Alan Gura Interview



Arguing with Idiots: How to Stop Small Minds and Big Government


by Glenn Beck


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GLENN: Well, the second chapter of Arguing With Idiots is the Second Amendment, and a guy who was instrumental, I mean, came to the table with more facts ask the best arguments you could possibly imagine is Alan Gura. Now, gee, why would he have great arguments? Oh, I don't know. He's the one who won the Heller case, the D.C. gun ban case in front of the Supreme Court, and we just got news -- I don't even know. Has this, has this even really been announced yet? Alan Gura is on the phone with us now. Hi, Alan.

GURA: Hi, Glenn, how are you? I'm very happy to tell everyone that just the morning the Supreme Court has decided to hear my case out of the City of Chicago. They are going to hear whether or not the Second Amendment protects people not just from the federal government but also from their state and local politicians as well. And we're very confident that when everything is said and done, one year from now Chicago will no longer have a handgun ban.

GLENN: Now, you went after this. Also the NRA. Did they accept the NRA's case?

GURA: No, did not appear so.

GLENN: What is the difference between the two cases?

GURA: Well, there are some differences in the way that we argue the case. Our case, first of all, taxed some additional laws that their case did not reach. Both of us went after the handgun ban. Of course, Chicago has a handgun ban which is identical to Washington D.C.'s; that is, they require all guns to be registered and then you can't register a handgun, therefore handguns are banned. We've also gone after the idea that Chicago imposes an annual tax on your right to keep guns, if you have a rifle or a shotgun, you don't just pay 20 bucks to register; you've got to pay every year. With he don't think that's appropriate. The other --

GLENN: And if you miss --

GURA: Sorry?

GLENN: If you miss that, it's against the law, too.

GURA: Right.

GLENN: If you miss it, there are some huge penalties to it.

GURA: If you miss it, the gun becomes unregisterable which means not only can you not have it, nobody in the city can have it.

GLENN: Right.

GURA: It has to disappear and leave city limits if you miss by even one day, which is completely ridiculous. You can get supposedly an identical gun, just a different one, the one that you had registered you have to throw out.

GLENN: Okay. So I know that the NRA didn't want -- I mean, they were afraid of the D.C. handgun bill. They were like, you know, I don't -- we don't know how they're going to come out. Why, why were both of you, you and the NRA, as soon as you won the Heller case in Washington, why did you both run to file this case? What is it that gives you confidence in this?

GURA: Well, first of all, it's inevitable. I mean, you can't really avoid these questions. And this is why we filed the D.C. case, too. We realized that the way things were developing in the law that the Court would answer the Second Amendment question very soon, and we wanted the question answered in a good case on behalf of law-abiding, decent people instead of the usual way that Second Amendment cases had gone up through the court in cases like U.S. versus crackhead, U.S. versus bank robber. Those are not really the greatest cases to take when trying to vindicate individual rights. The reason we went immediately after Chicago is Chicago has an identical handgun ban. It's a crazy set of gun laws. And it's fairly obvious that now that we know the Second Amendment applies to the federal government, the next big question is, okay, does it apply to state and local governments. Because most gun laws live at the state and local level. And let's face it, Glenn: If congress can't take a gun away and President Obama can't take a gun away but the mayor takes your gun away, you still don't have a gun.

GLENN: That is the way it is in New York City. So if you win this in New York -- if you win this in Chicago, does New York City then, does this ban fall in New York City?

GURA: Yes, New York is definitely going to be sued. There's no question of that. They are going to have problems enforcing some of these laws. My understanding, I mean, obviously it's a wonderful book that you've put together, and I was very sad to see that the problems that people have in New York to try to register a handgun. It takes 400 to 500 --

GLENN: Did you see the chart?

GURA: Yes, it's crazy.

GLENN: I'm going to show it on TV tonight because you are going to be on tonight, aren't you?

GURA: Yes, I will.

GLENN: The chart, let me look this up. The chart is insane on what you -- on Page 48, thank you, Stu, on what you have to do to be able to get a gun in New York City. It's crazy.

