Since when do you put names on a wedding cake I think this is another case of people going out of the way to find trouble? It happens with all races political sides and sexes.

Manufacture an incident.

Express “outrage”.

Complain until permission (usually mislabeled as a “right”) is granted.

This is how a permissive society is built, not a truly free society.

 you could possibly construe title II of the 1964 civil rights act to make what this man did illegal.  it is certainly a poor business model.

I would refuse service as well.

His business his means of operation, the owners always have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.

No discrimination has been done.

Indeed, and there is a chance if enough headline coverage is generated Holder and Obama will use this to persecute the store owner for ‘discrimination.’

This makes me upset to be an Oregonian…

I have a business here and I will serve or not serve, sell or not sell to whoever I want.  It has nothing to do with discrimination, because there are people that I do like and those I don’t like.  I don’t know what their background is, and I don’t care to find out either.  But, if they are going to push it into my face then I am going to have a problem with them, period (no hidden agendas).

Government get out of My Religion (Christian)…

Because, if you don’t then who is really being Discriminated Against???

Can’t do that in this country. Hate all you want, but if you discriminate because of your small-minded hatred, or your wrongheaded belief that you can impose your religion on others. This shop keeper needs to be taught a lesson.

Wrong. You can’t refuse service because of someone’s race, gender, religion, or national origin. They refused service because the other person was a woman too, and not a man. That is illegal.

And you’d be charged with a crime and sued as well.

 So, what, gays are the only ones that have rights?
The man gets my support. It’s his business and he manages it anyhow he sees fit.
If he doesn’t want barefoot Asian people in his store, he has the right to say so.
If he doesn’t want to make cupcakes for 7′ tall Caucasians, then he has that right.
Move on…..

If the reason you don’t like them is because of their gender, age, religious beliefs, etc., then it is discrimination and it is illegal.

No, silly, anyone can have a cake made there.
And no, he doesn’t have the right to bar Asian people from his store. He does have the right to bar barefoot people.
Because being barefooted is a behavior, and being Asian is an identity.
Get it?

Hilarious that you guys claim to love the rule of law when it suits you, but are completely willing to break the law when that suits you.  Guess you’re not that different from liberals after all…

 Nope – his business, his rules.
Get it?

This is exactly what these people will do.  They will sue anyone from pastors, reverends, etc., if marriage is not performed for them.  This is why I am against same sex marriage.  These people will do their due diligence to destroy people that do not agree with them.

 So does that mean if a pastor does not marry a gay couple that is illegal too?

“These people”? You mean people who have civil rights and insist upon them? You’re against same sex marriage because people are insisting upon their rights? Are you against blacks because they insist upon their rights, too? LOL.

Disagree all you want. But when you discriminate, you will pay. 

Nope. You don’t get to break the law just because you have a business. We still all have to follow the same rules. 
Thanks for playing.

A pastor can do what he wants, but that’s not a legal marriage, you still have to register with the state for it to be a legal marriage, you still need a secular, legal marriage license. 
But this isn’t a pastor, this is a shopkeeper refusing to serve someone because she’s female and not male. An easy case of gender discrimination.

How about a man who walks into a store wearing a T-Shirt that says HITLER WAS RIGHT, and is covered in Swastika tattoos and the Jewish store owner refuses to serve him.

In fact, how about Mr Klein is THAT circumstance, as I suspect the man is Jewish.

Think he has a right to refuse service over something that he finds offensive?

How about a guy who walks into a Gay owned store with a KILL ALL FAGS T-Shirt. Think HE has a right to refuse service?

“No shirt, no shoes, no service” is a placard you see all around town, esp in summer and beach towns.  ”My business, my rules” should be the new placard popping up around town.

Yeah you guys are going to have to learn the difference between behavior and identity. You can ban people who act a certain way. You can’t ban people because of a condition of birth. 
Which means, yes, you can ban people in your store if they choose not to wear a shirt or shoes, but you can’t ban people because they happen to be born female, or Muslim, or in another country.

They have no right to a cake, or force a man to go against his religious believes.

There is NO law that says marriage is a right.

Homosexuals can designate an heir the same way the rest of us do — use a will.  Powers of attorney are other legal means to accomplish what they think straights have that they don’t.

I’ll say it again. Wearing an offensive shirt is a behavior that is chosen, and that can be banned. Mr. Klein can certainly refuse to serve people who choose to be nazis or who espouse nazi propaganda.
Speech is a behavior, and while the people in your examples have the right to wear those shirts, the shopkeeper has a right to respond to that specific behavior by refusing to serve them.
But Mr Klein refused service because the other person was a woman, and not a man. That is not the same as wearing a shirt. 

I’ll repeat it as many times as necessary. You can refuse service based on someone’s behavior. You can’t refuse service based on someone’s identity.

Hilarious how you keep writing “you guys”.

Why, it’s almost as if you can only think in stereotypes.

True. But if it’s available to some people, it can’t be withheld from others simply because of their gender.
If I have the legal right to marry someone, it shouldn’t matter what my gender is. 

And I’m sure you know, Elena, that you don’t need a power of attorney if you’re legally married. So that’s not exactly an equal right?

Oregon is NOT a state with same-sex marriage laws on the books.

Nine states (CT, IA, ME, MD, MA, NH, NY, WA, and VT) plus Washington, D.C. have the freedom to marry for same-sex couples. In 2012, the legislature in NJ passed a freedom to marry bill, and work is now underway to override the governor’s veto. NM and RI explicitly respect out-of-state marriages of same-sex couples, while nine states now offer broad protections short of marriage. DE, HI, IL, NJ, and RI allow civil union, while CA, OR, and NV offer broad domestic partnership. Two other states (CO, WI) have more limited domestic partnership. 

http://www.freedomtomarry.org/states/

It would appear that this baker broke no law, per se.  The couple is breaking the law.

