Congressman Ron Paul
GLENN: From Radio City in Midtown Manhattan, third most listened to show in all of America. Hello, you sick twisted freak. Welcome to the program. My name is Glenn Beck. Mr. Ron Paul, Congressman Ron Paul is with us now. Congressman, are you now or have you ever been a member of the libertarian party?
RON PAUL: Boy, that's a tricky question. If I answer honestly, could I be in trouble? That's the big question.
GLENN: Well, I wanted to know if you answer yes to that and you happen to have a Ron Paul bumper sticker on your car, you're definitely a militia member.
RON PAUL: Uh-oh. Well, since this is a public record, I have to tell you the truth. Yes, I have been a member.
GLENN: Are you -- do you have a Ron Paul bumper sticker on your car?
RON PAUL: Yes, I do.
GLENN: Oh, boy.
RON PAUL: That too --
GLENN: You just stay on the phone. We're tracing the call right now. You just stay on the phone.
RON PAUL: Yeah, but you may be traced as well for bringing up the subject.
GLENN: I know. Oh, I know they are tracing my calls.
RON PAUL: You better be careful, too.
GLENN: Listen, Congressman, there was this story that came out last week about Missouri where they did this study on who's a militia member, and there were some pretty remarkable things in there. For instance, if you have a Ron Paul bumper sticker on your car, that's a sign. If you talk about the Constitution, if you're against the United Nations, if you've ever passed along cartoons against the FBI, ATF or IRS, that's another sign. I mean, it's -- this is insane.
RON PAUL: You know, they are really taking on something. I don't know how they can handle this. Hopefully this will awaken the American people because I think I saw a poll the other day where 25% of the American people now think the UN is not a good idea and we should be out of it. What are they going to do? Round us all up or what?
GLENN: Well, I will tell you, I will tell you this. The latest on the United Nations is that today they said that the G20 should be disbanded and they should have a security council for the economies and 1% of everyone's stimulus package needs to go to the UN. That's crazy!
RON PAUL: That's the -- you know you are not supposed to waste a crisis, as Emanuel, as Rahm Emanuel says. So this crisis is going to be used to the people who do believe in world government. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think they are pretty honest.
GLENN: Oh, yeah.
RON PAUL: I think they are open about it. They believe in it every bit as much as we believe in national sovereignty and personal liberty. They think you should have world government. This crisis now is not only a danger to us for the economic reasons but it's a danger to our liberties and the whole concept of what the United States stands for.
GLENN: Congressman, what do you think -- well, first of all, let's go right to the Geithner bailout now of the banks, of buying the toxic assets for $1 trillion. This was the plan that was the original TARP plan that they then came out and said it would not work, it would have been a disaster and now they are saying they have to do it and it's going to be the savior. It's a trillion dollars.
RON PAUL: Yeah, you know, and it's just redundancy like you said. That was the original plan they tried and tried. But the Fed unfortunately already has the authority to do and they announced last week that they were going to buy up these toxic assets.
GLENN: Hang on.
RON PAUL: So how many times can they buy these?
GLENN: Hold it. Hold it just a second. I'm sorry to interrupt. I swear to you this is just, this is according to the treasury, they have just announced that toxic assets are no longer toxic assets. They are now to be called legacy assets.
RON PAUL: Lying through their teeth.
GLENN: I just wanted to correct that -- we've got to get the right phrases here. So you were talking about the toxic, the legacy assets.
RON PAUL: What it is is they're worthless. You know, they claim that there's no market for them. Well, there is no market because they're worthless. They are finding victims and we're the victims. The taxpayers are the victims. They can't sell them because they have no value and they should allow them to be eliminated. They have to be liquidated. But this whole idea that they have to be bought up is preposterous. That's why they wouldn't -- this thing could be practically over if they just allow these companies to go into bankruptcy. The bankruptcy court would have handled this, we wouldn't have had to appropriate any money, we wouldn't have had to mess with regulating salaries. That whole thing could have been stopped just by following the law which should have been bankruptcy court.
GLENN: Okay. So now we have a trillion dollars that they are proposing. The Fed and the treasury are coming out and saying it's a $2 trillion problem but we will have -- we'll take a trillion of it. However, they were the same people that were telling us just six months ago that this is probably a $500 billion problem and they were going to overwhelm it with $700 billion in bailout money. Now the experts are saying, no, no, the treasury's wrong; this is probably a $4 trillion problem. Is there a point, congressman, where you see your fellow congressmen saying, "Okay, enough is enough?
