GLENN: And David Horowitz is an expert on really what's going on because he lived the radical revolutionary life in the 1960s. David, welcome to the program.
HOROWITZ: Thank you, Glenn.
GLENN: So David, how do you defeat ‑‑ because President Obama yesterday said about race and about the media that the media is just, there are some elements ‑‑ in fact, do you have the audio, Pat, can you play that? There were some elements in the media ‑‑ don't worry about it if you don't have it.
PAT: I think I got it here.
GLENN: There are some elements in the media that are just, they are just mean‑spirited and they will just go on to rudeness. Listen to this.
PRESIDENT OBAMA: People's motives. And I have to ‑‑ one last point I've got to make, Bob, and that is I do think part of what's different today is that the 24‑hour news cycle and cable television and blogs and all this, they focus on the most extreme elements on both sides. They can't get enough of conflict. It's catnip to the media right now. And so the easiest way to get 15 minutes of fame is to be rude to somebody.
GLENN: I don't know who he's talking about. I'm wondering if he's talking about, you know ‑‑ I wonder if he's talking about Media Matters when he includes blogs.
David, what's happening, what is the tactic that we're now going to see employed here?
HOROWITZ: Well, first let me say from the top of your intro there and as I told you when I saw you in the studio in New York, they are going to try to destroy you. The left is very focused on the fact that they're in a war and that you have to take out the generals, the leaders, the people who are effective. And they've done that to every ‑‑ they even did it to George Bush. If they can do it to George Bush, if they can portray him as a liar and a murderer and a religious nut, they can do it to anyone. And that is what they're going to do. I actually told this to Tom DeLay the minute he became majority leader, I said now you're visible; now they are going to destroy you. And he didn't take it seriously.
GLENN: Does anybody ‑‑ oh, I take it seriously. Does anybody stand a chance against it, David?
HOROWITZ: Oh, absolutely. Because ‑‑ I mean, because you already, I mean, you said it in the polls. You've tapped into the people out there. There's a great America out there that it basically is, you know, we live in a relatively happy country. There are so many opportunities for people, they don't pay attention. They don't ‑‑ you know, it's a lot of noise, the political conversation. And now they are just beginning to wake up, that Washington may be a very serious threat to them. So I think there's a tremendous possibility to win this. And you ask me, the three things I would say is, one, don't be apologetic. Don't apologize, don't ‑‑ when they attack you, don't think that you did something to merit the attack. You know, is it something I said? It's a famous Richard Pryor cover where the Ku Klux Klan is about to lynch him and he says, is it something I said. That's what conservatives usually do. They are very decent people. So when somebody gets upset, they want to figure out what they might have done to upset them. Don't do that. No apologies. The second is go right back in their face. You know, who lied in congress? Barack Obama called Sarah Palin a liar. He didn't mention her by name but basically that's what he said. People were talking about the death panels are... and he used the word "Liars." Then he lied again about the illegal aliens and the healthcare bill. And what Joe Wilson did was he put this on the front pages by just going back in his face. Don't back down.
GLENN: Well, wait a minute. Hang on just a second. I agree with Joe Wilson's saying, you know, it's not the right place and it was ‑‑ it may have been wrong. We're not England. So I mean, I think sometimes your emotions get the best of you and you don't have a problem apologizing for that. But not the sentiment of it if it is accurate. If you were wrong, then you were wrong.
HOROWITZ: The apology, he did make a first apology but he didn't make the second one.
HOROWITZ: The fact is that decorum was broken. When a president of the United States addressing two houses of congress calls a former vice presidential candidate and former Republican governor a liar ‑‑ and also she's a woman and we still, you know, we haven't really abandoned thankfully a certain consideration for women. When the president of the United States does that, he deserves to be hit back. Now, you can argue ‑‑ I don't even want to argue. I just want to show what happened there. What happened there is that people ‑‑ normally conservatives would just cut Joe Wilson loose, and there were something like six Republicans who voted to censure him. But normally he would have just been thrown to the wolves. And the same thing would have happened to you. And I don't know if you've seen it, but the frontpagemag.com which is my website.
GLENN: I did see it.
HOROWITZ: There was a battle with David Frum over you that there are these genteel conservatives, the chin‑scratchers who think, well, if Glenn Beck hadn't said this on some show, you know, as these people may never have been on his show and understand the kind of pressure somebody is under and particularly when your emotions begin to grab you, and they use that to hang you. So don't be apologetic. Don't back down.
GLENN: Look, and here's the thing. Here's the thing, David. I want to talk to you about what the average person is going to face because I at least have had some inkling of what was coming my way for the last year or so. I knew what direction we were headed in and so I've had some ‑‑ you know, when I go out ‑‑ and I don't trust anybody anymore and that's one thing. I don't trust anybody in the media or in politics anymore. And that's okay. I don't come to the table saying that you're a dirt bag. I just come and say, I'm not going to give you the benefit of the doubt; I'll just be neutral and expect, you know, expect the worst and hope for the best. But the average person walking out to a tea party, they sit here and they walk out and then they are attacked and they are like, wait a minute, what? I mean, if you're somebody who you just care about your children in the future and then all of a sudden you hate the president or you're a racist or you're that, I mean, there are those people that exist and there were those people that existed during George Bush that were doing the same stuff. But how do they deal with it, David?
