RADIOMarch 19, 2018

‘Passion of the Christ’ actor Jim Caviezel shares why God works through his films

For someone who played the lead in the greatest story of all time, Jim Caviezel seems like a pretty humble guy.

The Catholic actor, who is slated to play Jesus again in a sequel to Mel Gibson’s “The Passion of the Christ,” joined Glenn in the studio today to talk about what it’s like to be a believer in Hollywood and how he wants to continue to give his career over to God.

Author reveals the one alarming stat that shows US Christians are in trouble

“It was always God through me that would make these films great,” Caviezel said. He added that his goal was always that “I don’t want them to see me; I want them only to see You [God].”

Caviezel is making headlines with another biblical role; he portrays the disciple Luke in his latest film, “Paul, Apostle of Christ,” which is coming to theaters this weekend.

On today’s show, he talked about the contrast between the value his faith gives to his life and the emptiness of Hollywood celebrity on its own.

“People will give up everything for a red carpet,” he said.

This article provided courtesy of TheBlaze.

GLENN: Jim Caviezel is in studio with us. A good man and a friend. We grew up, kind of together. I mean, we went to the same elementary school. And you were, what? Two years behind me, Jim?

JIM: I was -- I was in third grade when you were in eighth grade. But I saw you for a second in third grade.

GLENN: And you remember it.

JIM: I remembered you in the wide-legged corduroy pants.

GLENN: Yep. That was me.

JIM: Was it Robert Conine? Rose Krantz. Peter Janakey.

GLENN: Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

JIM: And we rode the bus -- the school bus together. I remember you -- I remember you jumping up and down, up on Peter Janakey's shoulders. I remember Sister Agnes Joseph coming to our class and said she just saw you debate the entire class. Michael Rosencrantz told me that that boy is a genius. And she was saying -- and Janakey was pretty genius too.

GLENN: Yeah, well, none of those stories were true. Yeah, none of those stories were true.

So how are you?

JIM: I'm good.

GLENN: Yeah. Now, you're in a new film called Paul: Apostle of Christ. I haven't seen it yet. When does it come out?

JIM: March 23rd.

GLENN: Last time I saw you, you had -- you were still reeling from, you know, the -- not temptation of Christ. But the --

JIM: Passion of Christ.

GLENN: Passion of Christ. And you were still reeling from that. And I think you are one of the bravest men I think I've ever met. One of the most loyal men to God that I've ever met.

And I think -- wrongfully persecuted for what you've -- what you've done. The standards that you've taken. You've been very careful and very true.

When you were in school, when we were there together, you made a promise to God. Can you talk about that?

JIM: I was given a gift. And I -- I think it's very difficult for God to give certain people gifts. Because once they get the opportunity, it starts out being, here, God, I'll give you all that. And it becomes, you know, nine for you, one for me, and then it eventually becomes nine for me, one for you.

So I just said that I would make the kind of films that would, you know, affect people's lives. Like, you know, It's a Wonderful Life. When I met Jimmy Stewart, I was a waiter for him. And I went and got him a drink. And I was working at a party. And they told me that I couldn't speak to any of the celebrities. And I saw that guy and I said, well, I could get fired for talking to him. So at the time, I had applied to the US Naval Academy. I applied three different times and didn't get in. And I had a shot at West Point. And I told him, you know, I know that you flew the liberators over Germany. And he was just shocked that I knew. Here I am 19 years old, 20 years old, and I knew so much about him.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

JIM: And I think that -- Clooney told me one time, George said that when they were at -- he was with Rosemary, his aunt, and they were at Stewart's house. And on the TV was his academy award, and Stewart said, you know, I wish I had done more.

And here's a guy that made arguably one of the greatest films ever made. I watch it every year. It's a Wonderful Life. I want to have that kind of affect on people. But it was always God through me that would make these films great.

GLENN: Is it true that you said, I want to play you?

JIM: No, I said, I don't want them to see me. I want them to only see you. And that became the difference. And to do that was on the cross, I felt the love that he had for me. But when I asked him to come closer than that, he said, you may not like what you're going to get. And I said, as long as they see you, that's all that matters. And what I felt was a broken heart because our Lord is not loved by most of our children. And, you know, I tell people, I know God loves you. And if you don't know that, then, you know, kind of live the life that makes people feel that. But those that say that -- that have accepted that, you know, just get up in the morning and tell Jesus that you love him. He needs to hear that too.

GLENN: You are -- you would have gotten along with Hollywood a long time ago. With the Jimmy Stewarts of the world. I think they were more like you.

JIM: Right.

GLENN: Now not so much. Now not so much. And yet you are consistently amazing in every role I have ever seen you in. You are just tremendous.

JIM: Glenn, I've this said before. Hollywood, at best -- you know, if that really is the world, at best, it can only like you. Because the love -- it does not come from man. It comes from God. So at best, Hollywood can like you. And I can prove it to you, when you go to the Academy Awards. Former winners are on the sideline. It's over the current winner. And you look at some of the films. And the substance that's coming out. And they're making all over that. People will give up everything for a red carpet. But the question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to be liked by many or loved by one?

GLENN: I have a friend, John Irwin, from the Irwin Brothers. And they just made a film. What was the name of it? Yeah. I Can Only Imagine.

It came out this weekend. It's supposed to make $2 million. It's a faith film. It's really good. It has Dennis Quaid in it. Supposed to make $2 million. It made $17 million. It's only in 1600 theaters. It's number three this weekend.

JIM: Yeah, that means the per screen average was more than the two films prior -- that are ahead of them. That's over $10,000 a screen.

GLENN: Yeah.

JIM: That's extraordinary.

GLENN: Yeah. And you're not reading about it anywhere.

JIM: No, you won't.

