Minnesota is facing what may be the largest welfare fraud scheme in American history. Christopher Rufo joins Glenn Beck to expose how Somali-run networks siphoned hundreds of millions in taxpayer funds through fake child-care and food programs, money that federal officials say was funneled through Somalia’s Hawala system, where Al-Shabaab takes its cut. Rufo reveals how state leaders protected these networks, how political incentives and “suicidal empathy” blinded Minnesota’s institutions, and why the corruption spreading through the welfare system is far more widespread than anyone wants to admit. This is not just a crime story... It’s a warning about immigration policy, cultural incompatibility, and the collapse of accountability in modern liberal states.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So I first ran into Chris Rufo, oh, I don't even know how many lifetimes ago. He was working for the city journal. And he was starting to uncover things. And he started to do investigations on things he cared about. And all of a sudden, he's one of the best investigative reporters out there.

Extraordinarily credible.

Right almost every single time.

And he is joining us, at the Blaze. He is the host now of his own TV show. Rufo and Lomez.

And he is the guy who broke the story a couple weeks ago. About the Minnesota taxpayers who are funding a terrorist group. Al-Shabaab. I don't know. Is that a problem?

Can I ask you, am I more outraged?

And I haven't paid any Minnesota tax. Am I more outraged than the people of Minnesota?

I mean, I know there's origins up there. So Norwegians are like, yeah, sure. I mean, you know, they don't seem to get very excited about. And they're very, you know, socialized and everything else. They're very big heart. Blah, blah, blah. And they don't seem to -- you know, Swedish, Norwegian, you know. But is there any point where they're outraged? Is there any point where they're like, you know what, this socialization thing is good, but not like this? This socialized, hey, let's help everybody, but not like this. I mean, you have a billion dollars taken from the taxpayers. A billion.

Is -- and I don't hear anything from the people of -- I mean, if you're -- if you were taken for a billion dollars and your money -- you knew was being taken away from children who need food, they were faking all kinds of health issues for other children, and so taking money away from real autistic programs and then putting it in and sending it to a terror group. Wouldn't you be kind of pissed?

Because I know I would be.

Are the people in Minnesota pissed about it?

I don't know.

I mean, I don't think. If it was my state. I don't think the governor would be in the governor's office. But maybe that's just had he. Christopher Rufo joins me now.

Chris, we were just talking about -- thank you for not only this story, but all the stories and things you have exposed over the years. Thank you for doing all of the hard work, and being credible the whole time.

It doesn't -- am I more outraged by this story than the people of Minneapolis? Because they don't seem to have a problem with it. Is it just me?

JASON: It's even more bizarre, actually. You're outraged about the proper thing to be outraged about. Which is that a group that is a recent arrival was permitted, or asylum, refugee status into the United States. Has now systematically looted the Treasury of the state of Minnesota. But Minnesota politicians are also outraged, but they're outraged that we notice this.

And that we've called this out. And that we're saying, this is not okay. So you have the mayor of Minneapolis, speaking in Somali, saying that he will do whatever he can.

GLENN: Unbelievable.

CHRIS: Do whatever he can to shelter the Somali community from any criticism at all.

And, I mean, find this borderline suicidal. And the Scandinavian. Kind of the Scandinavian founding culture of Minnesota, is just being statistically exploited. And they seem to have no ability to even defend themselves against it.

GLENN: Yeah. I mean, what's happened to Sweden is happening in -- you know, in -- in Minnesota.

It's just -- they take the kindness and the socialized everything. And they just absolutely abuse it, until there is nothing left.

And, you know, I don't -- let me ask the question.

And I want to be really careful here. Because I -- and I know you're not.

Nobody is reasonably saying this. That all Somalis just want to rip us off. Not true. I think there's probably a lot of people that wanted to get away from Somalia, because it is an absolutely corrupt system.

And now, our politicians are just recreating, you know, what they had in Somalia. And I can't believe that everybody from Somalia and Minnesota is for that.

But when you -- when you look at where they came from, that is the way their government works.

It is so rife with corruption. Is this something that is being imported, or is this just a handful of bad guys?

CHRIS: Well, it's a little bit of both. And as you said, we have to be careful and precise as we think about it. What's happening, obviously, not every Somali is participating in these fraud schemes.

GLENN: Correct.

CHRIS: But it's true that many, many, many, many -- an extraordinarily high percentage of people in the Somali community were participating in these schemes, prosecutors have told me that there are dozens of these schemes that have been perpetrated. And some of them are involving dozens and in some cases hundreds of families. And so we're talking about a very high percentage of the population. But the -- the point is this: Related to immigration. We always have had an immigration system that makes group level analysis.

And so small ease, for example, for many decades, now, have been given special privileges, in America's immigration system.

You have special status for asylum, for refugee programs. And so we have rewarded Somalis on the basis of -- of a group identity.

And I think that it's totally fair to say, hey. Wait a minute.

We can't take everyone from around the world. We have to prioritize by group.

We can't judge every single human being around the world as an individual.

And the reality is that the Somali community is not coming as individuals. They're coming as a community. And so you can say, you know, there are absolutely great people. Wonderful Somalis.

The incredible Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a Somali.
Incredible woman.

GLENN: Incredible.

