RADIOApril 14, 2025

Colossal CEO: Did China's Human Experiments Make the CIA Fund Dire Wolves?

Why did Colossal Biosciences choose to bring back the dire wolf first, instead of the woolly mammoth or dodo bird? And why is does the CIA invest in them? Glenn speaks with Colossal co-founder and CEO Ben Lamm, who explains the dire wolf choice and makes the case that the U.S. must lead in “synthetic biology” technology before China does. Unlike Colossal, which Lamm says is NOT experimenting on humans or even primates, China has already admitted that it’s trying to make smarter humans. So, what kind of experiments is it doing in secret? Lamm also addresses the names of the 2 male dire wolves – Romulus and Remus – and what extinct animal the company plans to bring back next.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Ben Lamm, Colossal cofounder CEO. Welcome to the program.

BEN: Hey, thanks for having me back, Glenn. It's good to talk to you.

GLENN: You bet. It's good to talk to you. First of all, I have to show you this picture of George R.R. Martin with the dire wolf. I mean, that's brilliant. That's really brilliant.

BEN: George R.R. Martin, you know, made dire wolves popular in pop culture. Many people think they're a myth. But, you know, they were an American wolf.

They were the largest, strongest American wolf.

You know, we got challenged, you know, working on the mammoth, the Tasmanian tiger, and the dodo, but we got challenged by some of our indigenous partners and the government and a few others. Saying, why aren't you working first on an American species?

Like, why aren't you prioritizing that?

We got a lot of pressure and feedback.

When we got close to it, we were like, well, if we don't bring George R.R. Martin in, he's kind of mean. He's the guy who made them the most popular.

GLENN: You know, it kills me -- I did the same thing. I saw the video of the wolves howling and stuff, and little babies.

And I'm like, oh, they're so cute. They're an apex predator, been gone now for 10,000 years.

Why bring them back?

STEPHEN: So Colossal is a de-extinction and preservation company. Right?

And so we will lose up to 50 percent of biodiversity between now and 2050. And so we need new tools in the fight. Right? We think it's better to have the extinction tool kit and not need it, than not have the extinction toolkit and need it.

And so we're working on all these species. And we started having meetings with MHA Nation, one of the largest tribal groups here in the United States. And they started to give it the feedback that we need to do more for wolf conservation. Not enough going on in wolf conservation. It would be amazing if we could work on something like the great wolf.

So then they started filing it from their oral traditions, that they believe, that the great wolf was the dire wolf. I kind of sat with you -- again, the dire wolf?

So we had these great conversations, and then a few months later, we were in North Carolina.

And we learned that the most endangered wolf in the world, is the American wolf!

The red wolf, there's 15 left.

When you think about Americana, you think about the bison, you think about the bald eagle, and you think about wolves.

It would be a travesty to lose these.

GLENN: Yeah, but wait. But wait, wait, wait.

I mean, I live in -- for half the year in a place that has mountain lions and wolves.

They're both very, very important to have.

BEN: Oh, yeah.

GLENN: But they're also spooky as hell.

BEN: Yeah.

GLENN: You're not talking about -- you're not talking about preserving that species.

You just introduced a species that's been gone for 10,000 years!

BEN: Yeah. We have. And they are in a secure, expansive ecological reserve in the north.

And if they ever go back into the wild. It would be in collaboration with the government as well as some of the tribes. And they would go back on secure private lands. They are to be dire wolves.

I think you're not going to be walking down the street, worried about dire wolves.

GLENN: Yeah. Well, I just know, last time, the government got involved with wolves, it was a Yellowstone, and that didn't work out well for anybody.

BEN: You know, rewilding -- rewilding works, as long as it's done thoughtfully and managed. And the problem is, is sometimes people just get so overzealous on certain sides of the table, that they just go out and buck the patriarchy.

It really needs to be studied. It really needs to be managed. It needs to be thoughtfully taken out. But a lot of times people don't realize that, and they just get overzealous. Right?

And they politicize it.

At the end of the day, losing biodiversity, it should be a bipartisan -- and we really need to save these animals. And so by doing what we're doing, Glenn, we're actually building technology to save animals.