GLENN: Yeah, but since you were in Passion, things have changed. You don't need Hollywood as much as you did.

JIM: The system -- you know, the -- the truth is out there. And it's not going to go away. And, you know, the -- the --

GLENN: The Irwin brothers?

JIM: Yeah. He came up -- I don't know which one.

GLENN: John probably.

JIM: He did the Steve McQueen documentary. Did you see that? American Icon.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

JIM: He handed it to me when I walked out. And I went home and watched it. And here, we can arguably say that Steve McQueen was one of the greats. Physical actor. A guy who was absolutely the king of cool. But what was cool about him, he was hot about something. He was an orphan kid essentially. And I watched this documentary, and it just moved me to tears. Even at the end, he was searching for something greater. And he said there was a recording of him that his wife had gave out. And he said he wished he had touched more people's lives from Jesus. Billy Graham was there at the end of his life.

And he -- he was looking for his Bible, as he was dying. And Billy Graham gave him his Bible, who was a great that just passed away.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: And without Billy Graham, we would not have had the reaction from America. We needed his support, and he gave it to us on the Passion of the Christ.

GLENN: What do you think about the division between our faith sometimes? You know, between, you know, the Baptists and the Catholics and the Mormons and the Protestants and everything else. What do you -- how do we solve that and come together on bigger issues?

JIM: Well, it's certainly not going to be beating you over the head. I mean, if God wanted to, he certainly could beat us over the head.

GLENN: Yeah. Isn't he though?

JIM: What?

GLENN: Beating us over the head. I think he is starting to beat us over the head.

JIM: Well, it eventually can come to that. But right now -- I mean, there is a wrath and a justice that is coming if we don't essentially -- look, I really feel that the ideal way would be love that we would just naturally turn to him. And I got that at a young age.

But the -- we have an opportunity right now, to decide where we want to go. As far as, you know, our feeling, I do believe there is one truth. And we'll know that one day in heaven. If there were many truths, there would not be a truth. And there would be much divisions in heaven.

What there is probably the right way. But I look at Jesus and he did not beat people over the head with either turn or burn. Now, that is out there.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

JIM: But it's -- what I find is that you have the truth. Years ago, that would all -- it would be given to us, just truth. And essentially, that would become fire and brimstone. And now it's all grace. You know, all love and forgiveness and everything. But then that becomes sentimental hogwash. Our Lord is both truth and grace.

GLENN: Are you happy?

JIM: Yes. When I came in here, I was a little frustrated.

(laughter)

But generally, yes. Because I know that I'm -- you know, I -- I have the future forever with Jesus, you know, in heaven. And I tell people that. You know, I do believe it. And I do believe it's worth dying for. And I know I'm going to die someday. And I -- I tell people that because, you know, I tell people, yes, our Lord loves you. But I don't always feel that. It is hard. But, you know, come hell or high water, you do the right thing, no matter what.

You just try to keep doing it.

STU: Yeah. I want to talk to you a little bit about that. Because doing the right thing is really hard. And you're a guy who has actually walked that walk. You've really walked that walk.

JIM: You know Marcus Luttrell. That was the last event we were at. Marcus reached out to me because I put in a movie, The Count of Monte Cristo, "God Will Give Me Justice." And he wrote that on the cave wall.

GLENN: Yeah.

JIM: And he became close. And I was -- the last time I was with him, I was with him and Chris Kyle. And I never saw him again. Obviously, that night, we went out -- a great night. And he wanted to just talk about that. But how many soldiers that come up to me in the airports and, you know, Special Forces, guys just ask me about Jesus. They say, do you really believe in that? Because I heard you suffer. I heard you were struck by lightning. And had open heart surgery. That you went through horrible pains. Do you really believe in that stuff?

And why are they asking me that? And then eventually, they talk about, you know, I've had to take somebody's life, by my own hand.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. And what that's like. And is there a place in heaven for me? You know, almost like daring God. It reminds me of Gary Sinise in Forrest Gump when he's up at the top of the tower. He says, all right. God. You and me. And I just love to -- I identify with them.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

JIM: That there are people out there that will suffer whatever it takes because they feel a brotherhood. And I feel that brotherhood with our Lord. And I want to let them know that they're loved.

GLENN: Back with Jim Caviezel here in just a second. He's got a new movie out, called Paul: Apostle of Christ. It is in theaters Friday, the 23rd. That's this Friday. You can find out more about it at Paulmovie.com. Twitter handle @Paulmovie.

Jim Caviezel, when we return.

GLENN: Jim Caviezel. You might know him from many -- many movies that he has been in. Most famously, obviously, he played Jesus in Passion of the Christ. But also Person of Interest. The People's Choice Award. And -- and now in a new movie, called Paul: Apostle of Christ. And you play Luke.

JIM: I do.

GLENN: Tell me about it.

JIM: Well, the film is right at the end of Paul's life, like the last two weeks. And he's in the Mamertine Prison in Rome. And this is during the -- one of the biggest terror reigns of Christians, which was during Nero. And I basically get into the prison. And I try to bring his message of hope to the Christian communities that are barely alive in that area. And, of course, they're crucifying and burning them. Using them as light fixtures all over Rome. And I'm trying to give this message of hope. And he really doesn't have the message that they're looking for. They don't know what to do.

And so really what the film -- when I read it, I said, this is now -- this is just -- we're all playing characters in Scripture right now. You know, often people, when they look at the Bible, they say, well, it's a piece of history.

It's not the same as if you were to go back -- you know, we were just talking about Berlin, Germany.

And that's a history, you try to learn from history.

But this is something quite extraordinary, when you read Scripture, because it -- it goes -- it permeates your brain, into your heart. And bypasses it, and goes into that. And it's really -- and we're all playing a different character, you know. I got to play Jesus in the Passion. But some of us get to play Judas. And some play the Pharisees, and some are Herod. And that's playing out now.

