GLENN: Yeah. Neither did I. Neither did I.

And we could have put hundred dollars in it, at this point.

STU: Oh, my gosh.

$100. Do you know how much that would be worth?

GLENN: It was a fraction of a cent. Wasn't it?

STU: I don't remember if it was that low, but it was really early.

GLENN: It was right as he started the digital wallet.

Coinbase. It was right as he started it.

STU: Gosh. This makes me physically ill.

GLENN: I think he actually told me that before he started it.

Or he may have --

STU: In the middle of making money or whatever.

GLENN: Yeah. He said, do you know anything about Bitcoin. You should invest.

Just take $5,000. And just throw it in this. And I'm like, uh-huh.

And I -- at the time, $5,000 was -- you know.

STU: You would probably be a billionaire.

GLENN: I would be.

STU: I can't imagine how many you would have -- I love this story.

GLENN: Well, look it up. Look it up.

Look up when they opened Coinbase.

And what the price of Bitcoin was. $5,000.

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Ten-second station ID.
(music)

GLENN: So go ahead.

STU: What?

GLENN: Why he didn't you invest in it? You're always -- you're that kind of guy. You know, I just threw some money in it. Why didn't you --

STU: I mean, I think I did. I just didn't do it as early as that.

Again, I wish I had invested more. Then I wouldn't have to be sitting here with you every day. It would be a dream.

GLENN: If I had a time machine, that's the only thing I would change. And for that reason. I would go back in time.

STU: You would make me -- you actually wouldn't mind making me a billionaire, just so I wouldn't have to be here every day?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. That's the kind of guy I am.

STU: How about this, I'll it do for 10 mil right now. Get some financing.

So it depends. It's hard to know exactly when you talk to him. The Coinbase started in 2012. Coinbase is a little later, when you're talking a fraction of a cent, so it was about ten bucks in 2020 -- when it actually started selling Bitcoin. When Coinbase began that process, it was about ten bucks.

If you spent $5,000 then, you would have had about 500 Bitcoin, which would be worth $32.5 million. Which would be incredibly nice. However, my remembrance of this story was, it was before -- before that. When it was sort of being dreamt up.

So it could have been.

GLENN: It was one of the first times I've ever heard of Bitcoin. And I think I came back to you. And I said, what is Bitcoin?

And you were like, well, people buy pizzas with it.

STU: This is ridiculous history.

GLENN: That's exactly what he said.
STU: I don't think I knew much of anything. I had heard of it. But I didn't know anything about it at that time -- I definitely was not discouraging you in investing $5,000. That's exactly how you remember it.

GLENN: That's exactly how I remember it, Your Honor.

STU: And one fascinating thing I think that really hasn't fully taken -- taken root yet when it comes to the Bitcoin phenomenon.

GLENN: By the way, hang on just a second. I just have to say something. I said at the time. I said that, on the air too.

STU: Oh, really?

We should go back and find it.

We can probably find it.

GLENN: Marc Andreessen. He's at Bitcoin.

Blah, blah, blah. But Warren Buffett. He says, if you don't understand it, you shouldn't invest in it.

STU: Where did you find that?

GLENN: I wonder if anybody. If anybody did it.

What our earliest time was, when we said. Hey, maybe you should throw some money into it.

I don't know if I will do it. If anybody in the audience. Of course, there was somebody that was in the audience.

They're not now.

STU: Showing, they're billionaires.

GLENN: On a yacht someplace.

STU: I think that's one of the things that's most interesting in a societal sense.

That we had a lot of people. Because the early people into Bitcoin. Not like the people necessarily today.

But the early people into Bitcoin. Were people who generally speaking, were ideologically let's say Libertarian.

Or somewhat close to that.

GLENN: Yes. Correct.

STU: And there are now massive amounts of people, who became insanely wealthy over this process. And continue probably to get even wealthier.

And those people who would have probably been marginalized in society, at some level.

Maybe they would of been successful. But would never have that sort of power.

GLENN: No. They're the losers. Loaners. And creeps.

STU: And we've seen.

I mean, Libertarians, will describe themselves this way.

So we've seen now, that many of these people have made an impact. Right?

We've seen a lot of them. Marc Andreessen. Not necessarily, an ideological Libertarian. A lot of these people have risen.

Two of the richest people in the world. Are the Winklevoss twins. The people who had Facebook stolen from them.

GLENN: I think they're fictional characters.

STU: They may be. They were in a movie once. So I don't know.

GLENN: Sure. Anybody can play them. But I think anybody with Winklevoss as their name. And they're twins. I think it's too magical to be real.

STU: It's hard to believe.

GLENN: It is. It is.

Oh, let's call on the Winklevoss twins.

STU: For everything --

GLENN: Show up. Say their names three times.

Hi, we're here to grant any wish, with our magical Bitcoin.

STU: Right. Consider that they basically had Facebook -- in my opinion, Facebook stolen from them. They wound up getting thrown out.

Got some money for it. Were not insanely wealthy.

Wound up not with one, but two giant revolutions of the world.

They were at the founding of almost -- they invested a fortune in Bitcoin, right after that.

And now were multi-billionaires because of it. It's a weird people that wouldn't have normally been at the top of our society. Are now there. And hopefully, they've kept some of these small government routes, through that process.

And maybe they can Friday the country, in a way --

GLENN: No. No. Because when you get that wealthy. What you do, you know, I can get somebody on the phone.

I can make this happen. I don't want a stop sign here.

And I think we should also kill the poor. I will get both of those done. I will call my council member. And, you know, my master at the WEF.

You know what you know I mean?

You start protecting it, and then that all goes to hell.

STU: Maybe. Who knows?

GLENN: We should do what Star Trek did, and abolish all money. Learn how to live in harmony.

STU: That worked out well for them. They were poor in episode.

What are you talking about?

GLENN: How did they pay for those starships? How ridiculous was that?

