Glenn: From Radio City in Midtown Manhattan, the third most listened to show in all of America, Hello, you sick, twisted freak. Welcome to the program. My name is Glenn Beck. I'm glad you're here. Rudy Giuliani is on the horn with me. Hello. Mayor Giuliani, how are you, sir?
Mayor Giuliani: Good to talk to you, Glenn.
Glenn: Good to talk to you. Our country has changed so fundamentally since you were running for President that I'm beginning to wonder are who the heck we even are.
Mayor Giuliani: Well, I think what you see now, in the last couple of days, you know, since President Obama has been in office, is a fundamental change. This bill that passed the house is a fundamental change in our economic organization, really, the way in which we organize our economy and I think it's much more fundamental a change than people realize.
Glenn: Explain that.
Mayor Giuliani: Well, what you essentially have done is this is kind of the democratic wish list of the last 10 or 12 years. These are all the things they were hoping to do, some of which even President Clinton restrained and then President Bush and a Republican Congress restrained. The massive increase in Government control of health care is probably the single biggest dangerous change, just thinking you're going to take 2, 3 million kids that have private insurance and put them on Government insurance. Cobra is going to be extended up to possibly 10 years and people are going to be covered by the Government. The Government is going to have control of these new health care records.
Glenn: So, Rudy, is it that people don't, in American, don't understand? Do they not care? Have we --
Mayor Giuliani: I think this was very craftily done. Everyone is calling this is a stimulus package. This is not a stimulus package. This is a Great Society II package. That's what it really is.
Mayor Giuliani: Lyndon Johnson would have called it Great Society II. This is expanding Medicaid. It's expanding Government control of health care records. It's expanding the number of people that are on Government health care that are getting private insurance. It's a tremendous amount of money going into the teachers unions, a tremendous amount of money going into the health care industry. It's spending on keeping us, you know, greener or getting us greener. These are all things that arguably are good or bad social results. They have very little to do with stimulating an economy. I ran a city that was in roughly the same shape in 1994 when I took it over as it is today. In fact, in 1994, unemployment was higher than it is today by a lot and our budget deficit as a percentage of the budget was even worse and I got New York City out of trouble. I didn't invent the method, but it's the only way to get a government our trouble. Here's how I did it, again, I lowered spending by an enormous amount and I lowered taxes that by lowering them would put more money in the economy. This is going in exactly the wrong direction.
Glenn: Here is what Bloomberg is doing, the financial genius. He is cutting spending by a billion dollars he is announcing today, but then he's also raising sales taxes and everything else because he's saying, which, you know, how do you get people to understand this? By raising taxes, you hurt business even more.
Mayor Giuliani: Well, now, as I was just reading the package myself. I agree with half of it. I think the cuts in spending are very good and it follows cuts he's already made in spending. So, that is helpful. At least that is part of it, which there is none of that going on at the Federal level. I think it's a mistake to raise the sales tax for a number of reasons, one of which is it's probably one of the most destructive anti-progressive taxes in the sense that, you know, we all have to buy clothes, rich or poor, and the reality is he's hurting -- this increase in taxes, in sales taxes, will hurt jobs. It means stores sell less. When they sell less, they hire less people or they lay them off.
Glenn: Can I --
Mayor Giuliani: We used to do a sales tax holiday, Glenn. We used to do it every fall. I used to call it, you know, drop until you drop week, no sales tax for a week. You know what the revenues in the stores would go up? 30, 40 percent.
Glenn: You know, here's the thing that nobody seems to be talking about, that I know you get and, that is, I'm a small businessman and there are a lot of entrepreneurs that are, you know, listening to us right now and they're all in the same boat, whether your business is struggling or your business is doing well. What people don't -- that I don't hear anybody saying is my business currently is doing well. I don't know what it's going to be doing in six months from now, but mainly I don't know that because I don't know if the Government is going to try to put me out of business, if they're going to raise taxes on me, if they're going to change the structure of our country. I don't know what they're going to do. So, by them constantly fiddling with it and not saying, "We won't cross these lines, we won't do these things," I'm not willing to spend any money. I'm not willing to expand or to take any chances because the enemy that I'm worried about is Government.
