RADIOApril 10, 2025

Dire warning from economist: Trump’s next move could save—or sink—the economy

President Trump suspended his global tariffs for 90 days, except for China. But is this strategy enough to win the trade war and fix the economy? Glenn speaks with renowned economist Richard Werner, who makes the case that Trump’s next move should take place here at home. It’s not enough, he argues, to pressure the big banks. He must also cut the government red tape and help local banks flourish. Plus, Werner also argues that Trump is fighting a hidden enemy in Europe: the CIA.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Richard Werner. He is an economist. You can find him at ProfessorWerner.org.

ProfessorWerner.org. Richard Werner. Professor, how are you, sir?

RICHARD: Very well, thank you. Good to be on your program.

GLENN: Yeah. Good to have you on again. You are looking at the situation, and it is changing by the hour. What are you feeling, especially you're -- you're from Germany. Are you still in Germany today? Or are you here in the United States?

RICHARD: I'm actually in the US, in Florida as well.

GLENN: All right. What is happening in Germany and in Europe, and how is -- how this whole trade thing affecting everybody?

RICHARD: Well, it is affecting everyone.

Because actually, if you have the sort of lists of terrorists.

And where it was last week. Presently suspended.

If you look at the numbers. For some countries.

There were significant changes. And potentially, even now, that they're being suspended.

They're still in place with China. Very, very high numbers.

You mentioned, you know, in triple digit percentage. Tariff.

To China. And China retaliating. And as it's escalating. That's very dangerous.

Because China is part of the supply chains, across the globe. Even in other countries.

And, of course, the US.

Trump has a point. The US is the most attractive market. And exports being -- so it's true. That the US had some leverage there.

The question is, what do we want to achieve? And how do we go about it, in order to make sure we actually achieve it?

There is a risk, a situation which it will escalate, particularly if there's confrontation now.

Later coming from China, it's a bad guy. And, you know, it's -- it's in Asia. It's very important, not to lose faith.

And not to be publicly humiliated.

GLENN: Yes. Right.

RICHARD: And at the moment, you know, of course that's why they can easily give in. Want to shut the opportunity, the opening for compromise.

GLENN: So what would --

RICHARD: At the moment, the way it's done, it is very hard.

GLENN: President Trump said this yesterday. He said: Look, it's important in China, that they don't lose faith. That they're not humiliated. And he said, I feel like they're being humiliated right now.

So what should he be doing, while still staying tough?

What kind of opportunity, should be presented, to de-escalate this?

RICHARD: I think it's important to take it off the -- I mean, President Trump is very -- publicly. But maybe in this case, where we are at this point.

It's an important thing.

You know, the public focus.

And have some private conversations with China's leadership.

And maybe they even suggest a way in which they may be done. Essentially, someone needs to face a solution that makes both sides look good.

This can be done because the Chinese are as much interested in, you know -- as President Trump is, they are commoners, trading, sort of doing deals.

So it just has to be done, in such a way, that they're not forced into a corner.

And then they feel obliged to also, you know, stand up to all of these people. And to then -- they actually should be at this stage.

So I think it can be done.

I mean, I would be glad to help. You know.

Get me into the Trump team.

I had good relations. I was invited to be the professor of finance as well, the top university, Fudan in Shanghai met very senior people in China. And I've been in Japan for 12 years. And I know how to talk to Asia.

At the moment, it was perhaps -- yeah. This -- this lack of the right approach.

But it's about, as you mentioned, that President Trump is now acknowledging this.

And I think this -- this creates an opening.

And with the right advice. The other point I would like to make actually. Is that I think it is very smart of President Trump to raise fundamentally, you know, the tariff issue.

And how the US has not always been treated equally by other countries. Right?

When it comes to trade and tariffs. That is very valid.

And Paris in history, have been, well, actually mixed. They have been very successful and good for America and other countries. They use in combination with the right policies.

GLENN: Yes, uh-huh.

