RADIOSeptember 13, 2024

Will America’s immigration crisis COLLAPSE us like the Roman Empire?

“No one can deny that the Roman Empire fell apart because it lost its borders.” Author Spencer Klavan joins Glenn to draw the parallels between the fall of Rome and what’s happening now in America and the Western world. But if everyone knows what happened to Rome, why are our leaders flooding our countries with immigrants? And is it still possible to correct our course?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I want to finish up from where we were last hour, on how our country is just being taken apart. Piece by piece.

And they're telling you they're doing it. They're telling you, what the goal is.

But they always deny it. Even though, it's all out in papers. And it's all out on websites. Their websites.

They won't -- they'll always say, that's a conspiracy theorist. But we're now seeing, these conspiracy theory, come true. And it's been bothering me the last couple of days. And, quite honestly, I'm so lazy. I didn't grab Gibbons. And look it up.

But if I remember right, wasn't the -- the decline and fall of the Roman empire?

Didn't it really start to come down. Once they opened the gate to the -- I don't know. The gates to the mongrels. Or the muskrats.

Or the Haitians. Or whoever they let in.

I mean, I know this. Wasn't that the beginning of the end. They let everybody in.

And then they made everybody a Roman citizen. And then Rome didn't. Citizenship must mean anything.

STU: It sounds familiar. I'm no expert on this.

GLENN: That's where I was too.

So I decided to call somebody, who actually knows. Because he's smart.

Spencer Klavan, a books associate editor and author of Light of the Mind, Light of the World.

Spencer, how are you, man?

SPENCER: I'm doing very well, Glenn. Thanks for having me on.

GLENN: Okay. Again, I just have to say, talk town to me a little bit. Not too much. But just a little bit.

Am I right on that? I'm trying to remember, one of the last straws. I thought it was opening up the gates, and making everybody citizens.

SPENCER: Okay. So not only are you right about this, you actually don't even need somebody like gibbon to prove your point.

This is something that basically everybody, even the most liberal scholars of the Roman empire and its history. Nobody can deny, that the Roman empire fell apart. Because it lost its borders.

Its borders were effectively dissolved, by tyrants. And especially by -- I think you're probably thinking of as Capra Calah (phonetic).

GLENN: Yeah.

SPENCER: An edict made everybody a citizen. And this is a guy -- one of the notorious tyrants of history.

Compared during the French revolution to Louis the 16th. Given calls him the common enemy of mankind. So that will tell you a little bit about the sort of people that want to dilute the concept of citizenship.

They always make themselves out to be very magnanimous and generous, and kind.

Whereas, in fact, there's always something in it for them. And that was no different in Rome.

GLENN: So, Spencer, if everybody knows this, what could possibly -- what possibly could be the reason to do this, all across the Western world?

SPENCER: Well, I think like with everything. You have to look for elite interests. In Rome. The problem of citizenship is something they had going back even before the empire, to the days of the republic.

And right from the jump there. When the republic started to fall apart. It was because there wasn't enough land to go around.

The citizens, and those who fought in the army were supposed to get a certain amount of land that they could cultivate as private property. But while they were away at war, the wealthy and the elites, effectively conspired to do an end run around the law. Why?

So that they could have cheap labor, and vast tracks of land.

Terra Cala (phonetic), there are different theories about why he did what he did.

But you don't have to look around too far for reasons why. In fact, there are almost too many reasons why he would have been able to levy taxes on these new citizens. He could have conscripted them into the army.

And all of this came at the expense, and this is important. It came at the expense of the people who were already the Roman citizens. Our word citizen, comes from a Greek word and so does our word city.

So this is a local thing, originally, designed for specific people, who get particular rights, yes.

Things that they can do. Like vote in elections. But also, they get responsibilities. You have to contribute to society. And be committed and devoted to the idea of Rome. The project of Rome.

Once that starts to fall apart, you basically just have the rich and the strong, trying to give out benefits packages, essentially. Goody bags. To whomever they can get on their side. So they can grow their military.

And sustain the military machine. And I think a lot of that, we can see going on, as well, with some of our leaders. Unfortunately.

GLENN: So you're a historian.

You love history. You study history.

How -- how is this time period. Right now. The point where we're at, right now.

Before this election.

How is this going to be looked at, by historians?

SPENCER: It's always hard to write history in the present tense, they say. But if you put a gun to my head. And I had to make a guess. I would say, this is going to be one of those moments, where people look back, and they either say, how could they possibly have let it all go?

