Glenn celebrates the life of a remarkable teenager who changed the world in 17 short years

The New England Patriots enjoyed an impressive victory over the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Divisional Playoff round on Saturday, but it wasn’t all celebration and jubilation. 17-year-old Massachusetts native Sam Berns passed away just before game time of complications from progeria – a rare genetic condition that accelerates the aging process. Sam, who was the subject of an HBO documentary last year, had been asked by New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft to be the team’s honorary captain for Saturday night’s playoff game.

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“This weekend was the weekend of celebrations. Hollywood, of course, celebrated itself with the Golden Globe awards… On the football front, fans from Seattle to San Francisco to Denver and clear across to New England were celebrating their team’s victories. The Patriots won at home,” Glenn said on radio this morning. “The game should have had one more in attendance. They were supposed to have an honorary captain for the game. His name was Sam Berns. I hope you know the name Sam Berns. He’s a 17-year-old high school junior from Foxboro… Sam was a huge fan of the Patriots, but Sam didn’t make it to the game. If you read TheBlaze last night, you found out that Sam died on Friday. Sam was a personal friend of one of the people that work here at Mercury, and he alerted me Friday.”

Sam was diagnosed with progeria at 22 months. His parents founded the nonprofit Progeria Research Foundation after encountering a lack of information and research on the fatal condition. Despite his condition, Sam’s outlook on life was infectious. And in both the HBO documentary, Life According to Sam, and various interviews, it became clear that porgeria would not define his life.

“Sam had a dream of playing the snare drums with his high school marching band. Problem is Sam only weighs about 50 pounds, and the harness weighed 40 pounds… It didn’t stop Sam. Sam went and found somebody that could design a lightweight harness that would allow him to live his dream. Instead of 40 pounds, it weighed 6 pounds,” Glenn explained. “And [Sam] was out on the field living his dream. During a radio interview, Sam was asked, ‘What’s the most important thing that people should know about you?’ Sam said, ‘That I have a happy life. I don’t want people to feel bad for me. I don’t want to waste energy feeling bad for myself.’”

Last night, Glenn and his family gathered around to watch the TEDTalks Sam gave late last year, in which he discussed his philosophy for a happy life:

“No matter what your problem is, no matter what you think you’re facing, here’s a kid who has more perspective than most adults I have ever met. He said he had a philosophy for a happy life,” Glenn said. “So the first step is: Be okay with what you ultimately can’t do because there’s so much you can do. Philosophy point number two: Surround yourself with people you want to be around, people of high quality. And tip number 3: Keep moving forward. The quote he used was from Disney. And he wrote: Around here we don’t look backward very long. We keep moving forward. Opening up new doors and doing new things.”

During the talk, Sam also explained that he hoped to go into the field of biology, and he made clear that no matter what the future held, he had one mission in life – to change the world. And he undoubtedly did.

“This weekend there was another celebration that took place. It was the celebration of the life of Sam Berns. A ton we can learn from Sam,” Glenn concluded. “So if you think you have problems today, if you think you can’t overcome, if you think that you won’t be able to achieve your dreams, think about Sam and have some perspective: The Golden Globe awards or Sam Berns. Thank you, Sam. Through you we know that we are all each other’s greatest teachers when we have something called perspective.”

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8FvmesaxXg Sam Fisher

    I never heard of Progeria but it sounds like this kid knows what he was talking about.

  • Mary

    awesome – gives me great tips.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you Glenn for airing this amazing story, maybe some of our nations youth can gain something from this remarkable young man, something tells me, that he will once again amaze each and every one of us…

  • Norman myers

    does any one know if sam was saved?

  • Kathy Panian

    With his outlook on life, he had to be!!! He was awesome!

  • Ambie

    Sorry to be so insensitive, but truthfully, I never heard of him or the disease before today. Too bad he missed the Pats game. He would have had a good time. But the Broncos are going to win the SB. (another insensitive comment) sorry

  • Fran

    Everyone is composed of body and spirit and Sam had a cripple body but a very BIG
    spirit. God bless you Sam.

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.wade.777 Randy Wade

    The butterfly effect – Sams philosophy and spirit has change others for the good and will continue to do so for many years. The butterfly effect.

  • Grampy

    That ultra-remarkable young man makes me feel ashamed of myself. He very definitely did change the world.

  • Anonymous

    Saved from what?

  • Anonymous

    Hmmm, certainly a remarkable young lad, but did he change the world? Or di he just change the few?

  • Fat Lip

    It was nice to listen to this young mans wisdom , ZEROGON sums it up very nicely
    Blessings to there family .

  • Tari Huffaker

    Glenn, Thank you so much for sharing this…I don’t get HBO…or any TV. I never would have seen this if it hadn’t been for you. Thank you!!! What an incredible young man…what great parents he must have.

  • Steve Cox

    Norman, that word is so misunderstood, This young man was closer to God with his desire and philosophy then the most religious ever get. BTW Christ offered salvation to all, the Highest of eternal opportunities we must walk the path and make the choices that lead to them, Sam was way ahead of most all of us.

  • Mike Hewitt

    Pure COURAGE !

  • Bee Bro

    Thanks Sam and Bless You….

  • Kelly Layne

    I am sure he was

  • Kelly Layne

    well changing a few means changing the world think about that for a minute if he changed a few peoples minds and hearts those who he changed will pass on the message so there for he has changed the world. Amen Sam and thank you God for bringing this young man into our world and hearts

  • Norman myers

    steve regardless how much we may admire sam if he did not put his faith in Jesus if Jesus was not his savior he would have died in his sins.Jesus is the only way to the father. just being a good person will not save you if you are not saved then you are lost. the command is simple repent and be baptized, believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. no other way to salvation but through Christ. if Mother Theresa did not have Christ as her savior she died in her sins as kind and loving a woman she appeared to be. a lot of so called nice people will be lost.

  • Norman myers

    from his sins

  • Shawn Spidahl

    What an amazing soul! Thank you Sam for sharing yourself with us!

  • Louis O Pupo

    Everything is relative. Sam’s lifespan was not much longer than a canine’s, Both Sam and our beloved short lived canines can affect us. Their short lives can be more meaningful than our longer meaningless lives. Quality is what counts, not quantity, since eventually we will. all join Sam. Sam will be remembered…so will Lassie and RinTinTin….. will you be rememnered?

  • Bob Compton

    Sam indeed must have had extraordinary parents to raise him with the glass-half-full mentality. Although his physical glass was always almost empty, his mental glass was overflowing! We all could learn from him. On your other point: No TV? How will you ever learn about the Jersey shores and other earth-shattering news, no MSNBC to tell you how awful Tea Partiers are, no seemingly daily teleprompter readings by the Great One? I commend you.

  • Jeanette Made N America

    The Angels among us!! God Bless him!

