RADIOApril 14, 2025

Colossal CEO: Did China's Human Experiments Make the CIA Fund Dire Wolves?

Why did Colossal Biosciences choose to bring back the dire wolf first, instead of the woolly mammoth or dodo bird? And why is does the CIA invest in them? Glenn speaks with Colossal co-founder and CEO Ben Lamm, who explains the dire wolf choice and makes the case that the U.S. must lead in “synthetic biology” technology before China does. Unlike Colossal, which Lamm says is NOT experimenting on humans or even primates, China has already admitted that it’s trying to make smarter humans. So, what kind of experiments is it doing in secret? Lamm also addresses the names of the 2 male dire wolves – Romulus and Remus – and what extinct animal the company plans to bring back next.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Ben Lamm, Colossal cofounder CEO. Welcome to the program.

BEN: Hey, thanks for having me back, Glenn. It's good to talk to you.

GLENN: You bet. It's good to talk to you. First of all, I have to show you this picture of George R.R. Martin with the dire wolf. I mean, that's brilliant. That's really brilliant.

BEN: George R.R. Martin, you know, made dire wolves popular in pop culture. Many people think they're a myth. But, you know, they were an American wolf.

They were the largest, strongest American wolf.

You know, we got challenged, you know, working on the mammoth, the Tasmanian tiger, and the dodo, but we got challenged by some of our indigenous partners and the government and a few others. Saying, why aren't you working first on an American species?

Like, why aren't you prioritizing that?

We got a lot of pressure and feedback.

When we got close to it, we were like, well, if we don't bring George R.R. Martin in, he's kind of mean. He's the guy who made them the most popular.

GLENN: You know, it kills me -- I did the same thing. I saw the video of the wolves howling and stuff, and little babies.

And I'm like, oh, they're so cute. They're an apex predator, been gone now for 10,000 years.

Why bring them back?

STEPHEN: So Colossal is a de-extinction and preservation company. Right?

And so we will lose up to 50 percent of biodiversity between now and 2050. And so we need new tools in the fight. Right? We think it's better to have the extinction tool kit and not need it, than not have the extinction toolkit and need it.

And so we're working on all these species. And we started having meetings with MHA Nation, one of the largest tribal groups here in the United States. And they started to give it the feedback that we need to do more for wolf conservation. Not enough going on in wolf conservation. It would be amazing if we could work on something like the great wolf.

So then they started filing it from their oral traditions, that they believe, that the great wolf was the dire wolf. I kind of sat with you -- again, the dire wolf?

So we had these great conversations, and then a few months later, we were in North Carolina.

And we learned that the most endangered wolf in the world, is the American wolf!

The red wolf, there's 15 left.

When you think about Americana, you think about the bison, you think about the bald eagle, and you think about wolves.

It would be a travesty to lose these.

GLENN: Yeah, but wait. But wait, wait, wait.

I mean, I live in -- for half the year in a place that has mountain lions and wolves.

They're both very, very important to have.

BEN: Oh, yeah.

GLENN: But they're also spooky as hell.

BEN: Yeah.

GLENN: You're not talking about -- you're not talking about preserving that species.

You just introduced a species that's been gone for 10,000 years!

BEN: Yeah. We have. And they are in a secure, expansive ecological reserve in the north.

And if they ever go back into the wild. It would be in collaboration with the government as well as some of the tribes. And they would go back on secure private lands. They are to be dire wolves.

I think you're not going to be walking down the street, worried about dire wolves.

GLENN: Yeah. Well, I just know, last time, the government got involved with wolves, it was a Yellowstone, and that didn't work out well for anybody.

BEN: You know, rewilding -- rewilding works, as long as it's done thoughtfully and managed. And the problem is, is sometimes people just get so overzealous on certain sides of the table, that they just go out and buck the patriarchy.

It really needs to be studied. It really needs to be managed. It needs to be thoughtfully taken out. But a lot of times people don't realize that, and they just get overzealous. Right?

And they politicize it.

