FNC's Judge Napolitano | Buy Book
VOICE: The Glenn Beck program presents more truth behind America's march to socialism.
GLENN: You know, I have to tell you, the answer is to get away from the two-party system because they are both progressives. Just progressive and progressive light. But they're both progressives and they have been taking us down this road for over 100 years. And everyone says there's no libertarians out there. There are libertarians out there, and you watch them. You watch them sometimes all the time. Judge Andrew Napolitano is one of them. Judge Napolitano from Fox, welcome to the program, sir, how are you?
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: It's always a pleasure, Glenn. How are you, my friend?
GLENN: Good. Listen, I want to talk to you about your book because it's a fantastic book and I think it ties into today. But before you do that, can we just talk quickly about this solution that you and I have talked about on a constitutional amendment, or a threat of a constitutional amendment?
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Yeah, we can. And I heard your intro and I, of course, fully endorse it that the two‑party system is one version of big government versus another version of big government, but I've got to tell you when I made that statement on your live "In the presence of an audience" show on Fox News Friday, I was deluged with e‑mails and they were about 90‑10, 90% to 10% in favor of the concept that the only way out of this is a new political structure or a constitutional amendment that threatens congress' power which means its pocketbook or a third party. It's unbelievable, Glenn, the number of people. You and I see them and hear them on our radio shows and over where we work together at Fox who are sick and tired of the two‑party system which is tweedled as Barry Goldwater said back in 1964, Tweedledee and Tweedledum.
GLENN: You are exactly right. So the constitutional amendment, and even if this doesn't work, because this is going to sound crazy to some people. I don't think it is. I think even if it doesn't go through, it is the push for it if there is a serious movement in the public to push for this, it threatens their very existence and they will have to move. So explain it.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: If 2/3 of the states ask the congress to call a Constitutional Convention to consider the adoption of this amendment which I'll describe in a moment, as it gets closer and closer to the 2/3 necessary and congress would be required to call the convention, you'll see some reaction on the part of congress to attempt to placate the states that want to call this. Now, the constitutional amendment is a simple one. It simply abolishes the 16th amendment and states affirmatively that congress shall have no power to tax the personal incomes of individual persons. If that were enacted, it would starve the federal government back into the original footprint that the founders intended for it. But as it gets closer to enactment, congress will have to do something for fear that it might be enacted.
GLENN: Right. Because I think this sounds ‑‑ I mean, it sounds ridiculous. You get 2/3 of the states. Because the income tax, you can't, in Massachusetts you can't get them to say no to it and so it sounds ridiculous, but again it's a serious movement would force them to move. It doesn't even have to pass.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Let me tell you about another movement that's out there, Glenn, and this is something that was debated by the founders before and since the Civil War and it's called nullification. It's where a state legislature says the federal law that says ABC ‑‑ and I'll give you a few examples ‑‑ shall not be recognized in this state. Now, so far the nullification is in minor things. Arizona and Indiana have nullified the federal law on Daylight Savings Time. California, and New Jersey is about to do this, have nullified medical law on medical marijuana. Montana, this afternoon the governor of sign into law a law nullifying the federal regulation of firearms that are built, sold and used exclusively within the State of Montana.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: This is another movement that is gaining steam, Glenn.
GLENN: This is Montana? I know that was happening in Texas. That just happened in Montana?
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: He is signing the law at 12:15 local time this afternoon in Montana and he's going to make a statement from an e‑mail I received from one of our Fox producers that if the Feds don't like this, Montana will consider secession. Now, that's another entirely different issue which we can talk about the lawfulness and constitutionality of. But Montana is really taking the lead on nullification.
GLENN: This guy is a huge Democrat.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: He's a libertarian Democrat if you can believe that such an animal exists.
GLENN: Wow, okay. Judge, will you do me a favor, could we talk later today? If you wouldn't mind, could you write something for our newsletter that I could put out that would show the steps that people would need to take? I mean ‑‑
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Of course.
GLENN: Okay. Because we have -- our newsletter I think is about 100,000 people away from being the size of the New York Times daily circulation.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Oh, God bless you, Glenn.
GLENN: So it's huge.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: I would be thrilled even to be a footnote in a newsletter that you wrote and that is of that magnitude.
GLENN: We'll get it to you here in the next couple of days. So your book is Dred Scott's Revenge. They say, Dred Scott, why do I have to read history, please, I can't take it. This is so relevant and it really is, to me at least it shows the beginnings of the unfraying of what our founders did because it's the first movement against nature's law or nature's god. Would you agree that?
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: I agree with that. Let me tell you history. Dred Scott was born a slave, was brought by his masters into a free part of the United States where slavery was illegal, Illinois, and sued there to remain free. The case was then transferred to Missouri because he and his masters moved to Missouri. His masters wanted to free him. The State of Missouri opposed this. The case goes all the way up. It takes eight years to get to the Supreme Court. Now, the Supreme Court could have ruled "Once a slave, always a slave." Or it could have ruled "Once set free, always set free." Instead it came down with the most hellish ruling in our history and it said black people are not persons and therefore Mr. Scott does not have the right to file a lawsuit." Now think about that. That authorized the legislatures in the North where blacks were free to enslave them because they were not persons. You may say, well, that was 1857; it's not going to happen again. Well, it happened in 1973 when the Supreme Court said babies in the womb are not persons, therefore they don't have any legal rights and therefore no one can sue in their behalf. So the lesson of this book is government must be watched and scrutinized. It must recognize our natural rights because it thinks it has the power to declare helpless or unpopular minorities to be nonpersons and thus strip them of all of their constitutionally guaranteed rights.
