# UPDATED: Check out this ‘frustrated’ father’s response to his child’s Common Core homework

Update: Jeff Severt, the father who wrote the anti-Common Core note, joined Glenn on his TV show Tuesday night. Watch the interview below:

Original Story:

TheBlaze has reported on countless instances of strange ‘facts’ creeping into Common Core sanctioned materials and math problems that are to be solved with never-before-seen methodology. One ‘frustrated’ father who was trying to help his son with a Common Core mathematics equation ran into that very issue, and what he did next is making its way around the internet.

Below is the father’s alleged response to the Common Core homework:

As TheBlaze’s Oliver Darcy reported, that photo was posted to a popular conservative Facebook page. While the photo was initially posted anonymously, the father has agreed to speak with Glenn on Tuesday’s Glenn Beck Program about the incident.

“I don’t even begin to understand,” Glenn said of the Common Core reasoning. “It’s so easy: 7 minus 6 is 1. 2 minus 1 is 1. 4 minus 3 is 1. It is so simple. This is the easiest of all math problems, and they have complicated it to how many steps? [It] takes 10 steps instead of 3.”

While Stu was willing to admit it is important to teach students different processes, this particular process over-complicates one of the simpler and more basic math principles.

“If you’re trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, like they are trying to show the process and all this stuff,” Stu said. “But it’s just counting. Like 7 minus 6 is 1. Like you learn these basic four or five things to do in math and you get through almost everything.”

Since there is really no logical explanation for much of the reasoning used in Common Core, perhaps the more cynical theory will actually prove to be true. If parents no longer understand how to help their kids with schoolwork, the role of the parent becomes less and less important.

“I think this is to discredit,” Glenn concluded. “Discredit parents and the old ways.”

Don’t miss the Glenn Beck Program, weekdays at 5pm ET only on TheBlaze. Not a subscriber? Start your 14-day free trial HERE.

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• landofaahs

Using the Core logic, we would need to get rid of computers and rely completely on going to the library everyday to do research. I mean that computer thing saves too much time We must waste time so we will be more unproductive so we can create more jobs in order to achieve the same results. I guess we will need to replace tractors with horses and mules so it will take more people to farm less acres and provide less food. It creates jobs don’t it? democrats are retarded.

• Helen Christopher

❤❤❤ ❤❤❤ ❤❤❤ ❤❤⟁❤ ❤❤❤this particular process over-complicates one of the simpler and more basic math principles.

• Anonymous

also known as socialism

• Alan Bean

I would use a library anyways. Libraries are the enemy of socialism because they are the first and primary proponents of free thinking. The library is a tool to abolish ignorance.

• Matt Guempel

Unless it’s liberals managing what is on the shelves. Just like the books used in classrooms from elementary to college

• Anonymous

Not if you allow indoctrination as you see with common core.

• TempleThorPreacher

You realize libraries are ;paid for by the state, with our tax dollars, right?

• Jeff Peters

There are thousands of private libraries.

• Anonymous

I believe there were an abundance of liberals being against cutting funding to libraries where I live.

In fact, I think most libraries are supported by government or by “liberal” schools of higher education (who themselves likely accept federal grants of all sorts).

• we won

This isnt about liberal or conservative its about education. In this case the teaching of critical thinking skills. In order to know that Jack make a mistake the student has to do the traditional math (shown at the beginning of the worksheet). This way you think critically and attempt to figure out the pattern of the number line used by Jack. This way you can work out what mistake he made. It isnt really that difficult of a concept.As a corp trainer in the tech industry I can tell you that critical thinking and problem solving skills in the next generation are SEVERLY lacking. It sounds like you republitards could have used some of this ejumakashun when you were in school.

• landofaahs

That is funny. Why don’t you use that critical thinking skill to find out that our education costs more than anyone else in the world and we rank probably 27th in math and that our education system has been run by libtards for decades. So the critical thinking skills should show where the dumocrats went wrong in their figuring. Math is a discipline of building blocks. 1+1=2 and you could obsess for hours giving examples of why someone could come up with the wrong answer. And for what end? It’s a waste of time for any student with half a brain. Teach it right and go on.

• Brie

Teach it right? and what would be the right way? Your way? What if I want to add 1/2+1/2+1/2+1/2 to get 2? Why is my way wrong? What if 1+1 is actually 14? (let me know if you figure out how it can be 14, it’s really quite simple) Nope, don’t learn anything different. Because we all know the world is the same today as it was 50 years ago…

• Tino

i agree with landofaahs, he isn’t saying the world is the same as it was before, but he has a good point. Take the normal steps, 1+1=2 then you move on to learn fractions where 1 = 1/2+1/2, etc but its all just basic building blocks, the newer ways of teaching is way too complex. I saw many posts from you above and understand you have been teaching for 10 years but did you ever stop to see things in a different perspective? To me, sticking with the basics and working up to a higher level of math is easier than cramming all these weird methods for basic problems that will not help much later on… oh right and at a lower math level, thing are suppose to be basic, you learn, take what you learned and apply it later on? just my 2cents

• Brie

I think that is my point, looking at it from a different perspective. Part of the basics is learning to make sense out of numbers, not just applying rules and operations to them. Like I’ve said, many of these methods predate Common Core. What does 1+1=2 mean? I’m not sure if you saw my post about the students with problems like 15-8? I have kids that will cross out the one in the 10s place and put it back in with 5. It’s because they don’t understand what 15 is. A number like can assist student with that. I am 100% advocating looking at it differently. !00% for have students learn more than one way to solve a problem. While I was going through my teacher courses I sat in my Math methods class learning these tools my self and saying, “Wow… Why wasn’t I taught that, I get it!” I actually improved not only in my math skills, but my thinking skills. I’m a big proponent of Marilyn Burns, which is where many of these methods originate, not Common Core… It’s about going from the concrete to the abstract. What makes it weird to you is simply that you didn’t learn it that way… If you don’t understand something, that doesn’t make it wrong…

• Matt Smith

• Anonymous

Yes, you could spend the next semester figuring that one out. I’m sure there’s at least 100 separate steps to arrive at the answer.

• Jeff Peters

“our education costs more than anyone else in the world” It doesn’t.

• Anonymous

You really believe that if you just say something it becomes true because you want it to be, don’t you. Take a look. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/.

• Jeff Peters

“that if you just say something it becomes true” Whats your real name again? Also, that report is flawed – it does not take into account percentage of GDP and only looks at “dollar to dollar” value. It also didn’t separate out public schools vs private schools, and factored in other secondary expenses. “When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training” And that is the only way they could even have the US top it. Thus, you failed on all accounts.

• Anonymous

No, you did, but keep talking. Seriously, everyone here is completely buying that you’re a conservative.

• Anonymous

I think the problem is a little more complex than you let on.

• prettyhomedecor

that is what the common core is trying to change. Get away from all the memorizing of facts and learn the theories behind them.

• landofaahs

You can discuss theories, but you memorize facts. 4+5=9 is not theory but fact. If you wish to teach thinking skills, a good course in logic and philosophy can teach that. To waste time on 4+5=9 is a waste of time debating fact not theory.

• landofaahs

Show me an example of any problem that democrats ever solved permanently.

• Anonymous

Can you give an example of what you consider to be a problem solved permanently?

• landofaahs

What is 2+2? Answer: 4. There. Problem solved forever.

• Anonymous

OK, now can you also give me an example of a problem “Republicans” solved permanently?

• landofaahs

You make my point. TRUE Republicans don’t believe they exist to solve your problems. The TRUE Republicans believe our founders produced the constitution that limits government involvement in our lives to the greatest extent possible except to protect property and life and rights to pursue success. It’s up to you to solve your problems, not me or anyone else. Thank You for finally GETTING IT.

• Anonymous

Every law passed attempts to ameliorate a situation. When the Constitution was created, there were 0 laws in the books (ie, beyond common law) but there was every intention to add many laws over the years. Each law, in theory, attempts to solve a problem. I don’t know where you got that “permanently” standard you wish to apply to democrats or really what it means (short of the simple but very useful math model that 1+1=2).

• Anonymous

There’s an inordinate number of leftist trolls on this subject line, have you noticed? The funny thing is, they think that if they accuse conservatives of being leftists, perhaps no one will listen to them. By the way, just one minor point for Republicans…how about slavery? The democrats fought to the death to maintain it. The Civil War decided it. But it was not democrats that did it. Neither was civil rights legislation. That was overwhelmingly voted in by Republicans, but it was not Kennedy or Johnson that even thought it was that important.
When Eisenhower ran for reelection in 1956, the Republican party endorsed the supreme court decision, Brown v. Board of Education. The democrats opposed it. It was Eisenhower and the Republican party that created the Civil Rights Commission. Richard Nixon fought to get the 1957 Civil Rights bill passed, and succeeded, but Lyndon B. Johnson removed the enforcement provisions, leaving it nearly meaningless. In 1960, Eisenhower introduced a new bill. All 18 votes against the bill were democrats. Neither Kennedy nor Johnson aggressively enforced civil rights. It was Richard Nixon who took up that fight. In 1964, Johnson backed the next step with the Civil Rights Act, but a far larger percentage of Republicans voted for it. In the senate, it was 82% compared to 66% of democrats. In the house, 80% of republicans voted for it and 63% of democrats did. Even Al Gore Sr. voted against it. Richard Nixon was the most ardent civil rights leader we had in history to that point.
Perhaps your leftist friend believes those fights were not permanent or meaningful, but regardless of how the black race has been overwhelmingly enticed since Franklin D. Roosevelt by handouts, the democrats have NEVER managed to “fix” any problem. Historically, while they champion themselves as the saviors of mankind, they were, in actuality, comprised of racist, establishment types until the last 30 years. And never has a group cared less about what the actual results of their supposed “generosity” are.

• Peter

You disappoint me Doc, you and I both know that the people who call themselves “Republicans” today would have called themselves “Democrats” back in the Civil War days, championing for states rights and such (over individual rights I might add). Also some Democrats from the 50’s to the 80’s, especially in the South, left the party when it started it’s shift toward towards the left of the political spectrum, especially after the signing of the Civil Rights Act and its increasing appeal to “minority” voters, and joined and form a large faction of the Republican party.

• Anonymous

Every law passed attempts to ameliorate a situation. When the Constitution was created, there were 0 laws in the books (ie, beyond common law) but there was every intention to add many laws over the years. Each law, in theory, attempts to solve a problem. I don’t know where you got that “permanently” standard you wish to apply to democrats or really what it means (short of the simple but very useful math model that 1+1=2).

Edit: sorry if this comment was posted twice. I didn’t see the first copy when I re-opened my browser but I think I know why.

• landofaahs

I don’t care where Jack made a mistake, that’s what the teacher is for. Besides, it’s clear you don’t know Jack.

• landofaahs

Critical thinking would be better done outside of math. Something like this: If a liberal utters a statement in the woods does it sound just as retarded in the woods as it does in civilization?

• Brie

Where do you get these ridiculous ideas? Have you actually read the standards?

• Jeff Peters

Have you? Which ones? What place? What curriculum? You have lumped a lot of things under one term because you are a union stooge that trolls message boards like this trying to get rid of any thing that would prevent them from turning math classes into pro-obama rants. Education is about education, not your political beliefs. Stop trying to destroy our education system with your trolling and liberal fascism.

• Anonymous

Now you’re even throwing the same accusations at someone else?! Oh my, it must be the product of your over 100 graduate credits from Hamburger U. You just look up a menu and follow it to the letter. Wow.

• Jeff Peters

Thanks anonymous troll. Way to waste your time saying stuff that will never be credible because you wont attach your real name to it.

• Anonymous

Boo hoo. You notice that you keep changing your claims? Now you’ve got a constitutional background and you believe that the 2nd amendment was written for militias? Try reading the Federalist Papers. Your theory was thrown out in District of Columbia v. Heller, but was also rejected multiple times in the twentieth century. Excellent reasoning. Truly, I’m in awe. Don’t tell me…you have a J.D. too with 100 credits.

• Jeff Peters

Your trolling has really fallen apart. Now you are just lashing out in desperation after you were exposed as a fraud. You are a sad individual. You couldn’t even understood what I wrote above – guns were necessary to be owned by individuals for the militia – even if it wasn’t a personal right they were still mandatory based on a clause that could not be refuted. US. v Miller, once of the most important and ignored cases on the 2nd amendment. It has never been overturned and was actually part of the justification for the current view.

• Anonymous

Yeah, that’s exactly what the supreme court relied on, that only militias can own weapons and it is mandatory. That case was cited by the MINORITY as a reason why the District of Columbia residents were NOT entitled to personally own or carry guns. The original appeals brief citing the case was by District court judge Karen L. Anderson and was considered by the full court as part of the briefs that were submitted in the Heller case.
The supreme court held in the majority opinion that the cases, United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542, Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 did not refute the individual rights interpretation. They also stated that United States v. Miller 307 U.S. 174, does NOT limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes. Funny how that’s exactly the opposite of what you claim the court decided. In other words, there is no MANDATORY requirement to own guns, guns are not limited to militias, and individuals have the right to keep and bear arms. How’s that political science stuff working out for you?

• Jeff Peters

What is your real name, Mr. Troll? I never said that only militias could have guns. You obviously can’t read. Go spout off your commie bs elsewhere.

• Anonymous

And yet, you still managed to interpret the case law incorrectly. Of course, that’s probably because of all those “political scientists” on the supreme court.
I don’t need your name to argue a point. The fact that you can’t do it is your own failing. You’re just wrong. It’s that simple. Tell you what. You come up with a moniker and enter the discussion on that basis. I won’t care. I can still defend my position without attempting to spam you or personal intimidation. You can’t.
By the way, thanks for calling me a “commie”. We’ve already established that your understanding of terminology is exactly the inverse of the word you’re using. We can just translate that to meaning I’m an ultraconservative.

• Jeff Peters

LMAO, are you high? You have to be, because your bs is outstanding. You have no clue what I wrote before, then spaz out when that is pointed out. Lay off the drugs.

• Anonymous

Unfortunately, drugs appear to be what has affected your reasoning process. That or quixotic delusions of grandeur. You can’t argue on the basis of fact, because the facts you chose are incorrect. I’m still laughing about your claims that political scientists are the “experts” on constitutional law. You really are a kick.

• Jeff Peters

Seems like popular opinion was against you. Your trolling failed. Better luck next time.

• Anonymous

It’s kind of funny how your two supporters have the exact writing style you do. And their posts were just FULL of facts…kind of like yours.

• Jeff Peters

Writing style? Really? Nice one, anonymous troll. They are real people with real names. What is yours again?

• Jeff Peters

• Jeff Peters

You still refuse to give your real identity, so your words are hilariously empty.

• Anonymous

And yet I can still make the argument and you can’t. Boo hoo for you.

• Desmond Smith

Looks like he put you in your place and you are still an anonymous troll who is whining about it. Go back to your union shop instead of harassing people online.

• Anonymous

You’re out of your mind. Choosing to embrace an accusation like that without the slightest attempt to read what I wrote defines you as a person as ignorant as Turner. But hey, if you think that support of Common Core as a federal law is what a conservative would do, by all means, head down that road. Nobody ever said that intelligence has to be functional for a person to vote and certainly doesn’t seem to be playing a part here.

• Joseph Taylor

Sure doesn’t seem like you can.

• Anonymous

Try to imagine how inferior I must feel having to go up against that treasure trove of fact you put out there to back up that one sentence characterization. Truly…you’ve wounded me.

• Jeff Peters

It doesn’t seem like anyone but you thinks you’ve done anything but babble incoherently like a whiny child.

• Anonymous

Seriously, you’re intellect is just WAY too dazzling. But what else could we expect from a “political scientist”?! It’s sheer “jenius” (yes, the spelling with the j was deliberate…think about it).

• Jeff Peters

You need to learn how to read. I never said I was a political scientist.

• Jeff Peters

“does NOT limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes.” Nice try. I stated that the 2nd Amendment mandated gun ownership based on Miller. You twisted it because you have no clue what you are talking about and probably use a script to generate nonsense. Miller was verified by the Supreme Court as negating any claim that guns were limited to militia use only by showing that militia use would require all men to own guns. Both arguments against gun ownership were defeated. If you weren’t a troll, you would have known it. However, it is not a coincidence that you know the extreme liberal view of the ruling that was proved to be false.

• Anonymous

Gee, I wish I could have your leftist legal acumen. After all, you think that political scientists are the authorities on constitutional law. You must get a real kick out of the laughter from your audience. The fact that I actually know the case and I don’t use terminology incorrectly OBVIOUSLY indicates I’m a leftist troll to you. But of course, YOU said it, so it HAS to be true.

• Jeff Peters

Leftist legal acumen? You mean rightest. You are the lefty, not I. Go troll over at Jezebel where you belong.

• Anonymous

Jeff, feel free to whine to yourself. You’re your own, biggest fan and supporter. Please feel free to post to the rest of your “supporters”. You can cry all you want about me. It won’t change the facts, but you can whine all you want.

• Jeff Peters

Wow, one can almost hear the tears of desperation as you wrote that. Hilarious.

• Jeff Peters

Your obsessive, immediate replies and continually hiding behind an anonymous account is telling. It is obvious that you are the leftist, not I. You need help. Maybe if you weren’t allowed to stay at home on welfare you would be forced to spend your time doing something other than lying and troublemaking online.

• Jeff Peters

And Constitutional Theory is a political science degree, not a law degree. JD is meaningless for the foundation of Constitutional belief. Constitutional law is not about why or what but about arguing how to stretch the words. Your ignorance is astounding.

• Anonymous

And yet, I know so much more than you. After all, it’s all those degreed political scientists that are arguing constitutional cases before the supreme court. After all, only political scientists could ever understand the applications of constitutional law. Everybody knows THAT. Truly…your genius inspires me. How could I ever question your knowledge base or intellect? I bask in the light of your brilliance.

• Anonymous

Where did you get that Core is about abolishing computers?

This was a simple problem that this so-called engineer goofed on (assuming he wasn’t already seeking attention).

It makes sense to show that 427 – 316 is not just something you input into an algorithm to produce 111. It makes sense to explain that 427 is a quantity composed of 4 sets of 100 along with 2 sets of 10 and 7 sets of unit value. That is how our efficient number system came about. This is old school. Nothing to do with “Core”.

• Anonymous

Maybe such an easy thing like subtracting one number from one number to get one number only takes three steps but when it gets into larger numbers it takes more steps. Like adding or subtracting long problems. The only way for someone who isn’t math-minded to get any sort of answer without getting frustrated is to split the problem in however many parts it needs to be and then add or subtract one number from another number.( I have personal experience in learning math this way LONG after trying to pass it in school. The longer way is easy)The dad person has a degree in science so he’s hardly typical since he use math every day in his job. Lots of adults are math-stupid or impatient so they never cared about sitting still long enough to get the right answer. Why not interview one of those people instead? Or do you really care so much about trying to get rid of Common Core so that the only way to do it is to talk to people who don’t like it for umpteen reasons? That’s called “having an agenda”.

• Warren

You do realize you sound like an idiot, right? Since when do Electronic engineers not use math? Any type of engineer is going to have a high understanding of math; it is required. I think anyone can see that the above problem is NOT the best way to understand this math problem.

• Anonymous

Read it again. I said he is hardly typical since he uses math every day in his job.Most parents who help their kids with math homework don’t know from engineering degrees or jobs.You’re the one who sounds idiootic

• Warren

Engineers DO use math every day! Can you not understand this?!

• Anonymous

Let me see if I can say this a different way. You probably don’t get the words that I’m using. “Hardly typical” probably aren’t words you see thrown together very often. They mean not common. So the sentence is saying the dad’s job isn’t very common for most people to do. So yes, he DOES use higher math every day. Most people who know math are usually store clerks or work as accountants or do payroll in businesses or carpentry or work in restaurants or the whole batch of other jobs that depend on numbers. So the dad who wrote the letter is not the usual person who uses math. Does that make more sense?

• Warren

Oh, pardon me. I misread your comment and thought you were saying that it was “hardly typical” for a electronic engineer to know HOW to do math. I was like, “WHAT!?” Well, a thousand pardons to you, good sir. I hope I shall not make that mistake again.

• Anonymous

You’re forgiven. The thing about Common Core is it’s lateral instead of linear. It’s a real tragedy hearing how people don’t like it because there MUST be loads of people in school who learn differently and would only be able to memorize instead of learn if things went back to the old way. Memorizing is no way to learn.

• Warren

Are you an advocate of CC? I’m just wondering. The problem I have with many of CC’s math exercises is that they are worded either wrong or very confusingly. I get that the “makers” of CC are trying to educate people by having them work through a word problem but PLEASE! Make it simple. The above problem has many problems some of which are: being vague, using an incorrect number line, (the span of 3 of the “tens” equals a supposed “hundred”.) and being useless. As the dad said, “You would be fired if you tried to do math normally this way.” We must remember, Result IS more important than process. At least in math it’s that way.

• Anonymous

Nope,not an advocate. Well, not a professional one anyway. I’m a fan of non-traditional learning to teach people who learn in “non-traditional” ways. All people can learn, it’s just a matter of teaching in a way the person’s mind works. Not everyone can learn from lectures and chalkboard and memorizing. Learning ‘non-traditionally” might be strange to anyone who can learn things just fine the old-fashioned way but that means kids don’t have to be labeled as “slow learners and go to classes for retarded kids just because she learns differently. The “slow learner” classes taught the traditional way but veeerrryy s-l-o-w-ly.Which is the same as telling someone things in a language they don’t speak and when that person doesn’t understand what’s being said they get the same thing repeated in a much louder tone of voice. Even family thinks the person is not quite bright. If I went through all that in “boomer” days that means if teaching goes back to linear there’ll be plenty of kids who would end up in those classes. Just because the world is getting more right-brained and older more traditional generations can’t handle it.

