New York Times: We need death panels!

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An op/ed that ran in the New York Times earlier this month has made a startling declaration: “We need death panels.” The claim comes from a former Obama advisor, Steven Rattner, who claims that too many Medicare resources are wasted on the elderly in their last year of life. While the Obama campaign is trying to paint the Romney campaign as enemies of the elderly for wanting to reform Medicare and Medicaid, should they be paying closer attention to the people Obama ahas surrounded himself with?

Rattner writes:

Medicare needs to take a cue from Willie Sutton, who reportedly said he robbed banks because that’s where the money was. The big money in Medicare is not to be found in Mr. Ryan’s competition or Mr. Obama’s innovation, but in reducing the cost of treating people in the last year of life, which consumes more than a quarter of the program’s budget.

No one wants to lose an aging parent. And with price out of the equation, it’s natural for patients and their families to try every treatment, regardless of expense or efficacy. But that imposes an enormous societal cost that few other nations have been willing to bear. Many countries whose health care systems are regularly extolled — including Canada, Australia and New Zealand — have systems for rationing care.

“It is death panels.  Whether you want to call it that or not,” Glenn said. “The problem with it – the reason why it becomes a death panel –  because who decides who lives and dies?  Who decides?”

“It’s not whether there will be rationing or not.  Who will ration it out? Who is the beneficiary of the rationing?” Stu added.

Glenn also brought up a story about the way that kidney transplant lists could be changes. USA Today explains:

The rules that determine who gets to the front of the line for a kidney transplant may be about to change for the first time in 25 years, NPR reports. A proposal from the United Network for Organ Sharingwould direct the kidneys likely to last longest (often from young donors) to the recipients likely to live longest with the organs (often young patients). Some transplant experts applaud the proposal but others worry the changes will discriminate against older patients who are otherwise good candidates.

“This stuff is going on and if Barack Obama is reelected it will stand.  It’s already in but it will stand.  We must not elect Barack Obama,” Glenn said.

To illustrate the dangers of these changes to healthcare and how it can lead to totalitarianism, Glenn imagined a world where the universally beloved Mother Teresa was put in charge of these decisions over rationing care.

“Everybody loves Mother Teresa, and she just loves everybody.  She’s the most kind and most gentle – who says a bad thing about Mother Teresa? You put her in charge of this.  Mother Teresa needs an armed unit to be able to execute it because people will say ‘Mother Teresa just killed my grandfather or my father or let my child die because she made that decision’.  No matter who it is Mother Teresa needs an armed personnel because she’s making life and death decisions.  Mother Teresa can’t pull this off without fascism,” Glenn explained.

  • landofaahs

    We seem to have liberals on this site who are vying for positions on obamas death panels. All seniors better vote because the liberals want to do to you what they do to the unborn; ABORT YOU. The democrats are coming after you senior citizens.

  • landofaahs

    Don’t know why the previous did not post so I’ll do it again. We have liberals on this site who are vying for jobs on obamas death panels. All you seniors better understand that the democrat party wants to do to you what they do to unborn babies in the womb. They want to ABORT YOU seniors. Be careful senior citizens, the democrat party is coming after you.

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    Death panels – coming under ObamaCare – a new term for lawful murder by neglect by our government. If Obama gets another term in office, how much more will be coming down the line? And if we do not dump ObamaCare, how can anyone be safe?

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    I notice the system is slowing down as well; either Disqus is having heavy traffic problems, or something else is with the site itself.
    Right now I have to agree with your post; if the death panels come into play, how long will it be until Obama authorizes the mandatory euthenasia of disabled, and the unwanted, enforced abortions as in China and God alone knows what else.

  • landofaahs

    He never learned certain childhood lessons like playing with matches gets you burned.
    Many of his previous supporters are waking up to what he really is. At a certain point they will give him enough Nixon rope to undue him.

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    No he has not, yet he will be learning it hard and fast this November; and heaven help us in the lame duck session – he will stop at nothing to collapse the system while he has the chance.

  • Anonymous

    The man in charge of that panel in Obamacare says he loves the UK cradle to the grave plan. He also said there will be rationing of healthcare. What more do you need to understand what this so called Affordable Health Care Act is.

  • Sandie

    He rids himself of a lot of non-supporters. Obamacare will take care of the young, who will give Obama or his Democrat/Socialist successor plenty of years of support, while eliminating by neglect the senior crowd who tend to be more Conservative. It’s another way he picks his winners and losers.