At the end of the day, losing biodiversity, it should be a bipartisan -- and we really need to save these animals. And so by doing what we're doing, Glenn, we're actually building technology to save animals.

And so we were actually able to clone.

No one is talking about this. This is crazy. We are actually able to clone four red wolves, with more genetic diversity than the existing 15 that are still left in the wild.

That's a 25 percent bump in genetic diversity, that has been gone, you know, for tens -- you know, for over a decade.

GLENN: Okay. So, I mean, you -- you describe your company.

I'm sorry. I love the technology. I love what you're doing. I love the way you think.

It's also terrifying.

BEN: I know. We talk a lot about it.

The last time I talked to you. You asked about the CIA.

But, you know, we fall into a category called synthetic biology.

Right? So being able to use AI in software, as well as able to edit and rewrite genomes, is really critical technology.

It's as important technology as space technology. And other deindustrialized technologies.

And our adversaries are advancing. And we are trying --

GLENN: Let me. Because I -- this is -- like everything now, especially with AI. Any of this -- CRISPR. All of this technology.

You can't stop it. You can't put it back in the bottle. Because others are doing it.

BEN: Correct.

GLENN: What China is doing with this. Trying to breed smarter humans. Stronger humans.

You know, fighters. I mean, it's -- the stuff of Nazi movies.

BEN: That's actually what they said publicly.

So everything you're saying, is what they said publicly.

They said that the sequencing, many humans as possible.

They use COVID as this ruse to pull in as many things as possible. Sequencing them.

Then they say, they are looking for the genes that are making the smartest people. And we are going to engineer people.

That's not even crazy, concerned conspiracies.

They have said that out loud. So what have they not said out loud?

GLENN: Right. Any idea what they haven't said out loud?

BEN: I mean, if you think about what colossal is trying to do, right? We're trying to at least do it.

We don't do anything with humans. Even if we work with the federal government. We have this moratorium, that we're not working with humans. Only animals. We're working -- nonhuman primates. We're only working on species, but we are going to these technologies, and that application to humans, right?

And we are understanding from like a 72,000-year-old scull, what made a dire wolf bigger and stronger. And had a bigger jaw. And stronger muscles. And denser bones. We can now understand that with our technology. And engineer that into our -- being the gray wolf. Right?

So think about that same type of data, applied to humans. Right?

I think you can look at it, as adversarial countries. Advancing in technologies. In a way where they can look at, how can we enhance humans?

For us, we as an American company. That works very closely with the federal government. The Secretary of Interior just endorsed our work. And we work very closely with the Department of Interior.

GLENN: It's not necessarily an endorsement on my audience lines. You should deemphasize that with my audience. Because that's not a good thing.

BEN: It's not what anyone likes.

GLENN: Okay. All right. Yeah. Good for you. Good for you. Yeah.

BEN: I think it's important for us to always be -- Colossal, we're pretty bipartisan. We work with both sides. But I do think it's important to be transparent when things happen. And I think that us as America has to lead in synthetic biology. And Colossal is one of the most --

GLENN: So what is the difference between directed evolution and playing God?

BEN: It's a great question. You asked me this last time, right? I think that we as humans play God quite a bit, right? So I will look at it from an ecosystems perspective. When we overfish the ocean or we cut too much down of the rain forest, we are playing God at some level. When we eradicate species. But now we have these tools and technology that we can bio bank species, protect them, and even bring them back. And I think this will be even helpful for how we balance progress. As well as how we balance protection.

And I think that we need these tools now more than ever. Because we can lose up to 50 percent of all life on earth, between now and 2050, that's the current trend line.

GLENN: So, you know, AI is dangerous.
It's glorious. And horrifying at the same time.

Just depends on, you know, who is using it. And how that thing goes.

And it's judge Elon Musk says, we have to have -- we have to have the singularity, as -- as defined as human computer interface.

So we -- we merge as one.

That's not -- that's something of sci-fi movies.