• Warren

The only problem with this is (if I’m not mistaken); It makes EVERYONE learn in this non-traditional way. There used to be a word for unconventional methods of teaching, home-school. Home-schooling is great because it allows both flexibility and catering to the child’s mindset. CC thinks everyone must approach it in a non-traditional way. Effectively, you could say we went from one extreme to the other; Traditional to non-traditional. What we need in public schools is a program that allows the parents to select different “types” of classes that caters to their child’s needs. Pretty much the way private school does it.

• Anonymous

There are all kinds of non-traditional teaching methods around nowadays. Not only home schooling and some private and charter schools. CC gets all the attention because it’s the flavor of the month. With so much talk about what goes on with that you would think other alternative learning doesn’t exist. There is at least one school here in the Chicago area doing what you are talking about. It has kids teaching themselves through online classes like Khan University and other online sites. The teacher is more of a guide instead of a lecturer and just goes around helping kids and passing out tests and worksheets sent out by the sites. Otherwise the kids are in charge of their own education. Kinda like tutoring but with computers.

• Warren

And that is a great way to do that! but, were are not really talking about teaching methods, more like the process in which an individual arrives at a conclusion. Does it make sense to use some weird way of doing math or the traditional. Math should stay with the traditional process but taught in creative ways that cater to the children. Which is why kids are taught 5 + 3 = 8 by counting apples but not getting rid of the formula. Newer is not always better and I find this new way to be awful.

• Anonymous

Teaching methods are the way to get students to get a right conclusion. Just like counting apples to teach math is a teaching method. Newer may not always be better but it’s always different. If every different method gets people to reach the same conclusion as they did when things were taught the old way(and every old way was new before people get used to it)then who’s to say it’s wrong. The world keeps changing so schools and life has to keep up with the way people get information.

• Warren

So, I’m curious. When one of these kids is then at his/her job and has to use some math, say an accountant. Then he will use the process he has been taught. If it’s this garbage that we see then it will take him 10 times the time it normally takes. In other words, he will fail at his job. Efficiency in a job is very important, as is the result. If you take 10 times longer than normal and also mess up because of all the steps added to the math problem, no employer will ever hire you. The way people get information has nothing to do with the process. The process is used to translate the information (you already have) into the result.

• Anonymous

Not necessarily. You’ve using linear logic to talk about how people would solve problems. Even if it’s Common Core the person would probably think in pictures, without having to translate everything into words before writing things down, and solve the problem in their heads. No matter how hard or long the problem is. Common Core and other alternative learning are all in right-brain picture style learning.

• Warren

The larger point is, the longer process yields the WRONG ANSWER

• Anonymous

The whole point of this question was to see if the student could explain WHY the answer was wrong.

• CylonesRUS

Righ question but not the right class this should discusses in a brain teaser class or played as a game.
Just KISS

• Matt Guempel

The answer was wrong because when you create more steps there are more opportunities to make mistakes

• Chaplain AJ

You are kidding right? I struggle very hard with math and was very close to finally understanding enough to take my compass. It is now done with this crap and I am at a total loss. I now scored so low I can not even qualify to enroll. This is the dumbest thing ever and makes no sense to me at all. Because of all the 10 step people I can not pass a freaking test. If you need a ton of steps great take them don’t require me to.

• Guardian

It is a way to teach to the dummies, even if it hurts those who aren’t.

• Anonymous

I have a friend whose husband in a a professor in the accounting department of a large university. If he doesn’t understand it, nobody will.

• CylonesRUS

God is not the author of confusion, so quess who that leaves? The math is simple.
Or for the godless, KISS

• Anonymous

I think you’re missing something. People like the dad in this story get the most upset with CC for the reasons you stated. However, I can tell you first hand (I have a 2nd grader and a foreign language degree) that the rest of us are also puzzled by the “new math(s)” in CC. There are loads of made up terms and goofy “tools” to solve things that children have been solving for generations. Yes, I know some people need to visualize things a certain way to really learn them, but CC takes contrived processes to a whole new level.

I promise you, if we don’t get rid of CC, you will see adults drawing out “Number Lines” and little triangles with numbers in the corners, just to solve simple problems.
CC is designed to slow everyone down so that public schools can regain the appearance of doing well.
No, I can’t prove that; you just have to look at the facts before you.

• landofaahs

2+1=3. 4+5=9. I can destroy your premise if you disagree, but you can’t destroy the truth of mine.

• CylonesRUS

What does truth matter, if all are blind to it?

• Anonymous

Whose fault is it that the dad doesn’t see the obvious mistake? Not Common Core.

Glenn is right about a lot of things but Common Core isn’t one of them. They are just standards…teachers can teach them any way they like. Standards only specify outcomes.

I used to really trust Glenn, but he is so wrong about this that it has made me start to doubt his other positions as well. I say this as a teacher of 25 years experience. There are battles that need to be fought in education, but Common Core isn’t one of them. We just make ourselves look silly when we unquestioningly repeat demonstrable untruths such as the guy I spoke with recently who told me CC only allows “communism” as the correct answer to the question “Which economic system is best?” Umm.. no it doesn’t. There aren’t CC standards for economics because the CC only addresses math and reading/writing.

• Anonymous

You will get it one of these days, but it may be too late.. the goal of Common Core is intrusion with the ultimate goal of control. Just like Obamacare. You may like that also.

• memasmuffn

A new scale for monitoring students attitudes to learning mathematics and technology
CHECK IT OUT! If you read about this Mathematics and Technology Attitudes Scale and still want to be naieve to the fact that our schools are analizing our children so be it…This is just the beginning of what they have in mind.

• Anonymous

“There aren’t CC standards for economics because the CC only addresses math and reading/writing.”

You should know, economics are centered around mathematics, reading, and writing…

• Anonymous

Yes, but your response completely ignores my larger point, which is that there are people telling this guy the demonstrable lie that CC explicitly tests economics.

Opinions based on disinformation, no matter how strongly held only make us look stupid. Once someone reels off a whackjob comment like that, every other word in meaningless. It’s the same as with the people who claimed GWB bombed the levees in NOLA. Do you care about any of their other ideas? I certainly don’t.

• Anonymous

I don’t think you are right. CC specifies HOW to do the math. My grandson has to show how he got the answer and if it isn’t this convoluted method, the answer, even if correct is WRONG. Explain, Spraghnum, how you came to the conclusion that CC doesn’t prescribe methodology.

• Anonymous

I came to that conclusion because CC doesn’t supply instructional materials. Somebody else made this worksheet and in the case of your grandson somebody else made the dumb decision to penalize correct answers.

The standards don’t set the grading policies of individual teachers. They also don’t cause cancer, although I suspect someone will come along shortly and blame then for that as well.

Pick your battles folks. We have bigger fish to fry.

• Fliptop

When I was in elementary school almost 30 years ago, I had to show my work or I got the problem wrong regardless of my answer being right or wrong. I majored in math in college and I know that there are issues with CC, but I don’t believe this is one of them. This is not a math problem, it is problem solving and communications problem. My children are in school, in the advance math classes, and I have not seen anything like this before, so I can’t say where the worksheet came from but to me it is trying to teach the children to determine what happened and properly explain their theory of what went wrong.

• Anonymous

Forgive me but I’m trying to understand your comments. They are so convoluted that I thought you were talking about economics.

“We just make ourselves look silly when we unquestioningly repeat demonstrable untruths such as the guy I spoke with recently who told me CC only allows “communism” as the correct answer to the question “Which economic system is best?””

It sounds like this guy (that you are speaking of) was complaining that CC gives children the impression that communism is a better economics system via through the reading/writing curriculum. It sounds to me that he WASN’T saying that ‘CC teaches economics’.

• Anonymous

Did you teach for 25 years in public schools? If so, you’re probably a member of the union and part of the systemic problem. There’s a reason so-called educators can’t get their hands on children early enough for their liking and Common Core standards are part of the massive indoctrination program. Questioning authority isn’t silly. You cite one mistaken man, but surely you understand that social programming can be part of any reading/writing curriculum! Wake up! You’re a perfect example of why so many parents are seeking alternatives to government education!

• Anonymous

Nice assumptions based on no data. You have as much evidence I belong to the union (I don’t) as I have evidence that you are engaged to a goat. I, however, didn’t leap to that assumption.

Math problems do not equal indoctrination. You are as bad as Al Sharpton in looking for something to be outraged by. Math standards aren’t social programming.

• CylonesRUS

Anything you claim to be and what organization you belong to is suspect, but your words do reveal who you align yourself with, i.e., the progressive and teacher union movements

• Anonymous

Numerical entities’ relationship with quantity should be simple.
Common Core does not embrace simple nor efficiency. Period.

• Anonymous

So you advocate “dumbing down” math?

• Warren

No, he advocates math that works.

• Anonymous

My daughter was taught an entirely different way to divide, it was wrong then and it is wrong now. The old math is faster, easier, and better. Common Core is not a responsible program and should be eliminated. Let’s take history for example. Their books do not have accurate facts. Once again, Common Core is wrong. Stupid is stupid and Common Core is stupid. Also, making fun of an electrical engineer who has far more advanced math than most people here is really not the way to go. And, by the way, Common Core affects every aspect of education.

• Anonymous

There is no such thing as a Common Core history book. It is you who does not have accurate facts if you believe there are Common Core standards for history.

• Chaplain AJ

Not sure where you teach at but our school requires learning this nonsense for ISTEP. It Confused my son so much he went from honor roll to all A’s and one D in math. The teacher even told us she was sorry but was now forced to teach this form of math. After a tutor and exemption his grades are honor roll again. With out that awful math lesson.

• Anonymous

If they are just “standards”, why the shove to create aligned assessments and curriculum? You need to educate yourself instead of spewing the talking points. I don’t know where you are from (and you may even be a paid troll) but moagainstcommoncore.com has the information you apparently need because you are completely wrong.

• Anonymous

I posted a long response but it seems to have been deleted. Very disappointing…

• Anonymous

I’ve been trying to make sense of the problem and the diagram… thingy.
I think I know the answer.

I will assume that you create a line that represents the “big” number (427). You basically will work the problem from right to left. Since you are subtracting (starting with the “hundreds place” in this case), you will subtract 3. You would then make 3 dots down the line thingy that would represent the subtraction of an hundred (100). 3 dots = 300. You would then have to label the spaces between these dots to show how much the dots are in difference. Perhaps this step can be skipped simply because the dots are labeled by their sum after each subtraction. I would then assume that you then proceed in this fashion with the “tens” place and then the “ones” place.

I believe the answer is that Jack forgot to subtract from the “tens” place.

Needless to say this is over-complicating the math problem.

• Anonymous

I believe this was once sold by Bill Gates as a way to even the field, that blacks and Hispanics were too far behind whites and Asians and this was a way that could be used to help those minorities catch up. LOL, what a disaster this will be for minorities.

• Anonymous

no, you’re right. its obvious if you look at the problem that what they are testing is NOT the students ability to get the answer but to analyse the problem, determine the methodology and to see how the methodology was used incorrectly. Its NOT a math problem, it clearly says “find the error” and not “find the answer.” The father in this case is making a common mistake that students often make, which is… not reading the question. Congrats to you for being one of the only ones here to see past the groupthink and actually try to figure something out on your own.

• Anonymous

Thank you. But unfortunately I think this exercise is akin to proof-reading. They want the kids to understand it despite the technique being bulky and cumbersome.

• Aubrey

Because I have taken the time to figure out what common core math is all about, I “get” this math problem. However, I am of the opinion this is not a problem for basic math…and more importantly, it is not for first or second graders. Children this age take everything si literally that trying to teach them some of these concepts is really far beyond their maturity level. I believe this curriculum is going to cause many students to hate school from a very young age.

My grandson is extremely intelligent, but this curriculum is so crazy he is failing kindergarten. KINDERGARTEN. That’s beyond belief to me. When I work with him, he does fine…recognizes his letters, reads just fine, does his math well, etc. But he is failing kindergarten. Common core is ruining school.

• brandon thompson

That’s when I pull him from class and teach him myself. Did that with three of my own kids and their in collage now. ALL finished early and went to college a year early. Oh did that piss the school off.

• Aubrey

If I had that option I would. He lives with his POS mother (which is probably a contributing factor to him failing) and we only get to see him every other weekend. We just filed for custody though. Lawyer has been telling us to wait, we didn’t have enough ammunition against her until now. I hate that it took him failing school to get enough ammunition to get custody, but that’s just another example of how the leftist courts work. (She’s on welfare, food stamps, says she’s disabled, so they feel sorry for her. None of that is an excuse to give my grandchild a bad home. In fact her being home all the time gives her the time to actually work with him, but she’s too self absorbed.

Sorry…that was a rant.

• Anonymous

Most of us will stick to the math that we learned in the good old days. You know, the way you get the right answer quickly and efficiently.

• Chris Carr

There is no 10s place on that line. 3 x 100 and 6 x 1. To get to the final result one would still have to subtract 10 from the number on the left. I guess that the line in the exhibit must’ve been “drawn by” rather than being “used by” Jack, but the wording of the question doesn’t make that clear.

• Anonymous

Ya, the wording really isn’t all that clear. I personally had to assume that Jack had “drawn” the line that was presented.

I bet another one is 5 + 5 = Starfish. The left is doing this so they can dumb down Children. After all we all know the only people who vote liberal are people who cannot think for themselves.

• Anonymous

The ABACUS is a better/faster method than this junk.

• Matt

The abacus is actually pretty awesome. I’ve seen Japanese people do very complex calculations amazingly quickly with their version of the abacus. I would have absolutely no problem with abacus calculation being taught in schools (as it is in Japan).

• Chris Stratford

In Japan in the 80’s you could buy a Casio elsi calculator with an abacus built into the case, because someone on an abacus (soroban in Japanese) can actually add and subtract faster than the calculator.
http://retrocalculators.com/digicus.htm
They subtract using nines complement math, because that makes the soroban easier to use, but this common core crap is pointless…

• Anonymous

There was something similar to this about 40 yrs ago when my kids were in school.Told the teachers then and I will say now simple addition,subtraction and memorization of multiplication tables is the only way to teach youngsters math.Save the complicated stuff when they advance.

• CylonesRUS

Modern Math, majic squares, adding across, it was a bad idea gone worst.

• Cheryl

It makes me wonder how many of our teachers are having to go back to college just to learn how to teach this Common Core stuff. It is absolutely crazy!!!! I am so glad that I homeschool my kids because then I can teach them how I want them to learn!!!

• Jeff Peters

Numberlines have been around for decades.There is nothing “new” being taught. Most of the curriculum will be the same. It is just an emphasis.

• Lindsay Smith

The ONLY reason some other computation method should be used is if the student doesn’t understand the old fashioned way of computation!

• Deb Evans-Smeddal

Indiana just announced today that it was dumping the common core curriculum. Thank heaven for common sense above common dumbing down of our kids.

• Tom Musso

Yeah baby! Proud to be a Hoosier!

• landofaahs

I’m not a Hoosier fan normally, but I am now.

• davspa

Maybe other states will follow suit

• Anonymous

NO IT DIDN’T — YOU NEED TO READ THE BILL! IT UPHOLDS ALL FEDERAL EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS. THEY ARE “REBRANDING” COMMON CORE BECAUSE WE HATE IT!

• AJ Brant

Read the story in The Elkhart Truth.ALL it amounted to was dropping the common core name.None of the standards changed and quite possibly none of the overcomplicication.

• Anonymous

Overcomplicication? Perhaps we need higher education standards.

• Carter Hooks

The standards for common core math are much lower in certain areas, but this father’s argument is not valid. The background or meat of this question is asking students to recognize the mistake made, not find the answer to the problem. Understanding mistakes is one step toward understanding the concept which is very important. Anyone can follow steps. It is the conceptual knowledge that allows to fully understand topics.

• Kevin Lietz

Disregard my last. I read through it again.

• Greg Cooper

i would think the mistake would be using the formula in the first place

• momma2mingbu

Yep. All the student had to do was point out that Jack forgot the 10’s when using his numberline to count back. (And for our visual learners, tools like numberlines are VERY appropriate, useful and important as they learn these basic math concepts!) Dad (with all his fancy degrees) was evidently not bright enough to figure that out.

• Guest

Actually, you are wrong. First, ‘Jack’ subtracted 2 10’s instead of just 1. Then, instead of going to the ones since the 10’s were finished, ‘Jack’ continued with 10’s instead of switching to the ones column.

• Guest

Actually, forgetting the 10’s column still wound not make this right, there is a bit more to it and as I see it, more than one answer. ‘Jack’ subtracted wrong, forgot to subtract by 1’s instead 10’s, etc. To make the answer physically right, there needs to be one more dot.

• Traci Holland

Wow you are not as smart as you think you are! The number line is completely wrong after counting back the 3 100’s. It is not a matter of leaving anything out. The next number that was counted removed 2 10’s and everything went downhill from there. If the problem were shown correctly, Jack could’ve easily been written a letter with the number line corrected to show: 427 – 3 hundreds, starting at 427, count back 327, 227, 127. Then after 127 we would remove 1 ten so the next number would be 117, then count backwards by ones 6 more times…starting at 117, count back 116, 115, 114, 113, 112, 111. The problem take many steps to show you have an understanding of counting backwards by 1’s, 10’s, and 100’s to answer a simple subtraction problem as pointed out by the father. It is unfortunate that unless you understand all these concepts at once, you will get the problem wrong and feel like you are stupid. This is what is wrong with kids today, and why they are frustrated, stressed out, and don’t love school. God help us all!

• Bill

Bull

• kimber.45 ACP

Thank you. My goodness, to understand concepts of numeration one needs varied and multiple approaches. It’s too bad the tea party fringe is making hay out of a technique or skillset that should be learned.

• momma2mingbu

Except no where does is say the words “common core” in the bill the Governor signed. It does, however, say that Indiana’s standards must be college and career ready, must allow IN to keep our ESEA waiver, and must prepare our students for the ACT & SAT (which are currently being aligned to the CCSS). So YAY! A victory for those of us who DO support the CCSS…..we’re just getting it “rebranded” under another name.

• Watch it

A different view from experience…..
Now being implemented in 45 of 50 states, Common Core standards are already in use — and in at least one state, those results are causing panic.

Carol Burris, a high school principal on Long Island, NY, has been a first-hand witness to Common Core and its implementation into her schools. The Empire State’s “2013 Principal of the Year” has written extensively about what she calls a “flawed Core implementation.”

Burris writes that when the Common Core curriculum was introduced and promoted in 2009 “creators said unequivocally that principles of equity would be at the center of its eventual implementation.”

Burris initially applauded, believing educational standards would be raised “through a rich curriculum and equitable teaching practices (that) states could voluntarily adopt.”

But five years later, Burris is now writing against Common Core, exposing what she calls “the growing discontent by students, parents, unions and legislators” who are complaining about a myriad of issues — including the lack of equality and the fact that academic standards are not being raised.

First-year scores from Common Core testing in New York “dropped like a stone – and achievement gaps dramatically widened,” according to Burris. The following year scores slipped even further and achievement gaps continued to widen.

But it’s actually far worse than that.

Burris also looked at racial indicators. The percentage of black students who scored “Below Standard” in third-grade English increased “from 15.5 percent to a shocking 50 percent post-Common Core implementation. In seventh-grade math, black students labeled “Below Standard” jumped “from 16.5 percent to a staggering 70 percent.” Evidence also showed that 75 to 84 percent of students battling disabilities fell into the “Below Standard” range too.

Burris points out that if Common Core tests scores were used in New York State’s “college-ready” scores that students need for graduation, the state’s “four-year graduation rate would have plummeted to 35 percent, with even worse outcomes for students with disabilities (five percent), as well as black (12 percent), Latino (16 percent) and English-language learners (seven percent).”

Even with such abysmal results in New York, the Obama administration continues using taxpayer dollars like a carrot to bribe states into adopting these standards.

• Anonymous

• Jay Jackson

Really?

• Cincolo

Lucky you! We’re stuck with it. My daughter hates it, and I hate having to waste my time looking up these ridiculous methods.

• rsqme1

why do problems go from right to left when English and Latin base is Left to Right. let’s see what “picked on” group goes R-L?

• Leo Nelson

It’s called a number line. bigger numbers to the right. i.e. -1_0_1

I have many reasons to dislike the curriculum choices, and methods but this is basic elementary math.

• Anonymous

It’s not that simple. In the problem, you’ll note that there is no defined origin point, so we don’t know if this is a simple X-plane coordinate. That’s what makes it so difficult to comprehend in a straightforward manner. It addresses the methodology, not an answer. The problem with that approach is that, without knowing the given technique, what is actually very straightforward is now so convoluted as to constitute gibberish to those not formerly initiated.

• Jason Grant

The only problem I see is that the line for them to subtract 10 is very close in length to the line to subtract 1. So Jack accidentally missed subtracting 10. The line has a poor scale, but does make it clear where it starts and stops.

• Chris Lowe

Cartesian geometry says that numbers get bigger as you move right… simple as that.

• Anonymous

This is an illustration of sets, not a sequential numerical progression. Is it also your opinion that this method would spark agreement amongst engineers? I’m confused that you seemed to be saying previously you are a graphic artist, but you seem to be saying you’re an engineer as well. What kind of a team are you a part of that merges these two distinct careers? I’m not certain that I’m understanding your background correctly.

• Chris Lowe

i am a technical illustrator. i work directly with engineers to explain to others why they did what they did. there is a whole segment of the population that needs to understand why an engineer does what they do. so that you lay people can play your DVDs and operate your iPhones.

• Anonymous

So wouldn’t you say that the problem lies not with the mathematics and the engineers, but in the very subjective world of communications? Is this how you would choose to illustrate a math problem graphically so that the majority would understand it? I would wager that someone with your background could come up with a far better illustration that almost anyone could understand rather than the methodology chosen by the common core group.
I have seen this push before in my home state of Washington. They used to use a test called the Washington State Learning Standards (WASL). The proponents of WASL endlessly told both parents and school boards that the ridiculously convoluted reasoning that they used on math problems that deemphasized correct answers was perfectly designed as a predictive strategy for which students were prepared for both college and careers. Unfortunately, when statisticians independently evaluated the methodology and compared it against such tests as the Iowa Test of Basic Skills (ITBS), it was found that they were not testing what they thought they were.
Rationally, all they had to do was ask businesses to review the methods and they would have clearly shown the lunacy of a test that accepts nearly any answer so long as the reviewer agreed with the chosen methodology. They never asked, but they advertised the test as a means to ensure better employees through improved reasoning ability. It did just the opposite.
As a business owner, I’m completely disinterested in my employees methodologies that they individually choose to deliver what I require on time and correctly, excepting that the methods must be ethical and not complicate the delivery of care at any of the other specialty points in my practices (I’m a doctor). The bottom line is that the answer is FAR more important, but public schools over the last 15 years or so keep trying to move to a centralized system more reminiscent of the old Soviet Union’s methods. It ensures conformity, but fails to deliver quality or quantity.

