Ah yes I can see the headlines now for the movie:

“CLIMATE GATE 2: Here we go again with the lies and spin…”

Facts are very clear in the matter, they distorted and fabricated the data they started with to achieve a desired end result — fraud and conspiracy in the clear.

Just because many prominent people sincerely believe and promote that the world is flat, and a few popular naysayers do not, does not mean it is not so.  (Take the risk and join those few kooks who say it is an oblate spheroid.)

GandolfTheWise

The question that everyone should be asking, If those in the government, Either dem or repub, and they were working for you, would you pay them. I think both the senate and the house members should be ashame of what they are doing, And I for one would like to see everyone of those incomponets fired, 2012 we will have a chance to clear the mess up or at least start. If the person is up for reelection and has been there for more that two terms, Then it is the responsibility of every voter to vote these over educated, over payed, and underworked creeps out of office, Because if you think they are looking out for your interest, them you deserve them, and you can keep kissing your frog and “HOPE” he/she will turn into a fairy God Mother, Because that’s all you will have. And of course the useless occupiers, as a side show. Peace!!!!

I always said “when there were ice ages, there were no hummers” so its clearly nature changing nothing more.  Also, anyone who tells you “you can buy a carbon credit” is so full of bull- biggest financial scheme of all time- people are so dumb.

The ugly reality is we can trust no one today. This country will fail when people in all our of institutions, businesses, courts, academia, science, medicine and the media are mostly dishonest, corrupt, power-hungry, immoral and unethical. But that is to be expected when the One who, as the creator of all, has been thrown aside, forgotten, mocked, disparaged, blasphemed, and taken out of our political as well as individual lives.

Where can I get these emails? Quotes are nice and all, but they lack the most important, most vital thing: CONTEXT. I can’t send any of my friends to this page because of the lack of context. Context is 100% vital.

I got this from the top of this post.  Maybe it is what you are looking for.

If we are affecting climate (warming) , so what!  After all, we may be just extending the length of the Holocene interglacial warm period, much to our advantage.
 

If we are affecting climate (warming) so what!!  Maybe we may be just extending the Holocene interglacial period, much to our advantage.

I find it hard to believe that people can be so dense. Have they forgotten the cycles our Earth has already gone through? Example: the Ice Ages and we’ve managed to survive. Remember the old commercial? “It’s not nice to fool Mother Nature” and that’s exactly what they seem to be doing. God and nature take care of things if we’d all just stay out of the way. If the earth didn’t have ‘climate change’ then how would we ever have the seasons? Just another sleazy way for someone to make a buck, and frankly, I don’t think Gore, the instigator (or is it inventor) would know climate change if it came up and slapped him in the face!

I agree. The whole climate change myth is completely ridiculous. The only ones it has been good for are the corrupt. They are laughing all the way to the bank. 

All I have to say is follow the money!  These people are all morally corrupt.

There are 600 year, 8,000 year, and 20,000 year cycles that have to do with our solar system moving through our Milky Way galaxy.  The 20,000 year cycle has MASIVE climate changes over most areas of the planet.  This is normal.  Just like the Moon (and Sun) pulls at the water of the oceans causing tides, the movement of the Earth through our Milky Way galaxy causes equally strong pull on the entire planet, bulging our liquid iron core and deforming it, causing tectonic plate shifts and massive earthquakes.

The Krakatoa volcanic eruption of 1883 released more “greenhouse” gases than the entire manmade output since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, and then some.  The blast (August 26-27, 1883) released more energy than 13,000 A-bombs equal to that which devastated Hiroshima at the end of WW II.  AND, it ejected roughly 5 cubic miles of dirt, rock, ash, and pyroclastic into the atmosphere.  That is a chunk of Earth 5 miles wide by 5 miles thick and 5 miles long in one 24 hour period.  The shock wave from the explosion reverberated around the earth 7 times and weather patterns were disrupted for years.  The Earth’s regional temperatures did not return to normal until 1888 or 5 years later.  This from just one volcano that obliterated a large island, upwards of 120,000 persons regionally, and disrupted vast areas of the Earth’s climate.  ALL of its destructive effects were absorbed, washed, and rinsed away in a few short years (geologically speaking) with verdant jungles, vast populations of organisms, and even man returning almost immediately afterwards.  That was JUST one volcano, and they go off all the time, just not as cataclysmic as this one, all at once.  Mankind, with all our cooking pits, ovens, cars, furnaces, factories, power plants, smelters, refineries, ironworks, steelworks, nuclear tests, rockets into space, etc., etc., etc… –  LOTS of heat energy released and LOTS of greenhouse gasses, small by comparison.
 
In short, all the heat energy and resultant warming, all the greenhouse gasses trapping that heat and all the bogus science from the anthropogenic global warming quacks does not hold a candle (pun intended) nor put a dent in the heat absorbed by the Earth from solar irradiance on a regular day.  ALSO, every once-in-awhile when a really good solar flare erupts in the direction of Earth, we get bathed in plasma energy and heat that is so strong and intense that it can disrupt the flow of electrons in the wires of the electrical grid, fry circuit panels in satellites, and bend radio waves to where they are indecipherable by receivers.  THAT is climate change in the birthing.
 
Our anthropogenic heat and greenhouse gas “poop” are infinitesimal in affect.  Sure, a rock thrown into a pond will create a wave and a good pee will add to the ocean, but it doesn’t have anywhere near the effect as a storm driving waves or a tropical downpour in Bangkok, which happen ALL the time, day in and day out.  The Climate Science guys and Al Gore are idiots and liars.  This is about government control and money… make no anthropological mistake about it.

Ummm.. Cut off their funding NOW!!!  Then they can #Occupy a real job!!!!

Climategate/Global warming is all a “hoax” !! – big time !!!   A. Gore is reaping the harvest of his fraud – it is making him a multi-millionare – he is such a “low life” and it is really sickening – to say the least !  Is Obama going to raise his taxes??????????????
I just wish we had a George Washington – I’m so sick of these “frauds” and ” liars” in our government.  Its all about POWER AND MONEY !!!   Disgusting !!

LexBob:  Thanks for all the fun-facts about climate, but you’ve come nowhere close to proving your premise (and GBs) that anthropogenic global warming (AGW) science is bad.   Sure, the sun could explode in supernova and exceed any effects CO2 emissions could have on climate.   That doesn’t mean AGW isn’t changing our climate.  AGW scientists say that the majority of temperature change over the last century is man-made, and a mountain of scientific papers supports their view.  Can you cite credible scientific papers (even one) that show something else is causing our measurable changes in climate?

it is happening but it is not us that is doing it. sun spots and other natural causes are doing it. to say that the earth is at its hotest today is also a bunch of bs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Earth look at the before and after of earth which one looks hoter number one or number two. the world full of water or the one full of lava and they are shock when we call their work fake.  Al Gore is a joke. http://youtu.be/oZrhG2iT3H0

Snow – Once again I say, “Facts are such a nuisance.”  Me thinks that rushing this “new science” as settled was political.  Had to get the laws in place so they wouldn’t have to deal with all the flaws and inconsistencies in their theory.

Once science becomes law it often becomes dogma and is seldom reversed.  They’re obviously more worried about their reputations than truth and the negative effects of their proposed solutions on hundreds of millions people worldwide.

Where are their ethics and morality?  And they say they’re the one’s who really care about people.

If the science hasn’t been settled on the cause (5 suggested causes) and scope (regional or global) of a recent significant event like the Little Ice Age (300-500 years ending approximately in 1850), how can they be sure the science has been settled on events that haven’t occurred?

I’m wary of politicized science.  Political decisions involving drastic changes, having many negative impacts on societies world wide, must be taken seriously and should be based on hard and verified science.  It’s not even clear that global warming trends would be significantly changed if all the proposed measures were implemented. 

Of course, the since the Little Ice Age ended 150+ years ago, we can’t exactly take regional/global measurements like we can today, right? 

The science is fairly well settled on what’s already happening and measured, and these effects will increase.  Of course policy toward this should be taken seriously, though that’s not what I see happening in this country (rather science is being dismissed).

I’m also wary of politicized science — congressman, political websites and TV networks such as this one deciding that the majority of scientists in just one field — climate science — must be wrong merely because there are political implications.  *That’s* politicized science.

It’s my understanding that much of the data has “gone missing” and many instruments were placed in questionable areas.

Fairly well settled isn’t good enough, especially since the proposed solutions are so draconian.  The proponents seem to be arrogantly dismissive of even moderates on this issue.  “We’re the experts, sit down and shut up.”

Politicization of science – then there are the government grants to scientists, let alone a lack of honest debate over opposing opinions, even from many Global Warming supporters who dare to question cause and the wisdom of the solutions proposed.

I’m old enough to remember the impending ice age theory advanced a few decades ago.  This theory faded away without explanation.  Granted science has improved since then, but it will also improve in the future.  

I won’t jump on the band wagon of the latest scientific theory advanced.  Further study, proof, and debate is required.  More recently unforeseen – the closing of the Antarctic ozone hole contributing to Global Warming. 

Over time a minute miscalculation becomes more and more significant and often alters outcomes.

“It’s my understanding that much of the data has “gone missing” and many instruments were placed in questionable areas.” — Well, then let’s see if there’s a misunderstanding.  What gave you the impression that the data that shows global warming is missing?
“Fairly well settled isn’t good enough” — I’m talking about fairly well settled, like tobacco smoking causing cancer.  At what points was that evidence enough for action to be taken to improve public health?  (long, long ago)  And at what level of probability is AGW worth acting upon, 90%?  95%?  99%?  It’s not efficient to wait for 100% if it means the earth becoming inhospitable.

“Politicization of science – then there are the government grants to scientists,”  Are you honestly suggesting that political parties are funding the conclusion that Global warming is human-caused?  Then why have scientists drawn the same conclusion through 5 republican administrations during the last 30 years? 

“A lack of honest debate” — where is there a lack of honest debate?   Scientists are always debating issues, including this one.  

“I won’t jump on the band wagon of the latest scientific theory advanced.”  How about supporting a theory that’s more than 3 decades old? That’s how long AGW theory has been around, and about how long it took to progress from Einstein’s theory of relativity to starting to make atomic bombs.  AGW is not a new theory.  

“Over time a minute miscalculation becomes more and more significant and often alters outcomes.”  That sounds like a rationalization more than a scientific objection.  Instead show where the miscalculation is so science and the human race can benefit!

I agree.  For instance, follow the money of the American Petroleum Institute, which has much to gain by lobbying against global warming solutions.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Petroleum_Institute#Lobbying

So-called “climate change” is a scam by the left to implement Socialism and to destroy Capitalism.
The lefties use environmental rules to bankrupt businesses and consolidate their control over us.

The whole climate scare is a swindle, pure and simple!

you forgot about all the Meteorologist many of them stand aganist gobal warming to. http://www.examiner.com/weather-in-denver/meteorologists-continue-to-challenge-global-warming-theory ood it is their job to study weather and people like duplicitowse live in Al Gore land refuse to see facts. infact you can not predect past ten days all to well so how in the hell do they think temptures are going up in 50 years when you can not predect past ten days of weather forcasting. the earth is cooling to not heating up which should shut these greenes up but like you said they are useing it for their aganda. i think it is more mother nature. i am with you  politicized science needs to make way for real science.

That last comment is just priceless –
Quote – “Can you…… show SOMETHING ELSE IS CAUSING OUR MEASURABLE CHANGES IN CLIMATE”?
Nature?????
Can YOU show me ONE credible scientific paper that shows that the ‘human induced element’ of CO2, increases global temperatures, as is the premise of AGW (conspiracy)theorists?
It is very difficult to discuss every facet of this sham on this forum (so many strands of horsesh*t to discuss at any one time).
For info, your abit out of date with your knowledge, AGW is so yesterday (almost literally) its all about the extreme weather phenomena now, please catch up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-15698183
By all accounts, our (humans) air conditioning, flat screen TVs, SUVs and flatulence, is going to increase weather??? Aren’t we all just evil??? 
DON’T PANIC though, everything is going to be ok, because my taxes next year are apparently going to fix the global climate problem (whatever that is?) settle the weather down to a constant average (whatever that is?), and allow developing nations such as China, India, Brazil and Mexico to pump up more CO2 into the atmosphere than my country of residence ever could, but presumably this won’t affect the weather too much (nothing to see here)
Do me a favour, could you please explain what you mean when you refer to ‘Measurable changes in climate’? There I was under the impression that historically, the climate, has constantly changed? It appears weather is a predictable, constant and never changes afterall. You learn something everyday, don’t you? ;)

Having no illusions about O.,I distinctly re member when after he was elected,I was inclined to curb a particular form of speach….and thinking: This is what they want,this what this Presidency is going to inflic on an unsuspecting public…and I’ll be danged if I’ll except his contrieved policies,and dictates,in all forms…otherwise we concide our liberties w/o a whimper…I chose to fight all forms of tyranny-this is but one…and endorced by O.,to curb our freedoms,by his endorsement of same.Well know Metorologists refute these allogations.meanwhile O. is shutting down,and causing an outsourcing of our natural resources just to remain viable,and profitable.

I can cite a credible metologist that says the data is wrong-Craig Johnson,and what’s with firing the opposing views? To shut up the opposition! Among a host of other Meteologists because they were voicing an opposing stance.

to make this arguement simple for you (I’m a farmer) :All plant life and otherwise DEPEND on CO2….the life forms “inhale” CO2 (FOOD) to live and thrive….then convert their bi-product into basically starch to sugar,back into Oxygen,which we need. A symbiotic relationship which Depends
on all factors cooperating together to balance Earths Atmosphereic requirements to sustain Life……….in a nutshell…simple enough for you?

The only thing we Can count on is Change.   Hopefully,this will include OBUMMER, and his excuses to rip the fabric of our society apart.  

                               Smiles

I can hear Alan Colmes getting ready to say to Bill OReilly that these emails aren’t a big deal. Ah, it’s just a couple of isolated scientists. No amount of evidence will convince some far-left idiots that global warming (or climate change as the emails suggest we call it) is a scam designed to facilitate global socialism.

We actually have diaries,and land records in this family,dating back before that event,and including the “Little Freeze”,which describe the events leading up TO the killing winter (Spring). A treasure trove of daily life in Farming country…we also lost family members in this horrible weather event.

I have seen no commentary that the “Medieval Climate Optimum” hurt any populations in Europe or N. America.  Perhaps it made the English Channel easier and safer to cross in 1066 for the Normans,  I don’t know.  It made possible the colonization of Greenland by the Vikings.  (The ensuing “Little Ice Age” ended that project.)  Europe also benefited.   At this moment, in Southeast Michigan, the weather is warmer than average, although the record temperature for Nov. 23 was 68 or so, in 1927(!)  and I am quite pleased that it doesn’t freeze every night.  I have a farming background and longer seasons are good for farmers.  In the 1930′s Northern Michigan (between Mount Pleasant and Big Rapids) had about a 90 day growing season, which made farming there somewhat challenging, 90-day corn being a low-yield variety.
Politicized science is always bad.  Remember Eugenics in the 1920′s?  Improve the population by selective breeding of humans?

Meteorology is a separate field from climatology.  Meterologists are the guys on the 6:00 news, not the guys doing the climate science.

lucas4england:  As you requested, here’s one paper concluding that global warming is human-cased (anthropogenic).
http://www.fel.duke.edu/~scafetta/pdf/2007JD008437.pdf

Now, can you show one academic paper that shows it’s not human-caused?

And yes, I’ll explain what I said about measurable climate change.  The *weather* changes every day.  The global global average temperature *does not*, and is remarkably stable year-to-year — makes sense considering earth is a relatively closed system (the attached paper proves that it’s not changes in solar irradiance that’s changing the temperature of the earth).  The global average temperature *is* increasing, and the increase is accelerating.  This is what’s meant by “climate change.”PS  the USA has pumped far more CO2 per capita into the atmosphere than any other country in the world.  We’re only being passed by China because they have 5X the population.

Ryan Frederick, please see my notes in another post here about the difference between regional weather and global climate.  Summary: just because your backyard is getting colder or warmer does not mean the whole planet is; when the whole planet *is* getting warmer (which it is), eventually you’ve got much bigger problems than the weather in your backyard.  

And this field comes from where? Their degrees emcompass both fields ,unless you’re primarily an anchor on the 6 o’clock news.

Both Climatologists and Meteorologists are Atmospheric Scientists, but they are not the same thing.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_sciences  Here’s an article about some of the differences: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/30/science/earth/30warming.html?pagewanted=all  This reminds me of psychologists and psychiatrists who often disagree when it comes to how to treat a patient — psychologists generally recommend less medication, more therapy because it’s what they’re actually qualified to do.

Please tell me you are joking with this paper?
a) It is from 2007, which is an age in the Climate Change field of study. As I mentioned earlier the IPCC can’t say with certainty* (this is key, no matter how you want to spin it) that global warming is occuring, will occur in the future, and what weather phenomena will increase or decrease, opting to use terms such as likely, low confidence, medium confidence etc etc. (http://ipcc-wg2.gov/SREX/)
I will be more commited to my prediction than the IPCC. The weather/climate WILL change in the future, temps will go up and come down, depending on the comparative timescale you use, a significant factor often missed, if I look at figures over 2 years or 100 years, the results will be different than if I look at figures over 20 years or 10,000 years, see. Some figures suggest there has been no global warming for over 15 years, others do, which do you believe? I predict with 100% certainty that there WILL be future extreme weather phenomena that will be increasingly reported by the worlds media as proof of Climate Change or whatever the flavour of the month term is being banded about at that time. This will cause increased amount of death and financial disaster due to increases in population and urbanisation. Now thats commitment, I should bill the government for my services.
This raises the question however as to why your belief in AGW is so much greater than that of the authorities who are (sort of) publishing supporting evidence and driving international policy? Are you privy to some unknown research which confirms it beyond a shadow of a doubt or are is your faith in the mantra, greater than the (lack of) evidence suggests. I think there is a word for this…….sucker
b) I will have to give you an example to highlight this next point. A meterologist decides to measure the temperature of a small area, a few square kms in size, over a 10 year period. He takes the temp every day. During the first year, he observes a basic thermometer on the wall of his place of work, and makes a note of the temp at several periods of the day and records the high. The second year, he decides to do a similar thing, but thinks he will stick the thermometer outside his premises, incase it affects the reading. He uses the same recording method. The following year, he changes the thermometer to a digital reader, which he must put on the roof of his premises, which electronically records the days high. The year after, he decides to measure the temp at 1000 meters, on top of a local mountain/hill. The year after, he plots several thermometers across the square plot and takes an average. The year after he is provided with a synchronised global thermometer from the UN, which sends the data to a central location. At the end of the 10 year period there shows a distinct upward trend in temperature. ARE HIS RESULTS RELIABLE???
Now take this and multiply it by 10′s of thousands of interchangeable destinations all over the globe, at different sea levels, with different equipment, taken with different levels of diligence and regularity, and all having different secondary temperature influences potentially at different times, over several hundred years.
I have to say, I don’t know how anyone could possibly question the accuracy. WE ARE ALL GONNA FRY!  
You know full too well that the field of Climate study does not allow results questionning the theory to be published in scientific journals. I know a chap who worked for the Dept of Climate Change, Oz who wasn’t allowed by his superiors, to publish results which called in to question AGW? There are others.
In summary, you can NOT prove that humans are causing Climate Change/Global Warming etc, that paper certainly does not show this, too much use of the word ‘if’ in the conclusion (3 in the first paragraph, I also see a propensity for the words, assume and might. These are not confidence inducing words. Paragraph 42, the final paragraph starts with “In conclusion, if we assume…” Scafetta and West, 2007. I am sold ). I can NOT prove humans are not solely causing it. So all we can do is use supplementary circumstantial evidence to come to a conclusion, and all that evidence is sat in the camp of the skeptic. There are too many questions, no way to control variables in studies to prove that CO2 is the big driver of global warming, or that warming is occuring, or the consequences of such warming. Now, I have no problem with Science asking these questions. Science needs to ask these questions, but, and its a but on a biblical scale. There is no way that unelected powers should be influencing my life on nothing more than a hunch.

I missed a very important factor about the paper you enclose. You remember the one which stipulates humans CO2 emmissions are driving GLOBAL temperatures. 
Quote – We compare different preindustrial temperature and solar datareconstruction scenarios since 1610.

1610? Really? When was the US founded again? Not in 1610 eh? What about Australia? Nope, that wasn’t around either.
Do Scafetta and West happen to have the temperature readings for China during the 17th and 18th Century, What about Russia? Were Lenin and Stalin using the relative state of hypothermia of dissidents to quantify general temperatures during the early 20th century.
Africa? Could you please divulge the average winter temperature of the Okavango Delta for the year 1645, no? What about 1698? 1734? 1762? Surely your ilk must have them for 1788?
Middle East? I presume the Bedouin, were scrutinized to see how many cotton sheets they were using in the winter of 1612 as an indicator of regional climate? I can see the study article now ‘A historical analysis of the sleeping habits of the Bedouin as an indicator for global warming’. Infact keep that under your hat, I might take that to the Climate Change Dept, see if they would fund a trip to Dubai. Happy Days
So, when we are using temperature data back to 1610 as evidence of increased GLOBAL temps, I wonder, are we really using temperature data from 1610 or are just we p*ssing in the ‘human induced, ever increasing’ wind? It seems to me that it sounds better, more thorough, than saying, well we only have conclusive, global data over the past 30 years. Not quite as effective when we are discussing GLOBAL warming is it?

i geuss he still don’t get it. they can not predect the weather past ten days with any accuracy let alone 50 years. LOL! i geuss you can’t reason with the left. their is also sun spots and other natural cuases but they still blame us for a small amount. the sun going to get hotter the more gas it burns up. http://www.skepticalscience.com/acrim-pmod-sun-getting-hotter.htm infact it would be getting more hotter the more fusion happens the hotter it gets ontill the sun eats the earth. it also does not help we are in the soalar maximum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_maximum and if sun spot do what science says it does then it is going to get hot. funny thing is this last about 12 years before we reach solar minimum. the solar maximum started around the same time when Al Gore said the world was going to melt  isn’t astronomy fun!

lucas4england:

Obviously temperature reconstructions are important for scientists to show the long term changes in climate.  As you seem to agree in principle, it’s better to have data over a longer period of time.

But you don’t like reconstructions because they are not direct real-time temperature measurements.  And you don’t like real-time temperature measurements because human/experimental error is possible.  You don’t like 4-year old papers even if they haven’t been disproven by a later paper. You have not accepted the challenge to cite a single paper that explains the temperature increase of the last 100 years via any natural cause.  

In summary, you don’t seem to like science, because in this case it disagrees with your political beliefs (as someone said, “politicized science”).

AlsoThe explosion of Krakatoa caused a mini ice age during that period “NO” global warming of any sort.

Actually dimwit,
Not one piece of scientific evidence has ever been produced to say that the climate is even warming let alone is man caused. A myth is all it is. By the way if these mythical greenhouse gases would stop the heat of the sun from eminating back into the cosmos it would also stop the heat of the sun from ever reaching the earth. I/E the mini Ice age following the eruption of Krakatoa. Go on keep drinking your koolaid and running around yelling the sky is falling!!

Wrong the average mean global temperature changes daily, yearly, within decaders and centuries. “Oh know the last great Ice Age ended that can’t be because the earths climate and teperature are static.” ( Yes I’m being sarcastic) The climate has and will always be dynamic. “Oh I’m scared a n academic paper claims climate change is real!” The top climatologist ( not academics ) in the world have claimed it as false. “Go ahead keep make believing, maybe Barbi will go for GI joe instead of Ken”

“The top climatologist (not academics) in the world have claimed it is false.”  Okay, tell us please, who are the top climatologists in the world who refute this?

You are simply wrong, VonRichtofen.  There is plenty of scientific evidence the climate is warming:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/evidence-for-global-warming.htm

Warming is not a “myth” and it’s not in dispute.  

February 2007 interview with PBS’s Frontline:

    “I think if you have mandatory carbon caps combined with a trading system, much like we did
with sulfur, and if you have a tax-incentive program for investing in the solutions, that there’s
a package there that’s very, very good. And frankly, it’s something I would strongly support….
If [George W. Bush] had instituted a regime that combined three things I just said — mandatory
caps, a trading system inside the caps, as we have with clean air, and a tax incentive to be able
to invest in the new technology and to be able to produce the new technology — I think we would
be much better off than we are in the current situation.” –  Newt Gingrich

That sounds like Cap and Trade to me; why? well he used the words “cap” and “trade.”