GLENN: The Pharisees, the real problem there was the hypocrisy. And there are a lot of us, are Pharisees right now.

JIM: Yes. And there are Judases out there too.

GLENN: You've -- you've -- you've taken quite a hit your whole career. What gets you through -- what do you -- I mean, your low points -- you know, you've had -- you are a great actor. And because of what you believe, they -- you're not -- you're not asked to be in all of the great films.

JIM: Uh-huh.

GLENN: How do you get through that?

JIM: I get through it because I was in the greatest film there ever was.

You know, look, the -- I -- I almost never became an actor. I almost never did The Passion of the Christ. I almost never married my wife Kerri. I almost never adopted my three children. All three of them had -- two had tumors. One had the cancer, sarcoma.

And I thought, well, I'm not the kind of guy that can adopt. You know, I'm just not -- I'm too selfish. That would have been the worst mistake of my life, if I had not done those things. The path of Christ is hard.

It is the road less traveled. It is --

GLENN: Yeah.

JIM: It is. But it is one that is beyond -- anything I've ever experienced. And I know it's the way for me. I know -- yeah, sure, I've pouted and played the victim. But I realize that, yeah, it's not really going to get it done.

Victim is not a strong position.

GLENN: Jim Caviezel. The name of the movie is Paul: Apostle of Christ. It is in theaters this Friday. Don't miss it.

GLENN: Welcome to the program. We're glad you're here. Jim Caviezel is here. And Pat Gray has just joined us from the Pat Gray Radio Roundup or whatever it is --

PAT: That's exactly what it is. Pat Gray Radio Roundup.

GLENN: Whatever it's called, it happens after this program. Pat, Jim Caviezel. Jim, Pat.

PAT: Jim, we've met actually before.

GLENN: Yeah. I know. I know. I just wanted to make sure of that. I was being a gracious host here.

PAT: Yeah. That's nice. That's nice. Good to see you again.

JIM: Good to see you.

GLENN: So, Jim, have you been down to Waco? You know Chip and Joanna Gaines?

JIM: No, I don't.

GLENN: Do you know of them?

JIM: No, I don't.

GLENN: Oh, you're kidding me. They're great. Do you watch TV at all or do you --

JIM: I watch a little bit here and there. Obviously, just doing a lot of the scripts --

GLENN: Yeah. I know. I know.

But I was down at Waco.

PAT: This weekend?

GLENN: That place --

PAT: It's amazing.

GLENN: -- has totally transformed. These people are -- they're so good. And -- and people are flocking from all over the country.

PAT: And they've completely repositioned Waco, Texas. Because Waco was, what? It was Branch Davidian. It was wacko Waco. And now they're transformed it into this desirable place to go.

GLENN: Yeah. And it's really -- it's amazing. Because here they are. They're people pretty much like you that just kind of live their principles. And they're not ashamed of their faith. And they do this little show on HGTV. And it's turned into this monster. And I don't think people in the -- I don't think people in New York or Los Angeles even understand it. They think, well, it's a husband and a wife. No, it's their principles and their values that really set them apart. And they just -- there was probably $100,000 down there.

PAT: I bet. It's always jam-packed.

GLENN: It's crazy. Yeah. And they're not even there. It's crazy what they've done.

PAT: Yeah, yeah, but everybody there is hoping for a glimpse. You know, maybe this is the day they'll be running out.

GLENN: No.

PAT: I don't know. Straighten the shelves.

(laughter)

GLENN: Yeah. Straighten things up.

So Jim is here because he's in a new movie, Paul: Apostle of Christ. And, Jim, I love the story of Paul. But the thing that sticks in my mind, in Paul's life -- well, there's many things. But -- but when he's on the wrong side, you know, the -- the death of James, he's -- he's mentioned just -- give me your coat. Kill him.

JIM: Oh, Stephen.

GLENN: Or, Stephen. Yeah, thank you.

He's standing there, and he's listening to Stephen. And he's helping riling up the crowd. And he doesn't do any of the beating himself. Beating to death. He just says, give me your cloak. I'll hold it for you.

JIM: Yeah, essentially. Probably taken their coats and handed them stones, and have at him.

GLENN: Yeah. And just -- just -- I mean, it's real evil manipulation.

JIM: Yeah.

GLENN: Where he was the guy kind of behind the crowd.

JIM: Yeah. I think that when Stephen called out, you know, I see the Son of Man, repeating the words of Jesus, I see the son of man sitting at the right hand of the father, coming in the clouds of heaven, that reflection in his eyes, he probably saw our Lord right there and probably was the beginning of the end of Saul.

GLENN: How difficult would it be for you if you knew that Saul was coming your way and -- and you were told, you know, Jim, I need you to go give him a blessing real quick?

How difficult would that have been for you? I think that would have been terrifying.

JIM: Well, of course. But I look at just some of the videos and pictures that I saw from what ISIS did to Christians last year, during Good Friday, where they literally executed them by crucifixion.

And I -- I think the modern day Christians really have to understand that, you know, we're all going to die some day. And, you know, being in heaven, I want to -- I'd rather be known as someone who did something for Jesus than spending eternity without doing much for him.

GLENN: You spend any time in the Middle East recently?

JIM: Yes. I had to shoot a movie out there. The Stoning of Soraya. And that really exposed Sharia law. And it -- it is just extraordinary what happens to women there.

GLENN: Yeah.

JIM: And I played a guy named Fredom Seronjom (phonetic), who was a guy who was just out there to write a story about the ayatollah takeover of the Shah. It was a peaceful movement and what not. And out of this comes this woman's story of being stoned to death. And the stonings still take place. So it was -- I don't feel like we have a lot of help from many of the groups here, you know, many of the women's groups that weren't there to help --

GLENN: I will tell you that it's been encouraging to us. We've raised probably $30 million now.

