GLENN BECK PROGRAM
GLENN: So, yeah, there you go. Sorry to inflict that on you. All right. So let me talk a little bit about Joe Horn here.
GLENN: The Chronicle, the headline is, "Police say Horn shot two men in the back."
GRAY: Yeah, not misleading, is it? And what a surprise from Houston's hometown Pravda, the Chronicle. And I know every city's got one. Every city's got their own hometown Pravda. This happens to be ours. You know, it starts out that way with that kind of headline and then it goes on to describe what really happened and that these two guys were illegal aliens, that they crossed not only across the neighbor's yard but also his yard. If you read that in there, they actually crossed into Joe Horn's yard. Well, at that point, I'm sorry, but you're defending your own property.
GLENN: Right. And it also, one of the guys was shot in the side, and I'll get to the most stunning fact here in a second.
GLENN: Shot him in the side, not the back, because he was actually moving towards Joe.
Is Joe Horn a hero?
GLENN: The way he was positioned, he was actually moving towards him and as anybody who is into security or anything, it happened -- they can kill people. Anyone can be dead within a fraction of a second. You don't have time. If somebody's moving towards you and they wish -- and you think they may wish you harm, you've got to act now because if they're on top of you, it's over.
GRAY: Well, you know, that's reminiscent of Ramos and Compean and the whole thing there with him turning around and showing them a shiny object and all of that. You know, they had to act. You know, you don't have time to ask questions and get whatever he's got in his hand under a microscope and all that.
GLENN: All right, hang on. So you've got the Chronicle saying they shot them in the back. Not true. Not true. I mean, it's misleading.
GRAY: It is.
GLENN: It's misleading.
GRAY: It's disingenuous at best.
GLENN: Yes. So you've got that statement out there. Then you have the 911 tape. And to me this still does not sit well with me but when you look at the rest of the facts we'll get into here in a second, you kind of look at the 911 tape and go not so much. But I want to play this tape again. This is the 911 tape that came in to 911 in Houston, Texas from Joe Horn.
(911 tape playing.)
GLENN: Well, there it is. There's the third one from the 911 tape from Joe Horn. The part that bothers me is he said, I'm going to kill somebody, and I happen to agree with the 911 operator. Property, stuff, is just not worth killing somebody over or being killed for, but you can hear his frustration: "They're getting away, they're getting away." Now, first let's go in, Pat. Give me the stats on these two guys. Correct me if I'm wrong. In Houston when they were shot, was the media not saying these are two good family men?
GRAY: Oh, oh, every day, every day.
GLENN: Tell me the good things that they said about these guys.
GRAY: They paraded their families out, they showed that this was a husband and a father and here's the grieving widow now and look at the young son. All of this, all of that kind of stuff. And that just went on for days and so, you know, that's the way in which the rest of the country had an opportunity to see this presented as if he just gunned down these two good family people. And he's doing it inside somebody else's home. Plus they were --
GLENN: Hang on, hang on. That is exactly what -- I mean, everybody was saying, well, wait a minute, good family men don't break into somebody else's house and steal stuff. But I said on the day of the shooting, I'll bet you these guys are illegal aliens because they never say if they're legals or not. Now, that's nowhere to be found. And when asked specifically, no comment.
GLENN: So you could just guess that they were illegal aliens. But these were not just illegal aliens.
GRAY: No, they were part of a driver's license and drug ring that according to local law enforcement officers who speak off the record on a regular basis, nobody wants to really get in front of this thing and be the person that's meeting it head on, but many have said off the record, this happens every night somewhere. This drug ring and this driver's license, these guys are out. This Colombian ring are out every day in Houston breaking into people's homes.
GLENN: Okay. These guys are from Colombia.
GRAY: From Colombia.
GLENN: They have already been deported once.
GRAY: Yeah, how did they make it back into the country? Isn't that astounding? How did you get back? That border is so tight and secure. How, how did you possibly make it back into the country? And somehow he managed. Somehow he managed. He's right back here breaking into other people's homes, again. So, you know, and initially we were told they were Puerto Ricans. I think they had false documents from Puerto Rico. What a surprise. You know, they're Colombians. They are part of this drug ring. They are not good family guys. They're lifetime criminals.
GLENN: Yeah. Really bad, really, really bad guys. Now, here's the interesting thing.
GRAY: Very, very fascinating aspect of who saw this all happen.
GLENN: Wait. Hang on, before we get to that. The target, the home that they broke into, Vietnamese immigrants. The reason why they targeted this home is because they believed they were immigrants and they felt that immigrants were an easier target.
GLENN: These are illegals breaking into legal immigrants and they did it because they're easier targets. That's how good of family men they are. Now, when the Houston Chronicle writes "Horn shot two men in the back," you have to read all the way down to the bottom to find out who was watching this. How do they know what exactly happened?
