Cass Sunstein: It’s for your own good!

Get Glenn Live! On TheBlaze TV

Cass Sunstein has penned a brutally over worded article titled “It’s for your own good!” that makes the case for paternalism and nanny state government. Some people, even Jon Stewart, were outraged over Mayor Bloomberg’s banning of sodas larger than 16oz. But should they be upset? Of course not!

Sunstein wrote:

 In Mill’s view, the problem with outsiders, including government officials, is that they lack the necessary information. Mill insists that the individual “is the person most interested in his own well-being,” and the “ordinary man or woman has means of knowledge immeasurably surpassing those that can be possessed by any one else.”When society seeks to overrule the individual’s judgment, Mill wrote, it does so on the basis of “general presumptions,” and these “may be altogether wrong, and even if right, are as likely as not to be misapplied to individual cases.” If the goal is to ensure that people’s lives go well, Mill contends that the best solution is for public officials to allow people to find their own path. Here, then, is an enduring argument, instrumental in character, on behalf of free markets and free choice in countless situations, including those in which human beings choose to run risks that may not turn out so well.

Mill’s claim has a great deal of intuitive appeal. But is it right? That is largely an empirical question, and it cannot be adequately answered by introspection and intuition. In recent decades, some of the most important research in social science, coming from psychologists and behavioral economists, has been trying to answer it. That research is having a significant influence on public officials throughout the world. Many believe that behavioral findings are cutting away at some of the foundations of Mill’s harm principle, because they show that people make a lot of mistakes, and that those mistakes can prove extremely damaging

Glenn was not impressed.

“Let me tell you something. I made a lot of mistakes in my life and this is where we’ve gone astray. We’ve made mistakes. That’s part of life. No one is perfect. You’ll make mistakes, but because mistakes have natural consequences, you either learn from those mistakes or you perish. For instance, if I hadn’t learned from my alcoholism, I would end up like ‑‑ who’s the woman that was the country star that just passed away? Mindy McCready.  I would end up like that.  She couldn’t learn from her mistakes.  I did.  And because of my mistakes and because I learned from them, I’m better for them.  I’m better off for them because I learned from them,” Glenn said.

“Now let’s take it out of the personal and let’s go to the business world. Do you think anybody’s going to learn from their mistakes at the banks? Do you think anybody who is being bailed out by the federal government (has learned from their mistakes)?”

“Every single one of us can look at the federal government right now and say they have present bias. They are only worrying about today and they are not worrying about the consequences of tomorrow. But that’s those of us who don’t really understand people like Cass Sunstein, that don’t really understand.”

“They’re (progressives) encouraging you to live for today. Go out and spend. Help the economy. Well, they don’t. They are laying their plans against us, quite honestly, against man’s freedom. They are building and currently justifying amongst the elites, justifying a world without autonomy. They don’t have present bias. They know exactly what they’re building. They’re building the world of tomorrow. And they are telling you to live, drink and be merry today.”

“Let me tell you something: I stand by the fact that I said several years ago Cass Sunstein is the most dangerous man in America because the Republicans and the Democrats like him,” he said. “People, people in the Republican Party like his choice structure because it gives them more power. People, if you believe in people, you don’t do this. I happen to believe in people, but people will get weaker the more you expect them to be weak. The more ‑‑ the less you expect them to do, the more dumb you expect them to be, the easier you make their life, the more you take away any consequences from any of their actions, they will become everything that you say they are: Dumb, weak, pathetic, and unable to make a choice.”

“The problem with our country is that the people with power believe that’s exactly who you are, and you are allowing them to do it by taking the easy way. By taking and believing in choice structure. By not demanding that choice structure stops. They’re not demanding that we have a right. Instead we demand that somebody takes care of us. Somebody gives us healthcare. Well, if you’re going to pay ‑‑ if you’re going to make somebody else pay for your bad choices and your bad living, well, then there’s only one ‑‑ there’s only one way to do it. We have to stop you from making bad choices because I have to pay for your heart attack. You want to pay for your heart attack? Great. But why should I have to pay for your heart attack? Everybody will say when California slides off the cliff, the financial cliff, ‘Why should I have to pay for Californians? That was their choice.’ And if we all have to pay for California, then I guess we all have to ‑‑ we all have to be involved in California’s decisions. No, let California make their own decisions. They’re different people; they want to live a different way. Let them. If they fail, they fail. They’ll learn… unless we all gather together and bail them out. Then they won’t learn and eventually we’ll all burn down… together.”

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    Our nation was founded on the freedoms of a restricted government in which the individual was placed first ahead of the masses in the guarantee of rights, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    The progressives see people as nothing more than sheep who wander around, unwashed, uneducated, unresponsive and in desperate need of the guidance from an ‘enlightened elite’ who know what is best for everyone.

    That system of governance goes by many names:

    Tyranny
    Despotism
    Dictatorship
    Communism

    This is what the progressives, and especially Obama want to have happen in America. If we do not turn matters around the nation is finished, the Republic will die and mankind will slip into an age of darkness and violence unheralded since the first person walked the earth.

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    Here it is in a nutshell people – the progressives seek ultimate power over the people of America which results in the ultimate of corruption being imposed upon us. This will herald in an age of oppression and violence and war you cannot imagine.

  • Soulphoenix

    CassPo, like his confederates, wraps his arguments in the flag of “equality” while building his foundation on the presumption that some people are smart (supposedly he and his ilk), and the vast majority are stupid and therefore need to be “cared for” by the smart people.

    At the end of the day, it’s really about POWER. Period.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GW6ALM3N2YFTOT6TN3GZGAHQG4 Frank Balcer

    Cass needs to be locked up & made to live under his own rules, along with a lot of other people.

