RADIOMarch 29, 2024

How a Baptist Pastor Went from Shroud of Turin SKEPTIC to DEFENDER

Is there enough evidence to prove that the Shroud of Turin is real? Prestonwood Baptist Church apologetics pastor Jeremiah Johnston used to be a skeptic. But once he did a deep dive into the history of the Shroud, he became a “total defender” of the Shroud’s authenticity. This Easter Week, Pastor Johnston joins the Glenn Beck Program to lay it all out from a scientific perspective. Plus, he explains why you don’t need to be Catholic to believe the Shroud is truly the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Yesterday, we had Jeremiah J. Johnston on. He was the author of a book, called Body of Proof. He has his doctorate. But so do I.

I know I'm a doctor of humanities. And I didn't even study for the test. But he's also the president of Christian thinker society, Prestonwood Baptist Church, and we were talking yesterday about the Shroud of Turin, which surprised me. Because a lot of people, especially in the south Baptist, and even evangelicals. They don't necessarily hold to the traditions of the Catholic Church. And I -- I think we all have unbelievable pieces of the puzzle, and one of those pieces, I think as -- is the Shroud of Turin. And I didn't know what to think about it, until a few years ago. He's writing a whole book on the Shroud of Turin. So we thought we would bring him back today. This is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ, that's what it's purported to be. The burial cloth. And it is a -- a reverse negative. It is almost like when his body came back to life. This is the way I view it.

When his body came back to life. It's like the burial cloth was like a film. And it printed in a burst of light. It printed the negative of his body in that cloth.

And nobody really knows how it was made, if it was fake. Jeremiah, welcome to the program.

JEREMIAH: Glenn, it's great to be back with you. And I'm sure we have people that right now, that are like Thomas Didymus. Remember Thomas the twin, that he said in John 20:25, hey, look, you can say Jesus is God. Good for you. But unless I see his nail-scarred hands. Unless I can put my hand in his side, I won't believe. Well, guess what we're going to do on the Glenn Beck Program? You'll actually be able to see the nail-pierced hand of Jesus, thanks be to the Shroud of Turin.

GLENN: Okay. Explain the history of the Shroud of Turin. Of where it came from. Of when we think it first appeared.

JEREMIAH: Absolutely. And let's make sure we situate this. Because you bring up a really important point. There's been a pejorative vibe towards the shroud, by anyone who isn't Catholic. I want to remind our audience, the Catholic Church, they're the largest landowners on church. Did you know that? They actually have a lot of land. They have a lot of assets and property. And guess what, it turns out they have some excellent artifacts for the Christian faith. C.S. Lewis. We've all heard of C.S. Lewis. I love Lewis. I lived in Oxford for three years. Glenn, I didn't know it until this year. Jack Graham, my pastor and I, went to Oxford on an inspirational summer trip, and then we went and did some golfing at St. Andrews. We literally went to Lewis' home, and I look up on Lewis' home. I don't know if you can see this, but for the benefit of our audience, I'm holding it right up to my face. I look up, C.S. Lewis kept a picture of the Shroud of Turin in his bedroom, next to his bed, where he slept. And the reason he did that, Lewis said, I needed a reminder every morning and every evening, that my God has a face. And so we're not talking about something weird or frisure, even C.S. Lewis took it seriously.

GLENN: So when did it first appear on the scene?

JEREMIAH: This is what's remarkable out of the Shroud of Turin, goes back far beyond the radio carbon dating. And as you point -- because some people hear shroud, they're like, what is that? As you pointed out, this is a burial garment for Jesus. All four gospels say that Joseph of Arimathea, and Nicodemus, two members of the Sanhedrin. Remember, if the Sanhedrin condemned a criminal to death, it was according to the Mishna. The Sanhedrin had to bury the condemned criminal. What do we see in the juridical procedure of Jesus?

Two members. Joseph of Arimathaea, and Nicodemus. They take Jesus, and they wrap his body in a burial garment. And they bury him in Joseph of Arimathaea's tomb.

GLENN: And it's not like when you think of wrapping a body. You think of like a mummy. But this is actually like a very long tablecloth, very, very long.