GURA: It doesn't make any sense.

GLENN: So is -- if you win in Chicago, then do we have to go through yet another case in New York and in California, or will one of these things collapse it in all of the states and cities?

GURA: Well, it might take a case, but I don't think the New York case would necessarily go to the Supreme Court because the New York law, if the Second Amendment applies to New York City, then they cannot have the kind of law they have to do. I mean, there's no way that you can charge someone $1,000 and make them wait a year in order to exercise a basic constitutional right. There's no way. This regulation is not going to be upheld under any level of review. New York can regulate guns. They can require background checks, things like that. But the kind of things that they require, the bureaucratic process, it won't survive.

GLENN: Pat is just looking at the bureaucratic process.

PAT: So it's just, two, three, four... it's only about a 33-step process?

GLENN: Yeah.

PAT: It's not that bad. It's --

GLENN: We have an attorney on with us tonight.

PAT: It's that easy.

GLENN: We have a guy who does this, helps people with the process. And they will say, have you ever applied for a license before, a state license before. Well, you're registering for a handgun. If you say no, well, then you have to start the entire process all over because they will say, "You don't have a driver's license?"

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: I mean, it is gotcha every step of the way.

PAT: And it is 23 steps total waste of time, six to twelve months. Money spent, $500 to $1,000.

GLENN: It's crazy.

PAT: I mean, you basically can't get one.

GLENN: So Alan, what happens if you lose this case?

GURA: Well, if we lose this case, you know, then people don't have Second Amendment rights really outside of Washington, D.C.

GLENN: So wait, wait. That means only in Washington could you have a gun because the local governments could regulate.

GURA: That's right. If we lose this case, that is, if the court says that the Second Amendment did not apply to the states, then, you know, New York and Chicago can go ahead and take your guns away. I don't think that's going to happen, though. I mean, I do believe, I'm quite confident that given what the Supreme Court has said about the Second Amendment and Heller, it's all but -- it's highly likely that they're going to find that this is the kind of right that states and local governments have to obey.

PAT: The amazing thing, though, the amazing thing, though, Alan, is that since Chicago has had this gun ban, the unbelievably, unbelievably low homicide rate in Chicago. It's almost -- I mean, nobody ever gets killed there.

GLENN: It's nonexistent.

PAT: It almost doesn't exist.

GLENN: Well, unless they are using guns that have been thrown away.

PAT: Right.

GLENN: What -- Alan, help me out with this argument: All of the amendments to the Constitution, all the -- the Bill of Rights, that was a promise to the states: Look, as a federal government we will never do these things. For instance, freedom of religion. They had freedom of religion. The federal government said we wouldn't do it. But I believe it was Massachusetts or Connecticut had a state religion. So why can't the states go their own way? Why do they have to be slaves to the federal rules?

GURA: Well, because we fought the Civil War and afterwards we discovered that just because people are American citizens and the federal government respects their life doesn't mean that they won't be tortured, killed, subject to all kinds of terroristic violence. I mean, the experience and the reconstruction South was enough to convince Americans at the time to ratify the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, and the Fourteenth Amendment is every bit as good as every other part of the Constitution and the says that states cannot make or enforce any law that abridges upon the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States. And what that was understood to mean at the time and plainly means was that states had to respect at a minimum the Bill of Rights as well as other sort of natural rights that people have always understood since the beginning of time that we all possess. The Supreme Court has not always been great about that, but over the years using at least the due process clause, the Supreme Court has found in case after case that just about every single right that you have in the Bill of Rights has to be respected by the state and local government as well. I mean, it wouldn't do you any good to exercise your First Amendment right to sell your book if Massachusetts, New York and Chicago banned your book.

GLENN: Well, that's --

GURA: You know, that's where it's most needed.

GLENN: That could be coming. Alan, I appreciate it. We'll talk to you tonight.

GURA: Fantastic. Looking forward to it.