And so we were actually able to clone.

No one is talking about this. This is crazy. We are actually able to clone four red wolves, with more genetic diversity than the existing 15 that are still left in the wild.

That's a 25 percent bump in genetic diversity, that has been gone, you know, for tens -- you know, for over a decade.

GLENN: Okay. So, I mean, you -- you describe your company.

I'm sorry. I love the technology. I love what you're doing. I love the way you think.

It's also terrifying.

BEN: I know. We talk a lot about it.

The last time I talked to you. You asked about the CIA.

But, you know, we fall into a category called synthetic biology.

Right? So being able to use AI in software, as well as able to edit and rewrite genomes, is really critical technology.

It's as important technology as space technology. And other deindustrialized technologies.

And our adversaries are advancing. And we are trying --

GLENN: Let me. Because I -- this is -- like everything now, especially with AI. Any of this -- CRISPR. All of this technology.

You can't stop it. You can't put it back in the bottle. Because others are doing it.

BEN: Correct.

GLENN: What China is doing with this. Trying to breed smarter humans. Stronger humans.

You know, fighters. I mean, it's -- the stuff of Nazi movies.

BEN: That's actually what they said publicly.

So everything you're saying, is what they said publicly.

They said that the sequencing, many humans as possible.

They use COVID as this ruse to pull in as many things as possible. Sequencing them.

Then they say, they are looking for the genes that are making the smartest people. And we are going to engineer people.

That's not even crazy, concerned conspiracies.

They have said that out loud. So what have they not said out loud?

GLENN: Right. Any idea what they haven't said out loud?

BEN: I mean, if you think about what colossal is trying to do, right? We're trying to at least do it.

We don't do anything with humans. Even if we work with the federal government. We have this moratorium, that we're not working with humans. Only animals. We're working -- nonhuman primates. We're only working on species, but we are going to these technologies, and that application to humans, right?

And we are understanding from like a 72,000-year-old scull, what made a dire wolf bigger and stronger. And had a bigger jaw. And stronger muscles. And denser bones. We can now understand that with our technology. And engineer that into our -- being the gray wolf. Right?

So think about that same type of data, applied to humans. Right?

I think you can look at it, as adversarial countries. Advancing in technologies. In a way where they can look at, how can we enhance humans?

For us, we as an American company. That works very closely with the federal government. The Secretary of Interior just endorsed our work. And we work very closely with the Department of Interior.

GLENN: It's not necessarily an endorsement on my audience lines. You should deemphasize that with my audience. Because that's not a good thing.

BEN: It's not what anyone likes.

GLENN: Okay. All right. Yeah. Good for you. Good for you. Yeah.

BEN: I think it's important for us to always be -- Colossal, we're pretty bipartisan. We work with both sides. But I do think it's important to be transparent when things happen. And I think that us as America has to lead in synthetic biology. And Colossal is one of the most --

GLENN: So what is the difference between directed evolution and playing God?

BEN: It's a great question. You asked me this last time, right? I think that we as humans play God quite a bit, right? So I will look at it from an ecosystems perspective. When we overfish the ocean or we cut too much down of the rain forest, we are playing God at some level. When we eradicate species. But now we have these tools and technology that we can bio bank species, protect them, and even bring them back. And I think this will be even helpful for how we balance progress. As well as how we balance protection.

And I think that we need these tools now more than ever. Because we can lose up to 50 percent of all life on earth, between now and 2050, that's the current trend line.

GLENN: So, you know, AI is dangerous.
It's glorious. And horrifying at the same time.

Just depends on, you know, who is using it. And how that thing goes.

And it's judge Elon Musk says, we have to have -- we have to have the singularity, as -- as defined as human computer interface.

So we -- we merge as one.

That's not -- that's something of sci-fi movies.

Do you believe that the genetic editing tech, that you are helping to design, is going to be transferred to humans.

Is there a time that you think, oh, well, that probably has to?

BEN: I think that we will be able to look -- one of the biggest things that Colossal works on is what's called multi-splice editing. Being able to edit multiple parts of the genome, at the exact same time.

