by David Horowitz
GLENN: We yesterday was kind of a big day for education. National Day of Action to Defend Education. There were national calls for action. This sent thousands of people out into the streets, California, there were people in Wisconsin, there were people in Illinois. There was violence involved. UC Berkeley probably was the biggest. David Horowitz is here with me now. Hi, David.
HOROWITZ: Morning, Glenn.
GLENN: David, you were part of the 1960s generation that, you know, you were a useful idiot. Would you agree with that?
HOROWITZ: (Laughing). Well, I thought of myself as more than that.
GLENN: No, but I mean, that's what Stalin
HOROWITZ: I was a Marxist revolutionary. That's the way I would have described myself. And I was a leader of the new left and edited its largest magazine. And what the new left was, you know, was created, it was a disintegration of the Communist Party really because of the revelations about Stalin coming from Kruschev. So what happened was that the movement, it was a lot of groups. What you see in these protests is hundreds of groups. We used to call it the hydraheaded monster and we created it too fool people that we had different agendas from the from what the communists had. But actually they're the same agendas, that corporations are evil, we want socialism, we want the government to own everything and control everything and create social justice. And that's what happened yesterday.
If you look down the organizations, they were all in a coalition called Defend Education. But if you look at them, for example, there's one, Bail Out the People Movement, bail out the people, not the banks. This is a front group for the for International Answer, which is a pro North Korea Communist Party. I mean, it's a Bolshevik party that demonstrated the anti Iraq organizations. It was the leading organizer.
GLENN: I remember that.
HOROWITZ: Yeah, you have something called Anakbayan. There's a lot of those, which means sons and daughters of the people. If you look at the movement, you know how they support Hamas and Hezbollah, the terrorists. They have got this campaign to stop the U.S. military occupation of Haiti. This is what I call the neocommunist core of the progressive movement. The progressive movement includes fellow, what I would call fellow travelers. I mean, there are a lot of people who are on the left who would understand that there's a lot of crazies in the movement. And then you have SDS, you know, which is a violent campus organization.
GLENN: SDS, SDS is where the Weather Underground came from.
HOROWITZ: That's right, yes.
HOROWITZ: They were all SDS. They got elected to the SDS leadership and then they said we're going underground and we're going to, we're going to you know, we're going to be authentic revolutionaries. We're not just going to scream revolutionary slogans. We're going to actually blow things up. That was their
GLENN: What's the
HOROWITZ: There are a lot of groups in here like that. There's MEChA which wants to take back the southwest, is a racist organization. They call the southwest Aztlán, which I think is an Aztec name.
GLENN: Well, I love the logo of this organization because it has the eagle with a stick of dynamite in its claw.
HOROWITZ: Well, yeah. I mean, I actually, I like the out front people.
GLENN: Yeah. Me, too.
HOROWITZ: They tell you
GLENN: They're much better than, they are much better than what we have in the White House right now, the Van Jones of the world.
HOROWITZ: That's right.
GLENN: That are I mean, is there any doubt in your mind that Van Jones because I've read what some of these people are calling for. It's exactly what Van Jones is calling for. Is there any doubt in your mind that Van Jones is as radical as these groups?
HOROWITZ: Of course he is. You can always as somebody who came out of the left, I can you know, I can tell you if you turn against it, if you understand how evil it is and destructive and it wants to destroy America and you don't want to do that, you do what I did. I mean, you get out and you denounce them and you work against them. It's very easy to tell who's an authentic a person who's authentically had different ideas and somebody who's just concealing the same agendas, you know, with a front. And that's what Van Jones is.
GLENN: I was in a cab I was at a cab yesterday and the cabdriver was from Russia, former Soviet Union. And he said finally he just pulled over to drop me off and he said, Mr. Beck, I want you to know I am a very big fan. And I said, thank you very much, sir. And he said, people in America, they don't understand. We talked for a little while about the code language. He said even my daughter now, he came before the fall of the Soviet Union. He said, even my daughter who is in college now is falling for the code language, and she doesn't believe me. And I keep telling her, listen, this is the code language of the Soviet Union. Agree or disagree, David?
HOROWITZ: Absolute I call them neocommunists. We have a term, you know, neoliberals, neoconservatives, neo Nazis. These are neocommunists. Same agendas, different faith. Like parents who are members of the Communist Party never refer to themselves as communists. They were always progressives. The slogan of the Communist Party at the height under Stalin was peace, jobs and democracy. That was the Communist Party slogan. But you can look, if you just go down the list of these organizations. And let me just say not only are there these, you know, fight imperialism and so forth but there's the American Federation of Teachers, there's all these graduate
GLENN: There's unions.
HOROWITZ: Unions. There's the department of English at Penn State. Indiana university is one of the
GLENN: David, are the unions you watch the TV show, right?
GLENN: Yes. Have you seen the language that we've been showing people lately from Andy Stern, with the workers of the world?
HOROWITZ: Andy Stern is an old SDS radical. He's a Leninist. The two, what I would you know, the two communist unions, aside from the teacher unions would be the SEIU and ASME, which is the municipal employees which is also here.