  • Anonymous

    Death panels are just the tip of the iceberg… a huge iceberg! They don’t want the babies and they don’t want the seniors and they don’t want the handicapped and they don’t want the conservatives and they don’t want the patriots. When they abolish all those then they can live in their little communist utopian world. I hope they all like it. You and I won’t be here to see it when they find out that they no longer are a country where they have any freedoms themselves. So many of the true Americans will be gone and no one else wants to fight to make America great. Obama will go down in history as the most obscene and perverse president this country ever had.

  • Anonymous

    Death panels are a fabricated lie developed by glenn, rush and Republican puppets who are the puppets of their private health care masters.

  • http://www.cozyword.com/ DE Navarro

    Obetrayer is gone – fired – if those who want him out will go vote. So no slackers, people – get up get out and go vote if you want him out.

    The polls are all lying. They are doing an up to +10 over sample of the Democrat voter skewing the polls dramatically. Romney is actually up by about 5% nationwide and that is incredible for a non-incumbent going into an election.

    I’m not a Romney supporter, but I am absolutely committed to firing Obetrayer and the only way we are going to do it is to get rid of the chronic liar that occupies the White House.

    He can’t even tell the truth about his faith. He constantly affirms he is Christian and then prays with, runs with, favors and acquiesces to the Muslims. What is he? A liar.

  • SoThere

    “This is so tough … but we just make have to tell your grandmother … to take a pill. I am sure Grandma was thrilled when she heard that.” Barack Obama

    The Independent Payment Advisory Board will determine how to pay for Obamacare. If Obama says that you should take a pill, then your operation to extend your life will be rejected.

    Medicare already rejects more claims than all insurance companies combined. Obama cut 725 BILLION dollars from Medicare already.

    They may not say it but YES there will be death panels.

    Strtlk is the face of the Liberal Progressives in this country, he and they are known for their lies.

    Romney/ Ryan 2012

  • Anonymous

    A fabricated lie? Rattner is not Beck and the New York Times is certainly not a conservative publication. The only ones who can’t see are those who don’t want to see.

  • Anonymous

    You can’t be a christian and promote murdering our babies and promoting gay marriage. I don’t find that in my BIBLE.

  • Anonymous

    http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Socialism.html

    Frankly my dear – I don’t give a D…

    It’s against the law to commit suicide – but ok to kill unborn humans or assign people to a line to get health care. Might as well let us OLD folks decide to take a pill and go to sleep. I’ll be Dmmmmd if I waste my money on hanging around in this despotic taxing kingdom – and I have no place else to go. thankfully my parents are dead and my wifes folks are dead – there are no children to worry about. breathing, eating and pooping is NOT living. I’m also a fatalist – when it’s your turn you are going – it’s not whether you have the best most costly medical care in the whole wide world – when your number is up – you are gone and NOTHING will keep you from every man’s destiny – death.

  • Anonymous

    the babies they don’t want are negro, the old people they don’t want are those with memories of how it WAS in America, They DO want the handicapped and the mentally incapable – those are “dependent”. Freedom, liberty security – you no longer have any of those – or do you stay home and hide in your house all day. been to an airport lately and been patted down and your baggage searched without a warrant or even probable cause?

    Obama is going to be reelected and there will be statues erected in his memory when he is gone – that someday they will be toppled – just like Stalin’s and Sadam Hussein’s – he’ll be dead and just a foot note in the history of the earth. I wonder if socialism/communism will last even a century in the US – it didn’t quite make it in the Soviet Union – although communism still persists.

  • Anonymous

    the young don’t believe they will get old, ill, or die. they think that they are invulnerable and will live forever.

  • Anonymous

    they must think they will be special when they get old and are in like circumstance – but that’s tomorrow – and we all know tomorrow never really comes.

  • Anonymous

    hopefully not long – it will save a ton of healthcare money.

  • Anonymous

    bah! he has no worry – Obama will be reelected, the Senate will be in stronger control by the Socialist Democrats and it’s even likely that the Democrats will retake the house – or can’t you read. The Republicans have stabbed us in the back once more – and we let them – we walk down the road of milk toast candidates like McCain, Dole and now Romney. They figured the real chance of turning out the incumbent president was slight but they put their eggs into the senate and house basket – and now they are losing that .