JIM: Yeah.

GLENN: To get some of these Christians out. We've taken 7,000 out of the Middle East. We're rescuing slaves --

JIM: That's great. Yeah.

GLENN: And it's remarkable that there is a -- while it's not talked about, there is this -- this, I don't know, underground, would you call it, Pat? Kind of this -- something that's not on the surface. And nobody is talking about. But there is real concern for that. And real -- the people really helping.

JIM: Good. A lot of people are helping. But they're doing it in -- in the -- in quiet ways, working in -- like you say, the underground.

GLENN: Yeah. The Christians are unlike everything I've ever met.

JIM: Chaldeans, Syrians, extraordinary.

GLENN: They're not like anything I've ever met.

PAT: They're committed. They have to be. And they are.

GLENN: You know what, I read a quote this weekend. I had written down a long time ago. And I had forgotten all about it. They tend church. Not attend church. You know, they're tending every day. They are there. They know what it is. It's not just a place they go to every Sunday.

JIM: Yeah.

PAT: And they take it seriously because it doesn't come easy for them, like it does us. You know, when you have to fight for something and put your life on the line for something, I think that changes you inside a little bit. It makes you more -- it makes you more committed. And they definitely are.

GLENN: Yeah. And we get so fat and lazy over here on everything. That we don't know -- it has no value. It has no value.

JIM: There's a great line in the film where Paul says, to live is Christ, to die is gain. You know, I'm sure many of those Chaldeans, Syrian Christians, and Coptics, believe in the same way.

GLENN: Yeah.

PAT: It true on another topic that there's a passion of the Christ sequel coming?

JIM: Yes.

PAT: And you're signed on for that?

JIM: Yes.

GLENN: As Jesus?

JIM: Yes.

GLENN: Wow.

PAT: Well, he'd have to be.

GLENN: I don't know. It's the next day --

PAT: Now I've turned into John. So surprise!

GLENN: I mean, you don't really look that different. You work out and all that crap all the time?

JIM: Yeah.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. It's overrated.

JIM: Fortunately -- well, I have to because so much of the work that you do involves stunt. So if you don't keep that up, you're going --

GLENN: Especially on that. I mean, on that one -- that one was pretty serious. Struck by lightning.

JIM: Yeah. Last shot of the movie. Very last shot.

GLENN: What went through your -- I mean, besides Jews. What went through on that?

JIM: I was -- I was scared. You know, just -- but it wasn't my time. You know, it was -- I had physical problems, you know, with electrical heart and everything like that after that. And I was on a lot of medication. So in 2009, I had my first heart surgery. And then 2014 --

PAT: Wow.

JIM: -- was open heart. They in the clinic saved my life.

PAT: And it was because of that?

JIM: Yes. It was a combination of the lightning bolt and then -- and then the -- the hypothermia and then the -- the -- the pneumonia.

GLENN: Have you thought about suing Mel? Just taking him for everything he's worth?

PAT: He's worth a few bucks now. You might want to think about that.

GLENN: He's a really nice guy. You know, I don't know him at all. In meeting him, he's really quite brilliant.

JIM: Oh, yeah. He's a freak show.

GLENN: Going about 1,000 miles an hour.

JIM: He would be the Michael Jordan in my business of what he can do. You know, he has the -- it's extraordinary with him because, you know -- you've seen him in Hamlet. He can do Hamlet. He can do his range. His humor.

But just -- you know, even looking at Lethal Weapon, when Steve McEveety produced the Passion, produced the lethal weapon with Mel. You know, the opening of the movie, he takes a gun. He's going to put it in his mouth. And he uses a bullet. And he's going to commit suicide. And just how he layers and takes the -- if you have an onion, just peels it away. And later on, he's up on the top of the building. This guy is going to commit suicide. He's smoking his cigarette up on the building. He said, come on, man, it's not good to commit suicide. It's really bad for your health. You know, and you're laughing your head off. Because you know this guy just takes his -- but how he sets it up. And he gets you focused over here. He's smoking a cigarette. Here, you want a drag. And then he throws up another ball up in the air. And while you're looking over here, sleight of hand, he puts the cuffs on the guy's wrist. And then he's like, oh, you jerk, I'm going to jump. He goes, do you really want to do it? Do it? You know, I want to do it. So you go, no. The movie is over. Jumps off. And, of course, they don't show it. But then they jump on that big old bag. This guy is nuts.

Mel goes, oh, that's fun. Let's do it again. But that's just -- I mean, that's flatout, straight-up Gibson.

GLENN: When do you go into production for this?

JIM: I heard -- when I was speaking to him last time, he says, I'd like to be going. And he gave me a certain date, by that particular time.

GLENN: You're not going to give it to us. I'm not looking for a scoop.

JIM: Yeah. But, no, he just said, I would like to be going at this particular time. This is the one, two, three -- he's on the fourth draft of the shift. So I started talking to him about this five years ago. Nothing was mentioned. Then last year, both Randall Wallace -- they wrote Braveheart together. And just to show you how hard it is, that blueprint is everything. And now he's on the fourth draft of this thing. So he finally broke it. That's why -- I had never said anything about it. But he finally figured everything out. It's kind of like Thomas Edison gets to the end. You go through the alphabet. So by way of analogy, he starts at A and gets to Z. And then he goes, oh, my gosh. I figured it out. But now he has to go back to A and start all over again. But he finally figured it out.

GLENN: Yeah. Jim, good to see you. Thank you so much. The movie opens up this Friday. It is Paul: Apostle of Christ, starring Jim Caviezel. You don't want to miss it. It's opening in theaters everywhere. It's Paulmovie.com.