RADIO

WEAK or BRILLIANT? Israel’s Response to Iran EXPLAINED

Israel has struck multiple targets inside Iran in retaliation for its recent 300-missile attack. But was this limited strike wimpy or brilliant? Former Department of Defense intelligence analyst Jason Buttrill joins Glenn to argue the latter. As opposed to Iran’s massive, but unsuccessful, attack, Israel launched a successful precision attack that showed Iran it could strike the country whenever and wherever it wanted — without Iran knowing. Jason, Glenn, and Stu also discuss why the increased tension in the region is all Biden’s fault. Plus, they review how YOUR tax dollars allegedly went to the families of Palestinian terrorists.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: We're dealing with a true ancient evil in the Middle East. It was -- we have Jason Buttrill here, who is main researcher for the Glenn Beck Program and also watches over military operations, and conflicts all around the world for me.

Explain, what happened yesterday, with Israel, and this wuss response from Israel.

Was this the response? Or a response?

What was this?

JASON: This was a brand response, in my opinion.

GLENN: Was it?

JASON: Well, what Israel essentially did. It's kind of -- all three of us. You asked us, what is going to happen?

We were all collectively right. You said, they would strike back at other targets. Which they did. In Syria and Iraq.

But they also struck in Iran. But it's definitely in the Middle East.

The proxy status is dissolving right before our eyes.

The proxy locations. They hit proxy locations. There's not a whole lot of information we do know.

What it looks to me, when analyzing previous attacks, is that these are locations that have been given Iranian weaponry, specifically like cruise missiles, and shorter range missile systems like the kind that hit Israel.

But they also struck near Isfahan in Iran. That's their main missile manufacturing area is right there.

So this was a very limited strike. I would say, maybe a few planes. Maybe a few planes.

They didn't even. I don't even think they launched the missiles from Iranian territory.

Which means probably somewhere over Iraq. They were able to reach up and touch Iran, without Iran knowing a thing about it. And completely destroying the targets they wanted to destroy.

Iran launched 350 plus missiles. Couldn't kill a single thing. Or destroy a single thing. They did this, in such a way, that showed Iran, we could hit you, whenever we want.

You will never know it. And it will be precise.

GLENN: Such a good thing for the people of Iran.

Because you cannot turn the people of Iran.

JASON: Exactly right.

GLENN: They're not part of this.
JASON: No. And there was no collateral damage that we know of, at the moment. This is how you restore deterrents. This is exactly how -- and let's be honest here. This is not a surprise or a secret, that the proxy status is dissolving in front of us.

And that the Middle East is becoming something new and something terrible. This is the result of foreign policy. This is Joe Biden's foreign policy. He went away from the Abraham Accords.

Reengaged with Iran. Coddled Iran. This is what you get. This is exactly what you get, and it is entirely unmet.

STU: And it's interesting too, that there is a level of deescalation here, by Israel as well.

Like, they did -- yes. This is as far as they have gone, right?

But it is considerably less than what Iran tried to do.

JASON: It's deescalation through strength. Iran has no choice, but to go back to their quote and say, we concluded this concluded. They had no choice.

Because right now, you have a bunch of mullahs sitting around the table going, oh, crap. We're kind of screwed here.

STU: Do you think that's what they will do? Are they going to say -- are they basically going to not respond after this?

JASON: I highly doubt against Israel proper. I highly doubt. I think they go back to the way Israel operates. Because they are decades behind Israel. Texting. And it really is jaw-dropping i mean, not only Israel, but the United States, all of our ally allies, how much far ahead we are against this axis of evil, like Iran, North Korea, russia.

They're crazy, and can do some crazy things. But we are way ahead of them. And as this shows, I mean, it really is kind of breathtaking and amazing just how efficient Israel is.

GLENN: So this not will maybe improve your mood much. But according to the Palestinian Authority's official news outlet, the Palestinian General Intelligence Service on April 4th provided a grant for 36 families perform of agency families who died or were in prison, as a result of their involvement in anti-Israel security crimes.

And they paid their families off, with money that came from us.

PAT: Unbelievable.

GLENN: We will pay the families of the martyrs, and they are using American dollars, that we are giving them to reward the martyrs and the families. So you've always got that one going for you.

PAT: Sorry. American dollars. Going to the Palestinians. Hamas.

American dollars going to Israel. As it should be, I believe, right now. American dollars also going to Iran.

American dollars going to Iraq. American dollars that will be spent when we have to deal with a lot of this stuff.

Where is there not the stain of our ridiculous foreign policy, geopolitics, how we teal with the entire region and world?

We're funding every single side here.

GLENN: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And -- and the right side, we're funding, I think, kind of against the government's will.

I think they will cut off the money for Iran. I mean, I'm sorry. For Israel in a heartbeat. If they could. They could get away with it. They would cut it off in a heartbeat.

Look at what's happening around our own country right now.

And no one is saying anything about it. You have people chanting death to America.

Quoting the Ayatollah Khomeini. In -- in large sections, and large numbers of major cities.

You have the campuses. What happened yesterday, in Columbia?

Police had to come in, and shut the whole thing down, yesterday.

We were talking to the -- the consulate yesterday. The Israeli consulate.

What is the university in New Orleans?

Tulane?

It has 50 percent. 50 percent of the population of Tulane, is Jewish. There are protesters there. And the Jewish students, don't feel safe!

JASON: Yeah.

GLENN: And who is doing anything about it?

JASON: That's why. I understand where Israel is coming from.

But I think they need to mass produce the video they showed us yesterday.

It has to be everywhere. It can no longer be ignorance, for you to chant death to America. That has to do with Iran. Iran greenlit the October 7th -- they have to!

GLENN: I asked them.

I said, look, can I put out a general call and say, come to a movie theater, with me?

And you guys can present it. But you can come in.

You know, we'll vet you in advance. So we know who you are.

And see it. And they said, no.

We can't do that.

STU: They just don't want everyone. What's reasoning?

It's disturbing for the families of these people?

GLENN: No. The families in many of these cases. One of the more disturbing things was the attack on the family. And these two little boys.

JASON: Oh, my gosh.

GLENN: I mean, it was unbelievable. And the mom survived. And she insisted that that video be included.

She's like, no. No. No, no. The world needs to see what happened to my family.