JEREMIAH: Right.

GLENN: And it's -- they laid it down, then put the body in. And then where the head is, they took and they pulled the rest of the fabric down to his feet. So it's a double image of the back, then a space, then the front of this body.

JEREMIAH: Exactly. Exactly. And that is not unusual. If you were in the Jewish burial traditions, you would do that. You might say, oh, Glenn. Jeremiah. There's no way that a burial shroud could last for 2,000 years. Give me a break. Well, actually, when you're a student of history, you can see, we even have a Tarkan dress linen shirt, and guess what, Glenn. It's 3,000, 200 years older than the Shroud of Turin. It's 5,000 years old.

So given the right set of circumstances, linen will last forever. So you're exactly right. It's 14 feet long. It's about 4 feet wide. Longer than our studio table here at Mercury Studios. And what's fascinating is, something occurred. And I have the top five reasons why I went from skeptic. Glenn, I was a total skeptic, until I went and wrote Body of Proof.

Did the video series for the Bible study, Body of Proof in Jerusalem. Went to the shroud exhibit, had private access.

Exhibited all -- looked at all the artifacts. And then I came out with top five reasons, that utterly took me from skeptic to total defender now of the shroud.

GLENN: Okay. So let's share those.

JEREMIAH: Number five. Let's do a countdown. You like countdowns, Glenn?

GLENN: Sure.

JEREMIAH: The Shroud of Turin is the most studied artifact of the archeological world, there's not a close second. And the second thing I want to say, is it's almost the most lied about artifact in the archaeologically world.

GLENN: Okay. Wait. Let's start with the first one. Which is the most studied. How do you know that, and what's been done with it?

JEREMIAH: Because I've read all the peer-reviewed journals that you don't have to, Glenn.

GLENN: Go ahead.

JEREMIAH: There's been an amazing evidential history of the Shroud of Turin. In 1978, the Sturkin (phonetic), this is the Shroud of Turin research project team. Went to Italy. They thought it would be a free trip to Italy. They were all having drinks in the lobby of the hotel. Giggling that the on the Catholic Church's dime, they would have a free trip to Italy. They only had two days to prove that it was a hoax. And guess what, nobody was giggling two days later. They had approximately a hundred twenty hours to examine this very ancient shroud, which has a very unique history.

I mean, Hitler tried to steal it. They had to save it from Hitler's hands during World War II. The history of the shroud is just remarkable. So these were not Bible scholars. These were not -- as far as I know, they were outside of the priests, that were kind of security overlooking the shroud, while it was being looked at.

These were all weapons scientists. Barry Schwartz, who you interview, that I encourage everybody to go back and watch the Glenn Beck interview with Barry Schwartz. He was a nominal Jew. His only bias was, he thought it was a hoax and a joke when he went there. And now he's utterly convinced, that it's not only not a hoax. Because as we'll talk about in a minute, you cannot -- if it's a hoax, it's never been repeated. He's convinced that it's an authentic burial shroud of Jesus, so it's the most studied cross-disciplinary practice in the world.

GLENN: And the -- in 19 -- the 1970s, when Barry was part of this. As you said, they all went in as skeptics.

And I believe it came out, at the time, that it was possible. But radio carbon data was saying, no. It's like a thousand years later. Or something.

But something was wrong. And I don't remember what it was. Maybe you do.

Barry said, it was only until later, when technology changed.

JEREMIAH: Right. Right.

GLENN: That they realized, oh, my gosh, this is that old.

JEREMIAH: Yeah. And 1978, you have the original research project. And they come out. What they say, it's not a hoax. There's no pigment. There's no ink. There's no dye. The shroud has survived three fires. It's been doused in water twice. If there was dye, if there was paint, it would have bled out. It would have smeared. Essentially, they came out and said, it's not a hoax. We don't know what it is. Ten years later, 1988. This is point number three in the countdown, which we'll get to. The 1988 carbon dating was done. So about ten years after that original research project.

GLENN: Okay. All right.

JEREMIAH: And this is when all the headlines came out, Glenn, that said, this is a total hoax. The carbon 14 dating -- dated it to the late 13th, early 14th century. There's huge problems with that, and we'll discuss that.

