RADIOJanuary 30, 2023

Attorney: THIS is what’s DEEPLY wrong with new ATF gun rule

A new ATF ruling may turn as many as 40 MILLION Americans into felons. The rule, which concerns firearm pistol braces, doesn’t leave law-abiding gun owners with many options to obey: Either destroy the firearm, turn it in, or apply for a tax stamp that likely would take years to receive — within the next 120 days. Stephen Stamboulieh, Attorney for Gun Owners of America, joins Glenn to explain exactly what’s going on at the ATF, how YOU might avoid felony charges if affected, and specifically what it is about this new ruling makes him ‘wholly uncomfortable.’

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: We have Stephen Stamboulieh, on the phone with us. Stephen, welcome to the program. How are you, sir?

STEPHEN: I'm doing well. It's an honor to talk to you, Glenn, and even Stu.

STU: Wow. Wow.

GLENN: And even Stu.

STU: Don't lower yourself, Stephen. It's terrible.

GLENN: I've lost so much respect for you already. Hey, I watched your YouTube show, I think it was from the shot show last week.

STEPHEN: Yes.

GLENN: And I am trying to even understand what is going on, with the pistol brace rule. Because this could make 40 million Americans felons.

STEPHEN: Right.

GLENN: Has -- has this -- is this -- is this in effect now, as the clock started to tick. Where are we on this?

STEPHEN: Okay. So on Friday the 13th, they put out this final rule. But did not publish it in the Federal Register. I got back late Friday night.

I have not even checked the Federal Register, to see if it's, quote, published in the Federal Register.

But publishing it in the Federal Register, starts the clock ticking for you to do the things you need to do, to either remain compliant with the law.
Or their new law, that they just created.

Because, well, they hate all of us. Or, you know, turn in your rifle. Your pistol, whatever.

Or just ignore it, and become a felon. And go spend some time.

GLENN: Jeez.

Okay. So it could have started? We don't know yet. We can find out.

Can you see -- how do you check the Federal Register? I don't even -- how do you do that? Can the average person do that?

STEPHEN: Yeah. And that's exactly what they say. Is the average person has -- their -- their -- I can't even remember the exact language. But once it's published in the Federal Register, everyone is just deemed to be on notice, that it's been published on the Federal Register. And have knowledge of what's in the Federal Register. Even though most people don't have this masochistic streak, where they want to punish themselves by reading thousands of pages of bureaucratic regulations.

GLENN: Correct.

STU: I'm just about -- I'm on the page to search for it.

And there's 908,512 documents, which surely, I know everything that is in those documents.

GLENN: Well, you would if you were responsible and you check it every morning, like I do.

So what do you search for in this? Do you just search for, you know, bad guns?

STU: Evil gun.

GLENN: The -- the stabilizing braces?

STEPHEN: Stabilizing braces, correct.

GLENN: Okay. Look for stabilizing braces. Okay.

So once this has been published, we have 120 days to either get rid of the gun. Let me actually read this to you. This was the way it was pushed today.

Let's see, that you can get rid of the brace. Destroy -- get the tax stamp. Which is impossible. And you can explain that later. At least in time to comply.

Or destroy the pistol brace. Or you can -- or you can turn your if one into the ATF. I don't even know where the ATF is. Or you can go to prison.

So can we destroy the pistol brace?

STEPHEN: So they say that you can destroy the pistol brace. And the ATF has various methods of how you're supposed to destroy it. I mean, the easiest thing would be to crush it up. Throw it away, right?

But, yeah. That is one of your options. You can absolutely destroy your firearm, if you're so inclined to do. And you can 100 percent turn in your firearms to the ATF. I'm sure they would appreciate free guns.

GLENN: Oh, free guns. Last thing.

STEPHEN: Right. Well, for them. Right. The other thing they tell us to do, is since they're so kind. And so gracious. They're going to allow us this one time opportunity to get a free tax stamp. And, Glenn, you spoke about how hard it was to get a tax stamp. You know, you're looking at over -- over a year wait.

I mean, it's like a year wait right now. Before they want to add --

GLENN: 40 million. Right.

STEPHEN: Right. And if you take the ATF number, it's 3 million. If you take congressional research services, you know, bipartisan. They say up to 40 million.

Let's go with 40 million, right? Or anywhere in between, it doesn't matter. They're going to over -- just completely inundate the system with people trying to comply, right?

Because most citizens want to comply with the law, so they don't get their door kicked in. Their dog shot. And their gun seized. So, yeah. It's not going to happen within a year. I mean, maybe two years.