  • Anonymous

    AMEN STEVE,
    I cannot say for sure about this remarkable human being but I do know when I finnally stumble through that gate, Sam will be one very high on my list to search out! You see, I heard very well his advice to surround myself with high quality people. I am assuming he meant that advice to be useful in both this life and the next. I am of the opinion that Sam will be a very welcome high quality person to show me around in that next life.

  • Anonymous

    There’s nothing that ticks me off more than asinine comments coming from the likes of you and millions of others who do not understand what they are talking about. By your own words – you prove that you don’t have the first clue as to what the bible says – nor, who God is, or why we humans were placed here on the earth in the first place..and then, you have the audacity to write this crap.

    Sam will get his chance at salvation…and when he does, he’ll show the world how much of a hypocrite you and others like really are.

  • Norman myers

    zerrogon are you a Christian? Sorry to have ticked you off butt what was it that ticked you off? What is your understanding of salvation and why G-D came to earth as a man?tell why do you think we were placed on this earth?

  • Steve Cox

    Again Norman, If you can’t answer from your understanding why a person like Sam is not with God it would be best not to to make such declarative and definitive statements. I will give you a hint, you need to assume you still have some things to learn before you can start to understand.

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-pet/3.18-20?lang=eng#17
    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-pet/4.6?lang=eng#5

    What happens to the Billions of good people that never knew Christ or his gospel? Remember Christ died for them also. If it’s a mystery to you then admit you are still learning and don’t be so quick to judge the fate of others.

  • Bernadette Mcdaniel

    Thank you Glenn, for posting this story. Sam had and an amazing spirit.

  • Annie Savidge

    Really, what business is it of yours, anyway. That,s between him and God. None of your concern. Hypocrites like you have a harder time getting into heaven than someone who has never had the opportunity to hear the gospel in this life.

  • Norman myers

    what constitutes a good person? i will be the first to admit i Don’t know nor do I understand everything about G-D only a fool would make such a claim.If we can be saved by any other means other then G-d dying for us and paying our debt then he died and suffered in vane.i have not passed judgement on any one i Have only presented a question and quoted the bible as to the requirements of being saved.Liers,fornicators,murders,and unreported will not enter heaven but the place will be full of forgiven former sinners.no forgiveness without the shedding of blood.G-D shed his blood for us.he told us to believe on him repent and be baptized tis is the path to salvation.the heart of all men is wicked and the nature of man is fallen and in rebellion against G-D .what is your understanding of salvation ,the death and resurrection of Jesus

  • Norman myers

    what did i say that was hypocritical? the question was .”was Sam saved”? Did he have Jesus as his savior. The bible being our authority that explains G-D to us, is what i quoted. The argument is not with me but the word of G-D.was there any thing that i said that was not in the bible.

  • Norman myers

    The fact of the matter is, God promised salvation only to those who hear the Gospel message (Romans 10:17), believe on His Son (John 3:16), confess Christ’s name (Matthew 10:32-33), repent of their sins (Luke 13:3), have those sins remitted through baptism (Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21), and remain faithful (Revelation 2:10). Subsequent to the Day of Pentecost, Peter called upon his listeners to: “Repent ye therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out” (Acts 3:19). The word for “blotted out” derives from a Greek word meaning to “wipe out, erase, or obliterate.” The New Testament uses the word to refer to “blotting out” the Old Law (Colossians 2:14) and to “blot- ting out” a person’s name from the Book of Life (Revelation 3:5). One of the great prophetical utterances of the Old Testament was that “their sin will I re- member no more” (Jeremiah 31:34).

  • Tammie D. Kelly

    Thank you.

  • Anonymous

    Obviously Norman, when you poised the question “Does anyone know if Sam was saved” reflects much about you and is a huge indicator for anyone willing listen, that, you certainly do not understand God, or his perfect word.

    This nation is almost evenly divided, between those who believe in a creator and those who don’t. Its difficult to watch those who do not believe, make sport of the Eternal, for our nation is swiftly falling apart much faster than it can be repaired. On the other hand, one must ask the question, “who could blame them for not believing” – just look at what their confronted with – mass confusion and vast differences of religious beliefs within our nation alone, it’s enough to make one sick. Then, I can’t help but become frustrated and angry, toward those who claim they have understanding and then go about the business of spewing out garbage and lies, as if it were truth. If the religious community among us, made sure of one thing only – it must be – to make certain you know know the facts – get it right, before ever attempting to teach. If that simple procedure was put into action, then there would be countless others who would now be standing firmly behind God. So in my opinion, the greater blame for what is currently taking place in our nation, rests solely on the shoulders of millions of hypocrites who say they walk with God and do not.

    If you understood the scriptures as well as you claim, then you would understand what happens after death. There is a resurrection. Although, this subject has confused mainstream Christianity, they have not understood from shortly after Christ ascended into the heavens, unto this day. Men have a way of blindly following smooth talk and have always believed what other men teach them. Most set aside the responsibility of proving the – Word of God – for themselves, as God advises each of us to do…”Prove All Things” he declares…”hold fast to that which is good” – Ist Thessalonians 5:21

    It is a direct requirement from God, that we search out the scriptures and find the truth, making certain, we know what we’re talking about before ever attempting to educate others – it is crucial that we get it right…we must understand the truth.

    Really, anybody who’s interested in understanding the Word of God, should be able to pick up much knowledge alone by himself, by simply reading through the scriptures without the burden of having someone else there explaining their particular brand. Once a person does that, they’ll understand immediately, that the bible is a coded book, requiring ample time for the reader to digest and gain a better understanding, actually, God is seeking out those particular individuals who will take the required time and steps necessary, to move through the process of gaining the facts.

    The bible declares that these very days in which we now exist, are the last days…or, the time of the end. World governments are no longer able to solve their growing problems. Never has the world ever faced such weapons of mass destruction and when there is a combination of mad-men and atomic-bombs, it doesn’t take a genius to realize, that once those weapons are unleashed the whole world will get sucked in to the nuclear-nightmare.

    While Christ was yet alive, he warned of war and destruction becoming so wicked and so devastating, not a living thing – even down to a single blade of grass – would survive. There are no other weapons on earth that could cause such utter destruction, other than nuclear. Today, this evil world has been stockpiled with them. By the way, there has never been a weapon made, that somehow, wasn’t used for war.

    Because of this greatest time of suffering ever on the planet, that we are certain to witness ourselves and soon if things do not rapidly change in ability to solve our differences, a day of darkness and gloom, in fact, the bible refers to it as the great tribulation, is looming on the horizon. When this madness is unleashed, it will require God himself to intervene and stop mankind from killing every last living thing on the planet…and we claim to be civilized…that thinking is utter hogwash, and the biggest factor for our ignorance is – RELIGIOUS CONFUSION.

    When God says, “The whole world is deceived” Rev. 12:9 organized religion is included in that statement.

