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GLENN: I want to continue to talk to you about the Miranda rights because this is such an unbelievable, such an unbelievable controversy, and we must think this through and then do the tough thing. I want to play a little bit of Rachel Maddow from last night on MSNBC.
PAT: She's talking about Joe Lieberman, in fact, part of the clip we play. Do you want to start with Lieberman?
GLENN: Sure, that's fine, yeah.
PAT: And then her reaction to that. Maybe we'll play the rest of the Lieberman clip and that will help explain it.
GLENN: Because Lieberman has come out and said, you know... we're
PAT: Joe... Lieberman...
GLENN: He says we need to look at somebody's citizenship here and, you know, you might lose your citizenship if you are involved in terror. Well, you can do that but not before you've been convicted and proven guilty.
SENATOR LIEBERMAN: But, you know, you raise a point, and some of us have started to talk about it here which is, you know, there is an existing law which hasn't been much used. It says that if an American citizen is shown to be fighting in a military force that is an enemy of the United States, then that person is loses their citizenship.
GLENN: All right, okay. If you are found to be fighting with a foreign force. Well, that's battlefield stuff, battlefield stuff. And then also, you don't, you don't presume guilt. You presume innocent. No matter how bad it looks, you presume innocence for citizens. Presume innocence. And even noncitizens if you're, you know, you are an illegal immigrant and you're standing with a knife bloody and there's a dead body in the kitchen and they walk in. You still don't say, you are an illegal immigrant? "You did it, you're guilty!" You're presumed innocent in this country. We just caught them. We caught this guy with the police. Now let's do the right thing.
Now, here is Rachel Maddow and what she said last night.
MADDOW: It should be noted that Senator Lieberman is a little unclear on his facts here. If you are arrested in the United States of America, the reason you get due process rights, the reason, for example, you get red your Miranda rights is not because you are a U.S. citizen. Even foreigners here get due process and get read their rights. The reason you get due process if you are arrested in America is because this is America. Remember? We called Senator Lieberman's office today for clarification on his call to strip Americans of their citizenship without trial and without due process. As usual, no one in his office would call us back.
GLENN: Well, they are reaching for that.
PAT: Yeah. She's right about that
GLENN: She's right.
PAT: And she's rarely, rarely right.
STU: Her delivery's awful.
GLENN: Here's the thing. I actually, I'm sure, you know, we would, you know, not get along. But I've always I see her and while I disagree with everything that comes out of her mouth, she seems like a nice person. I've never heard
STU: Now, have you forgot the last time that she was what was the last incident with her when she was trying to
STU: It was something with you where she was publicly addressing on the air.
GLENN: I vehemently disagree with her.
GLENN: I vehemently disagree with her. There was a couple of people last night that were at this Time 100 thing that I really disagree with. There's this woman that stood up and she spoke and she's the one who is overseeing the TARP funds. She's the inspector general of the TARP funds. I have a feeling she's, you know I don't know. She's very left. But I thought she was an honest person. I thought she was she had integrity, okay? May be wrong on that, I don't know. But she struck me as somebody who I would strongly disagree with, but she has integrity. And I'm sitting at the table last night and I'm talking to these, you know, Time people and because nobody else would sit with me. But I'm sitting with these Time people at the kiddies table and, you know, they're I'm trying to, I'm trying to get it through their head that you don't have to like people. You don't have to be friends. But you also, you also can, if people are honest and they are honest brokers, you can get anything done.
PAT: We can disagree without being disagreeable.
GLENN: No, no, please don't. Please don't. You can't
PAT: What? What did I do? I am trying, I am trying to be an honest broker here.
GLENN: No, you are not. No, you are not.
PAT: And say something in earnest.
GLENN: That wasn't earnest.
PAT: We can disagree without being disagreeable.
GLENN: I know you're I know when you're being earnest.
PAT: Look, I have said in the past
GLENN: Oh, see? Now I know.
PAT: this notion that we have to be disagreeable to disagree
PAT: is disingenuous at best.
GLENN: You can sit down with people who are honest. Now, I don't know if she is. And here's, here's one test. Here's one test. Would she say the same thing if this would have been a tea party?
PAT: I don't think so.