Do you believe that the genetic editing tech, that you are helping to design, is going to be transferred to humans.

Is there a time that you think, oh, well, that probably has to?

BEN: I think that we will be able to look -- one of the biggest things that Colossal works on is what's called multi-splice editing. Being able to edit multiple parts of the genome, at the exact same time.

Right? And so that's part of what we really, really need to continue to advance these. Most in deep states, specifically one that drives, you know, predispositions to cancer are multi-genic in nature. Right?

So for us, I think it's very, very important to advance those technologies, so that you probably about sickle cell anemia, whether it's CRISPR tools and technologies that are being used to do a single knockout.

But most genes, or most of these are multi-genic in nature.

You have to be able to edit multi-part of the genome.

I think a lot of our technologies will be beneficial long-term, to help us cure any inherent -- that's a good thing!

GLENN: How much of this is AI-driven?

STEPHEN: I think 30 percent of our work, what would be possible without AI.

GLENN: And imagine that number is growing exponentially. I mean, I know our --

BEN: Exponentially -- exponentially.

GLENN: You know, you name the dire wolves Romulus and Remus, and I'm not a mythology expert, but I do know, abandoned at birth, raised by wolves, found in Rome. Yada, yada, yada, but didn't Romulus also kill Remus.

BEN: Yeah. Romulus. Romulus is the big one. They do love each other. So we're hoping that not all of history will repeat itself, right? So we're -- we're pretty -- we're pretty bullish on, it will work out better this round.

GLENN: Okay. Good. Good. So am I, I guess. I mean, I guess I'm rooting for that. All of us are together on that one.

That's a great goal to have.

BEN: We're all rooting for the fall of Rome.

GLENN: What is the next thing that you talk about that we'll tell the world about some day?

BEN: Yeah. So we're making a lot of progress. I think we're on the very cusp of a pretty big breakthrough for the dodo project. Right?

Talk about dire wolves and dodos. You know, we made some updates on the Tasmanian tiger. And other --

GLENN: Can we slow down on the apex predators, just a little bit?

BEN: They're very important. I mean, look, elephants kill more people than wolves. There are -- you have five wolf attacks confirmed in the last 100 years. You have a higher probability of getting struck by lightning, while getting eaten by a shark, than getting attacked by a wolf.

GLENN: No, I know that, but have you ever been in the wild?

BEN: I have been, yeah.

GLENN: The wolf walks up? Terrifying.

BEN: I've actually never been -- I've been very close to wolves, in certain ecological preserves.

GLENN: Yeah, no. I've been on my own land, and a wolf walks out from the bushes, and you're like, oh, dear God. Because they are spooky.

BEN: Yeah. In that way. It's definitely spooky, right?

Mountain lions and wolves personally. But I saw a mountain lion first.

The scariest thing I ever saw was, I was actually in Cape Tribulation in Australia once, and a Castlereagh bird walking out, and that seemed like a living velociraptor. And it was just me.

I was by myself. And I was like, I'm going to die. They are very aggressive.

They're very hard to -- look, living with nature is what we've got. Right? We have to figure out how we do that. In our next species, we probably have a big update on, is the dodo. We're very close to a fundamental step in the dodo resurrection. We don't have dodos. We haven't for a long time, but I do think we're pretty close to a fundamental step --

GLENN: Okay. One last thing. You say that you are trying to help species survive. Because we are going to lose all these species.

Why are you bringing things back like the dire wolves?

Humans didn't have anything to do with the extinction. Why are you bringing those back?

BEN: Well, so anthropologic effects, if you can look at kind of the rapid, you know, Younger Dryas cooling period. Also, compared globally, not just in America, of the rise of anthropologic effects. Early humans did drive a lot of the extinction of Megaphonics here in the United States, as well as globally.

I do think there's a lot of data that is starting to suggest, some of the affects -- of the Dryas Cooling Period. That was a rapid period. That may have had meteorological effects that affected it, right?

So for us, we want to build these. We want to use these technologies, to bring back these species.