GLENN: Maybe. And you are a felon, if you have it, in those two years. Correct?

Even if they apply.

STEPHEN: So the way they say this. And this is what gives me so much heartburn over this. They're saying, we were wrong when we told you over and over and over again, that a braced pistol is not a short-barreled rifle.

It's always been a short-barreled rifle. We just said the wrong thing. And it's our bad, sorry.

So you're a felon if you have it now. But since we're such nice people. If you go through the process of registering it, right?

So you go and you do your E form one, or your paper form. Whatever. And you submit this to the ETF, along with your photographs and your fingerprints. Your address. And a picture of a firearm.

We will deem you to be in compliance, even though you have a short-barreled rifle. Because you've said it's a short barreled rifle.

Because they said it's a short-barreled rifle, and you don't have a tax stamp for it.

You are for saying in violation of the law.

But they're going to use their enforcement discretion to not come after you, assuming you do the things they tell you to do.

GLENN: Well, the ATF has also warned, reading from the article.

Americans with Pistol Braces are likely already violating the National Firearms Act by possessing an unregistered rifle with a barrel less than 16 inches.

To they're -- they're already saying, yeah. Even if you're doing all this, you're probably already a felon. This is madness.

STEPHEN: You're already committing the crime. You've committed the crime, by having, with their new definition, a brace pistol that fits into one of their multiple subjective criteria. You are committing the felony now.

And that's why they use enforcement discretion. Because you only use enforcement discretion, if you're violating the law. There's no need to use enforcement discretion, if you're not in violation of any law.

Because there's nothing to enforce.

GLENN: So let me -- so what do we do?

Because I don't think -- I mean, this can't pass a test in the courts.

I mean, it would maybe in California or New York.

But it's not going to -- even the ninth circuit, would probably even overturn this. Do we have time -- what do you do? Do you just sit here and wait it out?

STEPHEN: You know, that's a good question. What do you do? I'm wholly uncomfortable admitting to the ATF, that I have committed a felony, even though they said, they're not going to prosecute me. And their enforcement discretion. Because that changes. You've seen from almost everything the ATF does. They constantly change their minds. Along at the bump stocks. Look at the 80 percent lowers. Now look at the pistol brace. They have a demonstrable history of being wrong, and changing their mind on everything. So what's to stop them from changing their mind on enforcement discretion or saying, well, Mr. Beck, you just didn't do it good enough, and now we're going to prosecute you.

So, I mean, to answer your question, what did you do?

I mean, there's going to be some organization that will be suing them on this. Pretty soon.

GLENN: Okay. I can't imagine what that organization would be. But...

Okay.

STEPHEN: Right. Right. It's a secret to everybody.

GLENN: Yeah. It wouldn't be the gun owners of America, I'll tell you that right now.

Okay. So some organization is going to be suing them.

And how is that -- how long is that going to take?

STEPHEN: Well, it depends on -- on -- on -- oh, gosh.

So many different things.

You know, we would -- the organization would absolutely seek a temporary restraining order in a preliminary injunction throughout the litigation. Right?

So if that organization could get the rule held in, you know, abeyance law.

The court is deciding whether or not, the ATF can willy-nilly change its mind on everything.

Within 120 days, we would expect to have some kind of answer.

And 120 days is plenty enough time for the court to decide, whether or not to hold -- hold a rule, and, you know, just enjoying it, pending litigation.

I mean, it's plenty of time for them to do that.

STEPHEN: And it gives them 120 days. And it gives you lots of opportunity, in case they go against you. Can you give -- like, for instance, I live in two different counties. And I love my sheriffs.

And, you know, until this thing is worked out. Can I just go to my sheriff and say, here take this.

You can use this.

If it turns out to be a felony to own it, you guys take it. And you guys use it.

But I -- I don't want to possess it.

Because I am -- I would be the perfect target. You know what I mean?

They're not going to throw 40 million people in prison. But they will throw maybe a couple of hundred.

And that will teach everyone else. You can do this to them. We're coming for you.

STEPHEN: Right. You can absolutely turn it into your sheriff for, quote, safekeeping. While you're paying attention to what we're doing in the courts, to see if we're successful in the courts. I don't know why we wouldn't be.

I mean, this is just so --

GLENN: Obvious.

STEPHEN: It's like the definition of arbitrary and capricious. If you open up a dictionary, it would have a picture of the ATF right there.

GLENN: Yeah. But you would also have -- if this passes, then they can say, all semiautomatics.