RICHARD: Domestic policies. That's where I think the Trump team needs some good advice. The Trump team knows the official mainstream neoclassical economics is not to be trusted.

And that's very true. But they're still acting with the right advice. I'm an expert of high brow economics, and I think the US can have 15 percent growth in 14 years like China had.

Which can be done. There is no real --

GLENN: What needs to happen? What needs to happen? What is he missing?

I think what is missing is the Congress doing their jobs. And putting other things in place. What are you saying, that is missing?

RICHARD: Yes. Well, a key thing is -- is to do with money.

And those who create money.

Now, the fed has created a lot of money.

Too much. And has caused inflation and everything.

But actually, normally central banks, only create 3 percent of the money.

97 percent of the money supply normally is created by the banks!

The banking system.

And the banks normally. And this is capitalism.

Where central planners are making decisions.

Private, commercially. Enterprises making decisions.

And so the more diverse banking system.

Particularly, the more small local banks you have, the stronger the economy. The stronger job creation.

GLENN: Yes.

RICHARD: And that's where in the past, the US has been extremely strong. But in recent years, you know, the -- have really reduced the number of small local banks.

And it's collapsed in the number of community banks. And local banks. Almost across the United States.

And that's very bad for job creation, and then competitiveness. And China is the best case in point.

You know, they used to have this centralized Soviet-style system, you know, in only one bank.

And then when they deleted -- you know, in 1978. He felt -- let's forget about all this ideology, under Mao. Chairman Mao. Let's deliver -- let's deliver performance and growth.

And how do we do it? Well, let's learn from those who did it.

And it went to Japan and ask China, what's your secret of success?

And they told them. You need -- you need banks. How many banks do you have?

One bank. Are you serious? For 600 million people at the time. Something like that.
You need more banks than that, how about 5,000. And that's what he did.

He went back to China to create this 5,000 small banks, local banks, billionaire banks. Credit unions. Regional banks. Rural savings banks. Conventional banks.

GLENN: So what does Trump need to do to do that here? What does he need to do to create that here? What should he be encouraging?

RICHARD: Well, first of all, one needs to take the pressure off the small banks to merge. Because the Federal Reserve and the FDIC have been closing banks. That's why thousands of banks have disappeared in the US. Job. Job creation. Job creation. But who is the main employer? It is small firms.

They've been employed between 65 and 75 percent of total employment. And there's a special thing about small firms, and they can't get money from Capitol markets.

GLENN: Correct.

RICHARD: Wall Street is not open to them. The only external source of funding is banks. Local banks that -- big banks don't lend to small firms. It doesn't make sense. So who lends to small firms?

It's only small banks. That's why American policy is very strong. They were going a few decades back. More than 20,000 banks.

And they need these thousands and thousands of small local banks. Community banks.

But the regulators. And the centralization. Have led to mergers. And the number of banks have been going down rapidly.

For some reason, they think it's a good idea. Same in Europe. You know, the European Central Bank says, we have too many banks. We have to close the small local bank. Well, that's how you kill the middle class.

That's really what happens to the middle class. That the small firms are not supported anymore. There's new technology coming out. The small firms. They're not necessarily, the innovators.

But they're ones that have to quickly adapt, adopt a new technology, but for that, you need money!

If you have a small local bank that knows you, you will get your funding. You can upgrade. You can maintain the market share and stay competitive. And expand jobs, basically.

But in countries, where the banking system gets too concentrated.

The US now is at risk of becoming one of those countries.

Looking at the UK.

Five big banks. The small firm gets nothing from these big banks.

They have to do big business.

They lend to the hedge funds. In billions.

And that works for the big banks.

Is it really good that the US is headed that way? No. We have to change that. So we have to change policies, at the FDIC. They have to be bank friendly.

And therefore small firm friendly. And therefore employment friendly.

If we combine tariffs with the right monitoring and banking policy, the US can be hugely successful.

You know, Glenn, just help me to get to the Trump team.

GLENN: I'll put a word in for you. But I'm lucky to talk to the janitor.