  • Anonymous

    the polls are NOT lying. Romney and Ryan are a hopeless pair. Should have been Newt and Rubio or Gindal

  • Anonymous

    I have a neighbor who wants abortion because she wants to get rid of the babies being conceived by unwed mothers. This is any race.

  • Anonymous

    FYI – one night on OPB Michael Moore was on a talk show, I don’t remember who the other guest were, but one of them was Suzy Orman. She was sitting next to Michael. Michael Moore told the talk show host need to start training the children that are knee high to get the views in this country turned around. That to me meant school children. I don’t think much of Suzy Orman anymore, because I don’t trust her because of her views, plus the beginning years she was giving out financial advise, she was living a lie, she was in financial trouble, which she has admitted. I don’t trust Oprah anymore either.

  • Anonymous

    AND that is the problem – your BIBLE is a book written by men, edited and translated by men who had their own ax to grind – most of it is just story – not reality – and then as far as I can see, most “American Christians” only believe in those parts they want to – kind of like cherry picking. Jesus said, not one jot or tittle (that’s like crossing T’s and dotting I’s) would pass from the law until ALL was fulfilled – a new heaven and a new earth. We crow and whine about the ten commandments – that few so-called Christians follow, we wail and moan but on the sabbath that has been established for Christians, Sunday, there is the NFL, NASCAR, fishing, golf, whatever else comes before “remember the sabbath to keep it Holy”. Raise up your children in the way they should go and they will not depart from it – leading by example – and turning them over to Government Schools for socialist indoctrination to worship the state – disrespect of elders, or even others and their property.

    Oh there is a LOT I do find in YOUR bible – too bad YOU and others don’t really believe and follow the directions in your book. You are ready to thump it, pound it, wave it in everyone’s face, but you don’t LIVE it.

  • Anonymous

    There will not be death panels – there will simply be a list of what the now government provided healthcare insurance will or will not cover. already – once you reach 65 you are put in the governments medicare plan – because you are too costly for regular health insurance. Medicare was just the first step – get used to the idea that there will be a single payer health care insurance and that you will be on a list for care as doctors quit practicing because they cannot survive on the government fixed pricing and still pay their overhead, staff, and liability insurance. Tort reform would have been the best and first way to reduce the cost of health care insurance – but since lawyers wrote the bill – you didn’t really expect them to take the money hit – did you?

  • Anonymous

    A paper does not have to be a labelled “literal” publication to be a lie.
    Of course you would not know this because you are a beck drone.

  • Anonymous

    Thus, all those on Welfare Corp and Public Assistance fit where because they are the ones benefiting from the fruits of our labors and our ancestry…nearly diminished. What the fools do not realize is that the Communist Chinese won’t put up with those who aren’t worth their flush…they will become pet food for the wealthy! StopUSAGiveaway

  • Anonymous

    Why is it–after-the-fact? Both parties are at fault with this focus!
    And have perpetuated the tug of war for decades spending billions while the babies born to crack heads, heathen breeders, unheatlhy etc via sperm donors…end up in poverty, abused, neglected or the social spectrum of drop outs, gangs, drugs, or negative et al? When both parties or the EXTREMES do this: guess who is in the middle taking responsibility: the person who goes to work each day and is responsible with their life’s choices not expecting someone to be nor to have the GOV TEET aka :”we the people” take care of them from womb to tomb or as it is become the pawns for larger more controlling self-perpetuating bureaucratic government do nothings…controllers.

  • Anonymous

    “Death Panels” are not coming: they are already here…anyone having someone in the hospital…you wll die after surgery from an infection; if you survive the lack of communication, or the self-perpetuating unnecessary med procedures; and foreigners …or the delay in the system already or the increase in your work premiums…paying for the 47% do nohing but sucking the blood out of the workers.
    THINK ABOUT THIS: how is it that illegals can get JOBS while 47% of US cannot? And look at the fat etc who can barely walk…contribute to the outrageous costs for everything…POINT when we have more utilizing everything but doing nothing to earn it…or just plain heathen breeding while we kill of our environment, flora and fauna…how much longer do we have?

  • Anonymous

    Speak for yourself, you have no idea how I live my life!!!!

  • Anonymous

    How old are you? Not old enough to be on here because you spew out no facts…just miniscule attacks…get a JOB then you will have something to contribute and compare to what those of us who do work and pay taxes, and pay for each breathe we take while doings so and paying for the 47% who simply throw out something to get attention…

  • landofaahs

    I assume obama is lying everytime I see his lips move.