And so what was it she said? She said, we just can't --

JASON: She said, the people that see it, need to have a reason to see it. Or something like that.

GLENN: Yeah. She didn't -- I think their deal is, they don't want to deal in death. You know, they don't want to be seen as just -- but I have to tell you, it is -- it is -- if we could have seen the death camps in advance.

Okay?

If the American people could have seen the beginning of the death camps. And the showers. It's not enough to talk about it.

It just not enough.

JASON: I want to see these people continue to protest in that way.

If they have seen that part of the video and just a quick narration, these terrorists march into a village. They slaughter a dog, that was running up with a happy, wagging tail.

GLENN: Okay. Not an enemy.

JASON: Slaughter the dog.

It was a friendly dog. Then they go through, and you see their body cam turn, as it looks into the screen window. They shoot an old person sitting there in front of the -- behind the window.

You hear them groan and drop. Then you go to this specific voice with the boys. It turns to CCT footage camera.

They're in their underwear. You can tell they're woken up by the gun shots. This is -- the father takes the two kids, hides them. Shields them with his body from a grenade, and he drops instantly. Then the two kids are screaming, why am I alive? Is he dead? Why am I alive?

GLENN: Little kids. Little kids. One of them said.

JASON: Six, eight.

GLENN: Yeah, one of them said to the other, I think we're going to die. And the other brother came and comforted him and tried to, you know, heal him. The little kid had lost the vision in his eye. Couldn't see in both. He's gained back his vision now, in one eye. But the other brother was shielding him.

It was shocking!

JASON: And then, what do the terrorists do? They walk through the house, and start rummaging through their refrigerator. Drinking the juice and the Coke and stuff, looking for food.

It's the most animalist thing I've ever seen.

GLENN: And the kids were smart enough to hide. They ran and hid. I don't know where they hid.

JASON: That was God stuff right there.

GLENN: That was. How they got out of that house alive, and hid. When you saw -- you see the entire community. Everyone is dead. Everyone is dead.

JASON: Yeah.

GLENN: I mean, it was -- it's what happened in Poland, in Czechoslovakia.

When the -- when the people would go into towns. And they would put everybody into a church. They would chain the doors. And they would burn it all down.

And every single Jew in the community was dead. That's what it was.

It's shocking. And how these two kids survived is beyond me, other than a miracle from God.

JASON: I spoke to an IDF guy. He was probably in his 90s. And he was in the six-day war. It was in Sderot.

GLENN: Sderot was hit?

JASON: Sderot was hit as well.

GLENN: I've been there.

JASON: I asked him. How the heck did you guys win? He goes, at times, it felt like God closed their eyes and shut their ears. And that quote came back to me, when those two little boys when you see them run around the corner, when there's terrorists everywhere.

GLENN: There's CCTV footage on this whole area. And so you can follow the kids.

And they're running -- as soon as they leave the door. I don't know. Nobody spoke during this thing. But as soon as they opened the door, I'm like, don't do it. Stay inside. Stay inside.

And they run out. And then you see them running in an open space, between houses. And there are guys just shooting everything. Shooting everything.

And they just run and snake around, and they're not even -- they're kids. They're not trying to be, you know, low to the ground or anything.

They're just running like little kids run, in an open field.

And somehow or another, nobody saw them to kill them.

It's --

STU: Wow. They were survived.

GLENN: They survived. They survived. They survived.

STU: Let me ask you this: How would this play out?

If one of these large protests. The pro-Hamas protests we've been seeing ail around the country.

If you had two thousands of individuals people there, at one of these protests.

And somehow, or one of the big walls nearby, they just played this footage. How does that crowd react to it?

GLENN: That crowd will start saying, very soon, that this is all deepfake.

Let me give you --

STU: They would deny it.

They would be won over. And see the horror.

GLENN: Maybe some would.

The hard cores definitely won't. Hard cores definitely won't.

Let me just give you, this is the polling from the Palestinian territories of Hamas. This is taken after -- after October 7th.

95 percent of the Palestinians when asked, do you think people around you, will forgive what Israel did in this war some day?

This is -- this is asked like October 10th.

No. We will not forgive at all. Seventy-five percent of Palestinians are extremely supportive of the military operation led by Hamas on October 7th.

76 percent of Palestinians. Somewhat positive. Very positive view of the roll of Hamas. 97 percent of Palestinians have a very negative view of Israel.

97 percent, very negative view of the role of America.

84 percent of Palestinians have a very positive view of the roll of Islamic jihad.

74 percent. When presented with a choice of a two-state solution. Or a Palestinian state. From the river to the sea.

74 percent say, river to the sea. When asked about their own preference for the party, who should be in control?

60 percent said, Hamas.

85 percent -- 85 percent, responding to the videos. No. I'm sorry.

93 percent, responding to October 7th.

93 percent said, that they were fine.

That Hamas didn't commit any atrocities. On October 7th.

93 percent, no atrocities!

And you can't tell me, it's just because they didn't watch the videos.

A lot of these videos came from their own video channels.

That everybody is accessing.

And the people on the streets, know exactly what was going on.

JASON: That's the wrong question.

Because they don't consider killing Jews atrocities.

RADIO

What Happens if Israel SACRIFICES a Red Heifer?

Rumors are spreading that Israelis are planning to sacrifice a red heifer around Passover. But will the sacrifice actually be made, what would it mean for Jews and Christians, and what would happen next? Shoreshim Ministries founder Bill Cloud joins Glenn to explain: Will it usher in the End Times? Will the Temple be rebuilt? What does a red heifer even symbolize? What happened the last time Israel found red heifers? Have they built an altar? Should Christians see this as a sign that Christ is returning soon? And should Christians even be focused on this at all?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: It is. And we will tell you about that coming up. We have Bill Cloud on back on. He is the founder of Jacob's Tent Fellowship. Also, Shoreshim Ministries.

And he's probably -- he's taught Biblical prophecy for a long time. And what I like about him is, he's not like, we're all going to die, it's coming tomorrow. He takes a very tempered look at everything and just can give you the facts that we know. But we don't know if those are the facts that, you know, God was telling us to look for.

Is that a good explanation? Bill.