So, Richard, let me -- let me go to Europe here for a second.

Because I think what Trump is trying to do, on many of his things is to break this elite, almost world economic forum grip on dismantling the West. He doesn't believe in the -- you know, slow decline of the West.

He is looking to change directions, 180 degrees.

And I think that's part of what these tariffs on Europe and everything else. Is to say, look, we're going in a different direction. We have to go in a different direction.

Who is with me?

Die read it that way, or not?

RICHARD: Well, I think that is a similarly -- is one possibility. And it would be -- you know, that would be a good goal. Because Europe is really still under the World Economic Forum and Deep State.

GLENN: Yeah.

RICHARD: And including the US Deep State. You know, there's variations in Europe where you get that. Sometimes when President Trump ends up arguing with European leaders, he's still arguing with his old enemy, which is the CIA.

They're in Europe. They have all their assets in place.

In the CIA app. You know, the CIA funded his program, which brought Klaus Schwab to the floor.

GLENN: Jeez.

RICHARD: So it's something to realize.

He's still planting the old enemy. He won domestically. But the old enemy is strong in Europe and other places still.

Where they've had to have a foothold to -- to the traditional military foreign basis, where the US army is, and so on.

To kind of -- and that's -- that explains a lot of his friction. So, yes. In many ways. It's good that Europe sees, okay. There will be a change in policy.

But they're just going to now run this bill under instruction, from their minders at the CIA.
Just really engaged the United States, against Trump.

They're talking about, well, we have to decouple. We can't trust America anymore at all.

GLENN: I know.

STEPHEN: And when the reality is, they're now just totally still following their minders. The Deep State minders.

The Book of Enoch: Did Extraterrestrial Beings DESCEND in the Days of Noah?!

The Book of Enoch tells a story the Bible only hints at: A story of heavenly beings who descended to Earth, took human wives, created hybrid giants, and unleashed forbidden knowledge that corrupted the world before the Flood. Glenn Beck and researcher Timothy Alberino break down how the ancient Hebrew worldview explains the Watchers, the Nephilim, the origins of demigod myths, and why Peter and Jude referenced Enoch directly in the New Testament. From extraterrestrial terms in Scripture to the cosmic “family of God” and the divine rebellion that reshaped human history, this discussion reveals a forgotten narrative that once defined early Jewish and Christian theology. What really happened in the days of Noah, and why does it matter now?

Watch the FULL Interview HERE

Cracker Barrel CEO speaks out about DISASTROUS logo in exclusive upcoming interview

Glenn Beck recently spoke with Cracker Barrel CEO Julie Masino about the company’s infamous attempt to change its logo, and he asked the question everyone has been wondering: Why wasn’t she fired?! Glenn previews his interview, which debuts Thursday, Nov. 20 at 6PM ET!

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I was in Tennessee this weekend, and Saturday morning, I go to -- I think store number two for Cracker Barrel. And I met with the senior vice president and the CEO of Cracker Barrel. And we sat down, and we had an interview. And Julie, who has not done an interview since Good Morning America, kind of said, okay. No more interviews, because that didn't go well.

This was her first interview since then.

And, you know, it was weird. Because I got off. I got off the plane.

And, oh. Somebody on the plane said, "What are you doing here?"

And I said, "I'm going to go interview the CEO of -- of Cracker Barrel."

And the immediate response was, "Get her!"

I was like, "Wow. Okay. All right. Thank you."

I get into the car, and the Uber driver says to me, "What are you doing here?" And I said, "I'm going to meet with the person at Cracker Barrel."

"Boy, she really screwed her up. You hold her feet to the fire."

I mean, I've never -- I've never seen anything like that. And, you know, I started the interview with her, you know, honestly. And I said, look, I -- I -- I'm not here to get you. I'm not here to do anything, but ask questions that I think everybody in America wants to know.

Like, what the hell were you thinking?

And I asked her some -- asked her all of the really pointed questions. Rikki, the TV executive producer said, "There's no way. I know you. You're going to soften. There's no way."