  • Draxx

    Sunstein wants to give us what Stalin gave the Soviet Union…

    Including Millions of Dead Citizens Killed Via Fabricated Crimes!  The Policy of Do
    What I Say Or Die Being Righteous!

  • http://youtu.be/R7MC2wu49Cw Sam Fisher

    My religion is not Obamaunism my church is not government and Obama is not my god. Cass Sunstein and his bosses are fascist this is pure fascism and the left could care less only the few of them do. This book is about taking freedom away from people because idiots like Cass Sunstein think we need daddy government as a god on our back telling us how to live what to think and how to act. People that voted Obama voted for Cass Sunstein which is a vote for fascism where is Jon Stewart when real fascist have power. Sunstein makes Mahmoud Ahmadinejad look like a saint and it is sad that Obama hired him. How can you justify this left? How can you say Bush was a fascist but not Cass Sunstein who wants to micro mange every ones lives? I am not a big fan of Bush but I rather have him as king than Cass Sunstein anywhere near power in our government.

  • Draxx

    If the Gov’t Officials really wanted to let Me and My Family to have a Good Life, they would Completely Get Out Of My Personal Life (and Business as long as I am not doing harmful things)…

  • Draxx

    Sunstein was not Voted In His Office, He was Appointed By Obummer when the POTUS started the Regulatory Czar Position via Executive Order…!

  • http://youtu.be/R7MC2wu49Cw Sam Fisher

    That is why I said you if voted for Obama you voted for this moron. I really doubt Mitt would have let him anywhere near the White House if he won.

  • Draxx

    Yep, this position needs to be dissolved and any regulations that he confirmed/wrote should be Permanently Removed from the books… Because they are Anti-American Policies!

  • Anonymous

    Sunstein, one of the 5 most dangerous people in America !

  • Anonymous

    Sunstein is a fem.  A flaming sissified fem.  

  • Anonymous

    We are living in a matrix. The system tells us what to believe and what to think. We are slaves to this system because we are being brainwashed that it is for our own good.

  • Anonymous

    The late William F. Buckley once said that he would rather be governed
    by the first fifty names in the Cambridge (MA) telephone book than the entire
    faculty of Harvard University.  Sunstein is one of these buffoons that
    presume to tell other people how to lead their lives.  He just doesn’t
    realize what a buffoon he is because he is so dominated by his own hubris.
     As a rule, “intellectuals” haven’t fared so well, particularly
    in the 20th century. It was, ultimately, “intellectuals” who devised
    the grand schemes (communism and fascism) that led to the death of over 100
    million people during the 20th century.  Lenin was an
    “intellectual” as was Marx and all the professors in Europe and the
    United States that were drawn to communism and socialism and fascism in the
    early part of the 20th century.  They saw themselves on the cutting edge
    of societal development.  They would have to break a few eggs before
    creating the omelet, but who’s counting when they have a utopia to build. The
    problem with intellectuals is that they don’t know how much they don’t know and
    presume to govern others, and limit their freedom, on the basis of severely
    limited information.  Look what’s happened to Obamacare, which is turning
    out to be a gigantic miscalculation that only an air-headed “liberal”
    could have embraced in the first place.  Sunstein, the airheaded law
    professor, writes a lot, but doesn’t say much of value to freedom-loving
    Americans.  Why do you think Obama appointed him regulatory czar?
     Because he shares Obama’s megalomaniacal aims to bring all of American
    society under the blanket of federal control by executive fiat.

  • Anonymous

    You are so on target! Intellectuals with the emotional stability of a roller coaster; with their highs and lows.

  • Anonymous

    Name the other three besides Osama(sic).

  • Anonymous

    It all depends how one interprets the whole thing. Sure, people make mistakes and get to see the right from wrong. It is still up to the individual to make choices. But to accuse governments of not learning from those mistakes is just a copout, just like Beck is doing. The government has turned responsibility into POWER over people and is now in rule for itself, the elite, just like communism. Beck, in turn, has turned his mistakes into POWER over all those who follow him as their “messiah”. Just read many of the comments here and you’ll find similarities to Obama’s mastery over the progressive cause. According to many here, Beck cannot make mistakes, he is right and he is the truth. Every time he demonizes somebody, many sheeple follow. Therein lies the problem, that the government has become a POWER over people serving only their own pockets. How does anyone think that Beck has made the millions? The same way that the government benchwarmers in Washington.

  • bumpkin

    Substitute the word”government” for the word “society”

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/R3RXPTFPX4TYVBYHHYXN4IAS7U Lorraine

    There’s an old saying: When someone says, “it’s for your own good”, that’s when it’s time to run.

  • Anonymous

    Just let me know when the shooting war is going to start between the progressive who have no compunction about killing individuals for the greater good and the rest of us individuals.  I for one aim to shoot back!!

  • Anonymous

    Mr. Sustein is the modern day Goebbels, the only difference is this modern day Goebbels is much more dangerous, if you think my thinking if flawed, Please educate your self about the Goebbels of the 30′s, (his writings & speeches), next read Cass Sustein &  how this crepe thinks. 

  • Anonymous

    Why are you talking about Beck on this thread?  If you hate him so much, stop coming here, PLEASE.  Weigh in on Sunstein, join the conversation.  Focus!

  • http://suzeraining.wordpress.com/ suz

    a few years ago we (seattle) had to send some of our energy to california because they were flooding their power grid.  to add insult to injury we were never informed of it until many months later and some one spoke up.  californians did not pay for it but we (taxpayers) did, and we were never fully reimbursed.