     As the world’s fossil fuel resources are depleted, the cost of energy derived from combustion of fossil fuels will continue to increase. Historically, energy costs have increased about 5% per year doubling every 15 years. Of course, if Cap & Trade legislation is passed, the rate of increase will be much more rapid.
    As renewable energy technologies are improved, the cost of energy derived from renewable sources is decreasing. It can be expected that soon renewable energy will be more economical than energy from fossil fuels.
     Last year, Zenith Solar in Israel introduced a concentrating solar collector that converts 32% of incident solar radiation to electricity and also converts about 40% of the incident solar energy to thermal energy. Please visit Zenith Solar’s website for an excellent description of this technology. Their design is proven.
     I am a Mechanical Engineer and I have designed a solar collector which substantially improves on Zenith Solar’s technology. Patent is pending and I am trying to build a prototype.
     It should be noted that one beautiful aspect of this technology is that it does not have to be tied to the grid ( and controlled by governments ). Energy independence and self-sufficiency is possible.
     The IPCC scientists have taken a very meager set of historical temperature data and after grossly manipulating this insufficient data set tell us that the average temperature of the world has increased by 1/2 of a degree. They present their findings with no margin for error. And people believe them? 
     As the use of renewable energy resources begin to supplant the combustion of fossil fuels, more and more people will become independent of the Grid and begin to achieve a degree of independence that the governments obviously do not want. Hence the false man-made accusation of man-caused global warming. They will not be successful.

your take on it is like mine,when they take a core sample from trees,they don’t take into acount a lot of the data is’nt there to work with,because it’s not stable,and disapates. All they cac depect is whether the tree ring growthwas rapid,or spaced(warmer or cooler ,for a number of years. Even with the ice core samples,I think basicly it’s the same).

I would just like to know if it it coincidental that your name is duplicit? Do some real research, try to figure out why these so-called scientists, who are paid to come up with this nonsense are so worried about being caught, hiding their own research, and having to change the name from global warming to climate change if this is indeed “settled science?”.

first i got the wrong link this is what i was looking for.http://www.sott.net/articles/show/234213-Global-Warming-Caused-by-Cosmic-Rays-and-the-Sun-Not-Humans it is your right. like i pointed out the earth was a lava waste land if you believe scince. even since it has been keeping the same temp more or less.back when the dinos walk the earth their were a few heat spikes like this. astronomers and climatologist have been fighting it out. most astronomers are with then but they also say that things like sun spots and other events from space are haveing an effect. climatologist will not move on it. they still want to blame us. oh how that makes me mad! they are in it for the money and their party this has nothing to do with scince or the earth. that is why the left deffend this it is an easy way to eat away at this country like a cancer. fake scince thats all it is. they are trying to use us with fear. nothing new from the progs i geuss. this is what we need to do think for ourself. the hate Beck some much for opening are minds and hearts. we will win someday i can feel it.

It won’t let me reply to your last post, so I am doing it here.
Sorry you aren’t going to wriggle out of this one  
Quote – Obviously temperature reconstructions are important for scientists to show the long term changes in climate.
Once again, I have no issue with science using whatever method it wants to evaluate the history of (semi) global temperatures, they could ask Gaia personally, I don’t give a rats ass. What I take issue with, is the fact they then purport their findings to be something they are not, i.e. Global rather than regional and accurate to a 10th of a degree (claims of increases of 1.5-2.5 degrees etc), yet they then scare my kids at school about the impending global fry up and give them guilt trips to make the most stable of humans suicidal. Finally they fleece the content of my bank account all due to results of their pathetic findings. If the older findings were out by just 1 degree, that is 1 degree, then we have a massive issue with modern findings. Now I am sorry, not even modern methods of temperature reading are synchronised to within 1 degree. The weather show is never exact to the temp reading at my work or in my car or with those littered around shops in town etc etc. So there is NO WAY on earth that looking at Ice thickness in one corner of the globe or tree rings in a few places is representative of global temperatures.
Now lets look at global average temps shall we. We have deduced that there was no such things as global temperature readings in 1610 to compare against, there was possibly, to a certain extent, in Europe and maybe 1 or 2 centres across the world (possibly). These were averaged off to give a best guess scenario. What happens, when you factor in the averages of the US in the 18th and 19th century, same with Australia (its pretty hot down here ). Then the Middle East, Africa, South East Asia, S.America etc etc. The average will automatically rise, because these places are indeed hotter than Europe. “Holy toledo Batman, look at the Avg Global temps, they have increased dramatically since Australia and Africa came on line (now theres a surprise), it must be because of all the sheep that live down there, or the coal they mine, quick tax the f*ck out of them”.
Money makes the world go round……oh and global temperatures decrease. Amazing.
You say I don’t like Science. WRONG!!! I don’t like BAD science that changes the political agenda of the earth (really who is involved in politicised science, the skeptics or the warmists? The skeptics want the truth, whilst warmists are happy to propogate sh*t that attempts to justify their embarrassing theory and block attempts to prove otherwise, douche!). I want to know the TRUTH before I start living in my freezer and putting sandbags outside my front door to escape the impending tidal rises.
Finally,
Quote -  You have not accepted the challenge to cite a single paper that explains the temperature increase of the last 100 years via any natural cause.  
You are spectacularly missing the point here. Warmists came up with the theory (eventually) that human produced CO2 output increases global temps, yes? That means the onus is very much on the Warmists to PROVE (beyond reasonable doubt) that the above premise is true. The skeptics DO NOT have to prove that there is another reason that the climate may or may not be changing, nature has done this on its own for millenia. All skeptics have to prove is that the methodology, and the findings of warmists are indeed a crock of……. If warmists were correct, they would be able to be stand up to scrutiny. THEY CAN NOT, thus intimating that currently, at this moment in time, more research needs to be carried out before we brainwash the children of the world.
You and your ilk, use questionable historical temperature data to bodge a theory which has changed the global political landscape (and skeptics are the politicised ones? Honestly, you couldn’t write this), but when I suggest that the history of natural fluctuations in climate are irrelevant as a reason to justify present climate instability that is not good enough. Why is it because I don’t have a few letters after my name? Well, I do, BSc. Thank you. I have never been paid a penny or a cent by big oil to question the theory of global warming. Yet I know for cert that the climatologists who are pushing this are being paid handsomly in the main from the public purse. If they turn round and say, ‘can you remember when we said humans CO2 output increases glnbal temps, well….. it wasn’t completely accurate’ funding drys up, and they are made to look publically like the liars and mugs they are. now stick that accusation of politicised science up your pipe (It’ll cut greenhouse emissions ). For someone as intelligent as yourself, you really have no understanding of CRITICAL analysis do you?

Fightings what I’m good at,done it my whole life. I like all this links you put up! I eand up reading…..forever-Cool.
Problem is I ATE TOO MUCH…eyelids are droopy…smiles

i did to i feel your pain.

Actually, it’s quite the opposite. There’s not a single AGW model that has accurately predicted any changes in weather either past or present. Every one ‘fudges’ the results to match historic fact but when you try to apply the models, fudges and all, to ongoing trends, they all fail.

Now, these tweaks to models happen all the time (legitimately) but when they ONLY can make good data fit bad models, you see the bad results when you try to use them as a predictive measure. Every single AGW model fails this test and fails it miserably.

The overwhelming EVIDENCE is that warming temperatures drive CO2 levels, not the other way around. As to what drives the temperatures, that is an open question.

john karakash, you make the very bold claim that *all* the global warming models are fudged and that none of them predict climate change as expected. (you keep saying weather but these are not weather models so I assume you mean climate).So I’ll issue you a challenge:  name a single scientific source showing these models being disproved.  

lucas4england:  Since you obviously disagree with (though apparently misunderstand) the methods to date for measuring and reconstructing global average temperature, it would be interesting to hear if there *is* a method you would approve of.  Is there?  Perhaps you have a better suggestion, or perhaps you think it’s impossible and science shouldn’t try.While it’s true that there’s burden of proof to show that global warming is measurable and human-caused (I believe the existing science has met this burden of proof).  There’s also burden of proof on dissenting scientists to disprove the existing papers.  That’s how science works, Scientist A says, “X is true”, Scientist B follows up in another published paper and says “X if false, Y is actually true, and here’s why.”  What’s remarkable, is that none of confident skeptics here seem able to name Scientist B, and which paper(s) purportedly disprove Scientist A.  And until that happens, we are not having a scientific discussion here, we have having a political one. 

my co-worker’s sister makes $77 an hour on the laptop. She has been out of a job for 9 months but last month her paycheck was $7978 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Read this site CashHard.cÒm

Climate change is regardless a fact and so is the finite nature of our oil supply.

When they talk about the oceans getting warmer, why dont they ever mention the underwater volcanos that are heating up the oceans? There are earthquakes everyday, somewhere, volcanos lately have put more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, why havent they mentioned them? I think they just want someone to blame instead of looking to God, Who is trying to tell the world that He has just about had enough of mans disbelief and doing things mans own way instead of God’s way!

Again actions speak louder than words. To consider the health of the planet is not stupid, to consider what other plans exist to help America generate revenue is not stupid. To change your views after learning all the details is brilliant. This is straight from Gingrich, details as to why cap and trade is wrong. I bet you don’t even know the details of what cap and trade is let alone the economics of it. Newt actually took the time to weigh all of the options.  I would have just posted the link but I know you wouldn’t even bother looking at it. ——Newt Gingrich: Cap-and-Trade is another way of saying 2+2=5—–The Obama White House has spent the week furiously working to convince its fellow Democrats in Congress to support the global warming bill that’s before the House today. Former Vice President Al Gore has been working the phones, and there was even a luau at the White House last night. The question that must be asked, however, is why? If the case is closed on man’s role in causing climate change, as the left assure us that it is, then why the need to twist Democratic arms to do something about it? My guess is it has something to do with 2+2=4. This simple arithmetic – 2+2=4 – was a rallying cry during the Polish Solidarity freedom movement in the 1980s. It meant that, even though the government would try to tell the people that 2+2=5, to be free, the people had to tell the truth, that 2+2=4. Because to deny the truth was to deny reality, and to do that was to surrender freedom to the government. Something similar is happening with the global warming bill. The sponsors of the global warming bill, which is known as Waxman-Markey, are telling Americans that not only will the legislation save us from calamitous climate change, it will also produce new jobs and new prosperity by transitioning America to new forms of “green” energy. In other words, under Waxman-Markey, there’s no trade-off necessary to save the planet; no price to be paid. It’s a win-win-win. Right. And 2+2=5. The reality is that the bill before the House today imposes what could be the largest tax increase in history on the American people. And every single one of us who heats a home, drives a car, and manufactures or consumes products made in America will pay the price. Estimates are that the Waxman-Markey bill will raise electricity prices by an astounding 90 percent. It will raise gasoline prices by 74 percent. It will raise the average American family’s energy bill by $1,500 each year. And, far from creating jobs, experts predict that the global warming bill will destroy 1,105,000 jobs on average each year, with peak years seeing unemployment rise by over 2,479,000 jobs. All in all, the bill is expected to reduce our gross domestic production (GDP) by $9.6 trillion. And for what? Even if – if – the legislation works exactly as it is intended (a rare feat in Washington), in about 100 years the Earth’s temperature will be one tenth of one degree Celsius lower than the United Nations predicts it will otherwise be. The largest tax increase in history for a one-tenth of one degree temperature decline? No wonder the Obama Administration is working overtime on Capitol Hill. The bill’s sponsors are also assuring us that if America unilaterally imposes these new energy costs on itself, countries like China and India will be convinced to do the same by the overwhelming power of our example. This is another 2+2=5 message. The American people know that the authoritarians who rule China won’t be shamed into harming their own economy by the United States doing so first. It doesn’t matter how many times Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi repeat it. I’m a conservative who deeply believes we have a moral, economic and patriotic duty to protect our environment. I’ve written a book about green conservatism. I’ve even appeared in a commercial about the environment with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. But I don’t believe we can protect our environment with job-killing higher taxes and growth-stifling government regulation. Innovation and incentives have made America great. They are what will keep us great and protect our environment. But instead of rewarding innovation, this bill punishes Americans into living lives that the government wants them to live. Instead of recognizing that our energy problems are the result of politician who won’t let us develop domestic sources of energy, this bill punishes Americans for the faults of politicians and bureaucrats. Instead of opening up America’s vast resources of oil, natural gas, and coal, this bill guarantees that American will remain reliant on foreign dictators if we want to continue to drive cars, heat our homes and run our appliances. I believe in protecting our environment. I just don’t believe that 2+2=5. Neither, I suspect, do my fellow Americans whose representatives are voting on Capitol Hill today. Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has published 19 books, including 10 fiction and nonfiction best-sellers. He is the founder of the Center for Health Transformation and chairman of American Solutions for Winning the Future. For more information, see newt.org.   I would have just posted the link but I know you wouldn’t even bother looking atNewt Gingrich: Cap-and-Trade is another way of saying 2+2=5—–The Obama White House has spent the week furiously working to convince its fellow Democrats in Congress to support the global warming bill that’s before the House today. Former Vice President Al Gore has been working the phones, and there was even a luau at the White House last night. The question that must be asked, however, is why? If the case is closed on man’s role in causing climate change, as the left assure us that it is, then why the need to twist Democratic arms to do something about it? My guess is it has something to do with 2+2=4. This simple arithmetic – 2+2=4 – was a rallying cry during the Polish Solidarity freedom movement in the 1980s. It meant that, even though the government would try to tell the people that 2+2=5, to be free, the people had to tell the truth, that 2+2=4. Because to deny the truth was to deny reality, and to do that was to surrender freedom to the government. Something similar is happening with the global warming bill. The sponsors of the global warming bill, which is known as Waxman-Markey, are telling Americans that not only will the legislation save us from calamitous climate change, it will also produce new jobs and new prosperity by transitioning America to new forms of “green” energy. In other words, under Waxman-Markey, there’s no trade-off necessary to save the planet; no price to be paid. It’s a win-win-win. Right. And 2+2=5. The reality is that the bill before the House today imposes what could be the largest tax increase in history on the American people. And every single one of us who heats a home, drives a car, and manufactures or consumes products made in America will pay the price. Estimates are that the Waxman-Markey bill will raise electricity prices by an astounding 90 percent. It will raise gasoline prices by 74 percent. It will raise the average American family’s energy bill by $1,500 each year. And, far from creating jobs, experts predict that the global warming bill will destroy 1,105,000 jobs on average each year, with peak years seeing unemployment rise by over 2,479,000 jobs. All in all, the bill is expected to reduce our gross domestic production (GDP) by $9.6 trillion. And for what? Even if – if – the legislation works exactly as it is intended (a rare feat in Washington), in about 100 years the Earth’s temperature will be one tenth of one degree Celsius lower than the United Nations predicts it will otherwise be. The largest tax increase in history for a one-tenth of one degree temperature decline? No wonder the Obama Administration is working overtime on Capitol Hill. The bill’s sponsors are also assuring us that if America unilaterally imposes these new energy costs on itself, countries like China and India will be convinced to do the same by the overwhelming power of our example. This is another 2+2=5 message. The American people know that the authoritarians who rule China won’t be shamed into harming their own economy by the United States doing so first. It doesn’t matter how many times Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi repeat it. I’m a conservative who deeply believes we have a moral, economic and patriotic duty to protect our environment. I’ve written a book about green conservatism. I’ve even appeared in a commercial about the environment with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. But I don’t believe we can protect our environment with job-killing higher taxes and growth-stifling government regulation. Innovation and incentives have made America great. They are what will keep us great and protect our environment. But instead of rewarding innovation, this bill punishes Americans into living lives that the government wants them to live. Instead of recognizing that our energy problems are the result of politician who won’t let us develop domestic sources of energy, this bill punishes Americans for the faults of politicians and bureaucrats. Instead of opening up America’s vast resources of oil, natural gas, and coal, this bill guarantees that American will remain reliant on foreign dictators if we want to continue to drive cars, heat our homes and run our appliances. I believe in protecting our environment. I just don’t believe that 2+2=5. Neither, I suspect, do my fellow Americans whose representatives are voting on Capitol Hill today. Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has published 19 books, including 10 fiction and nonfiction best-sellers. He is the founder of the Center for Health Transformation and chairman of American Solutions for Winning the Future. For more information, see newt.org.
Again actions speak louder than words. To consider the health of the planet is not stupid, to consider what other plans exist to help America generate revenue is not stupid. To change your views after learning all the details is brilliant. This is straight from Gingrich, details as to why cap and trade is wrong. I bet you don’t even know the details of what cap and trade is let alone the economics of it. Newt actually took the time to weigh all of the options.  I would have just posted the link but I know you wouldn’t even bother looking atNewt Gingrich: Cap-and-Trade is another way of saying 2+2=5—–The Obama White House has spent the week furiously working to convince its fellow Democrats in Congress to support the global warming bill that’s before the House today. Former Vice President Al Gore has been working the phones, and there was even a luau at the White House last night. The question that must be asked, however, is why? If the case is closed on man’s role in causing climate change, as the left assure us that it is, then why the need to twist Democratic arms to do something about it? My guess is it has something to do with 2+2=4. This simple arithmetic – 2+2=4 – was a rallying cry during the Polish Solidarity freedom movement in the 1980s. It meant that, even though the government would try to tell the people that 2+2=5, to be free, the people had to tell the truth, that 2+2=4. Because to deny the truth was to deny reality, and to do that was to surrender freedom to the government. Something similar is happening with the global warming bill. The sponsors of the global warming bill, which is known as Waxman-Markey, are telling Americans that not only will the legislation save us from calamitous climate change, it will also produce new jobs and new prosperity by transitioning America to new forms of “green” energy. In other words, under Waxman-Markey, there’s no trade-off necessary to save the planet; no price to be paid. It’s a win-win-win. Right. And 2+2=5. The reality is that the bill before the House today imposes what could be the largest tax increase in history on the American people. And every single one of us who heats a home, drives a car, and manufactures or consumes products made in America will pay the price. Estimates are that the Waxman-Markey bill will raise electricity prices by an astounding 90 percent. It will raise gasoline prices by 74 percent. It will raise the average American family’s energy bill by $1,500 each year. And, far from creating jobs, experts predict that the global warming bill will destroy 1,105,000 jobs on average each year, with peak years seeing unemployment rise by over 2,479,000 jobs. All in all, the bill is expected to reduce our gross domestic production (GDP) by $9.6 trillion. And for what? Even if – if – the legislation works exactly as it is intended (a rare feat in Washington), in about 100 years the Earth’s temperature will be one tenth of one degree Celsius lower than the United Nations predicts it will otherwise be. The largest tax increase in history for a one-tenth of one degree temperature decline? No wonder the Obama Administration is working overtime on Capitol Hill. The bill’s sponsors are also assuring us that if America unilaterally imposes these new energy costs on itself, countries like China and India will be convinced to do the same by the overwhelming power of our example. This is another 2+2=5 message. The American people know that the authoritarians who rule China won’t be shamed into harming their own economy by the United States doing so first. It doesn’t matter how many times Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi repeat it. I’m a conservative who deeply believes we have a moral, economic and patriotic duty to protect our environment. I’ve written a book about green conservatism. I’ve even appeared in a commercial about the environment with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. But I don’t believe we can protect our environment with job-killing higher taxes and growth-stifling government regulation. Innovation and incentives have made America great. They are what will keep us great and protect our environment. But instead of rewarding innovation, this bill punishes Americans into living lives that the government wants them to live. Instead of recognizing that our energy problems are the result of politician who won’t let us develop domestic sources of energy, this bill punishes Americans for the faults of politicians and bureaucrats. Instead of opening up America’s vast resources of oil, natural gas, and coal, this bill guarantees that American will remain reliant on foreign dictators if we want to continue to drive cars, heat our homes and run our appliances. I believe in protecting our environment. I just don’t believe that 2+2=5. Neither, I suspect, do my fellow Americans whose representatives are voting on Capitol Hill today. Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has published 19 books, including 10 fiction and nonfiction best-sellers. He is the founder of the Center for Health Transformation and chairman of American Solutions for Winning the Future. For more information, see newt.org.
  I would have just posted the link but I know you wouldn’t even bother looking atNewt Gingrich: Cap-and-Trade is another way of saying 2+2=5—–The Obama White House has spent the week furiously working to convince its fellow Democrats in Congress to support the global warming bill that’s before the House today. Former Vice President Al Gore has been working the phones, and there was even a luau at the White House last night. The question that must be asked, however, is why? If the case is closed on man’s role in causing climate change, as the left assure us that it is, then why the need to twist Democratic arms to do something about it? My guess is it has something to do with 2+2=4. This simple arithmetic – 2+2=4 – was a rallying cry during the Polish Solidarity freedom movement in the 1980s. It meant that, even though the government would try to tell the people that 2+2=5, to be free, the people had to tell the truth, that 2+2=4. Because to deny the truth was to deny reality, and to do that was to surrender freedom to the government. Something similar is happening with the global warming bill. The sponsors of the global warming bill, which is known as Waxman-Markey, are telling Americans that not only will the legislation save us from calamitous climate change, it will also produce new jobs and new prosperity by transitioning America to new forms of “green” energy. In other words, under Waxman-Markey, there’s no trade-off necessary to save the planet; no price to be paid. It’s a win-win-win. Right. And 2+2=5. The reality is that the bill before the House today imposes what could be the largest tax increase in history on the American people. And every single one of us who heats a home, drives a car, and manufactures or consumes products made in America will pay the price. Estimates are that the Waxman-Markey bill will raise electricity prices by an astounding 90 percent. It will raise gasoline prices by 74 percent. It will raise the average American family’s energy bill by $1,500 each year. And, far from creating jobs, experts predict that the global warming bill will destroy 1,105,000 jobs on average each year, with peak years seeing unemployment rise by over 2,479,000 jobs. All in all, the bill is expected to reduce our gross domestic production (GDP) by $9.6 trillion. And for what? Even if – if – the legislation works exactly as it is intended (a rare feat in Washington), in about 100 years the Earth’s temperature will be one tenth of one degree Celsius lower than the United Nations predicts it will otherwise be. The largest tax increase in history for a one-tenth of one degree temperature decline? No wonder the Obama Administration is working overtime on Capitol Hill. The bill’s sponsors are also assuring us that if America unilaterally imposes these new energy costs on itself, countries like China and India will be convinced to do the same by the overwhelming power of our example. This is another 2+2=5 message. The American people know that the authoritarians who rule China won’t be shamed into harming their own economy by the United States doing so first. It doesn’t matter how many times Al Gore and Nancy Pelosi repeat it. I’m a conservative who deeply believes we have a moral, economic and patriotic duty to protect our environment. I’ve written a book about green conservatism. I’ve even appeared in a commercial about the environment with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. But I don’t believe we can protect our environment with job-killing higher taxes and growth-stifling government regulation. Innovation and incentives have made America great. They are what will keep us great and protect our environment. But instead of rewarding innovation, this bill punishes Americans into living lives that the government wants them to live. Instead of recognizing that our energy problems are the result of politician who won’t let us develop domestic sources of energy, this bill punishes Americans for the faults of politicians and bureaucrats. Instead of opening up America’s vast resources of oil, natural gas, and coal, this bill guarantees that American will remain reliant on foreign dictators if we want to continue to drive cars, heat our homes and run our appliances. I believe in protecting our environment. I just don’t believe that 2+2=5. Neither, I suspect, do my fellow Americans whose representatives are voting on Capitol Hill today. Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich has published 19 books, including 10 fiction and nonfiction best-sellers. He is the founder of the Center for Health Transformation and chairman of American Solutions for Winning the Future. For more information, see newt.org. Center for Health Transformation and chairman of American Solutions for Winning the Future. For more information, see newt.org.

Once again, I have to reply to a different message, apologies.
Quote - it would be interesting to hear if there *is* a method (of measuring temp) you would approve of.  Is there?  
A methodology which is universal and controlled throughout the period of the research investigation, i.e. not a mismatched joke of combining tree ring counting, ice core analysis, etc etc amongst other VARIED techniques and publishing them as being a) accurate and b) representative over the GLOBE, when, we know full too well that they are only of regional relevance. I imagine that is the minimum any undergraduate student can hope to achieve, to control the variables and the methodology, to produce semi reliable results.
Unfortunately for you and your cronies, that reduces the timescale of observations to perhaps the last 30 or 40 years, which is just tough luck, but least there is SOME reliability over the results.
I have to say at this point I am staggered that anyone who considers themselves well versed in Science could deem such methodologies as anything but wrong, unreliable, limited, yet still promote the results with a fervour reserved for religious and/or political fanaticism (maybe it is???).
Quote -  There’s also burden of proof on dissenting scientists to disprove the existing papers. That’s how science works, Scientist A says, “X is true”, Scientist B follows up in another published paper and says “X if false, Y is actually true, and here’s why.”  
We have already covered this. Scientist A (Warmists) say 2 things, A) GLOBAL temps are increasing and B) it is caused by co2. Scientist B (Skeptics, of which there are many), which, for the purpose of this discussion, I will represent, have already done this (my suggestions just havn’t been published, but as we have already discussed, skeptics can NOT get their work published in most western, recognised scientific journals, they are prevented from promoting their work by the scientists who are scared to have their sh*t research questioned publically and academically).
Quote – What’s remarkable, is that none of confident skeptics here seem able to name Scientist B, and which paper(s) purportedly disprove Scientist A.  And until that happens, we are not having a scientific discussion here, we have having a political one.
 