And when I got up afterwards, she was like, "Wow. Okay. You didn't -- you really -- you really didn't soften. You know, you asked all of those questions."

Because I thought they were fair. And I told her, "Look, I hate conflict. I'm not here for conflict. I'm not here. I don't need to make a name for myself by giving you a hard time. I don't care about any of that. I just want to do my job and ask you, 'What happened here?'"

And I said, "So I'm going to ask you really uncomfortable questions." And she was prepared. And I think I finally broke through, and got the real answer in the end. I think I got the real answer.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: And it came from one of the questions I asked was, I mean, are you surprised, you haven't been fired yet?

And her response was, all telling. All telling. It's a fascinating interview you should watch. It's going to happen, I think Thursday on the podcast.

STU: Because I'm mildly surprised that hasn't happened. You know, like just because -- not because -- I don't know. There's a lot of things she's been accused of and everything else.

But just like, when you have a situation like this, where you're trying a major change and you roll it out a specific way and it does not go well, you know, it's usually -- it's like, when you're general manager of a football team, you go through the process. You evaluate all the quarterbacks. You pick the guy.

And that guy is a total bust, like you usually don't survive it. It doesn't necessarily mean you went through the process incorrectly. But when you miss, usually something happens like that. Does she feel like she missed like that?

GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yes, she does.

She's a very bright woman. I mean, she ran Coach, you know, the purse place or whatever.
STU: The purse company.
GLENN: The Coach brand. Godiva Chocolates. Taco Bell, the whole -- global. (I mean, she's a Fortune 500 CEO. She's very, very competent. Very competent.

So how could somebody very, very competent make this mistake?

STU: Hmm. Did she walk you through that? How that happened?

GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. She see.

And what's interesting is, they brought the senior vice president was also sitting there.

And he has been brought in since.

I mean, he had been there for 30, 35 years.

And really good guy. And he was one of the voices that was like, while that was happening, like, you guys. Hey, everybody upstairs. You shouldn't be doing this.

It's a bad idea. And so after they were like, "Hey. You know who was saying this? Let's bring him upstairs." And it was interesting to talk to him, because he's been long before she got there. So he kind of gave the view of, here's what happened before she got here! And here's where she came in.

And here's what happened.

And it's -- it's really fascinating.

I mean, if you want to hear the real story behind it.

And -- and also see somebody -- I mean, just wait until you hear her answer on -- I mean, it was so powerful and so honest. When I said, are you surprised you haven't been fired yet?

It was a fascinating answer.

STU: How many pancakes did you --

GLENN: Podcast on Thursday, I didn't eat any.

STU: You went to Cracker Barrel headquarters, and you ate zero pancakes?

GLENN: I didn't. I didn't. It was very difficult to not order the pancakes.

STU: You're the type of guy who gets pancakes by mistake. What do you mean you've got none?

GLENN: I was looking at my wife. My wife was sitting off to the side of the camera. And I'm looking at her. I'm like, she's so beautiful. And I eat pancakes, too many times.

STU: Uh-huh.

GLENN: And she's just -- she has to live with this, the pancake-wearing shoes. I'm not going to order the pancakes. The pancakes.

THIS Epstein quote could PROVE Trump’s real ties to the scandal

Democrats are trying yet again to tie President Trump to Jeffrey Epstein’s scandals. This time, they’ve highlighted that Epstein once referred to Trump as “the dog that hasn’t barked.” Is this proof that Trump is in the Epstein Files…or is it actually evidence that he was a whistleblower against Epstein? Glenn and Stu discuss…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Now, Jeffrey Epstein is back in the news today. Could we just for the love of Pete release everything that we have, so we can move on! From the Jeffrey Epstein thing.

Here's the answer: No.

Even if we release everything that we still have, this is going to go on for the rest of our lives.

It will always -- and probably, into our children's lives.

Do you know, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump were the reason we never went to the moon.

It's going to happen!