  • http://twitter.com/paoligarcy Paolina

    Better focus on your local races, House, Senate, and Governors. This is FAR more important than the Presidential race, because Romney will shift to the center unless there is a huge shift to the right in the Congress.

    Heck, at this point there is really no hope to be found in D.C., states should start nullifying bad laws and consider secession. The situation is THAT bad.

    Conservatives are in denial, but at this rate, Obama will be re-elected (if Romney fails to win the debates), and in the next 4 years if Obama grants amnesty even TEXAS will become a blue state, meaning the GOP will NEVER regain the White House. Even without amnesty, Texas will become a blue state in about 10-20 years from immigration and due to being in the same TV grid as the USA which is bombarding us with pornography and decadence.

    So WAKE UP already.

  • Rachel

    That’s YOUR choice, and I would respect it. Take your chances with God. But are you willing to play God and make that decision for someone else? That’s horrible.

  • Rachel

    These fake “Christian” Democrats just LOVE to pick and choose what laws of God they follow and which they ignore. Just like they pick & choose which Constitutional that they like and which they ignore. They are fair-weather Americans and fair-weather Christians. Phonies.

  • Anonymous

    If anyone believes in the necessity of rationing to the point of death–then tell
    them they should go first.

  • Anonymous

    Guess that might be one of the reasons (among many) why Obamacare was given the rush job for passing in Congress. NO ONE READ IT! If they had, would they really be in favor of an aged parent or beloved elderly aunt to be denied saving care in their last year(s) of life? ATTENTION ALL SENIORS AND THOSE ON MEDICARE
    This applies to you who voted for B.O. and intend to vote for reelection—you are signing your own death warrant. Will you be asked at the hospital who you voted for? They don’t care! The regulations are already written into the bill! Medicare will NOT be used for the elderly (or it will be severely restricted.) This, so the many millions of uninsured will be able to get the care. Even today, some of those regulations which are implemented are denying seniors certain health care coverage which they may have been able to receive only several months ago.

  • Omegaomni

    if texas goes blue it wont be amnesty it will be blue because conservative ideas failed

  • Omegaomni

    Ancestry? our ? got banned from stormfront?

  • Omegaomni

    lawful murder? you mean its lawful to dump toxic chemicals into the water because of weak regulation? lawful for Israel to turn palestine into a death camp? or that food companies are allowed to put MSG in all their food?

    tell me one person who was killed by this idiotic death panel? this is why romney is falling behind, you people are talking this bs

  • Omegaomni

    lol you koo aid drinkers I monitor many websites and can spot every liberal and conservative talking point. This ” the polls are wrong!” talking point was created in some think tank to charge the base. There is no original thinking except maybe red state/ counterpunch but generally it just the conservative/liberal talking points hammered out on every website. Romney is behind pure and simple

  • Omegaomni

    what about romney and mormons ? they added a whole new book to the bible are they fake too?

    fair weather christians? i bet you wanna go back to crusades and witch burnings those were real christians amd you are the fair weather one

  • Omegaomni

    lol indeed I bet the real elite who control the world are laughing very hard at people wasting their energy on death panels. wake up droolers they don’t need death panels- deep in a bunker they have technology that can wipe out the world and more.

  • Omegaomni

    Death panels ? you mean when a big insurance company decides that a 9 year old girl with cancer has reached the lifetime maximum insurance and dumps her? Yeah I know that 9 year old girl is just a welfare parasite, she should get a job and pay for her own chemo therapy

  • http://twitter.com/paoligarcy Paolina

    Conservative ideas aren’t really even spoken in Spanish in America, nor are they widely distributed on mainstream media. So no, it won’t be.

    In case you haven’t noticed, there is widespread pornography addiction, over half of the men in churches are addicted to that, and of those who are not, many are alcoholics, on drugs, or so obese they are uncomfortable standing up politically (i.e. how Chris Christie is constantly made fun of for his weight).

    There are very few who can stand up.

    Also, small government politician is an oxymoron. No true freedom lover spends MILLIONS of dollars to run for the job called “legislator” which means to WRITE laws and micromanage other people’s lives. Republics ALWAYS close down on freedoms over time. Even the Greeks understood that elections only put the wealthy elite (the aristocracy) into power.