    When Christ intervenes to save mankind from himself, just before his return, is when those who know him and have lived their lives in obedience to him, they will be brought back alive from the dead, these former men and women are now reborn into spiritual bodies. “They came to life and reigned with Christ on the earth for a thousand years. (the rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were ended) This is the first resurrection.” – Rev. 20:4-5

    The bible itself calls this the “first resurrection” and afterwards, it says, the rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were over – so right there, the reader must be aware that there is at least a second resurrection.

    Now, again, this is where mainstream Christianity jumps off track, most make the claim, saying this second resurrection is hell, when the overwhelming masses who ever lived, will suffer forever in torturing-burning -flames, but they are emphatically wrong. These former flesh and blood human-beings, will once again, be given flesh and blood (physical) bodies, God will miraculously breath the breath of life into their lungs and they will once again regain conciseness, they will also retain their former memories and thoughts, by the way, even all of their old-bad-habits will be resurrected with them, now the judgement comes, these multiple-billions will now for the first time be educated in truth. They will be taught what you are hearing right now and then some. They will learn how to live-life, the way God intended from the beginning. There will be a period of time of somewhere around one-hundred-and-twenty years for these billions to get it right – and if and when they do (the greater majority will) these men and women will be instantly reborn into Gods spiritual kingdom having spirit bodies of their own.

    Now, as if two resurrections weren’t enough to deal with, there is even one more to come. This resurrection is called the last resurrection – or – the resurrection unto death. This is the where and when, all those who had their chance at salvation and chose not to conform, are burned to death until there is nothing left except ash…no suffering for millions and billions of years for something done in a relatively short human lifetime, God is much more merciful than that. This time period, is also when God the Father joins his Son Jesus Christ and comes to earth, making it his seat of power for all eternity. In fact, it is His brilliant fiery presence which causes, those who refused to conform, to be burned – the earth and all the elements will burn away too and a new earth will take its place.

    This is the message that got Christ killed, seems the world doesn’t care for it much either today, because if organized religion really understood the simple unadulterated truth found in the gospel – we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in.

    .

  • Anonymous

    What you say is all true…unfortunately, your timeline is all wrong. You do not understand the layout of Gods plan. He will rule the world for one thousand years, it will be a government of God, ruled by God – thus, the Kingdom of God. In any government, there is the Executive Branch, the Administration, Governors, Mayors, etc. For the past six thousand years, God has been busy gathering together those who will best be suited to rule along with him. Ministers and teachers will be needed to teach an ignorant world, who were deceived by the father of lies, Satan the devil.

    At his return, only these (the people who were called and chosen) will be resurrected at that time. No one else will be resurrected until the thousand years are finished. That is when the overwhelmingly vast majority of all humans ever created, will for the first time, hear the gospel message, the rest as you point out is part of the process.

  • Norman myers

    what does G-D’s return have to do with whether Sam was saved or not i don’t think we are on the same page here.

  • Anonymous

    Norman Myers

    I don’t have to make assumptions about you. What you write lays it
    all out for all to see. You think that God is trying his best to save
    the world today…that is an ignorant assumption coming from you, not
    the other way around.

    If God is not willing to even lose one
    individual, that certainly makes him look weak – as this present evil
    world, for that matter, the world from creation, has proven that God is
    no match for the devil, obviously, there are more ungodly human-beings
    than there are Godly.

    Yes, I am very concerned about the
    condition of the world, although I do not fear it, I fear for the safety
    of humanity, I fear for the well being of my own countrymen. Even the
    prophet Habakkuk wept for our people when God gave him visions of the
    very days we’re now living through.. So who are you to be without
    natural affection for mankind, God so loved the world that he sacrificed
    his only begotten son..
    So spare me your righteous indignation.
    “Watch therefore and pray always, that you may be found worthy to escape
    all these things, that will surely come to pass” – Luke 21:36

    Jesus
    himself told his followers to be concerned with end-time events giving a
    long list of things to watch for, prior to his return.

    The
    rapture is not biblical, I’m afraid that you’ll feel quite foolish when
    no one is magically whisked away – the more you talk, the more you
    expose your total ignorance of what you believe. The rapture is a modern
    theory cleverly slipped into the bible by men whom wanted their account
    to fit the gospel. Its a total sham.

    As far as Salvation goes,
    men have been misinterpreting what is said in 2nd Corinthians 6:2 and
    what it says about salvation. Compare it to Isaiah 49:8 from where it
    was quoted – “Now is a day of salvation” men have wrongly assumed that
    this is the only day of salvation. Limiting God, who says of himself –
    ‘he has no limits.’

    It is appointed for all men to die once and
    then the resurrection, those today, who now have truth, have spiritually
    died in Christ, making themselves ready to co-rule with him at his
    return. These very few individuals, have been judged – now – today in
    their lifetime. The rest of mankind will not be judged until after the
    second resurrection (After a thousand year reign of Christ) then, they
    will be given the truth and judged by how they live their lives, as I
    said, this will be a period of about 120 yrs or so. Most will be found
    worthy and able to enter into life. Very few, will fail the required
    task and they will face the second death – see Rev 21:8 – these poor
    souls die twice, never to be raised from death again.

    Actually
    the return of Christ is very close. Again you are wrong when you say
    that it could be tomorrow or ten thousand years from now. “When you see
    all these things take place, then know, I am standing at the door”
    Matthew 24:33

    Jesus gives a timeline of specific events that
    lead directly to his return. This being the main prophecy, “So when you
    see standing in the holy place – the abomination that causes desolation -
    spoken of through the prophet Daniel, let the reader understand”
    -Matthew 24:15 When one who really understands the truth sees this
    “abomination that causes desolation” with his own eyes, then the days
    from that moment on, can be counted – up until that time…”no one knows
    the hour or the day”, but his special elect do,,,they understand very
    well…well enough to flee for their lives and to be taken to a place of
    safety, where they will be nourished for a season and protected by God
    himself (for three and a-half years in the wilderness). By the way, this
    will be on earth – right smack-dab in the middle of the worst time of
    suffering ever known to man, but no harm will come upon them.

    The
    question you ask – “If Sam were saved” – as I thoroughly described in
    my above comment, shows your gross misunderstanding of the simple gospel
    of Jesus Christ. Your inconsiderate and untimely remarks are exactly
    what turn people off about God and religion. Not only that, you are dead
    wrong, Sam will have his chance of salvation, God will see to that,
    mark my word.

    As far as ‘what religion I am’, I’ll give you this
    clue alone, I speak what Christ spoke and nothing different, find the
    one church that matches these words and you’ve found the correct church
    of God. After all, it is Gods church, Doesn’t he advise us – “if men
    seek…they shall find.” otherwise, wouldn’t that make him out to be a
    liar..and God cannot lie!

