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GLENN: Juan Williams, formerly of NPR and now full time with Fox, $2 million
a year contract. God bless you, Juan Williams.
PAT: Is this a great country? Is this a great country or what? It's a great
GLENN: So Juan, you and I I think we've met, what, twice before?
WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. We were at the White House correspondence dinner sitting
GLENN: Which was there was nothing better than that. Sorry I can't make those
WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah.
GLENN: Juan, I've watched you for years and you make my head explode.
GLENN: And I imagine and I imagine that I make your head explode.
WILLIAMS: No, not as much as you might think. But you once said to me, you make
my life more difficult. And I think that's true because then people will say,
oh, you know what? You know, you're on Beck's channel, you talked to Beck, you
know, and then they have all sorts of attitudes and things that they want to
tell me that you said.
GLENN: Right. But I respect you and I think you respect me.
WILLIAMS: I do.
GLENN: And yeah. And we can have conversations with each other. This is the way
America is supposed to work. If somebody
WILLIAMS: I'm glad you made this point.
GLENN: Go ahead.
NPR Fires Juan Williams Over Muslim Comments
WILLIAMS: I just think it's crazy that you can't have a conversation, that I
can't sit down with Glenn Beck and talk to him and say, Glenn, here's where
you're right and here's where I think you're wrong and Glenn can say, Juan,
you're a nutbag and you know what? How can you say that. And Glenn can give me a
lesson and then we can say, you know what? I think Glenn has integrity and I
think that he cares about me as a human being and I care about him, and we had
an honest, full throated debate. Is there anything wrong with that, Glenn Beck?
GLENN: There is nothing wrong with that. That is the way it's supposed to work.
But you have it requires an honest exchange with people. And Juan, I have never
felt that you were one of these guys who is just, you know, you're on the Soros
payroll and you're saying whatever the talking points are. I can't have, on the
left or the right, I can't have an honest conversation with people that are just
a talking point head. You I disagree with, but I think you're engaging in honest
debate. You believe what you're saying, and that's all that's required.
WILLIAMS: Well, I'm glad to hear because, you know, apparently that's what NPR
said is not allowed.
WILLIAMS: That when I say and, you know, this is not even my opinion.
WILLIAMS: It's just I said, you know
GLENN: A feeling.
PAT: It's a feeling.
WILLIAM: This is an honest reaction, you know, from the gut that if I'm at the
gate to get on a plane and I see people dressed in Muslim garb who identify
themselves principally as Muslim, well, after 9/11 I have a little fear in my
heart, Glenn. And so they want to say now, oh, so that means Juan's a bigot.
Come on, man. How am I a bigot? You know the books I've written, Glenn. You know
the things, the stances I've taken. You can disagree with me, but I am not a
imagine. I have to get on your national radio show and sit I mean, this is like
me saying I don't beat my wife, right?
GLENN: Well, I didn't ask you the question. I don't think you're a bigot.
WILLIAMS: Well, I appreciate that but what I'm saying is they are going after my
reputation, they are trying to disparage me not only in terms of my reputation
as a journalist, Glenn. They are suggesting that I'm cuckoo, that I'm a lunatic.
GLENN: I know. How do you
WILLIAMS: You know, the boss says he's got to check with his psychiatrist, it's
between him and his psychiatrist. Now, you talk about getting low, a personal
attack, they are the ones saying that I violated some standards. What kind of
human being standards that?
GLENN: You know, let me ask you this, Juan. When do you think that the other
journalists are going to get this? Because this is the kind of stuff I mean, you
read the stuff about me: I'm crazy, I'm out of control, I'm whatever it is. And
I mean, we don't know each other well, but I think you know me well enough to
know that I'm a reasonable human being. You may disagree with me, but I'm not
the things that people say. When are the people going to see, okay, first they
did it to Glenn Beck and the people at Fox and now they are going after Juan and
anyone else that is associated with Fox, anyone else that even is on their side,
or I shouldn't say their side but has more of their point of view.
GLENN: Than my point of view. When is the rest of the media going wait a minute,
wait a minute, we're in bed with people who don't believe in free speech at all.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know what? This is an interesting dynamic that's taking
place around this storm that I am engulfed in. I thought initially, you know
what, it's just going to be people like you, Glenn, who are going to rally to my
side because you're going to say, you know what, you have been hit and hit
unfairly, I might add, and that's coming from Juan Williams. That's my voice not
being told what to say. Juan just said Glenn gets hit a lot unfairly, okay. But
I thought people like Glenn will say, you know what? Now they are going after
you; they are going to say, hey, you know, this is the kind of thing that they
have been using against us. They call us racists, they say we're irrational,
they say okay. But I was wondering what's going to happen on the left? What's
going to happen among my peers? And remember I've been a journalist, a
professional journalist since I was in college. Been at the Washington Post
since I was 21. I'm now 56?
GLENN: Yeah, but when did you go to Fox and give up journalism?