Right? And so that's part of what we really, really need to continue to advance these. Most in deep states, specifically one that drives, you know, predispositions to cancer are multi-genic in nature. Right?

So for us, I think it's very, very important to advance those technologies, so that you probably about sickle cell anemia, whether it's CRISPR tools and technologies that are being used to do a single knockout.

But most genes, or most of these are multi-genic in nature.

You have to be able to edit multi-part of the genome.

I think a lot of our technologies will be beneficial long-term, to help us cure any inherent -- that's a good thing!

GLENN: How much of this is AI-driven?

STEPHEN: I think 30 percent of our work, what would be possible without AI.

GLENN: And imagine that number is growing exponentially. I mean, I know our --

BEN: Exponentially -- exponentially.

GLENN: You know, you name the dire wolves Romulus and Remus, and I'm not a mythology expert, but I do know, abandoned at birth, raised by wolves, found in Rome. Yada, yada, yada, but didn't Romulus also kill Remus.

BEN: Yeah. Romulus. Romulus is the big one. They do love each other. So we're hoping that not all of history will repeat itself, right? So we're -- we're pretty -- we're pretty bullish on, it will work out better this round.

GLENN: Okay. Good. Good. So am I, I guess. I mean, I guess I'm rooting for that. All of us are together on that one.

That's a great goal to have.

BEN: We're all rooting for the fall of Rome.

GLENN: What is the next thing that you talk about that we'll tell the world about some day?

BEN: Yeah. So we're making a lot of progress. I think we're on the very cusp of a pretty big breakthrough for the dodo project. Right?

Talk about dire wolves and dodos. You know, we made some updates on the Tasmanian tiger. And other --

GLENN: Can we slow down on the apex predators, just a little bit?

BEN: They're very important. I mean, look, elephants kill more people than wolves. There are -- you have five wolf attacks confirmed in the last 100 years. You have a higher probability of getting struck by lightning, while getting eaten by a shark, than getting attacked by a wolf.

GLENN: No, I know that, but have you ever been in the wild?

BEN: I have been, yeah.

GLENN: The wolf walks up? Terrifying.

BEN: I've actually never been -- I've been very close to wolves, in certain ecological preserves.

GLENN: Yeah, no. I've been on my own land, and a wolf walks out from the bushes, and you're like, oh, dear God. Because they are spooky.

BEN: Yeah. In that way. It's definitely spooky, right?

Mountain lions and wolves personally. But I saw a mountain lion first.

The scariest thing I ever saw was, I was actually in Cape Tribulation in Australia once, and a Castlereagh bird walking out, and that seemed like a living velociraptor. And it was just me.

I was by myself. And I was like, I'm going to die. They are very aggressive.

They're very hard to -- look, living with nature is what we've got. Right? We have to figure out how we do that. In our next species, we probably have a big update on, is the dodo. We're very close to a fundamental step in the dodo resurrection. We don't have dodos. We haven't for a long time, but I do think we're pretty close to a fundamental step --

GLENN: Okay. One last thing. You say that you are trying to help species survive. Because we are going to lose all these species.

Why are you bringing things back like the dire wolves?

Humans didn't have anything to do with the extinction. Why are you bringing those back?

BEN: Well, so anthropologic effects, if you can look at kind of the rapid, you know, Younger Dryas cooling period. Also, compared globally, not just in America, of the rise of anthropologic effects. Early humans did drive a lot of the extinction of Megaphonics here in the United States, as well as globally.

I do think there's a lot of data that is starting to suggest, some of the affects -- of the Dryas Cooling Period. That was a rapid period. That may have had meteorological effects that affected it, right?

So for us, we want to build these. We want to use these technologies, to bring back these species.

So that we can study them.

We can look to re-wild them, if it makes sense. And also pair them to build technology for wolves, right? In the case of the dire wolf. In the case of the mammoth.

And one of the things that no one really talks about is every single week, we get dozens of letters from parents and kids, and pictures of little woolly mammoths and dodos. Hopefully now dire wolves. And people are telling us and teachers are telling us, that their kids are excited about science now.

Right?

And people are getting more and more excited about science. And so if you ask a teacher or a parent about colossal, many of them know.

