GLENN BECK PROGRAM
GLENN: Last night on the TV show, I don’t even know what the hell we were even talking about. Oh, I was talking about the Ron Paul revolution and, you know, with this Guy Fox day that, you know, remember November the 5th, which is all over Ron Paul stuff, not by him but by his supporters, right, Stu? He has not pushed —
STU: Yeah, November 5th day, no, he has not.
GLENN: But his supporters have. And I believe Ron Paul’s, you know, slogan, Ron Paul revolution is not meant — you know, is not meant literally. However, I think some of his supporters may, and we were talking about it last night, about the seeds of discontent, and some of the real signs of danger from the left and the right, you have the extreme right — well, no, it’s not a left and right thing. It’s really socialism or communism, totalarianism and anarchy. You’ve got those two extremes. You’ve got the ones that want to put us in the Soviet Union all the way to those who are just anarchists and those are the fringes that I am most afraid of here in America. Those are the enemies within, some of them, and they’re targeting legitimate concerns.
by David Horowitz
For instance, the Ron Paul revolution, the reason why a lot of people are saying no government is better than this government is because they’re giving our freedom away. It’s bad stuff. Our sovereignty is going away. And a lot of people are up on it. They don’t know what to do. Some say, well, it’s just time to take our government back. And I was talking to David Horowitz about that and I started the conversation with, you know, David, I know that you were a Marxist back in the Sixties, and he came out and he said, well, yeah, but I mean, you know, you’ve got to understand. I was raised by Marxists who had Soviet influence on, you know, my parents and everything else. We were in the middle of another conversation. So I couldn’t stop and say, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? So I invited him on the program today. Welcome, Mr. Horowitz. How are you, sir?
HOROWITZ: Thank you, Glenn. It’s funny how even at this late date, it’s hard for any of us to say as parents we’re card-carrying members of the American communist party. There was a communist party in this country. My parents were members. All of our friends were in the party.
GLENN: Actual card-carrying communists.
HOROWITZ: Actual card-carrying. Of course, they never used the word communist. They referred to themselves as…
HOROWITZ: Progressives, exactly. So hang on just a second. Your parents, when you were growing up, they actually advocated the destruction of the United States?
HOROWITZ: They wanted Soviet America. They wanted to lose the Cold War and they had views which are very, you know, similar to the left today. When I was a kid, I used to be taken by my parents to Ninth Avenue or Seventh Avenue where there was a theater called the Stanley Theater and we used to go see Soviet films about Stalin.
GLENN: You must have been mighty popular. When did you —
HOROWITZ: Actually it’s really interesting. I was a classic Yankee fan. If you were on the left, you could not be a Yankee fan. It was my first deviation.
GLENN: That’s so funny.
HOROWITZ: The Yankees were kind of the ruling class of baseball. You had to be a Dodger fan because, of course, they had brought in Jackie Robinson in 1947 and which I was 8 at the time. That’s kind of where I —
GLENN: So when you were a teenager, it was during the McCarthy era.
GLENN: How did you experience the McCarthy era, as a teenager whose parents were card-carrying communists?
HOROWITZ: Well, it was kind of in a hard time for me. My father was one of the — was a teacher who lost his job. New York had a law which said they couldn’t be a member of the communist party and teach, and they knew he was a communist because — but, you know, he wouldn’t answer the question. So they fired him. And his name appeared in the New York Times and I got some hate mail, which is not that easy to, you know, handle when you’re 14 years old, you get it from people that you know as schoolmates.
HOROWITZ: But, you know, I have to say that my life, for example, at Columbia University where I was a student in the Fifties was a lot better than that of conservative students on American campuses who were constantly harassed in the classroom by their teachers. My teachers never singled me out even though I wrote Marxist papers and they knew very well what my politics were. I went through the whole story, Glenn, in the book "Radical Son" which is not only a history, it’s not only my personal biography and honestly including, you know, my personal life because when I finally left the left, my whole world collapsed and I went through a series of divorces. So I integrated the personal and the political in the book. (Inaudible). Understand the mentality of American Progressives. My book "Radical Son" is as good a place to start as any.