Why are you all so concerned with other people’s marriages? Why the need to control other people’s lives? You don’t know them, you will never meet most of them. So why the control freak behavior?

This has nothing to do with same-sex marriage. This is straight up gender discrimination. If her partner had a male name, the cake would have been made. It’s as simple as that.

How is making a cake for 2 women going against his religious beliefs. Show me the line in the bible that says “thou shalt not bake a cake for two women.”

You know what? I might not wanna make a cake for a couple of fags ,either! Then again I might not wanna make a cake for a couple of straight folks, too!   And in fact I have a couple of friends who are left-handed hitters, & they are welcome in my home, anytime. We choose to be friends. Our choice!   And when we have partied together we have told “queer jokes”,  redneck jokes, straight jokes, race jokes, and all kinda stuff.  Ain’t anyone else’s business! And we don’t have to explain who, what ,when or where we like some folks or don’t  like others to a doggone soul!  It just “is what it is”!    Our free choice to like who we like, & choose who we hang out with, & who we do business with.    Here’s the point:  As a free sovereign INDIVIDUAL , IT’S MY CHOICE!  TOTALLY! 

I refer to those who are posting in support of the shopkeeper and against the 2 women. Specifically. If you don’t share that opinion, then it’s not directed at you, guy.
Stereotypes? I’m not the one denying service to someone because of her gender.

You got it ass-backwards. 

Mr Klein is the one expressing HIS religious beliefs. A point you obdurately REFUSE to acknowledge.

But thanks for acknowledging that if he was forced,  by the “state”, to sell a product that offends his religion, then he would be being discriminated against.

By the way — ever heard of “Gay Only Cruises”? 

I hear they’re all the rage in California.

It would appear that 3 percent (homosexuals) of the population wants to control the other 97 percent’s (heterosexuals) behavior and attitude.  The 3 percent are demanding to be treated as if their conduct is normal, if not normative.  It is not normal, regardless of what the DSM says or does not say.  Normal sexual relations are betw male and female for procreation and recreation.

Homosexuals need to examine their own attitudes before pushing their behavior on the rest of us who will and do push back.  This “push back” is what you are receiving here.

Most Americans are willing to look the other way in an effort (live and let live and respect the minority), but many of us will push back when the homosexual “noise” becomes deafening.  We call that the dictatorship of the minority.

Oh, like if they are niggers, or kikes or is it just for queers?

How about “bigots get out of our marketplace”?

So like, if my religious belief is that I get to punch you in the face, you can’t complain if I do? How does that work?

You can obdurately refuse to accept that Mr Klein has a perfect right to refuse service for a purpose that offends his religion till you’re red in the face…

It doesn’t change the fact that he has a perfect right (that will undoubtedly be upheld) to refuse service based on his beliefs that same-sex marriage is against his religion.

But keep raging, signifying nothing.

Actually I’m concerned about tin-pot little fascists like you.

He is obviously interpreting the Biblical principle for today’s world.  His hermeneutic is correct since the Bible does condemn homosexuality.

Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible along with other sins using sex as the means (adultery, fornication, bestiality, etc).  Anytime you place one aspect of your being above God’s law, you sin.  Specifically, you break the first commandment by breaking fellowship with the God who redeems.  You are, in effect, saying that “I am god, and You are not.”

Jews and Christians are commended to be chaste and not misuse their personal sexuality.  We are called to be holy because our God is holy.  We are set apart fm the world in many ways, or should be behaving thus.

You cannot discriminate against an illegal act.

Wrong again. Yes, it clearly does have to do with same-sex marriage.

Try some joined up thinking. 

I believe in liberty. You should be able to say no honky’s, gays, or liberials on your own property. Now on the other hand you can’t do it in the public domain, where everyone is force to pay for something (government, park, etc)

Oh God, an oxymoron wrapped around a non sequitur. What are you, 12?

Muslim is not a condition of birth.  It’s a social system that masks itself in slightly religious terms.

There is NO homosexual gene.  It is a specific behavior, just like celibacy is a behavior.

You are free to be racist and sexist and homophobic all you want in the privacy of your own home. But when you interact with the public, we expect a modicum of decorum. You’re not free to break the law, no you are not.

Once again the only defense is “religious freedom?”

Why should business owners have to claim religious belief when it is freedom of speech or association under attack???

It’s not breaking the law.

http://www.happygaytravel.com/cruises.html - CachedThis cruise departs with only gay passengers and gay friendly crew.

like if they are niggers, or kikes or is it just  queers?

http://www.happygaytravel.com/cruises.html - CachedThis cruise departs with only gay passengers and gay friendly crew.

We consider birth religion to be a condition of birth, tied to culture, yes we do. I agree it’s a little tricky, because people can convert as adults, but in the US we consider religion a protected category like race, gender, and national origin. 
I’m sure that the Christians here are happy that no shopkeeper can discriminate against them because of their religious beliefs.
Islam is, of course, a religion. It is a social system as much as any religion is a social system. 
Genes don’t really work like that, but in any case, homosexuality is clearly NOT a behavior, it is an identity.
I’m sure you realize that whether someone is gay, straight, bisexual, or asexual, there is a variety of behavior to choose from. All those people choose between vaginal, anal, and oral sex, celibacy, monogamy, or polyamory, etc. 
There are straights that have anal sex and sleep around, there are gays that don’t have anal sex and are monogamous, etc. 
You’re smart, Elena, I’m sure you see my point.

http://www.happygaytravel.com/cruises.html - CachedThis cruise departs with only gay passengers and gay friendly crew.

The shopkeeper is free to say whatever he wants, and hang out with whoever he wants. What does this have to do with speech or association?

Actually, it is.

http://www.happygaytravel.com/cruises.html - CachedThis cruise departs with only gay passengers and gay friendly crew.