More teachers than parents know, because kids are telling them in the classroom. And I think we need science now more than ever.

And I think kids are excited about science, through the extinction, while also helping conservation is a really good thing.

Ben, there is no better spokesperson for Colossal, than you. Colossal cofounder and CEO, Ben Lamm. Thanks, Ben, for being on. I appreciate it, God bless.

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Operation Fast and Furious: The TRUE Story of How the Feds were Running Guns into Mexico

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Meet the pro-Intifada candidate NYC Democrats just elected

New York City Democrats just elected 33-year-old Zohran Mamdani, a "socialist Muslim", as the Party's candidate for mayor. But Glenn Beck argues that his radical beliefs are actually communist and Islamist.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

VOICE: Z10852. Something weird is going on. The World Trade Center is on fire.

VOICE: Seriously the top of the building. We're trying to get information.

VOICE: Top level of one of the --

VOICE: To unfold from New York City.

VOICE: A plane crashed just --

VOICE: My sister is in that believe. I hope she's okay. I have to come to New York.

VOICE: It's pandemonium.

VOICE: It's raining papers.

VOICE: Wait a minute! Stop just a second. Why are we -- why are we -- I've got breaking news. Breaking news, yesterday. New York City just elected as their mayoral candidate for the left. And the Democrats, a -- a Muslim radical, who is also a communist!

So, you know, it only took you 25 years. It only took you 25 years, New York, to go completely insane.

Somebody who is -- well, I mean, if I might quote Michael malice today. I am old enough to remember when New Yorkers endured 9/11 instead of voting for it.

But you've got a -- you've got a communist jihadist apologist now.

Who was -- you know, well, CAIR put $100,000 behind his bid for New York City mayor.

So you have somebody who is endorsed by CAIR. That's really good.

He also was somebody who said, you know, he was -- he was for the shooting of the United Health Care CEO.

Said he was looking forward to driving down magnum Joan avenue. I don't know. Sounds like supporting people in the streets. Maybe it's just me.

Then he also said that he was going to globalize the intifada, which I think that's -- maybe -- maybe that's just me.

I mean, what do I know?

Tim Miller who is a podcaster. Asked him a few weeks ago. Asked him about his pro Palestinian slogan. Globalized the intifada. And he said, for me, ultimately, what I hear in so many, is a desperate desire for equality and equal rights, in standing up for Palistinian human rights. Oh, is that what you hear, Mr. CAIR?

Really? Huh, that's interesting.

Right. So globalize the intifada.

I mean, I mean, sure, that's -- I mean well, let me go on.

Because I don't want to take him out of context.

He then delved into the semantics of the intifada, citing the United States Holocaust memorial museum's use of a word for a translation for uprising, in an Arabic version of an article, a museum published about the Warsaw ghetto.

Oh!

So this is just a comparison, about the -- the armed rebellion against the Nazis!

I don't know if that makes me feel better!

I mean, if we're globalizing that.

We're the Nazis in this scenario.

Because I don't think it's the Palestinians.

I certainly don't think it's anybody who is like, hey.

Global jihad. I don't think it's those guys.

Or the Nazis. Who are the Nazis in that?

And it seems, if that's what you mean, then it's not just a harmless kind of slogan about human rights. It is a call for violence on the streets.

Because I don't know if you know, that's what happened when the Jews had their uprising against the Nazis.

I'm just saying!

But, hey, hey, free Palestine.

Oh, that's not what that means, gang. That is not what that means, but don't worry about it. He's just going to be possibly the new mayor.

And that's great. By the way, the Columbia faculty members signed a letter defending Hamas.

They were also among the donors to his mayoral campaign.

So, you know, you don't have anything to worry about.

And his father, who used to work at Columbia. Do you know, Stu?

Is his Dad -- is he still a professor at Columbia University?

He said that -- this violent terror thing of Islam, is not a part of Islam. Now, I've read the Koran, and much of the hadith.

And I'm pretty sure the violence is a part of that. But no.

No. This is something entirely new.

And his father while at Columbia university, wanted everybody to know, that this is actually -- this is something that came out of America!

America is really responsible for this.

