BLOGMay 03, 2017

Did Reagan's Assassination Attempt Thwart an Invasion of Poland and Nuclear War?

Paul Kengor, political science professor and author of the new book A Pope and a President: John Paul II, Ronald Reagan, and the Extraordinary Untold Story of the 20th Century, joined Glenn on radio for a fascinating discussion about the bond between Ronald Reagan and Pope John Paul II. Both men survived assassination attempts in an age when the Soviet Union met its end. Kengor revealed incredible details about the lives of these two great leaders and how divine intervention may have prevented a geopolitical disaster.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: Paul Kengor, professor at Grove City College, author of numerous books. He has a new one out about Ronald Reagan, The Extraordinary Untold Story of the 20th Century. I don't want to tell you the name of the book because it will spoil the surprise. I would have thought that the best friend -- that someone Ronald Reagan would have said was my best friend would be Nancy. That's not what Paul found. Paul, welcome to the program.

PAUL: Hey, Glenn, thanks so much.

GLENN: So how did you find this about Ronald Reagan? Where did you find this? And -- and were you shocked by it? Not shocked, but just shocked that you didn't know it.

PAUL: Yeah, I'd say both, really. And, in fact, Nancy Reagan -- and here's the giveaway, said that John Paul II was her husband's closest friend, which is an amazing thing to say. So you had Ronald Reagan referring to John Paul II as his best friend, and then Nancy said that John Paul II was her husband's closest friend.

GLENN: Isn't that amazing? I've never heard that. Never known that.

PAUL: That's right.

GLENN: That -- in many ways, that completely changes my view in a positive way of Ronald Reagan and who he was. To be John Paul's closest and best friend is remarkable.

PAUL: It is. And I think, look, to be sure, I think there's probably a little bit of a kind of genial overstatement, right? On the part of Reagan in saying that. But the first time that I heard it, it was about ten years ago. And somebody from the Polish Solidarity Movement told me about him and three other members of the Polish Solidarity Movement.

They were visiting with Reagan. This would have been the spring of 1989. And Reagan was no longer president. He was at his Century City office. They were about to hold these historic elections in Poland that would really -- I mean, that's what really took down the Communist bloc, those elections in Poland, even before the Berlin wall fell.

GLENN: Yeah, yeah.

PAUL: And he said, you won't believe this conversation. We're talking to Reagan. The old campaigner who won 49 out of 50 states. And we asked him for some campaign advice. And he looked at us and he said, "Yeah, listen to your conscience because that's where the Holy Spirit speaks to you." What? What was that?

And they gave him a sort of puzzled look. And then he turned, and he gestured to a picture on his office wall of Pope John Paul II. And he said, "He's my best friend." Said, "Yes, you know I'm Protestant. He's obviously Catholic. "But he's my best friend." And when I started asking people about this, including Nancy Reagan, who was great. Every time I had a question for Nancy, I usually sent it by email or phone call, and she would respond to all of these. She was wonderful because she loved John Paul II herself.

She said that John Paul II was her favorite leader among everybody that Ronnie met with. And I think, Glenn, what they both mean by that is it's not like the two were calling each other up and talking about the ball game or going fishing.

GLENN: Sure. Sure.

PAUL: Or -- but I think what Reagan meant was, in terms of this kind of historical and spiritual -- he and John Paul II both thought this way, this historical, spiritual struggle to take down and defeat this evil empire, atheistic Soviet communism, Reagan felt that there was no better friend or no closer friend that he had in that endeavor than Pope John Paul II.

GLENN: We're talking to Dr. Paul Kengor. A professor and a great author. Written several books. One of them is -- that he did with Mercury, Inc. The Communist, which was about Barack Obama's mentor, Frank Marshall Davis. Great researcher on history. His new book is A Pope and A President: John Paul II, Ronald Reagan, and The Extraordinary Untold Story of the 20th Century.

Paul, they had this -- they had this connection of not only bringing things down. But I think they also had -- and you talk about it in the book -- this connection because they both felt that they were men of destiny, and they both had an assassination attempt against them. And they both survived, which I think hardened that man of destiny, we're on God's side kind of feeling.

PAUL: Yeah, that's exactly right. People forget this now. Everybody remembers that they were both shot. But, I mean, they were shot only six weeks apart.

GLENN: I did not remember that.