So that we can study them.

We can look to re-wild them, if it makes sense. And also pair them to build technology for wolves, right? In the case of the dire wolf. In the case of the mammoth.

And one of the things that no one really talks about is every single week, we get dozens of letters from parents and kids, and pictures of little woolly mammoths and dodos. Hopefully now dire wolves. And people are telling us and teachers are telling us, that their kids are excited about science now.

Right?

And people are getting more and more excited about science. And so if you ask a teacher or a parent about colossal, many of them know.

More teachers than parents know, because kids are telling them in the classroom. And I think we need science now more than ever.

And I think kids are excited about science, through the extinction, while also helping conservation is a really good thing.

Ben, there is no better spokesperson for Colossal, than you. Colossal cofounder and CEO, Ben Lamm. Thanks, Ben, for being on. I appreciate it, God bless.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Why Your Actions Matter More Than Words in the Eyes of God

Glenn Beck and Eric Metaxas expose the spiritual crisis gripping America’s churches — a moment they compare to Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s warning before World War II. As the culture descends into moral confusion, too many Christians retreat into silence, claiming faith while refusing to act. Together, they argue that true belief demands courage — that “faith without works is dead” — and warn that neutrality in the face of evil is itself a form of complicity.

Watch the FULL Interview HERE

Is Socialism replacing the American dream?

The American Dream used to mean freedom and the chance to build your own life through hard work, faith, and independence. But today, it’s been replaced by comfort, consumption, and debt. Glenn Beck breaks down how America traded liberty for lifestyle, why socialism is gaining ground, and what it will take to reclaim the real American Dream before it disappears for good.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I don't know if you saw the visualizing the American dream, Stu.

You know, what the American dream actually is, is that you can forge your own way.

You can -- you know, you can have a scrap of land, and grow your own food if up.

You can, you know, go to school. Not go to school.

You can find a job. If you're qualified for it, you have an equal chance of getting it, you know, based on merit.

But the percentage of Americans who say the American dream is retirement is 86 percent. Health care, 86 percent. Owning a home, 85. Raising two kids, 78. Owning a car, 72. Vacations, 71. Pets, 66. A wedding, 55 percent. That's the American dream, I can get married.

The American dream, if that's what you think, they've now estimated, the cost per household over the cost -- over the lifetime, retirement is $1.6 million. Owning a home now, 30-year mortgage, 20 percent you want to, is $957,594. Owning a car, buying and finance to begin with new cars every ten years is now $900,000 over your lifetime. Raising two kids to 18, plus four years of public college, $876,092. Two kids. Health care, over your lifetime, spending from ages 22 to 85, $414,000. Vacations, annual vacation from '22 to '85, $180,000. One dog and one cat for 11 to 13 years is $40,000!

That's more expensive than a wedding. The engagement ring, the ceremony, and the reception is now estimated to be $38,200.

There's a reason socialism is doing well. You look at that, and you're like, wow. I mean, if that's the American dream. And for a lot of people, that is the American dream!

That's not what the American dream is supposed to be, but, you know, once -- you know, once Woodrow Wilson and FDR got a hold of us and they started advertising, it became stuff instead of freedom. It became stuff. And, you know, when there's a new report out. Let me see if I have that.

There's a new report out now that shows, first time home buyers made up just 21 percent of the home purchases. That's the lowest on record.

The typical age of repeat buyers hit an all-time high of '62. The median downtowns, reaching 23 percent.

The highest since 2023.

And also, where is it?

The last one is -- the median age for first time home buyers, in 1981, it was 29 years old.

I'm sorry. Yeah. Twenty-nine years old. In 2021, it was 33 years old.

What is it this year?

Median age, first time homeowner, forty.

You're 40 before you can buy any kind of home. That puts these things that people want, dream about, out of reach, until you're 40?

You know, 29 is one thing. But if you're not seeing -- you're not seeing your life really kind of settling down until you're 40, I -- I can understand why you're like, you know what, this system doesn't work.