GLENN: I’ve got to read it. I’m sorry to say, David, I haven’t. I’m kind of new to this whole, you know, caring kind of thing. September 11th changed me. I was just a screw-off. When it came to global politics and everything else, I always thought, you know — I thought McCarthy was wrong, and I’m still not sure that he was necessarily, you know — I’m not saying that he was a good guy, but the jury is now out for the first time on that, and I really never questioned why the Soviet Union could collapse and there wasn’t a revolution, there weren’t people, as they were pulling down the statues of Stalin, why there weren’t people shooting at the people that were tearing down the statues until recently and I thought, you know, if your system ever collapsed and we became communist, if they pulled down the statue of Abe Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson, I know I would be on the front lines trying to shoot those people.
HOROWITZ: Well, the thing about — let me just say that the fact that you came after 9/11 and had this whole other background makes you a very refreshing voice, and I’m sure that’s part of your, a big part of your popularity. People like me who are so, you know, historically rooted can often sound like broken records.
HOROWITZ: So I really appreciate what you do to win people up.
GLENN: David, explain this to me because where I was going is the Soviet Union collapsed. Those guys just went underground. They became social Democrats. They didn’t stop being communist and I don’t —
HOROWITZ: And in America you have to understand that the left that you see out there, which is opposing the Iraq war and, you know, getting upset about prisoners in Guantanamo is the same left that supported the Soviet Union. The Cold War, wanted us to lose the Cold War. They didn’t go away. When communism collapsed, and it collapsed because with the crackpot economist that just got it wrong, it was a bankrupted system. But when it collapsed, their attitude was, oh, good, now we don’t have to defend this anymore. We’ll just go on attacking capitalism, American democracy as the great Satan and continue on our way. And that’s really what’s happened. These people never looked back. You know, you would think that people who went through the Vietnam War, I was a — you know, I was one of the leaders of the antiwar left and the largest magazine of the left, Ramparts. And then when the war ended, when America left and the communists proceeded to slaughter 2 1/2 million people in Cambodia and Vietnam, I had second thoughts. I said, you know, Nixon was right: There was going to be a bloodbath if the communists won, and we were wrong and we helped make this bloodbath possible.
HOROWITZ: But if you listen to John Kerry or Ted Kennedy or Howard Dean or the Clintons, all of whom were part of that movement, they have no regrets. They don’t take any responsibility for the disaster that’s to retreat. And then we’re proposing that we do it again in Iraq.
GLENN: You know, David, I have to tell you I appreciate anybody who tries to be intellectually honest and will say, boy, I made a huge mistake because we all make mistakes but people pretend that they never did and they never go back, you are exactly right. They always go forward. So I appreciate it. As a guy who — as a guy I should be pissed at because, you know, I think we treated our Vietnam veterans in shameful despicable ways, and you were part of that. I actually have admiration for you that you can come around and say, whoa, was I wrong, God bless America for being a place where you can admit that you’re wrong and get a second bite at the apple.
Let me go back to when McCarthy made communism into a joke or it was allowed to become a joke, nobody — we don’t even call China Red China anymore. Communism isn’t anything to be feared. In fact, there’s a lot of people — in fact, I just read something in the Yale paper today that communism or socialism will cure what ails America today.
GLENN: What happened, tell me what happened to the Democratic party and wake some of the Democrat — because I really, truly believe most Democrats are good Americans, love their country just like me. But they have been duped and hijacked by socialists, by communists and been taken over and nobody will pay attention because it’s a communist has become a joke. Am I wrong?