BILL: Well, I do try to be tempered.

I mean, I try to keep all of my theology, in this solar system.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: So, you know, I try to be that way.

GLENN: Okay. And you said yesterday, that sometimes, you know, what we think is going -- we're looking for, is not necessarily going to happen, the way we think it's going to happen.

Can you give me an example of that?

BILL: Well, yeah. In Matthew chapter 17, Josiah goes up to the top of the Mount with Peter, James, and John.

He's transfigured. His face is shining like a light.

The disciples see this. They're coming back down the mountain, and they're puzzled. Because they asked him, hey, we follow that the prophecy teachers of the day told us that Elijah could come first.

But you're already here. And you're obviously the messiah. So how come Elijah didn't come first. And he said, well, Elijah did. But you missed it.

Because you were looking for that Elijah. But you missed the whole message that John the Baptist was giving, the spirit and power of Elijah.

So that's the very quick example of, we can be looking at this. It has to look like this. It has to be this size. And everything else.

And the whole time, God is doing exactly what was said, just not the way we were looking for.

So as I said yesterday. It's very important, as we read these professes.

We interpret them. We think they will happen this way. Based on what we see going on in the world today.

But I sometimes -- and maybe even a lot of times. It doesn't happen the way we think. It just happens exactly the way God said. And it's usually after it happened, we can look and say, yeah. Okay. I see it now.

So that's an example. And that is very important, I believe. In going forward. And, you know, when we see all these things happening in the world.

GLENN: So I often have thought, if you were alive during Hitler's reign, especially if you had a front row seat to it, you had to have thought that Jesus was coming soon. But there were a lot of things that had not been accomplished. For instance, the reestablishment of Israel.

And then the gathering of Israel.

And so, you know, if you knew your Scriptures. You would go, well, no. I don't think so.

But it could happen quickly.

But now, a lot of really big things have happened.

What's -- what big prophecies have been fulfilled, and what is still out there, that we should be watching out for?

VOICE: Well, you mentioned the reestablishment of the nation of Israel in '48.

The capturing of the old city, and the reeducation of Jerusalem in '67. Which at that point, gave Jews access to the Temple Mount.

Although, temporarily. So the -- it's a big one. And I might say, that, you is still ongoing. And it has not come to its ultimate fruition.

GLENN: And what does that mean?

What does that mean? The regathering of Israel?

What does that mean exactly.

BILL: Well, to make a long story short. Because of transgression. Because of rebellion. Because of all these different sins, Israel was exiled. And to this day, a lot of Israel is still scattered through the nations. So there are these multiple prophecies about how until the last, they have gathered all of Israel into the land. To the point, this is the way Jeremiah puts it. That they will never talk about the exodus out of I didn't want. But they will talk about the exodus from all these different nations, and because we aren't talking in those terms just yet, that tells me it hasn't come to its ultimate fulfillment. But because we will talk about, in just a couple of days how God brought his people out of Egypt.

GLENN: Right.

BILL: So it's an ongoing thing. But that's a really big one. But, no, there are other things that are happening right now.

I think the Gazan War is something that is very significant. Because there are prophecies about Gaza about the land of the Philistines.

I think this war has the potential. I'm not going to make the prediction. But it has the potential to lead into other things. The attack the other night.

Iran was said to be, at least, you know, affiliated with, you know, what's going on with Gaza, and these kinds of things.

So there are things going on right now, that do set stage. Potentially, for some things to happen.

And that makes our day a little different right now.

GLENN: What -- what -- that you're saying, that Gaza could turn into.

What are you referring to?

BILL: Well, again, there are different prophecies about Gaza, how it's going to be. You know, basically. But here's the thing that jumps out at me. It's the fact that Hamas has played such a big role.

The Bible names Hamas by name. There are prophecies against Edom and Esau, and it says because of the Hamas, that you committed against your brother Jacob, which is translated violence, I'm going to deal with you.

And Obadiah, it says, because you've committed Hamas against your brother Jacob, I am going to deal with you.

In Genesis, before the days of Noah, before the flood, it says that Hamas filled the earth. So I do not believe that that is just some cosmic. That's God way before any of this, you know, we were even thought of.

God is already telling us things in the beginning, to be on the lookout.

So the fact that Hamas has been the instigator, primary instigator, as it relates to what's going on in the Gaza War right now. To me, something is very, very important. And that means, it has the potential to expand into other things. Other prophecies. They talk about the construction of Damascus. And it leading all the way up to what a lot of people are looking for in the War of Gog and Magog. So all of that is on the table, as a possibility.

Is it going to happen right now? Again, I don't know. There are things that could happen that could lead to these more dramatic events. So, anyway, that's --

GLENN: Well, the --

BILL: That's what I mean by the Gazan thing.

GLENN: Well, the destruction of Syria, Damascus could happen overnight. The return of the Jews to Israel, you would think that would be almost impossible. You know, one of the things I've been thinking lately. You know, disconnected from end time stuff.

If I were a Jew today. And I saw the whole world starting to heat up like this. There would come a time, when I would be like, you know, I'm going to Israel.

I will at least stand with my own people.

Because it's the only place, where I may not be persecuted, you know, without a shot of standing up.

BILL: Well, and I think that -- this is going to sound maybe a little bizarre.

But God's way, is to put pressure on people.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: To move them into a place that they want them to be. I mean, that's just the plain and simple fact.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: So I don't discount that at all.

I think these things begin to unfold. It will become increasingly unpopular in the world. To be Jewish.

To be associated with Israel. To stand with Israel.

But at the same time, you know, God uses that pressure to kind of put people in the position, he wants them to be. To kind of put people in the position -- to kind of force his will. And it's always going to be for the best interest of his people.

But it doesn't feel very good at the time when you're being subjected to all that pressure.

GLENN: Do Iran and Russia and their alliance play a role in prophecy?

BILL: Well, a lot of people think so. I'm one of those. And based, primarily, on reading Ezekiel 38 and 9. This is -- I mentioned briefly a moment ago, the war of Gog and Magog. Right?

And so if you think -- if you read the prophecy, we don't have time to do that today. But if you think that Russia is the land of Magog, then I would say yes.

