Glenn Beck talks with Jonah Goldberg


Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg

GLENN: We go to one of my favorite writers, Jonah Goldberg, on the program. Hey, Jonah, how are you, sir?

GOLDBERG: I'm good. How are you?

GLENN: I'm good, I'm good. You know, Jonah, there are two books that I have found -- sorry I'm losing my voice, but there are two books that I found over the last year that I talked an awful lot about and I don't know if either author really, really understands the impact that their books could have if people really read them. One of them was Amity Shlaes. She wrote a history book on the Great Depression and she herself didn't even see the parallels in it, as I talked to her about it a couple of years ago and I said -- or maybe a year ago and I said, you know, Amity, it's the same stuff. And she didn't even see it until recently. Jonah, I don't know. Do you see in your book, Liberal Fascism, do you see everything starting to come together and repeat itself right now?

GOLDBERG: Oh, I can't imagine why you are saying that. Just because we had a cultish movement, youth movement that elected a supreme leader who was seen as a spiritual savior and redeemer of society who promised to create a civilian national security force, I mean, I have no idea why you would think there would be any relevance for my book today.

GLENN: When you started writing it, Jonah, you didn't know this was -- did you know this was all coming?

GOLDBERG: Well, you know, on one sense, you know, I would wake up over much of the last year saying, does Barack Obama really, is his chief motive here to sell more copies of my book? And so some of it really sort of surprised me. You know, the YouTube videos where they sort of turn him into this Messiah figure and the glassy-eyed children look like they are doing a North Korea pageant, that kind of stuff really surprised me but on the other hand the whole theme of my book is that these themes, these impulses, these motivating passions that we saw in, you know, the first half of the 20th century never went away and that they still exist in deluded form in contemporary American liberalism. And if that's true, and I think it was true, then it should be true of Barack Obama and lo and behold it is. So in one sense it makes sense. It's nice confirmation of my argument because, you know, I ended the book with a discussion essentially about Hillary Clinton and it turns out the person who defeated Hillary Clinton better represented the themes of my book than Hillary Clinton herself.

GLENN: Well, I will tell you this, Jonah. And please, if you have not picked up Liberal Fascism, when did it come out, a year ago?

GOLDBERG: In January.

GLENN: Oh, January. Gosh, time flies. In January I read this book and it opened my eyes to the history of this country and how things have been done in the past and what's coming our way, and I tell you I was up -- you know, I'm rehearsing this Broadway stage show that we're doing, that we're taking around and I'm in these big Broadway rehearsal halls there in Manhattan and let me just say I'm the first conservative commentator probably to ever use these rooms to rehearse in. And I was there night before last and it's about 10:00 at night and I walk out around the corner and here are all these 20-somethings and they are all wearing either Obama T-shirts or, you know, Obama pins or anything else. And when I walk around the corner, everybody just stops and they just look at me, and I look at one of the pins or whatever on the guy's jacket and I said, hey, how are you guys? And they went, fine. And as soon as I turn the corner -- this is how stupid they are, like I couldn't hear them -- they all just started laughing at, did you see that? He looked at it, man, he looked at it; we're showing him.

GOLDBERG: (Laughing).

GLENN: And it was, A, so ridiculous and I wanted to turn around and go, "Are you guys 12?" But it gave me the chills in the way I know how fascism has started in the past and it just feels like brown shirts are on the way. Am I --

GOLDBERG: I want to be careful.

GLENN: I'm not saying that that is but I just feel this anger from the extreme left and they could just so -- you know, it's, you're a Holocaust denier if you don't believe in global warming.

GOLDBERG: Well, you know, and it's funny. I did this thing the other day. You know, during the election they were calling Barack Obama a Messiah, a redeemer, the one and all that stuff and these guys want to ratchet down expectations. So now they are just comparing him to Abraham Lincoln and FDR, you know?



GLENN: Yeah, I know.