    Their solution was to have lotteries to determine representatives, but the lack of education made that produce many uneducated leaders so they gave up on it. Today, that sort of system would probably work phenonmenonally, and also allow representatives who favor freedom, as it would be your average Joe-the-plumber winning office instead of wealthy lawyers who already lie professionally for a living (every President has been a lawyer with the exception of a few victorious generals).

  • SoThere

    More spam from an idiot.

  • Rod022

    Romney is NOT falling behind! The mainstream press wants you to believe it; but like Obama when is the last time that either spoke the truth? Can you say 1959?

  • http://twitter.com/BlissDesignz Tabitha Taylor

    Oh yeah it’s all Israel, the ONLY democracy in the middle east..
    Not the palestianian terrorists shelling Israeli citizens & massacaring innocent families night & day. So tell us, are you a willfully ignorant dhimmi or another Muslim practicing taqiyya? Perhaps you should take a look at the stats of just who is causing who pain & death as they’re updated daily at TheReligionOfPeace.com . Then maybe we can have a discussion / dialogue that makes some sort of sense in reality.

  • Anonymous

    Remember the 1973 movie “Solyent Green”? The old were required to ‘recycle’ themselves into green cookies. If BHO gets another four years, watch out for green ‘cookies’.

  • http://twitter.com/BlissDesignz Tabitha Taylor

    …”The Commission is set to decide which treatments are most cost-effective and disallow the ones that it finds are not. That’s “cost-effective”, not just “effective.” So if an expensive treatment cures a fatal disease, the Panel will decide how many “quality years” a patient has left in deciding if it is “cost-effective” to let her have the medication. The Panel, in other words, rations care and plays God. ”
    http://dickmorris.rallycongress.com/6446/kill-death-panels/

  • asybot

    I have never ever heard of death panels in Canada , I have had three visits at death’s door ,am disabled and unable to work ever again, need help around the house (paid for by medical) and in my late sixties candidate???? not so !!!! and neither for the patients I have seen in the hospitals in their 80-90′s with great care given!!!! There are NO death panels in Canada get your facts straight!!!

  • http://twitter.com/BlissDesignz Tabitha Taylor

    And if that doesn’t do enough for you, just look up the video on youtube “Obamacare’s Secret Commissions. Death Panels? You Betcha!”
    It’s only one month old & gives further details.

  • Anonymous

    In spite of all of the local, state, and fed aid to the less fortunate, in addition to the private and church funded aid, there has been one hell of an decrease in self reliance and an increase in beggars, indigents and tax payer funded handouts. It’s time for those that can support themselves and work, go to school, join the military and other wise become contributors to society to get off there lazy ass asses, get off of dope, and become a part of the solution rather than a part of the problem. There is work out there, it may take some effort to find, but it’s there.

  • new2la

    Give Obama another term and let’s see what happens. Nah.

  • new2la

    bjv..do you think someone will apologize to Sarah Palin for voicing this very thing?

  • new2la

    Hey, idiots can post anywhere….The only red I see is all the thumbs down you are getting. HELLO!

  • new2la

    I don’t see how anyone can claim to be Christian and vote democrat. They stand for evrything we are not.

  • new2la

    Don’t become ill ommy, you may find out sooner than not. LOL…oink!

  • new2la

    They are fooling no one. The ones who deny it’s existence, are lying…we know this and that’s why the AHCA will be repealed.

  • ValueSet

    Ummm… Ronald Reagan– was neither a lawyer nor a general. Harry Truman attended law school for 2 years, but did not have a law degree.

  • Anonymous

    @newca:disqus, Honey, I wouldn’t hold my breath.

  • http://twitter.com/paoligarcy Paolina

    Actor is another career that requires lying, similar to lawyers. So if that is your ONLY example of a non-lawyer/non-general president, then wow. Really, out of 51, an actor somehow got the job. Reagan arguably forced his way in through sheer charisma, thanks to being an actor. You’re right though, he never went to law school. Acting school seems an equal substitute, both being adequate to train people to advocate for causes they don’t believe in for money.

  • ValueSet

    That answer was off the top of my head… there have been 4 US Presidents who were not soldiers or lawyers.(9%) Try a web search to learn that there have not been 51 US Presidents, but 43 people ! (Cleveland served as the 22nd and 24th US President)
    Guess you don’t like lawyers: if you ever have to go to court, bet you change your mind.