I mean, Joe Biden is already saying, semiautomatic handguns are a problem. There's no use for them. That's every gun sold, unless you're buying an old western gun.

STEPHEN: Right. And that's funny that you say that. It just jogged my memory. I think it was the Sixth Circuit GOA bump stock case, the senior deputy counsel for DOJ could not answer whether or not all semiautomatic firearms were machine guns. Like all AR-15s.

GLENN: Right. Right.

STEPHEN: When the court asked him, h's like, I'm not prepared to answer them. And I thought, well, by God, that's a really easy question. No. The answer is no.

GLENN: Right. Right. But if you don't answer it now, you can answer it when you do it in a rule.

I mean, is this the first time that you've seen something that hasn't had a grandfather clause in it?

STEPHEN: No. Because look at bump stocks, right? After Trump directed the DOJ and the ATF to basically strike bump stocks with a pen. You know, all of them, turn them in. Mr. and Mrs. America. You're now felons.

And you've always -- this bump stock. Even though we said, prior to this, it was legal. One hundred percent legal, not a machine gun.

I know this is a common theme with the ATF.

We were wrong. And they are actually machine guns, and we are going to use our enforcement discretion, not to come after you.

However, you can't register them, because 18 USC 9220 does not allow you to have new machine guns, just prior to 1986 machine guns.

GLENN: Okay. So --

STEPHEN: You can still own a machine gun.

GLENN: Does the fact that that wasn't challenged, or did it lose --

STU: Can we say the fact that Republicans have rolled over as Trump did this and said nothing about it.

GLENN: Right. Does that hurt us on this now?

STU: Now there's more precedent for it.

GLENN: Well, what's great about the bump stock stuff, is in the Sixth Circuit, GOA 1 at the panel.

At like the three-judge panel stage, and basically, the court really just called out the ATF. And said, you can't do this. And then when -- basically, the full court. They evenly split, and an even split say bad thing. If you lose in the trial court.

Because what it does, is it affirms the trial court ruling, because the -- the court couldn't free on how it was. However, a Fifth Circuit came in for the win a couple weeks ago in the cargo case.

And basically, involved 13-3, told the ATF, bump stocks are not machine guns.

So, you know -- you know, your move to ATF.

So the circuits are split on that because all of the different circuits can't agree. And what does that do?

It sets you up for the perfect Supreme Court case.

Because you can't have Texas, Mississippi, and Louisiana, apply one federal law one way, and then the other states applying it a different way.

So the Supreme Court is going to have to step in and resolve that circuit split. Because that's a pretty big deal.

STU: Of course, all these companies that are making these things are now out of business. Right?

You know, three years down the line.

Yeah. It's like -- this is the process, which is the punishment half the time.

GLENN: So we've been talking about Stephen Stamboulieh. And he's with the Gun Owners of America.

You can follow all of the information at gunowners.org. Gunowners.org. Or you can follow Stephen on his Twitter handle @Stambo2A. I like -- Stambo2A.

Stephen, thank you so much, I appreciate it. We'll talk to you again.

STEPHEN: Yes, sir. Take care.

GLENN: You bet. Buh-bye.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

How to Find God in a Divided World | Max Lucado & Glenn Beck

Glenn Beck sits down with beloved pastor and author Max Lucado for a deep conversation about faith, humility, and finding unity in a divided world. Together, they reflect on the importance of principles over politics, why humility opens the door to true dialogue, and how centering life on God brings clarity and peace. Lucado shares stories of faith, the dangers of a “prosperity gospel,” and the powerful reminder that life is not about making a big deal of ourselves, but about making a big deal of God. This uplifting conversation will inspire you to re-center your life, strengthen your faith, and see how humility and love can transform even the most divided times.

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with Max Lucado HERE

Bill O'Reilly predicts THIS will be Charlie Kirk's legacy

Bill O’Reilly joins Glenn Beck with a powerful prediction about Charlie Kirk’s legacy. Evil tried to destroy his movement, Bill says, but – as his new book, “Confronting Evil,” lays out – evil will just end up destroying itself once more…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Mr. Bill O'Reilly, welcome to the program, how are you, sir?

BILL: Good, Beck, thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. How have you been?

GLENN: Last week was really tough. I know it was tough for you and everybody else.

But, you know -- I haven't -- I haven't seen anything.

BILL: Family okay? All of that?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Family is okay. Family is okay.

BILL: Good question good. That's the most important thing.

GLENN: It is.

So, Bill, what do you make of this whole Charlie Kirk thing. What happened, and where are we headed?