RADIO

Bitcoin Halving EXPLAINED: Will This One Be DIFFERENT?

The Bitcoin halving is here, but what is this event and will it be different from previous ones? Glenn and Stu explain what a Bitcoin halving is, what usually happens, and why some believe there won’t be a spike in Bitcoin value this time around. But are they right? Or is it still a good time to buy?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Hey, today is Bitcoin. What they call the havoc. Right?

STU: Happy havoc day, to those who celebrate. Yes. Ten hours away from now, it looks like.

GLENN: It sounds like something that would maybe happen, in -- what was that?

That film happened in Norway. It was like that summer festival.

It's like the halving, and they're all gathered in some beautiful place.

STU: Yes. What was that movie?

What was that? It was very -- it was one I wouldn't watch.

GLENN: It was creepy.

It could have been called the Halving.

Or, you know, When Magic Goes Bad. David Copperfield stars in the Halving. Now, I have to cut this woman in half. And he can't put her back. Maybe I don't --

STU: That would be a good plot. That's not what the halving is for Bitcoin though.

GLENN: Yeah.

STU: And you've seen the price go up. There's been various reasons for that over the past year.

The ETFs. Meaning a lot of money is flowing into Bitcoin for the first time, really. That is a big catalyst of it.

The other is the halving, which happens, what? Every four years.

You don't know exactly what will happen. As they get closer and closer, they can specify.

And it will be today, at some point. About ten hours from now.

GLENN: And what does it mean exactly?

STU: Basically, when Bitcoin started. You have to have miners with, who are going to mine the Bitcoin to kind of bring it into availability for everybody.

GLENN: And you knew this would involve minors.

STU: No, it's not like Jeffrey Epstein. Think of a coal miner, except digitally.

GLENN: Different kind of miner. Okay. All right. What are they wearing? Are they wearing pants?

STU: That's not important. That's not important. By the way, Bitcoin miners know they're not wearing pants. They're in their underwear in their mother's basement. At least that's how it started. It was people in their underwear in their mom's basement, basically. And they were mining tons and tons of Bitcoin.

Now, remember, Bitcoin, there will only ever be 21 million of them. They are sort of -- think of them being mined. They are slowly mined, this time, I think we've mined, 2140. I don't know. It's a long way. But the basic idea with the halving, is every four years the reward for the miners gets cut in half. So the reason that's important, is the supply shrinks.

So maybe, you go back years and years and years. There's tons and tons of Bitcoin going on. Getting mined every single day.

Now, that number gets cut in half.

It was like each block, which is about every ten minutes.

Each one of those, it was six Bitcoin. Were freed into the world.

Like released into the world.

Now it's like three. It shrinks every four years. 1.75. 1.5. Or 1.25. It's not exact numbers.

GLENN: Until it gets to zero and there's no more Bitcoin left.

STU: And that's at 21 million Bitcoin. So you are now at -- I think it's six to three, roughly, in this particular halving. And the other part about the halving that has been important to note, is every time, there has been one, over the next six months, there has been a massive increase in the prophesy Bitcoin. Now, will this happen this time? No one knows. Past performance is not indicative of future results, we all know the disclaimer.

GLENN: We really do know that disclaimer. You may not know that disclaimer, but we do.
STU: Yes. Very true.

GLENN: The views of Stu are not necessarily those of the host.

STU: This is not financial advice.

Past performance is not indicative of future results. We don't know. We have also had a very large rise over the past year. So some people theorized, it's already built in.

Right?

This time, the rise we've already had, is basically part of what the halving would bring. However, when you look at the charts over the past three or four or five halvings. We've had massive increases. All those times, where all of a sudden, everyone around you, was talking about Bitcoin. Almost all those periods happened between six months.

Three to nine months after a halving.

GLENN: After. Not before.

STU: Well, you've seen some rises before. Generally, speaking, the real pop has happened after.

GLENN: This has been a real pop. This brought us back to where it was.

STU: There's a reason to believe, there's more here. Again, the last one was in 2020. Do you remember the 2021 phenomenon?

Then you had a drop back down. We are now down back to where we were, 2021.

GLENN: Making a case that somebody should buy, just a fraction of Bitcoin.

STU: Okay.

GLENN: I mean, you know, when it first started, and everybody was on board. Everybody was buying Bitcoin.

Because it was like, I have three Bitcoin. You know.

STU: Yep.

GLENN: And now, most people cannot afford to buy -- no.

STU: Of course not. Let me put it this way.

Right now, you would say, Bitcoin, $60,000. Basically, it's only for a millionaire.

Someone who wants tons of money, who will throw into a Bitcoin.

You might say only millionaires can afford that.

You might say something like that. Think of it this way, there are 24.5 million millionaires just in the United States.

GLENN: 24.5 million millionaires.

STU: Yes. Right. Right now, there will never be enough Bitcoin for every millionaire in the United States to own one. That doesn't include millionaires around the world. There are already too many millionaires for just millionaires to get one of these things.

GLENN: How much of it do you think is lost? Permanently, forever, lost.

STU: Permanently. Like, for example, we know the Satoshi's account. Which, the guy who invented Bitcoin. We don't know who it is. Group of people. Or if he's dead. I think they're dead. That's my opinion. He has an account with 1 million of it, in it, that's never moved.

So we basically know, unless this guy reveals himself somehow in the future. Which is not likely, that a million of them are lost. We also know, early on, people were mining these things and getting thousands and tens of thousands of them. And just losing -- turning their computer off. And not thinking they were worth anything.

The estimates are that probably something like a third of them are lost forever. So instead of 21 million, maybe it's 14 million. Maybe it's 15 million.

Somewhere in that vicinity. Now that they're valuable, people are not losing them, of course. At least as often. It's still happening every day.