    As far as the bible ‘not being a coded
    book’ as you wrongly lay claim – once again, nothing could be further
    from the truth. The bible is a mystery. Its content is like a puzzle
    “here a little – there a little” “precept upon precept – line upon line”
    It is a book about the nation of Israel, a people who have not yet
    discovered their true identity, mainly due to our -license to sin
    religions – preached throughout the world. “Just as I am” doesn’t cut it
    with Christ…there is hard work to be done, in replacing the stony
    heart of man..it takes a constantly repentant human mind and a
    forgiving God working together full-time …the two, really do become
    one.

    To limit God to only three personages…is false teaching, again, it places limits on God who frankly says, he has no limits.

    You
    ask me a question from your previous post, actually you were repeating
    the question I posed earlier as a general reference, I’ll indulge you
    and give you the answer now.

    “Who and what is God” and “what is the purpose of our human lives”.

    God
    and the Word, who later became Jesus Christ (God in the flesh) have
    always existed. Many turn their heads at this point because that
    scenario seems impossible, in their limited human reasoning, they cannot
    fathom such a concept and simply turn their backs – I’ve always looked
    at the equation in the opposite way, “what these two beings have always
    enjoyed – life eternal – they are offering to me, in fact to each of
    us.I Many may not completely understand their existence, but the concept
    of living forever certainly grabs my attention. So whats all the fuss.
    Anyway, getting back to my point, God and the Word decided that they
    wanted to share what they had with others, but the biggest hurdle they
    faced was – ‘could the beings they create be counted on never to sin’.
    The angels were created perfect. Out of fiat, that was the best God
    could do. But, he still had to test them and see first hand, if they
    would remain loyal. So as we see in the book of kings, the universe was
    created and the angels were in awe of Gods creative splendor and
    magnificence . These angels witnessed the creative genius of God first
    hand, they were dazzled with its beauty. God fully instructed all of the
    angels in right living. After some time, it was agreed that one third
    of the sum total of all the created angles, were to be placed on planet
    earth. The pinnacle of Gods creative genius was an arch-angle named
    Lucifer. This Lucifer was placed in charge of all those angels who were
    placed on earth.

    The bible doesn’t say for sure how much time
    elapsed, but these angels eventually sinned – proving to God that no
    other creature, other than a GOD BEING – could be counted on, never to
    sin. Even the perfectly created angels fell short. That is why only one
    third were placed here on the earth, God was not willing to risk the
    chance of all of them defecting.
    So – and thank God for his perfect
    insight, two thirds of the angelic creation continue to serve God
    perfectly each and every day.

    Now the above information can be
    considered, pre-history, what come next is recorded in the bible for our
    understanding and enrichment.

    As I said, god realized that only
    a God Being could be reliable upon – never to sin and that is the very
    purpose of our human lives….God is recreating himself through man, our
    vast human potential is to be born again into Gods Kingdom. Only
    perfect-spirit can and will enter into his world. Men – Reborn – into
    God. Yes, you heard that right. God is not limited, nor are the future
    sons of God. If we are a Son of God – we are God.

    By the way,
    that is what was found and discussed in the content of the original
    gospel message, that God, our Father, sent with His Son Jesus here to
    earth with, that is also what got Christ murdered.

    Satan the
    devil is still on this earth…he blinds the world from this
    exciting-awe-inspiring information, but thanks be to God, Christ will
    remove Satan away from his earthly throne and lock him in a dungeon for
    one thousand years. Christ will then sit on the throne of his father
    David and he and his saints, shall rule the earth for a thousand years.

    The gospel of men offer lies…

    The Gospel of God offers eternal life…choose life…Z

  • Anonymous

    see my reply below

  • Norman myers

    did you read this post?…zerogon you are making a lot of assumptions about me. What religion did I claim to be? It seems to me that you are quite conc…

  • Anonymous

    i want to celebrate us. Sam you are in a better place

  • Anonymous

    i know ….i need to be a better person in any small way i can . my eyes are leaking

  • Norman myers

    zerogon Let me give you a little advice get a KJV bible sit down and have a good read because if you are a Christian you have a gross misunderstanding of the bible. I don’t know what church you go to you have been cryptic about that, or what doctrine you follow. i find your teaching totally out of touch with what i have learned. you sound like a very frustrated person without the peace of G-D but then again if i had an outlook like yours maybe i would be to.I have always had a hard time accepting and understanding the predestination doctrine but maybe you are a prime example of it. I hope your eyes will be opened. i’ll pray for you As far as your claim to be G-D i think that was what santan used to cause the fall of man. we who are saved are children of G-D but thats all we are. we will never be equal to G-D or above him we may be able to do great works in his name but only because he wills it.we will never receive worship we will be his servants and only he knows what work he has in store for us.the bible plainly teaches that some will be lost and some will be saved time is short so please take the time and read the bible, and no other book that may have given you such a diluted view of the gospel,grace and your salvation. as far as the bible being a puzzle what was the early church puzzling over before the bible all they had was the hebrew scriptures and word of mouth many of the greeks turks and romans didn’t have that much they had evangelist traveling from town to town orally preaching the gospel it was a simple message it wasn’t some sort of vast enigma requiring years of study to understand.Man and his divisions has turned it into that. those people were given the simple gospel with the opportunity to be saved right there on the spot. it;s simple either you accept Jesus as your savior or you don’t. to me your way of cutting up the bible trying to make it fit like a puzzle could lead someone in to all kinds of strange doctrine.I’ll give you some more advice the devil will use the scriptures with a lie to trick you and lead you a stray.so please pray for a more complete understanding of the gospel because brother you need it.

  • Norman myers

    no nun han guk saramimnika? no hangul mal ul ha saeyo?

  • Steve Cox

    Norman, Just so you know I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, commonly referred to as the LDS or Mormon Church. Our Beliefs do include the Biblical truths you mentioned and we accept Bible Truths as long as they have been translated and understood correctly. The key to understanding Truths in the Bible is to receive them in the same way in which they were given, revelation from the Holy Ghost. This is how the prophets of old for the most part received Gods Teaching and it is also how we receive a confirmation of them. I appreciate your explanations and your humility in recognizing you do not have all the answers. Likewise I do not have all the answers nor will I pretend to have them all but let me say the LDS do believe all God has revealed, all the he does now reveal, and that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. We believe in the same organization the existed in the primitive Church therefore we believe in Apostles and Prophets who ask for and receive revelation from God for all the world. I pointed you to the revelations of Peter in the New Testament in regard to Christ when he died, and before he was resurrected, went to the spirits in prison to teach them his gospel. Why would he do that unless there was salvation for them? The Bible itself does not give a sufficient explanation. Some would claim the Bible has all the answers we need and reach for meanings from their own understanding, they clearly get off track. I myself, prefer to rely on Apostles and Prophets to reveal truths and then to get the confirmation from the Holy Ghost as to the truth of the matter. Here is a link to a revelation from a Prophet in our day on this very topic. I hope you read it carefully and pray about it. Let me know what you think of it or ask for more info if you wish.