BILL: So my analysis is different for everybody else, and those that know me for so long. About a year ago, I was looking for a topic -- it was a contract to do another book. And I said, you know what's happening in America, and around the world. Was a rise in evil. It takes a year to research and write these books.

And not since the 1930s, had I seen that happen, to this extent. And in the 1930s, of course, you would have Tojo and Hitler and Mussolini and Franco and all these guys. And it led to 100 million dead in World War II. The same thing, not to the extent.

But the same thing was --
GLENN: Yet.
BILL: -- bubbling in the world, and in the United States.

I decided to write a book. The book comes out last Tuesday. And on Wednesday, Putin lobs missiles into Poland.

Ultra dangerous.

And a few hours later, Charlie Kirk is assassinated.

And one of the interviewers said to me last week, your -- your book is haunting. Is haunting.

And I think that's extremely accurate. Because that's what evil does.

And in the United States, we have so many distractions. The social media.

People create around their own lives.

Sports. Whatever it may be. That we look away.

Now, Charlie Kirk was an interesting fellow. Because at a very young age, he was mature enough to understand that he wanted to take a stand in favor of traditional America and Judeo Christian philosophy.

He decided that he wanted to do that.

You know, and when I was 31 or whatever, I was lucky I wasn't in the penitentiary. And I believe you were in the penitentiary.
(laughter)
So he was light years ahead of us.

GLENN: Yes, he was.

BILL: And he put it into motion. All right? Now, most good people, even if you disagree with what Mr. Kirk says on occasion, you admire that. That's the spirit of America. That you have a belief system, that you go out and try to promote that belief system, for the greater good of the country. That's what it is.

That's what Charlie Kirk did.

And he lost his life.

By doing it!

So when you essentially break all of this down. You take the emotion away, all right?

Which I have to do, in my job. You see it as another victory for evil.

But it really isn't.

And this is the ongoing story.

This is the most important story. So when you read my book, Confronting Evil, you'll see that all of these heinous individuals, Putin's on the cover. Mao. Hitler.

Ayatollah Khomeini. And then there are 14 others inside the book. They all destroy themselves.

Evil always destroys itself. But it takes so many people with it. So this shooter destroyed his own family.

And -- and Donald Trump, I talked to him about it last week in Yankee stadium. And Trump is a much different guy than most people think.

GLENN: He is.

JASON: He destroyed his own mother and father and his two brothers.

That's what he did. In addition to the Kirk family!

So evil spreads. Now, if Americans pay attention and come to the conclusion that I just stated, it will be much more difficult for evil to operate openly.

And that's what I think is going to happen.

There's going to be a ferocious backlash against the progressive left in particular.

To stop it, and I believe that is what Mr. Kirk's legacy is going to be.

GLENN: I -- I agree with you on all of these fronts.

I wonder though, you know, it took three, or if you count JFK, four assassinations in the '60s, to confront the evil if you will.

Before people really woke up and said, enough is enough!

And then you have the big Jesus revolution after that.

Is -- I hate to say this. But is -- as far gone as we are, is one assassination enough to wake people up?

JOHN: Some people. Some people will never wake up.

They just don't want to live in the real world, Beck. And it's never been easier to do that with the social media and the phones and the computers.

And you're never going to get them back.

But you don't need them. So let's just be very realistic here on the Glenn Beck show.

Let's run it down.

The corporate media is finished.

In America. It's over.

And you will see that play out the next five years.

Because the corporate media invested so much of its credibility into hating Donald Trump.

And the hate is the key word.

You will find this interesting, Beck. For the first time in ten years, I've been invited to do a major thing on CBS, today.

I will do it GE today. With major Garrett.

GLENN: Wow.

BILL: Now, that only happened because Skydance bought CBS. And Skydance understands the brand CBS is over, and they will have to rehabilitate the whole thing. NBC has not come to that conclusion yet, but it will have to.

And ABC just does the weather. I mean, that's all they care about. Is it snowing in Montana? Okay? The cables are all finished. Even Fox.

Once Trump leaves the stage, there's nowhere for FNC to go. Because they've invested so much in Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

So the fact of the matter is, the corporate media is over in America. That takes a huge cudgel out of the hands of the progressive movement.

Because the progressive movement was dependent on the corporate media to advance its cause. That's going to end, Beck.

GLENN: Well, I would hope that you're right.

Let me ask you about --

BILL: When am I wrong?

When am I wrong?

You've known me for 55 years. When have I been wrong?

GLENN: Okay. All right. All right. We're not here to argue things like that.

So tell me about Skydance. Because isn't Skydance Chinese?