 - Fang, J.Y., Zhu, J.L., Wang, S.P., Yue, C. and Shen, H.H. 2011. Global warming, human-induced carbon emissions, and their uncertainties. Science China Earth Sciences 54: 1458-1468.
 
- Idso, C.D. and Singer, S.F. 2009. Climate Change Reconsidered; 2009 Report of the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC). The Heartland Institute, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
 
- Singer, S.F. 2008. Nature, Not Human Activity, Rules the Climate: Summary for Policymakers of the Report of the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC). The Heartland Institute, Chicago, Illinois, USA.

http://joannenova.com.au/2009/12/fraudulent-hockey-sticks-and-hidden-data/

http://www.nipccreport.org/

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/214181/20110915/ivar-giaever-global-warming-climate-change-al-gore-ipcc-hoax-dissent-nobel-prize-winner-physicist-re.htm - Giaever is one of the most prominent scientists named in the 2007 Minority Report of the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works (updated in 2009) originally citing support of 400 “dissenting scientists”, and growing to 700.

Honestly, what Scientific papers do you NEED to read which confirms that historically (pre industrialisation), and naturally, regional temperatures have varied wildly? Scientist B only has to prove that Scientist A is wrong, which they do, time and time again.

Just because I am not a climatologist, does not mean my critical analysis of their theories (and yours) are irrelevant or invalid. You obviously fancy yourself as one of them, so please tell me, unequivocally, that the data on which the older temperature measurements (i.e. pre 1900) have been compared against, are both accurate to a 10th of a degree and scientifically reliable, considering the acknowledgement of varied methodologies of investigation.

No matter the number of gates, we will never find our way out to the light when it comes to this climate mess.  When the country goes broke I suppose this will all run its course, and we will see who was right. If the medicine kills the patient is it still medicine?  Can someone layout a linear timeline in conjunction with accompanying processes of discovery that used the scientific method?  This ball is 4 billion years old, and humans have been here 1 million, and we have recorded weather, of sorts, for 22 thousand in ice cores, and observed for 3 thousand, and modern readings for what? 50, and we get to claim we know what the heck is really going on beyond the four seasons?  hubris, maybe?

“Climate change is regardless a fact,” thank you Captain obvious, can I borrow the certificate that certifies your credentials, I ran out of a$$ wipe!?!?  Yeah, it’s “a fact, but the cause is still open to speculation my little al gore quasi-nvironmentalist groupie!!!  Oh, BTW, I talked to someone who worked in the oil industry while I was deployed, and he told me that our oil supply will last a lot longer than those dirt worshipping $h!tbags (if the shoe fits, strut your stuff like the obnoxious proverbial DIVA you are) would like to believe!!!  So how’s my favorite fair weather socialist anyways?

“TMP”   

That’s why Fox news keeps Alan Colmes around; you know, the whole “know your enemy” thing!!!

I want to know where you’re getting your research from because if this were an UFC bout, you’ve beaten “duplicitowse” to the point of being punch drunk!!!  I particularly enjoyed the Lenin / Stalin / hypothermia analogy, BRAVO!!!  Keep the info. coming!!!!  

Saying he changed his mind to improve his position is fine; except the number of times you do that is recorded and it is a bad sign for a presidential candidate to do that.  You can’t change your mind so easily after major legislation is enacted or a war is started.  It is not just a talking point, it is a characteristic describing his actual judgment.  As late as 2008, he described his idea to have an individual mandate and subsidized health care insurance for the poor. What he described sound very similar to Obama-care 2009.  I don’t like how drastically and quickly he changes his views and suspect polling has something to do with it.

Perhaps, but not when you’re talking about “man-made” climate change. Are we so powerful that we can destroy God’s creation? To use Michael Crichton’s words, this is intoxicating vanity. Do we really think we can destroy a planet with our puny little machines? I think not…
And, yes, we do have plenty of oil, we just need to drill for it here in America. The Earth’s resouces are abundant, as God created it. We will always have these things, i.e. trees, oil, other natural resouces, because God provides. God will always provide.

I want to know where you’re getting your research from because if this were an UFC bout, you’ve beaten “duplicitowse” to the point of being punch drunk!!!  I particularly enjoyed the Lenin / Stalin / hypothermia analogy, BRAVO!!!  Keep the info. coming!!!!

I am just a sad, smug, argumentative, loser with too much time on his hands, who is destined to pick on the wrong person one of these days, still its fun while it lasts
Plus we have to keep the ‘(im)morally superior’ members of society on their toes, see if we can find a chink in the armour.
Keep up the good fight!

Dup,

I recognize that we have determined that our planet has experienced
significant warming, above and beyond what we’re experiencing today,
through ice cores which are on roughly 120,000 year cycles. Further, the claim that CO2 levels are
greater today than at any time in the past is based on ice core
evidence.  To my knowledge, the historical CO2 levels, that is estimates
of CO2 levels from the known past warming periods is based entirely on
ice core data. Now I ask how that record can be
complete?  When considering what is happening today with ice melting
from glaciers, does it not follow that the record from glacial ice is flowing into the oceans?  That being the case, how can we know what
the maximum temperatures were or what the CO2 levels were during the past warming
cycles?  Would ice not have melted from glaciers then as well?

Yankster: There are ice core samples that are 800,000 years old http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core   

“I have to say at this point I am staggered that anyone who considers themselves well versed in Science could deem such methodologies as anything but wrong”

Would you consider the National Academy of Science well-versed in Science?  Here is their report to Congress on the temperature reconstructions: http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11676&page=R1

“skeptics can NOT get their work published in most western, recognised scientific journals,”  The reason for this is that these journals are peer-reviewed for their methodology and need to be credible in order to be published!  You really think that a sound paper debunking global warming couldn’t get published and this is the reason one hasn’t been?  

I’ll read the papers you sent, but let me point out these are your sources:

- (most credible): a recent paper from Fang, et al in China (now the largest CO2 emitter), which actually says “Global warming is an objective fact with great uncertainty in the magnitude of the temperature increase”, that it’s caused by both human and natural sources, but that there’s lots of uncertainty in sorting out these effects and short term uncertainties in C02/temperature correlations.  Longer term C02/temperature correlations, Figure 7a. sure seem to support AGW theory.  Their recommendation: eliminate the uncertainties (not consider global warming a scam)

- papers published by the Heartland Institute, a libertarian think tank (not that there’s anything wrong with having one, it’s just not a scientific organization.  Heartland also used to take money to do work for the tobacco industry)

- Joanne Nova, an Australian microbiologist who once was paid by Shell Oil

- Giaever, an 82-year-old Norwegian physicists who thinks Norway can stand to get a good deal warmer, who resigned from a society of Physicists which adopted a statement that anthropogenic global warming is “incontrovertible”.

This is all you’ve got?

“Honestly, what Scientific papers do you NEED to read which confirms that historically (pre industrialisation), and naturally, regional temperatures have varied wildly?”

It’s a *given* that annual and regional temperature data vary widely!  However, the global average temperature *does not*.  In conclusion, here is the graphing of all the temperature reconstructions in the National Academy of Science report to Congress:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11676&page=2#p200108c09960002001

Ah, but the API is an association that represents the business interests of the oil and gas industry.  It is their raison d’etre and everyone knows that.  The problem is that some others involved in the global warming debate aren’t exactly candid in revealing their motivations.  THAT is why the leaked emails are so damning.  And let’s face it, erring on the side of caution is a ridiculous excuse for taking taking draconian measures to remediate an unproven theory.  Our economy is teetering on the brink of REAL disaster and we’re arguing over a pipeline that would provide thousands of jobs and reduce our dependence on middle eastern oil.  Talk about madness. 

my favorite part on the the day after tomorrow is the description on the tv guide channel
         “Global warming causes ice age.” 

…..and so we have come full circle. It is abundantly clear you have not read a single word I have said up to this point, but I will press ahead.
Your National Academy of Science is using the ‘Hockey Stick’ graph as produced by Mann with much support from Jones to PROVE??? that these methods of measuring accurate temperatures to within a 10th of a degree is good science. Have you ever heard of Climategate or Climategate 2 (I will give you a hint, read the thread title )?
The first sentence to support your so called guardian of science reliability and accuracy,

Quote – Because WIDESPREAD, **RELIABLE** instrumental records are available ONLY for the last 150 years or so, scientists **ESTIMATE** climatic conditions in the more distant past by analyzing **PROXY** evidence from sources such as tree rings, corals, ocean and lake sediments, cave deposits, ice cores, boreholes, glaciers, and ***DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE*** (i.e. PAINTINGS?????).
I have highlighted some of the more alarming use of the English language, which portrays how accurate some of these methods are.
Analysing, say dendrochronology as an example. It can suggest, when there were long summers and short summers, when there were groups of such, but it CAN NOT, absolutely NOT, tell you how hot they were, and you can run the data in mm or nanometres through any algorithm you want and it still won’t be accurate to a 10th of a degree. There are too many other variables that affect growth. HEAT (temperature) is not the only factor for growth, CO2 levels, humidity and rainfall, will all contribute. Here is a theory, maybe vegetation has evolved to be more efficient in utilising CO2 for growth, thus more remains in the atmosphere? Its possible??
By the way, did they use the same tree type as comparisons? How many 500-600 year old trees did they find across the Sahara? Not too many, I imagine.
Paintings of glaciers are accurate proof of temp, ok, and of course rain/snow fall and relative humidity have nothing to do with increase or decrease of such, Temperature is the only variable that affects those. Gottya!
Remind me again, how many ice core data samples were taken from the UK, or Spain, Central and N.Africa, the Middle East, S.East Asia, Australia etc? No global relevance to the findings of these then?
Using these methods as an example of accuracy is akin to using a sundial or egg timer to prove that ancient olympians were slower over a given distance to modern athletes and by how much, down to a 10th of a second. Its lunacy.
Why is an academy of Science, who knows where present political money is going to in the science arena, going to say ‘ these findings are inaccurate’. No they will talk them up as being the best thing since sliced bread, and it is left to the personal emails of the scientists behind the results to trip themselves up by admitting to fudging their results to fit the ‘hockey stick’ illusion, use questionable science to furnish their results, and admit that climate models DO NOT WORK, hey ho, that doesn’t seem to matter to people like yourself, who are more confident in the findings than the organisations pushing out the propoganda behind it.  

I will read the rest of the document, because I like to learn what comes out of the horses mouth, it goes to show, they don’t have an effing clue what is going on but pass it off as fact anyway.

Skeptics CAN NOT get their findings published, as I mentioned previously, I know someone who worked for the Dept of Climate Change in Oz, who was told as much by his superiors. Why? Because it is about politics NOT SCIENCE and finding the truth. I have read many other similar stories from around the world. You are talking bollards if you sincerely believe that these decisions are not anything but political.

Thankyou for analysing Fang, and regurgitating what I previously said and what is contrary to what you are saying. Read back what I wrote, I said with greater confidence than the IPCC committed to, if you remember, future temperatures WILL increase and will decrease. I said there are natural fluctuations, whilst you have insisted that the present GLOBAL temp gains are solely down to human emmissions. I said, the methodologies to support the hockey stick theory, which underpins your opinion is massively flawed, as it is, and as such it can not be said with accuracy that CO2 emmissions since the industrial revolution are the primary driver or even a contribuory factor of current rises.

NIPCC, is the polar opposite of the IPCC, and as such their findings are every bit as valid or invalid as the IPCCs. Were you aware that the IPCC is stuffed full of advocates for the WWF and Greenpeace (yeah they’re impartial aren’t they?)

Jo Nova was paid by Shell? Jones (One of the Hockey Stick guys) his recent funding has come from Shell, Esso, and BP amongst others. Your point is?? I see you didn’t anaylse the criticism of the Hockey Stick theory I included.

You are criticising the expertise of Giaever? I am obviously dealing with a legend in the field, my most humble apologies for my criticism for your line of expertise, despite the fact you CAN NOT refute any of my criticisms of the inaccuracies of your proxy temperature findings and their methodologies, who do I think I am?
Listen, the only reason I put anyone down to counter your arguments was because you wouldn’t shut up about having some scientific counter argument, like that is the be-all and end all, no offence but it is pathetic (my scientist is tougher than your scientist….no he isn’t….. he is just significantly better funded and has the political and media propoganda advantage). The reason I never produced these earlier, was because I don’t need to be a scientists puppet boy, I am bright enough to critically analyse the data being produced by the warmists, and thus far, I have had heard no productive counter arguments to my points. I was just proving there is a scientific counter argument and it is out there and every bit as valid or invalid as yours

As I have said previously, when the research methodology is regional, the findings can NOT be applied globally. Even if you tag on several different methodologies from around the world, they are still not representative, because you have to take in to consideration all other weather phenomena besides temperature which affect ice build up and soil temperatures and tree growth etc. and none of them are as accurate as they are portrayed.
In summary, I have risen to every challenge you have laid down, answered them critically and rationally, but I don’t feel there is too much reciprocation. Returning to several of my previous points which you have conveniently dodged, was my analogy using the meterologist an examplary method of reliable and accurate temperature reading? Would his findings have improved if he had measured the circumference growth of tomatos or the height of sunflowers, annually? and finally, can you say unequivocally that temperature measurement pre 1900 or 1850 if you want to be picky, is accurate to within a 10th of a degree? Can you also tell me why there have been periods of no warming as per Phil Jones (over the last 15 years) yet CO2 levels have continued to rise?

climate change. Now that is real happens every  quarter .Man made maybe; not by greenhouse gas.Will the greenhouse people look at any other cause?I think we know the answer to that.That is the same group that found the planet Pluto then found they made a mistake.[are they still looking for that planet outside Pluto I haven't kept up] Eggs an coffee are bad sorry we made a mistake. Just a new way for them to make money no more no less.

I have added your link to my faves bar, thanks it makes good reading.
I imagine you either operate in the climate field or take a keen interest in it, due to your apparent expertise? on the subject. For record, my field of education was medical, so I understand the need for rigorous methodologies in research to produce statistically significant results, and I really have to question the standards that obviously exist in the climate field for such average methodologies to be used as conclusive evidence. So what I thought I would do was give an analogy using a research example from my field of knowledge, shall we say, (certainly not expertise) to show how bad your methodologies are:
I have developed a vaccine (which is worth trillions) based on a theory  that increased atmospheric CO2 concentrations, increase human beings body temperature by upto 4 degreees (critical) by various methods, not least circulatory effects which increase the likelihood of unnecessary fatalities, a causative factor previously missed by medical researchers. My vaccine will provide resistance to CO2 and thus cut its physiological effects therefore decreasing future fatalities (Increased CO2 = increased global temps by various processes, which causes extreme weather which will kill everyone, see the simialrity so far?). To test this theory, which I deem essential for the preservation of millions of people, I need research to prove my theory quickly, so I do not have time to start a new project and use retrospective study to prove my theory (to prove AGW we use retrospective methodologies).
So I cobble together research from all over the world which has analysed Heart Attacks studies in Munich, Strokes in New York, Hypertension from London, Hyperthermia in Dubai etc, urban environments where CO2 atmosphere levels are high and I believe will prove my theory (AGWers use tree ring analysis, ice core, bore holes etc etc etc to prove global warming phenomena is occuring).
Trouble is, these past studies, did not take body temperature readings from the victims, and only include visual characteristics that demonstrate core temp increases in the patients, i.e. Skin Colour, Heart Rate, Blood Prressure, sweating, and urine output (No thermometer growing inside the tree, no digital readout coming out from the soil or the ice cores). For info at this point, I can show through a simple algorithm that changes in the above physiological effects all = increased core body temp.
On reviewing this research, I can conclusively prove that all fatalaties had increased core temperatures caused by increased CO2 in urban environments which is subsequently leading to unnecessary fatalities by virtue of heart attacks, strokes, hypertension and hyperthermia related conditions (CO2 increases global temps, causing various weather phenomenon which will kill everyone).
Would my research pass medical scrutiny and dictate academia?
At this point you are probably saying I am stupid, and I would agree, but I can absolutely assure you, that I can prove each and every stage I have included in my medical research, and it is going to be worth billions of dollars to me, and even if I am not completely right in my theoretical suggestions, the vaccine is still safe and effective regardless.  
How do I know temp was a key factor? Maybe core temp hadn’t altered by a great deal? It is possible that temps had actually decreased in many of these instances, afterall lower blood flow can actually lead to lower body temperatures in rare circumstances. Maybe CO2, although higher in urban environments was not the cause of the original temperature increases and subsequent physiological responses and consequences, maybe it was infection, or exercise or the environments temperature etc etc etc.
I do hope this shows how utterly ridiculous the methodologies are to PROVE?? AGW.

counterintuitive isn’t it?

I apologise for spamming you. 
Returning to my medical analogy, I can support each stage of my theory with accepted and recorded scientific theory (if you need me to).
i) (For example) Since the industrial revolution, heart attacks and strokes have increased in incidence, exponentially and are recognised public health risks.
ii) During the same time period, apparently CO2 atmospheric levels have increased likewise.
iii) Environmental levels of CO2 are higher in urban areas.
iv) Deaths from heart attacks and strokes are more prevelant in urban areas.
v) Increased CO2 intake causes increased physiological responses, such as increased breathing rates, increased heart rate, and increased blood pressure (and by theoretical default) increased body temperature.
vi) Prolonged incidence of increased heart rate and blood pressure (and by theoretical default) body temperature, predispose to heart attacks and strokes etc.
vii) Skin colour change, increased sweating, increased heart rate, increased blood pressure and decreased urine output can all be signitures of heightened body temperature.
viii) MY OWN SPIN ON THE ABOVE, to produce a vaccine that dampens down the bodies natural physiological responses to excessive CO2 stimulation, which will therefore reduce body temperature, and the other potentially harmful physiological characteristics of increased CO2 exposure.

You see, I also have the scientific evidence to support to my theory
All I need to do is publish this theory along with the supporting evidence (above) in a medical journal, get it endorsed by several prespective international pharmaceutical firms, pay off a few leading cardiologists, cardiovascular surgeons, neurologists, obtain public funding, as it is a solution to a leading public health problem, get the Greenies and environmentalists on board (**Key for free propoganda**) and we have a model for a brand new succesful line of medicine/industry. We can make it financially self propogating, thanks to a policy to take regular body temperature readings for the urban population, If they are higher than the normal range, we can administer a safe vaccine to reduce the bodies physiological propensity to respond to CO2. This is an annual booster (increased revenues). *Note if the increased temp was caused by any other factor, this booster will not affect that, so it is safe to administer this as a precautionary measure.
As a second stage business proposal, we can roll this out to non-urban populations as CO2 levels increase there also
Do you see why your production of scientific papers or scientific organisation acknowledgement, means nothing? Just because it is published does not mean it is either good science or correct information. Just because a counter argument is not published does not mean it is worthless and without merit. Your reliance on science to ‘watch your back’ is rather pathetic, and if I can give you a small piece of advice, you need to analyse each paper on its merits rather than the blind faith you have demonstrated upto this point.
**For note** we haven’t even gone down the historical, political and beaurocratic nature of this theory yet. Thats a whole other world to explore. Needless to say, when significant individuals in the UN are saying in the late 1960s that they will use pollution to unite mankind, before any research had been carried out into global warming, it seems coincidental that pollution is the method the UN is utilising to carry out its agenda. Politicised Science in a Nutshell. Thankyou and goodnight.

I will get back to you.  You are throwing back multiple objections about science I didn’t write so I’ll have to read a bit more before replying.  But let me point out that, unlike most of the skeptic papers, the research supporting anthropogenic global warming (AGW) is peer-reviewed.  This means certain things I shouldn’t need to address because they have been by default through publication.  For example, temperatures to a tenth of a degree.  You can’t even publish that in a paper unless your range of uncertainty is small enough based on the data.  This is learned in freshman college science classes and should be a given for research on this level.  So for many of your questions (e.g. tenths of a degree) you should find your answers by reading the research, rather than asking me to read it and tell you why a whole team of scientists allowed it to be published.  And no, I’m not a climate scientist, I’m far from it.  But I have an advantage:  besides some educational background, the actual science is on my side.  That’s not bluster, a review of the actual science will show this to be true.

I’d like to pose this basic question; which is that same

global political question of who or what is the cause of global

warming? Causing climate change? Is it just a natural phenomena

that occurs throughout the course of time on this

thousand mile an hour, spinning rock we call earth or is it

man-made. To Kyoto or not Kyoto, that is the question? Slanderous

accusations from the global community are given because

the United States government currently won’t sign the

Kyoto Treaty.

Well, I’m telling you here and now, both theories regarding

those for or against Kyoto are still wrong. The asinine

way people have pose this question especially prominent

politicians and the major media mules that carry their message

is backwards. The wrong way we think and judge this

matter is the heart of the problem, manifested by our sinful

human nature. Mankind always seeks to judge and solve

problems from the outside in instead of the inside out. That

foolish fallacy trying to correct the wrong by attacking the effect

instead of the cause is the fundamental common day

blunder of every man, woman and child born on the earth. If

Kyoto is ratified today by all nations but the wicked hearts of

mankind goes unchanged, still, “our Armageddon will be at

our door” Gen. Douglas Mc Arthur. The landlord will allow

the face of the earth to be destroyed. Not because of the
type of cars we drive on it but because of the billions of
sins we commit on it. http://weprcomment.blogspot.com/2011/09/global-warming.html

I understand the ice cores are that old.  My question is how does one know that in drilling from the surface to the maximum depth, that one has a continuous climate record preserved in the cores?  How is it that today, surface ice is melting away, presumably taking many hundreds of years of ice record along with it, yet we apparently assume that did not happen in the past?  If you are familiar with geologic terms, how does one know an unconformity does not exist in the ice core record?  And if unconfomities do exist, how can we know with certainty that that the CO2 level has never been higher in the history of the earth than it is today with ice cores as the sole indicator of past CO2 levels?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconformity

“foolish fallacy trying to correct the wrong by attacking the effect instead of the cause”  That’s the rub right there, isn’t it?  If humans are causing global warming (effect), then humans should undo the actions causing the effect.   It’s pretty simple, whether we bring God into it or not.

(replying to your more recent post)  For your questions about the ice cores, if you want to know, read the paper and let us know what you found.  Seriously.  Or you can be like the lawyer who tries to cause doubt rather than seeking actual facts.  A couple of quick points though:  How does one know how old a tree is?  (every year there’s a summer and a winter — a “nonconformity” would be a year without seasons where the earth somehow did not tilt on its axis)   Ice “cores” are by definition not surface ice, so they don’t melt away.

You do understand that for ice core data to be used to determine pre-historic CO2 levels that said ice had to be exposed to the atmosphere at some point in the past?  If it were not, it could not be used as a record to determine CO2 levels at all.  Glaciers are formed due to  the
resultant build up of of snow, compressed yearly by more snow until it becomes ice.  So all ice in a glacier at some point in time was surface ice/snow.  Does it not then follow that during periods
of increased global temperature that surface snow/ice would
be exposed to melting?

I had skim through the paper, but I did not see where it addressed CO2 levels from glacial ice cores.  I entered this thread to discuss CO2 levels as determined from ice cores because I have never seen the issue of ice melt addressed in scientific papers that use ice cores to estimate pre-historic CO2 levels.  The paper you cited primarily deals with temperature changes from 1600 forward.  That is a microcosm of the earths history.  Those postulating that man is causing a runaway global temperature increase rely on data that goes back as far as ice cores for a reason.  They have to acknowledge that temperatures have fluctuated significantly in the past – how else did we come to have the widespread abundance of Carboniferous plant life from which fossil fuels formed?  What was the mechanism that drove pre-historic climate change?  It could be the same mechanism that is driving climate change today.  Except those who want to profit from regulating CO2 emission postulated that CO2 in the atmosphere is driving the current climate change.  That theory is supported entirely by estimating pre-historic CO2 levels based on ice core data.  I am questioning the completeness of that data set.