  • Anonymous

    Speaking of Lenin, you may already know this, but the first ever Communist leader committed the original and most strikingly hypocritical acts in modern history.  The Tsar, Nicholas the 2nd, who ruled prior to the Bolsheviks, exiled Lenin for making scathing remarks about the Tsarist system.  He was exiled (not imprisoned) by Nicholas 2 and had access to a great amount of literature.  It was during this time that Lenin studied Marx and Engels deeply and was able to formulate his ideas for future Communist rule.  When he finally came to power in 1917 he had Nicholas 2 executed and what did he do with his dissenters?  He created the initial foundations of the Gulag.  Lenin didn’t allow political prisoners access to ANY literature and justified slaughter for the greater good. In fact on Christmas day of 1919 he decreed that any Christians that took the day off to celebrate the holiday should be shot, yes SHOT!  This is a matter of historical record.  The point here is, Lenin spoke exactly as Sunstein now speaks.  He purports that anyone who disagrees with him isn’t as intelligent as him.  We are in deep shit Americans.
    By the way liberals, we’re all in this for better or worse, look what you’ve created!

  • Anonymous

    There is only one source of Truth and his name is NOT Cass Sunstein.

    We are trying to help you == We are trying to enable you to kill yourself and others.

    It’s about death, not help.  The actions give them away no matter what they say:

    Help == Abortion
    Help == Euthanasia
    Help == Contraception
    Help == Theft
    Help == Homosexual marriage
    Help == Fornication

    All of that “help” can lead to physical and spiritual death.

  • Anonymous

    Glenn seems like the kind of guy that likes to feel a stranger’s fist inside his butt every time he goes into a men’s room stall

  • http://youtu.be/R7MC2wu49Cw Sam Fisher

    All the Czars need to be kicked out on their ass.

  • http://www.facebook.com/william.vining.3 William Vining

    Another one of Beck’s inconsequtal bogey men.

  • http://www.facebook.com/william.vining.3 William Vining

    Last I checked he’s not like, an elected official, where exactly is he to get this power?

  • bobjr4freedom

    This I agree with you Glenn.

  • Anonymous

    I doubt there are many on this website, you have nothing to fear when it comes to intellect.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4HAW7OERGSC7VZM72V7IGDJ3B4 Sharmane

     Off your meds again white?  All your posts are inane and and it appears you are talking from your own experience.  Just saying.

  • Anonymous

    Hey, I doubt if any of you fucking idiots know this, but Sunstein left government service in August of 2012, he’s a fucking teacher now, you moron.  This is why you people can’t win elections, you waste your time on stupid shit.

  • Anonymous

    Hey, I doubt if any of you fucking idiots know this, but Sunstein left government service in August of 2012, he’s a fucking teacher now, you moron.  This is why you people can’t win elections, you waste your time on stupid shit.

  • Draxx

    Obummer, Obummer, Obummer!!!  Via Executive Order, the Czar System was Not Voted Into Action By Congress (except they did give the Czars more Power with the ObamaCare Bill)…

    He is Obummer’s Joseph Georbals (just wait and see if we do not act soon he will show his worst side when he has no more fear of retribution for those he is making (illegal regulations) into Law Breakers.  Since he took office of the Regulatory Czar, America now has Over 40,000 Laws & Regulations.  Almost everyone is guilty of breaking one of these laws, mostly out of ignorance since we do not even know what they are anymore!

  • http://twitter.com/fawnday Dawn Brayton

    It sounds like Mr. Sunstien is talking about choices. That while governments make laws and rules for everyone to folow it’s up to people to decide if they want to do something that’ll lead them to a consequence choice either good or bad. Yeah, that means living for the present moment but also making sure the person has whatever information they need to make an informed choice. Not trusting to fate or letting the government bail them out unless those are two of the choices. People can learn from government bailouts, they figure out why it happened and then hopefully do something different the next time so the bailout won’t happen again. You learned from your alcoholism not to do it again because you were tired of the consequences.

  • Draxx

    Kree-Tin, No You Are Wrong!!!  We are “Communicating”, You Are Wasting Our Time and Oxygen, MORON.

  • Draxx

    Bad Analogy…

    Once an Alcoholic, Always an Alcoholic (Most don’t go to rehab until they have Destroyed Their Lives!  Are we supposed to wait until they destroy our lives to learn their lesson of what is right or wrong for governments to do…?  I don’t think so!)

  • Anonymous

    KoolAide drinker.  Probably a Commie to boot.  Oh wait! I’m being redundant.

  • Bonnie Somer

    WE THE PEOPLE OWN THE GOVERNMENT REMEMBER THAT THEY DO NOT OWN US.  WE MUST NEVER ALLOW THIS NATION TO DIE LIKE OBAMA WANTS IF WE DO NOTHING ITS OUR FAULT DON’T BLAME ME I AM A FREE PERSON UNDER GOD AND THAT I WILL B WE MUST LET THE GOVT KNOW WE ARE THE BOSS OF THEM NOT THEM OF US STAND UP FOR URSELF DO NOT LET THEM TAKE UR MOTIVATION WEALTH PROPERTY OR RIGHTS AWAY THEY ARE YOURS NOT OBAMAS

  • Anonymous

    Do we really have to use vulgar, nasty words on here. GEE!

  • Anonymous

    They will try to dig up some major dirt on Glenn Beck soon.  You just watch.  Oh and John Boehner too, and Rush Limbaugh, and you, and me, if you are a conservative you are now a dissenter.

  • Anonymous

    What’s the last book you read?  How long has it been since you read it?
    I’m sure your response to me will speak for itself.