BILL: No! It's Ellison. Larry Ellison, the second richest guy in the world. He owns Lanai and Hawaii, the big tech guy and his son is running it.

GLENN: Yeah, okay.

I though Skydance. I thought that was -- you know them.

BILL: Yeah.

And they -- they're not ideological, but they were as appalled as most of us who pay attention at the deterioration of the network presentations.

So --

GLENN: You think that they could.

BILL: 60 Minutes used to be the gold standard.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

BILL: And it just -- it -- you know, you know, I don't know if you watch it anymore.

GLENN: I don't either.

So do you think they can actually turn CBS around, or is it just over?

BILL: I don't know. It's very hard to predict, because so many people now bail. I've got a daughter 26, and a son, 22.

They never, ever watched network television.

And you've got -- it's true. Right?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

They don't watch --

BILL: They're not going to watch The Voice. The dancing with this. The juggling with that. You know, I think they could do a much better job in their news presentations.

GLENN: Yeah. Right.

BILL: Because what they did, is banish people like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

Same voices, with huge followings.

Huge!

All right?

We couldn't get on there.

That's why Colbert got fired. Because Colbert wouldn't -- refused to put on any non-progressive voice, when they were talking about the country.

GLENN: I know.

BILL: Well, it's not -- I'm censoring it.

GLENN: Yeah, but it's not that he was fired because he wouldn't do that. He was fired because that led to horrible ratings. Horrible ratings.

BILL: Yes, it was his defiance.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: Fallon has terrible ratings and so does Kimmel. But Colbert was in your face, F you, to the people who were signing his paycheck.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: Look, evil can only exist if the mechanisms of power are behind it.

And that's when you read the front -- I take them one by one. And Putin is the most important chapter by far.

GLENN: Why?

BILL: Because Putin would use nuclear weapon.

He wouldn't. He's a psychopath.

And I'm -- on Thursday night, I got a call from the president's people saying, would I meet the president at Yankee stadium for the 9/11 game?

And I said, when a president calls and asks you to meet them, sure.

GLENN: I'll be there. What time?

BILL: It will take me three days to get into Yankee stadium, on Long Island. But I'll start now.

GLENN: Especially because the president is coming. But go ahead.

BILL: Anyway, that was a very, I think that Mr. Trump values my opinion. And it was -- we did talk about Putin.

And the change in Putin. And I had warned him, that Putin had changed from the first administration, where Trump controlled Putin to some extent.

Now he's out of control. Because that's what always happens.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: It happened with Hitler. It happened with Mao. It happened with the ayatollah. It happened with Stalin. Right now. They get worse and worse and worse and worse. And then they blow up.

And that's where Putin is! But he couldn't do any of that, without the assent of the Russian people. They are allowing him to do this, to kill women and children. A million Russian casualties for what! For what! Okay?

So that's why this book is just in the stratosphere. And I was thinking object, oh. Because people want to understand evil, finally. Finally.

They're taking a hard look at it, and the Charlie Kirk assassination was an impetus to do that.

GLENN: Yeah. And I think it's also an impetus to look at the good side.

I mean, I think Charlie was just not a neutral -- a neutral character. He was a force for good. And for God.

And I think that -- that combination is almost the Martin Luther King combination. Where you have a guy who is speaking up for civil rights.

But then also, speaking up for God. And speaking truth, Scripturally.

And I think that combination still, strangely, I wouldn't have predicted it. But strangely still works here in America, and I think it's changed everything.

Bill, it's always food to talk to you. Thank you so much for being on. I appreciate it.

It's Bill O'Reilly. The name of the book, you don't want to miss. Is confronting evil. And he takes all of these really, really bad guys on. One by one. And shows you, what happens if you don't do something about it. Confronting evil. Bill O'Reilly.

And you can find it at BillO'Reilly.com.

The difference between debate and celebrating death

There’s a big difference between firing someone, like a teacher, for believing children shouldn’t undergo trans surgery and firing a teacher who celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. Glenn Beck explains why the latter is NOT “cancel culture.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I got an email from somebody that says, Glenn, in the wake of Charlie's assassination, dozens of teachers, professors and professionals are being suspended or fired for mocking, or even celebrating Charlie Kirk's death.

Critics say conservatives are now being hypocritical because you oppose cancel culture. But is this the same as rose an losing her job over a crude joke. Or is it celebrating murder, and that's something more serious?