I hear you and I do apologise for bombarding you. Thankfully, my comment is much more brief and to the point this time

On Tuesday I spent a few hours reading 180 pages of Climategate e-mails. Now, unless you have read those e-mails, not relied on third party analysis (either for or against, as I had done to a certain extent) then you can NOT start to comprehend the disgraceful science ethics at work by your so called scientists, i.e. Mann, i.e. Jones and many other well known IPCC contributors. If this had occured in medical science, I am pretty sure they would be brought to some form of professional justice for their conduct. Why? because the consequences of bad medical practice is worth lives, whilst bad ethical practice in the climate field WILL NOT, no matter how much you fear monger. In addition you have the political and media propoganda machine crushing counter arguments, whilst jumping on the green bandwagon (You should see what is happening in Australia, and what has happened in the UK over the last 10 years), so your argument about what is and what is not peer reviewed or published is untenable.  
Are you a mathmatician then? Its just that you have defended the (in)accuracy of proxy temperature reading processes previously, by virtue of the algorithms that they are subjected to. Well, I am sorry, but as I mentioned earlier, any set of numbers can be crunched to give you whatever figures you want, as long as you do it right. I could easily show comparitive figures demonstrating the increase of various medical conditions in relation to atmospheric co2 levels. I could produce a scale for body temperature measurements by virtue of visual observations rather than specific thermometer readings. I could say these are accurate, no sweat, using algorithms, but the absolute truth is that there is significant doubt over my algorithms findings, due to uncontrolled variables, as is the case with their tree ring analysis or their bore hole analysis, or their paintings/diaries and documentation analysis. The link you gave me from the Science Academy acknowledges these (briefly), you have obviously opted to ignore these, whilst I point out the elephant in the room.
The sole reason that they use this methodology is that they HAVE to, to produce semi useful findings, quickly (they feel they can’t wait 400 years to get 400-500 year accurate temperature readings, though they should for accuracy). So for the greater good of mankind (how noble?) the science field tolerates these proxy findings, and so it takes the child in the crowd to point out that the king is wearing no clothes.
So feel free to wax lyrical about the science supporting your argument, but when the scientists who are producing the results and the reports are admitting (in private) they have no idea what is going on, or that they fudge data, or that they professionally crush any scientist who disagrees with them, including blocking and interfering with the peer review process you refer, you are inadvertantly supporting the worst science I have ever encountered. What more would we expect from a politicised pseudoscience being pushed by the single biggest unelected beaurocracy over the globe?
I did end up rattling on afterall, sorry

Question? With all this scuttlebutt about lowering CO2 emissions did anyone tell Biden, Gore, Obama or any of the rest of the nutjobs the plant life on earth THRIVES on CO2! 
The higher the CO2 the better the trees, grasses, flowers, veggies, fruits, berries, etc, etc, thrive and the more OXYGEN they make.

Exhale everyone, Exhale and save our GREEN planet.

Sorry sir… you demand your opponent prove a negative… instead you must present the model which DOES accurately predict future climate conditions and you can’t do that because it doesn’t exist.

You present a “theory,” then demand that anyone who disagrees with your premise present an alternate theory, but that’s not what makes good science. Good science need only poke holes in YOUR theory, not come up with an alternate theory. YOUR theory, by the way, now looks like Swiss Cheese.

Science, by the way, is the “pursuit of knowledge” and not the attainment of information which promotes your point of view. The moment you find yourself “convinced” you have departed the scientific realm and entered the political realm…

Science is never settled, and that’s perfectly clear. I direct your attention to “Einstein’s Theory of Relativity” …

The short answer is “yes.”  Everyone who’s had 8th grade science knows this, including all the climate scientists.  Unfortunately the full picture is more complex: http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-plant-food.htm

Here’s more information on ice core research http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11676&page=65

If your fear is that scientists have improperly ignored the possibility that years could be erased from the ice core record via sudden melting — despite having gone the peer review process — then consider the other temperature reconstruction methods that don’t rely on ice cores!  http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11676&page=17#p200108c09960017001

Relativity’s not a bad example, actually.  The theory has broad implications for society, and has had applications for everything from powering your GPS to making nuclear bombs.  Parts of it don’t explain certain actual phenomena, yet at its core it is a true and useful theory.

GRusling, JohnK made the claim that *every* anthropogenic global warming (AGW) model was fudged, I asked him to show *one* that is fudged, and he has not.  There’s a mountain of scientific studies; he, presumably a non-scientist says they are all fudged, so yes he bears some burden of proof!

The burden of proof for poking sufficient holes in AGW has not been met in the scientific arena — where AGW theory remains the near-consesnsus view — or in this discussion thread.  Here people have advanced “proofs” ranging from “it’s just a cycle” to “plants love CO2″ to “the-model-can’t-tell-me-accurately-what-the-Thursday-morning-temperature-will-be-in-2063-therefore-its-worthless-even-though-I-might-be-underwater-by-then.”  

Show me the holes that have been poked.  These are pin-pricks on the skin of an elephant.  

There’s theory and then there are some (inconvenient) facts.  Observationally, our climate is rapidly changing.  Volcanoes, solar activity etc are all unable to explain it yet the CO2 greenhouse effect is.  There is also burden of proof for AGW skeptics to show an alternative cause for the warming that has already occurred. 

Consider this: http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-positives-negatives.htm

I thought “global warming” was all the cows’ fault. all that methane they spew out their rear ends…..

I believe I’ve read every word you’ve said.  Congratulations on being the only person in a 100-post thread here on GBTV willing to discuss any specific scientific studies about Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW).  This tells me you must be at very least a somewhat conscientious person.  I don’t doubt that we could joy a beer and find common ground on many topics, perhaps even this one.  I can’t respond to every question you scatter concerning an entire field of science; I’ll try to respond to some of the more important ones.  

The hockey stick graph of temperature appears in nearly every credible climate paper, regardless of source.  So even if you had grounds to throw out hockey sticks supported by data from Mann & Jones (I don’t you think you do have grounds), there are still many other hockey sticks corroborating them. 

Here’s more information on tree ring reconstruction methods:
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11676&page=48#p200108c09970048001

I’m not criticizing Giaever’s credibility as a physicist, the field of science he was successful in, but his rationale and conclusions regarding Climatology, a field of science he did not work in.  

I’m sorry that I do not recall your meteorologist analogy. 

“Can you also tell me why there have been periods of no warming (over the last 15 years)”  Yes, it’s a fallacy that the earth has stopped warming.  Here’s a paper from another Jones — David Jones from Australia that should make interesting reading:  http://www.aussmc.org/documents/waiting-for-global-cooling.pdf

Summary: data variability makes successive record year-over-year temperatures unlikely, even during an ongoing warming trend.  Subsequent to Jones’ paper, I believe that 2010 was the warmest year on record, and here’s what the data curve looks like:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/2011-Global-Climate-Status_WMO.html

This data gets cherry-picked by global warming denial-ists to say the planet stopped warming in 1998.  It doesn’t take much education to look at the full data set and see what the trend is.

“Do you see why your production of scientific papers or scientific organisation acknowledgement, means nothing?”  No I’m sorry, I do not see that at all.  Thanks for trying to assemble a complex analogy, I find it easier to directly discuss the topic of climate change.  

By the way, are there any other entire fields of science currently held hostage by global political conspiracies right now, or is it just climatology?  And if only climatology, then how convenient it is for you, rhetorically, to not have to address the entire field of science that is pertinent to the topic at hand!

I’ve read Climategate emails and don’t like them — shows too much jockeying among scientists and cynical “politics” among them.  However, I didn’t find any evidence of falsified data, I haven’t seen any evidence that their scientific findings can be thrown out as a result.  And even if their findings were ignored there’s plenty of support from other scientists (I was stunned when I sifted through the alphabetical references in the National Academy of Science report — this work represents a ton of science).  Their emails *still* strike me as more objective about climate change than what I read right here on GBTV, which albeit is just a political website at the end of the day.

Let me call you on a couple of unfounded statements.  ”Any set of numbers can be crunched to give you whatever figures you want, as long as you do it right.”  Sure, you can correlate body temperature to CO2, but since correlation is not causation, you need additional science (like the greenhouse effect) to show cause.  You also state emphatically that regional measurements cannot be compiled to make global conclusions.  I assume you are aware you are overstating the case since there are tons of methodologies (political science, social science, earth science etc.) that use sampling data to make aggregate conclusions.  There is a scientific method to sampling!  So it sounds like you’re attacking the whole idea of sampling when really you’re just saying that the methods in these studies are not rigorous enough — presumably without you having read the studies or examined the actual method.  In short, you disagree with the conclusions.  

If I remember correctly, in my very first post to you, I made mention to the fact that there are too many facets of this topic to argue/discuss, on this forum? I think these words are finding a basis. 
Initially, please don’t be mistaken by the fact that when I said the earth had had ‘PERIODS of NO WARMING over the last 15 years’, I wasn’t merely regurgitating ‘cherry picked, global warming denial-ists’ data, as you suggest. I was indeed regurgitating opinion as offered by Phil Jones et al. I appreciate the paper you include from Jones (Oz), which at first glance looks pretty kosher, but I am sure I will find fault eventually
However, I would suggest there is a significant concensus that my assertions maybe correct. Now, I loathe to go down the whole, ‘my scientist is tougher than your scientist’, approach, but there are so many conflicting reports to Oz Jones, from acknowledged Warmists –
Dr Vicky Pope, Head of Climate Change Advice (2010, in relation to global temperature readings for the past decade) – Said that pollution (Asian aerosols) could be cooling the earth?
Which begs the question, maybe we should throw more pollution up there to cool the earth back down, but I digress.
Then we have the published paper by Kaufmann et al (2011) which confirm that global temperatures remained steady between 1998 and 2008, and once again blamed it on Chinese emmisions.
Mojib Latif (A warmist) claims that the temperature curve has reached a plateau and suggests a couple of decades of cooling.
Jochem Marotzke is another who is confused by the sudden remission. Finally we have the Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction, who confirm the above between 1999-2008 (and have since been accused by the Russians of tampering with data relating to Russia temperatures since 1900, oh dear).
Now, I am not hypocritical enough to say, ‘there you go, Oz Jones is wrong’, because what it tells me, more importantly, is 2 things A) that anyone can make any set of data, say whatever it is they want and B) They don’t really have a damn clue as to what is going on, either in the short term (with accurate measuring equipment) or in the long term (with proxy findings). If they can’t agree what has happened over the last 10-15 years, can they really say for sure where we are heading?
Which brings me nicely, to my second point, that you raise on one of your most recent answers to me about my medical analogy of correlation and your insistance it was not an example of causation (it was, the scientific evidence for the things I wrote exists, i.e. a human inhales increased CO2, they WILL experience physiological changes, including body temp, but that is besides the point right now).
IF atmospheric CO2 = increased global temperatures, i.e. the cause and effect you allude, but which CAN NOT be proven, strongly believed by some? Yes. Conclusively proven? No. How can we then suggest, when the data doesn’t fit our (sorry your) models predictions, that CO2 increases actually cause lower temperatures, even for a short period of time? Its a simple point, either CO2 increases temperatures or it doesn’t. It can’t be both. Its like saying that adding too much fuel, heat or oxygen, to a fire will eventually cool it down. No it won’t, it’ll exacerbate the situation, afterall that is why we are all being taxed to death to reduce our CO2 output, to slow global warming. It would appear if Pope and Kaufmann are to be believed that we are doing the exact opposite of what we need to. Maybe that is it, maybe they know this and reducing CO2 will actually increase global temps thus proving/supporting their theory, afterall it was Jones who said, he hopes the world heats up just to prove his theory right. How honorable??? (Climategate emails), but you know that don’t you seen as you have read all of the them??? What do you think to Jones fixing Manns nomination for professional recognition?
If you had, and you had ignored the things they were discussing, then I may as well quit now, because those e-mails discuss in detail about the sham they have made of the peer review process for example that you harp on about, or their professional alienation, victimisation, pressure (or similar words) for editors and journals who dared to run articles disagreeing with the mantra. Amongst other topics.
Your comments on sampling are confusing. How can ice core sampling from the Arctic, be relevant to temperatures in Equitorial Guinea for example? What about tree growth in Siberia during the 1700s, does that have relevance to Tree Growth in Alice Springs during the same period? Its as I questioned you about the example of the meterologist who used half a dozen different methods to record temperature in a given area, are his findings reliable? Of course they are not. If you have a quantifiable subject like temperature, it really isn’t that hard to plot a methodology that will record such over a given period of time, semi accurately, i.e. you use the same recording apparatus and procedure over the length of the investigation to give you an average (after submitting the data to a simple equation) which is relevant to the situation you have just tested, i.e. indoors, outdoors, at a specific altitude, with specific equipment and methodology etc etc etc. Once you start mixing and matching you lose significance and accuracy to apply findings to a larger area or greater population, BASICS.
Which brings me on to my final point for now, and to reiterate my main problem to date. If you can not say with certainty what the global temperature was historically, how can you say conclusively it has gone up since? Could I say that my homes internal temp had increased over the past 12 months, if I had only started recording/measuring the temp over the past week, but I used my diary, my memory, how much my plants had grown, how much my electric bills were due to AC usage etc etc etc for dates previous to this? Not with absolute accuracy, I couldn’t, but you’re suggesting I could.
I could go on and on and on (as you know) I will leave it at that for now. Cheers.

You’re thinking of Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back. It was a tauntaun, not a pony.

Hello,this was a good way to wake up.
I’ll have to dig out the series,I don’t remember this scene.
But the situation I discribed,did happen. That part of the family moved back to Iowa shortly after this tragedy.
Their writings were pretty interesting.

I believe that you understand my concern.  The paper you’ve referenced is a great piece summarizing the research going on for studying climatic change over the past 2000yrs.  Certainly, we can cross reference many source materials to help fine tune the accuracy of the models these sources are producing. However, I am unaware of any that cover periods of time beyond the most recent 1000s of years.  Ice cores stand as the primary evidence for temperature fluctuation on the 120,000 year cycles.  And the data gathered from the ice cores is reliant upon cross referencing recent ice core data with other “modern” data sources and extrapolating those references into the past.  Aside from the possibility that ice core data has melted in the past warm periods, leaving gaps in the record, this also assumes a steady state environment, which is not necessarily the case.

I’ve always been aware of climate change. I call it WEATHER. I just look out the window each day so I know how to address the climate change of the day. They keep telling us that the ocean level is rising, and polar bears will fall from the sky, but fail to say that we would all be starving if we slipped back into an ice age. Weather tends to go in cycles, just like fashion trends seem to come around again every 20 years or so. The climate change agenda is another way to tax us, control what we do, and how we live. To sign a treaty entering into a global climate change will rule over our constitution, and give a foreign unelected body the right to govern us. Some in the world have been working for their New World Order, oops, I mean Global Government, for many years. This is a brillant way to achieve it, since water and air transcends every border in the world!

Is he suppose to site the same science that states we all came from a single cell organism? Wow, that single cell certainly developed a lot of diversity when it decided to crawl up out of the mud and create life. I suppose it was better to go with the single cell that created life instead of ape evolving into man, because the ape stopped developing into man! If the government had their way, they would stop all births from happening because it will affect our weather by the resources they would use. Stop worshipping the creation, and try worshipping the Creator. Nature is not MORE important than humans.

We are truly in trouble then, since carbon is the basis for all life. How odd that China will rule this century, along with India, since they have large populations. India has more problems created by Monsanto causing genetic pollution to seeds, than they have problems with weather! Why don’t we discuss all pollution if that is what one bases their opinion on?

How quaint it is to be able to say the climate “has changed before.”  While that’s true, it doesn’t mean that humans can’t cause climate change that will make earth difficult for humans to live on:  http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm  There are plenty of ways to reduce human impact on climate without the global government conspiracy you seem to fear.  

I’m not sure what your point is about carbon.  A little high school chemistry will tell us that carbon and carbon dioxide after different substances with different properties: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

Well, if only cow farts were the problem as you suggest…  While it’s true that methane is a greenhouse gas, this chart shows that CO2 not methane is causing the larger greenhouse affect in our atmosphere: http://cdiac.ornl.gov/pns/current_ghg.html

If you’d like more information on the facts of genetic mutation and natural selection, you can read more here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution#Heredity  If you want to make humans more special in your mind, you can come up with a worldview where humans were God-created, and exist side-by-side with creatures that clearly are evolving.  But how presumptuous of you to assume I don’t worship the Creator because I dare believe science.  Stop ignoring the science that reveals how God’s universe works, and you’ll get information to help be a better steward of the earth.

Lexington, I must point something out to you.  5 miles wide by 5 mi long by 5 mi tall is 125 cubic miles, not 5 cubic miles.  I’m not trying to insult you or anything, I just wanted to point that out to you.

Such a hoax

GB is a hypocrite for posting a video about a drunk when he has admitted to being in AA.  Amd he wants to divide the country in half with a wall!  But I have actually tried to connect on common ground but people name call and like the division.  I have said from the beginning that this country will fail if we don’t work together and when you boil away all of the BS…most people wan the same thing.  Most people on here make up things and call me names for no reason.  I am not part of OWS but I do support the middle class ( now lower class) who have been robbed from corruption.  The problem is most people fail to see both sides are equally corrupt and only blame Obama and the middle class (OWS) which is wrong.  Yes there are a few bad apples but they would be that way no matter what.  They did not create this problem.  The rich elites ho who want more money and power did and it is both the Right and the Left.  If people fail to recognize this and think that the same corruption on the Right with the next election will change anything is highly mistaken!

Ya the 100 million barrels of oil burned everyday into the atmosphere have no impact.  WOW

Folks, this is skidmarks new goal in life, to post his hatred for Glenn Beck on all of his threads.

He’s a pathetic hateful boob. Please read his hatred so he can be fulfilled in life.

LMAO

“TMP”

that might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  Ya the 100 million barrels of oil burned everyday into the atmosphere has no negative impact.  WOW

you prove my point all so well..I love it.  Keep up the paid work GBTV paid spammer.  And he pays you for this?  SAD

GB is a hypocrite for posting a video about a drunk when he has admitted to being in AA.  Amd he wants to divide the country in half with a wall!  But I have actually tried to connect on common ground but people name call and like the division.  I have said from the beginning that this country will fail if we don’t work together and when you boil away all of the BS…most people wan the same thing.  Most people on here make up things and call me names for no reason.  I am not part of OWS but I do support the middle class ( now lower class) who have been robbed from corruption.  The problem is most people fail to see both sides are equally corrupt and only blame Obama and the middle class (OWS) which is wrong.  Yes there are a few bad apples but they would be that way no matter what.  They did not create this problem.  The rich elites ho who want more money and power did and it is both the Right and the Left.  If people fail to recognize this and think that the same corruption on the Right with the next election will change anything is highly mistaken!

No it doesn’t skidmark. One volcano puts years of hydrocarbons into the atmosphere. Trees put more co/2 in the air than all the oiled burned by mankind.

You’re an idiot skidmark.

“TMP”

That makes you a troll and a spiteful hate filled spammer.

I see that you started your spamming attacks when you got to work and are continuing them when you should be working. Get your A$$ back to work and stop wasting the tax payers money.

What you are witnessing is strtlk throwing a hissy fit because he was booted from Glenn Becks site. He’s spamming the site with his hatred for Glenn Beck.

This is what an uneducated liberal does while he should be working cleaning offices in Government buildings.

“TMP”

I’ll post this truth on every GBTV for life because of you paid spammer.  Thank you

You post hate filled garbage, hatemonger. Thanks for playing little boy. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

“TMP”

more name calling from GBTV followers.  It doesn’t mean that the 100 million barrels burned everyday is good for the planet you hater and name caller!  Climatoligists, not oil geologists have come to a consensus that it is having harmful affects name name caller and typical GBTV hate spreader.

Prove it!

“TMP”

Trees release O2 and suck up Co2…basic elementary science.  AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

you always tell me to prove it..you prove it.  Go to IPCC’s site and reeducate yourself old man.  You are out of touch with reality!

Sorry, trees give off all that co/2 through aspiration at night and when they decay.

Science little boy.

“TMP”

That’s not proof strtlk.

Try again.

“TMP”

Trees are mostly cellulose, or (C6H10O5), That’s 5 carbon atoms, 10 hydrogen atoms, and 5 oxygen atoms. Since the hydrogen comes from water, and the oxygen comes from water or air, and the carbon comes from CO2 in the air, in order for a tree to increase mass (grow) it HAS TO take in more carbon than it releases. It has to take in more CO2 than it releases. As for CO2 to oxygen, since the oxygen comes either from water or CO2, the tree will have to release either hydrogen or oxygen. Since the H and O components of cellulose are made from water, and the carbon from CO2, it releases oxygen. To say “[trees] are nearly as likely to give off CO2 than O2,” contradicts the law of the conservation of matter.

It takes in more Co2….AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

more name calling from GBTV followers

trees take in more CO2…but its so obvious that you have the blinders on because you only care about money

Now you’re a plagiarizer. Trees give off all that CO/2 during the decaying process. Trees also give off CO/2 at night.

Science little boy.

“TMP”

Actually trees give off O2 and consume C02

never any proof from you..I am not your educator.  A consensus among climatoligists isn’t proof.  You are high or really, really out of touch with reality.  Time for your meds.  Ya the 100 million barrels has no impact..Can u say CRAZY or brainwashed

Trees give back all that co/2 during the decaying process.

This is the part that you left out of your plagiarized post:

“Deciduous trees give off O2 (Oxygen) while in the process of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis can only occur during daylight periods,when the tree is not dormant. During the trees dormancy and at night, trees breath in O2 and breath out CO2 (Carbon Dioxide).

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_trees_give_off_Carbon_Dioxide#ixzz1g0fvZfgH

“TMP”

thanks for making me look right all of the time little child.  Time to change your diaper.

Hatemonger.

What you are witnessing is strtlk throwing a hissy fit because he was booted from Glenn Becks site. He’s spamming the site with his hatred for Glenn Beck.

This is what an uneducated liberal does while he should be working cleaning offices in Government buildings.

“TMP”

“TMP”

It has been proven that those people that you are talking about have lied and omitted information from their studies to come up with a preconceived result. You are the one who need the education little boy.

Hatemonger.

it has NO impact…unequivical statements like that make you look foolish

I guess mtclaytgirl never learns.

it has no impact and trees release more co2 than o2…AHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  A consensus among scientists isn’t proof! AHAHHAHHAHAHAHA

You’re never right. I posted the part of your plagerized post that you edited out. You’re a dishonest hatemonger.

LMAO

“TMP”

thank you Todd for that intelligent statement!

Your consensus is from liars and people with an agenda.
That’s a proven fact in their own words and emails.

Stay stupid strtlk.

“TMP”

its no different than posting a link…don’t cry because you know you won’t see the truth because you only care about money!

It has a proven impact, thanks for admitting my post was correct.

LMFAO

“TMP”

more name calling from GBTV followers…trees give off more CO2 than O2…..AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHA.  YOu are going to have a heart attack with all of the hate you are filled with old man.

yes the 100 millions barrels of oil burned everyday has an impact.  Thank you for finally admit that.

prove it…you can’t

You plagerized your post by not giving credit to its source. You claimed to have a college degree, well that’s first year stuff for freshmen. You’re an ignorant boob who is now a proven plagerizer and a liar about your fictitious education.

LMFAO

“TMP”

i edited nothing more lies…AHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

I am not publishing it or taking credit for it Dumb Ass…reeducate yourself fool

you resort to this when you know you are wrong..AHAHAHHAHAHAHA

You edited the comment that you posted as proof of your statement and left out critical information, also you failed to give credit to your source. You’re a dishonest boob. A liar and a hatemonger.

“TMP”

You took credit for your post when you failed to give credit to the source of your post. You’re a liar and a dishonest idiot and now i know that you never went to college so you lied about that also. You’re a typical liar as I’ve always known you were strtlk.

I called you on it right away and now you’re backpedaling to try and weasel your way out of your lie.
Hatemonger.

“TMP”

I know I’m right, hatemonger. You go and lie your way out of your dishonest post.

“TMP”

Hatemonger and now, proven liar on top of everything else.

“TMP”

You did, you fool. I caught it. You’re an uneducated idiot, that was a sophomoric blunder, first year college stuff.

“TMP”

more lies from GBTV followers.  Making things up by calling me a Liberal.  For the 10th time I am a registered Republican.  You always make my points for me.  I LOVE IT.  Great work paid spammer and hate spreader.

You’re a registered moron and an uneducated boob. How many converts did you make today during your tantrum hissy fit? Hatemonger.

“TMP”

you make my point for me..thank you for showing the hate spread by GBTV people.

Its not plagarism if its in a blog idiot..AHAHAHAHAHA. Go back to counting your money hater of truth.

more name calling from GBTV peeps as a last resort when they can’t prove a single argument and have lost.  Truth will always prevail.  

and for the 12th time…I told you I am off today.  More lies to make your weak argument fit.  An all to familiar pattern from GBTV followers.  Wonder where they get it????