WILLIAMS: I have been working for Fox since 1997. So I've been here 13 years at
Fox before I went to NPR. So I'm thinking to myself, so is it going to be just a
politically polarizing response where people don't actually think? They just
say, "NPR is left; I'm going to rally to NPR, I'm going to attack Juan; he's not
our kind of guy because you know what? He talks to Glenn Beck." But guess what,
Glenn? The Washington Post editorial page this morning said NPR's wrong.
WILLIAMS: I have the experience now where people are coming up to me who are
lefties and saying, you know, they screwed you, man. That was wrong.
GLENN: But when are they I mean, who's responsible
WILLIAMS: Whoopi Goldberg was on The View yesterday.
GLENN: I know. It's amazing.
WILLIAMS: She said NPR was wrong.
GLENN: So tell me when people are going to draw the connection to the power
players of the Tides Foundation and George Soros in this particular case? It is
George Soros who's, as you said, the puppet master. And all of these you see
what's happening now at Fox. You have the Tides Foundation, moveon.org, Media
Matters, George Soros, plus you have all the other, you know, the unions, Color
For Change, all of these people now boycotting. When will people tie in that,
oh, my gosh, this is, this is the Death Star being built? If you step out of
line, this Death Star will vaporize you?
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I noticed today that Howie Kurtz, the media former
media critic for the Washington Post, he now writes for an online site, said
that NPR's acceptance of George Soros money was corrupting. They should never
have taken that money, that it now betrays a political agenda that calls into
question their journalists. So apparently, guess what, not Looney Juan, not
crazy Glenn. Now we have people who are in the media critic business who are
saying, you know what, NPR, you really have gone beyond the pail. It's not you
know, you have problems with Juan Williams, but you've got a bigger problem in
terms of taking money from a guy who's trying to push a political point of view
and trying to control you and sell his point of view through you.
GLENN: Here's this is a pattern with the uber left. They did it with Shirley
Sherrod. What happens if they now do what they did with Shirley Sherrod with you
and say, oh, sorry; I wasn't involved in that call and we didn't know, and come
back? What do you do?
WILLIAMS: You mean come back to me and say they're sorry or they want to rehire
WILLIAMS: Glenn, look. You know what? They have attacked me as a human being
and, you know, I think earlier in this conversation I talked about some sort of
standard of human decency. So now they want to treat me as a crazy person, talk
about that I need a psychiatrist and they want to suggest somehow that this is
just the tip of the iceberg, that I've always been one of these loose canons and
unpredictable and not rely you know, so they were trying to diminish my standing
as a journalist. That is my craft. That's what I have done. I will stand by what
I have written, by what I have said. Have I ever made mistakes? Yes, I have,
Glenn. But I
GLENN: We all have.
WILLIAMS: I work hard at this business. I care about it and I have tried to
develop trust with people who hear my voice or read my words. That they know
that Juan's trying his best. And now NPR wants to minimize that in service to
somehow protecting and going back and correcting their wrong decisions? I feel
hurt. And I feel like, you know what? They broke the bond of trust with me. When
they fired me, they said, we didn't do anything to you; you crossed the line.
GLENN: Did you see that Media Matters is now calling for Mara Liasson's firing,
termination at NPR as well because she
WILLIAMS: I'm not I don't follow Media Matters but I've heard about this. I
GLENN: No comment on that?
WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, so you know what? Okay. So they have these standards,
right? How come they protect her?
PAT: What were your thoughts on Vivian Schiller yesterday saying that they've
talked to you about have you ever been talked to about things you've said in the
past on Fox by anyone at NPR? Have they warned you about this in the past, Juan?
WILLIAMS: No, they don't like me being on NPR. As I said, they don't like me
talking to Sean Hannity, they don't like me talking to Bill O'Reilly.
PAT: So that's what you've been warned about is not to be on Fox?
WILLIAMS: Right well, no, why are you on Fox, why do you go and talk to these
GLENN: So in other words
WILLIAMS: So the difference with Mara is I think, one, I finally said, you know
what, I don't want you telling me what I where I can have an audience or where I
can talk to somebody, who I can talk to, I don't like it, don't want it. And so
finally I signed a deal that was intended to give them some insulation. So when
I write an op ed piece, when I write a book, I don't have to get their approval.
I can say what I want to say, you know, think as a human being and be honest
with the audience.
GLENN: That's amazing. Juan Williams, congratulations, congratulations on your
new deal. All you have to do is get Soros to come out against you and you make
money. It's amazing, isn't it?
WILLIAMS: Well, believe me, this has not been a pleasure.
GLENN: No, I know that.
WILLIAMS: I've got to process the good part of this because the bad part is what
I'm reacting to emotionally.
GLENN: No, I want you to know, Juan, believe me, I know what it feels like to
have people question your sanity, question your patriotism, question your
motives, to start calling you a danger to society. I know. And no amount of
money is worth it, and I was making light of it and I shouldn't have done that.
WILLIAMS: No, no, I get it.
GLENN: I want to tell you, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, Glenn.
GLENN: Thank you, man, I appreciate it. Juan Williams, now solely of Fox.