  • Anonymous

    No kidding, I’m a pretty peaceful individual, but I’m starting to get sick of being railroaded just for believing in God.  It’s quite irksome. 

  • Anonymous

    Well, we have a centralized system now.  No sense in disagreeing with Obama, that should land you in prison pretty soon.

  • Anonymous

    Van Jones, Hillary Clinton, Steven Chu…

  • Draxx

    Iruman, Kree-Tin is a self proclaimed Democratic Socialist that thinks everybody is ignorant and somehow he is an “Enlightened One” (his ignorance has no boundaries).  He gets all of his information from Left Wing Propagandist and believes everything they tell, he is a True to the Heart Obamanite…

  • Anonymous

    At least we took the lost PRESIDENTIAL election like adults and didn’t cry about it.  Al Gore had to whine about a recount.  Notice I emphasized presidential so you won’t bring up Allen West, who gave up on his recount complaint fairly quickly, because Republicans aren’t sore losers.  Who cares what Sunstein’s current job is?  It doesn’t change the fact that Obama constantly lets people like him into his administration.  

    Can you articulate WHY you feel that what Sunstein said in the above clip ISN’T disturbing?  Or are you only capable of insulting people based solely on the fact that they don’t agree with you?

  • Anonymous

     Critten, why in the world would it matter whether Cass Sunstein is in the private sector or the government? If you can’t even understand that it is his ideas and proposals that are being debated because of his influence on those who DO hold legislative power, you’re hopelessly incapable of understanding the most basic of political issues. Seriously, is this what you believe this article was about? You think that Glenn Beck was lying because he claimed that Cass Sunstein is a legislator? You possess an abject inability to reason and your uncontrollable penchant for foul mouthed, sub intelligent attacks make it obvious you are incapable of reading for content and understanding above the skill level of a 4th grader. Thank you for illustrating the vacuous idiocy of the progressive left. Here’s a challenge for you genius…I would bet that you can’t make a point with nothing but facts and reasoning and without swearing. You can’t do it, can you? And, oh my, where would you be if you couldn’t swear at your opponent? It would be a battle of wits with an unarmed adversary. Go ahead…proceed…let’s hear it.

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    Critten – once again you demonstrate the insanity of the left. YOU assume that I assume Cass Sunstein is still in office somewhere in government. Only a die-hard fanatical ideologically-blinded person such as you comments on a post before reading the post…

    Or are we talking to Nancy Pelosi under an assumed name? Try coming up with some more original insults, the British on the UK Telegraph often do a lot better than you.

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    Critten is ideologically welded to the progressives, he hates the truth to get out and thus becomes ever more unstable like Obama.

  • landofaahs

    Sunstein,Sunstein, Sunstein…Rohm Emanuel…Bloomberg,Bloomberg, Bloomberg.  What is it with Jewish people who are trying to tell all the rest of us how to live?  I mean, is this a part of some Jewish law they are forcing on us?  What is their problem with the people of America who have been so good to the world in the past?  Please, if you are Jewish, can you explain why these jews want to enslave good people? 
    I can’t understand why Jews would want to disarm American People since they know the destructive effects of it.  Is it that they blame Americans of the 30′s and 40′s for not doing enough to help the Jews of Nazi Germany and that they want to get even or something?  I’m just wondering.  I’m open to anyone who can shine some light on these Anti-freedom Jews we have here.
    I cannot understand why Jews would want to hurt me or my family by stealing our Constitutional freedoms, that they would do nsuch things.  Are liberal Jews really that filled with Hate? I’m miffed as heck.

  • Anonymous

    Don’t worry about the progressives; they’re cowards. It’s their zombie counterparts that are cause for concern. You know, The steeple that voted for the guy who put Sunstein in place. The ones that will move “forward” for a dollar, those folks.

  • Anonymous

    You’re on here aren’t you….or is it your double?

  • Anonymous

    Actually the list goes on and on……too many to list.

  • Anonymous

    Yeah…just like Van Jones. Hence the term “shadow government” or is it puppet?

  • Anonymous

    Limited vocabulary will always bring out the best on the left.

  • Anonymous

    Snowleopard ….. didn’t think of that! Hi Nancy, does it hurt to smile?

  • Anonymous

    William, the more you post, the more I realize the less you seem to know! Can you be more naive or is it something else? I wonder.

  • http://www.facebook.com/paul.redman.940 Paul Redman

    Is mankind capable of ruling himself? 

    Without God, I doubt it. 

    With God…absolutely. 

    Hence the phrase, if “Men were Angels we wouldn’t need Government.”

    Government is a necessary evil, because Man is fundamentally flawed. I.E.: contrary to the beliefs of Cass…utopia is not possible. Man can’t be “nudged” into “correct” action(s). 

    This is why Communism and Socialism fail. They attempt to control human behavior. And when behavior controls cease to be effective, force is applied. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/paul.redman.940 Paul Redman

    and Nazi doctor Josef Mengele finished his career as an abortionist in South America…..so?!?!?!?!?!?

    That doesn’t absolve him from his horrific ideas and experiments performed on people while in Auschwitz under orders from the Furher and Third Reich, you baffoon. 

    Cass Sunstein is the ‘Chinese Water Torture’ of philosophy. Little drips, and drops, over time, to erode the most erudite of ideas- Man ruling himself. 

    Teacher, hunh? I’m sure that’s nothing to worry about. Cass poisoning young minds. Given your “excellent” use of the English language, you might want to consider giving school a go yourself some time. 

  • http://twitter.com/JewishOdysseus JewishOdysseus

    I almost cdn’t believe this story as Glenn described the Sunstein article…It sounded like an absurd parody, but NO!  This story needs to be spread as far and wide as possible.