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/138?lang=eng

  • Steve Cox

    You are well read in the Bible, more so then most I talk to. Now do as I suggested in my last post and read the linked revelation. It does in fact show how all will be taught the gospel.

  • Norman myers

    steve I understand that you are LDS and you believe that old joe smith was a prophet. I have had the mormon boys in my house talking about their belief but when they start telling me about things outside of the bible i have to shut them down because i will not accept any teaching unless it comes from the bible old and new testament Unless G-D himself speaks to me in what ever form he chooses and tells me that yours or any other belief system is his word i will reject it. I am perfectly willing to talk to anyone about G-D or their view of G-D but when their teaching in direct or indirect contradiction to the bible i have to reject it.when joe smith met what appeared to him to be an angle being the first thing i thought of is the warning that even the devil can appear as an angel of light.then they quote out of another testement of Jesus Christ well I can’t help thinking about if anyone teaches any other gospel let him be accursed. I test all things I trust no mans word if it cannot be proven in the bible i give it no credence.I am an engineer by trade. i follow instructions i give orders and one thing i learned early on in my career is to say what you mean and mean what you say be concise because if you are ambivalent in any way some one will get it wrong and twist what you say all out of order every time. I personally use the KJV of the bible i have read and used other versions but the KJV i believe for an english speaking person is the most clear and true translation but if some one can prove they have a clearer more concise translation i will listen to them but i’ll have to prove it to myself.

  • Anonymous

    Even a small portion of advice from you, would be for me to invite the devil in, removing the protective armor of God…reckless-insanity is what you describe and what your organized religion suggest is best for the world, you and your cohorts, halfheartedly study the Word of God then you pawn yourself off as Christian. – you sir are a fake…you have willing swallowed the fraudulent words of the god-of-this-world Satan the devil. He is your master. How do I know this – because the truth of God is a reproach unto you..it is a hissing – a disturbing noise.

    Predestination – is a concept found in the bible, where as, the Rapture was not introduced unto a world filled with gullible men, until the late 19th century. Of course you do not understand truth, that’s what the definition is – for one who is deceived.

    Mankind was created with freewill of choice…we are not robots. God has enabled all mankind to make their own decisions. He would prefer, that we would choose good over bad, but he does not force any of us to do so – AND WHY – because, before the foundation of the world, as it plainly says in the KJV – Ephesians 1:4 – God had prearranged to call a select group of people to open their minds to spiritual truth and understanding.

    Again…I cannot stress this point enough…men are agents of free moral choice…all of us – BILLIONS IN FACT…and so, even though God had made a choice to pre-call a select group of humans long before the foundation of the world..these humans, had to exhibit in themselves, a certain good quality, before these individuals were actually called by God in their human lifetime, this group of individuals – prior to their calling, all contained certain qualities in their decision making abilities that God has a desire to work with…in other words, God thought he could mold and shape them – these individuals humbled themselves before God like little children – they became teachable in that respect..other humans who were/are set in their ways could not be approached by God – and its not that he hasn’t tried mind you – for you are a fine example of why all men are not called in this day and age. Your minds cannot be reached by God – all these (the vast majority of mankind) who possessed a certain callousness, or hardness of heart and wouldn’t allow God to work with them, will not be called to understanding, nor will they receive their calling until much later, in fact after they have died. Their calling will come in a future resurrection, as I described before, after the thousand years of Christs reign on the earth has been finished.

    There continues to be men and women in this present day, that God is interested in, if they humble themselves before him, asking him for understanding, then he will call that individual to be a part of this first-fruits-group – these then, are the saints of God who have made themselves ready – before his return and they will be given white robes. They will sit in seats of high authority next to the Word of God himself and they will help Jesus Christ change this evil world for good.

    Its to bad that you’re so stubborn, calling evil-good and that which is good-evil…you’re a prime example why God is not calling everyone in this world today…you refuse to listen to his perfect word and prove the truth for yourself. .

  • Mandidev

    No, but you left out a lot that is. Pick and choose your quotes to belittle another so you feel you are saved and they(we) are not. I hope you feel better than everyone now. I am sure that is what He wants.

  • Mandidev

    That is up to us.

  • Norman myers

    zerogon there is no one beyond the reach of G-D not even you. as far as my advice goes what was so bad or wrong with it? What organized religion do i belong to or have i professed? I have only stated that I was a Christian do you have a pastor or church brethren that you can seek out to help you with your misunderstanding of the scriptures? Your mindless rambling are hard to make sense of but not to worry i won’t cast you aside. I said it be fore and I’ll say it again you seem to be tormented soul without the peace or love of G-D.you worry about the country,you are worried about the world.this shows your total lack of faith and understanding of G-D’S plane regardless of what happens or when it happens it will happen and G-D wins. I read the end of the book.tell me how does the house of satan stand if it is at war with it self? so is your contention that no one will be lost? what do we do continue to recycle till we get it right.the next thing you will be telling me that G-D was a man and he had a bunch of Mrs G-DS breeding out a bunch of little G-dS. what folly. I do however want to thank you it’s been very entertaining.

  • Norman myers

    what are you responding to? i don’t understand what you mean.

  • Norman myers

    Steve is this what you believe?
    To the Mormons, Jesus, is the first born son of an exalted “man” who became the god of this world. According to LDS church teaching, their god was first a man who became a god. The man-god of Mormonism was then made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the Universe. He “earned” godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men on earth. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they too shall one day can become a god. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of “their” world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. This is the Mormon doctrine of “eternal progression.

  • Anonymous

    I have never made such a claim, that any mortal-man is beyond the reach of God, that is fools talk, coming from a confused mind. As far as rambling on, incoherently, the so-called mindless ramblings you speak of, are straight out of the mind of God, so if you’re dissatisfied, feel free to take it up with him, I’m certain he will move haven and earth solely because you ask him to.

    Yes indeed, you have made the bold statement claiming you are a Christian, but your words do not match up with the knowledge a Christian needs to have, but for those who are, they immediately understand the truth of God when they see it “For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart” Hebrews 4:12

    “Two cannot walk together unless they agree” Amos 3:3 and you say, “you won’t cast me aside” – I say to you, “get behind me Satan”

    You continue to expose your callousness and complete lack of understanding of scripture, Jesus wept for Jerusalem – saying, “I would that even today, you knew the things that make for peace! But now they are hid from your eyes” Luke 19:42 Jesus was tormented, because of the knowledge he had concerning the near future of the City of Jerusalem, even though, Jesus was a Jew, his own received him not, they never excepted the simple Gospel that was carried to mankind by Christ, from the Father above. Jesus had compassion for all mankind, even though the Jews did not understand him, or except his words, due to religious confusion and deception, he still wept for them, out of love for them. I too, have compassion for men who are deceived, especially my own countrymen. It tears a hole in my heart, knowing what will soon take place. I do not fear death, but I do not scoff at death like you have foolishly demonstrated. Because of your arrogance, you feel you have already been saved. And who are you to question my faith, you certainly have knowledge, but understanding is far from you, therefore, wisdom cannot be found, in which, you have clearly demonstrated time and again.