Because you've never seen it work. It's betrayed you.

Or so you've been sold. It's betrayed you.

And everything is being pushed out of your reach. And when you're young, the one thing you're not is patient.

And at 40, I can see why people are not, you know, yeah. Well, socialism is neat because capitalism isn't working. How would you respond to that?

STU: I mean, it's more lengthy than we have time for. But I would say that the response to, you know, you thinking that you want a home is not to embrace an ideology that murders 100 million people.

That's not -- that's not a good answer to the problem that you think you have.

GLENN: But they're not learning that anywhere.

They're not -- that is our responsibility! To teach those things. Because they're not learning it anywhere.

Glenn Beck Warns of 3 Economic Outcomes That Could Change EVERYTHING | Ep 467

Socialism is spreading fast among America’s youth, and the shocking election of Democratic Socialist Zohran Mamdani for mayor in New York City marks a major cultural and economic shift. Glenn exposes how runaway debt, record home prices, AI job disruption, and the collapsing stake in capitalism have led many Millennials and members of Gen Z to embrace socialism and communism. He reveals the three possible economic futures for 2026: two that are disastrous and one that could change everything if the Trump administration’s global financial overhaul succeeds. Plus, Justin Haskins, president of the Heartland Institute, joins to reveal some terrifying truths about why young Americans are embracing socialism from a poll he conducted with Rasmussen Reports.

Glenn Beck warns: We're already in World War III

"The world doesn't understand yet. We're already in World War III," Glenn Beck warns. "That foe is not China. That foe is militant Islam." Glenn explains the battle we're currently facing and what's to come if we don't wake up soon...

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: From New Jersey, it's Brian. Hello, Brian.

CALLER: Hello!

GLENN: Hey.

CALLER: Yeah. Thanks for taking the calls today.

GLENN: Sure.

CALLER: Yeah. I'm worried that we are headed towards another French Revolution-style because we have entire generations. Or actually people just not being heard by their representatives.

GLENN: Hmm.

CALLER: And it's not just here. It's around the world.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

I -- actually, I had scheduled for this time, I'll just do it some other time. Talking about what's happening in -- in England.

I think England is headed for a Civil War. And -- and it's very close.

I mean, you can't put 4,000 people. 4,000 people, in jail, or try them for hate crimes. And speech crimes.

You can't -- you can't do it. In England!

You can't do that in one year. And expect people to just put up with it!

You can't -- you know, we're -- we're -- America doesn't understand yet.

The world doesn't understand.

We're in World War III. We're already in World War III.

I don't know when it becomes a hot war. Or even a war that we on our side recognize. But we are in World War III. And that -- that foe is not China.

That foe is militant Islam, period. And, you know, when we have a situation to where people are -- when the government is just like, no. It's not a problem.

It's not a problem. You know. You've got illegals all over.

It's not a problem.

It's not a problem.

It is a problem. Don't tell me what -- what the problems are not!

Because we're the ones living it!

You're the experts, who keep telling us, no. It's going to work out fine.

And it doesn't work out fine. And it just gets worse and worse.

Oh. We can spend this money. No. It looks like we can't spend this money. Oh, we can afford this. No. It looks like we can't afford this.

You know, if we do this with Ukraine, it will work out fine. No, it didn't, did it? These endless wars, all of this stuff, don't tell me what the problem is. Listen to the people and start talking to the people. Honestly, this is the reason why I'm doing this today. I -- I need to hear from you.

I need to know what's on your mind, so I stay focused and -- and clear on what America is saying.

Because I don't think -- look, you know, me taking phone calls is -- is not a true representation of anything, but it does give me a sense of -- of where you are, as an audience. Maybe not as America, but as an audience. And there are lots of things that concern me. But I want to hear it from you.
But I think you're right! We're headed for real, real trouble. All you need is real economic trouble.

You start getting real, true economic trouble. 1930s kind of depression stuff. And we're in Civil War.

Dan, Oregon. Welcome!