There will always be oil but it gets more costly to extract as it gets harder to extract.  Returns in TX when fields where first tapped there in the 30′ was 100:1.  The dirty bichimen oil in Alberta has a return of 2:1 and is the 2nd fastest rate or deforestation next to the Amazon.  Why are they so desperate  for this dirty, dirty oil?  And the cancer rates never seen before by the local native tribes because of polluted ground water. Basic economics-energy return on energy invested.  Eventually it gets to costly to extract oil and people claim science will solve everything but we are finding that is BS.  Plus many other negative impacts to the environment.

There will always be oil but it gets more costly to extract as it gets harder to extract.  Returns in TX when fields where first tapped there in the 30′ was 100:1.  The dirty bichimen oil in Alberta has a return of 2:1 and is the 2nd fastest rate or deforestation next to the Amazon.  Why are they so desperate  for this dirty, dirty oil?  And the cancer rates never seen before by the local native tribes because of polluted ground water. Basic economics-energy return on energy invested.  Eventually it gets to costly to extract oil and people claim science will solve everything but we are finding that is BS.  Plus many other negative impacts to the environment.  Not to mention the CO2 output from one of the largest industrial projects ever seen on Earth and the removal of Billions of tons of Earth.

I have never, ever once been booted from here.  More lies and name calling from a GBTV follower.

Oh REALLY….I got news for you skewermark…there is more pollution coming out of the mouths of Gore and Obama and the other climate bubbleheads than oil ever produced. If you believe global warming is man-made I have beach front property, a bridge, and a tower I want to sell you. This is about MONEY…and the way to get more of it by passing Cap and Trade. Better get off the slopes, put your sticks away and study on it. Like duplicitowse said, “Everyone who’s had 8th grade science know this, including all the climate scientists.”  Better quit drinking the liberal kool-aide or you will taxed into oblivion.

more name calling from GBTV peeps.  All I said is that the 100 million barrels burned everyday does have a negative impact.  To think otherwise is having the blinders on.  The problem is unburned hydrocarbons that cause problems such as smog in cities.  Stick your mouth over an exhaust pipe for a while and see what happens!

Not a liberal but keep name calling and dividing this country.  Typical GBTV hater.

College level Environmental Chem and I got an A from a professor who is Conservative.

Anyone who has had college level Env Chem knows that the problem is unburned hydrocarbons.  Suck on an exhaust pipe for a while and see what happens!

The skeptical science comes from oil geologists.

Unfortunately it isn’t cow farts…more like brain farts. Examples: Al Gore and Obama.

No, the problem is the tax breaks for the rich and it is a proven failure over the last few decades! 

If you think that the 100 million barrels of oil burned everyday into the atmosphere has no negative impact, suck on an exhaust pipe for a while and tell me what happens.  The problem is unburned hydrocarbons.  Just saying that if you believe that this much oil burned everyday has no negative impact, you must really have the blinders on.

The problem is rich people like you who only care about money.  If I got tax breaks I could employ people too along with many other people of the now lower class people.  You claim that we still have it better than the rest of the world.  So when is it ok to stop giving the rich all of the benefts?  When we have the same standard of living as the rest of the world?  Keep destroying the middle class, which makes this country run. Greedy fool.

The middle class makes this country run and soon the now lower class majority will have the same standard of living as 3rd world nations if this continues.  The majority of the US isn’t buying it.

The world isn’t buying these lies from rich people anymore, which you told me you were rich.

you hate fairness hater!

Plagerizer. Hatemonger, Liar.

“TMP”

Hatemonger, spammer

“TMP”

Hatemonger.

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It most certainly is you uneducated boob.

“TMP”

Liar.

“TMP”

Hatemonger, spammer.

“TMP”

hatemonger.

Ya, I’m filthy rich and hide all my money in the Kakos Islands like Hillary Clinton does. I’m flying down a suitcase full of money this weekend. I buy slaves down there and illegally smuggle them into the United States to work on my sugar plantations. So you admit to hating me.

OOOOHHHH I’m hated by a childish spammer and hatemonger. What an idiot.

“TMP”

Ya, I’m filthy rich and hide all my money in the Kakos Islands like Hillary Clinton does. I’m flying down a suitcase full of money this weekend. I buy slaves down there and illegally smuggle them into the United States to work on my sugar plantations. So you admit to hating me.

OOOOHHHH I’m hated by a childish spammer and hatemonger. What an idiot.

“TMP”

Look at the paranoid hate filled spammer, he’s on a new kick. What kind of car do you drive and how do you heat your house. Do you know how much oil it takes to make your computer or do you even know that it’s made out of oil? You’re an idiot and an uneducated boob.

“TMP”

You couldn’t employ anyone, you’re too stupid. You should be out building a business instead of spreading hate and spamming web sites.

“TMP”

But you’re not educated as is evident in your plagiarisms here.

You’re a liar and a hate filled spammer.

“TMP”

But you’re not educated as is evident in your plagiarisms here.

You’re a liar and a hate filled spammer.

“TMP”

Hatemonger.

“TMP”

But you’re not educated as is evident in your plagiarisms here.

You’re a liar and a hate filled spammer. Hatemonger.

“TMP”

But you’re not educated as is evident in your plagiarisms here.

You’re a liar and a hate filled spammer.

“TMP”

But you’re not educated as is evident in your plagiarisms here.

You’re a liar and a hate filled spammer.

“TMP”

Hatemonger. How much hatred have you spewed today little boy?

“TMP”

Hatemonger. How much hatred have you spewed today little boy?

“TMP”

A first year student would understand that using another persons work without giving credit to the author or source is plagiarizing that person work.

You’re an uneducated boob. Hatemonger.

“TMP”

A first year student would understand that using another persons work without giving credit to the author or source is plagiarizing that person work.

You’re an uneducated boob. Hatemonger.

“TMP”

Why do you hate people so much skiermark? Are you a little child or just a lonely person that you come here? Do you need a friend?

It is plagiarism. I learned that in my first English class in college.

I learned the same thing years ago armand. Skidmark is just a lonely ignorant spammer of hate.

“TMP”

you give GBTV followers a bad name…..AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

still no intelligence or rebuttle from ST..just more name calling from GBTV followers

no evidence, just name calling because you know you are wrong.  You make me look right….AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

not what I said but make me look right again with no intelligent comments…more hate filled comments and name calling.  I LOVE IT!

no proof of my oil comment being plagarism…because it isn’t you liar.AHAHHAHAHA

don’t make yourself look really dumb too armand…at least post something intelligent unlike ” So There”.  Can’t prove me wrong because you know you are wrong so you resort to name calling.  You are a joke…AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.  YOu brainwashed trolls have made my point and my day.

you copy and pasting skills are good old man..how many times have you copied that to my intelligent arguments.  200 in two days.   You are a joke and make GBTV and its followers look bad….AHAHAHAH.  Keep up the good work!

Never said I hated you…You might be the dumbest person I ever met in my entire life

Electricity comes from burned coal idiot, not oil.  More non-intelligence from “So There”…AHAHAHAHAHAH

unfortunately people like you are destroying this country by being paid to cover the truth with lies.  The truth will prevail and judgement day is coming real soon.

I know you have slaves you hate-filled neocon who likes wars and when innocent people are killed.  When the dollar crashes, rich losers like you will be the first to starve to death.  Can’t eat money.  I bet your dumb ass would try.AHHAHAHAHAHAHA

get a life old man and quite following me and harassing me with non-intelligence.  Leave the real stuff up to the big boys.  Reeducate yourself dumb ass.AHAHAHAHAHA

keep making me look good and encouraging me even more ST, brainwashed troll and paid spammer by GBTV to incessantly cover truth posts with lies

people like you make it so that no solutions can ever be reached because you don’t want solutions because you won’t benefit.  You admitted to having slaves.  You are sick and demented.  You make yourself look extremely bad.  SPAMMER AND PAID LIAR

GB is a hypocrite for posting a video about a drunk when he has admitted to being in AA.  Amd he wants to divide the country in half with a wall!  But I have actually tried to connect on common ground but people name call and like the division.  I have said from the beginning that this country will fail if we don’t work together and when you boil away all of the BS…most people wan the same thing.  Most people on here make up things and call me names for no reason.  I am not part of OWS but I do support the middle class ( now lower class) who have been robbed from corruption.  The problem is most people fail to see both sides are equally corrupt and only blame Obama and the middle class (OWS) which is wrong.  Yes there are a few bad apples but they would be that way no matter what.  They did not create this problem.  The rich elites ho who want more money and power did and it is both the Right and the Left.  If people fail to recognize this and think that the same corruption on the Right with the next election will change anything is highly mistaken!

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Hatemonger.

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hate filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hat filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hate filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hate filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hate filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

You posts a moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hate filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

Your posts are moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hate filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

Ignorant people like you come here and spam the site, make accusations and spread your hatred and lies and you’re so stupid that you don’t see that you are dividing the Nation instead of bringing it together.

Your posts are moronic and hateful.

You also seem to think that libeling the owner of the site is helping bring people together.

You’re an ignorant boob and a childish moron. You also attacked me and called me names from your first post before I even decided to stop your idiotic spamming attempts on this site.

You’re a hate filled little boy on a temper tantrum and everyone now sees what you are all about.

I will continue to let people know and see what you are all about. My intention isn’t to post over your foolish rants but to draw attention to your posts so people can see what you really are, a little boy spamming a grownups site.
Enjoy what you are receiving, it must be dark inside your closed uneducated mind.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

“A fossil-fuel power station is a power station that burns fossil fuels such as coal, natural gas or petroleum (oil) to produce electricity.” wiki

Stay stupid little boy, you’re good at it. 1% of our electricity comes from Oil powered plants.

You’re an uneducated boob.

“TMP”

Yea, I have hundreds of slaves all over the plantation you boob. All of us filthy rich Corporate plantation owners have thousands of slaves at our beck and call.

Bend over, grab your ears and pull that hate filled head out of your A…..!

LMFAO

“TMP”

More name calling and making lies from GBTV followers.  I have tried to work with GBTV people but you have no arguments or points to make. YOu are a hater and lie because you can’t prove or disprove anything.  You only come back with hate as counter arguments with no truth.  Go do something meaningful with your life like volunteer for a charity.  I am seriously worried about your health with how much hate and aggression you have.  Find a healthy way to channel it.  Stop trying to divide and ruin this country.

WOW you are like a child and you are in your 50′s.  You need a better job than being a paid spammer to cover the truth.

realy skidmark went down this road. he might as well join OWS he has the same arguements as they do. oh send some slaves this way would you pal.

There will always be oil but it gets more costly to extract as it gets harder to extract.  Returns in TX when fields where first tapped there in the 30′ was 100:1.  The dirty bichimen oil in Alberta has a return of 2:1 and is the 2nd fastest rate or deforestation next to the Amazon.  Why are they so desperate  for this dirty, dirty oil?  And the cancer rates never seen before by the local native tribes because of polluted ground water. Basic economics-energy return on energy invested.  Eventually it gets to costly to extract oil and people claim science will solve everything but we are finding that is BS.  Plus many other negative impacts to the environment.  Not to mention the CO2 output from one of the largest industrial projects ever seen on Earth and the removal of Billions of tons of Earth.Edit
Reply

If you think that the 100 million barrels of oil burned everyday into the atmosphere has no negative impact, suck on an exhaust pipe for a while and tell me what happens.  The problem is unburned hydrocarbons.  Just saying that if you believe that this much oil burned everyday has no negative impact, you must really have the blinders on.

When will you stop your games little child?  All you do is name call as a counter argument.  You make GBTV followers look really bad.

More hata…an all too familiar pattern with you and GBTV followers.  Name calling is ruining this country.

No good arguments from RYAN FREDERICK either.  More name calling and hate from GBTV followers. Wonder where they get it????????

“SO There” proves my point by all the lies and hate spread by GBTV followers.  Just look at his last 20 posts.  No arguments and just name calling as his arguments.

You are dumb ST…..AHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Oil only provides 8% of electricity in this country and is declining.AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

More name calling and hate from GBTV followers.  I have trained people at my jobs and I am a manager at my current job.  I saw that hate coming from you a mile  away hater.  Keep dividing this country hater so you can profit.

Copy and paste it to see if it is plagarism.  It isn’t liar.  Proving my point again.AHAHAHAHAHAHA.  Don’t have a heart attack or other health issues with this hate for truth that you hold inside so strongly.

More name calling with no good arguments.

Ya they are called Americans and slave wages these days because people like you are greedier than ever.  You are ruining this country HATER!

More hate…an all too familiar pattern with you and GBTV followers.  Name calling is ruining this country.  Wonder where they get it????????

More hate…an all too familiar pattern with you and GBTV followers.  Name calling is ruining this country.  Wonder where they get it????????

More hate…an all too familiar pattern with you and GBTV followers.  Name calling is ruining this country.  Wonder where they get it????????

More hate…an all too familiar pattern with you and GBTV followers.  Name calling is ruining this country.  Wonder where they get it????????

More hate…an all too familiar pattern with you and GBTV followers.  Name calling is ruining this country.  Wonder where they get it????????

Thanks for helping spread the truth about hate and how it is dividing and ruining this country ST!

More lies…All people have to do is look at the last 20 posts to see you are a lying hypocrite who spreads hate.  You are ruining this country with causing more division.

Most things in this world either rely on petroleum to ship it, or the product itself is made from petrochemicals.  

I actually know where my power comes from.  Do you? Mine comes from the Four Corners Power Plant and it is burned coal.  

NO that’s you but keep playing your childish games.  Oh wait, you are a paid spammer to cover up the truth.

I actually have a wife.  I bet you two don’t because you are liars and you name cal when you have no better argument.

“So There” is a paid spammer who has copied and pasted 2000 of his same hate speech spewing to every argument I have made in the last two days.  He has no arguments but to name call at my every discussion.  He is on here 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  What a sad life ST.  I know you are paid but please go volunteer for a charity or find a healthy way to channel all of that built up hate and anger.  You might have a heart attack or something.  Go try and find a lady friend or something.

“So There” is a paid spammer who has copied and pasted 2000 of his same hate speech spewing to every argument I have made in the last two days.  He has no arguments but to name call at my every discussion.  He is on here 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  What a sad life ST.  I know you are paid but please go volunteer for a charity or find a healthy way to channel all of that built up hate and anger.  You might have a heart attack or something.  Go try and find a lady friend or something.

“So There” is a paid spammer who has copied and pasted 2000 of his same hate speech spewing to every argument I have made in the last two days.  He has no arguments but to name call at my every discussion.  He is on here 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  What a sad life ST.  I know you are paid but please go volunteer for a charity or find a healthy way to channel all of that built up hate and anger.  You might have a heart attack or something.  Go try and find a lady friend or something.

“So There” is a paid spammer who has copied and pasted 2000 of his same hate speech spewing to every argument I have made in the last two days.  He has no arguments but to name call at my every discussion.  He is on here 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  What a sad life ST.  I know you are paid but please go volunteer for a charity or find a healthy way to channel all of that built up hate and anger.  You might have a heart attack or something.  Go try and find a lady friend or something.

“So There” is a paid spammer who has copied and pasted 2000 of his same hate speech spewing to every argument I have made in the last two days.  He has no arguments but to name call at my every discussion.  He is on here 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  What a sad life ST.  I know you are paid but please go volunteer for a charity or find a healthy way to channel all of that built up hate and anger.  You might have a heart attack or something.  Go try and find a lady friend or something.

ST you should watch GB’s show last night about restoring love, not spreading hate.  It might help you with your hate and anger issues

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money and to smuggle some slaves into the US so they can work in my fields.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money.

“TMP”

“So There” is a paid spammer who has copied and pasted 2000 of his same hate speech spewing to every argument I have made in the last two days.  He has no arguments but to name call at my every discussion.  He is on here 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  What a sad life ST.  I know you are paid but please go volunteer for a charity or find a healthy way to channel all of that built up hate and anger.  You might have a heart attack or something.  Go try and find a lady friend or something.

Oil only provides 1% of the electricity in this country as of 2009, you idiot.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money.

“TMP”

I don’t need a job, I own my own company. I have millions of dollars and a plantation full of slaves.

“TMP”

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money.

“TMP”

“So There” is a paid spammer who has copied and pasted 2000 of his same hate speech spewing to every argument I have made in the last two days.  He has no arguments but to name call at my every discussion.  He is on here 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  What a sad life ST.  I know you are paid but please go volunteer for a charity or find a healthy way to channel all of that built up hate and anger.  You might have a heart attack or something.  Go try and find a lady friend or something.

ST you should watch GB’s show last night about restoring love, not spreading hate.  It might help you with your hate and anger issues and help save this country.

Deep ending again. Enjoy your temper tantrum little child.

“TMP”

“SO There” proves my point by all the lies and hate spread by GBTV followers.  Just look at his last 20 posts.  No arguments and just name calling as his arguments.

You should have your head examined. You’re an idiot.

“TMP”

He says YOU are spamming?!?

Allow me a moment to regain my composure…

Many of you should listen to GB’s love episode instead of spreading more hate.  In GB’s word’s. ” the window for change is closing”.

Many of you should listen to GB’s love episode instead of spreading more hate.  In GB’s word’s. ” the window for change is closing”.

Look at your last 600 posts, just hate filled spam and childish rhetoric.

“TMP”

He has made spamming this site his lifetime goal and pledge. I have the hook firmly set in his lip, look at him go. He told me that he could have his own business if the Government would just give him a tax cut. He thinks that’s what it takes to build a successful business. He also thinks I have slaves, what a dolt.

It’s a fun game, watching him splash around on the site but it’s become boring. He lacks imagination. I’m going to TFC where the grownups are.

LMAO

“TMP”

Let people decide for themselves…HATER

More name calling….look at GB’s love episode HATER!..Don’t have a heart attack

More lies ST…..get your head examined.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you believed his constant lying.

More name calling and hate from ST…Watch GB’s love episode to address your hate and excessive anger.

“So There” is a paid spammer who has copied and pasted 2000 of his same hate speech spewing to every argument I have made in the last two days.  He has no arguments but to name call at my every discussion.  He is on here 16 hours a day, 7 days a week.  What a sad life ST.  I know you are paid but please go volunteer for a charity or find a healthy way to channel all of that built up hate and anger.

They already have you moron. You really can’t be that stupid, can you?

“TMP”

It does not surprise me that you continue to lie about everything. So There has a lot more on the ball than you ever will, and yes I believe him, he is not the one who is lying – you own that distinction.

You’re an idiot and a hate filled spammer. All your spam proves it.

Folks, please take time to read this idiots attempt to bring people together by dividing the Nation with his rhetoric hate and spam.

Enjoy you childish new obsession little boy. You whine about not getting tax breaks so you can start your own business and then you spend countless hours here spreading your hatred for people who actually do work and build their own businesses.

Stay stupid, you’re good at it. I have to fly down to the Caicos Islands this weekend to deposit my two suitcases filled with money.

“TMP”

Now you are saying that you Love Glenn Beck and his message. Amazing the power of Beck!

“TMP”

You just don’t get it skidmark, we all know each other on Glenn Beck dot com. We’re a family here. You’re a spamming hate filled outsider.

“TMP”

More lies ST.  You said it is okay to give tax breaks to the rich because it creates jobs.  Its obvious your biased opinion from a somebody who told me they were rich.  Thank god you are leaving so you can stop FOLLOWING ME AND HARASSING ME EVERYWHERE I GO.  How can somebody agree with this sick in the head fool.  Liar and hater.  You need to seek medical help for your constant lying medical condition.

Thank God we can move on from the childishness when ST leaves.   YEAHHHHHHHHHH

They already have me?????????

More name calling from a hater and habitual liar to cover the truth.

I know you work for GBTV, paid spammer and hater to cover up the truth!

You keep telling yourself that loser.

“TMP”

More lies ST…never said I love GB.  You always fabricate to make your weak arguments fit.  

I have faith you will leave before he does. He’s been here a lot longer than you, and he is not a foolish boy like you appear to be.

Are you saying that you hate him now, make up your mind little child.

Spam post # 809.

“TMP”

He’s strtlk on a temper tantrum.

“TMP”

Nice replacing the comma…I am sure you will lie about that too.  AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a hate filled post strtlk. Hatemonger.

“TMP”

No, I’m intelligent enough to correct my typo’s.

“TMP”

You are obviously a liar and a hater too, which is an all too familiar pattern from GBTV followers.  Wonder why so many followers are like this-trying to cover the truth.

More lies ST.  You said it is okay to give tax breaks to the rich because it creates jobs.  Its obvious your biased opinion from a somebody who told me they were rich.  Thank god you are leaving so you can stop FOLLOWING ME AND HARASSING ME EVERYWHERE I GO.  How can somebody agree with this sick in the head fool.  Liar and hater.  You need to seek medical help for your constant lying medical condition.

More childish posts and lies I see.  Get a life already would ya?

But, and I mean this in the nicest way, Skidmark, you are an idiot, and that is the truth. I know you don’t want to accept it, but eventually you will have to and as soon as you do you will feel much better about yourself and the world you say is being destroyed by people who tell you the truth.

You can leave any time. We will not mind or think less of you; well we will think less of you, but that will be because you are no longer being a troll here.

He says you are leaving. I think he means he wishes you were.

You are obviously a liar and a hater too, which is an all too familiar pattern from GBTV trolls. Wonder why so many trolls are like this-trying to cover the truth.

Neeeehhhh.  You two are the idiots but good try.  The rest of the world is seeing through your bull shit like tax breaks for the rich are what we need more of.  You are the minority who believe whatever crap is spewed.  

Now with the vulgar comments again. Nice.

“TMP”

Yes, I’m filthy rich with suitcases full of cash. You can’t touch me because I have tax breaks and you don’t. That’s why you can’t start your own business. I have all the money.

“TMP”

After Dood called me an idiot.  But keep lying to people to cover the truth.  All they have to do is read “So There’s” posts.  All you can do is name call and lie when you have no argument left.

I learned from you…so thank you

He’s a fish with a hook in his lip. You do know this is strtlk. He’s throwing a temper tantrum because he was booted for GB.com.

It’s all a put on from the liar and bigot. He has to be careful what he posts so he doesn’t expose who he really is. That’s why it’s all cut and paste and short ignorant posts.

“TMP”

Of course you did. Thanks. Being an ignorant moron you could do nothing else.

“TMP”

But you are an idiot.

“TMP”

More name calling,…you always prove my point.  When will you stop with the childish posts?  Probably never because that is all you seem to know how to do.  No truth, discussions-just name calling and spreading more hate.  

You have no point except the one on the top of your head.

No, no truth discussions with a hatemonger who wouldn’t know the truth if it stuck on top of your pointy head.

“TMP”

You seriously make me realize that is people like you who ruin this country.  Never trying to come up with a solution.  I have tried to work with people from day one but you name call and lie because you have no argument.  The quicker you realize this, the quicker this country can heal.  

I am willing to have a humane conversation with you right now but I guarantee you will come back right now with more name calling and lies

Seriously. Who have you tried to work with strtlk? You are here dividing our community and spreading your hate.

“TMP”

You want my solution, well here it is, you should go and get a real education and then come back and we will talk like grownups little boy.

“TMP”

Let have it. You start. The first one to post hateful or ignorant information loses.

“TMP”

That’s what It thought!

One post and you lose already.

“TMP”

Here is one question from someone who was actually trying to come to a solution.  Name 5 things you would do to help restore this country and deal with corruption.  Because from the beginning I have said that when you boil away the BS, most people want the same thing.  

Do you want me to start?  1)  Eliminate big government!

How would you do that?

“TMP”

You prove my point already.  It’s not a competition but obviously you like the division for some sick reason.  Keep spreading hate and division to destroy this country!

REALLY??? This country is hopeless!

Is that an insult already strtlk? You didn’t do so good with the conversation you wanted to have.

“TMP”

You should go somewhere else then.

“TMP”

Not willing to work with me?  Your true colors are showing.

First of all by not thinking that any of the GOP candidates will change anything like GB mentioned in his restore love episode.

No…you said you lose already, which is causing division.

How would you help the move towards a smaller government  ST?

No, but you appear to be.

You guys prove my point.  NOT WILLING TO WORK TOWARDS A SOLUTION.  

Your misinterpretations based on your flawed knowledge do not reflect the reality of the situation.

More name calling Dood.  Are you willing to work towards a solution?

Sorry, but I wont play that game. You said you would eliminate big Government, I asked how you would do it? Please, answer how you would eliminate Big Government.

I’ll wait for your reply.

“TMP”

I completely agree. If it walks like a duck… It ain’t a catfish.

He must have had to get his IP changed. That cost him.