What -- what went wrong? What trove them so insane?

And there will be studies written of how we were led up to this point, gradually overtime.

Or -- or we'll -- we'll look back, and we'll say, this was a crisis, like the ones that Rome had faced. Like others had faced in the past.

And we pulled back from the brink.

It's not too late.

Despite the dire situation.

It's not too late to do that.

We're not an edict of territory, just yet. Although, that certainly was the open borders crowd.

And the Kamala Harrises and the Joe Bidens of the world would like.

It's not yet the case. That just anybody under American influence is an American citizen. With all the rights and privileges that that --

GLENN: It's darn close. We're moving in that direction rapidly.

SPENCER: Yeah. You're right about that. So I think we're at a major crossroads with this election.

GLENN: So what -- I mean, now I'm going to ask you to predict, and you feel free to back out. And say, I didn't sign up for this, dude.

What do you see, coming? What does history teach you, that is most likely, coming?

Because I honestly. I can think of a million ways, this falls apart.

SPENCER: Right.

GLENN: I have a hard time finding that very narrow path, especially without God, of where it comes together. And we heal?

SPENCER: I mean, it's really important that you mentioned God, I think, and the Christian God, specifically. Whom the Romans, until later on in their history, did not worship.

Because that is something that makes us distinctive.

And, you know, Glenn, you've asked me this question a couple of times. Are there any examples of people that fall out of these crisis?

And it's hard, because, in fact, when you end the concept of citizenship. When you destroy your borders. You have destroyed, your country, by definition.

So it's not like we're not flirting with the sorts of things, that bring republics, and empires down.

But I will say, that whereas, I can't think of any example from history, of civilization. That wound back the clock.

That undid these problems.

It is possible in history, to correct course.

And move forward, in the world that we live in. In a better direction.

And I think for us, as Americans. And as a nation that was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. The key to that, is our belief in the universal creation of man, in the image of God.

Now, that might sound a little ironic. Since I'm talking about closing down our borders.

And taking care of our citizens. And the open borders crowd. Likes to make use of Christian slogans. To pretend that they're loving their neighbors. They're loving everybody.

But we're limited human beings. And the Christian in front of us, is not how we extend every benefits of the whole world. It's not in our power.

The question is, how do we love one another as American citizens. And our superpower. That the Romans did not have, is racial assimilation. If we're able to get a grip on our border

If we dwell on this election. And other elections going forward. Then we can accommodate some of the things that have gone down the pike.

And have a better track record, than any country in history. At course correcting and recalibrating with exactly these types of issues.

But the first thing, we have to understand what we're about.

And that's not the world. And not humanity in general.

But America, and the humans that live here.

GLENN: What book are you writing right now?

SPENCER: I mean, finished a book that's coming out in October. You mentioned this. Light of the mind.

Light of the world. Which I'm really excited for people to read.

It comes out in October.

And this is a story about the history of science, told from a religious perspective.

Because I think people have a sense, that there's just -- no way you can be a smart, rational person, who believes in science, and also believes in God.

And what I'm saying, in this book is. Not only is that wrong. It's also really outdated. And that a sophisticated, modern understanding of where science comes from.

And where it's going. Points us back to the truth.

And the God of the Bible.

So that's the book.

And it will be out in October.

GLENN: Fantastic.

Preorder it now. Light of mine. Light of the world. Do me a favor.

Send it to me. Because I want to have you on. But I want to -- Reddit, you know, before I talk to you so we can have an intelligence conversation on it.

Spencer, thank you so much. Say hi to your dad for me. Spencer Klavan, Andrew Klavan's son. And, boy, if -- if Andrew ever feels like, I don't know if I did a good job as a dad.

Sit and talk to Spencer for a while. It's pretty amazing.

Shocking train video: Passengers wait while woman bleeds out

Surveillance footage of the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska in Charlotte, NC, reveals that the other passengers on the train took a long time to help her. Glenn, Stu, and Jason debate whether they were right or wrong to do so.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: You know, I'm -- I'm torn on how I feel about the people on the train.

Because my first instinct is, they did nothing! They did nothing! Then my -- well, sit down and, you know -- you know, you're going to be judged. So be careful on judging others.

What would I have done? What would I want my wife to do in that situation?

STU: Yeah. Are those two different questions, by the way.

GLENN: Yeah, they are.