• Chris Lowe

1.i didn’t say that there was a problem with the way this particular problem was worded or designed. i did have a problem with the dad that didn’t understand why it was being asked. i have children. 1 that is about the age of the kid in this situation. i would not have responded in this way. and i don’t understand the short sighted aspect of this father.

2.communication is kind of the problem, but not really. i can see in the past that there are particular people in this world that have a knack for dealing this way with people. i also know that in the future we as a society will need more people that understand the needed aptitudes to deal. this is a learned trait too and as so needs to be taught.

3.the answer is not convoluted. it can be easily stated…

it should read something like this:

dear student,
to answer the above problem you started out correctly by subtracting 3 moves on the number line of 100 and and 6 moves on the number line of 1 each but you didn’t account for the 1 move of 10 spaces as in the tens place. you could have also accounted for this short coming with 10 moves of 1…

4. i mostly deal with teaching people how to fix helicopters or build fairly complex machines. the people that i design for are high-school grads. recently i have been tasked to provide teachers with illustrations to teach people to fly aircraft… so there is a little bit that these people need to know before i get to them. this is relevant too. a child must have a certain point of reference to understand more complicated things. they must understand 1 dimensions before they go into 2 and 3 dimensions.

5. in a little more jerky type reaction though. i do not trust anything that comes out of washington state. any place that doesn’t understand that sucking on anything that is burning and producing smoke is bad for you… then i have no reason to take what you have to say seriously.

6. basic skills is just that. basic.

7. i don’t understand the rational statement that you wrote. there isn’t anything in the original problem that says that it is objectively graded. as any high school calculus student will tell you, the process is more important than the answer. programmers will tell you the same thing. it would be easy to program a computer with tables of what is supposed to be the right answers, but to accurately key in correct mathematics is the key to all kinds of products.

8. i completely disagree. what advertising? in the case of this problem it is about understanding the process. there is an improvement in reasoning if you can find what they are talking about yes but the bigger accomplishment is the ability to work together.

9. as a business owner you should understand that you will be made accountable for your employees actions. the point of view of the above father is that the student doesn’t need to know why something is, just that it is and he shouldn’t have to explain why you made the decision that he made. if as a doctor you understand that you can cure something but it is going to take destroying something else then by your logic it is a no brainer… i am reminded of the television show “M.A.S.H.” there was a story line in which one of the surgical doctors was in surgery with a GI and was confronted by a decision…. save the soldiers arm or his leg. he chose to save his leg and amputate the arm. he reasoned that waking was the most important aspect of life… what he didn’t know was that the GI was a concert pianist… something to think about when you think that you understand that the most important things to one person is that simple to another.

10. by far… the answer isn’t the most important. the journey is

11. unless you have been participating in the educational system then you have no idea in which way the system is going. i have. and i think it is going in the opposite direction.

• Anonymous

Chris, while I respect your point of view, you make some pretty far fetched assumptions about what people do or do not know. You also seem to believe that because you illustrate other people’s work that you are an educator. That doesn’t qualify. I actually do teach. I’m also a molecular biologist and yes, I understand very well what process means. But you speak like an artist, not a scientist.

• Anonymous

…and so who, officially, will give logical explanation of this?

• Fat Lip

HOMESCHOOL
Your children are a gift why let stupid spoil it for them ?

• goldenhawk

I always warn that homeschoolers will be put to a disadvantage when it comes time for SAT testing. They will fail the test because they won’t have learned the new “methods” for answering the questions.

• Fat Lip

I appreciate the concern we haven’t a worry we are all over the lie being stuffed down the children’s throats these days and we get nothing but great complements everywhere we go .
My son is 17 he is more educated than most junior’s in college and is one heck of a musician with all theory included ‘
Thank you for the response I really appreciate you taking your time to respond . God bless you.

• Jen

I just want to chime in and say that I got a 1300 on the SAT, and I was homeschooled. The only thing with the SAT and ACT is that homeschoolers will need to be certain to spend a few weeks or so being taught to the test before taking it… instead of spending their entire schooling doing it.

• Fat Lip

Thank you so much sweetheart its responses like yours that make us know we made the right decision .
May God bless you and yours in all you do .Truly from the bottom of my heart I thank you !!!!

• Anonymous

Glad Jen did well but my own 2 daughters were public schooled in Asheville,NC and one is finishing her PhD this spring and the other is a freshman in medical school. Good education can come from many sources but the most important value especially in the early years of education is much parental involvement –and to never stop the involvement process all of the years.

• Fat Lip

Your point is well taken but I notice you used the word WERE you see that means they WERE in the system .
That system is not what the content of this discussion it is about.
You and I must be about the same age due to the age of your children i’m very happy your children are well educated but the times are changing and its our grandchildren that will be destroyed by this .
As far as parental involvement goes Deb that’s my whole point we in this home do homeschool my son is 17 and already is a music teacher . right here at home.
Thank you for the response God bless

• we won

The sat has changed you will actually need to know stuff now lol dum dums

• Jeff Gatlin

Really? You have to know stuff? Wow. Such insightful reasoning. Of course, you didn’t have to know anything before, did you? Common Core is not about education, it’s about indoctrination. Critical thinking is a learned skill that should be taught, however, using a number line and asking the student to find the error is not teaching critical thinking. I have never used or been taught that number line method and am glad for that. You can post all you want, but your inane, juvenile, and inappropriate responses tell everyone what you really are. A left-wing low-information Troll.

• Anonymous

the more methods to learning math and the reasoning behind the processes the better the math student. I say these should be taught together not separately so that students see the building blocks required and why they reach the results they do whether by rote memorization or number lines. As the mother of a medical student and a PhD student and the daughter of a math department head, I have some background.

• Peter

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff … so disappointing! The answer to the question is not to use the number line to solve the problem, but to figure out what Jack did right and what he did wrong in his “response” to the problem presented to him. The child answering this problem would have to figure out what the correct answer to the math problem is, identify the flaw in Jack’s method of arriving at the answer while identifying what he did correctly and then express this coherently in written format. Remembering that this is a 2nd grade question, I think this qualifies as the beginning of teaching students to think critically.

• Anonymous

My homeschooler is 13, in 9th grade AND in college. He will graduate high school with 60 credit hours of college. I think that will save him!

• Anonymous

It sounds like you’ve done a great job. Do you do the teaching yourself or are you part of a homeschool consortium, or does your son participate in some classes at school? I homeschooled one of my children and at the end, we found he actually went much further on some subjects than was required in public school, even in spite of his learning disabilities. I’ve seen many different methods, but it seems like your program is exceptional.

• Jeff Peters

There are many people with fake bachelors. It is not what your class number is but what you learn. Boasting about “being in college” when your student probably doesn’t understand is a problem.

• Anonymous

You just keep digging this hole deeper. Apparently, her child has a more advanced understanding of education than you do. She didn’t claim that he has a bachelor’s degree, but of course, that would take reading skills to understand. Or is it jealousy that a ninth grader has finished more college credits than you?

• Jeff Peters

“I have a bachelor of science degree in electronics” right there in the picture. Stop trolling, slkgej6.

• Anonymous

Wow, you’re a real genius. I have an M.D. and a PhD. in molecular biology. See, I can do it too, only I actually completed my degrees. Perhaps if you could enliven your imagination just a bit and stopped spouting the same ridiculous reply you’d be able to think beyond the end of your nose. So far, what I’ve seen is a pathetically misanthropic malcontent repeating the same thing over and over again to multiple people. Of course, in your world, maybe those are magical words that vanquish all foes. That’s so much better than an actual education!

• Jeff Peters

And for your information, anonymous troll, my identity can be looked up – you will see that I have taken 173 under graduate credits and over 100 graduate level credits. I have also received multiple graduate level degrees.

• liv

Going to college doesn’t necessarily mean you have an advanced understanding of education…

• George Lackerdas

whoa, I think mr. Golden hawk here just nailed the whole design purpose behind common core. They have changed the game and rules, so IF you never learn the new game and new rules there is NO WAY you can compete or even contend in THEIR idea of the new market place. It doesn’t matter that their model won’t work, the important part is they are trying to breed out home schoolers, thereby destroying the ultimate threat to ALL public school unions.

• Jenn

AMEN TO HOMESCHOOLING…IT ROCKS!!!

• we won

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

• Anonymous

Seriously. I’m in awe of your intellect. If only we all could think at the level of a leftist who can’t even escape “textspeak” in the punctuation of their chosen moniker. Your factual reasoning, the very depth of your thought process, your command of fact…I wish I hadn’t wasted those twelve years of college when I could have skipped all that to be just like you.

• Fat Lip

Hey won a turd
I no that song it was AIR SUPPLY .
The next verse is tweedy la do dim whit.

• Ray S

This does not surprise me. Sort of goes with how these kids can’t read or write in cursive anymore and “spll lke dis.”

• Anonymous

Common Core math is not about using math as a tool to logically encompass the phenomenae observed in the world around us. Instead, it tests a student’s ability to memorize a process. That process has little to do with real world applications.

The teachers would have to be complete fools to believe that this methodology could possibly yield the results necessary to make the intuitive leap to functional applicability. In such a system, teachers must spend all their time teaching the children strategy, NOT applicability.

I own several businesses and it is obvious to me that young job applicants, because of the overwhelming emphasis schools place on process over results, many of them feel that if they simply mire themselves in the process of their job assignment, they should be rewarded for what they consider work ethic. That “work ethic” costs me money. I’m interested in results; honestly obtained and timely. There are many that I’ve been forced to let go because they simply cannot comprehend the concept of “work smart, not hard”.

Common Core produces students that simply have no preparation for the world outside of their indoctrinated classrooms.

• American

Bam!

• Mike Benton

It might make sense to use it to show why simple arithmetic rules work, like borrowing from the left. But aside from that it is shear nonsense. when I was teaching computers I used a trick to illustrate how binary numbers work, but once was enough.

• Brie

But kids aren’t understanding regrouping (that’s what we’ve called borrowing for the last 10 years at least… You don’t borrow because to borrow means you will give back at some point…) Any way, let me give you an example. In 6th grade, I still have student who will take a problem like 15-8, cross out the one and put it back next to the 5. They have no idea what they are doing or why they are doing it. They only know that they were told to do that when the number below was bigger than the number on top… If you were teaching binary, you had students that understood at minimum the concept of base 10. This strategy is for what… 2nd graders? Maybe 3rd? By the time they get to me, yes, they will be using the standard algorithm

• Cheryl

I don’t know how ‘old’ you are, however I learned the take away method in the 70’s and find that it still works for me. And when my son who is now 18 and has failed most math classes miserably due to CORE CURRICULUM MATH non-sense I find it worthless. The old standards worked for my parents and myself; who by the way can actually, balance a check book and count out change with out a calculator, which is more than I can say for the children now-a-days.

• George Branchaud

I was born in ’63, so my education was also in the ’70s. My mom couldn’t understand why it was so complicated, and her dad read it and laughed out loud. He showed me the “old school” way, which was easier so I used it. The teacher saw what I did and told me to go ahead and do it whatever way I wanted as long as I got it right. I wonder if any Common Core teacher would say something so bold.

• Anonymous

My mother is from Europe and I wish i would have used her old school way instead of saying this is how we learned it in school today…Her not being from the States didnt want to change it thinking it might be better.. But thinking back it was kinda weird but cool to see her use her method to solve my math to double check my homework.

• Anonymous

What is the saying, Sometimes the ‘old ways’ are better comes to mind. As a Gerontology major, and having worked with the elderly for 20 years one realizes that sometimes somethings can change for the better and others things should not. Math is one of those things that should be taught as simply as possible, not over explained and over-processed. This is why so many of the children today don’t understand they are already stressed out from the over-processed, over-stressed world they live in.

• Jeff Peters

The problem in the work sheet use to be done with blocks to teach place values, and those blocks go back to when your parents were in school.

• Cheryl Rose

I am a “Common Core teacher” and yes, we would say something so bold EVERY DAY because one of the goals of the Common Core is for students to demonstrate to students that their are multiple strategies for solving problems. If you were in a math classroom today, your teacher would ask you to explain your strategy to the whole class so that other students could try it as well because it might be a method that they would prefer to use…

• His_Brother

Common core is essential. However, it’s not the teacher’s fault when push comes to shove from the districts that are being lobbied against and threatened by “results” or “cuts”. Politics rule our school system, our communities, our nation. You should read my reply/post to slkgej6 for my complete support.

• Travis Keller

@ Cheryl, this may be how it is in YOUR classroom but not how it is everywhere. In fact I CHALLENGE your reply and ask you that as a ‘ “Common Core teacher” ‘, what OTHER methods do you teach? You state it is for students to demonstrate *there are multiple strategies for solving problems and that ‘your’ teacher would ask you to explain your strategy so other students could try it. In classrooms across America, Common Core is the ONLY method taught! While there are some students that are analytic enough to figure out different methods, most are not…hence the whole concept of BEING TAUGHT! If you only TEACH one method, then the ONE method will prevail.

I TRY to help my kids as best I can. That said, MY methods are not the same as they are taught in class. This creates a paradox. If I can’t figure out via the method they are taught, I show them how I find the answer. Then when they present the answer using my method it is WRONG cause they are not using the method being taught. Sure the answer is correct but they have to “show their work” and the methodology is wrong.
Your reply indicates that in the math classroom today, your teacher would ask you to explain your strategy to the whole class. Here again I call you out. As a teacher, exactly how much time do you have to spend on one subject? How much time can you realistically give to a Second Grader to explain their strategy?…and do you give that same time to every student that has a different strategy? Sure you may use examples in teaching but you make it sound as if something other than common core is being taught. This is not the case. Let’s face it, in most cases, the student’s work completed is simply handed in to be graded or actively graded during class without the teacher seeing it first. In either case, discussing a different strategy is an unlikely event due to not seeing or recognizing one or simply due to the constraint of time. If you were to open up a discussion of different strategies to the various problems presented, you would easily spend the entire day doing nothing else…especially at the higher grade levels.
My challenge to Common Core Math, is how does this merge with higher level mathematics? Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry, Calculus, Physics….HOW does Common Core work here? Imagine Einstein attempting to use Common Core to come up with the Theory of Relativity. After all, everything is “relative”…or is it?

• Jeff Peters

He failed math because he failed math. Get a tutor. Don’t blame the easy curriculum for your failures.

• Anonymous

Evidently you didn’t finish your teaching certificate so you need to go back to school as well young man

• Jeff Peters

How would you know? It is obvious that you never actually looked.

• Anonymous

you son can’t possibly have failed all of his math courses at 18 because of common core. it was only implemented within the last 2 years. your kid has had 12 years of school. the “kids” now-a-days who can’t make change without a calculator or balance checkbooks, by which i assume you mean “kids” between 16-18 who WORK and would HAVE a checking account, didn’t learn with common core standards either. but you go ahead and keep trying to peddle that b.s., i am sure you’ll find some believers…

• Anonymous

Yeah the school district were in is pretty bad, even before Common Core was presented. Heck, back in 1989 when I graduated I know that at least a quarter of my graduating class could not read at the 12th grade level, write or do basic math. You cannot tell that this Common Core b.s. has made things better as my son comes home and tells me he is correcting his own teachers in spelling, and history lessons…we’ve dumbed down the schools with this Common Core stuff.

• Peter

hey Einstein, the teachers who are teaching your kid did not go to school under Common Core! You FAIL!

• Cheryl Rose

Actually, common core has only been implemented in high schools for the past year in only some locations. Your son’s math failure is not due to common core.

• His_Brother

Core curriculum is an idea, like “democracy”. It has a meaning, and a purpose, but only if it is followed. Politics rule the school districts. Core curriculum isn’t the problem; it’s artificial and not followed.

• Anonymous

He did (all) his homework, got extra help.. and maybe you got him a tutor? and still failed?

bummer

• Peter

Common core was introduced in 2010, what excuse do you have for your son for all those prior years of failing math class?

• Anonymous

Seriously…your ability to master kindergarten level mathematics is stunning. Oh, that you could be a teacher to the world so we could all bask in your divine enlightenment. It’s sheer genius.

• Jeff Peters

This comes from the standard place value subtraction taught for a very long time. They use to use blocks to show children how this worked.

• Anonymous

Wow are you hiring? You might say I know of teachers who want out!!

• Anonymous

Not at the moment! Right now, we’re dealing with abusive federal and state corporate taxes that are taking more and more out of the practice. It’s so bad that we have to list every chair, every file, the carpets on the floors, pencils….and it all carries a tax. It’s basically the same things every quarter, but every quarter we’re taxed on it as if we bought it new and no such thing as depreciation on taxes.
I know that the leftists who run my state think that all they have to do is just keep raising taxes and the money will magically appear, but they never seem to get that when they drop tax rates, they make MORE money. Of course, when the results are not really what it’s all about, it is simply their way of expressing their disdain for “corporations”. Never mind that every mom and pop business is a corporation. To a leftist who’s never owned a business, ideology always trumps common sense.

• Jeff Peters

I spent time studying elementary education and this process is how to get children into what subtraction means. This predates Common Core and has been taught for a long time. This is basic, easy stuff and the parent is a moron. We’ve always had number sets for place values for subtraction – I still have a set of blocks used from the 70s.

• Anonymous

Sorry, but using manipulative sets is a very visual way to do this. Teaching children that methods are more important than results is an exercise in failure. Logic is great, but ONLY so far as it leads to answers. I’m reading your post as you didn’t finish your training and you are not a teacher. You’re advocating for methods you were taught, but with nothing to compare to, it’s not possible to distinguish which method is better. This one is convoluted and not particularly visual.

• Jeff Peters

This has nothing to do with prioritizing methods. It is about analyzing other people’s methods. You have no proof of what they were taught. Instead, you are an anonymous union stooge that is here spreading bad information because you want to have teachers dedicated to talking about how great Obama is in math class instead of being required to actually teach. You are sick.

• Anonymous

You do have proof slkgej6 is a “union stooge… [blah blah blah]?

• Anonymous

I’ve never seen your name or picture anywhere on Glenn Beck’s sites, but if you draw from all of the things that I’ve posted that I’m a leftist, union, stooge, you are FAR less intelligent than I would ever have given you credit for. Are you sure you’re not a product of inbreeding?

• Jeff Peters

“I’ve never seen your name or picture anywhere on Glenn Beck’s sites” Because I’m not an opposition troll here to cause problems unlike you. You are anonymous for a reason.

• Anonymous

Ooohhh…don’t tell me…because you SAY I’m a leftist troll, it has to be true. Hmmm…that sounds just as factual and true as your other posts. My previous posts are easy to access. Why don’t you take a look, then come back and try to convince everyone here that I’m a leftist. You try to play the part, but you have no idea. You apparently think the definition of leftist is the opposite of what you think you are. Imagine how wounded I must feel that you don’t believe me. One of us can actually talk the talk and walk the walk, but it’s not you. No one who has actually completed graduate school goes around telling people how many “credits” they’ve accumulated, but then again, you believe ultraconservatism denotes leftist tendencies, so you might want to just start naming things exactly the opposite of what your definition would be. It comes off as more believable.
By the way, the National Education Association until February of this year, were the most ardent supporters of Common Core and they still are, they’re just miffed that THEY are tied into their students scores. Since they didn’t have any time to review the standards, yet still pushed for them to be implemented, all but four states signed on without ever having seen the standards. Now, they don’t like it because their students are being given standardized tests that are showing scores are going down and their merit evaluations are now tied to the students’ standardized test scores. For your benefit, just think UP and you’ll understand. They want that part of the agreement changed while maintaining the rest of Common Core.
Back to the drawing board, genius.

• Vicki Moses Caswell

Pass the bill so we can find out what is in it…. same as obamacare…. hows that working out for you…lol

• Anonymous

I’m not certain whether you’re being euphemistic. Just for the record, Jeff Peters is the guy who’s claiming I’m a leftist. That characterization is about as far from the truth as its possible to be. If you want to see my views on Obamacare, click on my moniker and search my posts.
I’m a doctor and I think Obamacare is the worst thought out, applied, and administered, law in the history of the United States. The very method used to pass the House was nothing more than a trick the democrats used in which they took a law that had nothing to do with Obamacare, removed the language of the original law, replaced the language under the legislative number of the bill they’d vacated, then declared that they considered it “passed”. Not a single Republican voted for the law in either the house or the senate, yet, because the original bill had passed the house, the senate, under Harry Reid, ran with the ball. Because the Republicans owned the house at the time that Obamacare “passed,” it would never have survived intact.
Democrats often claim that the supreme court has reviewed the law in its entirety and approved both it and Obama’s illegal usurpation of legislative authority to create a secondary body of law in complete conflict with the law that he has said repeatedly cannot be changed.
This law has nothing to do with delivering “affordable” healthcare to the American public. It, exactly like the laws that started the Common Core fiasco, had nothing to do with either healthcare or helping those without insurance obtain it. It is a coup of 1/6th of the American economy. Obama and his cronies are not democrats; they are communists. I’ve read his books and his previous writings and the man IS a communist. His announcement for the presidency was a virtual throw down for the press to see if they would blindly support him no matter how insane he may appear to be. He made the announcement from the home of one of his best friends, Bill Ayers, a communist radical who murdered people in the pursuit of his “cause”.
This law is about destroying the economy through governmental “ineptitude”. Like all radicals, there is only one way to achieve a coup. It is not about working through law to change people’s minds, it is about causing revolution, dividing classes and economic destruction. Only through those means would people willfully choose failed socialism which has been shown throughout history to only be enforceable through the wanton willingness to employ abject fascism. Why? Because socialism/communisms begins from the very first premise with a vastly assumptive untruth. It can only exist with the assumption that people will knowingly sacrifice those they love and care about for the needs of the collective whole, trusting that the paternalistic nomenclatura, the elitists at the top, know far better than they do what is good for their family, friends, community and nation. That is why those systems have failed everywhere they’ve been tried. None of those facts matter to leftist progressives. It is not about reality-it is about ideology exercised through the name power of empires. They couldn’t care less what the actual results of their particular brand of insanity are because it is not about that. It is about nothing more than egomaniacal lust for power
Does that put your mind at ease with my views or are we going to stick with the accusations of a truly leftist troll who made them?