I said what GB said yesterday by not relying on a President to solve that problem.  Why would they give up their power?  You always ask questions but never answer any.

It’s not hard and they don’t ban people’s IP’s here. They just use Disqus to block the ID’s.

“TMP”

It starts by working in your local community and being around people who hold the same values as you but also working with others who have different believes and respecting those differences.

Is that the answer to how you would get rid of Big Government? It makes no sense, we are having a two way discussion, right? Saying you would get rid of Big Government isn’t a solution, actually explaining how you would get rid of Big Government would be a solution. Are you saying that you agree with Glenn Beck now? I want to know how YOU would do it?

I’ll let you have another crack at it.

I’ll wait.

“TMP”

Passing laws that you hold dear to you and your community.  Boulder County is working towards eliminating corporate personhood, which ended up on the ballot in November and the county is also working towards more local foods and eliminating GMO’s.

Local communities need to pass laws that give governments less power such as one term limits so politicians don’t only care and pass laws and return favors to people who got them elected in the first place.

Now I will kindly, and patiently wait for you to answer the same question and yes I will respect any difference of opinions if presented properly.

If you don’t agree that getting rid of big government isn’t a solution then say so with out being offensive.  I said it starts with passing laws and one of them is limiting politicians to one term!

Well, that’s all well and good, communities are already doing that right now. How would that get rid of Big Business. I’m sorry but that answer holds no real solutions. I’ll let you have one more crack at it but explain HOW you would get rid of Big Government, you know what procedure you would use to achieve such a thing?

A real solution, you know? The Touchy Feely stuff won’t do it.

“TMP”

You are not willing to work toward a solution here, much less in a world sized scope.

How does that make no sense.  I gave examples of local laws being enacted and that politicians should have one term.  Please don’t be rude ST!

How do you do it? It may be a very good idea and I don’t disagree with it but how would you achieve the goal. Just saying it won’t make it happen, and it’s not a solution to making it happen.

“TMP”

My examples were laws passed that empowers local communities, such as one term limits to politicians.

I’m sorry, where did you mention any local laws being enacted? I must have missed that. What local laws would you have enacted? Now I’m rude. You do know that you just broke our agreement not to cast aspersions and comments like that at one another. I’m willing to let it pass if you can give me some examples of the laws you would pass.

I’ll wait.

“TMP”

More’s the pity. IP blocks work so well.

I know, that’s how it’s done at TFC coupled with a moderator who keeps an eye on what’s going on. They block over 50 spammers a day over there.

“TMP”

If your so smart ST than what’s your solution.  You have criticized mine, such as one term limits but have given no solutions of your own.  Please enlighten me if I am so misguided.  I knew you would disagree about corporate personhood and that’s fine but Boulder Count doesn’t.  That was an example of empowering local communities by passing local laws and one should be one term limits.

You can pass laws limiting State politicians but that can’t be done on a National basis. What if you have a wonderful State rep who is doing everything right and would really improve the State and you limit him to just one term? What then?

“TMP”

Exactly what name did I call you –

“23 minutes ago Doodaddio posted: No, but you appear to be.”

Hopeless is not a derogatory name, it is a statement of your reasoning capacity – and a truthful one. Go back and read your own profile.

You broke our agreement by saying “that makes no sense”.  You have not given any solutions! 

One term limits would eliminate SOME of the corruption of politicians by not only care about getting reelected.  Please enlighten me with any of your solutions.

I’m not criticizing your solution because you really haven’t presented one yet. You made a statement with no really solutions in it. Wait a minute, have moved on to “corporate personhood” [sic]now? We haven’t gotten past the Big Government solution yet.

You only slightly touched on the “small Government” aspects of the discussion. Lets finish with the first point before jumping into something totally different.

“TMP”

Going back to my reply to this:

You can pass laws limiting State politicians but that can’t be done on a National basis. What if you have a wonderful State rep who is doing everything right and would really improve the State and you limit him to just one term? What then?

“TMP”

So what’s your better solution?

What if they are Bush or Obama..what then?

That was an example of my County passing laws to empower them.  

I respect that you disagree with me but I ask you what is your solution?  I thought this was a two way conversation???

I’d let the people decide their own fate. If a local or National Government is corrupt it’s up to the people to decide what happens. So far the people are ignorant of almost everything political. There is no solution to that problem skirmark. We live in a nation of laws and lawmakers. They decide our fate because people are ignorant of their political responsibility to make sure things are done according to the law.

It’s not what you wanted to hear was it? You still haven’t explained how you would get rid of Big Government?

“TMP”

I am not trying to pass this law on a National level.  I think more power should go back to the states.  

You need to stop posting before you receive a reply from me. I cannot follow the discussion when you post half a dozen times between responses.

“TMP”

Are you suggesting that we don’t elect Presidents?

“TMP”

Your county is hardly Big Government.

“TMP”

Are you talking about the 10th Amendment? The power is already there under the Constitution. You still have to deal with the Federal Government. “Big Government”.

Your turn.

“TMP”

You still haven’t given a solution! I did and I respectfully agree to disagree.

I agree with that and if they are corrupt, they should be overthrown.

So you think the people need to rise up and overthrow the government when it becomes to big and corrupt?

Corporations, Unions and money buys elections.  We may think we do but the election process is flawed.  Would you agree that the election process needs changed?

That is why this country was founded as a Republic because many people are clueless.

My point was that my local community was empowering itself.

There is no solution to what you want to do”get rid of Big Government” unless it is returning to the Constitution as a basis for everything that is going on in this country.

That means getting rid of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, unemployment insurance, welfare, food stamps, EPA, FCC, FDA, all the social nets, ect ect. My solution would be to go back to a free economy but that will never happen because of all those social programs and people who think that those who make it in life are to blames for the Nations ills. You do know who I’m talking about, right?

Do you see that ever happening? I’m live in the real world as a business owner, I pay outrageous amounts of taxes to support all those programs and receive no benefit from most of them.

I think my reply to you is a bit more in depth than the one you posted to me, don’t you think?

Your turn.

“TMP”

Without me, they couldn’t exist, yet you want more from me.

Look skiermark, you have to stop posting half a dozen comments between posts. I won’t play the catch-up game. Put your posts into a single thought and wait for a reply from me.

I won’t play the game you’re playing.

“TMP”

That’s not the point.  I am trying to work towards a common solution.  

Yes I think that there should be flat tax rate and everything should be on a level playing field, where no body gets tax breaks or subsidies including the rich obviously.

You said,
“So you think the people need to rise up and overthrow the government when it becomes to big and corrupt?”

Where did you get that from? Not from anything I’ve posted.

“TMP”

You said there is no solution to big government, right?… and that people should have the power, which I agree on and getting back to the constitution.  But that won’t solve the problem either because the people in power don’t want to give up their power.

I have my work Holiday party so I need to go pick up my wife from work.  Get back to me if you want to continue this conversation.  PeAcE

Just believing in the constitution doesn’t fix the problem either.  How do you implement it?

I hope to see the response when I get home.

There is never going to be a level playing field, that’s a pipe dream of a Socialist nature. Flat tax is good but it will never see the light of day. It would never pass the House or Senate. It would also mean getting rid of 100,000 Government tax collectors.

Again you return to bashing the rich. You do have to have someone to blame for the Nations ills, don’t you?

Lets talk about those hated rich you keep bringing up, shall we?

Take a look around you, what do you see? A computer, a TV running in the background, carpets, furniture, windows, clothes, microwave, lighting, a car in the garage, maybe two, streets, fire trucks, heat coming out of the vents, radios, cell phones, ect, ect, all brought to you by someone who had an idea, the drive and the willingness to take a risk. They have made this country the most socially advanced in the world. The rich are the innovator, the risk takers, the people who said to themselves “I can make that better” or “I can solve that problem to make life more comfortable”, you know the makers of stuff that you depend on every day.

Well what about the Bankers and Wall Street? Lets take on w
Wall Street first, shall we? The people on Wall street arrange to sell stock (raise money) for up and coming businesses whit an idea. Anyone can buy that stock but there’s no guarantee that the company will be a success. If they make a profit they can expand, if they don’t they go out of business, removing jobs from the economy.

I’d go on but I think I’ve lost you by now with real world logic.

You’re turn.

“TMP”

We have a Constitution that governs the Government in this country.

I told you to stop posting between comments and replies.

I won’t play the catch up game.

As far as this conversation goes, it’s over as far as I’m concerned. Enjoy your night at work.

“TMP”

You tell me? You want to get rid of Big Government, how do you do that under the Constitution?

“TMP”

Now you’re just repeating what I’ve already posted. Thanks for agreeing with me.

You’re coming around.

“TMP”

Use your 2nd Amendment …….. LOL
Protect against a tyrannical gov’t

Putting words in someone else’s mouth is another way these folks try to keep manipulating the conversation. If they don’t accept what you are saying they think telling you that you said something else entirely makes their argument have merit. Too bad the reality runs counter to that tactic. Too bad for them that is.

I never said you wanted an armed revolt.  I asked a question.  You just don’t have any solutions.

These folks? categorizing again….

Not bashing the rich but you want a level playing field but still believe tax breaks for the rich.  Nobody buys that lie anymore.

Sounds good in theory but it won’t work.

Your problem is your arrogance is your downfall.  You think you know everything but you still have no solutions and you resort to name calling and bashing others.  You are a joke.  You want a level playing field but still believe in tax breaks for the rich.  The world doesn’t believe this lie anymore.  It ALREADY ruined this country.

You have lost me with your BS and bashing once again.  Your argument has proved nothing except that you think you know stuff but really you don’t know much.  It’s a shame that people think the way you do.  Again I can see you don’t want to work with others.  

I pay taxes for the same shit and I have never used welfare, food stamps or any of these social nets because I bust my ass.

You couldn’t follow the truth if it smacked your arrogant, ignorant ass in the face.

You  want a level playing field except that you believe the rich should get more tax breaks.  That might be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

How is this bashing the rich.  You are a joke and a waste of time.  I said the rich shouldn’t get more benefits than the rest of the people.  The only reason you believe this is because you are rich.  And the only people who still spew these lies to people who don’t know any better are the rich.  

The majority of the world doesn’t buy the lies created by the rich that tax breaks for the rich is more of what we need to fix the problem.  I am scared that it will get real ugly, real fast if it happens more and more further widening the gap between the rich and the poor.  The poor will not take this grand lie anymore and they are beginning to see the truth and unfortunately the poor are getting very angry and violent and actions have already been seen against the rich.  It is getting real ugly and scary but keep believing the lies by the rich (yourself “So There”).

  You claim that people need to get a job but there aren’t many jobs to be had, let alone good jobs.  This is for people who are starting to see the truth and not for you ST because you are so cocky and set in your little minded way that you will never change your puny mind and narrow way of thinking. 

 Please people don’t keep believing the lies projected by the rich that tax breaks for the rich creates jobs.  If the middle class got breaks they could also have enough money to create jobs Lets eliminate the middle class even more which makes this country.  There will be no slave laborers left to make you money if you keep funneling money towards the top.  

THE ONL SOLUTION THAT WILL SAVE THIS COUNTRY IS A BOTTOM UP SOCIETY because the trickle down affect is a proven failure over the last several decades and is the biggest scam ever, which ruined this country.

No, liberal out of control spending and Congress’ failure for two years running to draft and get a budget approved ruined the economy.

So now your boundless narcissism allows you to speak for the world does it?

Don’t ever tell anyone else they are arrogant, you just cornered the market on that.

Not blaming the rich ST…putting words in my mouth AGAIN.  Blaming the  lies and saying that more tax breaks and money to the rich is the biggest problem.  The corruption from wall street, big banks and the military-industrial complex where corporations benefit from unjust wars where innocent people die.  Unfortunately if we believe this lie that tax breaks for the rich is more of what we need, GB will be right that next Summer is going to get real ugly.  The truth will prevail and judgment day is here sooner than people realize.  The problem is greed and people care more about money than truth, justice, fairness and people just like Glenn Beck mentioned in his restore love episode.  

The problem with you ST is you want fairness except when it comes to tax breaks for the rich and people on here know that is the biggest lie ever.

And a huge part of the problem you fail to see is Bush’s breaks to his rich friends.  The economy crashed in 2008 after 8 years of Bush.

The majority of the world doesn’t buy the lies created by the rich that tax breaks for the rich is more of what we need to fix the problem.  I am scared that it will get real ugly, real fast if it happens more and more further widening the gap between the rich and the poor.  The poor will not take this grand lie anymore and they are beginning to see the truth and unfortunately the poor are getting very angry and violent and actions have already been seen against the rich.  It is getting real ugly and scary but keep believing the lies by the rich (yourself “So There”).

  You claim that people need to get a job but there aren’t many jobs to be had, let alone good jobs.  This is for people who are starting to see the truth and not for you ST because you are so cocky and set in your little minded way that you will never change your puny mind and narrow way of thinking. 

 Please people don’t keep believing the lies projected by the rich that tax breaks for the rich creates jobs.  If the middle class got breaks they could also have enough money to create jobs Lets eliminate the middle class even more which makes this country.  There will be no slave laborers left to make you money if you keep funneling money towards the top.  

THE ONL SOLUTION THAT WILL SAVE THIS COUNTRY IS A BOTTOM UP SOCIETY because the trickle down affect is a proven failure over the last several decades and is the biggest scam ever, which ruined this country.Edit
Reply

Now you are copying and pasting your own BS in the same thread? (Try not to copy the edit and reply buttons next time.)

I have to agree the person you are responding to is a joke. As you responded to yourself.

way to make an intelligent post instead of bashing others

You believe this lie too Todd?

ST is back to hating and not working with others.  Exactly what is wrong with this country-people who like to divide the country.

Funny semantic games coming from you of all people. If you prefer, I can use the term liberals – still amounts to the same idea. Are you denying you try to steer the conversation by hijacking, misquoting, or falsely attributing language to others comments?

Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH Bash BUSH – did that help you?

The economy did not crash because of Bush – and you still don’t understand that all the social engineering Congress – controlled by democrats during the majority of Bush’s 8 years in office, had more to do with the economic problems we are still faced with than anything Bush did. The economy is Obama’s tar baby now. Clinton gave birth to it, Bush failed to be able to do anything to correct it due to Congress’ interference like all the mortgage Fanny/Freddy shenanigans with the toxic loans for the unqualified buyers that were forced down the throats of all the banks, and now Obama’s incompetent handling of it has bankrupted the nation. He owns the tar baby now. Are you going to deny that too?

So far all I have seen you do is post the same thing over and over again.

No, I am one of the people that disagrees with Anthropogenic Climate Change, or Global warming. Even Phil Jones admits there is not consensus on climate change.

Do you believe that we need more tax breaks for the rich to save this country?

I actually admit that it was Bush and Obama because I am not narrow-minded.

Tax breaks? Not sure that they will turn the economy around.
I know that raising taxes on them to 100% will not solve the problem, there are not enough to make a dent. So you and Obama saying that they should be are both idiots.

A better solution would be closing the loopholes that allow them to reduce their tax rate, and make it a responsible rate to begin with.

You do realize that Bush reduced the taxes in all brackets? You also realize that Obama extended them, and is asking for an extension of payroll tax cuts?

You said that I said that I wanted an armed revolt. You said it twice. I kept to the agreement, you didn’t and now you have returned to your name calling and hate posts. Why?

Why did you feel it necessarily to post this :

“skiermark replied to you
Your problem is your arrogance is your downfall. You think you know everything but you still have no solutions and you resort to name calling and bashing others. You are a joke. You want a level playing field but still believe in tax breaks for the rich. The world doesn’t believe this lie anymore. It ALREADY ruined this country.skiermark replied to you
You have lost me with your BS and bashing once again. Your argument has proved nothing except that you think you know stuff but really you don’t know much. It’s a shame that people think the way you do. Again I can see you don’t want to work with others.” That’s a blatant lie skidmark.

Or this:

“skiermark replied to you
I pay taxes for the same shit and I have never used welfare, food stamps or any of these social nets because I bust my ass.”

Or this:

skiermark replied to you
You couldn’t follow the truth if it smacked your arrogant, ignorant ass in the face.”

Or this:

skiermark replied to you
You want a level playing field except that you believe the rich should get more tax breaks. That might be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard in my entire life.”

Or this:

“skiermark replied to you

ST is back to hating and not working with others. Exactly what is wrong with this country-people who like to divide the country”

None of which are according to our agreement to discuss the difficulties in this country and to find solutions?

You have returned to your insulting spamming self and hate posts.

You don’t know how to have a civil conversation and you’re not a man who keeps his word. You are a divider and a hatemonger.

I have just proven that by showing what you are truly about, a spammer and a hatemonger.

Folks, this is skidmark who I tried to have an intelligent discussion with but he was either unwilling to hear another persons opinion hear or he’s just not capable of a normal dialogue with anyone who doesn’t believe what he believes.

You make your own judgment of this little child.

“TMP”

Todd, this idiot and I had made an agreement to have a civil discussion without the name calling and attacks. It ended when he didn’t like what I posted in reply to his questions.

He’s an idiot who couldn’t keep his word for one discussion and now is back to his hate posts and spam.

He’s a dishonorable idiot spewing his leftist rhetoric and hate.

“TMP”

You’re a dishonest person who can’t keep his word.

“TMP”

You’re a dishonest person who can’t keep his word.

“TMP”

You’re a dishonest person who can’t keep his word.

“TMP”

You’re a dishonest person who can’t keep his word.

“TMP”

You’re a dishonest person who can’t keep his word.

“TMP”

You’re a dishonest person who can’t keep his word.

“TMP”

You’re a dishonest person who can’t keep his word.

“TMP”

You’re a dishonest person who can’t keep his word.

“TMP”

Again you call me a name and make things up by saying that I want the same thing as Obama.  

I know 100% tax raise isn’t the answer but either is tax breaks for the wealthy.

That is a blatant lie….Everybody on here has attacked me verbally first including you ST.

That is a blatant lie….Everybody on here has attacked me verbally first including you ST.

That is a blatant lie….Everybody on here has attacked me verbally first including you ST.

Under Bush, the percentage increase in after-tax income tilts greatly in favor of those making over $1 million, for one, especially when compared to Americans making between $40,000-$50,000. And at a time when the country is sunk in $14.3 trillion worth of debt, it’s adding vastly to deficit, too. Indeed, the cost of the upper-income tax cuts is roughly equal to the Social Security shortfall in that span.

Three things ….
1. Where is your sense of humor?
2. How do you know for a fact that it won’t work? Because it has not worked anywhere before? like in the Middle East countries? or against the tyrannical British for our freedom? or Castro in Cuba? I could go on and on but it would be pointless …. you should get my drift.
3. Don’t be so negative.

We had an agreement and you broke it. You are not a man of your word, you went on to posted more hate filled posts directed at me and GB.

You’re a hatemonger.

“TMP”

We had an agreement and you broke it. You are not a man of your word, you went on to posted more hate filled posts directed at me and GB.

You’re a hatemonger.

“TMP”

We had an agreement and you broke it. You are not a man of your word, you went on to posted more hate filled posts directed at me and GB.

You’re a hatemonger.

“TMP”

We had an agreement and you broke it. You are not a man of your word, you went on to posted more hate filled posts directed at me and GB.

You’re a hatemonger.

“TMP”

skiermark,
You are so smart, you think someone “attacked (you) verbally” with written words. Not helping your argument out by being wrong.

First off where did I say that you want the same thing as Obama? Now who is making stuff up? I simply asked if you were aware that Obama is requesting an extension of the payroll tax reductions.

Obama wants to raise taxes on the rich, you want to raise taxes on the rich. It is you that is writing that you want the same thing as Obama not me. Now run along and play with your mentally ill friends because apparently you are not intellectually capable of having an intellectual discussion.

Obama, September 08, 2011 Before a Joint Session of Congress: “I am also — I’m also well aware that there are many Republicans who don’t believe we should raise taxes on those who are most fortunate and can best afford it. But here is what every American knows: While most people in this country struggle to make ends meet, a few of the most affluent citizens and most profitable corporations enjoy tax breaks and loopholes that nobody else gets. Right now, Warren Buffett pays a lower tax rate than his secretary — an outrage he has asked us to fix. (Laughter.) We need a tax code where everyone gets a fair shake and where everybody pays their fair share. (Applause.) And by the way, I believe the vast majority of wealthy Americans and CEOs are willing to do just that if it helps the economy grow and gets our fiscal house in order.”- http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/09/08/address-president-joint-session-congress

skeirmark: keeps complaining about tax breaks to the rich, if you take away the tax breaks you will increase the taxes on the rich. Yeah seems like you two want the same thing to me.

Todd, this guy does this conversation steering bit all the time. Once he gets someone engaged, he projects, twists, fabricates and misinterprets what the other person has said, and it gets to the point that he is telling that person what they said – the only thing is what he says the other person said isn’t anything like the original statement in any way, shape or form.

ST and I have had a run in with him a time or two in the past week or so, and like a true liberal/progressive all he ends up is reciting talking points and assigning blame. Then if you respond he accuses you of hate. It’s MtClayBore all over again.

Your claim to speak for the rest of the world can best be described as
DELUSIONAL.

Your entire post is entropic nonsense. Were you wearing your tin foil when you wrote this gem?

I had actually heard that the original study model was designed to study gases on uranus the planet not the polititian.For the study to be used here for political reason as well as monetary coincides with Al Gore and his losing bid for the Presidency. I may be wrong but that sort of fits the time line.What was it 3yrs or so that the UN wanted developing countrysto get a pass on paying for their carbon emissions but the US did not? Now we are shipping in a vast amount of parts for oilfield use from China and India,hell I’ve got the msn name plate on my bulletin board from one of the vedors w/ the craziest fax number ever.But they are going gang busters making whay we do here cheaper due to this BS.The only thing we can alter is ourselves.If some “globalwarmingologist thinks he or she can change the weather run out into that next Zunami and stop it.

That guys central processor is malfunctioning big time.

His conversations must be occurring during REM sleep. That is the only way to account for the transformation of the topic in a sane mind.

I agree. I’ll bet he doesn’t like cheese.

It looks like he is stuck in a do loop trying to divide by zero to me.

LOL …. not sure what a dislike for cheese may have on the situation where the story takes on a new direction at every post. But do have fun with it as that is all you can really do at this point..

It was from a commercial from several years ago –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5v9i04XsqU

It was made for the American Dairy Association.

I was in agreement with Bob Dole on this guy.

OK – I checked it out…. how goofy..LOL

Check the Friend Center… You’ve Got Mail!

Reply to me there.

So now we can add Van Jones to your many socks-you’re pathetic,you weasel.

Wonder if I do too,Dood.
I see the weasel is here.

He thinks repetition sells his points-not.

you have mail!

Friend Center

“So you and Obama saying that they should be are both idiots”..your words Todd saying me and Obama want the same things.  You and our brainwashed friends are mentally-ill.   

AGW scientists oddly all seem to be affiliated with the corrupt IPCC, and the UN. Hmmm. You have not done your homework, the majority of temp change is clearly driven by the sun (wow doesn’t that just make sense), affected by patterns that LexBob talks about. Please research the latest authoritative papers by THE scholar on this whole topic, Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT, who isn’t on the payroll of those with political agendas, and maybe you’ll begin to wake up. He has proven, by meticulous OBSERVATION RATHER THAN BS COMPUTER MODELS, that this whole thing is a stinking pile of …………., that the impact of extra CO2 is only a tiny fraction of computer model guesswork (CO2 being a very weak “greenhouse gas” to begin with). Please consult the commentary of the distinguished Lord Monckton of Britain for why you are so thoroughly being deceived by sources you thought you could trust. And when reviewing your trusted AGW devotees, don’t forget to check out Steve McIntyre, slayer extroidinaire, of the ridiculous, fraudulent ”hockey stick” graph that is the centerpiece graph of the IPCC studies as well as Al Whore’s fictional film “An Inconvenient Truth”, a film that had the audacity to suggest, among many other lies, that CO2 drives temperature, when honest science, and irrefutable ice cores have proven that it is the other way around, that in the geologic record, when TEMP increase, THEN!!!! CO2 levels rise, not the other way around (wow, doesn’t that just make sense).

You are the one that is replying to yourself, so who is demonstrating mental illness? Remember you are the idiot that thinks it is not plagiarism because you are on a blog. Plagiarism is plagiarism regardless of where it is done.

Since you are slow follow along: You do understand that taking away a tax cut equals a tax increase, right. Really not all that hard logically to understand for a person with more than two brain cells.

Obama wants to raise taxes on the rich, skiermark wants to take away tax cuts from the rich. What was it Shakespeare wrote about a rose again?
“What’s in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet” -Juliet in Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2). (That is how you keep from committing plagiarism, and not proving your self to be the idiot that you are.)