PAUL: It was March 30th, 1981, that Reagan was shot by John Hinckley. And then John Paul II was shot on May 13th, 1981. And immediately after Reagan was shot, the pope sent his prayers to Reagan, you know, wishing him well for a speedy recovery. And then Reagan, right after John Paul II was shot, immediately tried to call the Vatican. He called Cardinal Cook, Cardinal Krol in New York and Philadelphia. Sent a letter off to the pope saying that he was horrified by this, telling him that he was praying for him. Had a personal letter delivered to him by Congressman Peter Rodino, a Democrat from New Jersey. Had it taken all the way to Rome. And, I mean, they -- they already had wanted to meet with each other, Glenn, at least since early 1981 when Reagan was president.

And actually for Reagan, he wanted to meet with John Paul II from the moment that he saw footage of the pope going to his homeland in June 1979. Reagan said we got to get elected, and we got to reach out to him and the Vatican and make him an ally. So now with the two of them being shot -- and people didn't know this then either. They both very nearly bled to death.

GLENN: Right.

PAUL: They should have died. The pope needed 6 pints transfused of blood. Reagan needed eight. They both should have bled to death on their respective ways to the hospital. And then when they finally got together for the first time at the Vatican in June 19832, they met for about an hour alone, and they confided to one another their mutual beliefs that they believed that God had spared their lives for a special purpose, to take down atheistic Soviet communism.

STU: Hmm. Talking to Paul Kengor. Paul, this is I think new. I've never heard this before. Reagan being shot may have prevented the Soviet Union from invading Poland. Is that true?

PAUL: Right. It's incredible. It's an incredible story. It was told to me by someone who was at the Berlin station at the time in the late '70s and early 1980s. And I first heard this about five years ago. And I was blown away by the -- by the possibility. I spent a summer at the Reagan Library, looking into this. And it pretty much checks out. And, I mean, look, here's what we know: Between about November 1980 and the time that the Soviets declared -- helped declare martial law in Poland. This would have been December 1981.

Everybody was on pins and needles that the Soviet Union was going to invade Poland. I mean, we thought it was possible. We were hoping it wouldn't happen. Thought it was possible.

I was told by my source that -- he said, "You have no idea how close this was." He was -- he was decrypting information from the Soviets, throughout March 1989. And he said that he had information that they were literally ready to march into Poland on March 30th, 1981. On that exact -- that exact date March 30th, 1981. And you say, well, why is that so profound? Because of course Reagan was shot on March 30th, 1981.

And he -- he claims that because Reagan was shot and the US military went on full nuclear alert, highest level of DEFCON --

GLENN: Wow.

PAUL: Al Hague, you know, stomped into the White House. Said, "I'm in charge here." It's funny because everybody made fun of Hague for that. But the Soviets saw that, and they said, Al Hague, you know, former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO. He's no one to mess around with.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: Wow.

PAUL: And they sent a DEFCON alert. And my source told me they were ready to go. And then when Reagan was shot, that's what called off the whole thing.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: So --

PAUL: And I think --

GLENN: Go ahead.

PAUL: I think it's accurate.

GLENN: Let me go back to the assassination on the pope.

You have in your book, New Details, that the KGB was involved in the pope's assassination.

PAUL: That's right. And we've long suspected that the Soviets were involved. John Paul II, Glenn, fought it as early as July 1981. In fact, when he got to the hospital, before he passed out, he said to the nurse, "How could they do it? How could they do it?" They meaning who? The one guy that lifted his gun? Mehmet Agca. And shot him.

I mean, he suspected right away that something was going on. He was telling people by late '81 -- his aides and confidants -- that he thought Moscow ordered it.

Reagan, Bill Casey at the CIA -- Casey called a very tight meeting of the National Foreign Intelligence Board on F Street in Washington, the very next morning, May 14. Wanted to know what Moscow was up to.

Bill Clark, the National Security Council. So they all suspected Moscow. Then when the word got out that the Bulgarians were involved. And you and Pat and Stu knowing your Cold War history, I mean, you know what the Bulgarians were like. They were stooges of the Soviet Union. Some people called Bulgaria the 16th Soviet Republic.

So when they heard that Bulgaria was involved and was behind Mehmet Agca, that immediately raised red flags, pun intended.

And, you know, they -- when they heard Bulgaria, they thought, "Okay. Moscow had to have been involved." But they kept all of this quiet until Casey ordered a truly super secret investigation at the CIA. And this is really kind of the blockbuster thing that I broke in this book.