• http://hankrutland.mynikken.net. Fior Gael

Thank you. Well said.

• Peter

For millions of people it’s working pretty great.

• Anonymous

Breaking subtraction into hundreds tens and ones along a number line is a usual tool. It gives insight when placed alongside other tools that manipulate numbers algorithmically.

Multiple contrasting tools that each give the correct answer is one way to help add insight and understanding.

• Jason Tkatch

I have no problem with educators teaching, say, a 1st grader the principals of subtraction using the grouping method. It’s really no different than grouping for multiplication (creating 6 rows of 8 to figure out 6×8=48) or grouping for dividing (creating a field of 48 dots and circling groups of 8 to figure out 48/8=6), which is how I was taught multiplication and division nearly 30 years ago. Doing things like this helps a student grasp the concepts. However, there are much faster ways to do arithmetic, and if Common Core is still insisting that 6th graders (or later) use grouping methods to solve problems because “it doesn’t emphasize how arithmetic works”, then it is an abysmal failure. The further you get in your K-12 education, the less you need to know “why” arithmetic works and you just need to know how to do it as quickly as possible. If you are doing calculus, you need to know how to subtract 316 from 427 in 3 steps and not 7 because most calculus problems are going to take at least 7 steps anyway

• Brie

6th graders need to be able to multiply and divide whole numbers and decimals using the standard algorithm. I think it’s in 4th and 5th as well with whole numbers.

CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.6.NS.B.3
Fluently add, subtract, multiply, and divide multi-digit decimals using the standard algorithm for each operation.

• Anonymous

Excellent points, all. This is precisely what I’ve been saying. I’ve had children that have been in Catholic schools, public schools and homeschooled and by far, the worst teaching methods have been utilized by the public schools. Most of my son’s teachers resent the standards and the standardized testing because once again, they’re being asked to teach strategy, NOT substance.

• Anonymous

Actually!

• His_Brother

I wish I took your calculus class! Seven lines? The calculus problems I encountered took half a page to a page and a half. Yes I agree at one point, you do need to know how to pull answers out of thin air; because of the way school is designed though and for the sole purpose of school work and the time limit for exams. However, if you are an engineer you MUST know all of your math, why it works, where it comes from, and how to derive your methods and why your solutions work. Now, being able to do quick math based on formulae only works when you are in school. In the real world, you have to use derived math, not formulae, to predict limits and they are not finite solutions as real world scenarios are approximations based on acceptable error tolerances. That is the only reason to learn math, to know it inside and out. However, there are a million jobs that require college diplomas (BA, BS, MA, MS…), and the way to one of those is by taking required classes and sometimes you have to take math even if you never use the math you studied. Hence the people that took a lot of math, but to date can’t do advanced math. They took math as a means to an end, but didn’t really absorb it, never used it, put it on a shelf and forgot it.

• Khal

Yep, I run a credit bureau, don’t need math, I have an accountant, a bookkeeper, etc. I can balance my checkbook, all I need to do.

• Anonymous

Thank you Jason this is actually the point. And calculus problems do take a lot steps but in a more logical and simplified form. Unfortunately the Core curriculum which was instituted only a couple years in our district, but the convoluted math was brought in before that to get the kids used to the new concepts, however most of the time my parents or myself would just throw up our hands in disgust and show him the ‘old ways’ and his teachers would send us nasty notes. This is the Common Core where I live.

• Brie

Should logic only lead to answers? I would think understanding would be more valuable than the answer itself…

• His_Brother

Thank you. Was Socrates smart? What is math? Well it stems from philosophy, and it is logical. Understanding the procedure is much more important than the answer itself. As you know, Brie, I am adding to your wisdom.

• Anonymous

You know, you actually have some good points to make, but they’re lost by the time you throw in the nastiness and arrogance.

• Oingo

This is the result of the overwhelmingly female biased education system. Not only do you have to deal with the people mired in process but the “facilitators” that don’t facilitate anything but put an expensive wall between the served and serving.

• Jeff Peters

This method has been part of mathematics going back decades. It is about teaching place values. The people causing a problem are union stooges that are trying to undermine curriculum in general because they would rather devote math class to talking about how great Obama is than providing kids an understanding of math and math problems.

• Oingo

You seem to have insiders knowledge and I’ll agree with that! How about rewriting history or the constitution? I saw an article with something to the effect that gun control is part of the 2nd amendment. What are your thoughts on that?

• Anonymous

You two are nuts. There is nothing here about women or Obama. It is old stuff and there is nothing much to see. 427 = 400 + 20 +7. If you subtract 316, you are subtracting 300 then 10 then 6, and you can show this on a number line in steps. “Jack” forgot to subtract the 10.

Teaching the algorithm is but a part of explaining what subtraction really means. Teaching this detail is smart and old, yet if Obama or women were the ones to first come up with this, then I’d be appreciative, if shocked it took so long.

We have a parent who goofed. That’s what we have here. It has nothing to do with Obama, women, or unions.

• Jeff Peters

Josex, I agree – I have pointed that out before. What is happening is that you have a lot of union trolls who are going around causing problems because they do not like the progress reports and being held accountable for failure.

• Guest

Jack deducted 20 by accident on the first 10’s and overshot 316 by 4 and kept going by factors of 10.

• Jeff Peters

If you knew anything about my background, you would know that I am a staunch conservative, a Catholic ethicist, and I have a lot of background in constitutional theory. The 2nd Amendment was rather clear about arming the individuals, and there were laws in place that said that men were required to have weapons for the defense of the nation – militias were rewritten from being a loose grouping of individuals into the National Guard in an unConstitutional manner. The militia was formed to allow for the people to resist any army – inside or outside of the country.

• http://hankrutland.mynikken.net. Fior Gael

Can this explain why my 14 yr old grandson did not know what 8 x 8 =? Probably not. The students of his and his older brother’s were not expected to KNOW those math facts. They knew the concept though.

• Jeff Peters

Want an explanation? Your grandson is a failure and his parents failed. They were expected to know and it is obvious that you are either making up stuff or trying to cover for ignorance.

• Anonymous

What? Most elementary school teachers are female as are middle school and high teachers in my state. Once you get to the college level that is another story. Depending on what state and whether you want to deal with that population of individuals, and the political b.s. that goes with it I’m sure more women would be college professors. Female biased education system…men have always been in the higher echelons of education, for over 900 years (one of the oldest universities is in Bologna, Italy). Perhaps some of them should be resurrected to teach the K-12 students and they would learn something.

• Peter

you should change the ‘g’ to a ‘k’, it suits you better.

• Cheryl Rose

You state that “Common Core produces students that simply have no preparation for the world outside of their indoctrinated classrooms.” On what evidence do you base your generalization? Public schools have not produced any graduates of Common Core curriculum as of yet and will not do so for several years due to the implementation process which began in K-2 only 2 years ago…

• Anonymous

Because there have been plenty of studies that show that when teachers have to spend all of their time teaching strategies to comply with tests that have never been subjected to regression analysis to see if they are actually testing what they believe they are testing, they can’t concentrate on the individual needs of the children in their classrooms.
My daughter is a teacher in our local school district. She teaches developmentally disabled students. She spends vast amounts of time attending training on the expectations for her particular class’s version of common core. She also has to fill out a large number of forms in which she has to detail HOW she is applying those requirements. She is changing positions because she simply can’t take it anymore. She wants to teach, yet her job performance is evaluated more on the basis of the school’s expectations of what common core’s standards will consist of in the future than on daily improvements in the classroom.
So far as my reference to “indoctrinated classrooms,” that was a reference to how the new tests that are required as part of common core in Washington state reflect leftist, progressivist beliefs in even the mathematics word problems. Some of it is subtle, some is not. Language arts is worse. I also know the character and political careers of the individuals and groups responsible for the common core program. It lends clues to WHY these things are being included in the tests. Additionally, in my state (Washington), there are some great studies of the Washington Assessment of Academic Achievement, which was structured identically to the testing regimens of common core. The program was a complete and abject failure and fell because of both parents and teachers railing against the lack of freedom to teach their subjects. Far from assuring student preparedness for college and careers, achievement on standardized testing and grading FELL. That was enough for the legislature to demand an end to the test.
I don’t want to wait until we’ve had ample opportunity to see the firm inculcation of this federal program (in the guise of having been done by the states) because by then it will be too late. We are trading away local and state controls of the education of children over to the federal government. The laws that brought the program into being are, at best, intrusive to the point of being in violation of the 10th amendment to the constitution. The money is a bribe for the states to sign away, illegitimately, the privacy rights of families and individuals without ever having either the legislature, local school districts and parents review the programs prior to implementation.
For the documentation of what I’m saying, I’ll refer you to my other posts. I did several in-depth reviews of the language of the actual laws and the individuals involved in those posts, so I’ll not repeat them here.

• Watch it

Excellent – thank you! My sister taught developmentally disabled students but quit some years ago when requirements changed. The methods she used successfully were no longer allowed – she had to go by their program only. The new methods worked to the disadvatave of the kids and she didn’t want to be any part of it. So, she eventually went to work for a private outfit teaching children who are at risk – kids who have social development issues, violent behavior, came from abusing backgrounds, had problems with the law, etc. She is payed far less, but is doing something she knows will actually make a difference – will work.

• Anonymous

I applaud your sister for what she has done. She is still doing something she loves without sacrificing her moral standards.

• His_Brother

In response to slkgej6:

You may skip to the last paragraph for a compact version; a thesis if you will.

“Common Core math is not about using math as a tool to logically encompass the phenomenae observed in the world around us”
–That’s correct, it’s not. In the example, common core was coercing the student to look at the problem through the eyes of another student and then perform analysis on a method; measuring aptitude.

“Instead, it tests a student’s ability to memorize a process.”
— That’s not correct. Common core, in this single problem, was demonstrating the total opposite. Memorizing a process was demonstrated by the father when he stacked two numbers on top of each and performed the mundane task of subtraction in columnar form; and also revealing his own lacking in aptitude.

“In such a system, teachers must spend all their time teaching the children strategy, NOT applicability.”
–The whole idea of common core IS application. Application was the concept of the problem. Applied mathematics is the ability to take what was learned and put those learned techniques into real world scenarios.

“That process has little to do with real world applications.”
–That’s exactly what the problem is trying to teach the student.

In this one, small, minute example, “common core” is demonstrating the ability to recognized that subtraction isn’t just a task of stacking numbers on top of each other. The problem is exercising the student’s mind to recognize that Jack was conceptualizing that he could subtract large factors of 100, then factors of 10, and then factors of 1. BUT, Jack made a tiny, but critical error. That was the test; to put the student in Jack’s world, and figure out where he went wrong although on the right track.

I think you are missing a fundamental notion of our political system. It is the school districts that put pressure on the teachers to produce “results” in the form of high test scores. Why? Well the better the scores, the more money that district will get. How do you get a high score? Well if you know what the exams look like, then just teach the kids a bunch of formulae, teach them necessary recognizable cookie-cutter questions, and push them through the system to satisfy the political machine. Still, that has no affect on your employees work ethic.

“I own several businesses and it is obvious to me that young job applicants, because of the overwhelming emphasis schools place on process over results…”
–Actually it’s exactly the opposite. The schools put emphasis on results. How do you get into Ivy League schools? Results. Or lots of money!

“Common Core produces students that simply have no preparation for the world outside of their indoctrinated classrooms.”
— It is the lack of Common Core that stifles the students from being able to think on their own. Only work experience can prepare a person for work. However, typical classes in our times past included knitting, cooking, sewing, typing, short-hand. Although these classes helped people learn skills, it does not a producer of ethics.

“because of the overwhelming emphasis schools place on process over results, many of them feel that if they simply mire themselves in the process of their job assignment, they should be rewarded for what they consider work ethic. That ‘work ethic’ costs me money. I’m interested in results; honestly obtained and timely.”
— Grade school is only designed for preparation for high school. High school is designed for further education in college. Ethics come from family upbringing. A work ethic is a combination of personal ethics with a learned work experience; “work experience”, being experiences of on-the-job training, failing, and learning from failures.

Grade school through high school is not designed to teach people job skills, nor is it designed to teach people work ethics. If a person chooses not to further their education, then one may choose a vocation which is to learn a trade in a learning environment. Work ethics is a combination of personal ethics, acquired by family upbringing, mixed with acquired experiences learned by trial and error. Learning from one’s own mistakes is based on aptitude and personal ethics.

Now from the words of the proctor to the student, in “Billy Madison” the movie, he says, “Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. “.

• Anonymous

You’re missing quite a bit in this argument. I don’t have a problem with a teacher using different methodologies to enhance a student’s critical thinking. I DO have a problem with schools believing they are testing something that has nothing to do with critical thinking.
You made reference to what I said about my business. I know the objective of the tests that are used here in Washington and they are anything but logical. However, your reply made reference to applicability, then you talked about receiving acceptance to an Ivy League School. You do realize that the application process between educational institutions has nothing whatsoever to do with working in, for example, my medical practice, correct? A student’s ability to impress an Ivy League school does not equate to what I require to be able to work in my practice. I’m a successful businessman as well as a practitioner. The two are not necessarily the same thing. I need both. There has been a significant downgrading in the logical reasoning ability of the employees I hire just out of high school (for non-patient care positions). Some of the methods they use to complete the simplest mathematics are often circuitous and take far too much time, so we end up teaching them how to do it efficiently, something that I never would have believed I would see.
My problem with Common Core has more to do with its introduction, its costs and the underlying objectives laid out in the TARP law that brought it into being as well as the subsequent laws and mandates that comprised its development. Take a look at some of the other posts I’ve made on this subject line and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
We’re never going to agree on this subject, I can tell, but I can respect your beliefs.

• Peter

If you’re hiring people straight out of high school, then they have not been taught under Common Core as it was only recently implemented.

• Cheryl Rose

“Because there have been plenty of studies that show that when teachers have to spend all of their time teaching strategies to comply with tests that have never been subjected to regression analysis to see if they are actually testing what they believe they are testing, they can’t concentrate on the individual needs of the children in their classrooms.
My daughter is a teacher in our local school district. She teaches developmentally disabled students. She spends vast amounts of time attending training on the expectations for her particular class’s version of common core. She also has to fill out a large number of forms in which she has to detail HOW she is applying those requirements. She is changing positions because she simply can’t take it anymore. She wants to
teach, yet her job performance is evaluated more on the basis of the school’s expectations of what common core’s standards will consist of in the future than on daily improvements in the classroom.
So far as my reference to “indoctrinated classrooms,” that was a reference to how the new tests that are required as part of common core in Washington state reflect leftist, progressivist beliefs in even the mathematics word problems. Some of it is subtle, some is not. Language arts is worse. I also know the character and political careers of the individuals and groups responsible for the common core program. It lends clues to WHY these things are being included in the tests. Additionally, in my state (Washington), there are some great studies of the Washington Assessment of Academic Achievement, which was structured identically to the testing regimens of common core. The program was a complete and abject failure and fell because of both parents and teachers railing against
the lack of freedom to teach their subjects. Far from assuring student preparedness for college and careers, achievement on standardized testing and grading FELL. That was enough for the legislature to demand an end to the test.
I don’t want to wait until we’ve had ample opportunity to see the firm inculcation of this federal program (in the guise of having been done by the states) because by then it will be too late. We are trading away local and state controls of the education of children over to the federal government. The laws that brought the program into being are, at best, intrusive to the point of being in violation of the 10th amendment to the constitution. The money is a bribe for the states to sign away, illegitimately, the privacy rights of families and individuals without ever having either the legislature, local school districts and parents review the programs prior to implementation.
For the documentation of what I’m saying, I’ll refer you to my ot
her posts. I did several in-depth reviews of the language of the actual laws and the individuals involved in those posts, so I’ll not repeat them here.”

• Anonymous

Cheryl, I’m not sure what you’re asking. You just reposted my post. Am I missing something?

• Jay Jackson

work smart and hard, idiot.

• David

Oh its not that bad sheesh. Its a good problem for kids to try and use problem solving to try and see what someone else did wrong. The assignment wasn’t to subtract using that method but to see what another did wrong. I like it, Its really not that complicated.

• memasmuffn

Please! You really don’t get the idea of common core do you?

• Cynic

You can’t take three from two,

Two is less than three,

So you look at the four in the tens place.

Tom Lehrer – ‘New Math’ from ‘That Was the Year That Was’ (1965)

• Emily Agner

I SOLVED IT! The error Jack made was using a number line to solve a simple subtraction problem. BOOM!

• Jacquelynn Edwards-Van de Boga

They are forcing kids to use that stupid number line approach. It was not his error by choice.

• Anonymous

Sorry Emily, Jacquelynn doesnt understand Sarcasm. 😉

• we won

No, actually they arent. In order to know that Jack make a mistake the student has to do the traditional math in order to figure out the pattern of the number line used by Jack in order to discern what mistake he made. Looks like all of you could have used some of this teaching when you were in school.

• Anonymous

Yes, based on your excellent reasoning, I can see that you’re truly, undeniably a genius and everyone else is a moron. Truly I wish that I could be as gifted as you.

• Brie

Or we could be like you and never do anything new. We could just keep doing things the old way and never progress… The number line is a primary skill. The traditional algorithms are taught after students understand concepts like, 1s, 10s and 100s. Number lines are not new and they are not exclusive to Common Core. I’ve been teaching 1o years and have used number lines for all of them. You can thank Marylin Burns, not common core. Leaving the dark ages isn’t a bad thing…

• Emily Agner

Brie, I appreciate your point, but common core is not the way to move forward. I was taught number lines as a child as well, but only as a visual tool. It was not used as a WAY to solve simple subtraction. I have seen common core curriculum like this, and THEY ARE teaching children to use number lines not as visual tools but as a WAY to solve. There is something fundamentally wrong with that approach. It does not move education forward at all! The dark ages are now, and common core is taking children and their parents towards more darkness. (I liked your metaphor :-)) Take care!

• Jeff Peters

Actually, it was used as a way. If you were taught it as a visual tool, you were provided a way. Obviously, you didn’t pay attention and made a fool of yourself above and now have to backtrack.

• Emily Agner

I was initially referring to my education as a child, not the said problem above, and then stated the problem above did use it as a way… Also, visual tools and mathematical formulas are not the same thing. Please learn the difference! Sorry Jeff but the back tracking needed here is yours. FYI, try not to begin your point by insulting people. You lose credibility and only makes you look foolish!

• Jeff Peters

Mathematical formula? You are just throwing out words without understanding. Children do not learn “formula” until later. They learn functions. Number lines are teaching them how to understand place values so they can perform functions. It is obvious that you have no clue what you are talking about yet but you keep talking. That is a problem.

• Brie

I think I’m getting to the heart of the cognitive dissonance I am having between how I see the common core and how others see it. I think the difference is standards versus curriculum. My district currently doesn’t have a curriculum for the common core standards. Teachers are being allowed to implement the standards as professionals. (At least in grades 4-8, in K-3 they use Investigations) I teach 6th grade…

Using a number line is a way to solve, but let me ask, is it being used as the one and only way to solve? I would never allow my students to believe that there is one and only one way to solve a problem. I agree completely that using a number line would be backwards compared to the traditional algorithm. Doing a task analysis I would start with base 10 blocks, move to a number line and then go to the traditional algorithm. Is this not what is happening?

• Anonymous

Brie, your comments are abysmally clueless. I’m a doctor and a research scientist (molecular biologist). My job is nothing but discovery. Frankly, I’d be more than willing to stack my education against yours any day. Perhaps instead of whining that we need “something” new, you could try learning something those of us who live in reality refer to as “efficiency”. You think you understand reason? Does that mean that the more involuted the explanation, the longer the process, that somehow, this is logic? You’re truly pathetic.

• Brie

Name calling? Really? From such a well educated person, as well as a scientist, I might expect more reason and logic. I’m sure you’re very proud of your degree, education and job as a research scientist. I’m very proud of my job as a teacher. I chose my job not because I could do nothing else, but because I wanted to make a difference in the lives of children. I had a 6th grade teacher myself that guided me to love learning and I want to be that beacon of light for others. I try to learn as much as I can about many subjects. Molecular biology is fascinating. I love science. No only do I teach 6th grade I teach an after school STEM club. I find it disappointing that you felt it necessary to resort to insults and name calling rather than attempt to engage me in an actual conversation on the common core. That’s my interest here. I want to know why it’s so hated and despised. I was actually serious in my questions. I want to know what people really think the problem with common core is… I am starting to think that people are confusing the Common Core Standards with the curriculum that some states/districts/schools are using. I’m truly trying to use reason and logic to understand. I have no problem with efficiency, and I never said that I did. My concern is the idea of favoring “drill and kill” over concept building. Is using a number line efficient? No! But if a student, for what ever reason, lacks a better strategy why not make sure that they have that tool should they need it. I certainly hope they will go beyond the use of a number line. If not, that is truly frighting. My students use number lines to add and subtract fractions. When they have a better understanding of it, they realize that they don’t need it and usually come up with the standard algorithm on their own.

