by Jim Cramer
GLENN: A guy who has been saying that the stock market is going to rally if Brown wins is Jim Cramer. Is Jim on the phone?
CRAMER: You bet.
GLENN: Hey, Jim, how are you?
CRAMER: Oh, thanks for having me, Glenn. Just delighted to be here.
GLENN: Not a problem. You've got a book out Getting Back to Even when I have to talk to you about because it's a way to protect your money and I say food and gold and bullets.
CRAMER: Well, I'm very much pro gold. So I'm with you on that one.
GLENN: All right. So Jim, before we get to any of this, let me talk a little bit about what you think is first of all, do you think Brown's going to win today?
CRAMER: Yes, I do. I think that in the last 72 hours it's come to fruition the notion that we can move to the center if this election goes the Republican way. And I think there's a lot of center Republicans in Massachusetts who are often viewed as being leftwing Democrats. So it's very positive.
GLENN: Do you really think this administration now, you are a guy who voted for Barack Obama.
GLENN: And you know how I feel about Barack Obama. I think he's a wee bit of a radical.
GLENN: Do you really think he is going to move to the center?
CRAMER: No, not at all.
GLENN: Not at all?
CRAMER: Because he's not a that's not what it's about to me. I think it's the country saying that we are tired of the left but that the people who are running the country, the Pelosi proletariat as I joke on my show but we know how realistic that is.
GLENN: Yeah, that's not a joke.
CRAMER: They are not interested in what the Massachusetts voters think. They have an agenda. And I don't think the agenda gets changed by anything. I just think the agenda has less of a chance of passing. That's what I care about.
GLENN: You don't think that they will pass it anyway? I mean, you know, they are already talk Pelosi said we're going to pass it anyway.
CRAMER: Well, good. I mean, she talks a very big game. And by the way, I expect that healthcare bill to be on the president's desk by Labor Day. Remember that one? I mean, look. This is one of those things. I'm a stock guy and I come at it from the stock point of view and I'm seeing a lot of companies rally today that would normally you think be penalized by the government. It's not just healthcare. There's a notion
GLENN: It's everything.
CRAMER: that the stock market is related only somehow to fat cats on Wall Street, and there are a lot of fat cats. That's in the administration. I wonder if it's because no one's had a job in the private sector.
GLENN: I would agree with you on that.
GLENN: You know, here's the thing. I run a small business here in New York which is becoming more and more impossible to do. The problem with this economy is that people who actually create jobs I probably would have created another, at least another ten, maybe twenty jobs in this last year than I have already. Had I known that the government was stable, they weren't going to change the rules on me, they are not going to continue to penalize me, they are not going to make doing business harder and harder every step of the way. Until you stop this progressive slide into, I don't even know what the heck you would call this now where they are coming after businesses that they choose to come after and build up the businesses that they choose to build up, you are never going to be able to have the free market recover.
CRAMER: Well, I agree. A bunch of us who are members of the police athletic league and the elks bought an in recently in New Jersey and everyone tells me what an idiot I am to be involved in it. And it's not because of the business. It's how do you know what the costs are going to be a year from now, whether it be taxes, whether it be healthcare. I mean, how could you ever be so imprudent? How could you ever be such a, if you call yourself a businessman, how can you possibly buy a business in this environment given the fact that the government could intervene heavily? I don't think this would have been said a decade ago, but it is front and center with why people think I'm such a joker to be involved in a new business.
GLENN: You know, during the depression they said that the uncertainty of the government was worse than the high taxes. We're back here again.
CRAMER: I think that's right. I mean, are we paying $6,000 a month for healthcare for people? Is it $3,000? Is it $9,000? Are we in the business of providing healthcare for people who, you know, were unfortunate enough and unfortunate to get, not to have a job? Is that what my in is going to be taxed at? I don't know. I think what it comes down to is it's just a lot better to be able to hunker down and not create a business. That's not what we want in the country because the people who hire people are the people who are thinking like you and me, that maybe it's worth it to create or hire.
GLENN: I have David Walker on. You know who David Walker is?
CRAMER: Oh, yeah, he is very like you, a very common sensical guy. He says a lot of smart things.
GLENN: I have him on television tonight to talk a little bit about the unsustainability of our debt and everything else. How concerned are you about that?
CRAMER: I think it would have to be from the point of view that I get to keep 45% of what I make and I think that it is perfectly reasonable to think with the people who don't believe that growth is going to lower the deficit that I IT's going to go down to 35 and when it gets to that 35 level, I start to think, well, what's the point. I believe that there's two ways to solve this problem. One is to get this economy really growing and that will cut the deficit. And the other thing is to try to tax it. And that won't cut the deficit but it will look good for people who are so called prudent.
GLENN: Right. But that's the way, that's the way they are going to go in Washington because again they don't know how to create jobs. They never have.
CRAMER: That's right. They never have. When you work for the government all your life and by the way, remember government workers now make more than people in the private sector.
GLENN: I know that.
CRAMER: They have a better pension plan. You start thinking, well, what am I doing in this private sector? Why don't I try to get a job with the government?