GLENN: Have you done much reading of Theodore Roosevelt's speeches or Woodrow Wilson's speeches and the early progressive movement?
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: I have done a lot. As you may know, I'm a graduate of Princeton where Woodrow Wilson is considered a saint.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: And Woodrow Wilson -- put aside the fact that he was a virulent racist who separated the races in the federal government and in the military.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Put aside the fact that Theodore Roosevelt was nominally a Republican. These guys didn't even believe in the ownership of private property.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: These guys are the original big government guys that brought us FDR and brought us LBJ and brought us what we have today.
GLENN: And brought us our school system, our history books that said the founders were white racists, that they were, you know, big money class, brought all of the things, all of the disease that we have now. But one of the things that they also really truly believed was that nature's god is irrelevant, it doesn't ‑‑ God doesn't give man rights; the government gives man rights.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Theodore Roosevelt once said nobody owns private property; the government owns it and lets them use it. Now, if he honestly believed that, then you are right, he believes ‑‑ believed.
GLENN: He did.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: That our rights come from the government and not from our humanity, which is a gift from God.
GLENN: And I've got to tell you, Judge, that is the -- to me this is the key, and your book starts the very beginning. The first time where man's rights don't come from God. It really is amazing to me how many people missed, including me, John McCain said everything he needed to say when he said Theodore Roosevelt is my hero. If you don't know who Theodore Roosevelt was, you're off -- I mean, you've missed the whole thing that's been happening to us. Judge, can you hang on?
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: A lot our friends, especially people you and I work with who are so upset at what Barack Obama is doing, they look at the two of us like we have four heads between the two of us.
GLENN: I know.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: When we say things would be the same under John McCain. Anybody that had Theodore Roosevelt as their hero would be just as bad as what we're going through now.
GLENN: Yeah, maybe worse. Okay, Judge, hang on just a second. Can you hang on?
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Absolutely.
GLENN: Because I want to talk to you a little bit about the Supreme Court. The name of the book is Dred Scott's Revenge, a Legal History of Race and Freedom in America. It is a must‑read from Judge Andrew Napolitano.
VOICE: Just in case you are not getting enough socialism from Washington, try Glenn's new audio book, the March to Socialism, available in bookstores everywhere May 12th. Free copies not available as part of the stimulus package.
GLENN: Let me go back down to Judge Napolitano from Fox and he's the author of a great new book that is available everywhere, Dred Scott's Revenge: Legal History of Race and Freedom in America. And by the way, he's agreed to write something on a couple of ways, nullification and a constitutional amendment to stop the income tax, to reverse the 16th amendment on income tax to starve the federal government to death. Just that alone would scare Washington to maybe start listening. I mean, even if it doesn't get passed, a serious movement in that direction. So he will lay it all out for you and, you know, then you take it from there.
Judge, I want to talk to you about something that I think is absolutely frightening. A potential Supreme Court justice nominee, Sonia Sotomayor.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Right.
GLENN: Said that policy -- she's on tape saying policy is made by the court of appeals.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: You know, I know her. She went to college with me and Sam Alito, by the way, who is now on the court. She is an "Up from the bootstraps," born in South Bronx, scholarship to Princeton, scholarship to Harvard, but she's exactly in the mold that Barack Obama wants and said he would put on the court: Someone who believes the court, nonelected life‑tenured judges is superior to those we send to congress and that the Court will make public policy. The Court's job is to interpret the Constitution, to interpret the laws, to make certain that the government doesn't violate our natural rights and to make certain the laws are consistent with the Constitution. It must accept the public policy that the congress enacts. It doesn't change it and it doesn't create it, but her mindset, Glenn, perhaps in a moment where she was a bit unaware and she sort of caught herself in between, in the midst of it saying I know I shouldn't be saying this because it's on tape. Her mindset is the same as many federal judges: We will set the public policy of this country; our will will be effectuated and no one will even know where it came from because we work in secret. We wear black robes; we don't have to stand for elections. I'm saying this as a former judge, Glenn.
GLENN: Judge, how close, how close are we to losing -- you know, I was sitting at this Time 100 thing last night and I'm sitting with all these big wigs and I said, you know, so what's Washington like nowadays? And they were all like, oh, it's Camelot and everything else. I said, you know, we can agree or disagree on individual policies, but has anybody at this table actually thought what does America look like at the end of five years when all of these things combined are in full force. And the table just got quiet. Nobody had. How close are you, do you think we are to losing the essence of America and not being able to turn the corner?
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: I'm terrified, Glenn, and I watch this stuff for a living as you know, that the congress will soon authorize the treasury secretary to interfere with private contracts and that, of course, will destroy commercial activity as we know it if the Feds can come in and say you charged too much, you didn't charge enough, you paid this person too much. I'm terrified that the Feds will give us a system of medical ‑‑ of healthcare like in London or England or like in Canada where you have to wait 16 months for elective surgery and a bureaucrat decides when you get to the head of the line. And I'm terrified that this stuff might not get to a Supreme Court that might interfere with it until it's already the law of the land and has already ruined our expectations, our enjoyment of private property and the natural rights that we've come to understand and expect would be protected.
GLENN: Judge, thank you so much. We'll talk to you. I'll give you information today and on the newsletter and if you can do that this week, that would be fantastic.
JUDGE NAPOLITANO: Thanks for having me, Glenn.
GLENN: The name of the book is Dred Scott's Revenge: A Legal History of Race and Freedom in America. It's a must‑read, available at bookstores everywhere.