And Casey -- this was a very tight investigation. I was told it was spearheaded by two young women, one of them in her late 20s, early 30s. Another in her early 40s. And they came to the conclusion that Moscow did, in fact, order the hit on the pope. And, specifically, it was through the Soviet GRU -- military intelligence -- they're the ones that organized it. But they did it with the go ahead and the approval of Yuri Andropov at the KGB.

GLENN: How much -- and I'm trying to keep of the timing here. I think it was after the assassination. How much did this play a role in Ronald Reagan having zero doubt or fear of labeling the Soviet Union an evil empire?

PAUL: Well, that's a good question. Reagan said that in March of '83.

GLENN: Right.

PAUL: And I think for Reagan, I mean, he had always known they were evil.

GLENN: But, I mean, if you knew they were evil -- but even the pope said, "How could they do this?"

PAUL: Right.

GLENN: To go and try to assassinate the pope. And a guy who sees a black and white world already, that just pushes you into a whole new level of evil.

PAUL: That's right. It really does. And, I mean, it doesn't surprise me. Knowing the way that -- the Soviet Union, they had been killing priests and bishops, Russian Orthodox Church rabbis, Roman Catholic priests, Protestant priests. They had been doing this since 1917. I mean, they killed hundreds, if not thousands. They were blowing up churches. Reagan knew that history. John Paul II knew that from being in Poland, where they harassed him since the 1950s. So really I think the answer to your question, Glenn, whereas a lot of the establishmentarians in the State Department and the CIA couldn't imagine that the Soviets would descend to that level, Reagan and Bill Casey and John Paul II and guys like Bill Clark, they had no problem at all imagining that the Soviets --

GLENN: So I want to go -- I have to take a break. But I want to come back and talk to you -- we're talking to Paul Kengor. His new book is called A Pope and A President. You get into something that I wasn't aware of, and maybe others are, that the pope was a big scholar or big fan -- I don't know how you would describe it -- of the secrets of Fatima, which I would like you to describe what those secrets of Fatima are. How the Vatican has the last parts of the secrets of Fatima. Did Reagan know any of that? And the role that those secrets played with Russia. Something that nobody would have wanted to know about the president at the time. The press would have had a field day with that.

But I'd like to hear about his connections with the secrets of Fatima and the pope coming up in just a second.

PAUL: Sure.

GLENN: The name of the book again is A Pope and A President. Fascinating and new material on Ronald Reagan and the pope. Sponsor this half-hour is My Patriot Supply. Yesterday, two US B-1 bombers departed Anderson Air Force Base in Guam. And they conducted a joint drill with South Korea and Japan. They flew over the North Korean peninsula. And they flew close to the 39th parallel. Why? The reason why is they are showing -- they showed off our stealth and our -- our B-1 bombers, saying to North Korea -- they flew close enough to the zone for them to know what they were, to say, "We can knock out all of your infrastructure."

PAT: Does the 39th parallel scare them as much as the 38th does?

GLENN: I'm sorry. The 38th parallel. Thank you. No, it doesn't. It doesn't.

PAT: Okay.

[break]

GLENN: We're talking to Dr. Paul Kengor. Great friend of the show and a great brilliant historian and writer. A Pope and A President is his new book. And before we move into the secrets of Fatima, Paul, I want to go back to what you said about the Soviets planning on invading Poland the day of Ronald Reagan's shooting. And if it wasn't that Ronald Reagan was shot that day, they were going to invade.

A couple of things on that: If they would have invaded, even without Al Hague, America would have immediately assumed it was the Soviet Union that was behind this assassination attempt, which would have been false. But we would have immediately assumed that that was not a coincidence.

PAUL: That's right.

GLENN: And even if it wasn't for the shooting, if they would have invaded, we may have gone to nuclear war over that.

PAUL: That's right. You know, that would have been absolutely and ultra devastating. And I think one of the reasons why they pulled back, Glenn, is because people might have linked it to the shooting.

GLENN: Sure.

PAUL: The shooting of Reagan. It turns out, of course, it was John Hinckley and he was trying to get the attention of Jodi Foster. He wasn't involved in any kind of international conspiracy whatsoever, but people would have definitely thought of that.

RADIO

Will Iran’s Attack on Israel Lead to NUCLEAR WAR?