GLENN: So Jim, tell me what you what we could create in this country that would pay off this deficit. I mean, I think we are we have to have the equivalent of the Industrial Revolution or the early 20th century, you know, the 1940s kind of production. There's got to be something that completely changes the paradigm to be able to pay off this debt.
CRAMER: I think it's very important that everyone who is, and I'll regard myself as a carper, right now a carp to come up with a plan so that you are not just being destructive. And I have two elements of my plan. One is that there is $2.2 trillion in infrastructure that would bring our country current with other countries. That is a classic old Democratic view. So that's not something that's radical. The other is that we have we passed Russia as the largest producer of natural gas this year. We were probably not even in the top ten a few years ago. We've had tremendous discoveries of natural gas. It costs very little. We would be able to lower the deficit, become independent of people who I just regard as our enemies cite frankly, I'm not going to mince words. And the number of people who are employed at high paying jobs to be able to get natural gas out of the ground and ship it by pipeline would be remarkable and this is something that a classic I think mid, midrange Democrat like Windell has really endorsed. This is a game changer. We would be able to become energy independent from the bad guys, our costs for energy would go down, our balance for payments would go up, we would create hundreds of thousands of jobs, and this is being fought hard by this administration, hard.
GLENN: I'm called crazy when I talk about gold, or I'm told that I'm just doing it for profit which apparently is evil now in this country.
CRAMER: Yeah, I know. It's because profit it makes it so your kids can go to school. I don't know what you are all about. You probably don't people just want to get the free ride?
GLENN: Yeah. I mean, you know, why would I do that? You say you're pro gold.
CRAMER: Every portfolio I believe has 10% gold as a hedge against craziness and I think as a guy who runs Mad Money, I obviously have some insight into craziness.
GLENN: I've watched you.
CRAMER: It's important for everyone to recognize that the world has changed. 20% should be in foreign because there's a lot of stable governments like Brazil that are more stable than I think what we're offering right now for business. It's interesting. I had the
GLENN: Hold on. Hold on just a second.
GLENN: Stu, do you remember when I said that prediction? Two years ago.
STU: Yes, yes.
GLENN: I said Brazil will be more stable than the United States. Remember?
GLENN: And here it is.
CRAMER: Better currency, yeah, stronger policy on the budget deficit, a belief in capitalism will create jobs and grow the pie. You know, but I have to tell you just so we know how far gone we are. One of the five largest oil companies in America, Anadarko, Jim Hackett, really a no nonsense CEO said, look, I've got to tell you, right now it's so much easier to do business in, are you ready, Ghana than the United States, Ghana.
GLENN: How do you sleep at night? You voted for the man.
CRAMER: Well, you know, I still have high hopes that at a certain point the country recognizes that he can swing left. Look, I have to tell you
GLENN: So in other words, what you are saying is that ant can move that banana tree plant?
CRAMER: Pelosi, as I say often on my show, you know, we are in a moment where there's a congress person who is very, very powerful, obviously maybe the most powerful person in the country, and she is if he were to break from her, I think we might see a different president. But as I say on my show
GLENN: Oh, come on.
CRAMER: the dictatorship of the Pelosi proletariat.
GLENN: You are saying, you are blaming Nancy Pelosi, one of the most inept, just screwed up individuals you can find over Barack Obama and the team at the White House, you think David Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel and Barack Obama are being led by the nose?
CRAMER: No, no.
GLENN: By Nancy Pelosi?
CRAMER: Always hopeful. Always hopeful.
GLENN: I wish you were, I wish that were true.
CRAMER: I'm a hopeful thinker.
GLENN: Holy cow.
CRAMER: I'm an optimist and maybe that's because I'm from Philadelphia and I'm always hopeful that things will go my way.
GLENN: Okay, so Jim, your book, Getting Back to Even, you say that if Brown wins today, the stock market's going to go through the roof. How long does that last before you realize, oh, these Marxists are just going to keep going anyway?
CRAMER: Your term. But the essence of what I've been saying fortunately is happening right now as people are beginning to anticipate that the woman who believes that Curt Schilling is a Yankee fan is probably going to fall. And I think that we're stealing from tomorrow's rally. What I like, though, is it's not just concentrated in the drug companies even though they are going nuts and the healthcare maintenance companies but in basic American industries where it appears the people think that maybe if Washington were to play a smaller role that profits would come back. And one of the things that's kind of a longstanding thing that maybe the government isn't aware, when profits come back people hire and profits are good. Now, I know the president was on record last year as saying now is not the time for profits. I'm hoping that there's a transition period where profits are recognized as not being the enemy.
GLENN: I've got to, I've got to unfortunately I have to go. I'd love to have you back on because I want to talk to you more about the different things that people can do and I also want to talk to you a little bit about the unions and good heavens, the
CRAMER: You mean look for the union label and sell has been my philosophy for at least
GLENN: All right. Jim Cramer, it is a real pleasure. Name of the book is Getting Back to Even.
CRAMER: Thanks, Glenn.