Mayor Giuliani: Well, that's absolutely correct. Nothing worse for an economy or for business decisions than uncertainty. People that have businesses that are good business people can deal with anything as long as they have some degree of certainty about what's going to happen. In other words, I thought this for a long time. I think this whole battle over whether you continue or discontinue the Bush tax cuts is seriously hurting our economy. I know it is because I spend a fair amount of time in foreign countries talking to people who can invest in the United States, invest elsewhere.
Mayor Giuliani: When you don't know what the tax rate is going to be two years from now, you kind of stay away from a country like that, putting money into a country. You put money into a country where tax rates are low and are going to remain that way. We've got this crazy situation in 2010, the estate tax is going to go down to zero and in 2011, it's going to go up to 55 percent again.
Glenn: I'm telling you, people will unplug their loved ones.
Mayor Giuliani: But this is the kind of absurdity we have. So, while we have these absurdities in the economy, instead of addressing those first and coming up with a true stimulus package, what we've done is, I describe it as and eventually we're going to have to do the stimulus package. It's like you want to buy a house. The house cost $400,000, but before the house, you have to tremendous amount of money buy three others you don't need. We're eventually going to have to buy the house. We're eventually going to have to get the toxic assets off the books of the banks and we probably should have done that in the first place and Paulson wanted to do it. Then he backed away from it because Gordon Brown went ahead and just put money right into the banks and that money he is eventually going to have to be spent and I think Republicans, in many ways, of saying, look, if you want to do social engineering, let's have that debate independent of stimulus.
Glenn: Exactly right. Exactly right. So, let me go on a couple of other things. I don't know how much -- Stu, do we have another five or six minutes?
Mayor Giuliani: I wanted to talk a bit about Norm Coleman's race, also.
Glenn: That's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about and let's go there. We have Judd Gregg from New Hampshire. He is being nominated now for the commerce secretary. If they pull him out, that may be a loss for the Republicans. We have Norm Coleman, you know, trying to keep Al Franken out. I mean, I can't believe Al Franken is a senator or, you know, could be a senator. We have a situation to where there is no stopping any of this social engineering, any of this socialized framework from being put in. I mean, if those two things happen, we're toast.
Mayor Giuliani: Well, we're going to be in tough shape until we get to the next election. I believe that despite the big honeymoon that President Obama has, if these approaches of his don't show some material benefits to our economy in the next six, seven months, you're going to have a very different midterm election.
Glenn: Well, how is he -- you still -- I really, truly believe that there are enough people in this country that think that this stimulus package includes the banks, that they're like, oh, well, that will fix that bank thing, too. It won't.
Mayor Giuliani: It may make it worse.
Glenn: Right. And he's going to have to come now and say, we're going to have to spend 1, 2, 3, $4 trillion on fixing these banks or explaining the whole bad bank and then, on top of that, you know and I know this summer, as things continue to unravel, he's going to have to come back with yet another real stimulus package and I think that's when people are just -- it's a ticking time bomb. People are just going to say, You're out of your mind.
Mayor Giuliani: And we need -- we need a Republican representation to stand up the way they did in the House and I hope they do in the Senate, as well, and this race in Minnesota, really, this is the democratic party reversing everything it argued for in the Gore case, you know, count every vote, count every vote. Franken, when he was behind, wanted to count every vote. Now they've counted some of the votes but not all of them. So, he has this artificial lead and basically this court case is about whether to count the last 12,000 ballots that people have said are perfectly valid, people have testified, I signed my name. One guy who was over 75, 80 years and doesn't write as well now says, "It's my signature. I just don't sign my name as effective as I used and my signature there goes back many years." So, if these votes get counted, I mean, I -- nobody knows for sure, but these -- they have successfully kept out the votes coming from what would be more the pro Republican districts than the pro democratic districts. If they count these 12,000 votes, I think Norm Coleman gets a really good chance of winning.
Glenn: Let me ask you this: I don't know if you saw the article in the paper today and it's starting up now, the U.S. Airways, they crashed into the Hudson and now they -- they all survive as heroes. The pilots are going to be, you know, there on the field of the Super Bowl for the coin toss, etc., etc., but now we're hearing things like this: Quote, this is from -- two comments from survivors: I think if you survive a plane crash being upgraded permanently is a good gesture.