LOL. I believe in your right to say the offensive, stupid, ridiculous thing you just said.

http://www.happygaytravel.com/cruises.html - CachedThis cruise departs with only gay passengers and gay friendly crew.

The shopkeeper has no way of knowing if there’s even a wedding. He was asked to bake a wedding cake, but that could be just for fun. He refused because the 2nd person was female, not male. That’s gender discrimination.

Ordering a cake is not illegal.

http://www.happygaytravel.com/cruises.html - CachedThis cruise departs with only gay passengers and gay friendly crew.

LOL. I’m advocating for civil rights, whereas you think discrimination is okay, and I’m the fascist? I don’t think you know what that word means. But if I’m so inferior, what are you concerned about?

You’re the one who said you’re inferior. Boy, that’s some complex.

And by “boy” I wasn’t making a racial comment.

And it would not go against his believes

Have whatever attitude you want. But yes, behaviors are regulated through laws. Homosexuality is found in every mammal species, meaning it is natural and normal, but you can feel free to hate gays all you want. You can obsess over the sex they have, picture it with rage, tell everyone about how terrible it is. Have at it.
But you can’t discriminate against anyone because of your backwards hate. It’s as simple as that. 
When the sex that two women have in private starts to affect you, you can do something about it. That’s why it’s illegal to have sex in public. (So I’m unclear what you’re looking the other way about.)
Short of that, it’s really none of your business what kind of sex people have.

 What bullcrap.

No surprise that Glenn Beck is tired of this and wants to move along, but your attitude shows exactly what people have to deal with.

This business owner will be put through the wringer by these scumbags who could not simply go to some shop that would welcome their business. The business owner, if he has the fortitude and can afford to deal with all the legal harassment and lost work-hours, may eventually be exonerated. But then he will still be out a great deal of money and time, and his business will probably be the target of vandalism and worse along the way, not to mention all this public slander brought on entirely by the actions of the rejected customer.

More often, victims of this kind of legal harassment and censorship give up the fight and try to find some cheaper or faster way out, even if it means cowing to the bullies.

What we really need is legal recourse against such harassment. Something to make the fight worthwhile for victims like this business owner, by punishing those who abuse the legal system.

If you’re going to use a phrase like “tin-pot”, you should know what it means.

If a straight wanted to sign up, no one would stop him. No one would refuse to serve him. Try it.

I’m not “racist” or “homophobic” or any of that other pre-programmed knee-jerk stuff wussies love to spew whenever they are confronted with true, free-spirited, freedom loving INDIVIDUALS.  The fact that I’m not pre-programmed to like who I like or otherwise, regardless of race, creed , color or sexual oreintation & my gay freinds are exactly the same, obviously upsets your very narrow preconcieved notions about how you want people to be.   My non-straight friends could teach you a whole lot about people, & about what it means to be a free American.   And I’d just step back, laughing at you & let them attempt to educate you!   You probably don’t have a lot of freinds & are po’d at those of us who do,  due to our true liberal approach to other folks, because we actually do have friends  of all sizes, shapes, colors, needs ,wants & desires, and on top of that we ALL have a helluva great sense of humor , something else you are lacking, that is if your post isn’t a joke!   hahahaah!

feel better now? I have no idea what you said, but if you want to talk about the subject at hand, and stop obsessing over me personally, then go for it.
Ask your gay friends if they support the shopkeeper’s right to refuse service because of her gender. Ask your female friends.

If a hetero person wanted to take this cruise, no one would stop him. They would not refuse service. Try it and see.

What belief was being challenged? His religion tells him that 2 women are not allowed to have cake together? What religion is that?

Yeah, you said that a couple times already. Do I need to respond again?

The Old Testament condemns homosexuality for the people of ancient Israel, not for everyone. When was the last time you actually read it?
And the OT also says to keep kosher, which you ignore. 
Oh Jesus came so you don’t have to follow the OT? Then don’t use it to justify hatred.
And Jesus never said one word about homosexuality.
So actually, the Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality. Or abortion, while we’re at it.

If you think you’re called to behave a certain way because of your religion, then I applaud that, and encourage you to behave appropriately.
But you’re aware that in this country you can’t impose your religious beliefs on others, right? 

Typical wussie response, &  you say you don’t understnd plain English, because it bothers you ,so you choose a chickensh!t dodge.  So EASY!   And my gay friends DO  agree with ANY individual’s rights to do business with anyone for any reason. One of them has her own small business & has rejected doing work for other folks, well…just because  she chooses not to.    Same way you can say, that you don’t like me…it’s your right!  Got it?  And I won’t even cry & scream about discrimiantion or some other phony “vicitm” crap, as I can take it & THAT’S JUST LIFE!

I bet this person is getting a massive boom to his business now, just like Chick-fil-A.

Kudos to him, we need more businesses doing this.

Cite the statute.

Marriage is not a right.  It’s a foundation of society in which responsible adults raise the next generation of humans.  When the family breaks down, so does the culture in which that failure is located.  Witness the Black American culture — it was vibrant and dynamic until welfare destroyed the family by sending the men away.  You don’t get that welfare check if you have an able-bodied man living with you.  Boys and girls lost men as role models, and children without both role models ended up creating multiple generations that continued the spiral downward.  Gangs now are the poor substitute for male role models in the inner city where Black Americans live in abject poverty w/o the basic building block of culture.
Get it now?

 He is not, according to you, free to NOT support homosexual unions in either speech or action, nor free to refuse association with these complainers.

Your problem may be that you stopped seeing the business owner as a human being when he opened a business, but that is not the case.

The Chick-fil-A owner listened to the protests, opened his heart, and changed his position. He doesn’t donate to anti-gay groups anymore. So yes, I hope for the same outcome here.
But in Oregon, he’ll hurt his business more than help it with this kind of discrimination.