And, you know, it really started with the Reagan administration, you know, when he started -- when he started with his very religious terms, to finish the war against the evil empire.

So, you know, that's where -- that's where 9/11 came from.

Is what -- don't worry about it! Don't worry about it!

Because who am I? I'm clearly just -- am I an anti-Semite today, or am I an Islamophobic? I can't remember which one.

Oh, it's probably both. Anyway, Islamophobia. Let me just explain Islamophobia. I haven't even gotten to the Communist part of it. Which is really, really -- New York, you're in one for hell of a ride. Buckle up.

It will be a fun rollercoaster for you. My gosh, I've never been happier that I've been away are if New York.

Anyway, I just want I to know, there is Islam. And then there is Islamists. Now, an Islamist is somebody who really wants Sharia law.

That's political Islam!

That's not a faith. That's political Islam.

Now, let me make really -- something really clear. Criticizing Islamism, is not Islamophobia. Pointing out the dangers of, oh. I don't know.

Political Islam. The ideology that seeks to use the tools of democracy, ultimately to destroy democracy, is not an attack on Muslims.

No. Uh-uh.

You know why?

Because Muslims are often the first people in line.

The first victims of the ideology.

So let's draw a bright, bright line between Islam as a faith, millions of people can practice that faithfully and peacefully.

It's mostly peaceful, okay?

Then there's the Islamism.

Islamism is something entirely -- that's a political project.

A theocratic political -- oh. Left loves theocracies. They love it.

Of course, you never see a problem with it.

See it when an Islamist is touting it. Anyway, it's not about prayer. It's not about fasting. It's not about spiritual life.

It's all about power. It's about merging of mosque and state. It's about implementing Sharia, not as a personal code of conduct. But as a governing legal system.

And it's -- it's supremacy.

Absolutely. Faith.

Religion.

It's -- there's one thing that's supreme.

It's misogynistic.

Deeply intolerant of all kinds of things.

Descent. Secularism. Other faiths. Even competing interpretations from inside the faith itself.

It will behead them too.

So let's -- let's be honest here for a second.

You know, CAIR should be labeled an international terror organization.

In my opinion. In my opinion.

Oh, does that make me -- that makes me an Islamophobe. I'm sure. I'm sure they will start a campaign against me on being an Islamophobe.

Stand in line, guys. You've been doing it since 2001, okay?

I don't really care. And I don't think the American people. I think that record, all the grooves are worn-out on that one, okay?

This is not a religion we're talking about. When we're talking about Sharia law. And we're talking about globalize the intifada. What does that mean, actually, to globalize it?

Does that mean we now want to do what is happening to Israel? All over the world?

Has the Palestinian plight become our plight you now, as Americans?

That there has to be an intifada here!

Because it's the kind of the same. You know. It's kind of the same over, you know, with what the Palestinians are going through.

Well, it's very much like what the Jews went through with the Nazis.

That's a weird one. That one makes my head hurt. It's very much the same as that. And very much the same as the fight against Donald Trump.

Oh, this is going to be fun. It's fun!

Really fun. You know, the irony here is, the ones that will scream Islamophobia the most, are the ones in the progressive left, the champions of feminism, LGBTQ rights. And secularism.

They're going to -- no. You want -- they're going to stand with the people, who want to kill them first.

See, this is how smart they are!

This is why it's going to work out well, in New York City.

Let me just say. If you have an ounce of common sense, you run a business, you have an ounce of wealth. And I don't mean wealth like, you know, hey, Lovey.

Let's get on the boat for a three-hour tour with a suitcase full of cash. I mean you saved anything, anything, get the hell out of New York City.

I mean, this is about survival. This is about free speech. This is about women's rights.
Religious pluralism. Secular legal systems. Liberal democracy.

But it's also about failed principles of Communism. Okay?

First, you have to call out political Islam for what it is. Okay?

And we have to do it with the clarity that we call out white nationalism.

Got to do it with that. Got to -- you know, the Klan. Really bad people.

Really bad people.

Anybody who is shouting for globalized intifada?

Pretty bad. Pretty bad people.

Okay?

Now, let's get to communism.

Because that's another cool, cool angle of the new Democratic candidate for -- for mayor of New York City.