• Anonymous

Sorry about that. Your earlier posts did not seem terribly sincere at the time and my interaction took a turn for the worst and for that I apologize. You seem like a decent person even if we don’t agree. Being a scientist does not make one immune to anger and frustration. I’m glad you enjoy teaching students. My problems with Common Core center around its origin (those who are its advocates and creators), its costs, implementation and efficacy.
I’ve gone into great detail with some people on this site as to how all this came about, so I won’t here. I’ve read all of the laws, the documents explaining the laws and studied the people who are advocating this. The NEA was the most staunch and ardent supporter of this legislation until February of this year, when they suddenly realized that, by law, their positions were now dependent on the scores of their students on standardized testing. Under Common Core in the last two years, those scores have dropped. Now, the NEA is opposing Common Core, not because they think it’s the wrong program, but because they don’t want their evaluations tied to how well their students do on standardized testing. I also do not believe that students’ scores are individually reflective of a teacher’s abilities, but as an overall group, this should be a scale that should mathematically demonstrate if the testers are actually testing what they believe they are, or if a difference exists.
I am VERY much opposed to Common Core from the standpoint of federal control. There’s nothing wrong with establishing a metric such as the ITBS that can accurately compare between students all over the nation without forcing schools to comply with teaching strategies for test taking, but this law bypasses all privacy laws all without ever having gone through a single state legislature or congress at the federal level prior to the states’ acceptance of the contracts requiring these measures.
Additionally, through this program local controls over schools is being removed from the hands of parents and ensconced firmly in the pervasive hands of the federal government. I don’t believe that the states even thought about what this law would mean. There are parts of the law in which, without parental permission, the school district allows digital monitoring of students both at school and at home and requires the most intrusive computer tracking system from the time the students are in public preschools until the age of 20. Then, it begins with THEIR children. All of this data will be stored in the NSA’s facility in Utah. All of this was done without any legislative oversight. There was simply no time given by the Race to the Top program. The schools had two months to make the initial application for the money used to entice them by the TARP program. Then, they had two summer months in which to review the standards, sign the contracts and agree to the terms of those contracts.
There is nothing wrong with matching the learning style to the child, but that should be the decision of the teacher and the parents, period. The federal government has proven over and over again that it is patently incapable of managing ANY government program successfully and efficiently. I have no intention of quietly rolling over and letting Barack Obama, Bill Ayers and leftist progressives invade the minds of my children and grandchildren because the schools agreed to trade away my rights for a few dollars. To me, this represents pure evil; not the methods a teacher chooses, but the arrogance of Education departments on federal and state levels that believe that I should have no say over what happens to my children because they are part of a “collective” that is owned and managed by a dictatorial central government.
You are the “point of the spear” so to speak, in your position. My quarrel is not with you, but schools should expect that when these departments believe that they have the right and responsibility to interfere in what does not belong to them, they will face stark opposition. If you’re a parent, then you should understand that your children are NOT part of some vague collective and not your own to raise and nurture as you see fit. That kind of arrogance needs to be eradicated. We, as parents, are not, and cannot be willing to bargain away the lives of our children because Barack Obama’s ilk believes they are far better suited to indoctrinate our children than we are.

• Brie

Interesting… You and I look at Common Core from very different perspectives. It may appear naive of of me, but I try the best I can to avoid looking at the political motivations behind things. Maybe I shouldn’t, but there is no way in a country of over 300 million people that we are going to be able to please everyone. Most of the time it appears we can’t please 50% of the population. When I see the standards, I think about how they are suited for my students. Where are they in the learning process and how best can I get them to where they will first and foremost in my mind, want to continue to be learners. I want to know what my kids need to know and how it will help them succeed in the 21st century.

I can agree with you on many of the things you pointed out. I know very well about the use of these new tests (PARCC and Smarter Balanced) being used in teacher evaluations. As far as I know the NEA has been aware of it from the beginning. I had never been told otherwise. However, there was talk of using the state testing in the same way under NCLB. The ITBS hasn’t been used in my state for years as far as I know. I’m not sure when it stopped, but I know it was replaced by the Stanford test. As a teacher it’s very difficult because I have parents that simply do not value education at all. We often compare it to being mad at your dentist because you have a cavity when you don’t brush your teeth.

I was surprised by what you said about the tracking of students. I don’t think I really looked at it the way you presented it, and perhaps I should have. I never thought of the ways that data could be used, but I try to avoid thoughts of conspiracy. It is very “big brother” isn’t it…

Unfortunately I think this belief that departments or groups have the rights to interfere in what doesn’t belong to them comes from all sides.

Were you a supporter of NCLB? If so, why?

• Anonymous

No, I’m not a supporter of No Child Left Behind. I was actually very disgusted when President Bush proposed this. I read the legislation and frankly wondered whether he had lost his mind. I’m a proponent of the local teachers and parents maintaining direct control over the curricula and funding for the schools in their communities. The vast majority of funding comes from property taxes in the community, and that is where control should remain.
I also believe that a teacher who is willing to work hard enough to adapt to the needs of his/her individual students is a great teacher. Unfortunately, what I see most of the time is that even at the local level, none of the increased levies are used to pay for what happens in the classroom. Instead, it seems that most districts that see any increase in funding add more layers of bureaucracy. I never seem to see much in the way of raises for the teachers or increased funding for materials in their classrooms.
Frankly, I have come to believe that the federal government has the attitude, “If it ain’t broke, fix it until it is!” The more money we throw into education, the more red tape and the less time teachers have to teach children substance. Instead, I believe that much of the time, their work involves teaching strategies to pass tests. I also believe that when teachers are evaluated according to how well their students have learned to game the test, the problem only becomes worse. The more control we put back into the hands of the local schools, the better. I want the federal government OUT of the classrooms. Frankly, I don’t think your life would much change were the state education departments to simply disappear one day.

• Anonymous

Sorry about my previous post I did not go far enough and read. Being a Gerontology major and dealing with the elderly, I too find many issues to deal with when it comes to certain issues about change.

• Brie

No worries, You think that teacher want to change the wrong things? What do you think might be the right things to change in education?

I don’t think some of what I’m trying to say is coming across correctly. It appears that SO many people are up in arms about this “new” or that “new”. The reality is that number lines have been around a very long time. I see so many people lashing out that I wonder if it really has anything to do with the standards or the curriculum in of itself…

• Anonymous

Sometimes change is not for the best and evidently, you must be a over achiever that also thinks that not teaching handwriting is appropriate as well? Ignorance and stupidity, no wonder the children in classrooms are socially inept they have teachers that want to change everything, but yet are changing the wrong things. Bravo to you.

• Jeff Peters

Numberlines have been around a long time and are there to teach place value. Many children need to have a physical understanding of groups before large subtraction “makes sense.” Blocks use to be used for this dating back decades.

• Betty Wilson

Very funny Emily Agner!!! LOL

• we won

Its not just the math problem thats being taught. The issue here is that they are teaching 2 skills math and critical thinking. The problem that was made was that Jack didnt finish solving.

• hightonemofo

ur as dumb as the parent, Jack’s error was using digits of ten rather than digits of one, when you look the typed numbers 127 – 121…moving from right to left…it doesn’t take “high mathematics”…you have to first understand the problem before going about solving it…that’s referred to as “reading comprehension”…thumbs down vote for you!

• Emily Agner

BAHAHA, you clearly don’t understand sarcasm. Your right though it does not take high mathematical skills to understand the problem, I could have reasoned it out easily as an elementary student. I have always been good at that sort of thing. But your delusional if you think this a good way to teacher children basic math skills like addition and subtraction. The number line is not proportional and would confuse any child under the age of 12. (and yes, this kind of problem is being used to teach basic math skills, not just to increase so called critical thinking skills, I have seen the curriculum myself) *sigh* FYI, Your point would be so much better if you didn’t start of your statement by calling me stupid. “hightonemofo” maybe you should grow up. I was being sarcastic, I didn’t say I couldn’t solve the problem. Does it boost your ego that much to insult and call people names while you troll? I think someone is in need of self reflection, not just because of the name calling, but because casual sarcasm has become beyond you!

• hightonemofo

u r rite. I’m sorry for calling u dumb. I ran an after school program and date a teacher. I believe in the old school method of rote learning. They teach kids several ways of doing math. My point was not which way is better. My point was the parent misunderstood the task at hand.

• Emily Agner

I spent a short time teaching until i decided to change careers, but I still tutor children in math and science. I have seen most of the curriculum. I have seen problems like this in common core for students who do not understand basic math skills. It is impossible for them to solve these problems on their own. I think his parents attempt to explain that is lost because he did not explain his child can not yet do the simple way, so how could he correct jack’s clearly wrong and complex way? There are many problems like this in common core that are not being addressed. He is correct however that it only complicates, it does not simplify. If you want children to understand you have to simplify first before adding complexity!

• hightonemofo

I was an after school program manager for at-risk youth for 4 years. I have helped second graders with that very math problem above and they got it. They have a math workbook with the number line questions on one page, and the traditional method on the other page. It is asinine to suggest they are not taught in column format. As I said elsewhere, whiny Americans only want to point blame rather than solve the problem. Hardly anyone has attempted to even understand the Jack’s error, but everyone complained how hard it is…I bet a million bucks 99% of the people in this thread could not use a number line to figure out 3 – 1.

• Emily Agner

I have seen this too… and ones like it, there teachers were so focused on getting the children to understand the number line the children still didn’t understand the traditional way. Its not just the curriculum. I’m glad you have had some success in the at-risk schools, but children who are not at risk are struggling and so are some teachers. Just because you have had success, doesn’t mean everyone every where is. And again, you have to some how find a way to insult people. Egotistical much? Just because people disagree with you does not make them incapable of understanding number lines. Grow up! I thought for a moment I could have a mature conversation with conflicting view points and experiences, but i should of known from your original comment you are incapable of doing so!

• hightonemofo

Congrats in getting over 100 people to satisfy ur fragile ego. I even apologized to u, but apparently feel dumb.

• hightonemofo

O yea Emily, here’s more fodder to satisfy my insatiable ego..I was a civil engineering technician for two years in Charlotte, NC…if that “math whiz” of a parent could not understand that simple problem, he sucked if he was ever an engineer. Plus, he said in the clip his son has autism and is ADHD…but what is his excuse and the 99% in this thread…u look like a hottie at any rate…muah!

• Anonymous

I think the best methods would be to teach both methods side by side to show the process behind the traditional way. That seems as if it might clarify the entire number line and traditional example at the same time. To show how they are related and the same thing.

• Peter

STOP IT, you’re making too much sense!!

• Anonymous

If we could measure it, I’d take you up on the bet.

• hightonemofo

you’d win, but u passed the test too, I intentionally nflated the percentage to c if anyone would “do the math”…lol…

• BigD

I could! And I did. I also have gooder english.

• hightonemofo

I wouldn’t gloat if I were u…the bar was pretty low.

• Anonymous

It is best to teach both of these methods side by side so the students understand the exact reasoning behind the rote memorization process. The building blocks of math.

• Anonymous

the more varied ways they are taught to understand going about a math problem, the better math students they will be. Rote is only one way but they need to understand the method behind the memorization not just the memorization ..

• Anonymous

Good then you apologize you ingrate

• hightonemofo

ur as simple as glen beck…the task was to point out the kids error not to solve the problem,,,which was actually pretty easy…BOO for u

• Jeff Peters

Number lines teach place value and have been around for a long time. The error was that jack only counted 6 of the 1s instead of 16. That is obvious to even children. If you couldn’t get that, you need help.

• hightonemofo

They will surely be reintroduced to the number line in 3d grade when they get their first taste of algebra.

• suncat

Sorry, you go to the back of the class

• Anonymous

LOL! I love thank you Emily it was not appropriate method to use. Just subtract it and get it over with. We don’t need excessive word problems to tell us what to do.

• Peter

What if you are LEARNING how to do subtraction? Then that number line would be pretty helpful. BOOM!
Back at ‘cha

• Anonymous

My girls are grown now ,but when they were bringing homework home in the 80″s it had started making no sense to me. i”m so glad they”re grown & I don”t have to help w/ homework anymore. My Grandson( 9yrs old) is now bringing home junk like this,,,,

• Anonymous

Glenn does not understand. It is too simple to say it is to discredit the parents and the old ways. This is an act of terrorism, plain and simple. With the corruption of an already feeble education system, this process is meant to destroy generations of learners such that the society will collapse or at least be ripe for a take over.

• Jason Grant

Here is the solution. You count down from 427 by 100 3 times which is 300 leaving 127. Then count down by 10 once which is 310 leaving 117. Then you count down by one six times until you have subtracted 316. That will leave 111 under the line. Jack’s first mistake was going to a public school. His second was counting down by 20 the first time then 10 each time after that when he should have counted down by 100’s, then 10’s, then 1’s. It seems like math for learning disabled people. It’s basically a fancy version of counting on your fingers for large numbers.

• Jason Grant

Ok so the writing is the father';s and he had the mistake by counting down by 20 once and 10 the rest of the time. Does he not realize the problem call for the student to subtract 100’s then 10’s and then 1’s? It may not be the best way to teach it, but it could if you have a visual learner. i am no common core fan, but not everyone learns the same.

• memasmuffn

It is still a dummies way of solving a simple subtraction problem..Don’t give it any more validity than that. We don’t have enough fingers and toes!

• Chris Lowe

GLEN-
i like you!
but in this instance you have it all wrong. i don’t know about the other CC processes but there is more to this “problem” than you understand.

1st understand that i am an artist and i use this kind of thing every day. i also happen to be a republican, a conservative, and a christian sooo… take what you will.

to the problem- let me educate you on what is happening here. math is a process that they are teaching here. a number line is geometry. 3 number lines is a Cartesian coordinate system x, y, z. before kids can understand 3 dimensional systems they must get the first. oh and kids they already have a certain amount of understanding about these things- they play video games right.

the other thing that this particular “problem” is to explain why the antagonists approach is wrong and how to fix it. this is a process that any well adjusted young person should understand how to do. there is nothing worse than going into a meeting with a bunch of engineers that don’t understand how to explain to their fellow engineers why they got a wrong answer. this is sometimes the reason why it takes so long to design something.

lastly, to the dad. i totally understood why and how this kind of problem came up and why and how the process works. this doesn’t mean i smarter than you. it doesn’t mean that you are stupid… it just means that you are not gifted at seeing the big picture.

• Anonymous

I’m not certain why you believe that engineers would ever use such methodology. When engineers communicate, the language is math-math applied in a straightforward, repetitious manner so that the language can be understood by anyone who speaks it. Regressional analysis relies on the ability to invert equations to trace back to the source of a problem, but this method cannot be used to do that, and creates a complicated morass that more closely resembles an organizational flow chart than mathematics.

• Jason Grant

Of course they wouldn’t, this is simplified math. I agree it basically says our kids are too stupid to learn any other way, but they wouldn’t be using this as adults. I hope.

• Chris Lowe

i know what methodology they use because i have see it in practice. i was a leader of a team of engineers and other technical types that couldn’t agree on anything so much so that almost nothing was decided. this is the reason why some things are never implemented properly and there is a homogenizing effect on design products…

kids understand more than you think.

• Matthew Margolis

I call bluff…. If this father could not figure this out he should return his degree(s)…

The
problem is trying to show that jack counted back by hundreds 3 times
from the original 427… leaving 127. Jack still had 16 of the original
316 to remove.
However, Jack only removed 6 more, giving an answer of 121. Jack
forgot to count off the other ten… Further the count should have been
100’s first then 10’s (as in regrouping) and then the remaining 6.

As for the written numbers under the dots… that was placed by the father trying to “figure it out”… (107, 97,87, etc…)

• Jason Grant

I didn’t realize the father wrote those down, I tohught it was supposed to be a picture Jack wrote on counting down. The father did the logical thing (in his head). The biggest lines are 100, the slighlty longer line is 20, and the shortest are 10. He failed to realize the line is in multiples of 10. You are right, jack missed removing 10 because one of the short line is very slightly longer than the others. Any kid could make that mistake, and have a hard time finding it. The father should have realized, being an engineer, that the line helps them count down the by hundreds, tens, and ones. He clearly subtacted 20 at one point lol.

• A.G.

Whomever came up with the common core..it’s not doing anyone any good. We all learned the old fashioned way.Why reinvent he wheel? Spend your time and money on something more useful!!

• Anonymous

Because the motto of government is, “If it ain’t broke, fix it until it IS”.

• Anonymous

exactly.

• memasmuffn

I believe the father had no problem figuring this out. All he was saying is the method was a primative, time consuming, detrimental method of teaching subtraction. Common core is to teach OUR CHILDREN math in a environment that WE PAY FOR…not hyroglifics or how to count on their fingers and toes

• Matthew Margolis

This type of teaching was prior to CC. For that matter IMHO and RL exp. most are confusing two main aspects of CC.

1. How the various states and or districts are teaching students to meet the “standard”.

2. Common Core in and of itself. CC is “only the standards” of what information a child in k-12 should know as it relates to his or her respective grade level.

Each state as I recall, is able to place 15% of their own material on top of it… so for example California loves to teach about the missions. Where as in the rest of the country they could care less…

In New York I have seen subtraction math now being taught as follows…

32-12=

12+3 = 15
15+5= 20
20+10= 30
30+2= 32

Take all the digits after the addition sign and add it up and you get the answer to 32-12…

This is how they NY are teaching to meet the “standard”.

• Nayan Suncaller

Well it’s obvious that memasmuffn failed English and never took much History; it’s spelled “hieroglyphics”

• Jennifer Guthrie Packard

Dude. You are simply proving the father’s point. An assinine way to try and solve a basic problem. Like killing a fly with an atomic bomb.

• Matthew Margolis

That is the teaching of how to solve… not the standard.

How they are teaching is one issue; and what the father is complaining about. Yet GB, and the media at large are calling it CC. How they are teaching IS NOT… I will say it again.. IS NOT common core.

The “standard” that says all 2nd graders should know how to subtract 3 digit numbers is common core.

• Becca

That’s great! Good job Matt. How old are you? Are you in 2nd grade? Could you have solved this problem in 2nd grade?

• Matthew Margolis

I am guessing then Becca, you and I are in agreement… how some of the states and schools are teaching students to meet the standard is an issue. I am sure you are not suggesting that a second grader should not know how to subtract 12 from 32?

• Anonymous

Here’s another one: E = mc^2 or E equals m times c times c.

Supposedly stands for Energy (E) equals mass (m) times the speed of light (c) squared (^2).

“The speed of light” is considered to be a constant and so doesn’t vary. But the constant is really “the speed of light in a vacuum” and therein lies a problem – it should be “the energy in a vacuum equals the mass in a vacuum times the speed of light in a vacuum squared”.

If there is mass in the “vacuum” then it isn’t a vacuum.

“As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.” – Albert Einstein

“There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.” – Mark Twain

• John K. Winters

The last sentence in this story says it all: “If parents no longer understand how to help their kids with schoolwork, the role of the parent becomes less and less important.” This is their entire goal.

• Brie

So parents are unable to learn another way to do something or are they unwilling? The role of the parent need not become less and less important if the parent is willing to take the time an effort to learn and understand something they don’t know. Maybe I just think learning shouldn’t stop when you leave “formal” education…

• Jackie

I am currently finishing up my junior year in college as a Elementary Education/ Deaf Education major and this is also the way they are teaching us to teach students. While I do not agree with the method, I have to pick and choose my battles with my professors.

• http://www.absoluteintensity.com dennis reilly

obama used this method to get into harvard, which is why he keeps his records sealed

• Mike Benton

In 69 years of doing math problems I have never seem anything like this used. It is nonsense unless it is taught only to show why simple arithmetic rules work, like borrowing from the left to make subtraction work. Once you understand the logic of borrowing it is time to move on (to carrying in addition…).

• Dennis G

I am not in favor of common core; however, I often do math the way they are teaching it. But that is how I do it in my head. if someone asks me what 427 minus 316 is the first thing I do in my head is take 400 minus 300. Now I am dealing with 127 minus 16, 27 minus 10 is 17, then minus 6 is 11 for am answer of 111. I don’t do it on paper that way, but I figured out how to do hard math in my head that way. It is just a different way to look at numbers

• http://www.privacyapplications.com/ Privacy Applications

My daughter is dealing with this utter nonsense. We need to be demanding the name of the person or persons who came up with this!!

• Clint Hamilton

It needs to be known if all the questions had that same type of method. That would be a problem and show a type of agenda to confuse children from simple direct problem solving. If not, then was this particular problem a type of deconstruction exercise for the kid to help him learn to help someone else? We would have to know if the kid would have been marked wrong if he gave a similar answer to his father’s.

• Anonymous

I’ve seen common core methodology applied through junior high with two of my children, but so far, all of their high school math teachers have scoffed at some of the convoluted methods that common core uses. All of them check methodology, but so far, they have been interested in the answer and only checked methodology when it seemed that understanding was missing. My son has learned alternative methods that seem to fit him better than what his teachers use, but they’ve been very supportive of that and understand it very well. I don’t know that this methodology lends itself to application to higher math forms because it is simply too complex to apply.

• Anonymous

Jack

\$427.00-316.00=\$111.00

You need to go back up the hill and find Jill because she shorted you \$10.00 in change.

• Monica Meleski

The common core curriculum just stinks. My kids were having problems and I showed them the way we were taught in the day. My youngest said, that’s not how we were told to do it, I said well it was easier and you got the answer right? Maybe they should focus on getting new textbooks in the classroom instead. It’s sad when my children have the same books that I had in high school and that was 20 years ago!!

• Brie

Common Core is not a curriculum. It is a set of standards. How Districts, schools and teachers go about teaching them is a curriculum and completely up to them. I do agree with you on the text books though… Although maybe if we weren’t spending so much to publishers for books they could afford to pay teachers what they are worth…

• GOBACKHOMEPOLTICIANS

Common core is the dummies how to guide to “teaching”

Public schools have so much money thrown at them the excuse that money is not there is complete BS When schools are failing the excuse is there’s not enough money, the teachers are underpaid, yet no one ever says, the absurd union pensions are holding us back, we cannot pay people the same salary in perpetuity..they are paying two people for the same job, that wont ever work out

• Brie

I’m not sure what you mean. You don’t think teachers should be allowed pensions? Aren’t there other careers where the employees pay into a pension system? I really don’t know. I also am not sure what you mean by “they are paying two people for the same job…” I don’t live in a state where the NEA or any other “union” does much more than strive to make sure things are as “fair” as possible.