In fact, that prophecy talks about how this chief prince. This ruler, over the land of Magog will come from the far north. Well, if you start in Israel and go north.

If you go to the far north, you're in Russia.

So it seems that Russia would be involved. And, of course, the old Soviet Union was never a friend to Israel.

It was a line of Israel's enemies. If I were Netanyahu, I wouldn't trust Putin as long as I can spit.

So Russia is not a good guy in this regard. And then when you read that prophecy, Ezekiel 38:9, you'll see among the confederates, the first one that is mentioned is Persia, which of course is the ancient name for Iran.

Just kind of a sidebar here. Interesting to me, anyway. The name Iran, or the modern name Iran, is derived from the word Aryan.

Maybe it -- maybe that should tell you something.

GLENN: Yeah. I've always thought so.

Before we get into the Ark of the Covenant. Which I just find fascinating.

You said that we need to watch out for Esau.

Who is Esau in the Bible? And in modern times?

BILL: Well, Esau, of course, was the older brother of Jacob. He's all red and hairy, and he's impulsive. And he's a hunter, and all these kinds of things.

And he has no regard for the birthright. He has no regard for the covenant that God made with Abraham. Jacob is the more temperate one. He values these things that are eternal. So when Jacob obtained the blessing of his father Isaac, Esau vowed to kill him.

So as you read ahead in the prophecy, you will see, even though the man, Esau died, God still addresses Esau, also known as Edom, you know, centuries later, because of your hatred towards your brother, because of the hamas toward your brother, I am going to -- I am going to deal with you in the end.

And so to me, today, Esau is epitomized in those people, like Hamas. Like Hezbollah. They have this ancient hatred. And that's the way it's termed in Ezekiel chapter five.

And I would even include, Glenn, within that mix, all these people that are getting on the Golden Gate Bridge. And stopping traffic.

And doing all these protests and standing outside the New York University, last night.

Chanting death to America. In Dearborn, Michigan. I would include that, in the people that are identified as Esau from a Biblical point of view, not so much because they're descended from that.

GLENN: No. Because of their hatred. Unreasonable hatred.

BILL: Correct.

GLENN: Okay. When we come back, let me take a one-minute break, and then we will talk about the rebuilding of the temple and the Ark of the Covenant. Some say they know exactly where it is. And it's closer to the Temple Mount, than you might think.

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(music)

GLENN: Okay. So does the dome of the rock have to be destroyed for the third temple?

BILL: That's what most people think when they consider, you know, a building of the temple. Although, not everybody thinks that that is necessary.

And because there is some dispute about where the temple actually sat, where the Holy of Holies was.

There's a lot of religious -- where the dome of the rock is.

There was a gentleman, excuse me, back in the late '80s, early '90s.

A professor at the University. He felt that the holy of holies was actually a little north of the dome of the rock, at a place called the dome of the tablets of the spirits.

So most people believe that the dome of the rock has to go. There are some who believe that it's possible, that the temple could have -- it's not just north.

And technically speaking, could it be on the same platform. There's even a passage in revelation chapter seven. Where John is told to measure the temple of God. To leave the court outside. Leave that out.

The Gentiles. So some people have thought, well, maybe that is suggesting that there is going to be a temple, alongside either the dome of the rock.

Or the mosque. And, you know, I don't know. I find that problematic for a lot of reasons.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like the burning of the red heifer right there, you know, in Arab territory.

It might be a problem with that.

BILL: That's right.

GLENN: So, you know, the Ark of the Covenant is where they kept the Ten Commandments. And I know it was real. I know it existed. I never, ever thought, we're going to find that.

We're going to find that? Is that important for the rebuilding of the temple?

BILL: Well, technically speaking. The second temple.

This is the one that was built after the Babylonian captivity. And then Herod expanded it. That, we did not have the Ark of the Covenant in it. And it was still considered the house of God.

So there's historical precedent for rebuilding the temple and not having the ark. However, there's prophecies that talk about, how the glory of the latter house is going to be greater than the first one. Referring to Solomon, which is referring to the Ark of the Covenant.

So technically, they could rebuild it without the ark.

However, there have been those in Israel, since the reunification of Jerusalem, who not only do they want to build a temple of the Temple Mount, but they want to find the Ark of the Covenant.

And there are a lot of traditions, as to what happened to the Ark of the Covenant.

Some say, that it went to Ethiopia, which I don't believe.

Some people say, that Jeremiah hid it in Mount Nebo which is Jordan. Some people believe it's outside the old city, buried. And then there are quite a number of people. And particularly, people close to the idea of rebuilding the temple.

Who believe it's buried somewhere, and underneath the Temple Mount.

That's not really a big secret honestly. It's all oar the internet.

GLENN: No. But I find, if you know something about the Temple Mount.

We'll come back to this in just a second.

Because there's somebody a labyrinth of temples underneath, et cetera, et cetera. But I can't see how those have not been, you know, exhaustively gone through by those of the Muslim religion.

We'll give more of those in just a second. Stand by.
(music)

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(OUT AT 10:29 AM)

GLENN: Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program.

We're glad you're here.

We're talking to bill cloud, as passover comes up on Monday.

We're talking about Biblical prophecies. Because there's a lot of stuff happening in the world right now.

Where a lot of people are going, you know. I think eye read about this someplace before.

But. No man knows when.

I mean, it could be a thousand years from now.

But it will happen at some point.

And we need to be aware. And I want to make this really clear. And, Bill, I think you'll back me up on this.

The Lord was not. He didn't look at Scriptures and was like, man. It doesn't have a snappy ending.

I want part two of this. So let me leave them on a scary cliffhanger.

The Book of Revelation was written, not to scare us.

But to say, look, all of these things will come to pass.

And it's almost. I think it's a blessing, that he says, and, you know, at this point, the seven-year clock starts to -- to tick off.

And he's telling us, this -- I'm not -- don't be shocked by these things.

They're going to be bad. And they're going to seem like they're never-ending.

But they're not.

And I'm telling you these things, so you have faith. And can make it through those times. Is that how you read it?