Over the weekend, Iran launched over 300 missiles and drones at Israel. But in a response that could only be seen as “miraculous,” Israel’s defense systems neutralized 99% of the attack. However, the world might have been a very different place if even a third of those missiles had hit their targets. Former Department of Defense intelligence analyst Jason Buttrill joins Glenn to lay out just how close we were to global nuclear war. So, is there still a chance that this will lead to World War III? Will Israel retaliate? And can Iran even respond a second time? The guys break it all down.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So yesterday, Israel, Iran attacked over the weekend, and it was a significant attack.

JASON: Yeah. You know that scene in war games, where it shows all these missiles. That's what it looked like. It was insane. 350 missiles. Missiles drones. All that. It was --

GLENN: So significant attack. They are launching the missiles, some of them into space. Did we get the video in yet?

JASON: Should.

GLENN: Of the -- what do they call this? The C Dome? I think.

They have the Iron Dome.

JASON: Oh, it's it is Arrow System.

GLENN: Watch this. Watch this. If you're watching TheBlaze. There.

STU: Fireworks.

GLENN: That is -- I feel like a million voices were all screaming and then suddenly silenced. That is a hit in space.

JASON: Exoatmospheric.

GLENN: So that's the Arrow system, going up out of the atmosphere into space, and hitting a missile as it's starting to come back in.

I mean, it's one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. And I think this is the first time it was ever captured on film, right?

JASON: This was the third interception in space. The others were last year, when the Houthis launched Iranian missiles against Israel. So just the weapon technology involved this weekend is nuts.

GLENN: So 99 percent, 99 percent of these missiles will tell you what was going on, but the biggest thing you need to know is, we could have very easily been in World War III today.

I think because of the Arrow missile system, which is a joint project between us and Israel, that really, truly saved the day. If these 300 missiles would have struck the ground, it would have been world war.

Absolutely world war.

JASON: Oh, if a quarter of these missiles actually got through. We're having a completely different conversation right now.

GLENN: Please tell us we have the Arrow system here.

JASON: I don't think we do. It was the second half of the development for that. So it's also an American.

We have dibs on it. We have our own system that is kind of pre-deployed on naval ships all around the world, so we do have the same capability.

GLENN: That's the Aegis System, right? That's not shooting things from in space.

JASON: It is. I don't remember. There's two parts of it. I don't remember the second part of it.

GLENN: The Aegis System on ships, is just a buttload of bullets, coming out.

I mean, it's just -- it's just round after round. Big butt of bullets.

JASON: Yeah. It's called a BLB. Buttload of bullets. Military technology.

GLENN: Yeah.

JASON: It was more than just the Arrow system. To try to get the scope of this. You have to look at the graphic of this. Submitted. Of where all this ordinance was coming from.

Yemen. Iraq. Iran. Lebanon. All converging on multiple different fronts. All down on Israel.

They have a three-pronged system. The further one out, is the arrow two and three system.

GLENN: That's the one shooting in space.

JASON: That's the one that can reach up and touch you in space. The second one is David's Sling. That shoots lower -- yeah, I know. They have such cooler names than ours does. That shoots like cruise missiles or like missiles that are flying low to the ground. And then you have the Iron Dome, which everyone is talking about.

All of those things were firing all at once, going on over the weekend. But you also had Israeli planes, going up and firing on cruise missiles, way the heck out there. Then you had US planes, and planes from the UK.

All of this converging in the skies, over the weekend.

GLENN: So is it that Iran's missiles suck so much?

Or is this as amazing as it sounds?

JASON: It's as amazing as it sounds.

So these are current generation weaponry that we're talking about. Iran is exporting some of this weaponry, giving it to Russia, to Russia can attack Ukraine. This is amazing.

99 percent success rate, does not happen. It doesn't. So, I mean, granted there was great technology here.

But I think there's some God work going on as well.

GLENN: I was going to say, isn't there Scriptures, when the whole world goes to attack.

That God just protects. It's like a dome over Israel.

JASON: Yeah. Yeah. It was so effective, that I think that Iran probably is rethinking some of their first strike strategy against Israel.

Now, you know they've all gamed this out.

And I'm sure, part of this attack, that goes into their plans. Like, they know that they want to take out Israel. If they had to, what do they need?

Well, they threw everything, but the ayatollah's kitchen sink at Israel oar the weekend.

GLENN: I think I was flying. I think I saw does that hit the ground.

JASON: They probably used that too.

GLENN: With the disposal, which is weird.

So if you would have had one of these nuclear-tipped. It -- I mean, so you -- so all of that work for a nuclear weapon. You ain't going to deposit it through a missile. Right?