RON PAUL: No, they are like an addict. They are addicted. They don't know what else to do. They don't understand free market economics. They are in deep now. So they are not going to back off. And I've been saying this for a little while and that is because we're locked into this mentality, I think they are going to destroy the dollar before -- it's going to stop with the destruction of the dollar. We won't be able to afford it. There's no reason in the world to trust the value of the dollar long term and yet right now the world is still gravitating to the dollar. People are buying treasury bills, interest rates are very low. But that's going to end. Otherwise this would be a free gift to us and we could bail ourselves out forever and we wouldn't have to work and all we have to do is print money and buy stuff from overseas. So it would have to end. There's no way in the world that you can create these trillions of dollars. Already the Fed has committed to more than $5 trillion of either direct loans or guarantees. So the commitment is overwhelming. All the pressure is on the dollar and soon -- we saw a little bit of what can happen last Wednesday when the Fed announced their trillion dollar thing. You know, the dollar within 24 hours went down 4 1/2%. So if it can do that in one hour, what could happen when people panic out of the dollar and the Chinese dump their dollars. Very, very dangerous situation.
GLENN: Congressman Ron Paul, last week, I think it was on Wednesday at 3:00 in the afternoon, we started to monetize our own debt. Every economic expert that I have talked to that I believe has credibility because they weren't saying, "Oh, there's no problem, there's no problem," they haven't changed their tune. All the economic experts that were talking to me now that actually have a record of being right said this is end game here, this is the beginning of the end where you buy the debt from yourself for another trillion dollars. It's the death spiral. Do you agree or disagree with that?
RON PAUL: Absolutely. And although they have monetized debt and they bought them in the market, they've never done this before, although they've had the authority to do it. They buy it directly from the treasury. So congress in a way, they are not going to put their foot down because that bails them out. Congress can appropriate endlessly and the people in charge right now happen to believe that's a proper way of solving these problems. So --
GLENN: Where is this trillion? They printed a trillion dollars yesterday -- or last week. Where is this trillion dollars coming from with Timothy Geithner?
RON PAUL: Well, they are going to start off with getting I think $100 billion from the TARP funds. And even though last week they talked about that $1 trillion, that hasn't transpired yet. That is just in the, you know, in the pipeline. But it will come about. But they've been doing this all along. So if they appropriate money, it ends up the Fed has to monetize it eventually anyway. And then if the Fed buys the debt directly and buys these mortgage debts directly, there's really no real reason for the treasury to be doing this because the Fed can do it. They could have done it all along. They are either awfully confused or they are trying to hide something, which maybe it's both.
GLENN: Congressman, the concept came to me today as I was talking about Barack Obama and his, I think it's $634 billion, you know, in a down payment for healthcare that they are just pulling off to the side. First question, is there an escrow account where we should be watching where they are pulling this $634 billion off to the side? Where is that lockbox as Al Gore used to talk about?
RON PAUL: That's not there. As all this promise that you can deficit finance and print the money.
RON PAUL: And it's endless. It never stops. It's absolutely bizarre. It's just a wonder that the markets are doing as well as they are doing. The markets are doing lousy. The dollar is doing better than it deserves but that, of course, is going to quit.
GLENN: The other question that I have is at what point -- I mean, you know, I don't hear anyone talk about what it looks like. I mean, what we have basically is a giant balloon payment. At some point we're going to have to pay for all of this stuff and I don't hear anybody talking about it. At what point is it in our best interests to let the dollar collapse because we can't -- our children will be paying 80% taxes all across the board because we can't pay for that?
RON PAUL: Well, at a certain point you can't pay it and the debt won't be paid. It's how it's liquidated. When you or I, if we go bankrupt, we can liquidate debt by just not paying, going to bankruptcy court. Governments don't do that. What they do is they want inflation. They are working real hard to inflate because if they can double the money supply, your dollar lose half its value, your real debt is only one half. So they pay it off, you know, with junk money. So that is what they are hoping for because they know they can't pay the debt, the American people can't pay the debt, but the debt has to be liquidated. Governments liquidate it by inflation. So that's why you can be assured that the inflation is coming, and Bernanke has never hidden from that. He has always said he knows how to inflate like nobody else has, and he is working diligently at this, which means that he is doing an immoral, unconstitutional, bizarre act of destroying the value of the money. People should go to jail for this. If you do it or I do it, that's counterfeiting. But it's the same thing and they are doing it deliberately and that's how they will take care of the debt.