That I just -- I think is cuddly and cute. Sure, it led to 100 million deaths. But this time, New York is going to be radically different. Oh, did I use the word radical?

I didn't mean to use that. What's radical about this guy?

Nothing. He's just like you!

Well, not exactly.

But let's talk about communism, next!

Now, the new mayoral candidate that's running there in New York City. That so many young people rushed to defend and vote for. He's promising free buses.

That's going to work out.

Where are you going to get the money for free buses.

It's free!

City-run grocery stores.

Oh, rent freezes. And finally somebody has done it. A 30-dollar minimum wage.

So under the banner of equity. And, you know, we will tax the wealthy. And the corporations. You know, we're going to squeeze another $10 billion out of them.

Really?

Because they're going to call a U-Haul.

You know, they will call something like U-Haul. There will be a lot of -- there will be a lot of movers that are like, how do I get the truck back from Texas or Florida back up to New York? Nobody is moving up there.

But he's going to do it.

Now, his vision isn't really new. You know, just -- just tax people, so we could have city-run grocery stores. You know, I remember -- I'm old enough to remember those city-run grocery stores in Moscow.

They were great.

The shelves were empty.

But that's just Moscow.

It worked out completely different in Venezuela.

Where, oh, no.

It didn't. That's right. The grocery store.

They were eating the zoo animals.

But it will be different in New York.

Because they have rent controls too.

And that will just choke the housing supply, but don't worry. As a young family.

You know, you voted for it.

You know better.

It will work this time.

So, you know, I like building ideas, I just don't like usually building on the graves of 100 million people.

But, you know, why not? Why not?

You know, use this dogma.

And this time, it will be different. It's not like it was in China. Where the great leap forward, was a gross -- a gross parody of progress. Venezuela, which was oil rich. One of the richest nations in the hemisphere now sees 90 percent of its population in poverty!

Yeah. Darn it. You know what they did?

They decided to take state control of things.

You know, like grocery stores. And it worked out well. How is that free busing working out in Venezuela?

I just want to -- I just want to know.

Anyway, then you've got the globalize the intifada. Which is going to drop a little violence in, and anti-Semitism in with your communism.

Which is weird!

Because violence and anti-Semitism, always happen. When it -- when it comes to -- when it comes to communism.

This is weird!

I've got to play something for you. Because this has talked about on me earlier this morning.

Oh, wow.

Wait a minute. This is -- this is the whole coalition coming together here.

So this is going to be good. New York, this is going to be great.

It's going to be great for you.

No. He's going to uplift you. Then the social fabric of New York City is just going to be -- just one.

It's going to be fantastic. Don't worry about your 120 billion dollars in debt. Or your 10 billion-dollar deficit that you have right now.

You are going to charge the rich more taxes, and they will stay right there.

They will be like, you know what, that 46 percent in taxes that I'm paying, this is just not enough. It's just not enough.

I need to pay 60 or 70 percent to be able to pay my fair share. So that's good. That's good. That's good.

You know, they're not risking 100 million people. It's just 8 million people.

This time, it's just 8 million people.

But, hey. For those of you in upstate New York. That aren't going to be part of this experiment.

Don't worry, you get to pay for it. Because they'll kick it up to the state. The state will have to subsidize everything. And don't you love it?

Really, don't you want to subsidize the really crazy ideas of New York City?

I mean, why don't you have a -- why don't you have a democratic socialist. A/k/a communist mayor.

Why haven't you done that? Are you not progressive enough? Are you not looking into the future?

Are you stuck in the past?

I don't know. I don't know. The graveyard is pretty big. I have a hard time getting past that one. You know, yeah, so I'm stuck in the past. Because I can't seem to pass that graveyard, and get to be down the path with you. But it's going to be a paradise.

Forget arithmetic. You know, or human nature. This time, it's going to work. It's going to work. So all right!

Wish I lived in this morning.

No wait. Nope. I don't. Nope, I don't.

And Ted Cruz, stop it. Stop writing, hey, come to Texas. No. No. Don't come to Texas. Don't come to Florida. Go to California. It's beautiful this time of year. Go there. Go there.