BILL: Absolutely. When you go to the Book of Revelation, by the way. And you look at the heading.

It says, the revelation of Jesus Christ. It does not say the revelation of the Antichrist or the tribulation or bold judgments and vile judges. It's about the Messiah. In fact, it says, in that book, that the essence of prophecy is the testimony of the messiah. The spirit of prophecy is about the messiah.

So everything about all this bad stuff, ultimately, it will point us to the messiah. Because all the bad stuff is just the Satan, and those who practice wickedness. Trying to stop the messiah from returning and sitting upon his throne in Jerusalem. To rule and reign.

So, yeah, it doesn't end on a bad note. It ends on what mankind, those who love and holiness had been longing for, since Adam was exiled from the garden.

A return, to be with God and God be in our midst. So that's the greatest thing that we could ever hope for. And all these things that we would see, is pointing us to that. So it's an excellent observation on your part.

It tells us these things. In fact, when he sat down on the Mount of Olives with his disciples. This is a -- by the way, Mount of Olives is where they will burn that red heifer when they do it. But anyway, he sits down on the Mount of Olives. And he says, tell me all these things, as you said, so you know this will happen.

But don't be dismayed. Don't fall in despair. I'm telling you these things, so that you will not be deceived.

I'm telling you these things, in advance, you won't be impulsive, and running after things that you shouldn't be running after. So when these things happen, keep your focus.

You know, kind of stay the course on what you know is true. So absolutely, I agree with you.

GLENN: Growing lawlessness is the sign of the last days. And we're seeing lawlessness, like I've never seen before.

Now, this has happened over and over again. Where societies have been lawless, and they collapse.

But lawlessness in the last days, it gives birth to the lawless one. Which is the Antichrist. Right?

BILL: Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. You know, a lot of people have thought, that the Antichrist have come to power. And he will create this lawless environment.

I believe a lawless environment gives birth to the lawless one. The final prediction of the Antichrist.

GLENN: To me, that -- that is -- makes sense.

We're -- you know, it was about 2000, oh, six. I was talking to Condoleezza Rice. And she used very specific language. She was on my show. And we were talking about, you know, what things look like now.

And, you know, what's coming our way. And she said, these things are birth pangs. Of the things to come.

And I thought, that was -- you know, rather unusual language for somebody to use.

Because it's very Scriptural.

BILL: Yeah. That's Biblical language for sure.

GLENN: Yeah, it is. And we are giving birth to something. I don't know if it's the -- you know, the Antichrist. Or the end times. Or just really, really bad times.

But there -- everything that we're seeing, these are like contractions and birth pangs. When things happen, you're like, ow. That hurt. And they're becoming faster and faster and closer and closer to one another.

We are giving birth to something.

BILL: Yeah. Well, in Hebrews, it's the birth pangs of the Messiah.

The Messiah is -- and his rule and reign, over the earth, that's what is -- that's what's being birthed. That's what's coming to fruition.

It's just in the process, the earth and everybody in it, has to go through these birth pangs.

Paul talks about how the earth is groaning and producing this travail and birth pangs. So that the sons of God will be revealed. That goes hand-in-glove with the messiah and his return. That's what's being birthed.

But just like in any birth, something that is wonderful. There's all this yuckiness, and pain and suffering.

Unfortunately, that pressure has to be there, to get those who are listening to the voice of the Lord, in the place that he wants them to be. And that is, not giving in to the lawlessness. Not giving in to the just crazy stuff, that society is pushing down our throats.

But to stay true, based on what Christians say.

So that's what's being birthed, as far as I'm concerned.

GLENN: Let me go back to the Ark of the Covenant. It seems like an Indiana Jones movie. It doesn't seem rule in some ways.

I know it is. Or I know it was.

But then it just kind of disappeared.

Nobody really knows what happened to it. People have been looking for it, forever.

And people are saying, it will be revealed. And some people believe it's under the Temple Mount.

I've stood, at the place where they say, right behind these stones, is where they think the holy of holies is.

Which is where they think the Ark of the Covenant is.

And it's a labyrinth of passageways and everything, underneath there. At least it used to be. But why -- why would it -- how could it possibly be still there, when, you know, the Muslims have been digging underneath the Temple Mount for a long time. And taking truckloads, of -- of dirt and antiquities out and just dumping them.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, how could it still be there?

You know, I don't know that I have the answer to that question. I will just say, my faith would say, if God wanted it to be there, it will still be there. He has a way of watching over things.

GLENN: Right.

But is it prophesied that it will be found and come back, or is this just something that some people think?

BILL: Well, the last time you see -- or you see a mention of the Ark of the Covenant. Is when Josiah tells the priest to take the Ark of the Covenant and put it in the house that Solomon had prepared for it. And, by the way, there are people who read into that. Well, the Ark of the Covenant was already in the temple. What is Josiah saying? Some people say, well, he was hiding it, because he knew the Babylonians were coming. And that's where some people think, well, it's hidden in somewhere around Jerusalem.

Most people close to the temple, are -- our rebuilt temple. Motivation. Think it's under the Temple Mount.

But, you know, it disappears from the record, is the point.

And the next time you see anything mentioned. It's in the Book of Revelation, actually.

After all this other stuff is over with.

All the bad stuff.

So, yeah. It is a big mystery.

I will tell you a quick story. Ninety-two.
I and another gentleman, along with an Israeli friend, we went to the office of Rabbi Yehuda Getz, who at that time was over all of the holy places in Jerusalem.

And to make a long story short, Rabbi Getz did not believe that the Ark of the Covenant was in Ethiopia. He did not believe it was there.

He felt very confident, he knew where the Ark of the Covenant was. And he did not tell us. But our Israeli friend, later told us, that in the early '80s, along with a lot of the men who were participants, in the relitigation of Jerusalem. '67. Actually, when these excavations begun, they were looking for the Ark of the Covenant. Because they believed that it was under the temple mount somewhere. I've even heard reports, that it was supposedly -- saw the place where it was kept. Now, I don't know that to be a fact.