Wouldn't that be the message that Iran would get?

JASON: You're not now.

Yeah. I don't. This sent Iraq back, I'm sure. Probably several years, as far as whatever their eventually goal is.

And that right there, is the problem. Because we know, they won't stop. So when you're saying, you know, when everyone is like pleading with her.

When Biden was pleading with Bibi over the weekend, to don't retaliate. On the one hand, I'm like, yeah.

Because I don't want to see the Middle East completely change overnight.

GLENN: It's not just that.

If they retaliate, Iran has the ability to set Europe and America on fire in the streets. And that's only a matter of time, before it happens. But I don't know.

I would like to delay it as long as possible.

JASON: But if you're Israel. Look at the overall picture here.

They're surrounding them. Look at the graphic of where all the missiles are coming from.

Israel is surrounded.

The strategy now. International community. Israel just keep your walls.

Just keep your walls up, and you will be safe. When has that ever worked, in military history?

Never. Constantinople. Greece. Troy. Pick your time. Your walls are an illusion. They will keep you safe, for a limited amount of time. But the eventual goal of an invading army is to topple those walls. That's Iran's plan.

So how long do you delay? And if they decide -- and Iran says, they're not delaying anymore. That is when the entire region changes forever.

They've been playing this little proxy war for 40 years.

GLENN: This is the first time, that they have, not used a proxy. Right? No proxy, it was Iran.

And so I saw -- and honestly, I thank God, that we are pausing at least. You know what I mean?

Because this will escalate into a world war that fast.

Just, everything in me says, once the Middle East is set on fire, Russia and Ukraine, and everything else, it's just going to be you. Just dominoes.

Because if the Middle East is on fire, and Iran is losing, which they would.

They're just setting all of our countries on fire, you know, internally.

So I was glad to see the pause. However, I was a little disturbed, that the news came out from the White House. Because that should have come out from the Prime Minister's office in Israel. But instead, Joe Biden calls Bibi Netanyahu. Who apparently, the war ministry, all voted to retaliate. And then Joe Biden called and said, hey. We won't support you.

Tonight -- don't do it. Don't retaliate. That's what the White House is saying, and so Bibi changed his mind. Well, gee. Thanks for backing me into a corner. I mean, it might be a corner I like to be in. But that's not the way you deal with an ally, is it?

JASON: No. How they're dealing with this all across-the-board, is what you're not supposed to do. This attack happened because of the Biden administration's overall foreign policy in the Middle East.

GLENN: You think?

JASON: When you refuse to stand up to their proxy, Hamas. When you coddle them as they have, things like this happen. When you give billions of dollars back to Iran. When you try to go back into the JCPO, nuclear agreement with them. When you're doing everything possible, to say, let's play nice. Let's play nice. When you have refused to stand up to a bully, this is the type of crap that happens. And I'm not saying that we go off and militarily attack them. There is a formula for dealing with this.

It was actually working. The Abraham Accords are happening. When you abandon them. This is the kind of crap that happens.

GLENN: But when you're having the possibility of Trump getting back in, and quelling all of this. I just want to make it to, you know, January, in case he wins. If he doesn't win, I mean, we're just going to keep seeing more and more of this.

You're right. It is our policies. We are weak. We don't command any respect. And honestly, we're on the other side.

We're giving money to Iran. So our tax dollars went to Iran. And to Israel.

So you could feel good on April 15th today. You paid for both sides of this.

STU: What do you guys make of the really strange way this all unfolded.

It was like, hey! Drones are going to be there in a few hours. They're all coming.

GLENN: I think that is. That is -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Jason.

You would know more than I would.

I think that was the signal from Iran.

Hey. We're going to do this.

STU: Right.

GLENN: We're going to -- because otherwise, you surprise.

Hey, surprise!

But they let Israel.

STU: Israel did.

GLENN: Yeah. They telegraphed it. Let Israel know.

Prepare your people for this. And then we will stop.

And that gives -- that gives the Israelis an opportunity to say, okay.

Well, we stopped you. Don't do it again.

STU: Because their statement right after. Hey. By the way, that's the end of this.

Wait until you know. That's what we're doing.

The matter is settled.

JASON: Concluded.

STU: Yeah. They're trying to say to our people. Hey. We did something.

To Israel, hey, we told you it was coming. You blocked it all.

Let's just call it a draw. Now, Israel, of course, gets the win here. They wiped out important military officials, and people they really wanted to target in Syria.