GOLDBERG: And, you know, I agree with you entirely that the psychology of -- there are a lot of college campuses talking about this book. The psychology of a lot of these Obama sort of kids, these kids with open toed shoes and closed minds, they have the same thing that youth always have, you know, more passion and idealism and certainty about the rightness of their position than they have wisdom or knowledge or experience. That's why we call them youth. You know, but they are not going to be brown shirts. This country is just too decent a place for them to be brown shirts. I think they could be green shirts, they could be, you know, the sort of environmentalist little, you know, kids who inform on their parents, who -- actually there's a British utility that has just launched a program called Climate Talks where they want kids to inform on their parents and develop a criminal dossier on their parents when their parents don't recycle, don't respect the environment and all that kind of stuff. So it can still be really, really bad but I don't think we're going to see, you know, pure Nazi style brown shirt thuggery but we'll see all sorts of things we don't wanted to see.

GLENN: Jonah, tell me -- thank you for saying this. You give me a little bit of hope, but I have to disagree with you. I see, I just see the beginning, and I don't mean that it's Barack Obama per se. I just see this, the far left, you know, the people who have been in that, you know, Michael Moore/Sean Penn kind of camp for a long time that would like to put other people in an actual camp, you know, you are seeing it now everywhere. They are starting to take on God, they are starting to blame things on conservatives, the hatred of talk radio.

I read an article where it was quoting the violence of talk radio and yet what's his name, William Ayers, can blow up buildings, write a book about it, say that it was okay, say that there are a lot of parallels from the 1960s to today and young people might consider what are they willing to do as long as nobody's harmed and yet we're the violent ones. And, you know, I've been reading the words of -- one of my researchers, I have him doing a lot of research on Adolf Hitler and Mussolini and what are the beginning signs, et cetera, et cetera, and the way that they changed religion, the way that they first reached out and then crushed it one by one, I believe it's starting to happen.

GOLDBERG: Again there's a lot of that stuff in my book and I agree with you with a lot of this. You know, the whole idea of fascism, people say that fascism, you know, and liberalism don't have anything in common because fascism was totalitarian. Well, fascism was totalitarian but it wasn't totalitarian the way the communists were. The communists just flat out took over everything. The way the fascists do it was they basically coopted one institution after another. They said basically if you're willing to promote our values, our ideological agenda, support for our, you know, our ambitions, then you can stay a nominally independent fraternity, you can stay a nominally independent business, on your own university, so long as you agree with us on everything. And when you look at things like environmentalism, there really is that sense like, you know, I think we're having green week again right now.

GLENN: Yeah, we are.

GOLDBERG: On NBC.

GLENN: Yes, we are.

GOLDBERG: Imagine if a network had announced pro life week, you know, the screaming about it. But all the, you know, hoity-toity establishment liberals think it's just a wonderful effort of civic-minded consciousness raising when mainstream network, a huge corporation aligns itself with the agenda of the government and with a political movement and... anyway.

GLENN: So hang on. Can you hang on after the break?

GOLDBERG: Sure.

GLENN: Okay, hang on after the break. I want you to think about this. Did you in all of your research, did you ever see the points -- because this is what I've been looking for -- where the people should have known, could have turned the tide, could have stood up to it. What should they have done and are we approaching that point, you know, what can we do that actually makes a difference in our own personal lives. And we'll get that answer coming up from Jonah Goldberg next.

(OUT 9:45)

GLENN: 888-727-BECK. Jonah Goldberg, the author of Liberal Fascism, a good friend of the program. So Jonah --

GOLDBERG: Terrific dancer.

GLENN: You've never taken me dancing. I don't know that.

GOLDBERG: You?

GLENN: Jonah, the question that I asked you before is in all of your research when you looked at, you know, fascism, Mussolini -- and everybody thinks, oh, people here didn't love Mussolini. Yeah, they did. The liberal establishment here, the New York Times and Time magazine and FDR, everybody loved Mussolini. They thought he was great.

GOLDBERG: That's right. That's right.

GLENN: So when you saw all of this, did you get a chance to look at those movements, at the beginnings of them and was there a point, was there a tipping point to where the people were like, "Oh, crap, now it's too late."