  • Bonnie Somer

    so right this is the obama green energy agenda and w/UN agenda 21 he is mvg right along he wants fewer women, fewer kids and he wants us to all be the same too bad he missed the fact we are not the same people are all different they do, achieve are motivated and make money and lots of it his utopian society is already in existence its disneyworld let h

  • Anonymous

    I suggest testing it on Oblama first.

  • americanathlete

    @landofaahs: You assume? I’m surprised his nose hasn’t grown 20 feet from all the lies he’s told. Pinocchiobama

  • landofaahs

    LOL. I understand that when that happens, something else on you shrinks in direct proportion, and it’s not your feet.

  • Margo Wohlford

    I had an elderly friend back when Bush was President. He was turned down for a kidney because of his age. Guess this has been going on for a while. He died and I miss him.

  • http://twitter.com/paoligarcy Paolina

    First, you are wrong. There have been 51 Presidents since the Articles of Confederation, and Obama is the 44th since the Constitution. I count the Articles of Confederation because it was the best government man ever created (whereas the Constitution created a bigger government that eventually suspended habeas corpus and waged war on half the country that tried to leave only decades after creation).

    As for lawyers I was actually interested in becoming one, but the lawyers and professors who spoke at or taught the classes I attended, in a conservative university no less, basically said you “have” to advocate for things you don’t believe in, because for example your clients are often guilty of the crimes but you still defend them.

    What’s worse is hearing them defend frivolous lawsuits (which is destroying thousands of small businesses every year) but you have to understand to them, destroying the wealth of an innocent businessman seems pretty weak stuff compared to defending murderers and rapists.

    Lawyers should be BANNED from politics because they shouldn’t be able to write the laws that they then earn money from arguing in court. It’s a conflict of interest because then the laws are written in ways that benefit those who use lawyers.

  • ValueSet

    “51 Presidents since the Articles of Confederation”… and because “you” decide that is where we should start counting Presidents, that
    makes it so ? Sorry, but I am using a different starting point_ with George Washington being the first President of the United States of America. So we can agree to disagree. Obama is the 44th President, but Grover Cleveland is counted twice, once as the 22nd, and as the 24th president. He did not serve 2 consecutive terms, so Cleveland is counted as the 22nd President, and the 24th President . Can you understand that ? Oh yeah, and good luck with banning lawyers from running and holding elected office. You have a right to your opinions, and to voice them, but you really are ridiculous and absurd. Hope you do have to go to court someday, and that you represent yourself: “He who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client.” My father-in-law, brother-in-law,and son-in-law are lawyers; my uncle is a judge. Better men you will not find, they are men of great ethics and character, and do much “pro bono” (they don’t charge the client) work.

  • ValueSet

    Paolina, I won’t waste any more of my time responding to your absurdities.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Carol-Cross/100000071063477 Carol Cross

    Of course, a kind of rationing of health care for elderly Medicare/Medicaid patients with life-threatening diseases has been going on for many years now —-under the radar and for the purpose of cutting the high costs incurred by Acute Care Hospitals for ICU and CCU time for elderly patients who have already achieved “life expectancy” based on reliable statistics. Overtreatment of the elderly for PROFIT and Under-treatment of the elderly to protect PROFITS is currently a problem that is hidden from elderly patients and from public view and understanding. It is public policy to encourage the elderly to shorten their lives and to shorten their suffering when death is lurking around the corner but, of course, the 1991 Patient Self Determination Act and the protections implied therein –i.e., the RIGHT to shorten one’s life in the hospital by refusing life-extending care, and the RIGHT to extend one’s life by means of CPR that would traslate to FULL CODE status in the hospital are both being CIRCUMVENTED. This is not a political thing. Both parties are complicit in that HHS for many years has never prosecuted the discrimination that is prohibited in the 1991 PSDA and there is NO PRIVATE RIGHT of action anyway if there is discrimination. The PSDA of 1991 needs to be clarified and strengthened by The Congress (there is already an ABA Resolution before the Congress) and the President or Secretary of HHS really needs to MANDATE that physicians SEEK informed consent for either palliative or curative care from elderly very ill patients to stop the overtreatment of patients for profit and the undertreatment (unilateral DNR’s) to protect the bottom lines of the hospitals.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Carol-Cross/100000071063477 Carol Cross

