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GLENN: I want to talk to you, I want to talk to you a little bit, and maybe this is the difference between this show and other shows is I come to you as a guy who says I am completely flawed. I mean, you know, as much as I believe in family, boy, I struggle on being a dad. I really do. I struggle on being a son. I mean, I just, I believe in family, but that doesn't mean that I'm perfect at it by any stretch of the imagination. I believe in the things that I believe, but I come to you as a flawed guy. I believe in the things that I do on the economy and our country, but I don't ever want to come to you as a guy who you think that I'm beating my chest and say, "I am the ultimate authority." I truly -- and anybody who works with me will tell you this is true. I seek out the best minds I can possibly find and then I follow the example of Socrates. I just ask them question after question after question after question until they can't answer any more questions and then I go to the next. I want someone to prove some of these things that I feel. I want -- there's nobody that wants to be wrong more than me. And if you're a long-time listener to this program, you know that I'll come to you at times and I'll say, I'm trying to think things through and it's not quite right yet.
So let me do that with you here. I want to think things through. I just want to say them out loud with you and then just tell you what's on my mind because honestly this is what I'm trying to develop with the, you know, WE Surround Them project which we're going to unveil and show you on Friday's television show at 5:00. It is, we've got to start just talking to each other and we have to have conversations with each other where we're not afraid to think out loud, we're not afraid to say things that others might think are crazy. That's okay. Doesn't matter. Let's just say them and let's think out loud.
So let me think out loud with you. I was talking to Jim Rogers. He was George Soros' old partner. And Jim is a guy, is American. He moved his family, what, two, three years ago to Singapore because he said at the time Singapore is the future. And he said America is making too many critical errors and they're just, we are going to be left in the dust. And so he moved his family away from America. Now, CNBC used to have him on all the time when he was saying good things and then after he started saying things like, you know, the market's going to head for a crash and we're going to head for a depression and it's going to be ugly like you won't believe, all of a sudden he was marginalized as a kook and then, you know, he found himself, you know, in five different boxes on television and they would only say one thing, and the four people in the other boxes would yell at him. And so he was marginalized. Well, now he's starting to look really, really smart again, not because he's changed anything he said. It's because he didn't change what he had to say.
We had him on the show, what, last week and we had him for, I don't know, 15 minutes. And he said something. I said, you know, Jim, everybody is talking on television, you know, to the billionaires and the millionaires and the people who have all kinds of investments and, you know, understand the treasury bills, and I don't even know what -- I barely even knew how the treasury worked two years ago. I mean, who's got -- well, I'm a -- hey, Bob, did you hear this at the gas station this weekend? Hey, Bob, what did you do with your treasuries? What is that? I said, I just want to ask you if you have money in a 401(k) and it's all the money you have in the world, what do you do? What do you do? You've already lost about half of it. What should you do? What should the average person do? And he said at the time, he said wait for a rally and then get out.
Now, when he said that, I thought he meant, you know, maybe 200, 300, 400 points and then pull your money out. I don't think so. I can be wrong. I know nothing about this. Listen, this is not a financial show, a financial advice show. I have no place to tell you. I can tell you what I'm thinking. I can tell you what I'm doing. You've got to go seek an expert out. You've got to do your own homework. You've got to make your own decisions. Don't -- you know, people go, "Oh, he's just saying that so he can hedge his bet." No, I mean that. I didn't know how the treasury worked two years ago. So I'm the last guy you should go to for advice. When he said that, I was thinking about a small rally. But over the weekend as I'm doing my homework, there is something called a bear rally. I never heard of it. Apparently it's rare that a big bear rally would happen. And what it means is in the market of fear where everybody is right now, all of a sudden the market starts to rally and it can go up, you know, from 400 points to 4,000 points. It could just rally all the way up. But it's not real. And a bear rally then comes down and comes crashing down and destroys all of the wealth.
I will tell you that I have -- if you're a long-time listener, you know I have somebody who talks to me, a deep throat, but I have several people that don't want to talk to me on the record that tell me things, and there's somebody that I really truly respect that has said the market is going to go through a violent swing. It will go rocket high and crash down low. Said that about two weeks ago. I thought it was what we were doing here, you know, where we go up a couple of hundred points and then down, up and down, up and down. I don't think so. Again I'm thinking out loud.
I think there's going to come a time, because bubbles bother me now. Bubbles really bother me. Group think really bothers me because when the experts -- and so far the experts aren't saying this. When the experts all say something, I think it's usually wrong. I don't -- they don't -- they have been wrong every step of the way. And now the group think, I trust your gut better than any other expert, and I trust my gut. My gut still says there are fundamental problems with this country. There are fundamental problems. There's nothing real. We have a spending problem and we have a production problem. We don't make anything anymore. We just spend and create paper. That's all we do. That doesn't make sense. That doesn't work. It works for a while, but it doesn't make sense. When they're telling you, "Oh, you've got to go out and buy, got to go out and buy." Why? What are we creating? How is that helping our children? That's just ratcheting up debt.
But there's this group think that's going on that is very, very down. People now are starting to say, "Wow, we're in real trouble." The experts, however, are all pointing the other direction. They're all pointing up. I think there could come a time -- we have to be very careful on this. There could be a time when we start to see things turn around and it looks like a real rally, where it looks like, hey, we're coming out of it. Everybody wants that to happen, including me. So we could get caught up in the exuberance of, oh, my gosh, we just, we just dodged a bullet. Don't be so sure.
The market is down today. We're at 6614. I think we're headed to 5,000. I don't even know where. But I don't think this is the bottom. The problem, the fundamental problem that has to be solved is we have to know what tomorrow is going to look like. We have to know who controls our banks. We have to know that the government is not going to change the tax codes even more, that the government is not going to fundamentally change the rules more than they already have, which is staggering what they've done. We don't even know what they've done yet. We haven't felt that effect at all. We have to know that the unions are not going to be able to organize, you know, in small businesses. Just like card check: We have to know these things. If we would check that, if we would stop out-of-control spending, then I believe we could have a real rally.