People screw it up. They lose it.

They send it to the wrong account. That stuff still happens. But you're probably talking about, let's say 15 million, that actually will exist.

You have 24.5 millionaires in the United States. In the world, you have about 60 million millionaires. So if you split up all the Bitcoin in the world, just among millionaires, they can only get a quarter of one each.

Now, if you can put some in there. The idea that these things will go down in value.

Over the very long-term. To me, is unlikely.

And part of that is, at the beginning of this, nobody knew. Right?

Like when I first invested in Bitcoin. And I don't have a lot of money in Bitcoin. But when I first started in Bitcoin. My thought was, I'm going to throw some money in this, let's see what happens.

I have absolutely no idea.

My thought was, there's a good chance. I said this to you, at the time. There's a good chance it goes to zero. It was a total gamble. I had no idea.

I liked the concept of money that can't be inflated and printed. Right?

I like that concept. That's why I was interested in it.

But, I mean, how many multi-trillion dollar industries can you remember going to zero?

I mean, is there any example of this?

GLENN: White star line. This has I don't think they were worth trillions. Right?

Enron was a big company, right?

Don't remember it being worth trillions. Bitcoin's market cap is over a trillion dollars.

GLENN: No. I can't see it going to zero. Unless all the central banks in the world say, not --

STU: It's so resistant to that right now. Though.

GLENN: I know.

STU: We're seeing countries open up. And start accepting it. You know, the United States of America, has now accepted Bitcoin ETFs. That's a huge embrace of this technology.

And look, I don't know. I can't tell you, it won't go down in the future. I would be surprised if it never goes down below these levels again. It probably will.

So you might buy today. And at some point, be down.

A lot of people bought in 2021. And thought, oh, my gosh, I've lost all my money.

Except, now pretty much every person who has ever bought Bitcoin in its history, if they held on to it, is either about even or up.

GLENN: Everybody. Even the people who bought at the very peak.

STU: Everybody. Yeah, unless you bought like a couple of months ago, when it hit 69-70 for a couple of days. There's a few people.

But generally speaking, almost no one who has ever purchased this and kept it, has lost money.

And that's that's quite a statement. Again, what other investments can you point to, that has that type of record?

There's almost none. So I don't know. You don't know what the future holds, but man, this is a technology that has proved itself incredibly resilient.

GLENN: I get really pissed at you, every time we talk about this. Every time.

STU: You get pissed at me.

Why are you pissed at me?

GLENN: Yes, I do. I blame you for bad decisions. Blame you.

STU: Why?

GLENN: I was with Marc Andreessen.

STU: Yes.

GLENN: It might have even been a fraction of a cent.

STU: It was before -- well before I bought it. That's for sure.

Because I remember the conversation.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And he's going to start some new thing with this new currency.

STU: Yeah. I remember you telling me this, at the time. I fortunately, did not listen.

GLENN: Yeah. Neither did I. Neither did I.

And we could have put hundred dollars in it, at this point.

STU: Oh, my gosh.

$100. Do you know how much that would be worth?

GLENN: It was a fraction of a cent. Wasn't it?

STU: I don't remember if it was that low, but it was really early.

GLENN: It was right as he started the digital wallet.

Coinbase. It was right as he started it.

STU: Gosh. This makes me physically ill.

GLENN: I think he actually told me that before he started it.

Or he may have --

STU: In the middle of making money or whatever.

GLENN: Yeah. He said, do you know anything about Bitcoin. You should invest.

Just take $5,000. And just throw it in this. And I'm like, uh-huh.

And I -- at the time, $5,000 was -- you know.

STU: You would probably be a billionaire.

GLENN: I would be.

STU: I can't imagine how many you would have -- I love this story.

GLENN: Well, look it up. Look it up.

Look up when they opened Coinbase.

And what the price of Bitcoin was. $5,000.

All right. Back in just a second. First, let me tell you about Ruff Greens. It's hard to know what to feed your dog these days. If you walk down the dog food aisle. You'll see hundred different types. Most of them are variations of the same thing.

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Ten-second station ID.
(music)

GLENN: So go ahead.

STU: What?

GLENN: Why he didn't you invest in it? You're always -- you're that kind of guy. You know, I just threw some money in it. Why didn't you --

STU: I mean, I think I did. I just didn't do it as early as that.

Again, I wish I had invested more. Then I wouldn't have to be sitting here with you every day. It would be a dream.

GLENN: If I had a time machine, that's the only thing I would change. And for that reason. I would go back in time.

STU: You would make me -- you actually wouldn't mind making me a billionaire, just so I wouldn't have to be here every day?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. That's the kind of guy I am.

STU: How about this, I'll it do for 10 mil right now. Get some financing.

So it depends. It's hard to know exactly when you talk to him. The Coinbase started in 2012. Coinbase is a little later, when you're talking a fraction of a cent, so it was about ten bucks in 2020 -- when it actually started selling Bitcoin. When Coinbase began that process, it was about ten bucks.

If you spent $5,000 then, you would have had about 500 Bitcoin, which would be worth $32.5 million. Which would be incredibly nice. However, my remembrance of this story was, it was before -- before that. When it was sort of being dreamt up.

So it could have been.

GLENN: It was one of the first times I've ever heard of Bitcoin. And I think I came back to you. And I said, what is Bitcoin?

And you were like, well, people buy pizzas with it.

STU: This is ridiculous history.

GLENN: That's exactly what he said.
STU: I don't think I knew much of anything. I had heard of it. But I didn't know anything about it at that time -- I definitely was not discouraging you in investing $5,000. That's exactly how you remember it.

GLENN: That's exactly how I remember it, Your Honor.