GLENN: Okay. So number four.

JEREMIAH: Number four. Science today.

This is what really arrests my attention. Cannot explain how the image is in the cloth.

Now, Glenn, you've seen the shroud.

I mean, it's stunning.

The energy it would have taken.

GLENN: I never actually -- I never actually have seen it in person.

I was going to go to Turin. I wanted to go this summer to Turin, just to see it. Because talking to Barry Schwartz has totally changed my mind on it. You can't see it. Because it's protected.

JEREMIAH: It's under a vault. They bring it out every few years. It's that same John the Baptist Cathedral in the Piedmont District of Northern Italy, as you say in Turin, Italy. By the way, if you go to Jerusalem, there's an incredible Shroud exhibit there that shows every aspect of the Shroud.

And I'm talking not just scientists in general. Rocket scientists. Republican scientists.
Chemical scientists. Cannot explain how the image is in the Shroud.

If it was a forgery, if it was a hoax, it's never been able to be repeated.

I mean, this is unbelievable. These aren't Bible theologians or commentators saying it. They're scientists saying, we cannot explain how there's an image. And here's the fascinating thing, Glenn. Do you know if you get closer than 8 feet, the image vanishes. You actually have to stand back from it, 8 feet, to be able to see the image.

It's very unique.

For a Night, We Were Human | The Christmas Truce Music Video

In the frozen trenches of World War I along the Lys River in 1914, amidst the relentless thunder of artillery, a miraculous unofficial truce unfolded on Christmas Day. British and German soldiers, weary enemies, emerged from the mud and wire to share gifts, songs, and stories of home together in the ruins. Produced by Glenn Beck in collaboration with AI, this poignant music video and original song recapture the true story of the Christmas Truce, reminding us that even in the darkest times, a single brave act or small light can awaken our shared humanity, allowing soldiers to lay down their weapons and remember they are human... just for a night.

Stay tuned at GlennBeck.com for more musical storytelling inspired by Glenn’s artifacts next year on Torch.

The HIDDEN history behind Trump’s controversial Rob Reiner comments

President Trump recently received heat from his own party over his comments about the allegedly murdered actor Rob Reiner. Glenn Beck explains why he believes Trump’s comments were not a good move, but also tells of a meeting he had with Trump that he believes explains why Trump hates TDS so much…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: You know, I don't -- I don't -- I don't want to get into -- into the mix with everybody and personalities. I like -- my goal is to make things about right and wrong, and not about personalities.

But I do want to spend just a second on President Trump's post yesterday about Rob Reiner. It made me sad. It made me really sad. Because I like the president.

And -- and he doesn't help himself when he does things like this. But I think I understand this in a different way.

You know, the President has said, you know, all kinds of things about me at times when I disagree with him. He'll say, "Oh, he's just a failing fat blob," or whatever. And that's just him. That's just the way -- when he's in a fight, he is a -- he's a knife fighter. And I get it. I don't like it. But I get it. This was different. This was different.
And this was -- you know, you can say a lot of stuff politically about Rob Reiner. But politics didn't matter yesterday. We weren't -- I mean, that's not -- it just didn't matter. It didn't matter.

But I think to the President, it does. I saw a change in the President -- I've seen two changes in the President. I've seen a change in him when they started going after him and his family. After 2020. And they really started going after his family. And we know this because we showed you the documents. What they -- they had a plan. Take him down.

Take his family down to stop MAGA at all costs. Put them in jail. I mean, those are their words.

And it's -- it was frightening to read.

And I talked to the president, I don't know. Maybe six months after, you know, we were in 2021. Maybe six months. Eight months.

And I said, how are you holding up?

And he had talked a little about how he felt. He had really let people down because he had things going in the right direction. And now, look at it, and look how screwed up things are going to get. And how the economy is going to be damn near impossible to fix. It will take us time. But we can't fix it. Pragmatism, but they've just destroyed it. And I said, how are you personally.

How are you holding up?

And this is the first change I saw. He -- his body changed. And he said, they're going after my damn children!