LOL — no, it’s not in all mammal species.  Males humping males is a territorial or primacy defense, not a sexual advance.  Only in humans is homosexuality practices for recreational purposes.

Of course he’s a human being. One desperately in need of education. Of course he can say whatever he wants in private.
But if he wants to run a business, and take advantage of taxpayer funded infrastructure, he can’t discriminate. 

Refusing service isn’t either.

Before you make your standard reply “it’s illegal,” cite your statute fm either USC or state code.

 I forget, what were those anti-gay groups again?

You rather made my point — individuals choose how they have sex. That’s a behavior.

You would do well to read up on islam before you make a statement that it’s equivalent with other religions.  Islam intends to conquer the world and install itself as the ONLY system of political and religious practice.  But that is a different topic for a different day.

 ”Taxpayer funded infrastructure”

Hehe..

“You didn’t build that!”

I have a feeling that business owner is paying more taxes toward the local economy than the busibodies who are abusing the legal system to force themselves on him. Those women are more likely costing that town more by this action than they will ever pay in.

Knowitsome (or more like No Whits) Why don’t you know our state laws before you state something so stupid…

In Oregon we have “Right To Refuse Service” Laws, for things as simple as No Shirt or Shoes in a Restaraunt.  Who the hell are you to tell me who I can serve or not, cause you sure as hell are not my master!!!  I have Gay Friends, I have friends of All Kinds of Nationalities and Religious Beliefs.  Most Importantly I have Rights Too…

 @Knowit – So a business can’t refuse due to somebody’s identity?  Then why is it federal law that felons can’t buy guns? I mean isn’t that technically discrimination based on past offenses?

 @Knowit – So a business can’t refuse due to somebody’s identity?  Then why is it federal law that felons can’t buy guns? I mean isn’t that technically discrimination based on past offenses?

I believe it was the AFA.
Don’t know if Chic-fil-A ceased donations or not; feel free to do Knowit’s research on the matter.

I believe it was the AFA.
Don’t know if Chic-fil-A ceased donations or not; feel free to do Knowit’s research on the matter.

The same thing happened in Denver last year.  The owner of the bakery said he would be more than happy to make a cake for the “couple” … but not a wedding cake.  It seems like more and more pseudo-liberals are attempting to SET UP legitimate business owners with this type of “request”.  If they want a wedding cake for a pretend wedding they should bake their own.

The same thing happened in Denver last year.  The owner of the bakery said he would be more than happy to make a cake for the “couple” … but not a wedding cake.  It seems like more and more pseudo-liberals are attempting to SET UP legitimate business owners with this type of “request”.  If they want a wedding cake for a pretend wedding they should bake their own.

  I didn’t  know that someone else had to do the fudge packing for the cake for gays

Dear Knowitsome:
 
You’re trying to make a case where there is none. The basis of refusal of service is not that one, or the other is a woman, it’s because the PRODUCT (wedding cake) being asked for celebrates/advertises a sacrilegious event. The proprioter is practicing his religion!  I bet they could order a plain cake!  The happy couple should act adult and practice consumerism by taking their anger and business to another bakery.  Have their friends conduct a boycott of the evil bakery, etc.
 
In the mean time, I would like the address of “Sweet Cakes by Melissa” so that I can support their freedom of religion by ordering some muffins!
 
Sincerely, Joe

ps:

By the way, if the couple forces the baker to make them a cake would you be comfortable eating it, not knowing what went inside?????

Same sex marriage is insane. Its always refreshing to see American citizens standing up to the perversion ruining our country.

You have the legal right to marry same-gendered in only a few states.  DOMA is still the law even when Obama refuses to defend it.

Again, marriage is not a right, per se.  If anything, it’s a privilege with inherent responsibilities to the society as a whole.

In this country, you can have sex w/whomever you please.  In some states, you can extend your sexual escapades to whatever you please, too.  However, you cannot marry a donkey…at least not yet.

@Knowit – As a Christian, I am grafted into the People of Israel.  In the New Testament, Jesus clearly says that marriage is betw one man and one woman, regardless of what others were practicing.  Paul also points in that same direction.  In the first chapter of Romans, he clearly reiterates homosexuality as condemned.  In Corinthians, he writes of avoiding sexual immorality using the euphemism of food and the belly for sex.
How do you know whether or not I keep kosher?  As a matter of fact, I love reading the OT.
I am not of a mind to hate anyone, not you or anyone else.  I find homosexuality at odds with the core beliefs of Jews and Christians.  I have friends who are homosexuals, but they also know that I find their conduct as repugnant as my adulterous heterosexual friends.

As to imposing my beliefs on another, that is not what this discussion is about.  It’s just the opposite.  The homosexual activists are attempting to impose their beliefs and conduct on Biblically observant people.

Your rights end where my nose begins.

If he is Christian, he will not defile the cake.  Spite is not part of how we practice our faith.

Dear Elena:

I’m sure you’re correct.  It was just a consideration for the couple.

Joe

 Wait a second! Who is imposing religion/belief on others here? Is the owner imposing his religion on the gay couple here? Is he saying that they shouldn’t get married because it’s against his religion? He’s simply saying “They can do whatever they want but he doesn’t want to be a part of it because of his belief”. How is that imposing his religion on the gay couple? How about the gay couple taking him to the court for refusing to make cake because it’s against his belief? Don’t you think these gay couple are imposing their belief on the owner? Don’t you think these gay couple are really small minded and wrongheaded here because they think THEY HAVE TO be served by everybody/anybody they want? Of course, you wouldn’t think so because you are a real wrongheaded and narrow minded idiot. It’s like a kid crying out loud for any sort of attention just because they can’t get what they want. It’s so typical of such narrow minded libs. They HAVE TO GET what they want all the time but other people can’t. Grow up!