STU: No, she would not. No, she would not. And the other thing, remembering what we're talking about, last time the incident with her was you made a joke about global warming being caused by or the snow being caused by global warming and you are saying that it proved global warming false. It was a clear joke. You were making fun of Al Gore and she went on the air and acted like you were serious.
PAT: That's right. Stu and she came back again, absolutely knowing she was lying about it, came back on the air and did it again.
GLENN: That's the problem. The people like Joe Klein, that's the problem. Now listen, here's a test. For anybody on the left, anybody on the left, they are all trying to figure me out: Oh, my gosh, how I don't fit into their little box. Well, what is the little box that you created for me and people like me? Well, the little box is we're just playing politics, we just hate Barack Obama, we just "Oh, please, the Constitution, these people don't even know the Constitution. They don't even know history." That's what's being said. Excuse me?
Now, it's very easy to say, for instance, somebody on the left like Rachel Maddow, and I'm not accusing her of this. She may actually believe what she's saying. I hope she does. The proof will be in the pudding to see if you get due process or if you are crucified.
PAT: There's pudding? Where? When are we I didn't realize there was going to be did you know there was going to be pudding today, Stu?
STU: This is I didn't know that but I do enjoy pudding. It does seem like we might be going
PAT: You were going to play initially.
STU: We're going a little bit off the topic potentially.
GLENN: Here's the thing. You can always, you can always tell or you can always you need to look. What does this person benefit by saying these things? Especially if they're hiding in it? What do they benefit? Well, Rachel Maddow, you could say, well, she benefits because this is part of her crowd. But it's just part of her philosophy as well. So you don't know if she really benefits. She doesn't do herself any damage by coming out and defending a terrorist. I mean, play the audio from NBC of the woman who's like, yeah, I'm really disappointed, I was really kind of hoping that it wouldn't be a domestic I mean, it wouldn't be a foreign person; it would be a domestic. She was hoping that it would be a Timothy McVeigh.
BREWER: The thing is that and I get frustrated and I was and there was part of me that was hoping this was not going to be anybody with ties to any kind of Islamic country because there are a lot of people who want to use terrorist intent to justify writing off people who believe in a certain way or come from certain countries or whose skin color is a certain way. I mean, they use it as justification for really out
GLENN: Stop. So she goes on to say, you know, it just makes you more bigoted. And so she was hoping that that wouldn't happen because it's just going to make bigoted people even more bigoted. Listen to that. She was hoping that it would be somebody like a militia because those people are just as dangerous. Well, no, they're not. At least not at this point they're not. They could be. But they're not just as dangerous because they haven't done anything. So I'm wondering if Rachel Maddow and everybody on the left, Jon Stewart and everybody on the left will be so unbelievably outraged. What did they say with the FBI when they went after the guys, you know, in the militia? Did any of them point out that it's not all militias? It was the other, the good militia that called the cops and tipped them off to the bad militia? Did they even say that? No. No, it's just all crazy rightwing people.
So we'll be able to tell when it hurts Rachel Maddow to say the things that she's saying. Then we'll know she actually believes it. Now, I would just like to point out, for any member of the left that happens to be listening now, that this is not popular. Let me ask you this: Do you think it helps me? If all I care about is ratings, everything you say about me, I only care about ratings? I only care about giving people red meat? I only care about controversy? How does it help me to come out and say we must stand by the Constitution even when it's wildly unpopular? How does it help me with my audience, who apparently just wants to "get em, because they're dark skinned! Get em!" How does it help me, to have a person who came here, person from Pakistani descent, becomes an American citizen and then tries to kill us and me say, no, no, no, Mirandize him immediately, innocent until proven guilty, standing up for the rule of law? When somebody has something to gain. Well, then you can look at it and you just need to balance it and say, well, do I believe them or not? Will they sell their soul to the devil just for whatever it is? When somebody has something to lose, that carries a little bit more weight. Why would they do that?
Rachel, I don't think that you have anything to lose on your stance. I know you don't. You may, may have something to gain, but that is just that people will watch you some more, you know, but but those people who always put me in a box and say "I don't believe anything," ask yourself, what is it that I have to gain? And don't I have more to lose with this, standing with your crowd? Let's see the courage of your convictions when it counts.