And it was this Dad. All of a sudden, he wasn't the president or former president, he wasn't Donald Trump. He was a Dad. And it was every Dad response in him. And he said, "You don't go after our children."

And I saw him really, truly mad for the very first time, and it was righteous indignation.

Then after he was shot, I saw another change. I saw him recognize that God existed. I mean, I know he believed that in God. I don't know that he believed that God was actually part of, you know, the story. The everyday story. You know, I don't know how he views God in that way.

But I know that he recognized that God was in his -- in the story of America now.

Firsthand, he witnessed it. The reason why I said this made me sad yesterday, is because -- I don't agree with what he said. I feel -- it was -- it was sad.

Because he is -- he has been kicked in the head over and over and over again by some of these people, that he -- Christmas is about the baby Jesus coming again.

And what he can do in your life. And the biggest thing that he taught was, love your enemies. Don't hate them. But that's really, really hard to do. And the President isn't there yet. On this. And it -- it made me sad. How did you feel about it, Stu?

STU: I didn't like it at all. I think maybe the same as you. You know, one of the things that bothered me about it.

Because you hit many of the points that I had on it without the personal insight that is illustrative of -- of -- of what he's going through. I think there is something to understand there. You know, obviously I --

GLENN: Big time.

STU: One of the things that is difficult about life in your attempt to master it is to try to act the right way, even when you're faced with circumstances like that. And, you know, I get it. I get why he's angry and doesn't like the guy. The man -- you used a phrase, I think in there, where you said, he's a knife fighter. This guy was actually just in a legitimate knife fight and was murdered. It was a -- it was -- this actually really happened.

GLENN: Oh, yeah.

STU: And, look, my honest opinion is, it's indefensible. You know, I like President Trump. I think he does a lot of great things for the country. We've defended him on a lot of different things. A lot of times when he's being attacked, I think he deserves defense. In this case, you know, it is -- you know, it is what it is.

It is priced in to everyone's understanding of who Donald Trump is. And everything I heard about him in personal situations where he cares about the person. Is that he's very generous. He's very likable.

He's very -- he's one of those people that you like being around. You know, that is something that I've heard from tons of people. This part of him is really hard for me to square with what I've heard from -- from other -- from everybody that I've talked to, and has been on the inside with him.

And so I don't -- I don't have a defense for it. I think it's really bad. And I will say one more thing on this real quickly, Glenn.

I know a part of this that I think is difficult. In that, one of the things I took from the aftermath of that immediately was -- I don't know if pride is the right word. But like, I really liked the way conservatives responded to it.

We didn't do what they did, after Charlie Kirk.

We didn't do what they did after they shot the president. Right?

Like we -- they celebrated it. They -- they were horrible human beings, and I enjoyed the high ground, that we had there.

GLENN: Yeah. Me too.

STU: And it's difficult to make the argument that we have the high ground. When, you know, the President of the Republican Party. The Republican President of the United States, the most high profile person on, quote, unquote, our side, whatever that means these days, is a guy who, you know, kind of did some of the things that they did.

You know, so I don't -- I don't like that. I understand as part of Donald Trump. And I think if we're all adults here, we're able to kind of price that in and judge him on everything that he's doing. And when I mean pricing in. I think that's a negative part of him. Overall, you have to take everything into context.

GLENN: Right. And if we're all adults here, you know, we should be able to say, to those we love and respect, bad move. I didn't like that. Don't do that.

And I think, you know, I think because the left always says, well, you never take on your own.

Yes, we do. We take on our own, all the time. All the time. And I think it's important that we say, didn't like that. Thought that was a bad move. It didn't look good. It just wasn't right.

He's -- I wish -- and, again, though, I -- I'm not excusing it, but I am tempering it with none of us have gone through what he has gone through.

STU: So true.

GLENN: His family, somebody is shooting at him. He's being called fascist Hitler all the time. I mean, that wears on you and changes you.

And, you know, he's having a hard time forgiving that. And I kind of understand that. I wish he would take that on and take on the forgiveness, so he could be more a peacemaker in all of those things. But that is his own personal journey.

But --

STU: Yeah. And I think when we talk about like a terrible crime that's occurred.

GLENN: Sad.