 Exactly! Why the need to control other people’s lives? Why do these gay people have to control this owner’s life./belief? If they don’t like his opinions, fine! Go somewhere else!

 Follow your own advice.

You don’t get out much, do you?  Yes, bakers put names on all types of cakes, including wedding cakes.
That being said, a private business has the right to serve whom they choose.  Don’t like their policy?  Choose another bakery.  Got to be more than one around.  But, get over it, same sex couple ar a very small minority.

Yes, what law is the bakery breaking?

But they didn’t ask for a CAKE they asked for a WEDDING CAKE.  Now, if he couldn’t bake the cake because he already had more work than he could handle, would that be discrimination?

I say again, what law says the baker has to bake a wedding cake for anyone who asks?

 ”My business, my rules”

You should go to http://www.cafepress.com and have those placards mocked up for print on demand. Sell them to every independently-owned business in the country.

Not even kidding. You’re onto something there.

I would have baked the cake and charge them doulble based on the stress factors etc. that would make the task more difficult and then I would have donated the extra money to the Boy Scouts.  Turn them tables on ‘em.

A ship on its way to hell filled with AIDS to spread!

I wonder how far this would have gone had it been a Black American Bakery and a Left Wing Socialist Nazi came in and wanted a cake with racist remarks and decorations on it?

I wonder how far this would have gone had it been a Black American Bakery and a Left Wing Socialist Nazi came in and wanted a cake with racist remarks and decorations on it?

I believe that would get you into more trouble than just refusing service.

Double the price probably would not be nearly enough to justify compromised principles, anyway.

“Black American culture…was vibrant and dynamic until welfare destroyed the family”? What a vile and ignorant statement!

That remark betrays shameful ignorance of history and American civilization. Your understanding of the conditions of Black America are equally as misguided as your understanding of human sexuality. If you’re sincere about having no hatred for such groups, you should check your opinions against reality, because your remarks suggest profound misunderstanding and antipathy.

 Limiting the argument to mammals now, I see.

Must have read that article about those cute little penguins previously being paraded around and presented in children’s books as evidence of “homosexuality” outside our species.

You know, the one that pointed out they were rife with necrophilia and other anthropomorphic “perversions” as well.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/penguins-graphic-sex-acts-shocked-antarctic-explorer-ashamed-reveal-article-1.1093723

Truth is, what you point out about sexual domination in mammals
also applies to us when placed into stressful environments such as
prison. We should be refining the art of overcoming stupid animal behaviors, not trying to revert.

the government is a petty troublemaker.  this whole thing is about us noticing them so they can regulate it, of course.

they’ve got their citizen soldier who wants the world to recognize they’re gay, they’re black and/or atheist and our lives must come to a halt until we bow to them.

we don’t bow.

this is the main reason I oppose same sex marriage; people go too far and stupid law suits will be the norm. suppose a priest refuses to marry them? do they get to take the church to court? HOGWASH!!! 

I’m sick to death of everyone that chooses a lifestyle other than the norm thinks the entire country and world should lap up their opinions and agree with them..Well  I say we have freedom of speech like all the wacko’s that think we have to que ta to their whims.Quit bowing down to accomodate these attention wanting  drama queens. Start their own bakery for their own kind is what I’d tell them..This country is going down the toilet because of this kind of BS.I say, if you don’t like the heat, get out of the kitchen..Find someplace else to live. 

I just never seen it done.

I admit I’m a bit confused…where is the line between the Guaranteed rights of freedom of expression and freedom of religion vs. discrimination? If we stand up for our beliefs, are we discriminating or just exercising our rights?

Now that homosexuality has become mainstream, they wrongly think that they are accepted everywhere. This is a case in point that not everyone is on board with this lifestyle. It doesn’t bother me, but obviously it does bother the baker. I believe the problem here is the fact that the young lady mistakenly thought EVERYONE was on board with homosexuality. Her own personal little bubble was burst. No big deal, just reality. Move on and find someone who wants to sell a cake.

NOW you’re pushing it!!!

Not really..because he isn’t refusing to serve, as he’s aid she/they were welcomed in the store. He was refusing to participate in a ceremony he disapproved of and did not want to support…thereby exercising his right of religious freedom….

I’m wondering if this could have been a setup to try to sue the bakery owner.  He has a right to serve whomever he wishes. 

Kree-Tin, you are so fricken’ stupid…

Have you ever heard of a thing called, “Separation of Church & State”?  Our forefathers had added this into the Constitution for exactly this reason to keep the Government from Forcing people to do what their religion says Not To Do!  If they force him to submit then there is actually Oppression of the Church by the Government! 

But, in your Ignorance you are saying that you “Condone Slavery” because you are saying that people No Longer Have the Right to Choose What They Want To Do With Their Own Lives and that Others Can Dictate What They Must Do…

People get into business for themselves so that they can get out from under other peoples rules and orders.  They don’t do it necessarily to Serve the World!

What I don’t understand is that the woman in question has to call it a same sex cake. Why call it anything? It’s a cake for someone’s wedding yet the point was made as if she wanted to rub it in his face who it was for. Seems to me the couple in question wanted to call attention to the fact they are lesbians.
Kudos to the baker for standing up for his beliefs. Had he not know who it was for, he probably would have made a wedding cake for a couple, but they chose to make it an issue.

Owners of businesses have the right to post a sign that says “We have the right to refuse service”. The said customer has the right not to enter said business.
Why would a straight person want to enter a gay bar? It’s plain wrong to discriminate against someone because of race or color of their skin. Discrimination because of actions by these same people is different. No, I would not serve a rapist who happens to be black. No, I would not serve a rapist who happens to be white either.
As a Christian I find homosexuality an abomination, but they have been in existence since the dawn of man. They live among us and that’s fine. I treat them as I would anyone else. That changes when they trespass on my beliefs.
If I were a baker and someone came in and ordered a wedding cake, I wood gladly make it. The fact that the person called it a same sex wedding cake changes everything and I would have the right to deny that request.