It's just one of these conspiracy theories, that will never, ever go away.

Why?

Because no one was honest about it in the first place. Once you start to lie, you lie once -- once! If you're a very honest person, you will lie once. And then people are like, what? What?

Why would he lie about that? What is going on?

He's not like that. But if you're the United States governor government. You already have no credibility whatsoever!

Stop lying to the American people.

Just stop it. You know, I said something a minute ago. One of the reasons why you're hearing lies is because it works to the advantage of a Colour Revolution.

You know, there are reasons why people are lying to you. Some of it, they're just dirtbags and they're liars. Some of it, they're politicians, and so they're liars.

Some of it, however, a good deal of it is, we lie, because we know it causes damage to the credibility of this entire system.

We know it does damage to the culture of America, and we are here trying to destroy the culture of America because we want to try something new. And the only -- you won't vote for it. So the only way we can get America to change and do something entirely different, that they will never vote for, is just to cause chaos and disbelief in everything!

So as I said a minute ago, you know, it's not the news. Many times, it's a reflection of a plan! And when it comes to the Epstein thing, this is absolutely a plan. The way this thing has been played out. Democrats are completely against bringing anything out against Epstein.

They don't want to do anything about it. The media. Do you remember the ABC anchor that went into a commercial break. And she was like, you know what, I've got to tell you, Epstein. You know, we had the goods on him. Dead to rights.

Clinton. All of it.

And we were told, pull it.

Remember that.

Remember that, gang?

They pulled it at ABC. I think they fired the person who tried to -- who released that video.

Or tried to fire that person. I think they were working either at CBS or whatever. That person was in trouble for releasing that behind the scenes tape.

They had no intention of it. Now, everybody wants the Epstein tapes. Wait a minute. You didn't want them when Biden went in. And you could have said something, Democrats. And you could have released it all.

And, you know, it's funny. It is just so full of stuff about Donald Trump. Then why wouldn't they release just that?

Why wouldn't have the Democrats released anything in the Epstein file?

You're telling me, we've got to find something on them. Hey. I've got the Epstein files. Yeah, yeah. We've got to find something on it.

I have got some information here about Epstein. Him and Epstein, they were fooling around. Yeah, shut up for a second. Is there anything at all, that we can construe and manufacture about his banks?

I know!

He's got a vet signal between his bank and the Russian bank. I've got stuff about the Epstein.

Come on! If they had stuff about the Epstein, they would have gone to the stuff about the Epstein files.

They don't have anything, they don't have anything.

Now, let me speak directly to conservatives. They're not going to release anything about the Democrats, because they had the Epstein files.

Do you think that -- let's just say, I'm not even going to name names. Let's just say the most powerful people on the earth. The most powerful people with powerful connections, to government.

They knew their names were, you know, there on little, you know, guest books at the island, or whatever.

You don't think they called in some favors and said, "Hey, I need that -- can you remove that?"

You don't think that there were people that were like, "Hey. You know what, we'll remove that."

"We need $100 million from you, to help out on this campaign."

I mean, whatever it is, those names are gone too! They're gone! How do I know this?

Because the government is completely dishonest! That's how I know that.

But, anyway, now, Donald Trump.

STU: You don't think anything of interest would be in these files?

I mean, I think we've already seen some stuff of interest in the emails, no?

GLENN: Yeah, I think there are stuff of interest. I don't think there's going to be anyone at a very high level that is going to get -- that's going to be like, holy cow. Look, here's pictures with him with a 14-year-old girl!

That's not going to happen.

STU: Right. Somewhere that stuff, at least at the upper levels, not there.

Now, here's what is interesting: The timing of the release of a few documents last week. The Democrats released some documents.

And they released them, and at the same time, that Johnson were saying, by the way, we are going to expedite the releasing of everything.

So there's no reason to leak anything. But the Democrats decide to leak some stuff. They like a memo. And in that, oh, my gosh.

Look at what was said. What was said in that memo. Well, it was said, you know, the only dog that hasn't barked is Trump!