And they stopped the entire attack from Iran.

I mean, it's a massive escalation. No way of denying that. Maybe there's a chance for us to avoid a real inflammation of our entire region.

GLENN: I think we did. I think we did.

STU: You think it's over? Netanyahu said, it's going back for years.

GLENN: It's going to go back to terror now. The missiles are over.

STU: I mean, Netanyahu said, he wants to basically go after Iran directly.

He believes they're doing all this --

GLENN: Wow, they are the head of the state. They are the problem.

STU: It's true.

JASON: It's all up to Israel's response now.

GLENN: So you don't believe. So you don't believe, they are finished. Because -- according to the White House. They're done.

JASON: I think that's what Israel is juggling right now. Because it was heavily telegraphed. Iran told Turkey they were going to do this attack. And Turkey transmitted it to us.

GLENN: Let me take a quick break. And then I want to come back. Because I want to lack at this from the Israeli point of view.

I'm in addition they're stopped.

But if I'm an Israeli, I'm like, go get them now.

They've just blown everything that they have most likely. Let's go get them, while they're weak. We can overthrow them.

RADIO

Why Megyn Kelly is “DISGUSTED” by New York’s Criminal Trump Trial

The hush money trial of Donald Trump has begun — the first criminal trial ever against a former president — and Megyn Kelly is “disgusted” by it. “The United States of America DOESN’T do this,” she tells Glenn. But will Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg actually throw Trump in jail? Megyn explains why she doesn’t believe so, but she also debates whether a criminal conviction will help or hurt Trump in the November election.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Megyn Kelly, welcome to the program.

How are you, Megyn?

MEGYN: Hi, Glenn. Good to see you. How are you doing?

GLENN: What's going to happen this time? Are they going to get him this time?

MEGYN: They're going to get him. And I don't know about you. You can kind of laugh at it. And kind of absurd. But now that it's -- I mean, the first criminal trial of Donald Trump has just begun. They're in the courtroom.

The witnesses will be called eventually, after they pick the jury.

And they're going to try to put this guy behind bars, potentially.

They're 100 percent taking their best shot at stopping him from winning this race. And it really, for me as a lawyer, it's been very sobering morning.

I'm just disgusted.

I cannot believe we're doing this.

I -- it's like -- it's like Princess Diana behaving like a straight whore. That's what we're doing. The United States doesn't do this. And because we're in the hands of this scummy prosecutor. Multiple. It's not just Alvin Bragg, but he's the lead on this.

We've gone down this road, pretending a payment to a porn star, who is threatening to expose an affair, is a crime that warrants 34 counts. And they're going to make it as sleazy as humanly possible.

We're going to hear about David Pecker, who ran the national inquirer, owned AMI Media, and to bury negative stories on Trump and to inflate stories on Hillary.

Great. I can't wait to hear about Fusion GPS. Was Trump the only one trying to get dirt printed on his opponent.

That's what this jury will be left with. He worked with dirty magazines to get Hillary painted as fact. And unwell.

And without talking about how his campaign was spied on. She's been trying to get him impeached or thrown in jail, along with President Obama, for years.

Politics is disgusting and dirty and underhanded. And we wish it weren't so.

But guess what, it's so. Welcome to America.

And never before, have we put somebody on trial. Antics around it. Or a man on trial, for not screaming from the rooftops, I paid off a porn star, so she didn't humiliate me with my wife.

We're embarrassing ourselves with this trial. I feel appropriately disgusted.

GLENN: What is the difference between this trial, and the trial that didn't happen, because I only lied about sex? You know, to save my marriage, to make sure I didn't humiliate my wife. That's basically why Donald Trump perjured himself. Or not Donald Trump. Bill Clinton perjured himself, and nothing happened there. Everybody just walked away. What's the difference between these two?

MEGYN: One is a Democrat. One is a Republican.

GLENN: That's what I thought. That's what I thought.

MEGYN: Yeah, if you're a Democrat, you can lie. Ask Fani Wilis, ask Nathan Wade. Fine. You can lie on the stand, under oath. Like Bill Clinton did.

It's okay. It's just -- oh, wait. That's what Trump was doing too, allegedly.

That's -- wait. He was lying to cover up an affair. In only one lane does it become a felony.
And just not to get too deep in the weeds, Glenn, but let's not forget what really is happening here is a misdemeanor bookkeeping snafu or error or just statement, that the statute of limitations has run on. They reinvigorated a dead claim, by saying, well, it was made to cover up an underlying felony, which was a campaign finance violation.