Mayor Giuliani: (Laugher.) I didn't see that, but --
Glenn: Here's another one. The airline is so focused on self-congratulations, they want to exonerate themselves as much as they can. They're happy they had such amazing results and they applaud themselves and then give us a small token. You've got to be kidding me!
Mayor Giuliani: The better concentration after this, I mean, I think the pilot deserves -- the pilot and the crew deserve anything that you want to do to, you know, appropriately designate them heroes. I think they did an unbelievable job. I know that airport really well and I know how difficult what he did is, but the reality is let's solve the problem, all those birds flying around. I'm going to take off around 2:00, 3:00 this afternoon from La Guardia Airport. I'm going to be checking out for birds hanging around.
Glenn: I mean, but what I'm asking you is, first of all, I think you should go after the -- I think you should go after the Audubon Society.
Mayor Giuliani: Well, really, they found that there were taxi drivers that were feeding the birds, believe it or not, and so now the city is going to during this to stop the taxi drivers from feeding all those birds around Kennedy Airport and La Guardia Airport.
Glenn: Here's the thing that is driving me crazy and I don't know what -- I don't know what it is. Who have we become? I want to hold out the hope that, you know, America, they're good and decent people, they get it, they understand that we are unpegging from our Constitution, we're going down a road here that is nothing but self-destruction if we don't stop it and then I see a story of U.S. Airways and I think, this is a message to us that we're -- that we can survive anything and then -- and then I see these people.
Mayor Giuliani: The reality is I think right now America is in a state of tremendous confusion and fear about what is going to happen with the economy and I think you're absolutely right when you mentioned earlier there are plenty of people that made the same amount of money this year as last year. There are plenty of people who made more this year than last year who feel like they don't have a lot of money and they can't spend it. Even those bonuses that are being argued about, you know, the $19 billion bonuses on Wall Street, the city budget is affected by that tremendously and if that money was paid out, a lot of it wasn't spent because people are sitting there thinking, I've got to hold on to my money, and the reality is we have to restore a sense of normalcy to our economy and we're not going to do it until we straighten out the credit problem and that's still waiting. So, we now went through, you know, three or four weeks, we're going to spend 800, $900 billion and that's sort of the ticket of admission to getting into trying to really solve the problem.
Glenn: Final topic here for you. You know, the judge -- Obama said yesterday that, you know, he is going to delay yet another trial for -- this one is one of the guys for the U.S.S. Cole and the judge came out yesterday afternoon and said, I ain't delaying it. I'm moving forward.
Mayor Giuliani: Well, I mean, that is a correct decision, I think, by the judge in understanding one of the basic pillars of our Constitution, which is separation of powers. I mean, the President of the United States cannot tell judges how to apply the law. Right now there's a legal procedure. It's didn't designated. It's on schedule. There are all kind of implications about speedy trial and everything else. The judge us absolutely right to tell the President, you don't get to make that decision. If you want to change the law, change the law, but until you do that, you don't run the courts.
Glenn: What do you think is going to happen? How that is going to play out?
Mayor Giuliani: Well, you know, I think this whole idea of just precipitously saying you're going to close down Guantanamo when you won't know what you're going to do with the people or the idea of holding up these trials, one of the arguments has been that these people have been sitting there too long without a trial. Now you're ready to have a trial and the government's going to hold it up? It doesn't make any sense. Also, we've got to be really worried about who is really at Guantanamo. We already have a number of cases of people released from Guantanamo, including the most recent one, in which they engage in terrorist activities again.
Glenn: I've got news for you. I mean, now we've already -- we've taught them exactly what they need to do. All they understood to do is get out of Guantanamo, come to the United States, grab a loaf of bread, and sit by our airports.
Mayor Giuliani: Or go to Yemen and get better training.
Glenn: Unbelievable. Rudy Giuliani, good to talk to you, sir.
Mayor Giuliani: Good luck to you and good luck with the television show. It's terrific.
Glenn: Thank you very much.