GOLDBERG: Well, yeah. I mean, you know, as you know, there are different fascisms and they have a lot to do with the national character of where they come out and so in Germany it was just much more violent and dangerous and so historically the tipping point is the night of the long knives when Hitler basically kills his rivals in the movement. But again those sorts of tipping points, you know, they are already tipping points after the tipping point in a lot of ways. In Germany it was really, it was World War I that basically put the country on a path towards Naziism and I mean, there are lots of moments where if you were a time traveler and you went back, you would say, oh, if we had only killed Hitler after the Beer Hall Putsch, you would stop things, that kind of factual stuff. But I think in the American context the thing to keep in mind is that you are absolutely right: Among the intellectual classes there was an overwhelming consensus for something like fascism in the United States. You know, differences about doctrine or how it implemented and all the rest. But there was almost a universal yearning to restore Woodrow Wilson's war socialism, to have something like fascism here and the greatest work against it was the deeply embedded cultural love of freedom and democracy in this country, and I think if we're going to fight, whether you are right or I'm right about how bad it can get, the remedies are the same. You know, the remedy is fight tooth and nail on the principles of free speech. Don't make it about defending Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck. You know, don't make it about protecting conservative talk radio. Make it about protecting free speech. On the union stuff with card check, you know, it's not about keeping unions from getting more powerful or rewarding the Democratic party with labor and all that kind of stuff. It is about protecting the secret ballot. These are the institutions that the founding fathers had in mind from the beginning to protect us, and it's an important thing to keep in mind. When Barack Obama talks about unity, you know, how we need to have unity and hope and hopeful unity and hopeful unified hopefulness or whatever the hell he's talking about, unity can be wonderful. Unity can be a fantastic thing. It can be profound of evils. Rape gangs are unified, the mob is unified. In our political culture the hero is the individual who stands up to the mob an says you will not hang this man today. The founding fathers, you read the Federalist Papers, federalist 10, federalist 51, it's all about the importance of preventing unity. That's why we have divided government, three branches of government each vying for control over the other, we have a Bill of Rights, we have separation of powers, you know, we have 50 state governments, each of them divided up and it's all to protect against the dangers of majoritarian faction brimming with a sense of unity that gets to destroy the rights of the minority. And conservatives are uniquely positioned because we actually care about the Constitution in a way that the left doesn't. The left, when they say they care about the Constitution, what they really mean is they care about doing good and so they invoke the Constitution when it helps them and they call for a living or new constitution whenever it gets in their way. We actually care what the actual Constitution says and for conservatives in particular, what we need to simply do is stand by these principles and point out to the opposition that simply because something seems good doesn't mean that we should be violating the Constitution or violating the American tradition of letting liberty and democracy and republic, small R republicanism, that we shouldn't violate these things simply because we've gotten caught up in some fad. Because that's what fascism was and always is. It's a fad. It's one of these things where people get a fire in their mind, they get all excited, they get imbued with that same spirit that when we were teenagers we said, if we all work our hardest, we can make this our best yearbook ever.

GLENN: Jonah Goldberg, name of the book is Liberal Fascism. Always good to talk to you, Jonah. We'll talk again.

GOLDBERG: Thanks, Glenn.

Today is the 75th anniversary of D-Day, the largest amphibious invasion in history.

The Allied invasion force included 5,000 ships and landing craft, 11,000 planes, and almost three million allied soldiers, airmen and sailors. Despite such numbers, the location and timing of the invasion was still an enormous gamble. The Nazis fully expected such an invasion, they just didn't know precisely when or where it would be.

Despite the enormous logistics involved, the gamble worked and by the end of June 6, 1944, 156,000 Allied troops were ashore in Normandy. The human cost was also enormous – over 4,900 American troops died on D-Day. That number doubled over the next month as they fought to establish a foothold in northern France.

There were five beach landing zones on the coast of northwestern France, divided among the Allies. They gave each landing zone a name. Canada was responsible for "Juno." Britain was responsible for "Gold" and "Sword." And the U.S. had "Utah" and "Omaha."

The Nazis were dug in with bunkers, machine guns, artillery, mines, barbed wire, and other obstacles to tangle any attempt to come ashore. Of the five beaches, Omaha was by far the most heavily defended. Over 2,500 U.S. soldiers were killed at Omaha – the beach so famously depicted in the opening battle sequence of the 1998 movie, Saving Private Ryan. The real-life assault on Omaha Beach included 34 men in that first wave of attack who came from the same small town of Bedford, Virginia. The first Americans to die on Omaha Beach were the men from Bedford.

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America has a national D-Day Memorial, but many people don't know about it.