• Dominic Chaulk

I have been a math tutor for over a year, and I tutor all subjects up to and including algebra 2. I have problems with the 8th grade math common core workbook. The common core is the worst thing I’ve ever seen when it comes to school. I can do calculus equations and derivatives, but I don’t understand the methods used in common core. I have begun to make up my own equations and processes that I show my students and they ALWAYS say to me, “Oh its that easy?” Almost every teacher I know hates the common core, and I hate it too. I think these poor kids got a huge kick in the pants with this new “system”.

• Ed Kohl

What good does it do to find the problem in the equation, if you CAN’T DO THE MATH????

• GOBACKHOMEPOLTICIANS

What good does it do you to graduate high school and you cannot add,subtract divide and multiply properly? Those basic skills if not learned properly will harm a child’s future worse than anything

I was at McDonalds the other day, gave young black lady a 100 dollar bill, she gave me back 106 dollars in 20 dollar bills, a 5, and 1, with some change….that is what we can look forward to…

you ever go to a store and watch some cashiers who cannot count money right? Who cannot give the right change so they round it off? that is what we have to look forward to….

Common sense is a rarity in this country now days, the ignorance you see is astounding and it has to be because of the way these kids are taught by their parents and teachers at school, no other way around it

• Fat Lip

Sure can’t fight the facts .
I to have made money on those who can not do the math .
I guess they think i’m the dummy I give it back .

• J Howard

This isn’t common core. These types of problems have been around for over a dozen years. The goal is to get students to actually think, analyze, and draw conclusions. The inability to see problems in a different light is what is holding many students back.

• Anne Rezabek

Dear Jack, I majored in Journalism. I saw that the numbers on the number line jumped from 107 to 127, missing 117. Common Core isn’t about being the easiest way to solve a problem. It’s about developing critical thinking skills. The goal wasn’t to solve the problem. It was about finding the error.

• GOBACKHOMEPOLTICIANS

It asks him how he would fix the problem lol so he has to solve it and based on the timeline given it cannot be done

Finding the way he got to 121 is easy, using the timeline to get to 111 is impossible

• Shaun Winslow Lafave

I could be wrong here but what if you put 2 & 2 together,common core & civil service exams… (A) A white male 36 years old takes a (cake decorating) civil service exam and score 99 points (B) A ( any ethnicity other then white) woman 36 years old takes the same exam and scores 96 points. Both people have the same education and experience. Who will get the job?

• Brigand

Now thats progressive thinking at its worst!

• Rachel Robins

It seems that the “current wisdom” is to negate all that we’ve known before, reinvent the wheel, and turn everything on its head…The result of this? Chaos, which makes it easy for someone to step up and “create order”.

• Anonymous

I want to be a college chemistry prof when I grow up, but I am scared because I am in high school right now. That means by the time I start teaching, kids will come into my class and not know how to add and subtract right. How am I supposed to teach them chemistry if we can’t do math the same way?

• Anonymous

The real problem here is trying to use logic to understand liberal progressive issues.

• Guardian

Logic – Liberal Progressive? No can do – they are diametrically opposed.

• Hoschi0913

that’s commie core right there for you

• Chuck

Thanks for demonstrating that you missed the entire point.

• Meg Norris

This is what happens when NON teachers design standards. This math program has been tried twice before and failed BOTH times. BUT PEARSON owned the curriculum being pushed on schools and since they had a seat at the table during the design process, they got to write the standards. The Math standards STOP at Algebra 2. No child interested in a selective college will ever be admitted without pre-calculus and calculus. The Common Core was designed to send kids to 2 year, non-selective community colleges. Common Core does not prepare for any STEM studies. Look up Jason Zimba on you tube. He says it in a conversation with Sandra Stotsky. The selective colleges are now exclusively for private and homeschool kids. Additionally, your large schools are opening their admissions up to more international students while our kids are expected to go directly into the workforce from high school.

• Hilary Cherry

This just proves the theory that we did not originally come from Neanderthals. History doesn’t repeat itself, people do. If you take intelligent human beings, remove their tools, weapons and language, (Spoken, Written and Mathematical)… you’re left with Cavemen. Before you know it, we won’t be able to make fire for personal use or even bathe for fear of wasting water. I can appreciate a different thought process, and problem solving, but I have a lot of mixed feelings about this. Why get drilled about “why the wheel works” and just use it to get to work… trying to change the world for good! Couldn’t Common-Core just be an elective or another kind of math class? Like Creative Writing, I’m sure this makes sense to some and they believe in it whole-heartedly. However, not everyone is alike. It seems to me, we arguably could be slowing the learning process… This could potentially be devistating… Ugh.

• Nate Kantner

ok, so what if the problem was 405-316? is it better to use an algorithm or common sense?

• Anne Rezabek

Dear Jack, I have a BA in Journalism. I saw that the number line went up in tens until it got to 107. It jumped to 127, skipping 117. Common Core focuses on developing critical thinking skills. The goal of the problem was to find the error, not solve the equation. That the answer was incorrect was a given.

• Deckard426

Dear Jack,
If a dude have 2 hoes an a brick a black hollies, how he can git a 9mm up in a club, when he mule not packin?

• Anonymous

From what is presented and shown here, I think, now of course I’m not sure, after all, who is, but I think, that they might be trying to teach two things. One, how to subtract numbers from one to ten from each other, and two, the difference of the units, tens and hundreds places. Of course, if they had that information, then the three step answer is evident, not the ten step number line mess.

But then, again, I may be trying to simplify and see what they are trying to teach in this commonly muddled core thingy. Does the teacher even understand it, and then teach it to the children?

And I would like to make it a law, if we must have common core math in schools, a law that the school administration use it exclusively in their financial and other math-related daily applications, if it is so wonderful.

Well, administration, can’t we teach what we use? Gummint must use it, too.

Laus Deo

• Sylvia Swasey

I am a teacher in a district that has been on the common core band wagon for several years now. This problem is not necessarily a common core problem. It is an example of another older band wagon called right brained approach to math. In the 90 s math was taught with the left brained approach of algorithms that most of us use and recognize. But the kids with a right brained learning style were not understanding math. So the pendulum swung to teaching math with the right brained approach. This was supposed to “fix” all the problems. This pendulum swing is the underlying problem in education, thinking that some new, wonderful, program is going to fix everything. Common Core is just the newest swing in the pendulum.

• Brie

It’s a little like the phonics vs whole language pendulum isn’t it…

• Kat

This is all junk invented to make some people much money. Changing things just to sell more books is a ripoff and very hard on the kids and parents. People are getting lazy and wanting things done for them. Teachers used to make their own worksheets and tests. Then if a parent had a problem with a homework assignment they could ask directly the person who designed it. Now it is deigned by a faceless person far away who, I’m beginning to wonder, may never have learned the work themselves. I want to see learning as using a brain not photocopiers that never understand but can pass tests. Go back to the old thinking of K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid!)

• Brie

I don’t understand how someone who claims to have a BS in Electronics Engineering can’t use a number line… Number lines are not new and not Common Core. They’ve been around long before Common Core and they won’t go anywhere even if Common Core does… I think he’s just been told Common Core is evil and the work of (insert group he doesn’t like here). Let me help you out Glenn, 427-316 is not as simple as 7-6 =1, 2-1=1, 4-3=1. That thinking is actually wrong and part of the reason that students in the US are failing! Now, if you’d like to use the standard algorithm, let’s do it correctly. You should say, 7-6 =1, 20-10 = 10 and 400-300=100 giving you 111. Your thinking is why my students can’t use and convert within the metric system, it’s why they don’t understand decimals. They have absolutely no concept of the base 10 system.

Let me ask this question… What is wrong with students knowing different ways to solve problems? What is wrong with students having to explain and use evidence to support their thinking? What is wrong with learning a new way to do something? “New” is all around us… Do you have the same phone you had in 3rd grade? Why use a new phone if the old one works just as well?

I’m not saying Common Core is perfect, but to say that “My kids shouldn’t have to learn this because I can’t understand it,” is selfish. You want your kids to miss out on something because you don’t get it?!? Because it’s too hard for you?!?! Selfish, selfish, selfish… You should want better for your kids! You should want them to be able to do things you can’t do.

Maybe instead of whining, you could try learning… Just a thought!

• Aubrey

But the point you made…It’s actually 400 – 300 etc…IS what I was taught in school 45 years ago without the use of a number line. However, admittedly I did exactly as you suggested people do. I judged common core before learning what it was about. That being said, I have not found anything to redeem it. I don’t disagree that our children need to understand what you stated. I just don’t know that THIS is the way to do it.

Common core OVERALL is terrible. It takes the role the parents SHOULD be playing away. Teaching elementary children about alternative lifestyles and how to wear a condom is unacceptable. Those concepts should be taught by family, not elementary schools. Perhaps those things could be addressed in HIGH SCHOOL but elementary age children should never learn these things at school.

I can understand why you support the math standards. I was an exceptional math student, and, so far, have had no difficulty understanding any of the math problems I’ve seen. I’ve been a bit confused at times about the WHY on some of the requirements, especially for kindergarten or first grade.

I refer back to my first statement…that I (and the students I attended school with) learned and understood the concept of 400 – 300, etc. Perhaps it is not the standards for students that need to be changed, but the requirements that teachers themselves actually understand what they are teaching BEFORE they attempt to teach it. The quality of teachers these days is horrible (I would think that, as a teacher, you would be one of the better ones. You actually explained something most teachers don’t seem to understand today). I have watched from the time I was in school thru my children’s school years and now into my grandchild’s schooling. When I was in school a teacher would not have dared to give out a worksheet to students filled with misspelled words, grammatical errors, and outright mistakes on subject information. But that happened when my older son was in 2nd grade. I hit the roof. The teacher (she was actually a student teacher) was disciplined. These days, I’ve seen all kinds of errors. And so few parents get involved.

Yes, it is a combination of problems…from uninvolved parents to poor teachers. But is common core the solution? I don’t know.

• Brie

I think you lost me in your second paragraph, where is teaching alternative lifestyles and condom use to elementary students in the Common Core? Can you give me the standard/domain? Maybe it’s something the state you are in added? Or is it part of the curriculum that your state/district is using to support the Common Core. My school district uses the standards, but we have not adopted curriculum to support it. I really am trying to understand. I will admit that my school has only started implementing Common Core in the last 2 years and fully implemented it this year. It’s been a nightmare because we are trying to do common core and the old standards for the state test… Perhaps this is why I am so confused as to why people are up in arms. I get to choose what methods my students use to solve Math problems, and as long as students have more than one way that works for them, we’ve met our objective, Most of our reading still comes from a basil reader, but I supplement with grade level appropriate trade books…

I agree, I don’t know if common core is the solution either. I’m just not sure we should throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. I’ve only just begun hearing the uproar over the common core and I’m trying to figure out what the root of the problem is. Sadly I don’t know if it’s about the standards, the curriculum being used to support it, or something differently entirely.

• Aubrey

I have to admit it’s been a while since that particular tidbit came to my attention. If I remember correctly, it was a TN addition. I’ll be the first to admit I couldn’t verify the veracity of the particular story I read. Since I don’t currently have custody of my grandson, I’m not involved with his everyday schoolwork, so I can’t say for sure what he is learning (his mother and I don’t have a good relationship…she is unwilling to put aside personal feelings to do what is best for her child).

I think many people feel as I do: the federal government has no business in education. The constitution does not give that power to it. I believe that is the root of the objection by many. Beyond that, change is frightening and so many don’t know how to deal with it.

As I stated in my previous post, I believe our poor performance in education is related to a number of factors. I feel uninvolved parents and poor teachers are the top of the list. Rather than setting up this giant, expensive experiment called Common Core, perhaps it would have been better to address the problems with poor teaching. After all, the school cannot legally require the parent to be involved (though the parents should be. That is the choice they make when they choose to have a child).

As for the objections to CC? Most of what I hear is about the curriculum, not the standards, though I’m not always sure those who are objecting know the difference. (As I’ve learned more about it, I’ve come to understand there is a big difference.)

• Brie

Unfortunately I fear some teachers are blamed for the fact that parents are not involved in their child’s education. When you have parent’s that don’t care, more often than not you get children don’t care. That’s not to say there aren’t bad teachers, I’m not so naive to believe that there are not poor teachers. My son had one in 3rd grade. Let’s just say that was her last year at my son’s school.

I’m finding the same issue of people who object to the common core not knowing the difference between the standards and a curriculum adopted to support the standards. My district has no curriculum at this point so I’ve actually been online getting materials and lessons from many different sources. I take what I like and what I think will work best for my kids and ignore the rest. I hope it stays that way, but I doubt it. I’ve seen that they’ve been looking at a couple. One is out of New York and the other, Texas. So after they adopt you may see me with a whole different view! Luckily my district is very good about allowing us professional judgement and supplementing where we feel it is needed.

• Aubrey

I agree with your assessment that uninvolved parents generally translates to students who don’t care. My grandson is in kindergarten and his POS mother cannot be bothered about his schooling. He is very smart, but he is failing. I blame it on her more than anything. He has missed about 35 days this school year. He is enrolled in the 3rd school since the beginning of the year. He has had lice 5 times since Christmas…and he’s not getting them at school. SHE can’t be bothered with treating her other 2 children, herself, and her home to clear them up. (EVERY TIME he comes to us, I have to treat him before we can do anything else.) She accuses me of trying to stir up trouble if I tell her he has lice.

When I work with him he does great. Understands the math skills required for his age, recognizes his letters, can read on grade level, etc. I have literally begged her to allow me to be included in parent/teacher conferences. She will not include me (when she can actually be bothered with them) because she hates me. Perhaps that is because every major thing he has been taught in his life…from being weaned from the bottle to potty training to tying his shoes…I taught him. (He was 2 when I weaned him. She had no plans to do it and it was well past time.) I taught him to tie his shoes 2 weeks before he started kindergarten. I know there will be some who think I overstep my place as a grandmother. But the child needs someone to do these things because she won’t. I despair the child is going to continue to fail. We even offered to pay for a tutor. But because it was from me, she wouldn’t have it. I don’t think he needed a tutor at first…but he does now so he might have a chance to catch up.

I know that poor teachers are not the majority. However, they are a higher percentage than when I and even my children were in school. The poor teachers simply take stuff straight out of the curriculum they are handed and use the worksheets, regardless of whether there are errors on them or not. Based on the things you have said, I don’t think you would be that lazy. Teachers must be vigilant about materials they give out to students. No matter the class you are teaching, if you hand out a history worksheet with misspelled words, etc, that is simply unacceptable. And I have seen it happen.

As for the NY curriculum your school is looking at, of the things I’ve seen of it, I think it is bad. It might serve you well to research it if you haven’t already. I know nothing about the TX curriculum. If your school does adopt that NY curriculum, I bet you won’t like it.

Good luck. I think your students probably have a better chance than many. You seem to care. You have a better chance of reaching those kids with uninvolved parents.

• Anonymous

I’m a grandfather who’s lucky enough to have his grandchildren in his home nearly every day. My wife has taken care of both my granddaughter and my grandson, and from Thursday afternoon on, I take on this assignment. I shouldn’t really call it that because to me, it’s like a gift from God every day. We’ve also been blessed that our daughter and her husband have a wonderful relationship with us. We ARE allowed to be very involved in the children’s lives. I don’t go to parent/teacher conferences, but I don’t need to. There is nothing that I would not do for my grandchildren and when I hear of grandparents who neither know their grandchildren nor care, I am flabbergasted.
These little children are the greatest blessing in our lives and they put into perspective all that is truly important in life and gives both purpose and meaning to everything we do. You are not too involved in your grandchild’s life. You are the best thing in his life and it is worth every inconvenience and every humiliation that you have to endure in order to be there as the one fixed point in his otherwise chaotic existence. NEVER feel that you are too involved. You may be the only thing that will make a difference in his life and for that, you have my enduring respect and appreciation.

• Aubrey

Thank you.

• Carrie Geren Scoggins

COMMON CORE, A MARXIST “COLLECTIVIST,” BOARD DECIDING WHAT OUR SCHOOLS WILL BE ALLOWED TO TEACH, RATHER THAN ALLOWING THE DIVERSITY OF THE INDIVIDUAL TEACHERS THE FREEDOM TO TEACH AS THEY DEEM APPROPRIATE.

Proverbs 11:14

in the multitude of counselors there is safety.

COMMON CORE:

IN A MULTITUDE OF COUNSELORS THERE ARE SAFETY, PROVERBS.

COMMON CORE DEMANDS THAT ONLY A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE DECIDE FOR THE WHOLE NATION WHAT OUR YOUTH IS TAUGHT.

THAT IS NOT A MULTITUDE OF COUNSELORS, AND OPPOSES THE WISDOM OF PROVERBS!

KEEPING EDUCATION ON A LOCAL LEVEL ALLOWS A DIVERSITY OF EDUCATORS, AND NOT JUST ONE SMALL COLLECTIVIST BOARD/BUREAU DECIDING WHAT THE STATE WILL SANCTION FOR SCHOOLS TO TEACH. WHEN THE STATE IS IN CONTROL OF WHAT SCHOOLS TEACH, IT WILL BECOME A FORUM FOR POLITICAL PROPAGANDA.

KARL MARX’S COLLECTIVISM, WHERE A SMALL GROUPS DECIDES FOR EVERYONE WHAT WILL BE FOR THE “COLLECTIVE GOOD,” OR GOOD OF THE GROUP, IS A FAILED MENTALITY THAT IMPEDES THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL.

MARXISM ONLY ALLOWS A SMALL GOVERNMENT BOARD TO DECIDE FOR THE WHOLE, WHAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL ALLOW.

WE ARE NOT A MARXIST COLLECTIVIST NATION! THOMAS JEFFERSON SUPPORTED THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL RATHER THAN A COLLECTIVE GOOD.

DO NOT ALLOW A COLLECTIVIST MARXIST BOARD TO DECIDE WHAT PUBLIC SCHOOLS WILL BE ALLOWED TO TEACH OUR NATIONS CHILDREN!

“PHOTOS WITH MEANING” BLOGSPOT.COM

• Chuck

Are you trying to say something?

• aa

Electronics engineers don’t get Bachelor of Science degrees they get Bachelor of Engineering degrees. BOOM. Take that frustrated dad.

• Anonymous

Excuse me, but I have a degree in ciovil engineering and my diploma reads Bachelor of Science, Civil Engineering. Of course my dgree was back in 1972 so things may be different now. I went to a strictly engineering school and al the degrees began with BS followed by the diceipline. CE, EE, IE, ME, ChE, the masters degrees were MS-CE, MS-EE, etc.

• Anonymous

No, they haven’t changed. The guy is just completely clueless.

• Anonymous

^in your own words, boom, you’re a schwag who knows nothing about college degrees.

• Anonymous

Spoken like a person who has no college education. The colleges don’t award bachelor of engineering degrees. They award bachelor of science (B.S.) or bachelor of arts (B.A.) degrees IN engineering, English, biology, etc.

• Joshua

Why shut down centuries old math that has been PROVEN to work? I mean the use of 4-4 = 0 was established by Fibonnacci to replace Roman Numerals around 1200 AD and that was over 900 years ago. Why throw out 900 years of math for a misguided concept that a “simpleton” thought up?

• Tino

one more reason for kids to start hating math at a young age. i liked it when it was just “Jack got 3 rows on candies, the first row had 4, 2nd had 2, third had 7, he took 3 from the first, 1 from the 2nd and 6 from the third, how much did he have left?” i think that is enough… but already too much, why not just teach the kids how to add and subtract, and then add on to that without all this bullcrap? oh right, this is america where tests/curriculums have these questions that have nothing to do with actually solving a problem (which is what we go to school for and what life is, find a problem, solve it.). there we have it, why kids hate math at school these days…

• hightonemofo

I don’t know who’s dumber…the frustrated parent or Glen Beck. While getting all those high math degrees, he should have learned to read and comprehend. The task was to “Find Jack’s Error…”. I found it rather easily – he counted backwards using tens rather than ones, that problem was solved easily with the information given. Should have been esp easy Mr. Severt with his “high mathematics”…now that you have your 15m of fame, go back to the rock you used to live under – IDIOT!!!

• Anonymous

The problem is not finding Jacks mistake as you pointed out. The problem is that Common Core takes a simple math problem and turns it into a complicated process. There is good reason for memorization of basic math facts so why make the problem harder? What happens when you have a string of say 10 numbers to add? This technique is not very effective and even in simple addition and subtraction is a waste of time.

• Brie

By that point, students are using the traditional algorithm or a calculator… You may see it as a waste of time, but another person may see it as a valuable tool. All of these methods have been around before Common Core…

• hightonemofo

What? Reading comprehension is the problem with u and the parent. Again, I state above what the “task” was for the student, which was to, “Find Jack’s Error”…They teach the basic way to add in schools as well, I have seen second grade math as my girlfriend teaches 2d grade…They will see the number line again for algebra and integers. Americans are always looking to find blame rather than find the solution.

• Anonymous

This is why kids in Asia are killing us in math.

• hightonemofo

• hightonemofo

Americans are always looking to find blame rather than find the solution.

• Anonymous

This is why kids in Asian countries are killing us in math.

• Sharon K Erdely

I was glad to hear that Indiana dumped the common core idea. Now the rest of the states should tell our government to stick it.

• Jessica H.

Common Core isn’t implemented by the federal government. Nor is it manditory. States are voluntarily choosing to use Common Core.

• Anonymous

will it teach people like you how to spell “mandatory” correctly?

• Jessica H.

People like me? lol what does that mean? And my apologies for missing the “a” and typing in an “i”… the world’s obviously going to end now because I type quickly and misused a letter.

• Anonymous

I’d bet that it’s implementation is tied to federal funding in some manner.