GLENN: It's a sponsor of this.
HOROWITZ: You know, when there were antiglobalization riots, they're there. They're part of this movement. There's a good one that I like here: Destroy Industry in Raleigh, North Carolina. I mean, that tells you what they're about. It's just terrible.
GLENN: David, how much I said earlier today, we played this Bald Communist. Play this for David, will you, Pat, the Bald Communist? Listen to this.
VOICE: And this is part of the thing is I don't think we're going to be meeting people's day to day needs and I don't think we have to help this capitalist system which has met the needs of American working people on the backs of third world plantations for my whole lifetime. We don't have to help that. We have to help bring this government down. We have to help destroy this system and that requires increasing the alienation that working class and oppressed people feel.
HOROWITZ: Yeah. Glenn, yeah, I saw that tape. And thank you for bringing that to light. What this guy is saying is what everybody on the left believes. It's very hard to convey this to people. People, Americans, it's just very benign and tolerant and they're always giving people the benefit of the doubt. What this guy is saying is what they believe. He has the poor judgment to say it on tape. But this is what
GLENN: Thank God.
HOROWITZ: What everybody who wants to change the world, what else could they be thinking? You know, there are ways of changing the world which is that you tell people, you know, we want to create a society where the government controls everything, and you put it up for a vote. In a democracy you put it up for a vote. But these people have these hidden agendas and that's what makes them so dangerous.
GLENN: So David, let me ask you two questions. The first one is, my theory is the people that are your generation that were part of SDS, that were part of the radical left back in the 1960s, they now are the ruling class and they are in congress, they are in the White House, they are in business. They're everywhere. They have power. And they're also very sly now because they're undercover. These people are at the top and they understand because they did it themselves, they understand now what they didn't have in the 1960s was power at the top. So now they can stir up the hate and the students and bring the student activists into play, get them going while they apply pressure at the top and they pop the middle. Does that sound reasonable to you?
HOROWITZ: Well, yeah. I think there's a little bit more complicated, but you have absolutely described what is. That is, the people who were in the movement, we used to call it the movement in the Sixties now are running the government and they run the New York Times and the Washington Post. All those people were part of the left, of the Sixties. And their agendas are the same as these other people. Their tactics are different. So I don't I think some of them are, you know, embarrassed by this kind of radicalism. Certainly by that guy who you have on tape. They feel he is hurting their cause. We want to conceal, we want to conceal the agendas of the cause.
GLENN: Right. But their agenda is
HOROWITZ: But their agendas are identical because, look, to defend the free market system, you defend private property, you defend individual rights and you oppose group collective rights, or you don't. And we saw all these so called liberals and progressives, they are against the First Amendment, they attacked the Supreme Court decision which was a basic First Amendment decision. They are for they're racists. They are for racial references that is privileging certain designated groups who they call oppressed. I mean, they've corrupted our laws that way. And they are for socialism.
HOROWITZ: Obviously there wouldn't be this unbelievable push for a healthcare plan that, you know, a vast majority of people does not want if they didn't have these agendas. They want control. It's about control.
GLENN: David, hold on just a second because I have to take a quick break and then I'm going to come back and I want to ask you this one question and that is, how much danger are we in from the extreme radical left if things like healthcare don't pass? If this, if this movement now breaks down, how much danger is the country in? Back in just a second.
GLENN: Back with David Horowitz, we have a special tonight on indoctrination, video you must, must see, things that are going on in your country that you had absolutely no idea. I asked David before we went into the break, I'm concerned about this extreme left because as Andy Stern said, you know, we want our money's worth. These people have put a lot of time, a lot of attention, a lot of manpower, a lot of money behind this agenda, specifically healthcare, and counted on Barack Obama. They are starting to mobilize in kind of violent ways. How much trouble are we in, David, if this thing starts to fall apart with Barack Obama and healthcare isn't passed?
HOROWITZ: I think the potential for violence and actually disastrous violence is very real and that is because these first of all, these are violent groups and they will commit violent acts. But much more serious is that they are integrated with our terrorist enemies. They have networks and their ideology links them into the Islamic jihad. I've written a book about this called Unholy Alliance. I actually, I mean, I have experience of this. I mean, I was a very intellectual leftist. I never threw a rock. But as the editor of Ramparts magazine, which is the biggest magazine of the left, I was approached by an editorial board was approached by a defector from our intelligence services. And we printed national secrets in the magazine and, of course, nothing, nothing happened to us. We were advised by I was advised actually by Harvard law professor, still a professor of constitutional law on exactly how to commit treason.
GLENN: Holy cow.
HOROWITZ: So this mentality, I'm telling you the revolutionary mentality, the idea that you can change the world or change America fundamentally, which is what Obama said, is a very, very dangerous mentality.
GLENN: All right. David, I've got to run. Thank you so much. We'll talk again. I'd like to follow up some more with you in the coming days on Andy Stern and his connection to SDS. Back in just a second.