GLENN: Who was there?
GRAY: A plain clothes detective whose name hasn't been released yet, actually parked in front of Joe Horn's house when he responded to the 911 call. And he didn't jump initially out because the situation was so volatile, he didn't want to get shot. He didn't want to have to start shooting. And he kind of watched the whole thing unfold.
GLENN: Yeah. He didn't want to jump out of the car because he was afraid Horn would see him.
GRAY: And he would think he was the getaway car, he was the driver.
GLENN: Correct. He sat there and watched the whole thing.
GRAY: It would have been probably even -- it would have thrown a monkey wrench into the whole situation. Who knows what would have happened at that point. So he kind of watched it unfold, in fact at one point ducked when he heard the shots ringing out because he didn't want to get shot. And so apparently the officer watched the whole thing. He saw these guys head towards Horn. He saw them cross Horn's yard. He watched the entire incident unfold.
GLENN: Okay. So now here is the interesting thing that maybe instead of police say horn shot two men in the back, maybe it should read, police witness shooting; did not arrest Horn. What do you say?
GRAY: That would be -- what kind of weird spin are you trying to throw out of this?
GLENN: Oh, I know. I'm just trying to say if police were there and you have an eyewitness and it's a police officer, kind of credible, and he watches it happen, he sees it unfold and he doesn't go over with his gun drawn and say, Mr. Horn, down on the ground and doesn't handcuff that man and haul his butt to jail, well, then it seems to me that Horn was acting in a responsible way.
GRAY: Yeah. And we absolutely know that was not the case. Horn is still a free man today. There's still going to be a hearing of some sort but, you know, you have an eyewitness account in the Pasadena police department to back up his story.
GLENN: Now you have another story in Houston that an elderly man shot and killed somebody for breaking into his house in Houston just last week and police didn't arrest him, either. I mean, this seems to be something that happens in Texas where people use their gun to defend their own home and they don't get in trouble.
GLENN: Almost the way it, you know, seems to be written in the Constitution.
GRAY: I can think of something like five times since September that it's happened where burglars have been shot and killed inside people's homes or on their property. And in fact, a guy in Dallas shot down two men in the last, I don't know, this just happened within the last two months. He shot and killed two people at his place and he has just been hounded as some kind of out-of-control radical. Well, he's defending his property and he has every right to do that in this state. If you don't -- you know, good safety tip again. If you don't want to be shot burglarizing somebody's house, don't burglarize somebody's house. Maybe that's just me.
GLENN: You know, I think it comes down to two things, Pat. One, did he break the law in Texas. According to Texas law, it doesn't look that way.
GRAY: It doesn't look that way.
GLENN: It's going to a grand jury. So it doesn't look like he violated Texas law. So the law is the law. The second question is do you shoot people over property. Well, if the law says you can, well, then I guess you can which, burglars, beware. It would probably cut down on crime in Joe Horn's neighborhood if you can shoot somebody coming into your property or your neighbor's property.
The second thing is do you shoot yourself, and that's a personal question. You can get away with it apparently legally and so then it just becomes a personal choice. And my personal choice is, I don't think so.
GRAY: Yeah, me, too.
GLENN: I don't go out -- would you have gone out the doors, Pat?
GRAY: No, I don't think so.
GLENN: I don't think so, either.
GRAY: I don't hunt deer. It would not be something I would be prepared to do, unless you're in my house and you're --
GLENN: Wait a minute. You are saying you wouldn't have done it because you don't feel that you would have been a good shot or --
GRAY: No, I would have gone out there and I would have gotten shot because I wouldn't have been willing to pull the trigger at that point.
GLENN: Well, there you go. You never pull a gun unless you are willing to kill somebody.
GRAY: If you are in my home and you're threatening my family, that's a different story.
GLENN: Oh, you're dead.
GLENN: You're dead.
GRAY: But, you know, I'm not willing to condemn Joe Horn for doing something within the law.
GLENN: No, as long as he was in the law, and it appears -- I mean, the most damning thing I've heard to these, you know, crybabies who are, you know, crying over these two. And look, again I wouldn't have made this choice and as long as he's in the law, he has a right to do it. I wouldn't have made that choice to do it, and I wouldn't have done it because I can't handle a gun. I wouldn't have done it because I'm not going to kill somebody over property. But that's -- you know, to each his own, you know? You've got a right. As long as you've got that right in Texas, he exercised that right. You know, the real thing here is the police officer being an eyewitness. If the police officer saw it and didn't arrest him, that speaks volumes.
GRAY: I think it does.
GLENN: Speaks volumes. All right, Pat, thanks a lot.
GRAY: Thank you.