• Anonymous

Wrong. Common Core is part of a federal program called Race to the Top. School districts were offered federal dollars for agreeing to adopt it. The standards came from the same advocates of a national school curriculum that are dedicated to the push for national education conformity at the federal level, unconstitutionally removing state and local control over education standards. There are three groups that wrote the national standards, Achieve, Inc, the National Governors Association and the Council of Chief State School Offices, all of which are private organizations. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is the main driver of Common Core. Federal money is what drove the inculcation of Common Core and it is money that has attracted the states to the program without the slightest knowledge of exactly what that agreement would require of the states, nor how much it would ultimately cost.
Secretary of Education Arnie Duncan is a huge proponent of CC. In 2009, the stimulus bill included an educational grant program called Race to the Top. In order to get money from CC, they had to agree, without ever having seen the standards, to adopt the common core curriculum. The announcement of the federal government’s adoption of the standards came out in November 2009, but the deadline for the application for the money was due two months later. In most states, no discussion occurred at all as to whether this was a good idea or what the acceptance of the money would mean.
Between the months of November and January, the deadline, most state legislatures are not in session, so the decision to apply for the money was made by the states’ Education secretaries. The CC standards were finally released in June of 2010 and states were given until the end of August to sign the final paperwork committing to adopting the standards. As in the application deadline, there was only two summer months for states to make the decision to agree to the standards and accept the money. None of the states presented the idea to their state legislatures because of the time. Many states were desperate for money and were wiling to do almost anything to get it. Thus, they agreed, without ever having sought legislative approval, the CC standards.
Additionally, if states adopt CC, they are waived from the most demanding provisions of the “No Child Left Behind” mandates by the federal government. There are two national state consortiums that developed the national testing standards under a \$360,000,000 grant for national test development. When that money runs out, it is up to the taxpayers to fund it. The two state consortiums are called PARCC (Partnership of Assessment for Readiness for College Careers) and Smarter Balanced in Learning. The PARCC testing consultant is from the same progressive group that developed the CC standards in the first place, NOT the states. The Smarter Balanced test development is headed by a radical Stanford professor named Linda Darling Hammond, who has partnered with Bill Ayers (the domestic terrorist) on the education directives.
These tests can only be taken on computers that are dedicated to them. This type of testing is exorbitantly expensive because it is not paper tests that are sent to a testing facility for scanning and grading, it has to be done on the dedicated computers, which have to be paid for and maintained exclusively by the states, but by accepting the federal money, the states commit to doing just this.
No matter what you think, Common Core is NOT a state initiative. It is developed by the federal government and effectively delivers centralized curriculum control. And contrary to what our visiting proponent of leftist progressivism on this site, Brie, says, it is NOT just standards. It is also standardized testing that utilizes exactly the methods shown in the problem the father complained about. Teachers are forced to spend most of their time teaching their children strategies that enable them to pass the tests.
Long story short…this is NOT a state program, it is a federally funded plan and it has nothing to do with appropriate educational standards, but it has everything to do with federal control.

• Jessica H.

School districts were offered federal dollars for agreeing to implement ANY college or career-ready standards – not specifically Common Core.

• Anonymous

Nope. Race to the Top required a signed commitment to Common Core, not to ANY standard. I’m not certain where you’ve obtained your information, but it’s wrong.

• Jessica H.

It’s literally on the Common Core website in black and white. Research might help you.

• Anonymous

I really don’t care what the common core website states. It is the 2009 TARP legislation that first defined the process. The applications did not allow just any improved pre-collegiate program to qualify for the funding. The actual core standards had to be agreed to, including a provision that states, “(2) Implementing Collection and Use of Data-The State will establish a longitudinal data system that includes the schematics describe in section 6401 of the America Competes Act.”
The America Competes Act application requirements were described in the Race to the Top executive summary that can be found ad ed.gov. On Feb. 14, 2013, the federal publication Promoting Grit, Tenacity, and Perseverance:Critical Factors for Success in the 21st Century, the extent of what the states had agreed to when they signed on the dotted line accepting the Common Core standards, testing and curriculum was revealed. The states agreed that previously private information about the students and their families, including health histories for the entire family, including imaging, income information, voting status for the family, blood types, hair color, eye color, prematurity, birthmarks, bus stop arrival times, etc. has to be tracked and sent to the federal government. Data that adds up to approximately 48 pages per child on average. That was legally implemented as part of the America Competes Act. The actual requirements can be found under FERPA (Federal Educational Rights and Privacy Act): FERPA 101: FERPA Basics. The data collection has to follow the exact standards required by the TARP legislation through the America Competes Act. The state, as part of the application process, has to certify that they will utilize the EXACT Common Core standards laid out in the legislation.
The Common Core website attempts to reassure parents that there is nothing to worry about but NONE of the actual Common Core legislation or state application certifications is contained in the website. Perhaps it’s you that needs to do some research beyond believing a government propaganda website.

• Jessica H.

I figured out the answer… he missed the 10’s. The question is find the error, not find the answer. Jack basically did 427-100-100-100-1-1-1-1-1-1=121 He should have done 427-100-100-100-10-1-1-1-1-1-1=111 They’re trying to get kids to use critical thinking to find errors in this particular problem using their 100’s, 10’s and 1’s on a number line. It’s challenging, and I was never taught this way but that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong way to teach. Common Core is a set of standards to used to teach, but it’s completely up to the districts and the teachers on HOW they want to teach it. If kids are falling behind then I would look at how it’s being taught on the teacher-student level and how much attention a child who isn’t “getting it” is being given. I’m not saying Common Core is perfect, but I understand why it was created and why states are electing to use it. In the end, what will matter most is how it’s executed.

• Anonymous

It is designed to remove math skills from the population at large. If you cannot balance your checkbook then you cannot question the government’s numbers.
Just as confusing kids and rubbing away their math skills removes power from the hands of the people, removing cursive writing removes a citizens ability to actually read the documents on which this country was founded and removes them from having the ability to read the journals and histories of their ancestors.
The ‘educators’ in this country can go find a nice big pile and sand and spend their days pounding it up each other’s @\$\$’es.
I will determine what my kids learn, period.

• Anonymous

It kills me when I see cashiers struggle to give change when the customer gives them coins or bills to round up the change they are getting so you get say a 10.- bill instead of \$9.58 in mixed paper and coins..
Whatever you do don’t grab 2 of something if it is 3 for 1.-

• Anonymous

explanation: jack’s error was attending a schwag public school with schwag pedagogy, like using number lines to solve simple subtraction problems.

what jack did right: showing patience and grace under pressure as his intellectual future is jeopardized by a bunch of schwag, bureaucratic policy wonks, their feelgood approach to education, and substantively void lip service to genuine critical thinking.

proof: the schwag performance of american public school children in math, relative to the rest of the civilized world.

• Jeff Peters

What kind of liberal school did that parent go to that didn’t teach him logic? Obviously, the “Jack” removed 3 sets of 100 and 6 sets of 1 instead of 16 sets of 1. I want to know what college he went to and who I can send a letter demanding his bachelors degree to be revoked because he clearly did not deserve it. The test is not the problem. It is a dumb parent with a fake degree.

• hightonemofo

Thank u posting something rational. That problem should not have been so hard for the math wiz parent. Find Jack’s error was the error, which was he counted down with tens versus ones. “Frustrated Parent” and Glen Beck have made complete idiots of themselves (a familiar objective for Beck).

• prettyhomedecor

agreed

• ksmith Smith

Yes good job on dumping a CCSS program where your state will become farther behind in Education than most states already are – it’s people like Tom who are the un-educated ones, that us hard working taxpayers are taking care of because children are not being pushed with a rigorous education… Tom must have enjoyed being mediocre in school. It shows –

• Jacob Yorton

Talk about confusing kids! On top of that, my creative brain screams at me that the number line is not to scale. The space given for a 100 is the same as the space given for four 10s. Any kid who thinks more creatively just got even more confused by this horrible visual approach!

Why is it so hard to just do 427-316 with just numbers? Why make math even more confusing with this Common Core crap? Teach basic math in the simplest way possible.

If this is how liberals want to do math, no wonder we don’t have a balanced budget!

• Anonymous

Jack subtracted 100 100 and 100 (3 times)
then subtracted 1 1 1 1 1 and 1 (6 times)

BUT forgot to subtract 10 (1 time).

So Jack got 427 – 306 = 121 instead of 427 – 316 = 111.

I am sure many engineering parents were able to help their kids solve this homework problem, but the spotlight goes on the one who couldn’t and made noise about it on facebook.

And the problem here is common core?

• Penny McElroy

I figured out the reason for having math problems take so much time–during testing, the students CANNOT leave the test room until the time is up, whether the test is complete or not. Having so many steps to do each problem, takes enough time. But, when the 2 hours are up, NO ADDITIONAL TIME is allowed for the students to complete the test. If the test is not completed, anything unanswered is AUTOMATICALLY WRONG–FAIL, or test scores so low the students barely pass the test.

• Bill McCallum

Read the standards. Of the two methods presented here, the one is explicitly required by the standards is the “old fashioned way,” the one the parent wants. The standards require fluency with addition and subtraction using the standard algorithm. Previous standards (including Indiana’s) did not. The parent had better hope Indiana keeps this requirement.

• http://www.edayrescomedy.com smooth edward

The point of the problem is to teach process using a specific methodology. Arriving at the correct answer with speed and simplicity is irrelevant. Welcome to the new order of education.

• hightonemofo

they still teach the traditional way. my girlfriend teaches second grade and the workbook has more pages of the traditional way than questions like the example given. They also use color in block squares to add as well.

• Anonymous

Sometimes I wonder if people remember from when they were younger, the section of books marked “word problems” or something like that. You don’t just have exercises. You also are tested to see if you have a deeper understanding. Maybe today they have augmented the word problem section (or teach more methods than in the past), but it’s nothing new.

• hightonemofo

BINGO!!!

• Anonymous

If you are teaching Russian, it doesn’t matter that you can get the right answer faster by speaking English instead of Russian to an English-speaking Russian. The actual methodology is what is being tested. This is not new or unique to US education.

• James Peters

This isn’t Russian; it’s mathematics. Choosing an appropriate approach for the given problem and following that approach to arrive at the correct answer is the basis for the entire subject. The whole idea of “Jack used this stupid, useless, overcomplicated approach and got the wrong answer. Using Jack’s stupid, useless, overcomplicated approach, how can Jack eventually reach the correct answer in more than 3x the time it takes for any normal person to do the same work?” is just wrong for a math class. I’m not sure it’s right for any class, but certainly it’s wrong for a math class.

• April Lynn

This new style of teaching uses a Collectivistic approach on an individualistic culture. This takes away from our individual differences. Why did the government change the math approach when it is simplistic and easier for kids to learn?

• Anonymous

I have no idea what you mean by “Collectivistic approach”. The problem tests if you can spot an error. It uses a mythical “Jack” as a model, something math problems have been doing for a long time. There is nothing here about the interdependence of humans on each other.

• James Peters

The error was spotted: it was the use of a number line. The correct approach was then demonstrated along with the correct answer.

A+.

• MsPengwn

Sadly, this MATH homework not only asks the student to find an error but write a letter to this imaginary character as to what he did right & where he went wrong & how he should do it. Word problems in math are not new…”finding the error” questions are not new….but showing (writing out) the quick, correct formula in which to easily solve the problem seems the BEST way to demonstrate logical thinking/problem solving skills…not WRITING A LETTER to an imaginary character about where he went wrong & what he should have done in using this longer math process. Talk about inefficiency!

• Anonymous

The letter writing is another way to say that the student is expected to explain rather than merely write 427 – 316 = 111. This is not new.

• James Peters

I had lots of teachers who marked down my answers in math classes for not showing my work. I still got most of the credit and usually ended up with an A- to a B+. Didn’t need to show the work when it was simple enough to do in my head. Didn’t really need to show any work until hitting more complicated problems in higher level algebra and then calculus classes.

Maybe it’s worth treating kids as individuals and not trying to force them all to learn at the same level of the lowest common denominator. Maybe if we did that, we’d stop churning out idiots who can’t compete in the global marketplace.

• Anonymous

In teaching math, it’s not enough usually to tell a student who got 427 – 316 to incorrectly equal 121 that 427 – 316 instead is 111, end of story.

A tutor or teacher instead sees what the student (let’s call the student “Jack”) did and then tries to explain the mistake. If you understand what is going on, then you should be able to explain it, essentially playing the role of a teacher.

Asking to explain your answer is nothing new in education and does test for understanding at a higher level.

Again, lots of parents likely were able to figure this out and didn’t post on facebook. They didn’t make the 11 o’clock news special, however.

• GOBACKHOMEPOLTICIANS

The biggest problem IMO in this country is common sense is rarer than gold. I run across many people who cannot even begin to tell you how to change a flat tire let alone do it. Or people who do not even know where their water comes from, all they know is it comes out the tap when they lift the handle.

• Anonymous

If people are educated on those details, then it can be common sense. If they are not then it would not be.

Are you going to complain that people of 50 years ago didn’t know how to post to facebook? As time flows, the set of skills that are important change.

• amy

Common Core does not dictate the method for how something is taught, only the standard to which it should be. Complain to the school district about methodology – not the standard.

• GOBACKHOMEPOLTICIANS

The standards should be much higher, yet we allow students who fail and their parents to essentially rewrite them so everyone can pass. Just like the everyone gets a trophy mentality. Instead of giving kids a pass we should help them understand the REAL WORLD will never give you a free pass, we should tell every kid in this country, you are not special, you are no body until you prove otherwise. We have children being raised as if some magic fairy will give them something to get them out of their lot in life into something better, instead of them knowing they will have to work for it through their own blood, sweat and tears…dam I pity this country’s future with ignorance on display such as yours.

• Brie

While I agree with you to a point, I think you are missing what Amy was trying to say, and I hope she’ll correct me if I misunderstand as well. It appears that people are taking 2 issues and combining them into one. There are standards that tell what to teach at each grade level. For example, subtraction of multiple digit numbers. Then there is curriculum which tells teachers how those standards should be taught. For example, a number line. So, if you don’t like the method you have a problem with the curriculum. If you think subtraction should or shouldn’t be taught at a certain grade level, then you have a problem with the standards. They are 2 different things. In my state, many of the standards are the same. A few have been taken out (I will admit I won’t miss teaching Euler or Hamilton paths and circuits) Others have been moved to lower or higher grade levels.

• Jeff Severt

If interested, take a couple of minutes to read the real backstory here. Context is everything:

• Anonymous

Thanks for the context. We are all over the map.

Every person is in a unique context and the we have not in 2014 yet laid down the software to enable personalized “optimal” teaching. There is also some truth that a person that works harder will achieve more than working less hard. Since we all start in a different place, this would mean that some would have to work harder in some aspects of the problem than in others to end up at the same place.

In any case, I think it is important that learning be accessible lifelong and that people not be discouraged from learning.

• Anonymous

As an aside, one problem I have had with number lines is that it is difficult to do very many problems and accurately represent scale. And I think representing scale accurately is important (blocks make that easier). I was writing simple software once to make it easy to both see scale and gain from the simplicity of using a number line (but I got distracted with other things so didn’t finish).

• Anonymous

When I was young, I had a very difficult time writing in a formal context (and I didn’t write “for fun” outside of school). What helped me a lot (after high school) was writing journal entries since I was writing only to myself (so I understood whatever I would write.. no excuse there) and the pressure was off so I would write much more frequently.

If you think communicating with others is an important part of life or of your goals in life (and your kid may one day think this), it would help to lower the bar as much as possible to gaining practice in writing if you currently lack the ability/willingness to express in writing. Feeling comfort in failing is important to overcoming those weaknesses since we’ll need the practice (and for most people, it’s too easy to avoid the pain/shame/etc and just focus on some other skill we already value more).

• Renee Galgiani

How did this guy get his degree without being able to logic out this simple method. If you ask me they are dumbing down methods not complicating them.

• Anonymous

The scale is wrong. The father was frustrated also. [See the “backstory” link below.]

• hightonemofo

the task was not to solve the math raw numbers, it was to recognize Jack’s method/process for using the number line. The scale is not wrong. Sufficient info is there to answer the question.

• Anonymous

The scale is wrong. The [jumps] that are 1 unit apart are not 1/100th the length of the jumps that represent 100 units. Please don’t make me pull out a ruler.

• Anonymous

A piece of the task may have been to correctly solve the raw numbers since it makes your answer more complete.

• James Peters

He did answer the question. The requirements were to find Jack’s error and tell Jack what he did wrong. The letter identified Jack’s error correct: Jack used a number line, and doing so was stupid. It then told Jack how to correctly identify the error without using a stupid, overcomplicated, dumb process and it demonstrated how the correct process leads to a simple, fast, correct result.

• Anonymous

Correct result when a second grader is asked “427-316 is how much?” but not necessarily correct when the second grader is instead asked “whose house is 316 feet from a park that is 427 feet down the block?”

• James Peters

They’re both dumbing down and overcomplicating the methods. They’re accomplishing this feat of idiocy by taking a simple process and breaking it out into an absurd number of ridiculously simple steps; steps so simple that the bottom end of the Bell Curve can follow along while everyone east of the middle scratches their heads wondering why they can’t use a simple, quick, correct method to solve the problem.

I think the father here couldn’t figure out the number line because he isn’t dumb enough to think in the terms necessary to follow the number line. I’m sure if he drank a large bottle of Jack Daniels and popped some Ambien, he’d eventually lose enough working grey matter to understand how it’s supposed to work. Hopefully he doesn’t and hopefully his kid doesn’t either.

We’re preparing kids to be unemployably stupid.

• Mike

The dad kind of sounds like a jerk. Who cares what degree he holds.
The problem is actually quite simple. Jack used a number line to
subtract 3 – 100s and then 6 – 1s. Hence he subtracted 306 from 427 not
316. He forgot to use a “10” in the number line. It is not that
difficult. This is actually a fairly ingenious way to help kids think
outside the box. Yes, perhaps this is “over complicating” a simple subtraction problem, but the idea behind it is to identify the problem not solve subtraction.

• Anonymous

Part of the frustration (see “backstory” link below) was that the kid has significant trouble writing and apparently was not able to successfully comply with the math requirements without being able to write clearly. It was a frustrating evening, and the letter was apparently written only for consumption by the teacher.

• hightonemofo

The dad is a jerk. Jack’s “error” assuming he wrote the descending 10 place counts going left from 127, is that the number line increments should have been counted as one’s rather than ten’s…had the number line kept going, he would have wound up at 111. But as you correctly state, the object was not to solve subtraction.

• Beth

I agree that this number line approach is a great way to model the subtraction problem that builds understanding of the concept of subtraction, of seeing a number as a sum of its place-value parts, of developing mental math skills as opposed to utilizing algorithms. The point of the activity was not to get the answer to the subtraction problem but to analyze a process thereby discovering the error(s). The value of that experience far outweighs the ability to use basic computation skills to get the answer, in my opinion, It is really hard to get some kids to engage in this type of analysis and discourse (which is at the heart of common core). They would rather do a whole page of basic subtraction computation, be praised for their efforts and then allowed to have “free time” for the rest of the class. There are also kids who do engage in these activities willingly and with interest. While I firmly believe in the teaching of standard algoriths and computational skills (and the necessity of student mastery of these skills), I support the effort to develop conceptual and analytical skills as well.

• James Peters

I understand that the point of the activity was to analyze a process to discover the errors. And he did that. The error in the process was the use of a number line. Problem identified. The solution was to use a working, functional, simple process to arrive at the correct answer. That process was demonstrated and used to find the correct answer.

All in all, I give it 100% + some extra credit for identifying the proper process and the correct result.

• Anonymous

I think you misunderstood the error. There is a reason to understand number lines. This problem has a clear error in the use of the number line. You are going out on a limb to call the very use of number lines an error rather than to identify the obvious subtraction flaw suggested in Jack’s use of that number line.

• James Peters

The dad sounds frustrated, and understandably so. I agree with you that the problem is quite simple and you started out great describing it: “Jack used a number line”. That’s it: problem identified. Move on. Jack’s problem has nothing to do with the number he came up with; that’s just a symptom. His process was flawed and it was flawed because it was overly complicated and dumb all at the same time. Jack is well on his way to being unemployable.

• Anonymous

What does subtraction mean? What does it mean in terms of going distances to places or asking about distances?

If you don’t understand how subtraction associates with a number line, you probably don’t realize how to answer some of these questions adults take for granted but children at some point don’t know how to solve. We are talking about a second grader. If all you know is the manipulations on numbers named “subtraction”, you are not picking up the math (understanding/intuition) needed as an adult.

So I disagree that the mistake Jack made was to use a number line. He tried it and failed. Understanding a number line is not a requirement to understanding subtraction of distances, but understanding it increases the chances you will understand the latter.

• nuggbugg

It was the same for me trying work with my daughter on a 3rd grade math assignment. I too am an EE and it was a simple enough problem but they turned what should have only taken a few steps and added a lot of useless steps…any time you have to use more steps to solve a problem there’s a greater chance of error. I tried to teach my daughter the easy way to do it and she said, “Nooo, that’s not how my teacher says to do it.” I brought this up at the parent teacher conference and the teacher agreed with me but basically said her hands were tied on the issue it’s the districts not the teachers who set the curriculum. America I’m begging you don’t use the Core Curriculum!

• Mary Endres

Sorry to disappoint you, but what you are complaining about has nothing to do with common core standards. Common core describes basis skills that kids should be taught (like counting to 10 or adding 2 digital numbers mentally). Common core says NOTHING about HOW to teach the skill. School districts pick the curriculum and textbooks. The teachers follow the textbooks. Teachers and book companies are aligning material to common core standards – basically saying ‘this lesson will help me teach this concept’. Your complaint is with the curriculum. Check out the common core web site and the standards before you complain about it. http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/2/OA/

• Mary Endres

People, please read about common core so you know what you are talking about. Common core covers basic concepts (like counting to 20 or adding 2 single digit numbers in your head) that should be taught. It does NOT say anything about HOW to teach the concept. The districts set the curriculum and select a textbook. The teacher follows the textbook. Check out the website http://www.corestandards.org/Math/Content/2/OA/

• Candy Kriegel

This reminds me about a formula I was supposed to memorize and use in college geometry. I don’t remember the formula and I never could understand it because it was so complicated. The formula was meant to indicate how to cover the most area, while taking up the least perimeter. Squares cover the most area and use the least perimeter space, so I would just use the numbers I was given and divide by 4. So easy! (I got an A in that college math class.)