For many, this isn't about cancellation it's about trust. If a teacher is entrusted with children or a doctor entrusted with patients, publicly celebrates political violence, have they not yet disqualified themselves from those roles? Words matter. But cheering a death is an action. Is there any consequence for this? Yes. There is.

So let's have that conversation here for a second.

Is every -- is every speech controversy the same?

The answer to that is clearly no.

I mean, we've seen teachers and pastors and doctors and ordinary citizens lose their job now, just for saying they don't believe children under 18 should undergo transgender surgeries. Okay? Lost their job. Chased out.

That opinion, whether you agree or disagree is a moral and medical judgment.

And it is a matter of policy debate. It is speech in the public square.

I have a right to say, you're mutilating children. Okay. You have a right to say, no. We're not. This is the best practices. And then we can get into the silences of it. And we don't shout down the other side.

Okay? Now, on the other hand, you have Charlie Kirk's assassination. And we've seen teachers and professors go online and be celebrate.

Not criticize. Not argue policy. But celebrate that someone was murdered.

Some have gone so far and said, it's not a tragedy. It's a victory. Somebody else, another professor said, you reap what you sow.

Well, let me ask you: Are these two categories of free speech the same?

No! They're not.

Here's the difference. To say, I believe children should not be allowed to have gender surgeries, before 18. That is an attempt, right or wrong. It doesn't matter which side you are.

That is an attempt to protect life. Protect children. And guide society.

It's entering the debate about the role of medicine. The right of parents. And the boundaries of childhood. That's what that is about. To say Charlie Kirk's assassination is a good thing, that's not a debate. That's not even an idea. That's rejoicing in violence. It's glorifying death.

There's no place in a civil society for that kind of stuff. There's not. And it's a difference that actually matters.

You know, our Founders fought for free speech because they believed as Jefferson said, that air can be tolerated where truth is left free to combat it.

So I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, at all. I don't think you do either. I hope you don't. Otherwise, you should go back to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Error can be tolerated where truth is left to be free to combat it.

But when speech shifts from debating ideas to celebrating death, doesn't that cease to be the pursuit of truth and instead, just become a glorification of evil?

I know where I stand on that one. Where do you stand?

I mean, if you go back and you look at history, in colonial matter -- in colonial America, if you were to go against the parliament and against the king, those words were dangerous. They were called treason. But they were whys. They were arguments about liberty and taxation and the rights of man.

And the Founders risked their lives against the dictator to say those things.

Now, compare that to France in 1793.

You Thomas Paine, one of or -- one of our founder kind of. On the edges of our founders.

He thought that what was happening in France is exactly like the American Revolution.

Washington -- no. It wasn't.

There the crowds. They didn't gather to argue. Okay? They argued to cheer the guillotine they didn't want the battle of ideas.

They wanted blood. They wanted heads to roll.

And roll they did. You know, until the people who were screaming for the heads to roll, shouted for blood, found that their own heads were rolling.

Then they turned around on that one pretty quickly.

Think of Rome.

Cicero begged his countrymen to preserve the republic through reason, law, and debate. Then what happened?

The mob started cheering assassinations.

They rejoiced that enemies were slaughtered.

They were being fed to the lions.

And the republic fell into empire.

And liberty was lost!

Okay. So now let me bring this back to Charlie Kirk here for a second.

If there's a professor that says, I don't believe children should have surgeries before adulthood, is that cancel culture, when they're fired?

Yes! Yes, it is.

Because that is speech this pursuit of truth.

However imperfect, it is speech meant to protect children, not to harm them. You also cannot be fired for saying, I disagree with that.

If you are telling, I disagree with that. And I will do anything to shut you down including assassination! Well, then, that's a different story.

What I teacher says, I'm glad Charlie Kirk is dead, is that cancel culture, if they're fired?

Or is that just society saying, you know, I don't think I can trust my kid to -- to that guy.

Or that woman.

I know, that's not an enlightening mind.

Somebody who delights in political murder.

I don't want them around my children! Scripture weighs in here too.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. Matthew.

What does it reveal about the heart of a teacher who celebrates assassination?

To me, you go back to Scripture. Whoa unto them that call good evil -- evil good and good evil.

A society that will shrug on speech like this, say society that has lost its moral compass.

And I believe we still have a moral compass.

Now, our free speech law doesn't protect both. Absolutely. Under law. Absolutely.

Neither one of them should go to jail.

Neither should be silenced by the state.

But does trust survive both?

Can a parent trust their child to a teacher who is celebrating death?

I think no. I don't think a teacher can be trusted if they think that the children that it's right for children to see strippers in first grade!

