by Andrew C. McCarthy
GLENN: Andrew McCarthy is a guy I had on last night. Andrew McCarthy was the lead prosecutor for the '93 World Trade Center bombing. This guy has been -- I mean, he's been going after bad guys for quite some time and he's got an incredible article out about the company that he keeps on Barack Obama. And we started in on this conversation and I had, like, three and a half minutes with him last night. Started in on this conversation and there's just not enough time because the pieces of the puzzle on Barack Obama, you have to put them together yourself. And there are so many pieces out there that give us a very different picture. A disturbing picture on who Barack Obama really is based on the company that he keeps. Andrew, how are you?
McCARTHY: Glenn, I'm great, how are you?
GLENN: Very good. I want to get right to Barack Obama and the company he keeps. Before we get into it, tell me why it matters. Some people say, "Oh, you can't judge him by the people that are around him or that he's had contact with."
McCARTHY: Yeah, I used to hear that when I was a prosecutor, too, you know. They used to say you can't -- that's just guilt by association to which, you know, usually before people got convicted, I would say, well, you know, try proving conspiracy without association, you know. I mean, it's sort of an element that's of some importance. And obviously we don't condemn somebody simply because of who he associates with but, you know, people are drawn to each other for a reason, and I think there's a theme that runs through all of these troublesome connections that Obama has and frankly he's somewhat lucky, I think, even though you -- if that's a strange way to put it, that so much of this analysis has been infected by the racial element of right because I think the racial component is actually the least important of the things that strings this altogether.
GLENN: Well, the racial element is the first tip-off that this guy has Marxist tendencies.
McCARTHY: Yeah, that's exactly right. And the racial element, if you dig a little bit deeper into it, this liberation theology, this Black Liberation Theology is just really a sort of a parrot of the leftist liberation theology that was -- you know, that came to our attention so powerfully in the Sixties and Seventies in South and Central America.
GLENN: Well, I mean, here's -- I love this from your article, from the church's own mission statement that he goes to. "We are African people and we remain true to our native land, the mother continent and the cradle of civilization." The one that you would remain true to, your native land, I mean, most people that go to that church, I would imagine their native land is America.
McCARTHY: Yeah, you would hope that. I don't think that you can uncouple that with some of the, not only the fact that Obama stayed in that church for so long and, you know, had Wright marry him and baptize his children, but some of the things Michelle Obama has said hook up to this a little bit too uncomfortably for me. For example, this business in her thesis and, you know, I know we all don't want to be tagged with our college usings but again, you know, we're trying to put these pieces together. But she actually argues in the thesis that a separatist would understand the black community and the black experience in America better than one of these sort of benighted integrationists because only the separatist really understands the authentic experience and can touch that. And I just, when I hear that sort of stuff, I hear the very echoes of the part of the mission statement that you're talking about here.
GLENN: All right. So let me -- let's start at the beginning because I think Michelle Obama is the key to understanding Barack Obama. I think, you know, her statements that people dismiss on, oh, America is just downright mean or some of the stuff she just said in a speech last night that was absolutely incredible about how, you know, she went to Harvard and Princeton but people tried to keep her down there and she barely makes it and she's an anomaly and, gosh, now they're trying to take the presidency away from her husband. I mean, it's amazing stuff, but let's get to her through two other really important pieces and that is let's start with William Ayers.
GLENN: William Ayers, you told me last night on television you need to read the September 11th article on William Ayers, member of the Weather Underground. Last night we posted it up on our website. I bet it's probably still there. America, you should read this. When I read it, Andrew -- I was amazed at this guy that he is allowed to be -- or that he's, not allowed, that he's so accepted by the people in Barack Obama's company.
McCARTHY: You know, Glenn, and the thing I asked you yesterday and I'm sure now that you've taken a look at it, it resonates even more. Common sense question for people. Ask yourself, could you talk to this guy for 30 seconds and not know where he was coming from.
McCARTHY: Then if the answer's no, then ask yourself if you're a person of Barack Obama's sophistication and education, is it conceivable that you could be around this guy -- and he spent quite a bit of time around him -- and not know precisely where he was coming from and how he wanted to quote/unquote change America?
GLENN: Well, it makes -- when you start to look into who his friends are, it makes a couple of things, like the flag lapel pin makes sense, that he won't wear a flag lapel pin. There is a very famous picture that we posted on the website a few months ago where he was on the phone at a campaign headquarters with a Che Guevara flag behind him.
GLENN: And I thought to myself what candidate would sit in there and have that picture taken with a Che flag behind him. Well, I know exactly what candidate, a guy who would associate with William Ayers. Tell everybody about William Ayers. Take it a little deeper than what we know as member of the Weather Underground, bombed the Pentagon.
McCARTHY: Right, bombed the Pentagon, bombed other U.S. targets including the capitol, banks, U.S. headquarters, et cetera. Now, Obama waves at all that and says all that stuff happened 40 years ago, how can you blame me for stuff that happened 40 years ago. I don't want to quibble with dates, it doesn't quite happen more than 40 years ago. But more to the point, he has associated with this guy in the here and now, and that interview that we talked about a couple of minutes ago was actually published by the New York Times on sent 11th.
GLENN: Yeah, the article is entitled "No regrets For a Love of Explosions, in a memoir of sorts, he talks with life of the weatherman and he is not ashamed of it. In fact, in a very creepy way he talks about his love for and the beauty of explosions.
McCARTHY: Yep. It really is creepy is precisely the right word for it. But the reason I think it has very -- it's very important in the here and now is that it's a fresh statement, it's an indication by him that far from any regret over what he did, he actually says that he wishes that he had done more. And when he's challenged a little bit and, you know, this is the "New York Times," so he wasn't going to be challenged that much. But when he's challenged a bit on some of the things he's saying, he talks about, you know, how can you talk about America as a great country; it still makes me want to puke. Every ounce of his being --
GLENN: This is recent stuff.