  • http://twitter.com/JewishOdysseus JewishOdysseus

    Does Dr. Sunstein not understand that when individuals make mistakes, their mistakes impact themselves, their friends, & family…But when centralized govts make mistakes, they impact MILLIONS OF PEOPLE?!  Of COURSE Sunstein understands this, he’s just a filthy power-grasping maniac who’d have been happier as a GULAG officer ordering entire villages into the Siberian salt mines.  Too bad us stupid Americans have too many private guns to enable him, Ayers & Obama to implement their wicked plan.

  • lauray

    critten,you are a complete (( IDIOT ))

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_X2NAPSXIXUJPOPPGU6CXVFQFLA Snorri Sturluson

    The people like Sunstein can not mind their own business because they wish to avoid to the taxation and social costs of having to take care of those people who made / make bad personal choices. Telling and directing all of those with lower intellects, insight and emotional control is simply the way things should be for Sunstein and peers.  Sweden is a case in point; some people would rather commit suicide rather than endure the sameness of benevolent serfdom. The alternative can be a reaction like the Nazis which is neither benevolent nor civilized. Sunstein and peers should look over their shoulders at the very people who they are intending to lead into a “Garden of Eden”.

  • Anonymous
  • cds99x

    Cass Sunstein– another worthless law professor, the country is full of them.

  • Anonymous

    can anyone define “freedom” for me?

  • Draxx

    If you have to ask then you will neither know when it is available or taken away from You!!!

  • Anonymous

    Be that as it may, it would be interesting to have a dialogue about what we mean by “freedom” and “liberty,” two words that get thrown around a lot but that seem to mean many different things to many different people. Any thoughts?

  • Draxx

    Well then here is the definitions as I understand them without looking up in any resource (this way it is a true definition that is exercised by daily living/culture of mine)…

    Freedom – Lack of Restrictions for People as it pertains to Daily Living (i.e.; the ability to use their land for farming, forestry, ranches, hunting, camp grounds, houses (own/rentals), ability to build houses/barns/shops, and to do all of those things without Gov’t Intervention, Permits and/or Licenses.  Some State/Local Taxes of reasonable cost to the owner are acceptable.)

    Liberty – Freedom to Pursue Happiness without undue Laws/Regulations, also to include Religion, Career Choice, Choice of Doctor/Nurse/Health Care, Group Affiliations (no crime by association unless the organization commits crimes and you are involved), the ability to Discipline Your Children in civil manner (a spanking is fine as long as it isn’t a beating).

    Both of them include the Government Not Making Any Unnecessary Laws That Common Sense & Decency Could Easily Dictate.  (i.e.; Forced Seat Belt & Helmet Laws are something the Individual can take as a personal risk without gov’t intervention.).  Especially if the Sole Purpose of Those Laws Is To Generate Revenue & Criminalize Citizens to further an Agenda That Is Not Specifically Called For By The MAJORITY of Citizens As Necessary for the Survival of the Citizens and/or Country.

  • Anonymous

    Draxx, I think those are valid points. But I think it’s pretty simplistic. You were specific and said a lot without really saying much. In your rendering, “freedom” and “liberty” are still pretty vague terms, indeed quite utopian. 

    For example, you assume reasonable people can agree on what is “common sense,” and what is “decent,” what “happiness” means, what “undue regulations” are, yet we know well meaning people (loaded term too) disagree all of the time over any number of issues. 

    Land: Most people do not own land. They rent from other people. We could even say that even those that do “own” their own land do not really own it until it’s paid off. Even before the American Revolution much of the available land was already owned by a small handful of people. As the country’s boundaries spread westward, much of the best land was given to the railroads. In southern Cali at the turn of the 20th century most of the land was owned and controlled by a small percentage of the people–a function of the old land-owning system inherited from Mexico after our war with Mexico and of the emergent agribusiness that took hold in the first decades of the 20th century. Jefferson’s yeoman ideal never existed. Especially if you were not white and not a man.

    Most people in this country go to work for wages. They sell their labor. Capitalism only works if you have freedom of contract and if those contracts can be enforced, among other things. Enforcing contracts requires laws and therefore lawmakers as well as institutional frameworks for enforcing those laws–courts, etc. A military or police force is also necessary for both domestic and international security. Trade and commerce. Who governs trade laws between states? Between countries? Who handles the redress of grievances?

    You mentioned building codes and such. And again, you make a good point about being left alone on your own property, but that idea falls apart when you consider the messy and complicated details of human interaction and market exchange. Maybe you do, but most people do not exist independently of each other. Should you be able to pollute a river on your property that people down the road use for drinking water? What if that river travels through a bunch of states? Countries? Should you be able to burn harmful chemicals on your property that seep into the aquifer or into the atmosphere poisoning and sickening others? If you own a house in a subdivision, should you be able to do anything you want to it to the point that it negatively affects your neighbor’s property value? Is that your right? Is that freedom? If you’re super rich, should you be able to buy as much land as you want? 

    In another post from another story, you mentioned how we’ve lost our culture of “honor, integrity, and truth.” I ask not when did we lose it but when did we ever have it? When we annihilated the natives who roamed the land before white people? When we enslaved millions of people? When we segregated people by race and ethnicity? When we carpet bombed Dresden or dropped the atomic bombs on Japan? How do freedom and liberty work into those narratives? Freedom for whom? 