I'm sorry. It's beyond reason. You should not be around my children!

But you shouldn't go to jail for that. Don't we, as a society have a right to demand virtue, in positions of authority?

Yes.

But the political class and honestly, the educational class, does everything they can to say, that doesn't matter.

But it does. And we're seeing it now. The line between cancel and culture, the -- the cancellation of people, and the accountability of people in our culture, it's not easy.

Except here. I think it is easy.

Cancel culture is about challenging the orthodoxy. Opinions about faith, morality, biology.
Accountability comes when speech reveals somebody's heart.

Accountability comes when you're like, you are a monster! You are celebrating violence. You're mocking life itself. One is an argument. The other is an abandonment of humanity. The Constitution, so you understand, protects both.

But we as a culture can decide, what kind of voices would shape our children? Heal our sick. Lead our communities?

I'm sorry, if you're in a position of trust, I think it's absolutely right for the culture to say, no!

No. You should not -- because this is not policy debate. This is celebrating death.

You know, our Founders gave us liberty.

And, you know, the big thing was, can you keep it?

Well, how do you keep it? Virtue. Virtue.

Liberty without virtue is suicide!

So if anybody is making this case to you, that this is cancel culture. I just want you to ask them this question.

Which do you want to defend?

Cancel culture that silences debate. Or a culture that still knows the difference between debating ideas and celebrating death.

Which one?

Shocking train video: Passengers wait while woman bleeds out

Surveillance footage of the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska in Charlotte, NC, reveals that the other passengers on the train took a long time to help her. Glenn, Stu, and Jason debate whether they were right or wrong to do so.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: You know, I'm -- I'm torn on how I feel about the people on the train.

Because my first instinct is, they did nothing! They did nothing! Then my -- well, sit down and, you know -- you know, you're going to be judged. So be careful on judging others.

What would I have done? What would I want my wife to do in that situation?

STU: Yeah. Are those two different questions, by the way.

GLENN: Yeah, they are.

STU: I think they go far apart from each other. What would I want myself to do. I mean, it's tough to put yourself in a situation. It's very easy to watch a video on the internet and talk about your heroism. Everybody can do that very easily on Twitter. And everybody is.

You know, when you're in a vehicle that doesn't have an exit with a guy who just murdered somebody in front of you, and has a dripping blood off of a knife that's standing 10 feet away from you, 15 feet away from you.

There's probably a different standard there, that we should all kind of consider. And maybe give a little grace to what I saw at least was a woman, sitting across the -- the -- the aisle.

I think there is a difference there. But when you talk about that question. Those two questions are definitive.

You know, I know what I would want myself to do. I would hope I would act in a way that didn't completely embarrass myself afterward.

But I also think, when I'm thinking of my wife. My advice to my wife would not be to jump into the middle of that situation at all costs. She might do that anyway. She actually is a heck of a lot stronger than I am.

But she might do it anyway.

GLENN: How pathetic, but how true.

STU: Yes. But that would not be my advice to her.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: Now, maybe once the guy has certainly -- is out of the area. And you don't think the moment you step into that situation. He will turn around and kill you too. Then, of course, obviously. Anything you can do to step in.

Not that there was much anyone on the train could do.

I mean, I don't think there was an outcome change, no matter what anyone on that train did.

Unfortunately.

But would I want her to step in?

Of course. If she felt she was safe, yes.

Think about, you said, your wife. Think about your daughter. Your daughter is on that train, just watching someone else getting murdered like that. Would you advise your daughter to jump into a situation like that?

That girl sitting across the aisle was somebody's daughter. I don't know, man.

JASON: I would. You know, as a dad, would I advise.

Hmm. No.

As a human being, would I hope that my daughter or my wife or that I would get up and at least comfort that woman while she's dying on the floor of a train?

Yeah.

I would hope that my daughter, my son, that I would -- and, you know, I have more confidence in my son or daughter or my wife doing something courageous more than I would.

But, you know, I think I have a more realistic picture of myself than anybody else.

And I'm not sure that -- I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I know what I would hope I would do. But I also know what I fear I would do. But I would have hoped that I would have gotten up and at least tried to help her. You know, help her up off the floor. At least be there with her, as she's seeing her life, you know, spill out in under a minute.

And that's it other thing we have to keep in mind. This all happened so rapidly.

A minute is -- will seem like a very long period of time in that situation. But it's a very short period of time in real life.

STU: Yeah. You watch the video, Glenn. You know, I don't need the video to -- to change my -- my position on this.