STU: Like, I don't know. If there was -- think about some awful situation and at times you'll see -- he'll hear family members say the worst possible thing.

You know, if your kid is murdered. And by some -- somewhat of a particular area or group or whatever.

And they might react with just an awful thing about that group or area.

And you just. We all have a bit of understanding. Right?

A person going through a massively emotional thing.

And lashing out.

You want -- you know, the example you bring up all the time, Glenn.

Of the maybe -- the ultimate example of being able to have restraint was the Amish situation from years ago. Where, you know, you were talking about mass murder. And they were to the family's house that night, right?

And saying, we --

GLENN: Not that night. That afternoon.

I mean, within an hour. The kids were not even out of the schools yet. Their bodies were still laying in the school. And the Amish went, oh, my gosh. The killer is dead too.

He was a member of our community. His wife lives here.

What is she feeling? She's feeling completely alone. My gosh. What an example. I couldn't do that.

STU: Right. I don't even think I come close to that standard in that moment.

GLENN: No. But I would like to.

STU: That's the range. Some people act -- react really well. Some people react really poorly.

And I think we all understand the emotion and everything that takes over in a situation like that. And that has to be factored in, I think, to Trump. Of course, Rob Reiner wasn't responsible to the shooting. He was just a liberal who said bad things about Trump. And look, he's a very unique person. And a very unique situation, that I don't think anyone in the world has ever experienced.

You know, what happened with him over his life.

But may I just say, you still haven't forgiven RFK Jr for what he said about me.
(laughter)
Okay?

STU: As I said, I'm not Amish. You know, I like technology. I don't have any wagons. I didn't say I'm perfect.

GLENN: Right.

STU: No. I have -- I have -- I have absolutely forgiven RFK Jr for what he said. And if you didn't know, he accused Glenn of being a traitor. He said, he should be charged with treason. The penalty of which is death.

So, you know, I don't like that. And RFK Jr. I don't like for a lot of his policies. Some of them, by the way, I do really like. Some of them, I think are really positive. I could give you a list of some of the negative things he's done as well.

GLENN: I can too.

STU: That doesn't mean -- I certainly was find that to be an appropriate context, when the embrace of RFK Jr is occurring.

I think we need to understand what people are, and what they're doing. If he's apologetic about that, I do forgive him in that sense. Do I want him on the show and promoting all his books and his candidacy?

No. I did not -- I did not like that. But, you know, a lot of people do. I will say is, you're right, though.

We all have our hang-ups.

GLENN: I do. I certainly was.

STU: I will say this, though.

And, you know, again, all the context here. I know people are really defensive of Donald Trump, appropriately.

Because of the fact that he's targeted unfairly. I understand why people are defensive of him. I can tell you this. I really don't like RFK Jr.

He's one of my least favorite people in politics. I'm just not a fan. I could give you other names of people. Most of them revolve around Olivia Nuzzi, who whatever. I don't have feelings about her. But the story was packed with people.

GLENN: Yeah.

STU: Cuomos for sure.
GLENN: Yeah.

STU: God forbid, one of these people that I really don't like, was murdered and his family and his spouse.

I can promise you. I can promise you, I will not be tweeting anything like what Donald Trump tweeted.

That is just a -- is a -- is a situation where I understand -- I understand the context around it, that we just discussed.

I don't think there's a defense to it. I think there's something, I really hope he has an awakening to at some point.

GLENN: I think that is enough to be said on that.

Now maybe we should examine ourselves, and say, where do we have that hardness in our heart that we should learn from and remove this holiday season?

Why America's "Surveillance State" Has Proven to be a TOTAL Failure

America is facing a shocking security breakdown—from a mass shooting at one of the most heavily surveilled campuses in the United States to a deadly ISIS attack in Syria that exposes the cracks in U.S. intelligence and foreign-policy strategy. As surveillance systems fail, former extremists gain power abroad, and radical Islamist networks globalize their reach, the West is confronting a threat both inside and outside its borders. This episode uncovers the uncomfortable truth behind Brown University’s unanswered questions, Syria’s escalating instability, and why the West may be running out of time to get its own house in order.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I wanted to bring Jason in -- I wanted to bring Jason in because the news that we talked about a minute ago in Australia, then Brown.