    And to end this long rant: Freedom of occupation? The sociological data shows that in today’s U.S. most people barely move beyond the socio-economic condition of their birth. Born poor, you’re most likely going to stay poor. And it works the same for each class level. Sure, we have the rags-to-riches stories but those are not the norm. We take anecdotal evidence as representative of larger truths and that’s just not the case. (I can give you plenty of examples of people who won the lottery–people win all the time–but that doesn’t change the fact that you still have a one and a gazillion shot at winning.)

    I hope I wasn’t disrespectful or rude. I too oversimplified much of what I wrote. Things are complicated. But we have to think about these things. An ideal world, like the one GB thinks he’s going to build, is as utopian as soviet communism. There has never been a “free market.” And when it was at it’s “freest” (if you can call it that) it rested on the unpaid labor of millions of slaves. 

  • Anonymous

    HayMrkt, gee, it’s too bad that we are all evil, life is pointless and we’re all going to die, isn’t it?

    Your analysis of land use is WAY off the mark. There is no comparison between the feudal system you describe and land ownership in the US today. Even when there were only a few land owners, it was because the land was first acquired by a nation state, then ownership transferred to a few to begin the process of building, then, eventually developing over centuries to what it is today. There is no large conglomerate that owns land today, excepting the state and federal governments, which practice is allowed under the constitution. Interstate and foreign commerce is regulated by the federal government through the authority of Article I, Section 8 of the constitution. Additionally, so far as land use, Draxx can answer for himself what he meant by that, but I seriously doubt that he was stating that he has the right to poison his neighbors.

    You frighten me, HayMrkt, when you ask, “If you’re super rich, should you be able to buy as much land as you want?” What, exactly, is super rich? Who gets to decide when someone else has enough? You? A committee? What if someone decides that YOU don’t get to participate in free enterprise because you make more money than they do? Even the super rich have to PURCHASE the land. They are paying market value for land and if someone doesn’t want to sell it, they don’t have to, except when the land is needed by federal and state governments for highway projects, government installations, etc. And they still have to pay fair market value for the land and have the right to dispute the government’s position in court. Or is it your belief that only the poor and lower middle class should be allowed to own land?

    Capitalism does not fail when there is not a formal, negotiated contract. There is an implied, functional contract between an employer and anyone who “sells” their labor. Or are you intimating that capitalism was designed to only function between individuals selling trinkets? How exactly does business function without employees that are paid an agreed upon price for the commodity of labor? I am completely confused by the rest of that paragraph as it sounded like an economic lesson for 3rd graders. Was it your understanding of what Draxx said that he was advocating anarchy or didn’t understand that the constitution provides for the establishment of courts and the making of laws?

    I find it ridiculous that you claim that our nation has never had a scrap of honor or that we historically believed in honor. Honesty, integrity, sacrifice, altruism, loyalty, kindness…none of these have ever existed in the United States according to you. Instead, we “annihilated the natives who roamed the land before the white people, we enslaved millions and segregated people by race and ethnicity. Apparently, you believe that not only were those things supported by everyone, but that all benefited from the enslavement and encroachment on native peoples, etc. Why are these things not occurring today in our nation? Those things ARE happening in Asia, eastern Europe, Africa, the middle east and other regions of the world, but not here. Yes, the original constitution preserved slavery, but the founding fathers who hated the idea also insisted on the ability to amend the constitution, mainly because of their foresight that if the document was not able to be changed, that these practices could never be completely removed without the complete dissolution of the Union or the scrapping of the founding document. I suppose that all of those who died defending the Union during the Civil War were also supporters of the continuation of slavery by the South, according to you. I suppose that all of those who continued that struggle into the 21st century were also evil and that the civil rights movement never occurred. Of course, we’re all evil in this country, right, so there must be a conspiracy even in these movements, correct?
    I don’t have a clue where you have obtained your information, although I recognize the same tripe that was peddled to me in public school, college, professional school and graduate school. You claim that all sociological data proves that most people barely move beyond the sociological condition of their birth. Really? It’s a RARITY to have someone become successful if they weren’t born into economic prosperity? I’m so happy that you seem to be able to predict the future for all of those pathetic children who would have been so much better off in your opinion, had they never been born into the horror that is life in the United States today. The fact of the matter is that most of those studies are not scientific and are highly influenced by the bias of the researchers asking the questions. The truth of the matter is that success is and always has been in this nation a matter of will, work ethic and utilization of talent. There is no great conspiracy to keep the poor right where they started. I came from poverty far below the norm, yet I used this very formula to rise to success and I am by no means rare in the consideration of those who use choose to use their own will, work ethic and talent to better themselves and their families. Those who choose to do this are always in the minority, whether historically or currently, because the combination of those three character traits is not often utilized because of the determination and work involved. And frankly, not everyone is equal. Not everyone has the ability to become a surgeon or a successful businessman or woman or other highly lucrative careers. But ANYONE can improve their lot in life in this nation. If not, then why in the world would millions of people from all over the world sacrifice everything to come here? If they have been told a big lie, then they would not only go home, they would inform others of the lie. But that’s not what happens. They come willingly and by the millions, risking deportation and imprisonment in order to come here. Many return over and over again, even after being repeatedly deported. The fact that many do not act to improve themselves IS reflective of the growing sense of entitlement in this country. You can claim that we don’t do enough to help the poor, but you would be a fool to do so.

    We are bankrupting our nation in order to nanny people from birth to death. This has resulted in exactly what we all understand intellectually occurs when we feed wild animals and they become dependent upon humans to provide their food. In the wild, this results in two things 1) pathological dependency that incapacitates and 2) dangerous and aggressive interactions that occur when the “gravy train” is shut down. The most liberal of environmentalists understands why this is harmful, yet they would also be the first to claim that we are not doing enough for the people of this nation. Think we are different from wild animals? Then why are more people not choosing to improve their lot in life? The opportunity is right there in front of them. They may not succeed, but that is not the fault of a conspiracy of white men, it is a result of the character traits I mentioned above. The fact that there is no guarantee of success does not mean that the system is evil. The fact that the welfare roles grow and swell reflects the results of societal nannying. Where there is no opposition and struggle against that opposition, there is no progress and there is no appreciation of the benefits of self determination.