GLENN: The idea that these militias are creeping up, I mean, on this program I've asked you before, I think when you were running for president, I said to you, I talked to some of the people that are Ron Paul supporters or claim to be that are 9/11 Truthers, et cetera, et cetera. I think there are dangerous people on the left and the right. Some of them vote for Ron Paul, some of them voted for Barack Obama, some of them voted for John McCain, some of them voted for people I've never even heard of. Some of them don't vote at all, but I fear that there is -- some of us have at least been consistent in saying that we're on a road to fascism. We said it under George W. Bush and we're saying it now under Barack Obama. It's the same problem, just a different party and a different face. How worried are you that the Constitution is viewed as a code word, that we are entering a time when the conditions are growing more in the favor of being able to stomp down any kind of opposition by the parties in Washington?
RON PAUL: Well, I think the worse the economy gets, the more polarized the people become because wealth dissipates and people get poor and they get angry and they misdirect their anger and therefore, you know, there's always a threat of violence and, of course, that is what I've worked so hard to try to avoid because I consider it an intellectual fight. I believe that if people know why it's in their best interest to defend the constitution of personal liberty, we can achieve victory on this. But if there's a lot of confusion, then people say these people are scoundrels, and they are, and they feel desperate. They don't know anything else to do. So they want to resort to violence. And in that is where the danger comes from. Inflation wipes out the middle class, leads to political chaos and then the destruction of the political system. And we've about done, have done in the economic system. So now we're seeing the early and rising tide of political chaos and that to me is the dangerous phase. So I don't know how to reverse this other than promoting a better idea to beat their ideas and their ideas as internationalism, globalism, printing press money, Federal Reserve, don't give a hoot about the Constitution and just once again believe in individual freedom and have confidence that freedom works and that's how you get prosperity. And you don't have to be a bleeding heart thinking that the only way you can take care of people because quite frankly that backfires and creates more poor people, not more wealthy people.
GLENN: Do you -- do members of congress and the Senate, are you moved by the amount of mail? When they were sending tea bags to people, did that make a difference? Does it make a difference to have the phone calls come in? Does it make a difference if they would march on Washington and let people see their faces? What makes a difference to these people at this point?
RON PAUL: On occasion it does. I think this whole thing that congress felt compelled to do something about those salaries was a reflection that if the people rise up, the congress will react. But unfortunately, you know, that was so superficial and misdirected and missed the whole point and they should have never had the money in the first place. So that was not the answer. But the answer is, yes, if enough people rise up and tell their members, "Look, if you don't do it, we're going to throw you out" and then end up throwing them out, members, most people in Washington are very politically oriented and if it's a true resistance by the people, it does some good. Otherwise I wouldn't be involved in this at all. But the problem is it takes a long time for the transition and it gets too risky and right now we're facing this crisis of who knows how it's going to turn out. But we should know soon because we live in very, very dangerous times and events are moving rather rapidly.
GLENN: Do you see more people coming to your side in Washington? Do you see more people that are starting to get it or is it still just as mindless as it always has been?
RON PAUL: I think it's better. It's certainly better outside of Washington. I hope when I go to St. Louis this weekend, it will be better out -- that's where I meet people that agree with me. But in the past what I've been introduced have been bills that have been looked at and not only to be nice but I've been always marginalized. But I have this bill in this just to open the books of the Fed, just to audit the Fed which is H.R. 1207. I have over 40 sponsors on that. That's pretty good for me and I think the momentum's going to pick up on that because everybody now in Washington has heard once again from the American people, you guys better get your house in order, you at least ought to have transparency. And when people hear that the Fed does not even -- is not even required to answer our questions, people become outraged. So I think that is the first step to reforming our monetary system.
GLENN: Ron Paul, congressman from Texas, thank you so much, sir.
RON PAUL: Good, nice to be with you.
GLENN: You bet, bye-bye. Congressman -- is he still there? Oh, shoot. Are you there, Congressman?
RON PAUL: I am here.
GLENN: I just wanted to know, you don't have one of those snake flags, do you?
RON PAUL: I do. Should I put it away?
GLENN: I would -- well, no. Then you are hiding it. Then we know you've got something to hide.
RON PAUL: Boy, I'm trapped.
GLENN: We'll send Homeland Security over to your place.
RON PAUL: When are you going to hang it up behind you when you're on TV?
GLENN: I warn you -- you missed, I think it was Thursday, the episode, I wore a T-shirt with it on.
RON PAUL: You are getting brave here.
GLENN: You got that right. Thanks a lot. You bet. Bye-bye. When am I going to wear it on TV? I'm only doing it, though, because that's exactly what they want me to do. I'm just trying to throw everybody off the track (whispering). I'm really part of it.