HOROWITZ: Well, I think they deal with it the same way. I mean, they have got to stop ‑‑ conservatives are way too decent. Don't give up your whole sense of decency. But understand that these people hate you because of who you are. And there's nothing that you say or do that's really going to affect that. You are in their way. They want to steamroll a country into socialism is basically what they want to do and you're in their way. And they will call ‑‑ you know, you brought up the borders. No country in the world can survive if it doesn't have borders. And we don't have borders right now. There's no country in the world but America where, you know, people think open borders is a good idea. We're the only one. And yet to stand up for that very basic principle, you get called a racist. I was going to say the third thing you need which you are so brilliant of this is, you know, a sense of humor. I think knowing that time was going to be a hit job and it was, of course, done by a Republican, sticking out your tongue on the cover is perfect.
GLENN: Can I tell you something, David?
GLENN: I didn't okay that shot.
HOROWITZ: You didn't?
GLENN: That shot was taken by a photographer that tried to destroy me for a photo shoot with GQ. I think we filed against GQ for releasing that photo. I didn't agree to any photo shoot at all. I had no idea that cover ‑‑ that's the picture that Time selected from a photo shoot from GQ that they weren't supposed to have.
HOROWITZ: Well, I think it backfired on them. I have to tell ‑‑ you know, what they could have done was to, you know, everybody gets in a mode when they are really angry, you know, you get that snapshot.
HOROWITZ: If that had been on the cover with madman, that would have been bad.
GLENN: Yeah. I think they thought ‑‑ maybe. I don't know. Maybe they were trying just to be fair. I don't know their motivation on that one but, you know, somebody said, you're sticking your tongue out at the American people. I'm like, no, I'm not.
HOROWITZ: Yeah. I mean, the hate, you can ‑‑ you know, just flip on that Keith Olbermann and you can see the hate that they have. There's no conservative ‑‑ well, there are a couple of conservatives like that.
GLENN: David, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this because you're ‑‑ you know, frontpagemag.com, Is Glenn Beck Good for Conservatives. I am shocked at the number ‑‑ no, I'm not. I guess they are just losing power and that's what happens. All of these elitist conservatives that are the guardians of the conservative movement, they are the same people that didn't like Sarah Palin because we have gone to big pointy head thinktanks for years and years. And these people, these conservatives that are cannibalizing their own is insanity, insanity.
HOROWITZ: I've seen it over and over again. I would say the bloodiest campaign I ever witnessed was the campaign that Jim Miller waged against Ollie North. I have never seen Republicans go after Democrats the way they went after Ollie North. And it's the same thing with Palin. They're embarrassed to be part of, you know, the people. If you didn't go to Yale, which I think is where David went, you know, you are non‑you basically. And I've experienced this throughout my conservative career. I mean, I have a lot of support from conservatives. But, for example, I've conducted this campaign on campuses, very liberal campaigns. There should be two sides to a controversial issue. And I have an academic Bill of Rights. National Review, Weekly Standard have never ‑‑ I've been doing this for six years. You know, I've changed ‑‑ anyway, it's the number one issue in universities. All the left, the New York Times has written about, everybody's written about it, not a word in National Review, not a word in the Weekly Standard. And I could go on and on.
GLENN: I think, David ‑‑
HOROWITZ: They are very uncomfortable with conflict.
GLENN: David, I've only got about a minute and a half here.
GLENN: Is there anything to ‑‑ I just feel a shift in the paradigm, that the parties and the media that don't understand that the people have the power, that the people are the ones that control the things here in America, they are going to find themselves with all their little pointy heads and all of their little degrees from Yale and Harvard and Columbia out kicking rocks in the parking lot going what the hell happened to us. The power, it is ‑‑ we're too interconnected with each other now.
HOROWITZ: That's exactly right. And it's the great thing about the Internet and that is there's instant, there's just a whole world of information out there that wasn't there when it was just Cronkite.
HOROWITZ: And that's the ‑‑ and, of course, cable with what Roger Ailes has done with Fox. You know, Glenn, MS ‑‑ I was talking with Alan Colmes the other day and I said, Alan, look, if MSNBC had done what Fox did and put conservatives on, they would have become competitive.
HOROWITZ: But they can't do it. Because inside every one of these so‑called liberals, there's a totalitarian screaming to get out. And that's because they're on a mission from God, from their god, which is history, to change the world.
HOROWITZ: And to make it a, you know, a paradise.
GLENN: David Horowitz, frontpagemag.com and it's always great to have you on, a guy who actually knows what's going on and sees it. Thanks, David, we'll talk again.