Well, what -- what did he mean by that?

He's keeping it quiet. All of these things. All of these innuendos and everything. Well, now we know, from the guy who wrote the book, all the president's meeting. Donald Trump and the making of a predator, that guy came out this weekend and said, no, no. That's not what he meant.

What did he mean?

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(music)

GLENN: So Barry Levine comes on. And he's on MSNBC this wreaked.

And he's asked, so tell me, I mean, we've seen this email between you and Epstein. What did he mean that the to go that hasn't barked is Trump. What do you think he's referring to?

Okay. What was he referring to?

I think Epstein is referring to the fact that he believed that Donald Trump talked to Michael rider who was the Palm Beach police chief in 2004. And began the first investigation into Jeffrey Epstein.

So, in other words, he was the whistle-blower!

Yeah. But he's got all kinds of stuff in his -- in Jeffrey Epstein's books.

He's the whistle-blower!

The one thing you don't do is blow the whistle, when you know you got fingerprints all over the dead body. And the handgun that killed him!

You know what, I think you could find that hand gun, in this alleyway. Your fingerprints are on it. Man, why would you blow the whistle?

The suspect, he said, I suspected that Jeffrey Epstein was saying, he was 75 percent there.

Believing that Trump might have been the whistle-blower at the time. He believed it's 75 percent.

Now, how do you release something.

I mean, if you think things will be released. That will get Donald Trump. Why would you release that?

Where after two days of it being out, the guy who was part of that email, who hates Donald Trump, is like, yeah.

That's not what it means. It means he was whistle blower. Jeez.

STU: That is interesting. And I will say, you know, it is -- amazing that that's what they released. And chose to release.

That's the same email, by the way, that you're mentioning. That they blacked out the name of Virginia Giuffre, which they did intentionally. Because she has said that he was nothing, but respectful. And was never with any of the girls at all.

In not only her book, but also in testimony, under oath.

And the other one, that they released, which said, Trump -- he says, of course, he knew about the girls, was the other big one that they released. Which they left the -- well, they didn't leave it out. They just hoped you didn't focus on the next part of the sentence, which he says, that of course, he knew about the girls, as he asked Ghislaine to stop. Which would indicate, even if he was aware of this, which I don't think this had anything to do with the sex stuff. I think this was about him taking them.

GLENN: No. It was about poaching his girls from Mar-a-Lago.

STU: Right.

GLENN: The employees. He knows that we're poaching these girls. It doesn't mean he knows what they're doing with them. Stop taking my employees!

Okay. Now, if you suspect he's the whistle-blower and he knew you were taking employees from him, you know, in retrospect, you know, looking at it later, you go, oh, man, he's the whistle-blower?

But he also knows about the girls.

He knows we were taking them.

Does he know what we were doing with the girls?

I mean, this does not hurt Donald Trump. It helps Donald Trump.

STU: What about the one they released from Jeffrey Epstein. Where he said, I've met some very bad people, and none are as bad as Trump.

I mean, what if they come up with bad comments from Jeffrey Dahmer about Donald Trump? What will you say then? I mean, this is so dumb.

GLENN: I've eaten some bad eggs in my life, but I would not eat Donald Trump. I'll tell you that right now.

'House of David' Star REVEALS Story Behind TV’s #1 Biblical Series

Amazon’s House of David has become the #1 show on Prime Video, and today Glenn Beck talks with Michael Iskander, the actor bringing King David to life in one of the most powerful biblical series ever produced. Michael shares how fasting, prayer, and years of preparation shaped his performance, why David’s flaws and redemption resonate so deeply with viewers, and what really happened behind the scenes with Goliath, the sheep, and the shepherd who taught him lessons he’ll never forget.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I've got somebody on, who is in just an amazing, amazing show from Amazon. House of David. If you haven't seen House of David yet, you have to. Do you remember when-like biblical movies. I mean, they were good in the '50s. And then they got really, really bad.

And then all through the '70s and '80s and 2000s. They were horrible.