Frankly I don’t care. Even sinners need to eat. Do we refuse to sell our wheat on the market because some people who are sinners might eat it? If you’re a mechanic, would you refuse to fix a sinners car? But I believe you have the right to do or not do as you will. If it works for you to refuse service, that’s fine.

This guy seems to be a product of a Public School System where there funds are cut, cut and cut or do they teach stupid racism in public school. BTW- Recently here in NJ there was a gazebo owned by a church group. They rent the place out for weddings and birthday parties. They refused to rent it out to a gay wedding ceremony. The court stepped in and told them they could not do that. As far as this guy boycott his bakery he will get the message.

His religion is anti-cake?

No, he doesn’t.

Oh, they are well aware that there are still some small-minded, backwards haters that are so obsessed with anal sex that they can’t stop thinking about it. How many Republicans have to caught in bathroom stalls adopting a wide stance, or having sex with their underage male pages, for right wingers to realize that their homophobia tells us everything about them, and nothing about real gay people?

Exactly. Believing that a man was god, or believing that Jesus ever said one word about homosexuality is abnormal, and shouldn’t be accepted by anyone. 

Oh, and if you don’t like the bill of rights, find someplace else to live.

So you oppose the right of strangers to marry each other because of some false, made up scenario that never happened? Nice thinking. 

LOL. You thing the government is a troublemaker in this case, but you’re the first one who wants the government to control a woman’s body. Hypocrite.

You don’t have to bow. You just have to treat them fairly. Duh.

I wonder when you people are going to understand the difference between BEING SOMETHING and SAYING OR DOING SOMETHING.

LOL.

The boy scouts are changing their policy and embracing gays.

I say again, if he’s discriminating based on gender, age, sexual orientation, national origin, etc, the Oregon law 659A.403 says so. 

no, but he wasn’t smart enough to say that.

659A.403 Oregon State Law http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/659a.html

LOL. How I wish other Christians were really Christian.

Yeah, so was interracial marriage to you guys. Yawn.

His religion cannot be preventing other people from practicing their religion. If he doesn’t want to marry another man, he doesn’t have to. If he doesn’t want to attend their wedding, he doesn’t have to.
But to refuse to serve the customer simply because her partner is female and not male is direct gender discrimination. It’s the same as if he refused to serve someone because they were male, or black, or foreign, or old.
It’s illegal.

You might have told Rosa Parks to just catch another bus, but that’s not the way it works in this country. 

LOL. Another conservative obsessed with anal sex. Why don’t you go to an airport bathroom and adopt a wide stance. You know you want to.

or ask me nicely:
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/19/nation/la-na-nn-chick-fil-a-gay-marriage-20120919

No, he can say what he wants in public, within reason. (He can’t curse in front of children, for example.)
But there are consequences.
And if he’s running a business, then he can’t discriminate. If he doesn’t like it, he can bake cakes for himself and doesn’t have to sell them to the public.

You said “a couple of fags”, and then claimed not to be homophobic. LOL. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously. 

659A.403 Oregon state law.

They’re not trying to control his beliefs, they’re just trying to buy a cake free of discrimination.

659A.403

And the shopkeeper has no idea what kind of sex the women are having, and if he’s thinking about it, that’s his issue, not theirs.
Ordering a cake has nothing to do with the kind of sex they have, whether they are monogamous or polyamorous, etc.

Thus proving that sex and marriage have very little to do with each other. As any married person can tell you.

Thats a stupid and presumptous comment. The kind of generalization that comes from ignorant bigots. I have no problen with interacial marriage, as long as its between a man and a woman. Truthfully, If the society I live in deems gay marriage acceptable and a just distribution of human and civil rights, then Im ok with it. But I, as many others do, still believe it is wrong and perverse.

You are entitled to think it’s wrong and perverse. You don’t have to do it. 
But it’s also wrong and perverse for you to try to impose that on others. 
Live and let live.

Dear Knowitsome:

Your personal desires for acceptance is clouding your logic. Allow me to make some quick points regarding your last response:

Dear Knowitsome: 1. Lesbianism is NOT a religion. 2. Being a lesbian is NOT a gender. 3. The baker is NOT refusing service, he’s refusing to produce SPECIFIC product, i.e. a “wedding cake.” Nobody can force a manufacturer to produce a product they believe is offensive. Joe

go right ahead.

He refused service because her partner was female and not male. Gender discrimination. It has nothing to do with what kind of sex the women may or may not have been having in private.

oh come on, don’t you know that blacks were better off under slavery?  ;-)

“@Knowit – As a Christian, I am grafted into the People of Israel.”
As a Christian, your people are responsible for the mass murder and torture of Jews throughout history. You are not part of the people of Israel, you’re not attached, we don’t want you. You practice your religion, and worship a human, and we’ll practice ours. The only reason why you like Israel is because you want the Apocalypse to happen there, and we don’t need that kind of support.

” In the New Testament, Jesus clearly says that marriage is betw one man and one woman, regardless of what others were practicing. ”
Exactly where does he say that? Chapter and verse, please. 
” Paul also points in that same direction.  In the first chapter of Romans, he clearly reiterates homosexuality as condemned.”
again, where?
”  In Corinthians, he writes of avoiding sexual immorality using the euphemism of food and the belly for sex.”
Monogamy is moral. Divorce and cheating are not. Therefore, a gay married couple is more moral than a cheating hetero couple.
“How do you know whether or not I keep kosher? ”
And how do you know what kind of sex people are having?
” I find homosexuality at odds with the core beliefs of Jews and Christians”
There are millions of Jews and Christians who don’t have any problem with it, and it’s not up to you to define anyone’s beliefs for them. You can find it at odds. That’s fine. But you can’t impose that belief on others.
“I have friends who are homosexuals, but they also know that I find their conduct as repugnant as my adulterous heterosexual friends.”
You really think they’re your friends? How can you hang out with someone who sins like that. Hanging out with them is a sin
“As to imposing my beliefs on another, that is not what this discussion is about.  It’s just the opposite.  The homosexual activists are attempting to impose their beliefs and conduct on Biblically observant people.”
You have no idea how Biblically observant the shopkeeper is. You don’t know him or what he does. And they’re not trying to get him to think anything is ok. They’re just asking to be treated like everyone else.