    Your claims are not only oversimplified, they are trite. You may have been “nice” about how you said it, but if things are as terrible as you claim, then you should have the integrity to go somewhere where nothing bad has ever happened, people have never been racists, government historically made decisions out of knowledge, integrity, honor and near god-like omnificence. Good luck with that. As depressed and mired in futility as your post illustrates you to be, if you can’t find perfect, then maybe you should seek out the place that offers the highest possibility of achieving what you so blithely dismiss as nonexistent. You do not live in a nation established in perfection, but neither do you live in a nation of hypocrisy, dishonor, hatred, racism and devoid of so many other positive things you not only do not value, you don’t believe ever existed or now exists. You only wish to see the dishonorable and hypocritical. Fine. You go with embracing the philosophy of futility and reap the rewards of that philosophy. I’ll do what I’ve done my entire life-I choose to use my talents and work ethic to honorably do my best and improve the world around me. I know my way works. If I actually believed what you seem to, I’m not certain that I wouldn’t commit suicide.

  • Anonymous

    I was always told    (beware of laws passed for your own good)

  • Anonymous

    There is something very very wrong  where our obama king dictator with his God complex is taking our country ?????  We are individual humans and should be treated as such ,but obama talk for the good of the collective or hive reducing us to a expendable zombie insect level of existence !!!!  In the wild higher species like wolfs & Lions they take care of their old not with obama take a pain pill and go die !!!!!!!!!!! But for obama and his family,his friends he place in government, Congress ,high ranking people in progressive movement be like royal  elite dictator families with free and access better health benefit and won’t be subject to death panel !!!  Hey obama people from 20 to 40 get full health coverage ,Why don’t you and your family and your freaking minions in congress etc and left wing news media live by these standards and set example by taking the lead in your death panels maybe the country be rid of you early before you do anymore damage !!!!!!!!!!!!  All obama is doing by stealthy setting up a elite dictator royal family and his cronies ,but not labeling it as such !!!  We have the right to the pursuit of happiness ,part of this is to live healthy and longer ,but obama want to take this away By starting with our good health insurances we earn from our unions and company,or what by we can afford privately ,by starting to have hospitals bann from treating anyone over 50 is the first step, and by leaving with only one insurance plan the government obama zombie care with death panels if your not in obama royal family or don’t have high connections to the progressive party !!  

  • Anonymous

    As for the third grade economics lesson, I was simply contending that markets, especially the real estate market in the post-WWII era, do not exist independently of, and are even created by and through, state power. Do the research, read the history,slkgej6, it’s all there in books, as long as you’re not afraid to read peer-reviwed work by phds who’ve spent their lives  studying the subject. If you don’t want to look at the legacy of the Latifundistas in SoCal, try the post-Depression, postwar history of how the federal govt took over and revolutionized the modern real estate market, from lending policies, to the codification of appraisal methods, to the socialization of middle-class homeownership (see the history of the now defunct HOLC, or the FHA and VA loans). The fed government, the real estate industry, and developers, all working together, have created and delimited the bounds of the “market.”

    “Fair market value”? See postwar Florida. In fact, see all of twentieth century Florida. From massive land giveaways to the surreptitious way Disney snagged most of Central Florida. 

    Capitalism was not “created.” It has developed slowly over time. It has never been one particular way and never will be. It is not any more natural than any other historical modes of living. As for contracts, today most people sign a contract when they work for a particular business. And those contracts are embedded within preexisting structres, particularly legal structures–tax laws, labor laws, contract law, etc. Markets, whether labor or real estate or whatever, do no exist without organized forms of power. Today we have the nation state, which will probably (possibly) give way to private corporate states. Think Disney World writ large. But who knows, we’ll probably be dead before any like that happens. 

    As for land use: I was exaggerating to prove a point. My point was that “freedoms” often conflict. When your freedom to do as you please curtails my freedom to do as I please, the state writes laws that more than likely limit both of our freedoms. While you might scoff at the simplicity, it’s a fundamental and philosophical issue we have to keep in mind when we consider what “freedom” and “liberty” mean. Connecting to this to real estate–anyone who lives in deed restricted communities knows what I am talking about. 

    Honor and integrity. If I did, I did not mean to suggest our society as never had honorable people or done honorable things. But I think we need to be critical and recognize that we as a country have blood on our hands. And mind you, no other country at its inception has set forth such lofty ideals in its constitution (an admirable thing, yes), so while we should be proud we should recognize how badly we have gone astray at times in the past and how the past still haunts us today. I am not even going to get into the racial argument. If you can’t admit that the legacies of slavery, Jim Crow segregation in the South, defacto residential segregation in the North (remember racial covenants?), electoral disfranchisement, profoundly affect contemporary American society and culture, then   you just having been paying attention. Much the same can be said about discrimination against women. As for the sociological data on upward mobility. It’s all there. Look it up. Read a book. More than one. Just because you “think” or “feel” things are a particular way, doesn’t mean they are. Congratulations on your success. But you aren’t representative. I don’t care if you can cite other examples. They are not representative. Simply saying that studies are biased and the data is wrong or misleading is not an argument. Income inequality is higher than it has ever been since the Great Depression. We can debate why that is all night long, but it doesn’t change the facts.