America has a national D-Day Memorial, but many people don't know about it. Maybe that's because it wasn't a government project and it's not in Washington DC. It was initiated and financed by veterans and private citizens. It's tucked away in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains, in the small town of Bedford, Virginia. Why is the memorial for one of the most famous days in modern world history in such a tiny town? Because, as a proportion of its population of just 3,200 at the time, no community in the U.S. sacrificed more men on D-Day than Bedford.

There were 34 men in Company A from Bedford. Of those thirty-four, 23 died in the first wave of attacks. Six weeks after D-Day, the town's young telegraph operator was overwhelmed when news of many of the first deaths clattered across the Western Union line on the same day. Name after name of men and families that she knew well. There were so many at once that she had to enlist the help of customers in the pharmacy's soda shop to help deliver them all.

Among those killed in action were brothers Bedford and Raymond Hoback. Bedford was the rambunctious older brother with a fiancée back home that he couldn't wait to return to. Raymond was the quieter, more disciplined younger brother who could often be found reading his Bible. He fell in love with a British woman during his two years in England training for D-Day. Like in that opening sequence of Saving Private Ryan, Bedford and Raymond barely made it down the ramp of their Higgins Boat in the swarm of bullets and hot steel before they were cut down in the wet sand.

Bedford and Raymond Hoback's mother, Macie, learned of both their deaths from two separate telegrams, the first on a Sunday morning, the second the following day. Their younger sister, Lucille, remembered her mother's devastation, and her father walking out to the barn to cry.

The day after D-Day, the killing field of Omaha Beach was already transforming into the massive supply port that would help fuel the American drive all the way to Berlin over the next year. A soldier from West Virginia was walking along the beach when he saw something jutting out of the sand. He reached down and pulled it out. He was surprised to find it was a Bible. The inside cover was inscribed with: "Raymond S. Hoback, from mother, Christmas, 1938." The soldier wrote a letter and mailed it with the Bible to Raymond's mother. That Bible, which likely tumbled from Raymond's pack when he fell on D-Day, became Macie Hoback's most cherished possession – the only personal belonging of her son that was ever returned.

Of the 23 Bedford men who died on Omaha Beach, eleven were laid to rest in the American cemetery in Normandy.

These men, many of them barely out of their teens, didn't sign up to march to the slaughter of course. They had hopes and dreams just like you and I. Many of them signed up for adventure, or because of peer pressure, and yes, a sense of honor and duty. Many of the Bedford Boys first signed up for the National Guard just to make a few extra bucks per month, get to hang out with their buddies, and enjoy target practice. But someone had to be first at Omaha Beach and that responsibility fell to the men from Bedford.

Over the last several years, the D-Day anniversary gets increasingly sad. Because each year, there are fewer and fewer men alive who were actually in Normandy on June 6, 1944. The last of the surviving Bedford Boys died in 2009. Most of the remaining D-Day veterans who are still with us are too frail to make the pilgrimage to France for the anniversary ceremonies like they used to.

It's difficult to think about losing these World War II veterans, because once they're all gone, we'll lose that tether to a time when the nation figured out how to be a better version of itself.

Not that they were saints and did everything right. They were as human as we are, with all the fallibility that entails. But in some respects, they were better. Because they went, and they toughed it out, and they accomplished an incredibly daunting mission, with sickening hardship, heartbreak, and terror along the way.

So, what does the anniversary of D-Day mean in 2019?

In one sense, this anniversary is a reprimand that we've failed to tell our own story well enough.

In one sense, this anniversary is a reprimand that we've failed to tell our own story well enough. You can't learn about the logistics of the operation and above all, the human cost, and not be humbled. But as a society, we have not emphasized well enough the story of D-Day and all that it represents. How can I say that? Because of an example just last weekend, when common sense got booed by Democratic Socialists at the California Democrats' State Convention. When Democratic presidential candidate John Hickenlooper said during his speech that "socialism is not the answer," the crowd booed loudly. When did telling the truth about socialism become controversial?

Sure, socialists, and communists and other anti-American factions have always been around. America certainly had socialists in 1944. But the current socialists trying to take over the Democratic Party like a virus don't believe in the D-Day sacrifices to preserve America, because they don't believe America is worth preserving. They are agitating to reform America using the authoritarian playbook that has only ended in death and destruction everywhere it is followed.