    A house divided cannot stand..Satan or otherwise, Have you not heard – have you not read – talk about aimless ramblings coming from a man who refuses to hear truth. I challenge you to go back and read my former posts, in them, there is talk of the final resurrection, where those who are of the house of corruption, love it, more than life itself – these will enter into death. God called David “a man after his own heart” when David was just a boy, he fought off a lion to save a few sheep, there were times that David would leave the whole flock to seek out the few and David never returned until he safely brought them back into the fold. Now, if David had this quality, who are you to question God rather he seek out his lost sheep, or gather them as he pleases?

    Again, your continued scoffing lays your ignorance wide open. Recycled humans(?) sounds more like a Sy-Fy movie to me. The next thing I’ll tell you is, yes God was a man, or is that information missing from your version of the KJV? and yes, Jesus will marry his wife upon his return to this earth. The Father in heaven will join the two as one, they will rule over the children of God forever throughout all eternity.

    Something tells me that shadow puppets would be entertaining for you…you certainly do not show the maturity, or wisdom God insists his saints have.

  • Steve Cox

    Norman, The links I gave you first are from the KJV, this is the official Bible the Church uses. You have not yet responded to what you think Peter was talking about? Do you think Christ did indeed teach the Spirits of those who had died? Why do you think he would do that? Here is a link from the Bible that defines scripture:

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-pet/1.19-21?lang=eng#18

    We are not as weird as you think. We believe our teachings harmonize completely with the Bible. I like I said as long as it is translated and understood by the same means it was given we can indeed know what is from God. The Bible is revelations given to prophets. Why do you think things changed in the way God shared his truths?

  • Norman myers

    zerogon
    Your ire knows no bounds is this what you believe ..Jesus, is the first born son of an exalted “man” who became the god of this world. According to LDS church teaching, their god was first a man who became a god. The man-god of Mormonism was then made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the Universe. He “earned” godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men on earth. This is what the celestial marriage and the temple vows are all about. LDS men, by doing their temple work, are striving for exaltation by which they too shall one day can become a god. Their wives will be the mother goddesses of “their” world and with their husband will produce the population of their world. if it is i can understand your confusion and blindness.But not to worry I’ll pray for you that you will be delivered from cultic teachings. Now show me verse and chapter where G-D was a man other then Jesus putting on this earthly flesh to die for you.I have never read where the father was ever a man. so please show me.now you have never answered me other then being a christian what religion or doctrine have i confessed to? now i didn’t ask you about G-D’s relationship with the church i asked you about the time before the earth i’m sorry i should have made it much clearer i guess. please don’t feel like iam scoffing at you or picking on you it’s just i fell sorry for you and sometimes one must be absurd to demonstrate absurdity.i enjoy our bantering it keeps one thinking.so now i am the devil am i if i were the devil don’t you think i could do better handling such a feeble theologian such as yourself ? although you have not admitted to it i think you are a mormon i don’t know but i must say of the mormons i have met you are quite an entertaining one.i just curious are you male, female or other. how old are you? trying not to be nosy just curious.just like to get to know my new friend how did i scoff at death i think you should be concerned about yor spiritual death and less about your physical one.

  • Steve Cox

    Your first couple sentences are correct. Do you believe that God and Christ are separate and distinct beings? The Bible indeed teaches this quite simply time and again.

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/5.17-23?lang=eng#15

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/17.8-11?lang=eng#7

    Norman, can you read these scriptures and so many others that teach us that Christ and the Father are separate and distinct beings without questioning your old sectarian notions of the Trinity? Why would Christ strive to teach us to become more holy and perfect ourselves if we were not indeed all separate beings? You will note the one-est that Christ teaches is conforming our thoughts, will and actions to his as he conformed completely to his Fathers. They are one in perfection, attributes, desire and purpose they are not the same being. This is in fact what the Bible teach over and over again.

    Beyond the second sentence of your explanation you are speculating what we believe. For example: Christ is the God of this world not some man-god you refer to. What we are capable beyond this life is only possible because of the Atonement and grace of Christ. This is what the Bible teaches and this is what we believe. Temple work is all about extending the ordinances of Salvation to all, both the living and the dead. If you had followed the other link I gave you to the revelation of our day you would better understand what temple work is about. I have to assume you only wish to bash what you don’t understand because you have not responded to any of my questions or requests? You know I could make your beliefs sound pretty strange if that was my goal, but it’s not, I would think you prefer understanding to confusion? It’s really up to you however.

  • Norman myers

    Is this what you wanted me to read? i there is more i missed it

    19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; where unto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

    20 Knowing this first, that ano prophecy of the scripture is of any privation interpretation.

    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the dHoly Ghost.

    19 they had Christ in their presence not the words of a prophet but they had G-D in their midst they had the living embodiment of prophecy

    20 prophecy is not up to you or i to interpret G-D or if you would rather scripture interprets prophecy

    21 man does not give prophecy but G-D does.

    is this what your asking about this was all that was high lighted.

    now if you are asking did Jesus preach to those in the grave, Hades,or some call it hell and i’m not sure but i think it’s also called limbo.this is the abode of righteous saints of the old testament led out of captivity after the resurrection. then yes he went there and set the captive free. old testament saints were under the sacrificial law we are under grace Jesus’s fulfilled the law we no longer have to sacrifice innocent animals to atone for our sins

    i have never disrespected mormons i just don’t think or believe they are right in their belief. I leave that up to G-D I have no axe to grind i belong to no church I profess no denomination I declare my belief to G-D the father ‘son and Holy Spirit I have read the bible on my on and have debated with JWs, Catholics, Baptist,presbyterian, and jews i guess where ever Christ is taught him sacrificed and risen i want to be there.i will listen to any man’s view and i question every thing>I do believe the the Bible is the final word on the matter. i find it amazing how people will read the exact same passage from the bible and come up with different interpretations.each thinking he is correct. now this who thing got started with a simple question “did any one know whether Sam was saved or not” i had no ideal it would bloom into such a discussion it’s a common question amongst my people when we hear of some one passing. now sam was 17 when he died he was a bright articulate young man well beyond the age of accountability.the sad thing is if he was not saved if he rejected the Gospel Of Christ he was lost just like any other soul. this notion all you have to do is try to live a good life is totally alien to me and what the Holy spirt has taught me.my own mother as good a women as she is will be lost if she does not accept Christ soon but she feel she is beyond forgiveness. The response were more akin to indignation and hatred for asking such a question.Poor old zerogon thinks i am the devil incarnate. are you able so read our bantering. He’s a funny fellow.