And then all of a sudden, they got really, really good?

This someone amazing. This is as good as the Jesus. What is the Jesus one?

Chosen.

It's called House of David. It's on Amazon, and we have the guy who portrays David. Michael Iskander on with us.

Michael, how are you?

MICHAEL: I'm good. What an introduction. Thank you for that!

GLENN: I mean, it's really.

Come on. Was there any time, that you thought, oh, man. This might -- I hope they do it right!

And then you saw the finished product, and you were like, wow! This is good?

MICHAEL: Yeah. That was -- you know, I try to keep my head down, and, you know, it's -- it's not finished until it's finished.

And season two is coming out. You know, I'm just going to be hearing the response of how this show is really affecting people.

GLENN: So can I talk to you about Goliath?

Because Goliath is portrayed really as a giant. Not just a big guy. He's a giant.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

GLENN: Talk to me about that.

MICHAEL: Well, I'll tell you what, when I first met Martin.

He was -- I went to -- I went to the gym with him one time.

And I -- I knew, I'm going to get, you know, my stuff. So I was prepared for that.

And -- and he made me workout for two and a half hours. And I thought that the workout was done. And he was like, no. There's another half. And, man, he -- Martin is a really dedicated man. And he just -- he pushed me to the edge, when it came to working out.

And, you know, when it comes to his role with Goliath. He's someone that really just put all the effort, both physically and emotionally to really portray that part, as best as he can.

GLENN: How long did it take you to learn the slingshot?

MICHAEL: Three days. It wasn't too bad.

GLENN: Well, I heard you had problem with the sheep.

That the sheep were -- they were not helpful.

MICHAEL: The sheep -- well, the sheep were actually really interesting.

I remember when we first started filming, they -- they put me in sheep training classes.

Because when I get on tape. They have to make sure, that I'm not -- you know, I'm not going to get attacked by one of the sheep. And I'm comfortable around them.

The sheep. First day I show up to this training, and she painted me. And you would think that the guy who plays David, you know, would think of his sheep.

GLENN: No. I don't. I don't. I don't think that's natural. You're an actor. I don't know if that's -- yep, well, they picked me because I'm good with sheep.

MICHAEL: I should get classes from you.

GLENN: I don't know.

MICHAEL: But, no. I mean, it really -- spent a lot of time with the Shepherd.
And he was giving me some really amazing lessons.
He saw that I was having trouble.

And he said, you know, you should stick next to me. Because this sheep, when they see you with the shepherd, they'll know that you're with me.
So they'll never leave my side.

GLENN: It's amazing.

MICHAEL: I want you to spend a lot of time with me. And I he said, oh, okay. And he said, I want you to know another thing: A bad shepherd is a shepherd who is behind the flock. And so you, you're going to be a good shepherd. You're going to show them. You're not going to let them lead you.

You're going to lead them, and you're going to be in the front taking risks and showing them the path.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

MICHAEL: And he is saying this, I think -- I think I'm getting more than just a sheep lesson here. It really helped in terms of understanding who David was as a person. And then his relationship to Christ.

And why -- why David was chosen as king.

GLENN: Is it true that you fasted, before the audition? I mean, you're a Broadway guy.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Yeah. I sent in the first audition. I was really excited about it.

And it was a dream of mine for a long time. You know, one of these dreams, that you don't tell anyone. And you don't think it will ever happen.

GLENN: To play David specifically? Or to be --

MICHAEL: Yeah, to play David. To play David.

GLENN: Really?

MICHAEL: And because I was inspired by the Chosen.

And I wanted to maybe do flashback scenes with a young David, or something.

When I got the audition, and they originally said no. I thought, oh, that would have been a good opportunity.

GLENN: Hmm.

MICHAEL: And I got another audition. I called my mom. And I said, Mom, this doesn't happen often. Can you believe it? She said, Michael, calm down.

The one thing I need you to do. I need you to fast, and I need you to pray.

I said, yes, ma'am.