So there are people who do believe it still exists. There are people that are in Jerusalem, who would love for that to be revealed. And I would suggest that if that were -- if you think the red of her will cause --

GLENN: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I can't imagine how that could be revealed, and the whole world not taking real significant note.

Whether you believe that the -- what's ever in it. Or that the remnants of the Ten Commandments. Or not.

It doesn't matter.

For the Ark of the Covenant to be revealed and come back.

That would say a lot, about Israel. About Jerusalem. About the times we live in. I mean, pretty much everything. Pretty much everything.

GLENN: Well, it still exists. And this is just my opinion. That's all it is, just an opinion.

I tend to believe that if it does exist, and it's going to be revealed.

Then it probably will coincide with the Messianic age, with the Messiah's return.

And I think that would probably be more likely. But that doesn't mean that there aren't people who would be very, very excited to be -- to have an opportunity. To find it, look for it. And if they could, bring it out.

And that would cause World War III, most likely.

GLENN: It probably would.

It's weird, Bill. When you're over there. You don't understand highway this little patch of land has caused so much turmoil really, in the world.

Why everybody seems to be -- you know, centered on that patch of land. Because it's not very big.

And it's almost like it's a pulse, you can feel it.

That Temple Mount. There's something about that area.

It's God's throne. And you can feel it.

It's amazing. It's amazing.

BILL: Exactly. Exactly. That, what you just said, is prophetic. Prophecy said, he will make Jerusalem burden themselves. And even more -- more so, the Temple Mount. Because that is where God's presence kissed the earth.

And the Ark of the Covenant was basically God's throne on earth.

So, yeah. It's a very contested piece of property, and it will be at the heart of conflict. Yes.

GLENN: Bill Cloud, thank you so much.

If you would like to follow him, you can follow him on his website at BillCloud.org. That's BillCloud.org.

RADIO

The Right WON’T WIN Unless it Does THIS

Recently, “America’s Cultural Revolution” author Christopher Rufo warned that “the Right faces an inflection point.” Instead of focusing on actually changing policies and culture, he argued, some on the Right have leaned into “conspiracy theories that lead nowhere.” Some of these, especially related to Israel, have caused massive debates. But how should we approach this divide? And what’s causing it? Christopher and Glenn make the case that the answer is self-discipline, NOT censorship, and providing better content than just “cheap attention” tweets. In order to win against the progressive elites, conservatives must get their own house in order first.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Last week, I saw Christopher Rufo, who I greatly admire.

Write and talk about something we don't need to talk about. But in that, he said, the right faces an reflection point. There are serious people, who are trying to advance a serious political movement, with a vision for governing.

There are also unserious people, who are willing to sell conspiracy. Leading us nowhere.

I care about politics, because I believe we have substantive work to do for the country. This requires putting together a coalition that is capable of taking responsibility. The choice is ours.

I responded to that. And people -- and I'm hoping Christopher didn't. But people thought that I was coming after Christopher and I, but I wasn't.

I was really frustrated with, he's right. But what does a serious option look like?

I said, I have great respect for Christopher Rufo. He has done more to expose the rot than many of us combined. But, Chris, the only option that I see that is viable is a return to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. All of our problems stem from the violation of these documents. Congress doesn't care.

Nor does it even attempt to do its job. Every administration is worse than the last. At this point, it is all powerful.

Supreme Court has trouble defining a woman. May God help us, with them defining any of the Amendments. Our Justice Department, Intel, and every agency has been co-opted by radicals. Those who believe in a constitutional republic are not the radicals. There is another option.

Return to e pluribus unum. The Bill of Rights and Constitution.

So I wanted to get Christopher on. Because I heard from so many people, that we were warring. And, Christopher, I'm sorry, if I've let anybody, to think I would stand against you.

Because I have some admiration for you.

CHRIS: Of course not. I didn't take any offense to it.

I found we were actually in agreement. I'm glad we have a chance to talk in greater depth.

I think you translation canned the problem there perfectly. But the question I'm raising is, how do we get there?

What kind of coalition do we need?

What kind of intellectual leadership, do we need? And then what kind of political leadership do we need?

And what I noticed on the right, especially on the horrific I can attacks against Jews in Israel, is that there's been a fragmentation.

And there's people chasing conspiracy theories. There's a rise. Kind of resurge answer, on the outer fringes of anti-Semitism on the right.

And then there are people elevating their profiles in media. On conspiracy theories, that lead nowhere, on kind of tabloid-style dossett that doesn't offer any kind of concrete possibility.

And so I think we have a media problem. And we have, in addition, a leadership problem.

GLENN: When you say a media problem, you mean the right media?

CHRIS: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I just -- I think if you look at kind of serious conservative media figures. And, of course, I would include you in this. You're always doing the reporting, the conversations, trying to guide people, towards something, that that they can do. Some legislation that politicians can pass. Some policy that we can adopt. Some counterculture that we can build. But I think given the dynamics of online media advertising, audience building, and then just the dynamics of kind of general tech and media trends.

Some people are being, you know, kind of generously rewarded with clicks and attention. Who don't actually offer anything substantive. And I think it gets some of our audience. And some of our listeners. In this outrage cycle.

Where they're outraged for outrage sake.

They're not being directed for guiding that outrage towards something constructive. And I've seen it. It can be really be damaging to people. And it's certainly damaging to a political movement.

And I don't think it's a failure of the audience. I think it's actually a failure of us, in the media, in positions of authority, in positions of leadership. You always have to guide people towards something that can make their lives better, and if we're not doing that, we're taking advantage, and we have to stop.

GLENN: So I completely agree with you.

So what is -- because we agree with the solution. And this is my point, back to you, was, I am very afraid of serious options. Because there is another split in the right. That is -- is willing to look at -- at extra constitutional solutions. And that's really dangerous. And starting to say, well, this Constitution, maybe it's old and dusty. Like the left has been saying.

No, no, no, no. No. All of our problems are solved, by two things.

One, the people living a better life. And I don't mean like, you're making more money. I mean, you're more decent, humble, and just better person. Plus, the rule of law. Being restored, as written.

So where do you see anybody coming up and really promoting that, Chris?