You made $130,000 donation, quote, unquote, to your own campaign by paying off Stormy Daniels to win an election.

Well, guess what, that's not a campaign finance violation. The only way you get the kind of campaign finance violation, is get the payment, who could only have been made for one purpose, and that is to help your campaign.

Well, guess what, again, hush payments have been made by men to shut women up since the dawn of time. It doesn't have to be to save one's campaign. And that is the relative legal test expect Alvin brag should know. It's the reason the feds were not interested in pursuing this claim against Donald Trump.

GLENN: Correct. So is it just a corrupt judge that is making all the -- because the judge should look at that and said, no. You can't do this?

MEGYN: Yeah. Yes. I mean, it's not just. Because we have Mr. Bragg. But, yeah. The judge say serious problem.

A nonpartisan judge would you have thrown this out in the papers. Pretty easily.

And I do believe there's a very good chance, this will ultimately, no matter what happens with the area. Get thrown out on appeal.

Like most of the prosecutions against Trump. Not the obstruction case. But the J6 case could get thrown out soon, actually. The Supreme Court throws out the obstruction charges. Other cases involve J6 defendants not Trump.

If the Supreme Court does anything on presidential immunity. And then if he loses that J6 case. If there's a trial. I think it can get thrown out on appeal.

But he has to go through the humiliation.

We -- we -- America have to go through the humiliation of this criminal trial first.

We just saw our former president dragged into a criminal courtroom today.

And in typical Trumpian fashion, he said, I'm proud to be here. I'm very proud to be here.

That's smart. Trump is smart. He always does it. Positive spin for anything that happens to him. Let's be honest. This is not a proud moment.

Not for him. Not for us.

GLENN: Not for his family.

MEGYN: I'm ashamed of us for doing this.

GLENN: So what do you say about Donald Trump, this is, you know, something that, you know, we would be disgusted by, if it was something that was happening on the other side? Bill Clinton comes to mind. That we as conservatives, would say, this guy, he shouldn't be doing this as president. But in the Clinton case, it was illegal. He perjured himself. But there -- there really isn't anything illegal here. And if it was, it's past the statute of limitations.

MEGYN: There's a difference between those two cases. Let me tell you, Glenn. No one is allowed to lie under oath. It's a felony. It's a felony. It's perjury.

GLENN: Correct.

MEGYN: And a lawyer really isn't allowed to lie under oath. You have additional duties of candor to a court, before they admit you into the bar. You swear not to do things like that. So there are additional obligations on a lawyer, which Clinton was.

And on top of that, there are additional obligations as president. He violated them all. He committed a felony. Donald Trump made a bookkeeping misstatement. That's what he did. And for that, he's being hauled into court.

There's just no comparison between the legal scent -- and, look, I don't have any doubt, Trump will be convicted.

And to be honest, I don't have any doubt that Trump did this. I'm not -- I don't really doubt, that Trump didn't write down the hush money, to Stormy Daniels. Porn star. Who is threatening to go to my wife and the media about an affair, I may have had. He probably did do that.

GLENN: Right. Well, there was another one he paid off, that it wasn't true.

So I mean we don't know. Right?

MEGYN: The doorman? Yeah. Well, that's another piece of the AMI media piece of this case, which hasn't gotten much attention. But it's going to, when I think you hear, David Pecker will take the stand. The guy who ran, and I owned it. He will take a stand. And say, yeah. We caught and killed stories, including from this Karen McDougal who was the 1998 playmate of the year, who allegedly had an affair with Trump.

And also took a payout from AMI, to write health columns, instead of take the story to a publication that would run with it. This is what the allegation is, that if you're a friend with Pecker, like Trump was, you could get this kind of thing done for you.

And that's what he was doing for Trump. And we will have with this testimony, to that effect. And that's -- okay.

Is anyone shocked, that Trump didn't want all his affairs come out? I don't care. I'm sure he has had affairs. I'm sure, you know what, I'm sure Obama did too. The sainted Obama. And I'm sure Bill Clinton did. And the only reason the Clinton thing became a story is because Linda Tripp cited it -- and go public with the story. Neither pair of the lovers wanted that public.

Linda Tripp brought it public, and then Bill Clinton, rather than being a man and owning up to it, lied under oath. We're back to that problem.