  • Norman myers

    i got this from a mormons website “what do mormons believe” what part of it is not true and if it is not true what parts are false. i haven’t bashed your beliefs i just asked if these statements are true or not i have stated I don’t believe mormans are right in their doctrine. whom better to ask than a mormon I mean for a people whom are supposed to be firm in their faith you seem to have awfully soft shells as to the trinity i think G-D the father and G-D the son and G-D the spirit are one G-D reveling himself to us in three persons every thing the father thinks the son and the spirt also think their will and desires are not separable when God was on this earth in human form his father was in heaven, when the son went to the father he sortly sent God the spirit to be with us until his return.This is what the Holy spirt teaches us ,convicts us,and restrains evil in the world today.I don’t believe that G-D was ever a man who became G-D through some type of works program or grand council. The problem that mankind has is trying to understand and explain something or some one whom exist in all three time lines who is not bound by physical laws of the universe this is like a ameba looking up at the sun and explaining the universe. Now if you think that you or any of your brethren can shake my tree or tear down my beliefs please try because no man has taught me what i believe or understand to be true I read the bible and the holy spirt teaches.I f i come across something that i don’t understand i study about it pray about it and wait upon the lord. Now i’m not sure i wasn’t there but Didn’t this mormon thing start during a revival period in the 1800′s old joe was upset at all the different teaching he was hearing went in the woods to pray and then he saw the being that looked like an angle? got given some tablets to interpret messed it up and they got taken away.lets see you have a distraught man seeing visions making claims that are contradictory to known biblical history and have no physical proof of the encounter.but it dosen’t stop there.the mormon beliefs from my understanding has gone through several metamorphous in their short time period of their existence sounds like your the new kids on the block and your having a tough time of fitting in.Let me ask you something if and lets just say IF we had no knowledge of Jesus Christ if he had not come but the other religions of the world did exist islam,Buddhism,taoism,Judaism,any and all the others to choose from which one would choose?

  • Socialism: Organized Evil

    Since parents have various ways to advance their children’s interests, we should recognize that inheritance is a superior moral choice compared to other options, such as nepotism.

  • Anonymous

    I believe the plain and simple Word of God. Not mans version – but GODS In it, if any man would give the time to take a look, it describes pre-history, that is, before there was anything else, except for these two Eternal Beings…’God and the Word’. Many do not understand the bible simply cannot be read like any novel pulled off the shelf. In the letter written by John, we see his very first words describe this account – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made, without him, nothing was made that has been made” so if what John is describing here for us (in the forth book of the Gospel record), means, this one called the Word, was the creating force of everything that exists, that means, it is this very Being (of the two) who created the universe, the angels and even mankind..at least that’s what this Gospel Letter of John is telling us. continue…”In him was life and that light, was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it” We are then given the information in verse 14, explaining the answer you ask, “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” it plainly states that this Word, or the Light of Men “came to us from the Father” So if one is to believe every word of God as he instructs…then what has been described here for us is quite clear. So to answer your opening remarks (above reply), Jesus was God in the human flesh. So that then, proves the LDS denomination wrong.

    If you noticed, the verses just given, agree with a running theme found throughout the bible, that men (except for a select few) do not understand the Word of God – be the Word in the flesh, when Jesus Christ himself walked among men, or the Word of God in print…the Holy Bible. “the darkness has not understood it” and why, notice what is found in Rev.12:9, “And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil (in the book of Genesis, it was the devil, doing his work of deception, in the form of a serpent when he deceived Adam and Eve)…and Satan, which deceives the whole world.” what is gleaned from this information – this world deception, has been here with us since the beginning of mans sojourn on this planet. Nothing will change that, other than, the return of Christ – “And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years” Rev.20:1-2

    As far as you disputing the idea, that men are born human and have the magnificent potential, to be reborn into the spiritual family of God – as his sons, thus, becoming very God Beings ourselves, this very touchy subject has not only troubled men in this day and age, but notice what the Jews thought when Jesus himself discussed the subject in his day, the account is found in the tenth chapter of John verses 25-39, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Fathers name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Fathers hand. I and the Father are one. Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shone you many great miracles from the Father, for which of these do you stone me?’ (Notice what their answer was) “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because, you, a mere man, claim to be God” – (more importantly, notice how Jesus answered them back), “Is it not written in your law (meaning the old testament, in which he was about to quote) continue…”I have said, “you were Gods” (So lets go and take a look and see for ourselves the very scripture Christ was quoting here, its found in the book of Psalms 82:6 – “I said you are ‘gods’ – you are all sons of the Most High’, but you will die like mere men, you will fall like every other ruler”) Now, lets get back to what was being discussed in the book of John, “If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the Word of God came (Christ came to mankind) – and the scripture cannot be broken – what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?” (It seems the world is no different today, in its thinking about the subject of the future of mankind , then it was back in Christs day), continue in verse 36…”Why then do you accuse me of blaspheme, is it because I said, “I am Gods Son?” Do not believe me unless I do what my Fathers does, but if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand, that the Father is in me and I in the Father. Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp”.

    Frankly I’m not interested in the Mormon (LDS) gospel. Like all religions, they do not prove the Word of God for themselves, by what you correctly describe about them, will allow anyone with eyes, to see, how very different the teachings are that they profess, than from what Christ clearly said.

    Make no mistake, when God tells us to ‘prove him at his word’, there is a lot of study that goes along with that statement, the problem with men is, they let other men do the so-called proving, taking the easy way out and simply following along with what ever gospel best fits their lifestyle. Men prefer the easy path, the smooth road.

    Romans 8:7, “Because the carnal mind is enmity (hostile) against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be” – That verse explains, in a nut shell, why there are so few today, who take the necessary time, to actually study and prove the bible for themselves…the overwhelming vast majority of all humankind, their minds are hostile toward God, they will not humble, or submit themselves enough to seek out truth, but God is ever searching for those few individuals who do, and he will call those few into his predestined group – the group that was known to him before the foundation of the world took place, this group is known to him as his flock, or church. Now let me make this clear, God understood the “hostile nature of man” long before he created them, it was his genius that foresaw a need for a group of people to be trained during their lifetimes – before Christs return, so that when Christ does return to this earth, he will have a helpmate to help shoulder the burden of teaching multiple-billions of resurrected humanity, the simple truth found in Word of God. How many more people are needed, or will make themselves teachable – only God knows, but as I said, he’s ever looking for individuals that he feels he can work with, but listen to what is written here, – “Many are called but few are chosen” – Matthew 22:14 and Jesus Christ spoke those words himself. So here we have a predestined group of people, who have been ‘called ahead of time, before the vast majority of all humanity, but here the scripture says, “few are chosen”. So, its not a certainty at all, that everyone in that predestined group, who were called by God make it into the chosen group – God the Father simply thought he could work with their minds, thus, he would call them and give them a chance because – again – he felt he could work with them – but as the scriptures indicates – only a few will end up in that very elect group,which God classifies as the “chosen ones” also known to him as his saints.