There's some weird stuff happening with the Brown shooting. And we -- we don't know much about that. And also, Syria. So let me start with Brown University, Jason. Why is this one weird, as our chief researcher, why is this one weird?

JASON: Well, there comes a point where, you know, as a society, we just end up getting used to the massive surveillance state we live in. And I think we're just like, okay. Fine.

We're never not going to be surveilled 24/7. Maybe there's some benefits to it.

Well, no!

It doesn't seem that way. Because the people were asking the people at Brown. Like, how is it that you have not fully identified the shooter yet? And that's a very good question. Because if you go back to around 2021, there were people writing about how Brown University was one of the most surveilled campuses of the United States.

GLENN: How is it we only have one picture of this guy from the back?

JASON: Right!

GLENN: Apparently the one thing that will help you get away with any crime is a hoodie.

JASON: Yeah. Wear something over your head and a coat.

Apparently, that foils the entire surveillance state. Also, we have nothing to worry about with surveillance. I don't know.

GLENN: Yeah. Right. Right.

JASON: And on top of that, Kash Patel, the FBI director said that they sprung into action. And they activated their cellular monitoring system to help identify the person that has now been let go. Again, that's another layer of this surveillance state that I think a lot of us have been worried about.

And that didn't do anything either. That helped give us the wrong suspect? What is all this stuff for?

It's not keeping us safe, that's for sure.

GLENN: Hmm. I don't want to jump to any conclusions on, you know, what we have, what we don't have. I'm assuming that they have more. They just haven't shown it.

I would like to -- you know, we could help. You show us some pictures.

I think it's odd.

What happened in Syria over the weekend with al-Qaeda.

JASON: Yeah. In Syria.

There's a ton of news, especially involving ISIS, who is very much active and still very much planning attacks.

GLENN: So wait. Wait. Wait. Was this ISIS, or was this al-Qaeda?

JASON: This is ISIS. That's what they're saying. They're saying it's a lone ISIS perpetrator. The location was symbolic as well. The location as in or around Palmyra. Which, I don't know if you remember, that was a scene of a gruesome ISIS video back at the height of their caliphate, where they behead a lot of people in that area.

GLENN: Right. Right. Yes. That's where they lined them up in the orange jumpsuits. Remember everybody was kneeling down in the sand. And they started beheading people. Yes, I remember.

JASON: It was one of those UNESCO sites with ruins all around. And it was very crazy. Brutal video. But another brutal attack. I believe it was three US service members that were killed in this attack. There's a lot of speculation about to go, on if this person was working. I think he was actually at a time working with the security services that are in Syria right now, under the new president. He -- he could have been, you know, a sleeper in that organization. Who knows? But for -- the one thing I do know. And I don't understand the direction we're moving in Syria. I don't understand how a former al-Qaeda guy suddenly is an all right guy because he puts a suit on. And now he's the president of Syria. And he's our ally.

I don't understand that. The Trump administration, maybe they have more information, that I don't know.

I would love to get more of an explanation on this.

As of now, I don't see this going any direction other than a whole lot worse.

You look around that entire area. You have a former al-Qaeda guy now the president of Syria.

You have the rest of Syria, an absolute Dumpster fire. You have Iraq. I hesitate to call these countries.

They're so far down the sectarian, you know, spiral that this is.

But I don't see how this is going to go anywhere, but south, from here on out.

We're in an absolute war with these radical Islamists. And it's not just in the Middle East. It's globalize the intifada has landed on shores all over the world. And while there are politicians that will not denounce that. That is exactly what's happening. Sorry!

GLENN: So I think that's where -- I think that's what -- that explains Trump's thinking. That Trump does not want these everlasting wars to go on.

He does not want to be fighting in the Middle East. He doesn't want to really be fighting anywhere. He will, if he has to. But he's focused more on the American homeland. And the American hemisphere.

And so I think he is -- I think he's letting the Middle East take care of itself.

And as long as they can all get along with each other and Israel.