But this is just -- we shouldn't be knowing about any of this. We shouldn't be humiliating ourselves, and getting neck deep into the gory details of it. But the Democrats are going to be awash in -- in seedy Trump affair details, for the next six weeks.

And it's anything, but accidental.

GLENN: How do you think this plays with the American people?

MEGYN: I think they will be disgusted like him.

But unfortunately, I think the very group Trump is struggling with, women, former Republicans, in the suburbs, like where I live. They're not going to like this. You know, because most of our husbands don't cheat on us with porn stars and playmates of the years. And --

GLENN: Well, I would hope -- I would hope that it doesn't just -- we don't. Yeah. We're all cheating. But not necessarily with porn stars. And play boys.

STU: There's also so many playmates of the year. They would be way too busy if everybody were cheating.

GLENN: Yeah. Way too busy. I don't think most husbands cheat on their wives.

MEGYN: I don't think they do. So they're not going to like this. You can't forget MAGA. Those guys who are out in front of the White House now, amazing.

The pro-Trump guys with all their pro-Trump gear. And they're like the anti-Trump guys. Did you see the guy with the flute?

He hates Trump! Like liar. Narcissist. Felon. And then he's playing the lovely flute. Saying God bless America.

Anyway, the hard-core MAGA, they're not going to care. We all know. Nothing is going to change their mind. And most Republicans are on Team Trump, and realize it's a political persecution.

But there is a group of independents now, center right independents. Who used to be Republicans. Who don't like Trump. And it would be helpful to the Republican Party and to Trump. If those people could be more disgusted with Biden than with Trump.

GLENN: Right.

MEGYN: And they might yet be. And I don't mean the conviction. The conviction won't help either.

Six weeks of Trump is a shitty husband. That won't help.

GLENN: Remember.

STU: Broadcast.

GLENN: Broadcast. That's all right. That's all right.

So, Megyn, does he go to jail? You said he will be convicted. Does he go to jail? And what would that mean? How much time would he be facing on this?

MEGYN: He's not going to jail on this case. He's not.

But you have lunatics like Andrew Weissmann, who honestly, he's not a -- like, this guy has done a very legitimate legal resume. I realize he left the FBI and all that.

But he was general council of the FBI, was a US attorney, and he's out there saying nonsense like, well, Trump is a recidivist. A recidivist is someone who continues to commit crime after he's served time or been convicted. You know, like you can't stop yourself from selling the heroin.

That's not Trump! So it is true, that there's some potential for jail time, if this judge somehow turns him into a repeat offender because he is facing three other criminal trials.

That's not happening. So I don't think he will go to jail for this one. I think it will be a matter of fines. But if -- that doesn't change much. I mean, jail time would be far, far worse.

But they still have their conviction.

And the thing is, guys, half of independents and still one-third of the Republicans, are saying they like Trump. But they can't vote for a convicted felon.

And I had this conviction -- I think it was with you guys, Stu. You and Dave Marcus were on my show this week. What if they mean it.

I know we don't think they mean it. What if they do mean it.

I look at this. Huh. What if we're wrong?

What if we're downplaying this, like, everyone knows this is BS, but we're wrong? When we misread the polls. And we do often. Because who the heck knows what to believe on polls anymore.

GLENN: Yep.

MEGYN: We get burned.

And so today really could be day one, in Trump losing this election. It could be.

GLENN: My gosh.

MEGYN: I don't think it will be.

But I recognize the danger of what they're doing here. And, of course, we all know, that's why they're doing it.

GLENN: I was hoping that it would backfire on them. I think it has to some degree.

I don't know when you add the actual felony. You know, to this.

MEGYN: That's the thing. That's the question.

Is the backfire bounce, already baked in.

GLENN: Hmm.

MEGYN: Right?

Have they already gotten all the bounce there is to get, from the outrage, over resetting norms that have been in place for almost 250 years.

And that, of course, would be the Democrat's plan, to boost him in the primaries.

He'll get whatever bounce he gets in the backlash.

And then it waned over the course of what they hoped would be four criminal trials. Now it looks like just this one.

But this is their best shot. Six weeks. Disgusting man. Horrid husband. And now convicted felony.

They don't need to hurt him much. You know, Joe Biden only one by 45,000 votes. They don't need to hurt him much.

GLENN: I know.

Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly Show. Follows this program on SiriusXM. As always, Megyn, good to talk to you. Thank you.

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WWII Pilot: What Hollywood Left Out from ‘Masters of the Air’ TV Series | Glenn TV | Ep 346