• Guest

This is actually fairly simple and it’s not supposed to replace the “old ways” of adding and subtracting. It’s just a tool to help young kids double check their work before they learn how to easily add and subtract large numbers. I failed pre calculus in highschool. I never graduated college and failed college algebra and I can solve this so idk what that says about all of you who cant.

The line is just a tool to help the student/”Jack” visualize the subtraction problem so they/he can double check his work, you know in case he gets the wrong answer or if he’s not sure 111 is the right answer. Anyhow, you put the larger number at the right end 427 of the line, and then you plot points based off the placeholder vale for what you’re subtracting, 316.

3 points that equate 100, b/c there’s 3 in the hundred’s place holder
1 point that equals 10 b/c there’s 1 in the ten’s placeholder
6 points that equal 1 each, b/c there’s a six in the one’s place holder

so if you start at the right and subtract the values at each point you will end up with 111, or if you start at the left and add each of those values you’ll end up with 427. Jack’s mistake is that he left out the point for the tens place holder that equates to 10. you can figure that part out easily by noticing that there’s not enough points on the chart. There’s also a visual clue to help you out incase you don’t get it in regards to the sizes of arches over the points. BIG arches over the 100’s, little arches over the 1’s, but no medium sized arch for the 10.

And while some of you will still argue that it’s “too hard” or “to complicated” remember these are second graders who are 7&8. They haven’t mastered adding and subtracting large numbers in their heads, and they don’t get to have calculators in class and on tests like hs students do. This method teaches them a way to 1. double check their work, advances their math skills by making them perform multiple subtractions (practice makes perfect) and teaching them how to deconstruct a math problem, a skill that they’ll actually need to start developing as it serves use in future math classes they will be taking.

• John smith

I failed pre calculus in highschool. I never graduated college and only took college algebra, and even I can solve this so idk what that says about all of you who cant.

The line is just a tool to help the student/”Jack” visualize the subtraction problem so they/he can double check his work (2nd graders don’t get to use calculators) in case he gets the wrong answer or if he’s not sure 111 is the right answer. Anyhow, you put the larger number, 427, at the right end of the line, and the number you think is the answer at the left end. You then plot points based off the placeholder vale for what you’re subtracting or adding 316, (427-316, or 111+316)

3 points that equate 100, b/c there’s 3 in the hundred’s place holder
1 point that equals 10 b/c there’s 1 in the ten’s placeholder
6 points that equal 1 each, b/c there’s a six in the one’s place holder

so if you start at the right and subtract the values at each point you will end up with 111, or if you start at the left and add each of those values you’ll end up with 427. Jack’s mistake is that he left out the point for the tens place holder that equates to 10. you can figure that part out easily by noticing that there’s not enough points on the chart. There’s also a visual clue to help you out incase you don’t get it in regards to the sizes of arches over the points. BIG arches over the 100’s, little arches over the 1’s, but no medium sized arch for the 10.

While some of you will still argue that it’s too hard, complicated, or long, you’re wrong. It’s not hard, and it’s useful b/c it teaches young kids how to double check their work and how to think about a problem in more than one way. It also will advance their math skills b/c since their are more steps they’re doing more work and practice makes perfect. It also lays down the ideas of deconstructing math problems, an important skill that will at least be used in algebra I, II, pre-cal, and calculus, etc, it will also have applications when they take chemistry!

• James Peters

That method takes 10 steps to do and three paragraphs to explain. The correct method takes 3 steps to do and requires about three sentences if you’re quite verbose. I think the fact that you failed pre-calculus in high school and never got past algebra in college speaks to who they’re trying to reach with the number line.

I just think it’s a shame anyone east of the top of the Bell Curve has to sit through it.

• JC

there is a difference between just implementing a process to get the answer, and actually understanding the concepts behind how the answer came about.. just memorizing and implementing a process will only get you so far

• Susan Murphy

This is not Common Core. This is a basic math strategy I’ve been teaching for nearly twenty years. I feel badly for this kid if his father with a bachelor’s degree can’t see that “Jack” subtracted 360. Students need to understand what subtraction means. If this parent thinks this is some kind of advanced math, he has a long road of homework help ahead of him.

• Joseph

What Jack did was make an error – he used the number line and subtracted 100 three times, but instead of then subtracting 10, then 5, then 1 (316), Jack subtracted 6 groups of 10 (60) instead of the 16. Not defending this, but the exercise is not math, it is analysis of what was done wrong (assumes that you know the right method.)

• Anonymous

Good to see that the NEA has its paid shills out today trying to make it seem like there’s nothing wrong with this or common core…

• suncat

Wow! This was an easy problem for anyone taking pre-algebra! I was able to solve it in about ten minutes. I learned this stuff back in middle school (yes, in a public school) in 1971. Of course, looking at a worksheet without the advantage of a textbook or lecture could boggle some minds but still, how difficult is it to solve for an unknown?

• Feydd McLaughlin

perhaps it would be better to use 427 apples and then separate 316 out of that, then count what’s left over….if one could actually afford 427 apples at 5 dollars a bag for 6 apples. Hmmm, that might only create another math problem of “how much would it cost the school board to teach math to a child if they had to actually pay for this kind of teaching?”

• Dani Carey-Mooney

I like this question a lot. This question is teaching kids number sense with a visual. With a piece of paper I can take 316 from 427 in seconds (that’s the way we learned it)… but being able to compute and actually understanding what is happening are two very different things. You would just follow a formula without having any real understanding of how much is actually being subtracted. However, this question is asking kids to recognize (without it being spelled out for them with a handy-dandy formula) what subtracting 316 actually means. This problem sets a child up to think critically about subtraction.

To explain it: You subtract 300 (the first 3 jumps) then subtract 10 (the jump that is missing here and the thing that “Jack” got wrong) then subtract 6 (the last 6 jumps)… 3 hundreds, 1 ten, 6 ones. 316. This method is particular important for dealing with negative numbers. If 427 was negative the computing way that we learned wouldn’t work. You’d have to have memorized that you add them and make it negative. Memorization and computation aren’t helping anyone. Also doing math the “fast way” is for when you already have number sense, it’s a shortcut so it’s not necessary to draw the pictures. You have to understand it first though. This question is asking students to think critically, that’s why I like it so much.

• Guardian

Common Core is turning schools into re-education camps for liberalism, with political statements masquerading as English lessons. The material uses subliminal messages to change political views and behavior. As an example, a worksheet asks students to rewrite sentences to make them “less wordy.” Sentences like, “The commands of government officials must be obeyed by all.”

Other examples:

Sandra Stotsky (a leading education reform scholar) who served as a senior associate commissioner in the Massachusetts Department of Education and worked on the National Validation Committee for the Common Core State Systemic Initiative, writes in the Wall Street Journal that the national standards won’t help students get into selective colleges. She says that Common Core national standards are leaving students unprepared for science, technology, engineering and math (STEM)as they “…. who study under these standards won’t receive anywhere near the quality of education that children in the U.S. did even a few years ago…”

The new standards are forcing lessons to revolve around data and testing with methods and strategies that are counter-intuitive. “The standards were created by private organizations in Washington, D.C., without input from teachers or parents and absent any kind of study or pilot test to prove its effectiveness. In fact, the only mathematician and the only ELA [English Language Arts] expert on the validation committee refused to sign off on the standards because they are inadequate,” according to Glyn Wright, executive director of The Eagle Forum.

• Angela Burnett

Reading through the comments, what I really see is a political discussion. This is about math not democrats, and if more people concentrated on that maybe a resolution to the problem could be reached. I will say from my personal experiences I do not care for how math is being taught now compared to how it was taught when I learned it. I tried t go to college as an adult and had math, I was having to learn a whole new process to solve equations then what I had originally been taught. For some people this may be no big deal, however I have always been a slow learner at math and while when I get it I am good, it has always taken me sometime to get it. I have always been able to help my son and other kids with their math work, because I could read through the chapter they were on and figure out how do do the work. Now when trying to help my (now in high school son) with his homework I have to turn to Google. I don’t understand any of it! To me this is the real problem. If it worked before and kids were learning and it was correct, why change it? Is it easier or better for some kids? Maybe, so then why not teach kids who are not getting it the one way how to do it the other way? Why impose this upon all children and make it more difficult if not impossible to learn? I do not know the name of the curriculum they are using to teach my son in math, but I do know math used to be his favorite subject and he always excelled in math class, now and since about his second year in middle school he struggles. What is a parent to do? We can’t help them, we can’t understand it, how do we explain it to them? And no he is not a dummy he is in honors science and used to be an honor roll student.

• Scoop Jaxson

Exercise your right to arm yourself with knowledge: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094KY878

• Vandal

• Timothy

Jack’s mistake was that he forgot to also subtract 10, though he already subtracted 300 and 6.

• Raiders99999

The issue with this problem was that the 10’s step was not to scale with the 1’s and the 100’s steps, so he mistook the 10’s step for a 100’s step. This was a badly drawn up problem. I disagree with the Dad’s argument though. There is nothing wrong with understanding where math comes from. Common core just fails to explain it properly.

• Lisa

Common Core is a set of standards. It doesn’t “explain” anything to kids, just sets out the things that kids should know at each stage of their education.

• Anonymous

Common Core does not require specific examples of arithmetic as shown in this article. It only requires that students be taught addition and subtraction. In the case here you have a teacher who, obviously, is not mathematically trained. That teacher is trying to use some “tricks” he may have learned to do mental math.

Don’t blame Common Core, which only states the overall skills the school should ensure be taught. Blame a teacher who cannot do math.

• Lisa

Speaking of making an easy problem more complicated:

“Dear Jack,

You subtracted the one hundreds and the ones, but you forgot to subtract the tens.

xxoo,
Lisa”

That took about five seconds. I question any engineer who would be frustrated by this worksheet.

• Anonymous

Part of the problem is that the kid understood the answer but has ASD and has problems with the writing component. The requirements of the course would be such, however, that to get the mathematics correct, you need writing/communication skills also of at least a certain level. The teachers know the problem but have hands tied. We are talking about 2nd grade. The father in part misunderstood the problem (and couldn’t explain it properly to the student after 2 hours of work) because the scale on the number line is incorrect (eg, the 1 jumps are certainly nowhere near 1/100th the size of the hundred jumps). It seems also that the father wrote a letter to the teacher only. The wife apparently took a picture of the assignment and posted it online.

• Anonymous

This was a place value activity.. You are aware of that fact self righteous parent … aren’t you? An understanding of place value is a very important part of learning math.
I love arm chair experts.

Master Jack,

What you did right: You went backwards 100 notches on your number line three times. This basically subtracted 300. Since your total subtraction needed to be 316, you needed to go backwards by 10 notches just once and then go backwards 6 notches, one notch at a time six times.

What you did wrong: after you managed to go backwards by 300 notches, instead of going backwards only 10 to subtract a total of 310 notches with a remaining 6 notches left to subtract, you went backwards by 20 notches, already putting you at 107, a mere 4 notches away from the correct answer of 111. This was your first mistake. Then you assumed you had 6 more moves to go backwards, and instead of going backwards only by one notch 6 times in a row, you went backwards 10 notches 5 times in a row placing you at the number 57 rather than 111. These were your 2nd and 3rd mistakes.

However, whoever created the problem also made the mistake of leaving out the “ten’s” hump/jump/movement. Or maybe they did it on purpose to see if you could find what was left to subtract. In this problem there is only one “ten’s” move to make. The illustrator gives you the numbers 427,327,227,127, but then skips the “ten’s” jump to 117, and goes straight into the “1’s” jumps, which there are six 1’s jumps to make, to give you the number 121, as 127 – 6 = 121. So this way, which is not practical or reasonable, they would want you to subtract by 100’s first, then subtract by 1’s, then subtract by tens, and thus far they have already/only gone backwards 306 notches. The stupidity in my opinion is that to derive this information you would need to already know basic subtraction rules, as in (how did the illustrator get from 127 to 121?, and what is left to subtract from 427 if 306 has already been subtracted for me?). This has already been explained to you by all these other people, but it’s quite simply faster and easier to just use basic subtraction. Grouping by 100’s or 1’s or 10’s can be a useful tool, but you should probably get a different teacher/math book to explain it.

Hope this helps.
“Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics; I can assure you that mine are still greater.” – Albert Einstein

• Anonymous

The numbers 57, etc, were written by hand by the father and are not part of the original problem (which ends at 121 (rather than 111)). The father explains in a blog that he got confused by the scale and that is why did 20 and 10s rather than look at all of those as 1s (as does the original problem).

• Anonymous

I think you have figured it out. But it is telling that an engineer could get fooled by this. The typical engineer is at about 98%-ile or so of numerical literacy.

• Sabrina G

The point here was not to put it on the internet for other people to try and figure it out and call him stupid afterwards. It is here because there needs to be a rude awakening with this stupid “common core.” Where in life will you be at the cash register pulling out your number line figure out how much you need to pay. Seriously. Even if we can get it, that doesn’t mean these poor kids will understand it OR NEED IT.

• No Disgrace

Used number lines in grade school during early 60’s. Had to explain my work. Dad and son have special need, stated and evident in interview. So what’s the fuss? Student and Dad don’t get it – schedule parent / teacher meeting, develop approach to help son with reasoning and problem solving skills.

• prettyhomedecor

sorry but this dad is just showing his ignorance. Some kids can memorize facts and be fine with that. Others need to see what the operation really means. The use of a number line is one strategy to show that. I hope this electronic engineer doesn”t design anything I buy.

• Anonymous

LOLOL!!! Been there experienced that! My 2nd grader came home with math homework that I could not even figure out what they were saying let alone what they wanted to have completed. In my opinion it was PURE CHILD ABUSE. His teacher told me I was lucky because my son has a logical approach to things and can reason with the state’s logic but that other kids are actually CRYING when they do their math.

• Les Odgers

I understand what they are doing. I may not like it for other than adding and subtracting, but it doe work for + and -, it’s what I do in my head all the time as a pilot, but without all the steps as I can grasp larger numbers that actually go into more than one digit. It’s best for for simple math w/o writing ability nearby. We still need to be teaching Saxon math for more advanced mathematics as this type of math won’t make you decent at Calculus and this type is good only once you’ve mastered the basic math principles for large problems.

• Les Odgers

For me it’s easier to reverse the problem and make it addition, I.e. 316 + what equals 427? I go; 316 + 100 = 416(closest large # under(so I can keep adding) to 427) then figure whats left using 316 + 100=416 + 10 =426 + 1 =427, So u just add the 100+10+1 for 111 and no paper needed and I got into UPT doing this because it’s very fast and simple and works with my brain. I know this isn’t a good way to do critical math for engineering etc., but it works for day to day smaller problems. I’ve become so fast at it I find it hard to explain what I do as it pops intro my head..

• Vivian Nichol

• kimber.45 ACP

Uh oh, the voice of reason is not very popular. As a former school teacher, my opinion is that it is too demanding of parents and students and attempts to raise the bar of education. We should never ever do that, no…

• Anonymous

OK. You can be proud of your complicated basic subtraction problem and we’ll have our differential equations and Laplace transforms in order to solve more interesting problems.

• Anonymous

People, it is easy to attach this to Common Core, especially if you are against it, but this is “new Math” — offering additional ways to look at a problem. That is all. It is apparently endorsed by the Math world, and therefore is included in the Common Core Standards, not invented by them. They still teach the old way, and now there are two ways to look at the problem, for two different types of thinkers. I think it is too complex, but that is my OPINION because of the way I think. I am sure much research is done on the subject. This is not a Common Core argument, it is the same argument our own parents had the last time new thinking processes were introduced. I think it is pretty insecure to say it is about discrediting parents. Or pretty paranoid.

• Julie Cochrane

Mathematicians don’t agree with the way the educational establishment is trying to implement “New Math.” The _teachers_ need to understand a variety of different ways of looking at a problem so they understand when a kid who thinks differently is using an unusual but mathematically valid algorithm.

Math is a little like chess or checkers–you have to play with numbers and what you can do with them a lot until they suddenly “click,” and then math becomes a lot easier. This doesn’t matter when you’re taking inventory of your shop, but does matter later if you’re working at the bleeding edge of higher maths development.

The _teachers_ need to understand a variety of ways to look at a problem so they don’t squash the next budding math genius, who thinks a bit differently from the herd, with, “That’s wrong,” when the kid is using a mathematically valid way to get to the answer.

However, the bonehead brigade really goofed when they decided that _every child_ needed to understand a variety of math strategies. Every child needs to understand that a variety of strategies exist and are valid, but she _doesn’t_ need to be able to _use_ them all. So you demonstrate the number line thing on the whiteboard, but for the huge mass of kids whose minds wrap easiest around the conventional approach, what you expect them to learn and use is the conventional approach. You just don’t mark it wrong when the odd kid has a number line in his scratch area on the test and got the right answer with it.

Kids whose brains are structured to learn different ways will have one of these different approaches “click” for them and form the bridge from which they can go on to understand the rest of the math, where otherwise they wouldn’t “get it” and would just think they were dumb. That doesn’t mean all the kids who were “getting it” the most common way need to change. It was the _teachers_ who needed to change and become more flexible.

But they implemented it all wrong because it’s easier to convince teachers that their whole class full of kids needs to change than it is to convince them that _they_ need to change.

• Julie Cochrane

I think what happened is the teaching establishment noticed that the genius kids had a broad variety of tricks and alternative approaches to math than the one the teacher was teaching (I’m talking about 1950s-style classrooms) and the teacher would get frustrated and mark the problems “wrong” (despite the correct answer) because she didn’t understand how the kid worked it, and the kid would get frustrated and have a bad time all through school because he was smarter than his teachers.

Then they jumped to conclusions. Some “genius” in education got the utopian notion that they could turn all the kiddies into math geniuses if they just got them to use all the different strategies and tricks the genius kids were using.

It doesn’t work that way. The kids weren’t geniuses because they used all kinds of oddball strategies to approach problems and think about the world. They used all kinds of oddball ways of looking at the world because they already were geniuses.

You can’t take a roomful of kids with plumber, accountant, and shopkeepers’ brains and turn them all into budding theoretical physicists, and you shouldn’t try.

Our educational “system” is very resistant to treating each child as an individual human being and firmly insisting that each child work and learn–while using the _means_ of learning that plays to the kid’s own individual strengths.

They always misinterpret it either as slackly failing to hold kids accountable OR regimenting all the kids into goose-stepping to a new tune.

Each child needs to be educated as an individual, held accountable for working hard, being productive, and showing progress, while learning in the ways that best play to that child’s own strengths in _how_ he or she learns.

But it’s not easy, you can’t put it in a can, seal it up, and slap a label on it, and in order to do that we’d have to require high standards of teachers, use people for teaching who could be succeeding at “doing” in other jobs, and pay them what they’d be making in those other jobs. We’d have to absolutely rule out using teaching as a “jobs program” and absolutely rule out under-paying the teachers we did hire.

And we’re not willing to do that. The liberals aren’t willing to hire ONLY very smart, highly-skilled people to teach and fire any who aren’t. The conservatives aren’t willing to PAY those teachers, even in the poor neighborhoods, commensurate with their high intelligence and high skill levels.

• Julie Cochrane

Nutshell:

1) Classroom side: Liberals have a problem holding people accountable to standards. Conservatives have a problem treating people in low-power status positions (poor people, children) as individuals.

2) Hiring, retention, promotion side: Liberals have a problem with hiring only highly smart and highly skilled people and firing the ones we’ve got who aren’t and will never be. Conservatives have a problem with paying for smart teachers for all the teaching positions in even the poor and rural neighborhoods.

Bottom line: This is why we won’t do the obvious thing that all of us know would make “too much sense” to fix our education problem. This is why American education falls behind that of some other nations who have different political divides and different political problems of their own.

• scott

I’m right there with stu! My daughter asked for help with her hw. She’s in 6th grade. I had no idea about the ladder method so I sent a note to the teacher to ask if she could send me something ex planing what they are doing, so I can help her understand. Teach said, I’m not here to teach parents! So why send homework home and expect parents to help when none have a clue about this common crap! I took it upon myself to research on line so I can help her. This is a joke, and they seem to put more importance on the steps needed than the answer it self.

• scott

Btw for those who say it’s to correct mistakes made. Ahh, we could do that with the way we were taught. Now they have more ways to screw up a problem.

• Dukaine

the people who are against common core are the ones with dumb kids that cant do it

• Rebecca Prusak
• CarlT
• Cincolo

There is such a thing called convoluting/overcomplicating. To me that defines common core. I don’t believe the children are capable of fully understanding what some of these processes are, but they are taught to just perform them (no different to me than remembering to carry a “1”). My first response to some of the problems my daughter brings home is, “Why?” “Why waste your time doing these extra 5 steps?” I believe as they get older, if you showed them some of these, they’d have the light bulb go on and say, “Oh!” “That’s what that meant.” I think there are probably some children that understand the lengthy process more than others, and there are those children that understand the simple process better. My daughter is typically taught the more convoluted process first-and she gets very frustrated. I show her my way, and she loves it. However, she has to waste time filling in circles in tables and splitting boxes into fractions first. I don’t know anyone in their right mind that would say the process I attached is easy to understand.

• joetheinformed2

LOL, just because that ONE problem is easy does not mean the entire process is wrong. Try some more difficult subtraction and see which method is easier.

• CharlieSeattle

In the real world: Engineering, Science, Finance etc., etc.

Hand held calculators do NOT support BS Common Core number lines.
Excel spreadsheets do NOT support BS Common Core number lines.
MathCAD equations do NOT support BS Common Core number lines.
2D and 3D CAD software does NOT support BS Common Core number lines.

Any supervisor would fire anyone that wasted time to draw out a number line instead of entering a 5 second calculation on a hand held calculator!