Ask a Venezuelan citizen, or an Iraqi Christian, or a North Korean peasant why D-Day still matters in 2019.

The further we move away from caring about pivotal events like June 6, 1944, the less chance of survival we have as a nation.

At the same time, the D-Day anniversary is a reminder that we're not done yet. It's an opportunity for us to remember and let that inform how we live.

Near the end of Saving Private Ryan, the fictional Captain Miller lays dying, and he gives one last instruction to Private Ryan, the young man that he and his unit have sacrificed their lives to rescue in Normandy. He says, "Earn it."

In other words, don't waste the sacrifices that were made so that your life could be saved. Live it well. The message to "earn it" extends to the viewer and the nation as well – can we say we're earning the sacrifices that were made by Americans on D-Day? I cringe to think how our few remaining World War II veterans might answer that.

Honor. Duty. Sacrifice. Gratitude. Personal responsibility. These used to mean a lot more.

Honor. Duty. Sacrifice. Gratitude. Personal responsibility. These used to mean a lot more. I don't want to believe it's too late for us to rediscover those traits as a nation. I want to believe we can still earn it.

The challenge to "earn it" is a lot of pressure. Frankly, it's impossible. We can't fully earn the liberty that we inherited. But we can certainly try to earn it. Not trying is arrogant and immoral. And to tout socialism as the catch-all solution is naïve, and insulting to the men like those from Bedford who volunteered to go defend freedom. In truly striving to earn it, we help keep the flame of liberty aglow for future generations. It is necessary, honorable work if freedom is to survive.

The end of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address is remarkably relevant for every anniversary of June 6, 1944. This is what D-Day still means in 2019:

"It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us – that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion – that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain – that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom – and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Letter from Corporal H.W. Crayton to Mr. and Mrs. Hoback – parents of Bedford and Raymond Hoback who were both killed in action on June 6, 1944

Álvaro Serrano/Unsplash

July 9, 1944 Somewhere in France

Dear Mr. & Mrs. Hoback:

I really don't know how to start this letter to you folks, but will attempt to do something in words of writing. I will try to explain in the letter what this is all about.

While walking along the Beach D-day Plus One, I came upon this Bible and as most any person would do I picked it up from the sand to keep it from being destroyed. I knew that most all Bibles have names & addresses within the cover so I made it my business to thumb through the pages until I came upon the name above. Knowing that you no doubt would want the Book returned I am sending it knowing that most Bibles are a book to be cherished. I would have sent it sooner but have been quite busy and thought it best if a short period of time elapsed before returning it.

You have by now received a letter from your son saying he is well. I sincerely hope so.

I imagine what has happened is that your son dropped the Book without any notice. Most everybody who landed on the Beach D-Day lost something. I for one as others did lost most of my personal belongings, so you see how easy it was to have dropped the book and not know about it.

Everything was in such a turmoil that we didn't have a chance until a day or so later to try and locate our belongings.

Since I have arrived here in France I have had occasion to see a little of the country and find it quite like parts of the U.S.A. It is a very beautiful country, more so in peace time. War does change everything as it has this country. One would hardly think there was a war going on today. Everything is peaceful & quiet. The birds have begun their daily practice, all the flowers and trees are in bloom, especially the poppies & tulips which are very beautiful at this time of the year.

Time goes by so quickly as it has today. I must close hoping to hear that you receive the Bible in good shape.

Yours very truly,

Cpl. H.W. Crayton

It's not as easy as it used to be for billion-dollar entertainment empires like The Walt Disney Company. It would be more streamlined for Disney to produce its major motion pictures in its own backyard. After all, abortion in California is readily available, as well as a protected, cherished right. And since abortion access is critical for movie production, right up there with lighting equipment and craft services, you would think California would be the common-sense choice for location shooting. Alas, even billion-dollar studios must pinch pennies these days. So, in recent years, Disney, among other major Hollywood studios, has been farming out production to backwater Southern lands like Georgia, and even Louisiana. Those states offer more generous tax breaks than Disney's native California. As a result, Georgia for example, played host to much of the shooting for the recent worldwide box office smash Avengers: Endgame.