CALLER: Hello, Glenn. How are you?

GLENN: I'm great!

CALLER: Yeah. Good. It's been a long time.

I guess it's been over ten years, since I've had a chance to talk with you. I was one of your first insiders. I was listening to you, since you were in Florida.

GLENN: Wow. Wow.

CALLER: So it's been a long -- yeah. It has been. And I can't say I've enjoyed all of it.
(laughter)

GLENN: Neither have I!

STU: I can't say that either, I'll be honest with you.

CALLER: You know, you were talking on yesterday's show, reminiscing with Stu about how you guys started. And I remember those old shows. And, you know, at the end of the -- the fusion of entertainment and enlightenment.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: Right.

CALLER: And there was a lot more entertainment. I remember I laughed a lot.

GLENN: Oh, yeah. I know. I know. Those days are long dead.
(laughter)

STU: There's nothing to laugh about now.

CALLER: Yeah. I -- I'm 78. I still work 40 hours a week. I love my job.

GLENN: Good for you.

CALLER: Been married for 55 years. I have seven kids.

GLENN: Good for you.

CALLER: I've got a daughter -- I've got a daughter who is in her 40s. And she has severe TDS. She -- we don't -- I mean, we're not cutting each other off. She hasn't done that at all. We're still very close as a family. But she was down visiting the other day, and got into a conversation with my wife. And I wasn't in the room. But Kathy said it was just like listening to one of those young people out on the street that was being interviewed by the news media. And she was -- and she was in tears about it. My wife and my daughter both.

And, I mean, I love her, and I continue to support her. She's a single woman, not by choice. She just never found the right guy.

GLENN: Yeah.

CALLER: And I really think that's part of the problem. Because she started reading -- back when Trump was first running, she started reading all of this stuff about him being misogynistic and all of this stuff.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

CALLER: And it's just gotten worse. I -- I'm at a loss. I really am. Because I -- like, I see the country doing better. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. But I still feel like that at least right now, we're doing better as a whole. But what do we do about -- what do we do about our kids about -- she went to Portland State University for the last two --

GLENN: Oh, jeez, for the love of --

CALLER: Well, yeah. For the last two years, she went to -- she went to a little college in Idaho called Ricks for the first two years, and Utah State.

GLENN: Oh, yeah.

CALLER: And then she served a mission for our church in Brazil and came home, but then she went to Portland State University. And it just seems to have gone downhill from there.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. So, Dan, I think you are suffering from the same thing that almost all parents are suffering from. If you're not suffering from this, then, I mean, God bless you. You know, get on your knees and thank God. Because you are a lucky, lucky family. Everybody has in their family. I have it in my family.

And you have to ask yourself, what is your goal?

My -- what is your goal with your daughter? Your real goal?

CALLER: My real goal is for us to be united eternally. That's my goal. That's my goal as a father and has been to teach her --

GLENN: And how -- and how is that going to happen with politics?

CALLER: We just stay together as a family regardless of what politics does.

GLENN: That's exactly right. Exactly right.

I think we're in a place now where as parents, you can ask your kids, but it has to be honest. It cannot be trying to win. It has to be honest. How did you get there?

I mean, I remember. You know, we've talked about this before. And you didn't believe that before. What has changed?

Can you help me with that?

I would like to see what you're reading, or what that was.

And just ask questions. But they have to be honest. They can't be, you know, because I'm setting you up. Because I want to change your mind.

But keep a dialogue open with them. And just love them!

Just love them!

Because if you do anything else, you're going to drive them away. And then they're really lost. So just love them.

CALLER: Oh, I know that. Glenn, when she was young -- when she was young, I considered her one of the elect. And the Scripture says, that in the last days, even the elect are going to be deceived. And that's what I'm seeing. But everything you've said, I -- I am doing. I'm doing it that way. Because I know --

GLENN: Okay. Good. Then you didn't need to -- I appreciate it. I'm so glad you called me. But you didn't need to -- my advice, you already have it down. You're a very wise man.