CHRIS: But the fact is that they're bringing the cultural systems from Somalia to the United States, and they are just fundamentally incompatible. That's the brass tacks. The bottom line. The end of the story.

And -- and what I was looking for and hoping for, was that Somali leaders would stand up and say, what's happening in our community is wrong.
We're going to work with. We're going to work with law enforcement to stamp out this corruption within our own house. But instead, they have gone just the opposite. They are promising that members of their communities. No criticism. And should operate with impunity.

GLENN: Tim Walz and even the mayor. How do they survive this?

CHRIS: Here's -- here's the actual, sad truth. I know conservatives are waiting for the backlash to sweep away these corrupt leaders and these feckless and incompetent politicians. But there's something about liberal culture, where no amount of chaos, corruption, crime, murder, you know, theft, can dissuade them from their core beliefs that our society is bad. And as a form of penance or -- or -- or kind of self-flagellation. We have to accept any amount of crime, provided that it's committed by people who can check the identity boxes. And so I'm actually pessimistic, and skeptical of the idea that Minnesota voters are going to rise up. And command that this corruption stop.

GLENN: You know, I remember Michele Bachmann came to my apartment when I was living in New York City, probably about 2008, maybe '9. And she sat me down and she said, Glenn, you have to pay attention to what's happening to my State Department, in Minnesota.

And I said, what do you mean?

She said, they're moving whole communities into Minnesota. And she's like -- and I said, communities. What do you mean?

She said, Somalis.

And I'm like, why would they be moving to Minnesota? What?

You miss being surrounded by feet of snow for six months out of the year? And she said, no. She said, it is the State Department.

It's like they selected, you know, Minnesota, and moved people in as a communist community.

Was this -- was this done. I mean, I'm having a hard time separating.

Like USAID.

I know what that is. We all know what that is. This is corruption. And they knew exactly what they were doing.

Is this incompetence, just corruption?

Is there planning involved in this.

Is this, you know, I hate America so much.

Cloward and Piven.

What is this?

GLENN: So there are two arguments that have been floated to answer, this an attempt to answer this question.

The first argument is that the left knows how to gain power. And by importing dependent foreign groups into the -- into the populace, they have a client that can provide them with votes. In exchange for patronaging. Or in this case, corruption.

And that is a strategy to amplify their own domestic political power. The other hypothesis. And I think for me, the more persuasive hypothesis. Is that this is just simple, liberal, naivete. And a kind of suicidal empathy, where they are blind to the consequences of their own actions.

They judge on inputs rather than outputs. And for them, the measure is how compassionate they can be.

And any imposition of limits or consequences is seen as a violation of core liberal principles. You know, it might be a combination of the two. But I don't -- you know, again, barring evidence that emerges, I would assume that it's more the latter than the former.

GLENN: How do we know for sure that money went to Al-Shabaab?

CHRIS: Great question. First of all, there have been schemes over the last decade, where counterterrorism officials tell me that every time they're looking at ISIS recruiting, al-Shabaab recruiting, radical Islamist recruiting, Minneapolis always shows up. And, in fact, it's really the epicenter of foreign terror recruitment in the United States of America. But on a particular question of Al-Shabaab, there is the testimony of multiple counterterrorism officials who told us, hey. Some of this money is getting siphoned off. And essentially taxed by the Al-Shabaab terror network. Once it leaves the United States. And goes into the Somali informal banking system. But this is really not in dispute. Even a left-evening group like the foundation for domestic democracy has long noted that Al-Shabaab skins almost all remittance that travel through the country of Somalia.

And, therefore, it stands to reason, if -- if people are stealing from the Minnesota government, sending that money back to Somali, through the remittence system, and Al-Shabaab is taking their cut. We're talking about a significant amount of money, whether it's intentional or unintentional, that the end result is the same. Al-Shabaab is receiving American taxpayer dollars that were stolen and routed through their network.

STU: So how is this stopped?

Because I don't think anything in Minnesota will happen. How's this stop?

It feels honestly. Know better than I do. It feels like the tip of the iceberg. I mean, today, the story from the GAO on Obamacare. That's completely out of control. USAID. This is happening.

I mean, tip of the iceberg. How do we stop this, if our politicians won't do anything in the states?

CHRIS: Well, there's two things that we can do. I think first off, in this particular case. Federal prosecutors have done a great job, uncovering these Somali fraud rings. And implementing prosecutions. And so they really deserved enormous credit.

But the federal government should do much more.

And I would recommend that Health and Human Services. And other departments at the federal level. Start all payments to Minnesota. Until they have a third party audit. Until they get their fraud under control.

And, you know, ultimately, you have to stop giving these people money, if you want them to change their behavior. And so I think a stop payment order on all federal funding to Minnesota programs where there are suspicions of fraud. Will help clean things up fairly quickly.

The reality is, we have a system in the United States. Where it's always a third party payer.

Health insurance, welfare programs. Food stamps, autism services.

Whatever it might be. These are massive third person payer programs. The incentives are, you know, not aligned with people actually enforcing the rules. And they become easy targets for fraudsters.

And so Minnesota used to be famous for honesty, fair dealing, good government.

GLENN: Oh, yeah.
CHRIS: And in just a short number of decades, their reputation has now been completely inverted.

And it is, by all accounts. From all of the research that I've done, I think this is likely the largest statistic welfare fraud scheme, in American history.