And recognize that, you know, Iran and the -- the -- the al-Qaeda, the, you know, Muslim Brotherhood. Et cetera, et cetera.

Trying to coax them all into. Hey. These are kind of your enemies here.

You know, ISIS is a big enemy to us and to peace.

And I think he's hoping that they will start to take care of themselves. Whether they will or not, I don't know. You know, it's never happened were. But it's worth trying. We've been playing this other game of us getting involved in everything for 100 years. We know that doesn't work.

So I'm guessing what Trump is thinking is, we know that doesn't work. We're not going to do that. Let's try to give peace a chance, and help them stomp this out, because it will be prosperous for all of them and plant those seeds as deeply as you can to see what happens. But we're not getting involved in any of that. I have a feeling, but there will be a military response to this, I'm sure. Won't you agree?

JASON: Oh, one hundred percent, and to tack on to what you're saying, I would hope that the President would go with his gut on this.

Because the previous ways this has been handled with Islamists, especially in this area. They've screwed it up.

They don't know what they're doing. Although, they think they know what they're doing. I'll go back to history. The Iran and Iraq War. We supported both size on that. In a similar -- in a similar strategy. So we're like, okay. We don't like either one of these groups. Sectarian groups to get too large. Let's fund this country at the same time we fund this country. We'll arm them. They'll fight each other, and they'll be fine. We do that all the time.

So now, the only thing I can think of is that's what they're thinking with the Syria president, this former al-Qaeda guy. Okay. Well, fine. They'll be anti-Iran, so they can counter Iran.

It's literally the same exact strategy, that they're going for. And I get it. That means that we don't have to get involved. I guess in the initial point.

But we always end up having to get involved after the fire erupts and --

GLENN: We know -- look, I think he's trying to buy time, quite honestly. Get us out of that.

Let us recover, and hopefully not go back to it. Try to buy hopefully some real peace.

But we all know how this will end. It's never going to work in the long-term. Because we as the West have to concentrate on our own homelands. You're seeing that with what happened in Australia. We have let the barbarian into the gates. And we've got to focus on that. We've got to get this cancer, cut out of our own societies. Because it's not good.

Why Biden's Corrupt Pardons CANNOT Stand... And Why it STILL Matters!

A new wave of sweeping “pardons” has triggered one of the most urgent constitutional alarms Glenn Beck has ever raised — not because the individuals involved are controversial, but because the actions themselves may not even qualify as pardons at all. Glenn Beck breaks down how these broad, immunity-style declarations can bypass investigations, rewrite laws by fiat, and push executive power into territory the Founders explicitly warned against. With mass clemency increasingly used as a political shield and executive actions replacing the legislative process, America is drifting toward a model of governance that no longer resembles a constitutional republic. This episode exposes how the pardon power is being stretched beyond recognition, why Congress has surrendered its role as a check, and what must happen before the nation crosses a point of no return. The question now is unavoidable: Who will stop this before the Constitution becomes optional?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

CALLER: I wanted to talk about the pardons. Hunter's pardon was legitimate. He was actually accused of a crime. I know you're plugged in with the president. I haven't heard anybody say this anywhere. I have been watching everything.

These pardons. Forget the auto-pen. The auto-pen doesn't even matter. Because these were immunity deals. These were not pardons. None of these people were under investigation. None of these people had any crimes they were accused of.

So you can't pardon somebody for something they may have or may not have done. That's an immunity deal.

Again, I've watched everything. I don't hear anybody bring that stuff -- I don't think the auto-pen matters. I just think those things are null and void from the jump.

GLENN: Who --

CALLER: Like I said.

GLENN: Who do we have besides Mike Lee? Because Mike is always hard to get a hold of at this time. He's like, I'm working on Senate stuff, Glenn.

Who do we have that is a Constitutional scholar that we can call real quick, and see if we can get an answer on that before the end of the show? At least put a call out to Mike Lee, will you?

But I would like to know that happen at that. Because the president has. And Stu and I have talked about this for a while. This has gotten out of control. These pardons are out of control. Out of control.

It's something Constitutional. It's been there since George Washington. The President has always had this right, and it's a privilege of his. But you're right.