Homosexuality is not a behavior. Rape is something done. Homosexuality is not something done. Homosexuals are celibate, or monogamous, or whatever. They have the full range of sexual behavior as heteros. Some people have oral and anal sex, some don’t, and there are heteros and homosexuals in both groups.

And how does asking for a cake trespass on your beliefs? Got something against cake??

Dave’s favorite web site, apparently.

I think the line is in between beliefs and behavior. You can believe anything you want, but if you act on that belief in a way that abridges someone’s rights, that is wrong.

He wasn’t being asked to participate in any ceremony. He’s not invited to the wedding.

Behavior does not equal identity.

Separation of church and state? Yes, that means that you can’t discriminate against someone with regard to public accommodations based on your religious beliefs.

Committing a felony is a BEHAVIOR. 

Just for the record, I no longer respond to idiots or people with the mentality of a squirrel.

He doesn’t have that right. Not in Oregon. Not when he’s refusing service because of gender or orientation or religion or age or national origin.

You’d say the same if a shopkeeper refused to serve blacks?

At least no one will be able to accuse you of talking to yourself…

Yeah, they had it easy, while their less fortunate brothers back in Africa were being chased by lions.

Did you know that it was Republicans and conservatives, and not Democrats and liberals, who were the force behind the Civil Rights movement of the 50s and 60s?  And Martin Luther King was a Republican.  

Keep up the good work.  It’s important to combat nonsense with sense.    

What if they changed their ways?  And what if the felony was several years back and they have been clean since? The store would have to refuse them service based on federal law, no matter the circumstances.

Also being gay is a behavior too, despite the left trying to convince everybody that being gay is not a choice and that they were born that way.

Also gays are most notoriously anti-Christian.  So being gay and forcing Christians to serve you, is actually a form of religious discrimination.

 Why would the owner have to be Jewish?

I wouldn’t serve a skinhead like that, and I’m neither religious nor Jewish. Oddly enough, though, I would have nothing whatsoever to fear in taking that stance because skinheads are not a protected species.

Ahh… not so surprising that the guy who hasn’t figured out the difference between “there” and “their” has to ask what is taught in school.

As for the gazebo you mentioned: the court was simply wrong, and if that case has not been pressed beyond the local courts it is only a sign that the owners could not afford to continue the fight.

It is also evidence that Glenn Beck was wrong to dismiss this sort of harassment as a non-story.

It has not changed yet, but even if it does we can start a new boy scout org. One that has takes the straight and narrow path.

Oregan’s Att. General should be tarred and feathered for even wasting time on this complaint. I admire the Baker for standing up for his beliefs and principles. I would do the same in my business.

critton its past your bed time. Now go potty and crawl into your cave. Readyour book “Rules for Radicals”, say your pledge to King Obama and leave this site for the grown ups.

They have the right to refuse service to anyone. I do and will not be forced to go againest my beliefs. If this Lesbos dont like that go somewhere else. This politically perfect crap is just that CRAP! Homosexuality is not normal and no matter how much you spout it doesnt make it true!

You have it backwards “Religion get out of my Government’

Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds

You have it wrong again garak99, if religion was controlling our government we would be under Sharia Law like muslim/islamist are…

Ok – lets say this guy has a storefront where he sells eclairs, cakes, pies, coffee, etc. To the extent that he sells those things it is a “public accomodation” and as such is subject to Oregon’s “public accomodation” laws. If he doesn’t want to sell eclairs and coffee to homosexuals who walk in then he better find another business.

However, you can’t just walk in and pick up a wedding cake from the counter. This is a special order, and a private contract. If this bakery owner chooses not to enter into a private contract with somebody (for any reason) that is his business.

So a pastor should marry gays and if not it is discrimination?  Are you serious?  And you don’t think that can happen?  Naive are you!

Maybe this guy does not agree with gay marriage.  Go somewhere else and buy a cake then.  Leave this guy alone!

I support traditional marriage because GOD does not support it and he calls the shots.  If you want to have a relationship with the same sex then go ahead.  Just call it something else!

The shopkeeper needs to be taught a lesson, and he needs to be made an example for anyone who thinks about discriminating.

Oy. Really?
Committing a felony is a behavior.

First of all, if two women he doesn’t know buying a cake together offends his religion, that’s a pretty stupid religion. But no, if he wants to run a store in public, and take advantage of taxpayer-financed infrastructure, he has to play by the rules.

Yeah, I’ve heard of them. You’ve mentioned them a few times. Do you have their site bookmarked?
As I said, If you, as a curious straight man, would like to go on one of those cruises, they’d be happy to take you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

Oregon 659A.403
UNLAWFUL EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, MARITAL STATUS OR AGE
659A.403 Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited

Oregon 659A.403
UNLAWFUL EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, MARITAL STATUS OR AGE
659A.403 Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited

“You rather made my point — individuals choose how they have sex. That’s a behavior.”

The shopkeeper was not discriminating against them because of what kind of sex they were having. He has no idea what kind of sex they’re having. For all he knows, they could be celibate. Lots of married couples don’t have any sex.
He discriminated against her because her partner was female, not male. It’s not even based on sexual orientation.
It’s simply gender discrimination.