I highly doubt that you have friends that the rest of us can see.

False. Incorrect. Untrue.

You assaulted this site, GlennBeck.com with your anti beck rants and 500 posts in three days time. This is spamming, and it is troll behavior. You need a time out – and we all could use a break from your barrage of trash talk. Maybe you need to think about that the next time you logon and start your one man blog flooding campaign.

Only when people started reacting to your incessant droning hate speech did the name calling start, and you were the one who started it. Every person who challenged you got treated to your lack of civility and frankly, besides being tiresome, you are an insult to the intelligence of everyone who ever has the misfortune of mistakenly taking you seriously by reading one of your unbelievably prolific posts.

Before you accuse me, take a look at yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOJAwJA6IKg&feature=related

Because it won’t let me reply directly to some of you and S’s post

It would if your were smart enough. I have no issue replying to all of your comments.

It doesn’t have a reply button to click on your comment asshole.  Dumb asses like yourself are ruining this country.  

Corporate profits were higher than ever and the middle class is now poor with hard working people unable to save money.  So giving the rich more money will not create better paying jobs and more jobs. Its common sense, which you have none of.  The rich got richer and the poor got poorer under this brainwashed belief of yours.  

The depression started in 2008 after 8 years of war where no WMD’s were found and Haliburton profited from the war and 53% of taxpayer money funded this war.  Also, greater tax breaks for the wealthy have eliminated the middle class and you want more of the same.  You are either high, or really brainwashed because nobody is that dumb.

You are dumb….I am not taking credit or publishing someone else’s words stupid.  I just know you short-minded, brainwashed trolls don’t look at links so I copied and pasted a short section of it.  Try and get me in trouble for plagarism stupid. AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ya because most people with money are greedy and need more to keep their expensive lifestyles.  Corporate profits were more than ever because of greater tax breaks for the richest and the middle class has shrunk.  Tax increases also makes the gap between the rich and the poor grow because corporate profits are increasing and real-living wages are less than ever. Either way the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.  Its a lose, lose situation for the now lower class.  

COMMON SENSE..nobody believes these lies spewed by the wealthiest.  Just get out of your little bubble and talk to the average American who is now poor by American standards. Just ask the average American (not people within your little bubble) if they believe in bigger tax breaks for the rich.  They see that this is a LIE.   But that is okay because we still have it better than the rest of the world.  When it is not okay.  When the average American lives like the Chinese?

I guarantee I have way more friends than you.  Not just the 5 brainwashed buttholes who spend every second on GBTV, one of whom said they are rich…wonder why they support more breaks for the rich, which a majority don’t believe.  I was prom king of my shcool, I have over 500 friends on FB, a beautiful wife, and many awesome friends who I ski with regularly.  Can you say that..are you even married?  GET A LIFE rich, brainwashed trolls of GBTV.  Don’t believe everything the rich tell you because they have a special agenda.  MORE MONEY.

I am done with you brainwashed trolls who have nothing better to do but call me names.  None of you have had good arguments and you name call and blast me when you have no truth to back up your weak arguments.  

Some words of advice for you haters. GET A LIFE and get out of your little bubble and see the real world.  Just like this made up hate for the muslim world.  Your brainwashed into believing this.  Have you ever been to a muslim country and see how most of them live.  They have way more class than most Americans and would have me into their homes for dinner spending their last little bit of money.  

Their is greater interest than WMD’s which were never found in Irag either.  I said they would close the strait were much of the world’s oil passes through and now Iran is threatening to close the strait.  If we attack them they will definitely close the strait.  Either way the cost of oil will sykrocket even more putting an ever bigger stranglehold on the now lower class.  But as long as taxpayer money pay for this war and corporations benefit through the military-industrial complex, who cares.  Not you greedy buttholes.

I am done with you haters who have no good arguments but name calling.  Your life is  a joke.  GET A NEW ONE.

Words from The Hatemonger himself. Be gone, Hatemonger, you were never welcome by us loving people here. You didn’t last longer than an hour in our serious conversation before you resorted to your hate filled rhetoric,strtlk. You also failed to put out one workable solution in all of your ignorant posts.

Hatemonger.

Hatemonger.

Hatemonger.

Hatemonger.

What a name calling hate filled post.  Hypocrite.

First off, I did not call you a name. You r actions demonstrate that you are in fact an idiot.

Secondly, would you like a towel to cry into?

Third, you sir are the troll.

Fourth, there were 500 Chemical weapons found in Iraq, be definition those are WMD’s. Iraq also had possession of 155mm Artillery pieces, which are by definition WMD’s. Iraq also had Scud missiles which by definition are WMD’s. Stay stupid skeirmark, it fits you. A little military experience will teach you more than you want to know about WMD’s. A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large number of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general.

Fifth, if you are done with haters, does that mean you will stop with all your hate filled posts?

Sixth, you could not have posted this stuff yesterday and saved me the time?

Seventh, You know nothing about my life, so the fact that you can sit at a computer and call it a joke means nothing. It is hilarious that you rail against the very things you do in this post. Hypocrite much skeirmark?

LMAO. You do not even know me so your guarantee fits the definition used in Tommy Boy.

I do not even have an account at GBTV, so how am I spending all my time on it? Keep up the lies skeirmark, they prove NOTHING.

LMAO you were prom king of your HS, how many were in your graduating class? 4? Mine was 300 for a little town of 7.5 square miles.

500 friends on Facebook? How many of them do you actually know? This proves nothing.

LMAO, rich? Monetarily no, my salary is below the Federal Guidelines for the poverty level, in the important things in life, much more so than you. I am not bitter about my life as this post shows you to be.

LMAO. You do not even know me so your guarantee fits the definition used in Tommy Boy.

I do not even have an account at GBTV, so how am I spending all my time on it? Keep up the lies skeirmark, they prove NOTHING.

LMAO you were prom king of your HS, how many were in your graduating class? 4? Mine was 300 for a little town of 7.5 square miles.

500 friends on Facebook? How many of them do you actually know? This proves nothing.

LMAO, rich? Monetarily no, my salary is below the Federal Guidelines for the poverty level, in the important things in life, much more so than you. I am not bitter about my life as this post shows you to be.

Wait, you want to increase taxes on the rich because there is a gap between the rich and the poor right?

Then explain how you writing this makes sense with that: “Tax increases also makes the gap between the rich and the poor grow because corporate profits are increasing and real-living wages are less than ever.”

If tax increases increase the gap why do it?

Are you aware that only two countries have a higher Corporate tax rate than the United States? When was the last time you heard of a company moving jobs to Japan or Germany?

Here is an idea how about closing the loopholes that allow the rich and corporations to pay $0 in taxes?

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities’ Jared Bernstein notes that “corporate profits as a share of GDP, after tax, were the highest last quarter of any quarter in the history of these data going back to 1947.” Bernstein uses this stat to push back against conservatives who claim that corporate tax breaks will lead to hiring. “Why should we believe that even higher after-tax profits would make a difference?” Bernstein asked. “All these supply-side tax cuts will do is boost their already high bottom lines.” Corporate cash holdings are alreadyup 59 percent since 2008.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017018125_lowincome15.html

More than half of this country is NOW POOR as this article by the Seattle Times concludes.  The middle class is disappearing and tax breaks for the wealthiest are to blame…and is started before Obama just like the recession started in 2008 right as he started his presidency. Not saying he isn’t to blame for anything but not to blame for everything.

Seriously? The Census shows there a 307 Million People in the United States, making half of that 153.5 Million. There are only 146.4 Million at low income or below the poverty level.

You will notice unlike you, the Seattle Times used the word NEARLY, meaning almost. You, however, decided to claim MORE THAN HALF, and the numbers fall BELOW half. Keep proving you are an idiot skeirmark.

I’m sorry…nearly half of the country is now poor.  Corporate profits are higher than ever, up 59% since 2008 and there are less jobs, so the belief that more money to corporations will add more jobs is insanity-doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.  I am worried that people aren’t buying it.  Some of the GOP candidates want 0% corporate tax rates and I am afraid that this will lead to an Obama reelection.

I bet sooner than later it will be a majority.  I stated months ago that the gap between the rich and the poor is growing at a scary rate and many called me names and said it’s not true.  But now they agree but say it’s good for jobs…COME ON MAN (ESPN segment)!

What has any of this to do with the Climate?

Companies are making more with less, imagine that, it leads to larger profits.

So how do you create enough jobs expanding the government to create jobs? You have to have at least 2 1%er private sector jobs to fund one federal government job.

Which GOP candidate proposed 0% Corporate Tax rates?
Ron Paul: 15%
Santorum: 0% on Manufacturing only to bring back those jobs.
Bachmann: Is open to the idea proposed by Sarah Palin, who is not RUNNING.
Perry: 20% Corporate Tax rate.
Gingrich: 12.5% Corporate Tax rate.
Romney: 25% Corporate tax rate.
Huntsman: 25% Corporate Tax rate
Huh…still looking for a Candidate that PROPOSED 0% Corporate tax rate.

I’m sorry…I was about 1% off from it being a majority.  Sooner than later it will be a majority because of the inequality.  Keep proving you are an asshole.  You were probably one of the idiot’s who argued that the gap isn’t growing between the rich and poor but still try to justify it.

What rate is it growing at? A kiddie roller-coaster is scary to you.

It is good for the economy to correct itself (the problem is the idiots Businessmen like you) have not been allowed to fail.

Santorum and Bachmann at least….and I would bet Newt!

And you sir are an idiot. It was Sarah Palin who is not even running.

You failed basic math didn’t you. 146.4 Million is 7.1 Million short of half (153.5 Million) and comes out to 2.3% of the total, so you missed your guess by double. Keep proving you are an idiot for me.

I am an asshole because you are wrong and a LIAR, you sir are the asshole.

So I was right on Santorum and Bachmann.  Newt wants 12.5% for corporations but 15% for everyone else.  Corporate profits are more than ever and people are more poor than ever. This kind of insane thinking will get Obama reelected.

You sir are an idiot.  I was right about Bachmann and Santorum.  The rest just want more tax breaks for the rich like Bush, which helped cause the crash in 08.  People don’t buy it and it helps Obama’s chances immensely.  I guarantee he will use that tax breaks for the wealthiest have always proven a failure (which is true) and many now poor Americans know it and will back Obama.

Then provide a link for you being right about Santorum, because he has only said to reduce it that low for MANUFACTURING, not all Corporations, so you are LYING.

Bachmann did not make the Proposal, she was asked about Sara Palin’s Proposal, and only said she was OPEN to the idea. So again you are LYING.

WOW…2% as opposed to 1% away from a majority of this country being poor.  Real big difference.  The problem with assholes like you is you use these weak arguments to justify your stupid reasoning.  My focus was politics by the way.

You have still failed to explain how corporate profits are higher than ever but job growth and real-living wages are on a major decline.  

I didn’t say all corporations.  AGAIN you are lying.

Newt and probably others want bigger breaks for the rich which is a proven failure.  It hasn’t worked yet and you are nuts to think it will.  Still haven’t answered my question.  How is that  corporate profits are higher than ever but job growth and real-living wages are on a major decline.

Corporate tax rates apply to all Corporations you DB.

Not sure you understand the math here genius, 2% is twice 1%.

Weak arguments? At least mine are not based on the wrong information. LMAO.

What is a real-living wage? I am doing pretty good on a salary that is lower than the Federal Poverty level, and taking care of 5 people. You do realize what happens every time Congress raises the minimum wage? How about what happens when a state tells Corporations they have to pay more than the states that border them? Ask California what happens, the state that can least afford it. http://blog.american.com/2011/07/companies-are-leaving-california-in-record-numbers-and-it-might-get-worse/

All you can do is bash me on little stuff.  You still didn’t answer my question because you know it isn’t right.  Explain how corporate profits are higher than ever but job growth and real-living wages are on a major decline?… and giving more money to corporations will fix this.  Your a joke. 60% corporate profit increases in 4 years and that is kiddy roller coaster speed to you. And they are not creating jobs with this astronomical increase in profits.

Where is the study that proves it fails? Got a link? Or are you making stuff up again? I do not work for a Corporation so I can not tell you. But I would look at increases in PRODUCTION.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/12/newt-gingrichs-tax-plan-is-a-giveaway-to-americas-global-elite/249902/

Newt wants more tax breaks for the wealthiest.

and yes Bachmann is open to 0% and Santorum wants 0% for manufacturing corporations.  It still doesn’t help the situation if we give more breaks to the wealthiest corporations.  IT DOESN”T CREATE JOBS OR BETTER PAYING JOBS.

Guarantee it will be a majority but doesn’t take away from the point.  WOW you are a real genius arguing about 1% of the population but fail to grasp the whole point moron.  Typical idiot making weak arguments and missing the whole point.  SOON it will be a majority non-genius boy.

All you bring up is little stuff, and are normally wrong.
Corporations are making more with fewer employees today, that means bigger profits, apparently you do not understand how a business works.

So where did the 287,000 jobs in November come from? Aliens?
Corporate Profits do not equate to the growing gap from the rich and the poor. Do you know what a Gini Coefficient is? The US’s has gone from 40.8 in 1997 to 45 in 2007, to 38 in 2011. Wait you mean it was actually HIGHER (BAD) before the Recession? So the gap has actually gotten better (even when comparing it to 1997 it is better), you lying DB.

Yes it means bigger profits for the wealthiest and nothing for the average American.  Common sense there pal.
You are still arguing the gap between the rich and the poor hasn’t grown.  Lay off the grass dude.

That might be the biggest BS I have ever heard.  The gap between the rich and the poor hasn’t grown.  Corporate profits up 59% in 4 years and more people are poor in this country in several decades..I don’t know how you convince yourself to believe that crap.  WOW

You do realize that a MAJORITY is 50%+1? You had 47.6%, WHICH IS NOT A MAJORITY NO MATTER HOW YOU CUT IT. If it becomes 50% in the next year, it will be OBAMA’s fault. Bush has not been at the helm since January 20, 2009. Time for Barry take the blame that comes with the responsibility of the job.

Which part of Bachmann did not propose 0% do you not get, that was Sara Palin, who is not running for President.

Still waiting on the study that proves Corporate tax breaks do not create jobs.

So now you will say that jobs were created under Obama…are you sure that you don’t want to take that back?  Oh, but it was probably corporations that had everything to do with it.  Then why weren’t those jobs there before?  

She said she was open to the idea.  You still miss the point and argue over minor stuff.  Come on man.  How does 59% increase in corporate profits equate to NEARLY a majority if this country now POOR?  And you also admitted that jobs were created under Obama’s presidency.  Oh, but it was probably corporations that had everything to do with it.  Then why weren’t those jobs there before?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/08/how-bush-tax-cuts-economy_n_873245.html#s289287&title=Effect_On_AfterTax

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111013/BUSINESS03/110130377/Corporate-tax-break-didn-t-create-jobs

If you can explain how a 59% increase in corporate profits in 4 years and  how NEARLY a majority if this country is now POOR at the same time then I might agree with you?  There are numerous studies showing that and I have posted several but you obviously failed to look at them.  Yes, corporations make jobs (although small businesses are more significant) but more tax breaks for the wealthy do not create more jobs, or better paying jobs.

So you are smarter than Corrado Gini? I think not. His formula proves it. How about a few articles on the fact that you are a lying DB:
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/margaret-wente/the-poor-are-doing-better-than-you-think/article2266245/?service=mobile

For a Gini Coefficient the higher the number the worse it is. The number has dropped from 2007-2011, I can not help that that is true. See this chart: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fD1NEO4Nnbg/TqX9dXOts3I/AAAAAAAAEgQ/y2_khpZLFMc/s1600/US-Gini-Coefficient-for-All-People-1994-2010.png Its relatively FLAT.

How about this one comparing the US to other countries: http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/525px-gini_since_wwii.gif Notice the tail of the US is fairly FLAT?

Then just open your eyes.  The truth is being found out and posted by many that tax breaks for the wealthiest have DESTROYED the middle class, which makes this country run.  If you fail to see this then we are done here!!!

The articles I posted by others about the truth about Bush tax cuts for the rich but you obviously failed to read them.  Another weak argument when you have no better case to make.

Income inequality: ”The U.S. has the fourth-highest level of income inequality among 34 developed countries, a new international report finds. A widening wage gap is a big reason, but so is the declining role that income taxes and cash benefits play in redistributing income in the U.S. compared to other OECD countries. One reason inequality isn’t worse, the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development report found, is that low-income workers put in 20 percent more hours in 2004 than in 1986″.

Your link is to a NEWS ARTICLE, I asked for a STUDY. Find the study the article is about. Learn to read, I know I write on a higher level than you at used too, I am surprised you got past the first Spot book.

Hey, idiot, LOW-INCOME does not equate too POOR. Being BELOW POVERTY LEVEL MEANS POOR. Since you want to move the goal posts. Only 15.9% are POOR, that is NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A MAJORITY, remember that takes 50%+1?

From the SBA: “While small and large firms provide roughly equivalent shares of jobs, the major part of job generation and destruction takes place in the small firm sector, and small firms provide the greater share of net new jobs. In some ways this role as a major creator and destroyer of jobs is a result of being the major creator and destroyer of businesses in general. The term for this in small business research circles which was popularized by Joseph Schumpeter (1942) is “creative destruction.”” – archive.sba.gov/advo/research/rs359tot.pdf

Keep the lies coming skeirmark.

Corporation are keeping money on hand because they cannot get loans from the bailed out banks, that money ends up on the P&L report as a Profit. That also makes the Company more healthy, meaning they hopefully will not be firing people. Economics is not just a one stat proves everything topic, and you cannot even get your facts right.

Care to offer any proof that Corporate profits have risen by 59% in the last four years, because I think you are lying like the rest of your stats.

HAHAHA, seriously the Huffington Post? That is not only not NEWS, it sure as hell is not a STUDY.

Low income people working more and more is one of the main reasons that the inequality isn’t greater.  Ya, this system is really working out for the average American who make this country run and provide services that everybody relies on.  Maybe the will just strike like in Greece and see how that works out when your trash piles up outside your house.

I have never claimed that jobs were not created under Obama. The scarier stat is the TWICE as many people that stopped looking for jobs and there for fell off the unemployment metric.

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities’ Jared Bernstein notes that “corporate profits as a share of GDP, after tax, were the highest last quarter of any quarter in the history of these data going back to 1947.” Bernstein uses this stat to push back against conservatives who claim that corporate tax breaks will lead to hiring. “Why should we believe that even higher after-tax profits would make a difference?” Bernstein asked. “All these supply-side tax cuts will do is boost their already high bottom lines.” Corporate cash holdings are alreadyup 59 percent since 2008. YES, because of tax cuts for the wealthiest…and now your weak argument is to go back and try and say this is not true.  You are a joke and your arguments are sad man.

According to the 2010 census, “poverty in the U.S. has risen to 40 percent of the American people. [“New data place 48 percent in poorest categories,” page one, Dec. 15.]”
And you argument is name calling….weak… and sad what this country has turned to.  You are a joke and people like you who name call when you have no argument left is ruining this country.  And somehow you will still fight to the death that corporate benefits are more of what we need.WOW

I knew eventually your weakness would result in bashing the site and not the information.  I have posted many other sources but your weakness prevents you from seeing the truth.  That’s a sad life man.

“She said she was open to the idea.” That is proposing it how when she was asked about it in an interview?

Still waiting for you to prove (need something other than you untrustworthy word) that Corporate profits have increased by 59% over the last Four Years.

Hey Dillweed, according to your OWN SOURCE, only 49.1 MILLION are POOR, that is 15.9%, not eve n close to a MAJORITY, it is actually less than 1/4th. What a freaking moron. LOW-INCOME is not the same as POOR.

You do realize there is more than one way to reduce unemployment? When people stop looking for a job they are not longer counted as unemployed. The labor force (those looking) was reduced by 315,000 in November, these people just gave up.

“Government employment continued to trend down in November, with a decline in the U.S. Postal
Service (-5,000). Employment in both state government and local government has been trending down
since the second half of 2008.” -BLS Dec 2, 2011 http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Sure looks like the Government did not have a lot to do with the increase.

Yes small businesses create jobs and not the biggest and wealthiest corporations that have made a 59% increase in profits in 4 years.  THANKS for helping to prove my point. FROM YOUR ARTICLE ” Small firms provide the greater share of net new jobs.”

It is still not a STUDY, why would I take the words of a proven liar, you are a shill for HUFFPO and Media Matters so far to night you have gotten NO INFORMATION right.

More weak arguments..I have never been to Media Matters but keep making weak arguments because you have nothing else to back your pitiful self.  I have never been to HuffPost until recently but the information comes from independent researchers and not the HP.

40% ≠ 50%+1 (Remember that is a MAJORITY) Dumbass.

I am not name calling you, you are earning everyone of them. Next time please provide a link to your tripe quotes as they do not appear in a search engine making them suspect, wait I found it, you quoting a letter to the EDITOR.

Census data: Half of U.S. poor or low income- http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57343397/census-data-half-of-u.s-poor-or-low-income/

AP- Census shows 1 in 2 people are poor or low-income – http://news.yahoo.com/census-shows-1-2-people-poor-low-income-054325860.html

You are smart enough to understand the meaning of the word OR ,I hope?

Your a joke…stats from the OECD, the Census or The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities are all non-valid.  Get a life and post some truth instead of bashing my sources and name calling as a last resort to a failed argument.  The only thing you posted proved my point that small firms create more jobs than large corporations.

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities’ Jared Bernstein notes that “corporate profits as a share of GDP, after tax, were the highest last quarter of any quarter in the history of these data going back to 1947.” Bernstein uses this stat to push back against conservatives who claim that corporate tax breaks will lead to hiring. “Why should we believe that even higher after-tax profits would make a difference?” Bernstein asked. “All these supply-side tax cuts will do is boost their already high bottom lines.” Corporate cash holdings are alreadyup 59 percent since 2008.

Son, I don’t think you noticed, but you are the one walking around in rags. You have not made one Honest True argument at all tonight.

You are still arguing about 1% of the population..you are a joke.  You miss the whole point but focus on minor details.  SAD world we live in.  The point is the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer all over the world.  Not just in this country DA.  Keep making weak arguments.

You have yet to link to one stat from any of them. Their stats are valid, if you use them right. You just have not figured out how to use them.

“corporate profits as a share of GDP, after tax, were the highest last quarter of any quarter in the history of these data going back to 1947.” Nothing in there about 59% PROFITS. Profits are what is left over after all the bills are paid.
HELLO, Cash holding do not equal profits. Cash holdings can increase from interest.

PROVIDE LINKS and people might buy your tripe, well unless it is HUFFPO BS.

It still proves my point DA.  The gap is growing and tax breaks for the rich don’t help.  The only thing you posted is that small businesses create more jobs than big business.

“Corporate cash holdings are alreadyup 59 percent since 2008.”…last sentence and yet you still focus on minor details to make your weak argument work.

Not when you point is that a MAJORITY of the American public is poor. That is a lie, and you keep proving it.

40% ≠ 50%+1 (Remember that is a MAJORITY)

Ya none of the research I have shown can be considered factual.  You have only bashed me as a last resort and have proven nothing but what man others have proven-that you can’t prove tax breaks for the rich DID NOT destroy the middle class.

You are still arguing about 1% of the population..you are a joke.  You miss the whole point but focus on minor details.  SAD world we live in.  The point is the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer all over the world.  Not just in this country.  Keep making weak arguments.  You are a waste of time.  Please call me names as I leave because it proves my point and makes your argument look weaker and weaker.

You have not posted research, you have regurgitated something that is not TRUE. At best you have Plagiarized the work of others, and misused it in the process. I bet your Grad course instructors love you.

I have posted 4 sources of research but you failed to see any…wonder why?

more weak arguments and I graduated Summa Cum Laude with a 3.8 with a degree that required mostly research papers.  I quoted when it was others words and cited the source but more weak arguments bashing me with no truth.  You are pathetic.

I’ll repost this since you are slow to pick up on it…. The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities’ Jared Bernstein notes that “corporate profits as a share of GDP, after tax, were the highest last quarter of any quarter in the history of these data going back to 1947.” Bernstein uses this stat to push back against conservatives who claim that corporate tax breaks will lead to hiring. “Why should we believe that even higher after-tax profits would make a difference?” Bernstein asked. “All these supply-side tax cuts will do is boost their already high bottom lines. Corporate cash holdings are alreadyup 59 percent since 2008.”  Notice it says  The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
Edit
Reply

You are not even trying to convince me that corporate tax breaks for the wealthiest is good for the economy.  You just bash me as a last resort to a weak argument.  Then what are you eve doing here.  Causing more division in this country, which only hurts and doesn’t help.  At least I try to work together for solutions based on common ground.