STU: I think they go far apart from each other. What would I want myself to do. I mean, it's tough to put yourself in a situation. It's very easy to watch a video on the internet and talk about your heroism. Everybody can do that very easily on Twitter. And everybody is.

You know, when you're in a vehicle that doesn't have an exit with a guy who just murdered somebody in front of you, and has a dripping blood off of a knife that's standing 10 feet away from you, 15 feet away from you.

There's probably a different standard there, that we should all kind of consider. And maybe give a little grace to what I saw at least was a woman, sitting across the -- the -- the aisle.

I think there is a difference there. But when you talk about that question. Those two questions are definitive.

You know, I know what I would want myself to do. I would hope I would act in a way that didn't completely embarrass myself afterward.

But I also think, when I'm thinking of my wife. My advice to my wife would not be to jump into the middle of that situation at all costs. She might do that anyway. She actually is a heck of a lot stronger than I am.

But she might do it anyway.

GLENN: How pathetic, but how true.

STU: Yes. But that would not be my advice to her.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: Now, maybe once the guy has certainly -- is out of the area. And you don't think the moment you step into that situation. He will turn around and kill you too. Then, of course, obviously. Anything you can do to step in.

Not that there was much anyone on the train could do.

I mean, I don't think there was an outcome change, no matter what anyone on that train did.

Unfortunately.

But would I want her to step in?

Of course. If she felt she was safe, yes.

Think about, you said, your wife. Think about your daughter. Your daughter is on that train, just watching someone else getting murdered like that. Would you advise your daughter to jump into a situation like that?

That girl sitting across the aisle was somebody's daughter. I don't know, man.

JASON: I would. You know, as a dad, would I advise.

Hmm. No.

As a human being, would I hope that my daughter or my wife or that I would get up and at least comfort that woman while she's dying on the floor of a train?

Yeah.

I would hope that my daughter, my son, that I would -- and, you know, I have more confidence in my son or daughter or my wife doing something courageous more than I would.

But, you know, I think I have a more realistic picture of myself than anybody else.

And I'm not sure that -- I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I know what I would hope I would do. But I also know what I fear I would do. But I would have hoped that I would have gotten up and at least tried to help her. You know, help her up off the floor. At least be there with her, as she's seeing her life, you know, spill out in under a minute.

And that's it other thing we have to keep in mind. This all happened so rapidly.

A minute is -- will seem like a very long period of time in that situation. But it's a very short period of time in real life.

STU: Yeah. You watch the video, Glenn. You know, I don't need the video to -- to change my -- my position on this.

But at his seem like there was a -- someone who did get there, eventually, to help, right? I saw someone seemingly trying to put pressure on her neck.

GLENN: Yeah. And tried to give her CPR.

STU: You know, no hope at that point. How long of a time period would you say that was?

Do you know off the top of your head?

GLENN: I don't know. I don't know. I know that we watched the video that I saw. I haven't seen past 30 seconds after she --

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: -- is down. And, you know, for 30 seconds nothing is happening. You know, that is -- that is not a very long period of time.

STU: Right.

GLENN: In reality.

STU: And especially, I saw the pace he was walking. He certainly can't be -- you know, he may have left the actual train car by 30 seconds to a minute. But he wasn't that far away. Like he was still in visual.

He could still turn around and look and see what's going on at that point. So certainly still a threat is my point. He has not, like, left the area. This is not that type of situation.

You know, I -- look, as you point out, I think if I could be super duper sexist for a moment here, sort of my dividing line might just be men and women.

You know, I don't know if it's that a -- you're not supposed to say that, I suppose these days. But, like, there is a difference there. If I'm a man, you know, I would be -- I would want my son to jump in on that, I suppose. I don't know if he could do anything about it. But you would expect at least a grown man to be able to go in there and do something about it. A woman, you know, I don't know.

Maybe I'm -- I hope --

GLENN: Here's the thing I -- here's the thing that I -- that causes me to say, no. You should have jumped in.

And that is, you know, you've already killed one person on the train. So you've proven that you're a killer. And anybody who would have screamed and got up and was with her, she's dying. She's dying. Get him. Get him.

Then the whole train is responsible for stopping that guy. You know. And if you don't stop him, after he's killed one person, if you're not all as members of that train, if you're not stopping him, you know, the person at the side of that girl would be the least likely to be killed. It would be the ones that are standing you up and trying to stop him from getting back to your daughter or your wife or you.