GLENN: You bet. That's Alan Gura. The breaking news now is the Supreme Court has decided to hear the Chicago gun ban case, and Alan will be arguing that.

As the Senate prepares for former President Trump's second impeachment trial, many are asking whether it's constitutional to try a president after leaving office. Alan Dershowitz, lawyer and host of the of "The Dershow," joined Glenn Beck on the radio program to talk about the legal battles Trump still faces.

Dershowitz said he believes the Senate doesn't have the authority to convict Trump, now that he's a private citizen again, and thus can't use impeachment to bar him from running for office again.

"The Constitution says the purpose of impeachment is to remove somebody. He [Trump] is out of office. There's nothing left to do.
It doesn't say you can impeach him to disqualify him for the future. It says, if you remove him you can then add disqualification, but you can't just impeach somebody to disqualify them," Dershowitz said.

"The Senate can't try ordinary citizens. So once you're an ordinary citizen, you get tried only in the courts, not in the Senate. So it's clearly unconstitutional," he added.

Dershowitz, who served on Trump's legal team during the first impeachment trial, also discussed whether he thinks Trump is legally (or even just ethically) responsible for the Capitol riot earlier this month, and whether those engaging in violence could be considered "domestic terrorists."

Watch the video below to catch more of the conversation:

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A new, shocking CBS News poll shows that the majority of Americans believe they're facing a new enemy: other Americans.

More than two-thirds of poll respondents said they believe democracy in the U.S. is "threatened," and 54% said "other people in America" are the "biggest threat to the American way of life," rather than economic factors, viruses, natural disasters, or foreign actors.

Will it be possible to unite our nation with statistics like that? On "The Glenn Beck Radio Program," Glenn and Stu discussed the poll numbers and what they mean for our future.

Watch the video clip below:

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Countless leaders on the left are now arguing that removing President Donald Trump from office won't be enough — they're now calling for the president's "cult-like" supporters to be "deprogrammed." And it's not just fringe politicians.

During an appearance on "Real Time with Bill Maher" last week, former NBC anchor Katie Couric said, "The question is, how are we going to really almost deprogram these people who have signed up for the cult of Trump."

Former Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton and Democratic Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi questioned whether the nation needs "a 9/11-type commission" to determine whether President Trump was colluding with Russian President Vladimir Putin "the day that the insurgents invaded our Capitol." Clinton also made sure to include her favorite "deplorables" in her unsubstantiated conspiracy theory:

"But we now know that not just [Trump] but his enablers, his accomplices, his cult members, have the same disregard for democracy," Clinton said to Pelosi.

Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson and New York Times Magazine's Nikole Hannah-Jones agreed that there is a need for "millions of Americans, almost all white, almost all Republicans" to be deprogrammed and punished, during an MSNBC interview last week.

Now, a story from the Washington Post is also preaching that narrative and even added that we need more restrictions for conservatives on social media and in the broadcast industry.

"So now we have to be deprogrammed? We've heard this over and over and over and over again, for months," said Glenn Beck on the radio program Tuesday. He read through the shocking details of the Washington Post op-ed and discussed the extraordinary dangers of the latest anti-conservative movement in America.

Watch the video below:

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As calls for censorship and restrictions against conservative voices get louder, Glenn Beck said he feels an "awesome responsibility" to speak, not the words he'd personally like to say, but those he believes the Lord would want him to share.

"It's an awesome responsibility, and one that I am not worthy of," Glenn said. "I want to say ... what He wants me to say. And I have to listen very carefully, because I feel the same way you do. But that will get us nowhere."

Glenn said it's time for Americans who are awake — not woke — to come together, no matter which side of the political aisle you're on, and stand with the truth.

"We are the Alamo, we will stand. But we desperately, desperately need you," Glenn said. "We need the people who are awake — not woke — awake. You may disagree with us. We are your allies, not your enemies. And if you will not stand with us in our hour of need, there will be no one left to stand with you in your hour of need. We must all come together, anyone who is awake."

Watch the video below to hear more from Glenn:

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