STU: And one fascinating thing I think that really hasn't fully taken -- taken root yet when it comes to the Bitcoin phenomenon.

GLENN: By the way, hang on just a second. I just have to say something. I said at the time. I said that, on the air too.

STU: Oh, really?

We should go back and find it.

We can probably find it.

GLENN: Marc Andreessen. He's at Bitcoin.

Blah, blah, blah. But Warren Buffett. He says, if you don't understand it, you shouldn't invest in it.

STU: Where did you find that?

GLENN: I wonder if anybody. If anybody did it.

What our earliest time was, when we said. Hey, maybe you should throw some money into it.

I don't know if I will do it. If anybody in the audience. Of course, there was somebody that was in the audience.

They're not now.

STU: Showing, they're billionaires.

GLENN: On a yacht someplace.

STU: I think that's one of the things that's most interesting in a societal sense.

That we had a lot of people. Because the early people into Bitcoin. Not like the people necessarily today.

But the early people into Bitcoin. Were people who generally speaking, were ideologically let's say Libertarian.

Or somewhat close to that.

GLENN: Yes. Correct.

STU: And there are now massive amounts of people, who became insanely wealthy over this process. And continue probably to get even wealthier.

And those people who would have probably been marginalized in society, at some level.

Maybe they would of been successful. But would never have that sort of power.

GLENN: No. They're the losers. Loaners. And creeps.

STU: And we've seen.

I mean, Libertarians, will describe themselves this way.

So we've seen now, that many of these people have made an impact. Right?

We've seen a lot of them. Marc Andreessen. Not necessarily, an ideological Libertarian. A lot of these people have risen.

Two of the richest people in the world. Are the Winklevoss twins. The people who had Facebook stolen from them.

GLENN: I think they're fictional characters.

STU: They may be. They were in a movie once. So I don't know.

GLENN: Sure. Anybody can play them. But I think anybody with Winklevoss as their name. And they're twins. I think it's too magical to be real.

STU: It's hard to believe.

GLENN: It is. It is.

Oh, let's call on the Winklevoss twins.

STU: For everything --

GLENN: Show up. Say their names three times.

Hi, we're here to grant any wish, with our magical Bitcoin.

STU: Right. Consider that they basically had Facebook -- in my opinion, Facebook stolen from them. They wound up getting thrown out.

Got some money for it. Were not insanely wealthy.

Wound up not with one, but two giant revolutions of the world.

They were at the founding of almost -- they invested a fortune in Bitcoin, right after that.

And now were multi-billionaires because of it. It's a weird people that wouldn't have normally been at the top of our society. Are now there. And hopefully, they've kept some of these small government routes, through that process.

And maybe they can Friday the country, in a way --

GLENN: No. No. Because when you get that wealthy. What you do, you know, I can get somebody on the phone.

I can make this happen. I don't want a stop sign here.

And I think we should also kill the poor. I will get both of those done. I will call my council member. And, you know, my master at the WEF.

You know what you know I mean?

You start protecting it, and then that all goes to hell.

STU: Maybe. Who knows?

GLENN: We should do what Star Trek did, and abolish all money. Learn how to live in harmony.

STU: That worked out well for them. They were poor in episode.

What are you talking about?

GLENN: How did they pay for those starships? How ridiculous was that?

RADIO

WEAK or BRILLIANT? Israel’s Response to Iran EXPLAINED

Israel has struck multiple targets inside Iran in retaliation for its recent 300-missile attack. But was this limited strike wimpy or brilliant? Former Department of Defense intelligence analyst Jason Buttrill joins Glenn to argue the latter. As opposed to Iran’s massive, but unsuccessful, attack, Israel launched a successful precision attack that showed Iran it could strike the country whenever and wherever it wanted — without Iran knowing. Jason, Glenn, and Stu also discuss why the increased tension in the region is all Biden’s fault. Plus, they review how YOUR tax dollars allegedly went to the families of Palestinian terrorists.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: We're dealing with a true ancient evil in the Middle East. It was -- we have Jason Buttrill here, who is main researcher for the Glenn Beck Program and also watches over military operations, and conflicts all around the world for me.

Explain, what happened yesterday, with Israel, and this wuss response from Israel.

Was this the response? Or a response?

What was this?

JASON: This was a brand response, in my opinion.

GLENN: Was it?

JASON: Well, what Israel essentially did. It's kind of -- all three of us. You asked us, what is going to happen?

We were all collectively right. You said, they would strike back at other targets. Which they did. In Syria and Iraq.

But they also struck in Iran. But it's definitely in the Middle East.

The proxy status is dissolving right before our eyes.

The proxy locations. They hit proxy locations. There's not a whole lot of information we do know.

What it looks to me, when analyzing previous attacks, is that these are locations that have been given Iranian weaponry, specifically like cruise missiles, and shorter range missile systems like the kind that hit Israel.

But they also struck near Isfahan in Iran. That's their main missile manufacturing area is right there.

So this was a very limited strike. I would say, maybe a few planes. Maybe a few planes.

They didn't even. I don't even think they launched the missiles from Iranian territory.

Which means probably somewhere over Iraq. They were able to reach up and touch Iran, without Iran knowing a thing about it. And completely destroying the targets they wanted to destroy.

Iran launched 350 plus missiles. Couldn't kill a single thing. Or destroy a single thing. They did this, in such a way, that showed Iran, we could hit you, whenever we want.

You will never know it. And it will be precise.

GLENN: Such a good thing for the people of Iran.

Because you cannot turn the people of Iran.

JASON: Exactly right.

GLENN: They're not part of this.
JASON: No. And there was no collateral damage that we know of, at the moment. This is how you restore deterrents. This is exactly how -- and let's be honest here. This is not a surprise or a secret, that the proxy status is dissolving in front of us.