    As to the American Bar Association Resolution that is now before the Congress of the USA, and the three recommendations of the ABA:—that might result in voluntary self-rationing of health care by the elderly:at the end of life. I quote, as follows:
    l. Every patient or patient’s authorized representative be given an opportunity to discuss issues relating to advance care planning with an appropriately trained professional within a reasonable time after the patient’s admission to a facility covered by the PSDA. 2. Health insurance exchanges developed pursuant to thePatient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 be required under the PSDA to provide advance care planning informatikon and resource options for follow-up assistance, and 3. In the absence of a validly executed advance directive, any clear, undisputed expression of a person’s wishes with respect to health care should be honored.
    Number (3), of course, appears to be a means to cover up the erosion of the protection of the 1991 PSDA as concerns “full code” protection for those patients who DO NOT make advanced directives that permit DNR code status to be placed in the hospital charts. Because the PSDA has been UNDERUSED since 1991 to shorten life to shorten suffering, there has been a movement to legalize the unilateral DNR (based upon the request for “NO CPR”) upon admission of elderly and ill patients to the hospital. While the treating physician has the legal and ethical obligation to inform the patient that there is a DNR in the patient’s hospital chart, and that the patient has as right to protest the DNR if they want CPR, DNR is becoming the unilateral “DEFAULT” status for elderly patients. CMS does not fully reimburse hospitals/physicians who OVERTREAT MedicareMedicaid patients in end-of-life scenarios and the default DNRs offer a means of protecting the bottom lines of the hospitalls/physicians.
    2.

  • Carol Eblen

    Because of the Age Discrimination Law,  the Hospice and Palliative Care Law in 1986,   and the inadequate  Patient Self Determination Act (PSDA) passed in 1991,  both policitical parties have hung the old people out on a limb and are sometimes shortening the lives of the elderly without their informed consent.    Yes —they  (physicians/hospitals)  are “offing”  the elderly for $$$$$$ as necessary when the physicians/hospitals know they will not be fully reimbursed for the care of the elderly under CMS reimbursement protocol.       .   

    The problem of OVERTREATMENT of the ELDERLY and very ill is driven by the profit motive.   Because physicians lobbied NOT to be placed under the provisions of the PSDA in 1991,  and,  of course,,  they WERE NOT!,  Physicians do NOT have to SEEK INFORMED CONSENT for one of two legal standards of care reimbursed by Medicare,    i.e.,  either curative or palliative,  from their elderly and very sick patients.   Physicians  don’t have to tell elderly patients that  there is the OPTION of doing nothing and then transitioning to palliative care and Hospice .except in those States,  like NY,  where they have passed new laws that force physicians to inform patients about Hospice and Palliatie Care. 

    Physicians (because of the inadequate PSDA)  apparently don’t have to seek consent for one of the two legal standards of care,  except in NY and a few other states,  and therefore are free to overtreat the elderly patients when they KNOW or there is a good possibility  that CMS and the private insurers will reimburse them for the treatment (as required by law).  

    Because the physicians wouldn’t cooperate and seek informed consent for the standard of care that both the physician and the patient agree is  the most beneficial in the long run,  many elderly patients are cruelly overtreated and exploited at the end of their lives for profits.   .  

    We now have to have  IPAB to dev elop an End-Of-Life Standard of Care that provides beneficial treatment to the elderly whose great age is a co-morbidity factor in many cases and who do have the right to shorten their lives and, thus, their suffering by refusing life-safing and life-extending treatment as permitted under the 1991 PSDA    The very ill elderly are given this right in the 1991 PSDA even when the refused life-extending or life-saving treatment has NOT been deemed to be medically futile by the physician and the hospitasl.     .           

  • Carol Eblen

    IPAB will not be a death panel.    Because of overtreatment of the elderly at the end of life for the profit motive has not been stopped by either political party,  the elderly and very ill are in great danger of having their lives shortened without their informed consent.  

    The three laws —that is (l)  The Age Discriminatin Statute,  (2)  the Hospice and Pallliative Care Statute,  and (3) The Patient Self Determination Act of 1991 hav e resulted in patients being hung out on a limb where they can be both OVERTREATED for profit and UNDERTREATED for profit withing their INFORMED  CONSENT.  

    Why has there been no Federal Mandate for physicians to seek informed consent for either curative care or palliative care from their elderly and very sick patients?    Why weren’t the physicians put under the mandate of the 1991 PSDA to begin with?  

    It’s always about money~~~~~~!!!!!