But at his seem like there was a -- someone who did get there, eventually, to help, right? I saw someone seemingly trying to put pressure on her neck.

GLENN: Yeah. And tried to give her CPR.

STU: You know, no hope at that point. How long of a time period would you say that was?

Do you know off the top of your head?

GLENN: I don't know. I don't know. I know that we watched the video that I saw. I haven't seen past 30 seconds after she --

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: -- is down. And, you know, for 30 seconds nothing is happening. You know, that is -- that is not a very long period of time.

STU: Right.

GLENN: In reality.

STU: And especially, I saw the pace he was walking. He certainly can't be -- you know, he may have left the actual train car by 30 seconds to a minute. But he wasn't that far away. Like he was still in visual.

He could still turn around and look and see what's going on at that point. So certainly still a threat is my point. He has not, like, left the area. This is not that type of situation.

You know, I -- look, as you point out, I think if I could be super duper sexist for a moment here, sort of my dividing line might just be men and women.

You know, I don't know if it's that a -- you're not supposed to say that, I suppose these days. But, like, there is a difference there. If I'm a man, you know, I would be -- I would want my son to jump in on that, I suppose. I don't know if he could do anything about it. But you would expect at least a grown man to be able to go in there and do something about it. A woman, you know, I don't know.

Maybe I'm -- I hope --

GLENN: Here's the thing I -- here's the thing that I -- that causes me to say, no. You should have jumped in.

And that is, you know, you've already killed one person on the train. So you've proven that you're a killer. And anybody who would have screamed and got up and was with her, she's dying. She's dying. Get him. Get him.

Then the whole train is responsible for stopping that guy. You know. And if you don't stop him, after he's killed one person, if you're not all as members of that train, if you're not stopping him, you know, the person at the side of that girl would be the least likely to be killed. It would be the ones that are standing you up and trying to stop him from getting back to your daughter or your wife or you.

JASON: There was a -- speaking of men and women and their roles in this. There was a video circling social media yesterday. In Sweden. There was a group of officials up on a stage. And one of the main. I think it was health official woman collapses on stage. Completely passes out.

All the men kind of look away. Or I don't know if they're looking away. Or pretending that they didn't know what was going on. There was another woman standing directly behind the woman passed out.

Immediately springs into action. Jumps on top. Grabs her pant leg. Grabs her shoulder. Spins her over and starts providing care.

What did she have that the other guys did not? Or women?

She was a sheepdog. There is a -- this is my issue. And I completely agree with Stu. I completely agree with you. There's some people that do not respond this way. My issue is the proportion of sheepdogs versus people that don't really know how to act. That is diminishing in western society. And American society.

We see it all the time in these critical actions. I mean, circumstances.

There are men and women, and it's actually a meme. That fantasize about hoards of people coming to attack their home and family. And they sit there and say, I've got it. You guys go. I'm staying behind, while I smoke my cigarette and wait for the hoards to come, because I will sacrifice myself. There are men and women that fantasize of block my highway. Go ahead. Block my highway. I'm going to do something about it. They fantasize about someone holding up -- not a liquor store. A convenience store or something. Because they will step in and do something. My issue now is that proportion of sheepdogs in society is disappearing. Just on statistical fact, there should be one within that train car, and there were none.

STU: Yeah. I mean --

JASON: They did not respond.

STU: We see what happens when they do, with Daniel Penny. Our society tries to vilify them and crush their existence. Now, there weren't that many people on that train. Right?

At least on that car. At least it's limited. I only saw three or four people there, there may have been more. I agree with you, though. Like, you see what happens when we actually do have a really recent example of someone doing exactly what Jason wants and what I would want a guy to do. Especially a marine to step up and stop this from happening. And the man was dragged by our legal system to a position where he nearly had to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I mean, I -- it's insanity. Thankfully, they came to their senses on that one.

GLENN: Well, the difference between that one and this one though is that the guy was threatening. This one, he killed somebody.

STU: Yeah. Right. Well, but -- I think -- but it's the opposite way. The debate with Penny, was should he have recognize that had this person might have just been crazy and not done anything?

Maybe. He hadn't actually acted yet. He was just saying things.

GLENN: Yeah. Well --

STU: He didn't wind up stabbing someone. This is a situation where these people have already seen what this man will do to you, even when you don't do anything to try to stop him. So if this woman, who is, again, looks to be an average American woman.

Across the aisle. Steps in and tries to do something. This guy could easily turn around and just make another pile of dead bodies next to the one that already exists.

And, you know, whether that is an optimal solution for our society, I don't know that that's helpful.

In that situation.