JASON: There was a -- speaking of men and women and their roles in this. There was a video circling social media yesterday. In Sweden. There was a group of officials up on a stage. And one of the main. I think it was health official woman collapses on stage. Completely passes out.

All the men kind of look away. Or I don't know if they're looking away. Or pretending that they didn't know what was going on. There was another woman standing directly behind the woman passed out.

Immediately springs into action. Jumps on top. Grabs her pant leg. Grabs her shoulder. Spins her over and starts providing care.

What did she have that the other guys did not? Or women?

She was a sheepdog. There is a -- this is my issue. And I completely agree with Stu. I completely agree with you. There's some people that do not respond this way. My issue is the proportion of sheepdogs versus people that don't really know how to act. That is diminishing in western society. And American society.

We see it all the time in these critical actions. I mean, circumstances.

There are men and women, and it's actually a meme. That fantasize about hoards of people coming to attack their home and family. And they sit there and say, I've got it. You guys go. I'm staying behind, while I smoke my cigarette and wait for the hoards to come, because I will sacrifice myself. There are men and women that fantasize of block my highway. Go ahead. Block my highway. I'm going to do something about it. They fantasize about someone holding up -- not a liquor store. A convenience store or something. Because they will step in and do something. My issue now is that proportion of sheepdogs in society is disappearing. Just on statistical fact, there should be one within that train car, and there were none.

STU: Yeah. I mean --

JASON: They did not respond.

STU: We see what happens when they do, with Daniel Penny. Our society tries to vilify them and crush their existence. Now, there weren't that many people on that train. Right?

At least on that car. At least it's limited. I only saw three or four people there, there may have been more. I agree with you, though. Like, you see what happens when we actually do have a really recent example of someone doing exactly what Jason wants and what I would want a guy to do. Especially a marine to step up and stop this from happening. And the man was dragged by our legal system to a position where he nearly had to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I mean, I -- it's insanity. Thankfully, they came to their senses on that one.

GLENN: Well, the difference between that one and this one though is that the guy was threatening. This one, he killed somebody.

STU: Yeah. Right. Well, but -- I think -- but it's the opposite way. The debate with Penny, was should he have recognize that had this person might have just been crazy and not done anything?

Maybe. He hadn't actually acted yet. He was just saying things.

GLENN: Yeah. Well --

STU: He didn't wind up stabbing someone. This is a situation where these people have already seen what this man will do to you, even when you don't do anything to try to stop him. So if this woman, who is, again, looks to be an average American woman.

Across the aisle. Steps in and tries to do something. This guy could easily turn around and just make another pile of dead bodies next to the one that already exists.

And, you know, whether that is an optimal solution for our society, I don't know that that's helpful.

In that situation.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Max Lucado on Overcoming Grief in Dark Times | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 266

Disclaimer: This episode was filmed prior to the assassination of Charlie Kirk. But Glenn believes Max's message is needed now more than ever.
The political world is divided, constantly at war with itself. In many ways, our own lives are not much different. Why do we constantly focus on the negative? Why are we in pain? Where is God amid our anxiety and fear? Why can’t we ever seem to change? Pastor Max Lucado has found the solution: Stop thinking like that! It may seem easier said than done, but Max joins Glenn Beck to unpack the three tools he describes in his new book, “Tame Your Thoughts,” that make it easy for us to reset the way we think back to God’s factory settings. In this much-needed conversation, Max and Glenn tackle everything from feeling doubt as a parent to facing unfair hardships to ... UFOs?! Plus, Max shares what he recently got tattooed on his arm.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Are Demonic Forces to Blame for Charlie Kirk, Minnesota & Charlotte Killings?

This week has seen some of the most heinous actions in recent memory. Glenn has been discussing the growth of evil in our society, and with the assassination of civil rights leader Charlie Kirk, the recent transgender shooter who took the lives of two children at a Catholic school, and the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska, how can we make sense of all this evil? On today's Friday Exclusive, Glenn speaks with BlazeTV host of "Strange Encounters" Rick Burgess to discuss the demon-possessed transgender shooter and the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk. Rick breaks down the reality of demon possession and how individuals wind up possessed. Rick and Glenn also discuss the dangers of the grotesque things we see online and in movies, TV shows, and video games on a daily basis. Rick warns that when we allow our minds to be altered by substances like drugs or alcohol, it opens a door for the enemy to take control. A supernatural war is waging in our society, and it’s a Christian’s job to fight this war. Glenn and Rick remind Christians of what their first citizenship is.