The gap is 10%+1 not 1% you moron.

40% ≠ 50%+1 (Remember that is a MAJORITY)

To break this down for you since you are slow. 40% of the population being in poverty (poor) does not equal 50%+1 of the population. So there is a gap of 10%+1.

However, lets look at your first source shall we? http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017018125_lowincome15.html

49.1 Million live BELOW the poverty threshold. That is 16% after rounding of the Population that are POOR. 97.3 Million live in the LOW INCOME category, that is 31.7% after rounding. NETHER OF THOSE IS A MAJORITY.

You need to study metrics.

See how your argument is weak, ndn not mine. Mine are at least based in facts.

2008-2011 is THREE YEARS you moron.
CASH HOLDINGS is not the definition of PROFITS.

I cannot make this type of stupidity up people.

Why should I when I can prove that you are WRONG?

HAHAHA, you work here this evening makes me question that.
How many research papers did you have to write for a Underwater basket weaving Degree?

It still proves my point Moron…and that wasn’t from HP.  Something else was. Your arguments get weaker and weaker.  2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011=four years stupid.

All you can do is bash me as a weak argument.  Ya I got a basket weaving degree.  You look weaker and weaker as your argument fails.  Oh wait, you have made none and can only bash people as your argument.  PATHETIC

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Still proves my point..AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.  It only equals 3 years.AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

You just make me laugh now with your pathetic arguments, which only entail bashing me and making up things like my degree is basket weaving. I told you it was PS but you only see what you want you brainwashed troll.

News papers are reliable sources since when? I thought you had a degree that required research papers?

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111013/BUSINESS03/110130377/Corporate-tax-break-didn-t-create-jobs Saw this source and how you MISUSED the information included. I asked for a STUDY, you know an ACADEMIC source, even though it references the study, I wanted the study.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/08/how-bush-tax-cuts-economy_n_873245.html#s289287&title=Effect_On_AfterTax Seriously? You might as well sight Wikipedia. Again you used this to be a STUDY, which it is not, pay attention, that is why you are getting schooled.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/12/newt-gingrichs-tax-plan-is-a-giveaway-to-americas-global-elite/249902/ You used this to try to prove that Newt wanted 0% Corporate tax rates? Shall I quote from it for you? “Gingrich talked about his desire to end the capital gains tax and cut the corporate income tax to 12.5%.” Right in the FIRST paragraph.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017018125_lowincome15.html Do I seriously need to trash your use of the information in this source again? 16% in POVERTY (meaning poor) does not a MAJORITY make.

According to the 2010 census, “poverty in the U.S. has risen to 40 percent of the American people. [“New data place 48 percent in poorest categories,” page one, Dec. 15.]”
And you argument is name calling….weak… and sad what this country has turned to.  You are a joke and people like you who name call when you have no argument left is ruining this country.  And somehow you will still fight to the death that corporate benefits are more of what we need.WOW
Poverty. poor, lower class…whatever you want to call it but your argument is weak because you focus on minor details and not the BIGGER PICTURE.

I posted the article but also the source of research in the quote stupid..AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  Still focusing in minor details.AHAHAHAHAHHAHA

Your argument is getting weaker and weaker.

You are still arguing about 1% of the population and the minor differences behind the meaning of similar words..you are a joke.  You miss the whole point but focus on minor details.  SAD world we live in.  The point is the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer all over the world.  Not just in this country.  Keep making weak arguments.  You are a waste of time.  Please call me names as I leave because it proves my point and makes your argument look weaker and weaker.

Next you will tell me we still have it better than the rest of the world.  When is it ok for the gap between the rich and the poor to stop growing?  When the standard of living is equal to the Chinese?

Profit can be considered to be the difference between the purchase price and the costs of bringing to market whatever it is that is accounted as an enterprise (whether by harvest, extraction, manufacture, or purchase) in terms of the component costs of delivered goods and/or services and any operating or other expenses.- Since your slow I will use Wikipedia so hopefully you will understand. That does not even mention Cash holdings does it? So no it does not prove that CORPORATE PROFITS have increased 59%.

Time to take your meds skeirmark.

Actually I have spent more time bashing you information.

It still proves my point about the inequality growing all over the world.

looks like plagarism to me…no quotations around someone else’s words.  Get a life man.  It still proves my point

2011-2008=3 Don’t care how you do the math. You only get FOUR years from January 1, 2008 to December 31, 2011, today is December 16, 2011.

That was the VERY HP link you used. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/08/how-bush-tax-cuts-economy_n_873245.html#s289287&title=Effect_On_AfterTax On the Bush tax cuts 10 years later. You cannot even remember what articles you link too.

Yeah, okay, you used the wrong data to try to prove your point. That is like trying to use Indigo Dye to bleach your close, it does not work.

According to the English Dictionary, cash holdings means”    n  1  banknotes and coins, esp. in hand or readily available; money or ready money  
2  immediate payment, in full or part, for goods or services (esp. in the phrase cash down)  
3  modifier  of, for, or paid by cash  a cash transaction        vb  
4  tr  to obtain or pay ready money for”…which still proves my point.  TRY AGAIN.

Did I give credit for where it came from? You do realize you do not use quotes for quotes over 40 words right?

Where is PROFIT in that definition? Can you say NOWHERE? You lose try again.

Keep lying to yourself and trying to convince yourself that the middle class isn’t shrinking and that the inequality between the rich and the poor isn’t growing on a global scale.  Keep focusing on minor details while missing the bigger picture.  Keep bashing people as a last resort to a failed weak argument.  You are pathetic and brainwashed trolls like you are a waste of time because you are so far brainwashed to tell the difference from your head and your ass.

Have you seen the Gini Coefficients for Africa? Are there countries that have better Gini Coeffients than the US? I never said there were not.

Love to see you offer proof of the Standard of Living in China being the same as the US.

In a 20-year study of its member countries, the Paris-based Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development said “wealthy households are not only widening the gap with the poor, but in countries such as the U.S., Canada and Germany they are also leaving middle-income earners further behind, with potentially ominous consequences if the global financial crisis sparks a long recession.”

Me lying to myself? Seriously? I am not the one calling 40% a Majority.
I never made any such a claim, there you go lying again.

You have no big picture, your house of cards fell down.

LINK MORON.

still focusing on minor details and not the point.

Ya and you are supposed to indent quotes that are over 40 lines but besides the point.  Just showing you how dumb you are to whine over minor details, while missing the whole point

You are going to use a study from BEFORE the Global Financial Crisis as proof? They looked at 1985-2005.

so now you want links…you cried earlier that l posted only links and not the source of research.  Still besides the point.  It was a multi-year study by the OECD.  I can’t spoon feed you everything baby.

That works in Disqus how? It will not let you indent the quotes in a normal post. Nice try though, you cannot even find the reply button when you need too.

THE POINT IS THE WAY YOU USED THE DATA IS WRONG.

No, I complained because I asked for a STUDY, and you linked to a NEWSPAPER ARTICLE. With a DEGREE, even a Associates you should understand the difference.

The issue is how you use the quotes.

here is where I found it: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27295405/ns/business-world_business/t/study-gap-growing-between-rich-poor/#.Tur5z_Lnv50

Here is the issue using sources like that, a twenty year study is probably 20-25 pages long, and you are using a 17 paragraph news article to “quote” the study, you and I both know that is not exactly what the Study said, and that the study discussed a whole lot more.

Here is the actual study: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/59/35/42506135.pdf

Still proves the point that income equality is growing globally.  Still focusing on minor details.  I have also posted other sources proving that tax breaks for the rich didn’t help this situation.  You make me laugh unfortunately when times are tougher than ever for so many

and the quote said the source of the research stupid.  But still focusing on minor details, while missing the big picture.

Making more shit up again.  I said when will people realize that the growing inequality growing world wide and especially among the global North countries is a huge problem-when the standard of living equals those of the Chinese?  You are a joke

and I only quoted the SUMMARY of the research.  Doesn’t take a genius to find one of many articles that have the summary of the research like you did in no time but you still avoid the point.  The inequality is killing this country but obviously you will never see that so I will stop wasting my time with you.  Arguing with one idiot who will never change his narrow-mind on any issue because you are so brainwashed its pointless.  I actually try to come up with solutions and work with the opposite side like Glenn Beck said we need to do but obviously you like the division and the same thinking that got us into this mess.

Its 48% according to the census but you miss the point.  Nearly a majority, but thanks for helping prove my point.  GET A LIFE and stop whining over minor details.  It makes your arguments look weak.  The point is that the income inequality between the rich and the poor is growing globally, particularly in  so-called industrialized nations…and it is so obvious that a first grader could see it.

weak arguments again…

You do understand what a PRIMARY source is? You cannot quote the study by quoting a SECONDARY SOURCE.

Not making anything up. Here is the CIA comparison of GINI ratings of Countries. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html

Still waiting for you to prove that the Standard of living in China is equal to that in the United States, or any other First World Country.

Here is a Comaprison of cost of living in China and the US.
——————United States—China—Difference
Restaurants
Meal, Inexp. Rest.—$10.96——-$3.00—(-72.66%)
Meal42, Mid. Rest.—$40.50——$17.46—(-56.88%)
Meal at McD’s———$6.02——-$4.18—(-30.63%)
Cappuccino(reg)——-$3.47——-$3.60—(+3.52%)
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=China
Still want to keep that lie going?

Like that written demented laugh was a strong argument?

I know I linked that but for a different argument. If you add all of 2008-2011, it equals four years of corporate money increasing.  You still sadly miss the major point and focus on crap as your weak argument

There is proof and common sense that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer all over the world.  Not just in this country.  Keep making weak arguments.  You are a waste of time.  I asked the question when is the growing income equality enough for some-when the cost of living is the same as the Chinese?  That doesn’t mean it is there yet but the 20 years study shows that it has grown and is still growing.  More weak arguments.

Its 48% according to the census but you miss the point.  Nearly a majority, but thanks for helping prove my point.  GET A LIFE and stop whining over minor details.  It makes your arguments look weak.  The point is that the income inequality between the rich and the poor is growing globally, particularly in  so-called industrialized nations…and it is so obvious that a first grader could see it.

No, it is not. POVERTY is the divider. Those below poverty level are poor, the next level are low income, and so on. The Data used by the Seattle time that you posted was 49.1 Million BELOW POVERTY LEVEL, these people are POOR. 4.91 Million/307 Million= 16% Still with me?
The next level is LOW INCOME, you might notice that the Settle Times used “Poor or low income” in the article, that had 97.3 Million in it, follow along now, 97.3 Million/307 Million=31.6%

16+31.6=47% POOR AND LOW INCOME, not 48 % POOR.

Census shows nearly half of Americans are poor or low-income- http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017018125_lowincome15.html

The fact that Mathematically you are wrong PROVES your argument is weak, and you are getting your behind handed to you.

I am making a weak argument? You are stuck on stupid. You are on a nearly month old thread about the CLIMATE Arguing about the Economy. What is wrong scaredmark are you afraid to go on a live thread and comment?

According to the 2010 census, “poverty in the U.S. has risen to 40 percent of the American people. [“New data place 48 percent in poorest categories,” page one, Dec. 15.]”
Still proves my point.  Seriously how do you fail to see this an alarming red flag?  You have no good arguments and can’t prove that tax breaks for the wealthiest is more of what we need.  This country is screwed if someone like Newt gets in there and gives more money to the rich, further widening the gap between the rich and the poor, sending more Americans into poverty.

Only argument we have been discussing in the month old CLIMATE oriented thread all day Scaredmark, keep up.

A SUMMARY is not the WHOLE Story, come on Scared mark , don’t be afraid to reach out and learn, I could find the study, so can you.

more weak arguments…you argued for hours and now bring this up.AHAHAHA.  You are the biggest joke I have ever met on a discussion panel.  ST stocked me and followed me everywhere.  I posted stuff about the Climate and I tried to work on solutions until he bashed me when he had no more BS arguments to throw at me, just like you are doing now.

Read your quote again the part in the brackets is not he quote but the title of the article they are commenting on. You are quoting a reply to the EDITOR of the paper as accurate? Seriously?

Now prove my math wrong dillweed. You only get 16% Period as LOW INCOME is not the poor.

This is the weakness you resort to after hours of having no arguments but bashing.  Nobody with half a brain can argue that the income inequality in the world is growing and that it isn’t a HUGE Fing problem.  

Actually I brought it up 3 hours ago, keep up Scaredmark.
ST placed you on a shelf, or did he track you like the stupid dog you are? That is STALKING, which is a crime, so why is he not in jail?

I’m not scared of any softies like you.  I work as hard as anybody and I guarantee I work harder than you.  I have worked 60 hours to make a living and 24 hours a week to get me through a more than full time load at school.  I schlep 55 gallon drums of oil all day at works so don’t tell me I’m scared softie.

Its 48% according to the census but you miss the point.  Nearly a majority, but thanks for helping prove my point.  GET A LIFE and stop whining over minor details.  It makes your arguments look weak.  The point is that the income inequality between the rich and the poor is growing globally, particularly in  so-called industrialized nations…and it is so obvious that a first grader could see it.

I brought that up in the second response to you on this thread, keep up Scaredmark.
on CLIMATEGATE 2: The sequel 3 hours ago
“What has any of this to do with the Climate?

Companies are making more with less, imagine that, it leads to larger profits.

So how do you create enough jobs expanding the government to create jobs? You have to have at least 2 1%er private sector jobs to fund one federal government job.

Which GOP candidate proposed 0% Corporate Tax rates?
Ron Paul: 15%
Santorum: 0% on Manufacturing only to bring back those jobs.
Bachmann: Is open to the idea proposed by Sarah Palin, who is not RUNNING.
Perry: 20% Corporate Tax rate.
Gingrich: 12.5% Corporate Tax rate.
Romney: 25% Corporate tax rate.
Huntsman: 25% Corporate Tax rate
Huh…still looking for a Candidate that PROPOSED 0% Corporate tax rate.”

There is proof and common sense that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer all over the world.  Not just in this country.  Keep making weak arguments.  You are a waste of time.  I asked the question when is the growing income equality enough for some-when the cost of living is the same as the Chinese?  That doesn’t mean it is there yet but the 20 years study shows that it has grown and is still growing.  More weak arguments.

HAHAHA, I control hundreds of inmates with the assistance of 59 other officers. Yeah you work harder than me. Okay.

I cannot argue that there is proof and common sense, the issue is you have provided neither.

No it is not read the headline again: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017018125_lowincome15.html That is YOUR source.

You are a lost cause if you still argue that the income inequality in the world hasn’t grown.  It’s a huge problem and the world is starting to recognize it with protests all over the world. More weak arguments from you.

According to the 2010 census, “poverty in the U.S. has risen to 40 percent of the American people. [“New data place 48 percent in poorest categories,” page one, Dec. 15.]“…if this doesn’t prove that the middle class is shrinking in this country then you are really, really dumb.

you can’t argue anything so you whine about minor details but miss the big picture right in front of your face.

This is the weakness you resort to after hours of having no arguments but bashing.  Nobody with half a brain can argue that the income inequality in the world is growing and that it isn’t a HUGE Fing problem.

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-charts-about-inequality-2011-11

Great graphs from Business Insider showing the growing income inequality.

And you still miss the point somehow.  Focus on minor details.  Nearly half of this country live in poverty now.

You are dumb and your arguments get weaker.  You seem a little butt hurt all of the sudden.  You brought it up 3 hours ago but also argued about income inequality too for the same amount of time.  You get dumber by the post.

Softy has to whine and cry now because he has no better argument.  So its okay to stalk you wherever you go on GBTV softy.  Done deal

The headlines say that nearly a majority of this country now live in poverty, which was posted by my pasture who married me and my wife.

The Seattle Times reports that, “About 97.3 million Americans fall into a low-income category, commonly defined as those earning between 100 and 199 percent of the poverty level, based on a new supplemental measure by the Census Bureau that is designed to provide a fuller picture of poverty. Together with the 49.1 million who fall below the poverty line and are counted as poor, they number 146.4 million, or 48 percent of the U.S. population. That’s up by 4 million from 2009, the earliest numbers for the newly developed poverty measure.”

NEARLY HALF OF THIS COUNTRY!

DO YOU KNOW THIS?:http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2011/12/14/tallbloke-towers-raided-many-computers-taken/#comments

WRONG Again. The head line reads: “Census shows nearly half of Americans are poor or low-income”
What part of OR do you not understand, it is only two letters, I thought you had a Degree?

Not whining and crying, I am not the one hiding in a month old thread, you are.

I miss the point because you are a liar and a shill and do not have one.

This still has nothing to do with the CLIMATE. What a moron.

When the big picture is built on a foundation of lies, your house of cards falls moron.

Repeating the same lie over and over does not make it true scaredmark.

Income Inequality exist yes. But that is apart of a Capitalist Nation. The problem comes in when there is Economic Injustice, not just inequality. You will always have a CEO that makes 300 times what his secretary makes. But the problem is when CEO’s, Bankers, and Wall Street Execs purchase influence with politicians that favor legislative proposals that increase their bottom line, at the expense of the domestic economy. Examples of this include:

Bundling Mortgage Derivatives as AAA stocks to get loans off their books, so other people can be hoodwinked into buying them, so they can find out that they are crap and have a massive sell-off of stock, to bankrupt the banks, who then fire their employees, whose CEO’s then beg for a socialist tax agenda (which they purchase) to bail out their mistakes (instead of failing like true capitalist) who take the money and reinvest into Global Initiatives, never rehiring the people they fired which does two things:

Makes people unemployed through no fault of their own.
Makes people unable to get a job, even though they are qualified.
Makes the economy suffer as unemployed people can’t purchase products and services.
Thus puts us into a recession.
Thus adds to our deficit with lower GDP
Thus forces us to cut services and benefits to the unemployed, poor, middleclass, and seniors
Thus creates (you guessed it)…

ECONOMIC INJUSTICE

Which is why we need a President that supports policies that positively and directly affect the poor and middleclass and not the influential Rich and Wealthy.
Makes people

delete ‘Makes people’ at the end.

You are a pawn for the Rich who are conducting classwarfare, corporatism, crony capitalism, and a tax policy based on socialism.

Yes, because the top 1% can collectively purchase billions of dollars of influence, advertising, endless debates that feature one side of an argument, countless lies that are later discovered by Factcheck.com and Politico, yet are still force fed into our media – they will continually vote against their own interest for one reason.

Americans are spoiled, greedy, lazy, brats who think they are God’s gift to the world. So they hire people who feel the same way.

Your still a Moron after debating about other topics for 3 hours and then bringing this up.  Liars like you are destroying the country.

Todd Softy is a pawn who works for the rich.

He can only argue that more tax breaks for the rich is what we need.

I agree but most GOP candidates want greater tax breaks for the wealthiest and it failed under 8 years of Bush.  The recession started in 2008 when Obama started in office.  Bush isn’t to blame for everything but either is Obama.

48% is nearly a majority but still focusing on minor details, while missing the whole point.  I thought you had a degree?

I agree that corporate influence in elections should not be allowed.  Money has the greatest influence in elections and nothing gets done in office because they have to return the favors to who got them elected.

Yes Americans are greedy and spoiled brats.  I for one bust my ass at a dirty job and the pay isn’t that great.

No, because you are mislead by the rich and have the blinders on.

I agree that the problem is injustice and not inequality.  I don’t hate the rich because I know that it leads to innovation and new technology.  But yes, when they get richer at the EXPENSE of the now lower class, which is destroying this country, it makes millions of people upset.  

Thank you for intelligent posts and not name calling like so many others do with no real arguments.

exactly, but what do you think billions of dollars in advertising get you? ToddScheller’s approval.

You work at a dirty job with not great pay. What if you had a government that had zero or low federal debt, wasn’t a war mongerer, has a stable and balanced economy and encouraged ample opportunities in education, small business, and ‘as Rick Santorum would say’ and elevator out of poverty into the upper class.

What would you say if you could have that kind of government?

Exactly. Man Todd hates facts!

Tax Breaks for the wealthy or the middleclass do one thing: move money from one class to another. In Bush’s case it has helped to concentrate wealth to the top 1%. Obama is trying to rebalance that bad equation.

The recession started under Bush, which is why he passed Tarp 1. Remember Bush said if we didn’t bail out the banks you wouldn’t get paid on Friday and your ATM wouldn’t work ‘exact words’. Then he covered his tracks as much as possible and it was only later that we found out how bad things really were.

In comes Obama. Let’s see what he did in office?

Losing 700,000 jobs a much to now gaining 150,000 jobs a month

Stock Market droping to historic lows, near 6000, to now stock market rebounded to 12,000 (DOUBLE)

Millions of Non-stop foreclosures, to refinances, credit unions, homeowner rights, and an end to foreclosures, new home purchasing power aka best time to buy.

Banks, Insurance Companies and Financial Institutions going bankrupt firing thousands, millions to almost no bankruptcy’s and record business profit, business growth, and over two trillion dollars in wealth that corporations are sitting on.

How many more examples of then vs now do you need to claim this President has taken the country out of a ditch, put all new tires on the car, pushed us onto the highway, filled up the car with gas and watched us as we take off at 55 mph. The only problem this President has is that the Job Market did not get in the car. It is the only thing lagging in this economy. And it is not his fault. Corporations do not want to hire who they fired because they do not want to invest in the American Worker because they are too expensive.

Only now they are realizing why they invested in the American workforce to begin with. Becuase it will help the economy when they buy your products and services.

If you want your company to grow, you have to hire people so they have money to spend buying your or other companies products.

The Private industry has to stop this vicious cycle and stop sitting on their hands.

HIRE AMERICANS!!! HIRE AMERICANS!!! HIRE AMERICANS!!! HIRE AMERICANS!!! HIRE AMERICANS!!! HIRE AMERICANS!!! HIRE AMERICANS!!! HIRE AMERICANS!!!

(skiermark we agree on a lot)

Exactly.

Over 50% of taxpayer money pays for these fake wars that we can’t afford.  No WMD’s in Iraq and Iran.  Why is there so much concern in the middle east but we have never focused on other regions of the world where there is a bad ruler?  People are so brainwashed into hating the muslim world and yet most of them have never been to a muslim country.  They have way more class and are way more generous than greedy Americans!

You hit it on the head.  Thank you so much for your  intelligent posts and I will spread the good word to others.  I never realized how bad things were for Obama and how he is actually turning this shit storm into something manageable.  Hope you have a great day CAR.

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Liar and a Hatemonger. 3.8 is not a Summa Cum Laude GPA unless it’s at Hamburger University. You don’t even know how to credit your sources which is First year stuff.

You live a sad life!

I see you still have no life…very sad and unfortunate.

Warmonger who rejoices in deaths because you benefit..SICK

ST is a hatemonger and paid spammer for GBTV…he told me so.

ST is a hatemonger and paid spammer for GBTV who rejoices in war…he told me so.

You seriously need to get a life.  Sad old man

You’re a Hatemonger.

You’re a Hatemonger.

You’re a Hatemonger.

You’re a Hatemonger.

You’re a Hatemonger.

You’re a Hatemonger.

Liar and Hatemonger. I’m waiting for you to start posting your Military record next.

Liar and Hatemonger. I’m waiting for you to start posting your Military record next.

Nope, (CAR) and skidmark.  You two just have reading comprehension problems and can’t read a bloody article correctly.

I think its a real shame that people can instigate our leaders to go to war (Michelle Bachman, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Bill Orielly, Sean Hannity) But if we do go to war – 1, they won’t have to pick up a gun and travel in a humvee being pelted with 100 mm bullets and constantly barraged by IEDs in the middle of the night, and two, they won’t pay for it, the middle class will, and their taxes will be further reduced as the country faces recession.

If you ain’t apart of our armed forced you have no grounds to intimidate us into war. If you’ve never served and are not now serving you have no place forcing the US to go to war with Iran, Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan.

Rich people? We love Rich people: Bill Gates, Oprah, The owners of Google, even Chase Bank I dare say. But you dare put the wants of the rich over the needs of the poor? WTF has this country come to?

To trust $1,000 a year to middle class individual who pays taxes to help improve the economy by spending their own money however they want, and to say we have to give some rich oil tycoon an oil pipeline that he will sell to China?

Fact:
In 2009, the US exported 15,985,000 barrels of crude oil. WHY ARE WE EXPORTING OIL TO OTHER FRIGGIN COUNTRIES?????????????????????????????????????????

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_barrels_of_oil_does_the_US_export#ixzz1gzaqThN9

You broke our agreement about no name calling.  You did it, not me and your solutions were mindless and unworkable. Your “Bottom UP” economy is ignorant.  Poor people don’t create jobs you moron.

You proved that you are just a Hatemonger, nothing more.