Here’s your state law:
Oregon 659A.403
UNLAWFUL EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF RACE, COLOR, RELIGION, SEX, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, NATIONAL ORIGIN, MARITAL STATUS OR AGE
659A.403 Discrimination in place of public accommodation prohibited

Asking for a cake with offensive writing is another behavior. They weren’t refused service because of what they wanted on their cake. They were refused service because they were both female.

I think actions, behavior, is where you draw the line. Say and think what you want, but impose that on others and that infringes their rights. Acting in a way that forces others to abide by your beliefs is fascism.

He’s a baker. He refused to make them a cake. He wasn’t participating in any ceremony. He wasn’t invited to the ceremony. He was asked to bake a cake and refused because both people were women. Which is irrelevant when it comes to cake eating.

On your response I agree, how come the gay couple has the Freedom of Choice to pick the Bakery to make that cake?  Why can’t they just be Forced to Buy From a Certain Bakery that will cater to their wants (not needs)?  Why is it the Bakery Owner has to be Forced to Make a cake for them, where is his Freedom of Choice, Religion, and the right to refuse service for someone that is causing problems for his business??? (that was mainly meant for knowitsome)

First paragraph, true. Second, not so much. Entering into a private contract in a store like that still counts as public accommodations under the law.

And you’d be charged and sued too if your beliefs and principles involve discrimination based on one of the protected categories.

Key Word “EMPLOYMENT”…

They did not go in asking for a job that they were fully qualified for, and you still need to prove that it supercedes the “Right to Refuse Service Laws” (which one set Precedent).  And there has been no evidence to say that he was publicly derogetory against them, only refused to make their cake! 

Now, you are being total assenine, because to enforce those laws would create another Gov’t Department, “The Office of Public Business Discrimination” or should we call it, “The Public Servatude Department” that would make sure no one could be in business for themselves but Have to Serve the State/Fed’s…  I Do Not Think So!!!

A pastor? No. But a shopkeeper? A baker? That has nothing to do with religion, or private sexual activity, or who the person loves. 

If someone is actually causing problems for their business, that is a behavior, and action, and of course the shopkeeper can refuse service.
But he can’t refuse service just because he doesn’t like blacks or Jews or old people or foreigners or women or homosexuals.
That’s part of the price you pay for taking advantage of the taxpayer funded infrastructure.
If you want delivery trucks using public roads to bring your goods to your store, or tax advantage of small business tax breaks, or street parking, or any number of things that the community and taxpayers provide, then you have to play by the rules.

You mean like how Christian holidays are official national holidays, but no other religion’s holidays are?

Another genius who can’t tell the difference between belief and behavior.

Traditional, biblical marriage? Like polygamy (Jacob and his 2 wives, Leah and Rachel), or the law that says if a woman is raped, she has to marry her rapist? Or marrying your slave or concubine? Or having children with your wife and maid in a nice happy family like Abraham?
That kind of traditional, biblical marriage?

Draxx, 

Now I am Convinced that you are an Obamanite…

Do you know anything about the old testament?  Those were warnings from GOD!  All of it was.  Why do you think he sent his only son?

What if those bakers, shopkeepers, etc., are christians?  Aren’t there a lot of bakers around?  I guess you can’t go somewhere else?

What I find interesting is that
homosexuals are cheering for believers to be condemned and sanctioned
by the law for exercising their beliefs. HOWEVER, gays are the pawns because
they are being used as the catalyst to take our rights away not
understanding their rights will go out the door right along with the believers.
So we all are losing here. A business getting investigated because of their
beliefs is simply unconstitutional and un-American. Any homosexual with an
ounce of common sense, flip the situation around. What if a homosexual was
investigated by the Attorney General for not wanting to bake a cake that read
“Leviticus 18:22.” would homosexuals
still feel this type of investigation was fair?

People have got to wake up. All of
our rights are at risk here and homosexuals do not care. They are willing to
sacrifice all of our rights for their perversions. We need prayer and we need action!
Christians have got to become more active in the fight, we’ve been vocal long
enough it’s time to act!

God be with us! Pray and pray again!

Because this country was formed on Christian values, despite what some people want to think. 

But that is still not Christianity controlling the government. The government never declared Christianity the official religion either.

Homosexuals need to realize the majority of people believe their lifestyle is wrong. Christianity is not going anywhere either. 

Christians DO NOT hate homosexuals! We are not afraid of them. Our Bible, the inspired Word of God, both testaments, tell us it is wrong. So we do not support, or bend to the will of homosexuals. That doesn’t mean we are “small-minded, backwards haters”

A senior Republican operative said the party has two huge, unresolved impediments to the top leaders’ grand plans: “suicide conservatives, who would rather lose elections than win seats with moderates,” and the “many groups on the hard right that depend on direct mail fundraising that requires a high degree of audacity, and borderline shrillness.”

Throw in a third obstacle: loudmouth personalities like Glenn Beck and candidates who, once created, are hard to control.

They are
trying to infect the Christian hierarchy with their propaganda and lifestyle.

Lets tell the evolutionary process that we as a civilization will be late in
paying the rent this century. Unfortunately for them, the bias will grow as they continue to push. It’s not going to
be the other way around. Many millions of Americans are still very disgusted as
they try to be tolerant with homosexuals. On the grid, most people feel like they are
being violated by a bogus ideology. The
21st. Century will not adjust to something that still feels freakish! I imagine, as people loose their morality, these lines will be drawn closer together. If I was a homosexual. .. I would defend myself, of course.Because I am not a homosexual, I stand to defend my own sense of what is right.This will be unending.There is no solution. You cannot brainwash people with another morality.If it wasn’t for our sense of survival and continuum through our children, our internal migratory need to duplicate would be halted and rather compromised by the political process of a minority. We draw distinct lines, as being human. We learn acceptance through the challenging efforts of those that wish to fight for it.The fight is just beginning.. .. we are ‘trying’ to listen.