    Yes people do come here for opportunities and they succeed. But emigration is on the wane. And besides, the most successful immigrant groups and their descendants were those who came before the quota system ended in 1965. Since then migration streams have largely come from Mexico and Latin America and, yes, parts of Asia. Most of the emigres came alone, work as low-paid fruit and veggie pickers, domestics, janitors, or in the chicken processing plants spread across the South. And most of those people have not just been “pulled” here by economic factors. They have been “pushed” by wars in their own country (El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua) that the U.S. helped fund. We have a bad record of financially and militarily supporting dictatorial, often “puppet” regimes, whether in Vietnam, Venezuela, Guat, Nicaragua, El Salvador, etc. The reasons many people flee here is because our neoliberal and imperialist policies have created the conditions in their countries that force them to flee for better opportunities. 

    Your equation of poor people on fed aid with zoo animals is pathetic. 

    Fed aid doesn’t just come in the form of money for poor people. What about the invasion of a country and then the granting of no-bid contracts to corporate entities like Halliburton to rebuild those countries. That’s fed aide…AND WE PAY FOR IT. Tax exemptions for oil companies? fed aid. 

    This whole “poor people” are bankrupting the country is just silly. Poor people didn’t crash the economy. Sure, many were given loans that could never repay. But that was because the buyers and sellers and investors of mortgage backed securities were making tons of money and they didn’t want the gravy train to stop. And the risk was so spread out and insured that making a bad loan for short term profit wasn’t discouraged. And yes, the fed govt played a huge role in all of this and should be criticized. But not poor people. Why don’t we pull out of our wars, deconstruct many or most or all of our hundreds of military installations throughout the world, end stupid and unnecessary tax deductions like the homeowner deduction, and see where we are. It probably won’t enough. We don’t have good jobs. That’s really the ultimate problem. Where are they going to come from? Enough of them to put the masses to work? Working at Wal-Mart (our biggest employer) will not do it. Don’t blame the unions or the environmentalists either. Blame globalization and all that it entails.

  • Fuchs XXXX

    This is public serfdom to the wallstreet finance jew.

  • Anonymous

    Your understanding of these issues is superficial at best. The point is that you seem to revel in all that is negative and bad about America. Fine. But don’t try to imply that anyone who disagrees with you is a sexist or a racist. Nobody said bad things have never happened because of race or any other category, but like all those who can’t reason well, that’s the first thing you jump to. Here’s a little clue for you-you are not the defender of the races and women, no matter your daydreams. Call me whatever you like, Sad Sack. I’ll still say the truth and you can still call names, but as you pointed out, you saying it’s true doesn’t make it true. Funny thing how liberals never seem to understand that statement applies to them.

    And please, don’t try to put yourself out there as an intellectual by referring to peer reviewed work. I DO have a PhD and I actually DO understand what it takes to obtain one-in science, NOT social studies. I HAVE read many social studies. The claims and data are all dependent on the viewpoint of the author, as it is impossible to apply scientific principles to political events in history. This is why I don’t care that someone has a PhD in whatever social “science” you can name. Anyone in that world who is honest would be the first to tell you that there is little of science behind any of it. They pose interesting questions and make interesting arguments that should spark honest debate (if it weren’t for the fools claiming everyone who doesn’t agree with them is a racist/sexist/homophobe,etc), but very little of what they claim is reflective of an opinion that did not exist at the beginning of the study. In this, there is a large difference between social sciences and true sciences in the biological and physical realms. There are few preexisting opinions in those fields that have to do with opinion shored up by cherry picked incidences and like minded scholars.
    I always love when liberals claim that people flee to this country because we created the bad people in their countries that forced them to come here. Have you ever actually spoken to some of those immigrants? Do you think for one second that THEY blame the US? Most of them would completely disagree with you. And before you go shooting off your mouth through your keyboard, I DO work with patients that are from those countries. I have lived in South America. Your parroting this ridiculous claim shows how truly shallow your understanding is. Or are you, like many liberals I have interacted with, going to claim that those poor people don’t even know what the US did in their countries. That’s okay…they didn’t think that was paternalistic either, so you’re in good company. You’re liberal, therefore, you CAN’T be racist.
    Social programs for the poor aren’t bankrupting our country and that claim is just silly? Really? Most of every tax dollar is going directly to social programs. We are now going nearly 1.6 trillion dollars into debt past our already ridiculous budget every year, yet we aren’t bankrupting ourselves and we just need to take more from the “rich”? I know, that means anyone who makes one dollar more than you do. I’ve never actually heard a liberal commit to any dollar amount more that they are willing to cede to the government to then redistribute to the poor. Turns out that even you morons believe that you can do a better job of deciding where your charitable giving should go, but that theory never applies to anyone else. And, since you seem to know so much about where all our tax dollars are going, you top all of this tirade off with that same, tired old straw man you see in the military. Why don’t we just do away with the military altogether? If we would just get rid of the military, then nobody would want to attack us or do bad things to the US, right? Your comprehension of how the world works and the US economic system is so shallow it’s pathetic. Forget about the argument of whether the military is necessary. Just look at the economics. You could take every single dollar from the military and add every scrap of income from those who make more than $250,000 per year and you STILL couldn’t come close to paying off the social programs that are completely bankrupting us.
    So where does that leave you? You’re still little more than negativity with a mouth and an ability to type. Please, apply these principles to your own life, but you can’t stop there. You just can’t-you’re liberal. That means that everything you think should be codified into punitive law against anyone who doesn’t agree. Good luck with that. I guess for someone who hates the US as much as you do, the worst thing is to have to live here knowing in your heart that evil always wins.