HOROWITZ: Not. I mean, you get called a McCarthy-ite. If you point out that there are actually people who have these views. What happened at the Democratic party happened in 1972, and I actually was appalled. I never considered myself a Democrat. I was a radical. And then I saw Tom Hayden and Jane Fonda. Tom Hayden had just three years earlier, McGovern for the younger people ran in 1972. In 1969 to 1970, Tom Hayden was advocating military uprisings, guerilla warfare in American cities conducted by American radicals and saying that the country was going fascist and that we would be in jail within a year. I mean, I knew Hayden and that’s what he was saying. In 1972 he and Fonda organized caucuses among Democrats with the help of Democratic congressmen like (inaudible). To get America to cut off aid to the South Vietnamese and the Cambodians. And the left, part of the Democratic party and part of the McGovern apparatus, the party was formed that created these caucuses. So for the legislative party and the political apparatus, came under the control of the left, the same left that had been in the streets in the Sixties calling for revolution and, you know, it’s called — it’s called a boring from within. Which is to transform the system by becoming part of it and using its own instrumentalities and institutions to overthrow it.
GLENN: You know, I’m reading — have you ever read any Skousen? Have you read — do you remember "The Naked Communist"?
GLENN: I went back and reread that, it was printed in the 1950s. I reread that recently. You look at all the things the communists wanted to accomplish, it’s all been done. It’s all been done.
HOROWITZ: Here’s the way I measure what’s happened to the Democratic party and the country. John F. Kennedy was a Reagan Democrat.
HOROWITZ: He was a militant anticommunist. He was a hawk on the fence. He had the largest military buildup in peace time history in his three years in office. He was for a balanced budget and a capital gains tax cut, and the cabinet was composed of, you know, Republicans. Defense, treasury and Secretary of State. If John Kennedy were alive today, he would be called a right wing conservative.
GLENN: Oh, yeah.
HOROWITZ: That’s how far the Democratic party has moved to the left. Yet when I read the "New York Times," for example, on Sunday, had two books on the McGovern campaign. And of the reviewers, one of whom is a Provost at Columbia said, well, the Republican party has gone far to the right but not — the Democratic party is just a moderate party.
GLENN: I’ve got to tell you, I think that the Republicans have become the Democrats. They are the —
HOROWITZ: They shifted to the left dramatically.
GLENN: Yeah. I mean, they’re still for big government. I mean, David, it almost looks like it is an intentional breaking of our spine economically by what — I mean, here we are. We’re facing anywhere between 50 and $100 trillion in debt, about four or five years away that’s going to come due and yet they are talking about dogpiling even more debt on. It doesn’t make any sense.
HOROWITZ: You know, the problem is twofold. One, that in our system it’s called buying votes. That’s what government spending is about.
HOROWITZ: Democrats do it as a religion. Republicans have adopted it as a tactic but then also they — the worst thing I can say about Bush’s presidency and, you know, I’m with you on borders and all these things.
HOROWITZ: Is that he hasn’t fought the war as home. He doesn’t ask for sacrifices. When you fight a war, it’s expensive. You’ve got to go and you’ve got to cut stuff. Why didn’t they go and slash some domestic programs for the poor. Why wasn’t Bush on television every week in a press conference exploiting new — while we’re at war, they failed to bring the American people along with them. And that is absolutely the source of our problem.
GLENN: That’s right. Because you feel like, I feel in a way like we’ve been lied to, that we don’t even feel like we’re in war. He should have been saying this is the fight of our life. This is the fight of our life. When I say that on the air, when I say, guys, this is World War III, it’s just 1939, you just don’t know yet, people always say, well, why isn’t the President saying stuff like that? Why don’t I hear that from anybody else? It is the lie. It’s not about weapons of mass destruction. That’s the lie.
HOROWITZ: Exactly. The whole Democratic case actually was built on lies.
HOROWITZ: You know, the President’s too polite or, you know, I don’t know what’s wrong with him that he doesn’t point this out.
GLENN: Got my theorys.
HOROWITZ: Every Democrat who voted for the war, the majority of them in the Senate knew, had all the intelligence that Bush had. They had the national intelligence estimate. They voted for the war based on our intelligence…
GLENN: David, I’ve got to run. I’m up against a network break but I’d love to have you on again, sir. Fascinating history. Thank you very much.
HOROWITZ: All right.
GLENN: David Horowitz.