But now it looks like it's Georgia's endgame. The state recently passed what is known as a "heartbeat" bill – a vicious, anti-woman law that would try to make pregnant women allow their babies to be born and actually live. It's a bridge too far for a major studio like Disney, which was largely built on creating family entertainment. How can Disney possibly go about making quality movies, often aimed at children, without access to unfettered abortion? It's unconscionable. Lack of abortion access makes it nearly impossible to shoot movies. So, what's a major studio to do? Disney might have considered migrating its business to Louisiana, but that state too has now signed a heartbeat bill into law. It's utter madness.

These monstrous anti-abortion bills, coupled with having to live under President Trump, has led Disney to seek a new home for its legendary movie magic. Last week, Disney's CEO, Bob Iger, announced that all future Disney movies will now be filmed on location in the Sub-Saharan African nation of Wakanda.

"Disney and Wakanda are a match made in heaven," Iger told reporters. "Wakanda was, until recently, a secret kingdom, much like our own Magic Kingdom. With this new partnership, we'll not only get to continue our legacy of making movies that parents and children everywhere enjoy together, but we'll get to do so in a safe space that reveres abortion as much as we do."

Wakanda is one of only four African countries (out of 55) that allow unrestricted abortion.

As home to the most advanced technology in the world – and with the planet's highest per-capita concentration of wokeness – Wakanda offers women painless, hassle-free abortion on demand. As the Wakandan health ministry website explains, the complete absence of any white-patriarchal-Judeo-Christian influence allows women in Wakanda to have complete control of their own bodies (with the exception of females who are still fetuses). As winner of the U.N.'s 2018 Golden Forceps award (the U.N.'s highest abortion honor) Wakanda continues its glowing record on abortion. That makes it an ideal location for Disney's next round of live-action remakes of its own animated movies in which the company plans to remove all male characters.

Iger says he hopes to convince Wakandan leadership to share their top-secret vibranium-based abortion procedure technology so that American women can enjoy the same convenient, spa-like abortion treatment that Wakandan women have enjoyed for years.

Wakanda is one of only four African countries (out of 55) that allow unrestricted abortion. Disney plans to boycott and/or retaliate against the other 51 African nations, as well as any U.S. states, that restrict abortion. Specific plans are being kept under wraps, but sources say Disney's potential retaliation may include beaming Beverly Hills Chihuahua into the offending territories on a continuous, indefinite loop.

When asked how Wakanda's futuristic capital city and distinctly African landscape would be able to double for American movie locations, Iger said, "I guess America will just have to look more like Wakanda from now on."

One potential wrinkle for the Left-leaning studio is the fact that Wakanda has an impenetrable border wall-shield-thing designed to keep out foreign invaders as well as illegal immigrants. Iger said he understands Wakanda's policy of exclusivity, adding, "After all, not everyone gets into Disneyland. You have to have a ticket to get in. Anyone is welcome, but you have to go through the process of getting a ticket." When one reporter pointed out that Iger's answer sounded like the conservative argument for legal immigration under the rule of law, Iger insisted that the reporter was "a moronic fascist."

What if the unthinkable happens and Florida also enacts its own "heartbeat" law? That would be problematic since Walt Disney World is located in Florida. Iger responded that Disney would "cross that bridge if we get to it" but that the most likely scenario would entail "dismantling Disney World piece-by-piece and relocating it to the actual happiest place on earth – Wakanda." As for whether Disney would ever open character-themed abortion clinics inside its theme parks, Iger remained coy, but said, "Well, it is the place where dreams come true."

With the Wakanda solution, Disney may have found a place where Minnie Mouse can finally follow her heart and have true freedom of choice.

When pressed about the cost of ramping up production in a secretive African kingdom that has no existing moviemaking infrastructure (which could easily end up being much more expensive than simply shooting in California) Iger said, "You can't put a price tag on abortion freedom. Wakanda Forever and Abortion Forever!"

With the Wakanda solution, Disney may have found a place where Minnie Mouse can finally follow her heart and have true freedom of choice. And that will be welcome relief to traditional families all over the world who keep the Walt Disney Company in business.

*Disclaimer: The preceding story is a parody. Bob Iger did not actually say any of the quotes in the story. Neither is Wakanda an actual nation on planet Earth.