CHRIS: Well, I think that's exactly what we need to do. And I've been very vocal. There's a lot of frustration on the right. There's a lot of anxiety. But all of our problems can be solved through kind of normal -- Democratic -- peaceful Democratic means. We still have a great system.

But our system is atrophying because we're not using that system. And soiled point to the leadership of someone whom I admire very much. Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida. He had the same legislature, that Jeb Bush did. He had the same state Constitution.

And yet, he's using power effectively within the law, to make Florida a better state for people to live, work, and raise families.

And so I think we have to really discipline our own coalition, we have to stop engaging in these kind of fantasies, of extra judicial or extra parliamentary politics. And we have to say, if we are going to be the conservative, political party, the conservative political movement, we have to respect the documents that just be smarter. Be more persistent. Be more diligent.

In actually practicing politics. And so there are models out there, that are successful. And I think, we have another model of the kind of more, say, radical, extra constitutional model. That is the dismal failure. It's always been a dismal failure. When the left did it in the late 1960s and early 1970s, with those radical movements, the American people rejected them. If the right does it at any time, now or in the future, the people, the citizens will reject them.

It's a dead end. And we need media figures, that are kind of telling people to straighten out. To have self-discipline. To remind people of the constitutional principles that we're fighting for. And then to lay out a plausible plan.

Because people get desperate, when they think we have no other options. So it's our responsibility to show them the concrete options, not just spin out into conspiracy land.

GLENN: So, Chris, I do not -- I do not -- I don't listen to anybody else. I don't watch anybody else.

I read. But I have tried to cut my reading back to about four hours a day.

Because it's just poison. It's just all poison. But it's part of my job.

I have to read and be informed. So I don't -- but I don't hear things. You -- I am very concerned about just somebody doing something stupid. I'm also very concerned about this very, very small group of people.

That are Christian nationalists. But it's very small.

I am not concerned about the -- the average listener, if you will.

CHRIS: Correct.

GLENN: You seem to be -- I don't know if your concern is greater than mine.

And I'm pretty concerned about things. I want to -- I want to judge why -- what is it that you're feeling or is bringing this out, in such a passionate way? I want to make sure I'm not missing it.

CHRIS: Yeah. Well, I think we are approaching a critical period, in our country's history.

And, you know, I think the genesis of my comments. Was this -- you know, blowup between Candace Owens. And the Daily Wire. You know, Ben Shapiro's publication.

And, you know, I think that -- I tried to be disciplined. In my criticisms. People within our coalition. Within our movement.

But, you know, Candice had been arguing that there are secret gangs of Jews. Murdering people in Hollywood. She had rationalized Kanye West's, you know, kind of deranged antisemitic outbursts. She had been pushing stories about how the president of France's wife is actually a man. And these are stories that drive clicks. They drive controversy.

But they actually don't create anything substantive. And unfortunately, there is a kind of rising group of commentators and media figures. That have figured out, that the way to get cheap attention. Is to put forward stories like these.

And I just think that, we have to be, of course, kind of tolerant of a range of opinion.

But there also is an out of bound or a limit, that any political movement needs to maintain its own coherence and its own discipline.

GLENN: And you're not talking about censorship. You're just talking about self-control.

CHRIS: That's right. It's first self-discipline, and then it's also giving people a better option.

Of course, I don't think any of these opinions should be censored. They shouldn't be stricken from the record. The government shouldn't have any sway whatsoever.

But I think it's up to us, to have that discerning judgment. And to also show people, why this is such a limitation.

Why -- why it actually is not helpful.

And to get people out of this outrage cycle, that depletes them, and into a cycle of participation and politics in a real sense.

You know, politics is not, you know, tweeting conspiracy theories. Politics is actually winning elections. Changing the law. And managing institutions.

And so we needed a movement that is capable of doing that. And if we're not a movement that is capable of doing that, we don't deserve power.

We don't deserve to win, and we don't deserve to have our ideas shaping the law.

GLENN: I am -- we're talking to Christopher Rufo.

I am gravely concerned, that any time between now and really probably January 20th of next year, is the most dangerous place our republic may have ever been.

And that's including in the Civil War. We are -- we are at the edge of losing everything. Somebody does something stupid. We go to war. The economy collapses.

Whatever it is. There is -- there is a real shot, that we lose our freedom. It's happening all -- I mean, look what's happening in Brazil. This is -- this is happening all over the West, right now.

And I know, I have self-edited more than I've ever edited. Because I want to be very careful with my word.

Because I am so concerned, about the cries of dis and miss and malinformation. That will be wrongly pointed in people's direction by the state.

But it's important now, that we are speaking clearly. And as -- and as accurately, as we possibly can.

Do you feel the same way?

CHRIS: I feel the same way, and I'm very concerned about it. And I think this really dovetails nicely with my argument. If we don't have the self-discipline and if we engage in these kind of wild lines of media narratives.

It will provide, you know -- it's fake. But it will provide a kind of rationalization or justification for continued censorship. If the government and organized left, can point to a verifiably false conspiracy theories. They can then use it as justification for censorship.

Obviously, I don't support that. I think you should -- I think everyone has the right to say whatever they want. True, false, good or bad.

But, you know, we have to be realistic about it. And this is a major threat, of getting deplatformed. Of getting debanked.

GLENN: Yep.

CHRIS: Of getting kind of de-anonymized, exposed. And so we have to -- we unfortunately. Look, the New York Times can publish conspiracy theories for three years about Russiagate, they will be awarded the Pulitzer Prize, and they'll pay no price when it turns out to be all a pack of lies.

We don't have that luxury. I wish we did. But we have to take the reality for what it is.

We have to be more disciplined. We have to have higher standards. And we have to fight much smarter than our opponents.

That said, the good news, is that when we fight smart, like DeSantis has done in Florida.

There is a wide open vista of possibility for us.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

CHRIS: And we can truly create, you know, what I think of as a counter hegemony. That will create a bulwark or a defense against all of the awful things that the organized left is doing.

GLENN: Christopher Rufo, thank you so much. Thank you for being a friend. Friend of the show. And friend of freedom. Appreciate it.

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