These things where, wait. I can't investigate this? What that does is if you're as a president doing something that you shouldn't be doing, all you have to do then is say, I pardon everyone in my administration for anything that they might have done wrong.

That can't stand. You're absolutely right on that.

STU: Yeah. You have the immunity deal. Which again, I think is -- I don't see -- I don't see how a pre-pardon is even possibly covered.
Like, it's just such an insane concept.

The way that Biden. He's right that Hunter Biden actually committed a crime and pardoning him from that in theory, obviously, outside the family interest was the way that that was supposed to work.

But they also pardoned him for multiple years of question marks, whether he committed crimes or not. Right? That was all included on that.

To go a step farther on this, I am on a bit of a personal jihad against the pardon. I'm done with it. I'm done with it personally. There's reasons the Founders were very, very smart. But the Founders were smart enough to also have a process for Constitutional amendments. And I would support one, getting rid of the part in power completely. I'm done with it.

GLENN: Wait, may I just interrupt for a second. I just want to point out. We now have verification, not only is Stu a Canadian spy, but he's also a hidden Nazi. Noticed the word he used, jihad, which translates to my struggle. Hitler's book, My Struggle, Mein Kampf. I just want to point it out.

JASON: Exposed.

STU: Just to be clear, I'm not planning a genocide on the power of pardons.

But I'm against it, strongly. But the other part I would say that I think is every worse and is never discussed, are these types of pardons where they say, you know, all marijuana crimes. They're -- everyone -- there are 17,000 people.

That is just you legislating. If I wanted to New Jersey and say, hey.

I think marijuana should be legal. I could theoretically be president.

Saying, everyone convicted of a marijuana-related crime is now pardoned.

And that's just you making laws. It's you going completely around Congress. And the entire process we have there.

At the very least. It should be massively restricted from the way it's being utilized. Not only -- several presidents in a row, I would argue.

But it's -- it should just -- I think it should just go away completely. It's the most king-like power the president has. And it doesn't make any sense to me.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

So I'm looking this up here.

Barack Obama did this.

He gave clemency for anybody who was convicted of a non-violent federal drug crime.

With no significant criminal history, while serving extraordinarily long sentences. And anybody who was a violent offender was not eligible.

And it was -- it wasn't a -- a true mass pardon. But it was pretty close to it. You know, it was -- it was mass in scale, but not blanketed.

STU: Right.

GLENN: And I think there were like 2,000 people that he parted on that.

STU: It was a law. Creating a new law.

GLENN: Yeah. You're saying, oh, by the way. That law that I personally disagree with.

We're not going to -- it's gone.

STU: The whole law doesn't count at him. We have a whole process to make laws. When someone -- when they pass a law, you can't say, eh. And shrug your shoulders. And say, I don't particularly like it.

And for some reason, that's the way the pardon power has been translated.

GLENN: The problem is the President can. The President has just always had the restraint not to do that.

STU: Right.

GLENN: Because it was bad for the country. And bad for laws.

You know, you don't just -- you don't do this. We're becoming more and more of a king. In our administration.

And it's not Donald Trump.

This has been about to go for a long time.

Barack Obama I think got really, really bad.

But this was going on before him. Obviously.

But Barack Obama kind of set something off.

And then because we couldn't get any legislation passed. We had Donald Trump try to do executive orders, to combat Barack Obama's executive orders.

Then Biden did it. And Trump. It's got to stop.

Because here's the problem. One of the things I said in our special on Wednesday.

Which was, biggest stories of the year.

And predictions for next year. I said, you will start to see rolling brownouts in places like Texas in 2026. Texans, wake up. Wake up.

But you're going to start to see rolling brownouts. But I also made another prediction. And I've just lost what I was going to say was the prediction.

Oh!

This massive swing. We're getting whiplash.

You can't -- you can't run a country like this.

You can't run a country where it's all being done by executive order.

Because look, we were all the way over to one side. When Trump was here. Then we swung way farther than that. With Biden.

Now Trump is bringing us back this way. If you don't pass laws, it's just going to swing.

And you can't -- you can't run a country like that.

This has got to stop!

We have to pass laws. Congress must do its job.