    Not everybody has the mind capable of grasping that concept, and that is why so few are called today – for God is not willing that any man perish. This is also something little know or understood, Jesus was stripped of his divinity when born of the flesh…rendering him, as human as, you, or me. The difference between him and us – and what made it possible for him never to sin, was the added gift of God the Fathers Spirit within him, at no other time in the history of the world, was that gift made available to men, except for individuals that God needed at that time, such as prophets and priests – but other than that, the Holy Spirit was not available to men, until the first Pentecost, after Jesus had risen from the grave. Jesus came as an example for mankind to follow, and he repeatedly said “without my Father I can do nothing” – see John 8:28, Now read what he says about us, “I am the vine, you are the branches; He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth good fruit: for without me you can do nothing”-John 15:5 What these verses are telling us – without the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in us, we can do nothing in other words – we cannot do what God wants us to do. Now as you correctly pointed out in one your earlier posts, repentance – baptism are a requirement, but where the worlds religions fail to come to grips with, the receipt of the Holy Spirit is essential for us to walk with Christ. And, as in Christs day, while yet with us, the laying on of hands is a part of baptism that many leave out today. Now, baptism represents, or pictures, ones sins being washed away by that specific individuals acceptance of Christ’s blood sacrifice. When the newly converted member of Gods flock, actually receives the Holy Spirit, the two become one, that is, Gods Spirit is now in the body of the individual just baptized. This “entity” (the Spirit) does not keep one from sinning though, it only brings to recall that which should be done, it is still up to the individual to choose the good over the bad, if though, the person does sin, this sin must be repented of before the person dies – or – this person will die in his sin. That is how dangerous the Gospel message of God really is, and that is precisely why God is NOT calling the whole world in this day, There are few individuals indeed who can follow through – even with the Spirit in them, until Christ returns. If a person simply decides for one reason or another, just to walk away, turning his back on the pledge he swore at baptism, and claiming Christs sacrifice for his personal sin, then that my friend, is “unpardonable” – how can Christ die twice for the sins of mankind – it is impossible. That is why God is calling only a few today, ever searching for minds that he thinks he can work with…this eternal life thing is serious business, and God is not willing to loose any, but that doesn’t mean some humans won’t be thrown into the lake of fire, that is their choice…he will not force anyone to obey his sacred Word.

    Now let me show you that Gods one true church, will literally, marry Christ at his return. Take a look at Ephesians 5:23-27 where it explains the New Testament Church is the Bride of Christ. Then compare that with the following, “And there came unto me one of the seven angles which had the seven vials, full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, ‘Come here, I will show you the bride, the Lambs wife.” Revelation 21:9

    Don’t be to sure that Christ isn’t calling you now, and using me to do so, either way, meaning, whatever decision you make, Christ will bring our conversation back to remembrance when you meet him. Who knows, maybe I can throw you a few verses here and there, at that time, that will get you on your way to a better understanding.

    ZEROGON

  • Norman myers

    have you ever been to a online chat room called http://WWW.ChristianChat .com there you can use chat rooms and convers in real time with a mike and video i like it better then typing they have real time bible s that you can use to show what your talking about go there and check it out and let me know what you think.i’ts an open forum with all kinds of different chat rooms to pik fro my name is NUN if you see me there and would to chat

  • Anonymous

    I appreciate the offer, but truthfully, I’ve always gone by the adage, “he who is convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.”

    There will come a day when men will ask Christ, “how come I never had a chance to become a first-fruit”, and then he’ll remind these people, of just how many chances they turned down.

    Peace be with you…ZEROGON

  • Steve Cox

    Hi Norman, I’m pleased you expounded your concerns and belief a little. It tells me you indeed want to understand instead of close your mind to things that are new or different. What you read online about the church often confuses and many sites are there just for that expressed propose, to confuse people about what the LDS believe.I like to start a discussion from things we may agree on and why we agree in these things. Then we can talk about the differences. Your reading of 2 Peter 1:19-21 is not bad but look for the bigger picture in verse 21:

    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    Do you agree that this revelation tells us how we got the Scriptures when the Lord was not there in person to give it? Amos said something along the same line:

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/amos/3.7?lang=eng#6

    7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

    The next question I have may seem easy to you but again you need a good reason from the scriptures to justify it, if as you say you can only believe in the Bible as scripture then you limit God as to who he can speak to or reveal his will to. why is that?

    You are questioning what others believe about where Jesus went when he died and you confess you are not sure yourself. Do you agree he told one of the thief’s he would be with him in paradise and that very day? If so where did the other thief go? I assume you believe they all three died yet it’s not even reasonable to assume that paradise is heaven in this case. Christ told Mary three days later that he had not yet risen to his Father who was in heaven. This whole time-line sectarian notion of the trinity as three persons but one being falls apart when you think about Christ being dead yet he was not with his Father yet he was the Father preaching to the dead but then he says he has not yet been to his Father in heaven. Talk about confusion.. The Scriptures really are much easier to understand if you take them literal for the most part. Start with Genesis 1:26

    26 ¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Who do you Think God was talking to when he said “Let us make man in our image” Us and Our are Plural right? What do you think John really meant when he said:

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/john/1.1-4?lang=eng

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    Norman, was Not Christ the light of Man. Was he not the God of this earth? Here it says he was in the beginning with God the Father and he Created Man in his own image. Do you think this could be talking about the same thing Moses was talking about in Genesis?

    Again these two instances of the Creation kind of mess up the Sectarian notion of the Trinity but it Harmonizes perfectly with what Joseph Smith testified to:

    22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

    23 A man may receive the Holy Ghost, and it may descend upon him and not tarry with him.

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/130.22-23?lang=eng#21

    My point in all this is to show that you can get started having good intentions to understand the scriptures but many old traditional ideas about God and his nature are false and even the Bible clearly teaches them as false.

  • Steve Cox

    Norman, I guessing you gave up on this discussion? Not sure why but in response to the two questions you had: “Let me ask you something if and lets just say IF we had no knowledge of Jesus Christ if he had not come but the other religions of the world did exist islam,Buddhism,taoism,Judaism,any and all the others to choose from which one would choose?”

    I would choose Judaism since I would prefer to believe in the God of Israel. The Old Testament is packed with the teachings of True Prophets. You have to remember that Israel will blossom as a rose and as a chosen people they will come to know the Jesus is the Christ the son of the Living God. Your other question seems to center around Joseph Smith and the revelations he received. I would suggest a reading of his history because you seem to have a cnfused understa

  • Steve Cox

    My last post on this thread, if you do not respond I’ll assume you are done talking. You still seem confused why people here came down on you for asking if Sam was saved. Just listening to Sam and his philosophy should convince anyone he was innocent and no guile was in him. Weather he had the gospel or not is not the determining factor of his salvation. Christ has provided for the living and the dead to hear his gospel. Again read the revelations at these links to understand.

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/138?lang=eng

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/137?lang=eng

  • Norman myers

    haven’t given up just busy got a lot of pokers in the fire