A week later, I was having lunch with Jon Erwin. And he -- it kind of took off from there.

But, yeah, fasting and prayer.

GLENN: You know, I'm friends with.
I went to school with Jim Caviezel. And I can't remember what grade he was in. Maybe fifth grade, I think. But he went into church, and all by himself.

And he prayed, and he made a pact with God. Let me -- all I want, Lord, is to play you in a movie some day, and I will live my life honorably to be able to be ready, but I want to play you.

And so he told me when Mel called, he was like, yeah, I've been waiting for the call. It's an amazing thing.

MICHAEL: Wow. I didn't know that story. That's beautiful.

GLENN: Yeah. What do you think it is about the story about -- this was the number one show -- number one series on -- on Amazon -- on Amazon Prime this year.

What is it about the series that you think is connecting?

MICHAEL: You know, I -- I think it's different for everybody.

But I'll tell you for me.

The reason why this show means a lot to me, is because, David points us to Christ.

And -- and David is -- is a person.

He to me, is the embodiment to what it means to be human.

And to make mistakes. And find forgiveness.

It's a complex, long story.

But he was a man that -- that -- he's known as the man after God's own heart.

So for people to see that example. To see, to see the man that God loved so much, that Jesus himself was -- son of David.

I think that's what -- they see the Holy Spirit in the show. I mean, that's what I see.
And that's who I do it for.

GLENN: It's -- it's -- it's amazing to me, how -- with the exception of one, the Bible -- every single hero is so deeply flawed.

And David is so good, so good, and then, you know, becomes really, really does one of the worst things I think I've ever read in the Bible. I mean, just really bad.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

GLENN: Are you going to play -- do you have any idea, assuming the ratings are there, how long of the story you're going to tell?

MICHAEL: I really don't know. I mean, we're just trying to get to season two right now in the release.

Hopefully, pray for us, that we can get to season three, and we can keep telling the story.

I don't know what Erwin and Gunn have. What they're picking up. But I pray that we tell as much of the story as possible. I think it's important to see both the good and the bad. Like you said, to see this flawed human being, to see someone make mistakes, and to see them get back up and repent.

And ask for forgiveness. And find grace in God. So we'll see!

Pray for us.

GLENN: You -- I read some place that you were a Broadway guy. And I thought, this career is not over yet.

I mean, are you prepared to always be David?

I mean, the guy who is playing Jesus now. Jim Caviezel said, it took years before he was allowed to play anything else.

And I can't remember the guy who was playing Jesus his whole life. He is Jesus to a lot of people. Are you prepared to this be you for the rest of your life now?

And not, you know, going -- going back and doing other things, if that's the way it is?

MICHAEL: You know what, God has taken me through so much in my life, that I'm sure he's going to get me through this.

And if I'm known as the guy who plays David, I think it's actually a blessing. And I don't know what God has in store, but I trust him.

GLENN: Yeah.

MICHAEL: When that time comes, I will worry about it then. But nor for now, I'm having a great time portraying one of my favorite people.

GLENN: I just have to ask you a personal question. One for me. My daughter wants to be on Broadway. Can you talk her out of it in 30 seconds, please?

MICHAEL: Oh, man, I don't know if I want to talk her out of it.

GLENN: Okay. Well, time for you to go now.
(laughter)
Michael, thank you so much, and we're looking forward -- when does it premiere? Is it this weekend? Is it out?

MICHAEL: Well, episode eight is out on Warner Project on Prime this Sunday. Yeah.

GLENN: Okay. Good. Good.

Well, we'll be watching. Thank you so much, Michael. I appreciate it.
MICHAEL: Thank you so much, Glenn. Have a good one. Take care.
GLENN: You bet. If you haven't seen the first season, you really should see it.

It's really, really good. It's one of those that I started watching, you know.

And I stopped because I was like, wait.

Tania, we should watch this together. And she came home. And so we started watching it, and I think we watched the whole season in one weekend.

It's one of those. It's really good. Season two premieres this Sunday.