McCARTHY: I'm sorry?
GLENN: This is recent stuff. This is not 1970. That's recent.
McCARTHY: No, and it's not only recent stuff, it's stuff that was vintage of the time that he was sitting on the Woods board, a left wing charitable organization, sitting on that board with Barack Obama and making appearances with him on, you know, college panels, one of which at least was arranged by Michelle when she was an associate dean at the University of Chicago.
GLENN: But it also doesn't go just to sitting on boards with him and college panels. His wife was also a, you know, 1970s terrorist activist and when Barack Obama first started launching campaigns, didn't he launch at the Ayers home?
McCARTHY: Well, that's exactly right. His coming out party was at the home of Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, his wife that you just alluded to a second ago. You know, I have some stuff in the piece about Bernardine Dohrn as well who was quite a character in her own right.
GLENN: You can't leave it -- I mean, when Sharon Tate was killed, she came out and said, "Dig it. First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them. They even shoved a fork into the victim's stomach, wild."
McCARTHY: Yeah, wild, that's what she said. You know, and that, again I suppose you could dismiss some of this as the youthful exuberance of a youthful terrorist but, you know, if there weren't -- if it wasn't so obvious that there was a freshness to it in the sense of their lack of remorse over it and Ayers, of course, saying that he wishes they had done more and, you know, one of the things I think you can't dismiss out of all of this is, you know, I'm a counterterrorism guy. So I guess maybe that's my prism for looking at a lot of this stuff. But, you know, with respect to jihadism we have both a hard jihad and a soft jihad, you know. We have people who blow up the buildings and then the people who engage in the extortion, you know, just like you pay the Gambino money man.
McCARTHY: Because you know what the wages of resistance are. And what I fear with these characters, Ayers and Dohrn in particular, is they haven't changed where they're coming from. They haven't changed a bit the thing, the ideology that motivates them. What they've changed is their methodology. They are not blowing up buildings anymore. They are, you know, shaping mines.
GLENN: Yeah, they have been institutionalized.
GLENN: Not in the way I would like them institutionalized. Then if you can tie into Rashid Khalidi.
McCARTHY: Well, when Dohrn -- I'm sorry, when Ayers and Obama were on the Woods board together, they were -- the board was in charge of deciding who got the largess from this organization. One place that got some money from them, a decent bit of money was the -- was Wright's church, Reverend Wright's church was awarded money as basically as an homage to Obama for his service on the board which again shows how identified to people who knew them, how identified Obama was with Wright and with that whole church.
McCARTHY: The other recipient I talk about is Rashid Khalidi who is a long time apologist for Yasser Arafat. Now, there's been some reporting that he was actually an official member of the PLO, that he was their spokesman. He denies that that was true, but certainly doesn't and I don't think could deny that he was a very pro-Arafat character and that he has been a supporter at least of terrorist attacks directed at Israel soldiers which he denies as resistance, not terrorism.
GLENN: This guy is tied in with Barack Obama and William Ayers in what way?
McCARTHY: Well, in two ways. Number one, when they were on the Woods board together, they voted to donate $75,000 to an outfit that he started in Chicago called the Arab American Action Network. It was co-founded by him, by Khalidi and Khalidi's wife. And then Khalidi moves on from Chicago to go to Columbia to actually take over the Edwards Said chair and become a professor of Arab studies at Columbia University which has become, I think notorious, and I say this as a Columbia graduate, has become notorious as a real hotbed of anti-Israel, anti-Semitic passion I would say. When he moved on, from when Khalidi moved on from Chicago and Columbia, they had a big dinner for him, a farewell dinner, and there were Obama and Ayers together again, you know, paying tribute to him on his way out the door from Chicago to Columbia.
GLENN: It is amazing to me that all of the pieces are here. Everything we need, Andrew, is here to judge who these people are and yet nobody in the media wants to tie it together. Nobody wants to tell the truth. And even when you do see all of these pieces, people are dismissing it.
McCARTHY: Well, you know, I think they dismiss it, Glenn, because it means either of two things and both of them are unpleasant, especially for this almost cult-like infatuation that people have had for Obama. I personally think Obama's candidacy has been more about us than it is about him. I think he's been almost an empty vessel where his supporters have projected their hopes and dreams on him as if that was, you know, what he was actually about and as if he didn't have a personality of his own that we needed to be concerned about.
McCARTHY: But what this means is either of two things: Obama continues to say, you know, I didn't know this about Wright or I didn't know that about Ayers or you can't, you know, blame me for what these people say or think. If that's true, he's got no business being President. I don't think we want a President who, you know, could spend all this time around people who are five-alarm anti-Americans and say, you know, he wasn't true enough to know who they are, who they were and what they were about. The alternative is that he knew exactly what they were and what they were about and he was totally comfortable with that and I don't think, you know, that does him much good, either.
GLENN: This is -- you are hearing Andrew McCarthy. Andrew is the prosecutor responsible for leading the investigation of the blind Sheikh in the '93 World Trade Center bombing. He's got a new book out called Willful Blindness, a Memoir of the Jihad, how we're not paying attention to the 800-pound gorilla that is sitting in the room. Andrew, I'd like to have you back to talk about what you learned in that trial and in that whole process trying to put the blind sheikh behind the bars. May we have you back?
McCARTHY: Oh, I'd be delighted, Glenn, thank you.
GLENN: Thanks lot, Andrew.
McCARTHY: Thank you.