"Journeys of Faith with Paula Faris," is a podcast featuring conversations about how faith has guided newsmakers and celebrities through their best and worst times. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a much maligned religion so Glenn joined the podcast and took the time to explain what it means to him and how it changed his life.

From his suicidal days and his battle with drugs and alcohol, it was his wife Tania and his faith that saved him. All his ups and downs have given him the gift of empathy and he says he now understands the "cry for mercy" — something he wishes he'd given out more of over the years.

You can catch the whole podcast on any of the platforms listed below.

- Apple Podcasts
- Google Podcasts
- TuneIn
- Spotify
- Stitcher
- ABC News app

One of these times I'm going to go on vacation, and I'm just not going to come back. I learn so much on a farm.

You want to know how things work, go spend a summer on a farm. You're having problems with your son or daughter, go spend a summer on a farm.

My son changed. Over two weeks.

Getting him out of bed, getting him to do anything, is like insane. He's a 15-year-old kid. Going all through the normal 15-year-old boy stuff. Getting him on the farm, where he was getting up and actually accomplishing stuff, having to build or mend fences, was amazing. And it changed him.

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Our society does not allow our kids to grow up, ever. I am convinced that our 15-year-olds could be fixing all kinds of stuff. Could be actually really making an impact in a positive way in our society. And what's wrong with our society is, we have gotten away from how things actually work. We're living in this theoretical world. When you're out on a farm, there's no theory here. If it rains, the crops will grow. If it rains too much, the crops won't grow.

If there's no sun, they won't grow. If there's too much sun, they'll shrivel up and die. There's no theory. We were out mending fences. Now, when I say the phrase to you, mending fences, what does that mean? When you think of mending fences, you think of, what?

Coming together. Bringing people together. Repairing arguments.

I've never mended a fence before until I started stringing a fence and I was like, "I ain't doing this anymore! Where is it broken? Can't we just tie a piece of barbed wire together?"

Let's stop talking about building a wall. Because that has all kinds of negative imagery. Mending fences is what we need to do.

That's called mending fences.

And why do you mend fences? So your animals don't get out and start to graze on somebody else's land. When your fence goes down, your cow is now on somebody else's land. And your cow is now eating their food.

We look at the phrase, mending fences as saying, hey. You know, we were both wrong. Mending fences has nothing to do with that.

Mending fences means build a wall. My neighbors and I, we're going to get along fine, as long as my cows don't go and steal their food, or their cows don't come over and steal my cow's food.

We're perfectly neighborly with each other, until one of us needs to mend a fence, because, dude, you got to mend that, because your cows keep coming over and eating my food.

You know what we need to do with Mexico? Mend fences.

Now, that's a phrase. You hear build a wall. That's horrible.

No, no, no. We need to mend fences.

In a farming community, that means putting up an electric fence. That means putting up barbed wire.

So the cows — because the cows will — they'll stick their head through barbed wire. And they'll eat the grass close to the road. Or eat the grass close to the other side of the fence. And they'll get their heads in between those fences. And they can't get out sometimes. Because the grass is always greener on the other side. You look at these damn cows and say turn around, cow — there's plenty of stuff over here.

No. They want the grass on the other side of the fence.

So you mend it.

And if it's really bad, you do what we do. We had to put an electric fence up. Now, imagine putting an electric fence up. That seems pretty radical and expensive.

Does it really work? Does it shock them? What does that feel like to a cow?

The cows hit it once, and then they don't hit it again. They can actually hear the buzz of the electric fence. There's a warning. Don't do it. Don't do it. They hear the current and they hit it once and they're like, "I'm not going to do that again."

So you mend fences, which means, keep your stuff on your side. I like you. We're good neighbors. You keep your stuff on your side and I'll keep my stuff on my side and we'll get together at the town hall and we'll see each other at the grocery store. Because we're good neighbors. But what stops us from fighting is knowing that there is a fence there.

This is my stuff. That's your stuff. But we can still trade and we'll help each other. But let's stop talking about building a wall. Because that has all kinds of negative imagery. Mending fences is what we need to do.

You can have a tough fence. It could be a giant wall. It could be an electric fence. But you need one. And that's how you come together.

The side that's having the problem, mends the fence.