And that the Middle East is becoming something new and something terrible. This is the result of foreign policy. This is Joe Biden's foreign policy. He went away from the Abraham Accords.

Reengaged with Iran. Coddled Iran. This is what you get. This is exactly what you get, and it is entirely unmet.

STU: And it's interesting too, that there is a level of deescalation here, by Israel as well.

Like, they did -- yes. This is as far as they have gone, right?

But it is considerably less than what Iran tried to do.

JASON: It's deescalation through strength. Iran has no choice, but to go back to their quote and say, we concluded this concluded. They had no choice.

Because right now, you have a bunch of mullahs sitting around the table going, oh, crap. We're kind of screwed here.

STU: Do you think that's what they will do? Are they going to say -- are they basically going to not respond after this?

JASON: I highly doubt against Israel proper. I highly doubt. I think they go back to the way Israel operates. Because they are decades behind Israel. Texting. And it really is jaw-dropping i mean, not only Israel, but the United States, all of our ally allies, how much far ahead we are against this axis of evil, like Iran, North Korea, russia.

They're crazy, and can do some crazy things. But we are way ahead of them. And as this shows, I mean, it really is kind of breathtaking and amazing just how efficient Israel is.

GLENN: So this not will maybe improve your mood much. But according to the Palestinian Authority's official news outlet, the Palestinian General Intelligence Service on April 4th provided a grant for 36 families perform of agency families who died or were in prison, as a result of their involvement in anti-Israel security crimes.

And they paid their families off, with money that came from us.

PAT: Unbelievable.

GLENN: We will pay the families of the martyrs, and they are using American dollars, that we are giving them to reward the martyrs and the families. So you've always got that one going for you.

PAT: Sorry. American dollars. Going to the Palestinians. Hamas.

American dollars going to Israel. As it should be, I believe, right now. American dollars also going to Iran.

American dollars going to Iraq. American dollars that will be spent when we have to deal with a lot of this stuff.

Where is there not the stain of our ridiculous foreign policy, geopolitics, how we teal with the entire region and world?

We're funding every single side here.

GLENN: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And -- and the right side, we're funding, I think, kind of against the government's will.

I think they will cut off the money for Iran. I mean, I'm sorry. For Israel in a heartbeat. If they could. They could get away with it. They would cut it off in a heartbeat.

Look at what's happening around our own country right now.

And no one is saying anything about it. You have people chanting death to America.

Quoting the Ayatollah Khomeini. In -- in large sections, and large numbers of major cities.

You have the campuses. What happened yesterday, in Columbia?

Police had to come in, and shut the whole thing down, yesterday.

We were talking to the -- the consulate yesterday. The Israeli consulate.

What is the university in New Orleans?

Tulane?

It has 50 percent. 50 percent of the population of Tulane, is Jewish. There are protesters there. And the Jewish students, don't feel safe!

JASON: Yeah.

GLENN: And who is doing anything about it?

JASON: That's why. I understand where Israel is coming from.

But I think they need to mass produce the video they showed us yesterday.

It has to be everywhere. It can no longer be ignorance, for you to chant death to America. That has to do with Iran. Iran greenlit the October 7th -- they have to!

GLENN: I asked them.

I said, look, can I put out a general call and say, come to a movie theater, with me?

And you guys can present it. But you can come in.

You know, we'll vet you in advance. So we know who you are.

And see it. And they said, no.

We can't do that.

STU: They just don't want everyone. What's reasoning?

It's disturbing for the families of these people?

GLENN: No. The families in many of these cases. One of the more disturbing things was the attack on the family. And these two little boys.

JASON: Oh, my gosh.

GLENN: I mean, it was unbelievable. And the mom survived. And she insisted that that video be included.

She's like, no. No. No, no. The world needs to see what happened to my family.

And so what was it she said? She said, we just can't --

JASON: She said, the people that see it, need to have a reason to see it. Or something like that.

GLENN: Yeah. She didn't -- I think their deal is, they don't want to deal in death. You know, they don't want to be seen as just -- but I have to tell you, it is -- it is -- if we could have seen the death camps in advance.

Okay?

If the American people could have seen the beginning of the death camps. And the showers. It's not enough to talk about it.

It just not enough.

JASON: I want to see these people continue to protest in that way.

If they have seen that part of the video and just a quick narration, these terrorists march into a village. They slaughter a dog, that was running up with a happy, wagging tail.

GLENN: Okay. Not an enemy.

JASON: Slaughter the dog.

It was a friendly dog. Then they go through, and you see their body cam turn, as it looks into the screen window. They shoot an old person sitting there in front of the -- behind the window.

You hear them groan and drop. Then you go to this specific voice with the boys. It turns to CCT footage camera.

They're in their underwear. You can tell they're woken up by the gun shots. This is -- the father takes the two kids, hides them. Shields them with his body from a grenade, and he drops instantly. Then the two kids are screaming, why am I alive? Is he dead? Why am I alive?

GLENN: Little kids. Little kids. One of them said.

JASON: Six, eight.

GLENN: Yeah, one of them said to the other, I think we're going to die. And the other brother came and comforted him and tried to, you know, heal him. The little kid had lost the vision in his eye. Couldn't see in both. He's gained back his vision now, in one eye. But the other brother was shielding him.

It was shocking!

JASON: And then, what do the terrorists do? They walk through the house, and start rummaging through their refrigerator. Drinking the juice and the Coke and stuff, looking for food.

It's the most animalist thing I've ever seen.

GLENN: And the kids were smart enough to hide. They ran and hid. I don't know where they hid.

JASON: That was God stuff right there.

GLENN: That was. How they got out of that house alive, and hid. When you saw -- you see the entire community. Everyone is dead. Everyone is dead.

JASON: Yeah.

GLENN: I mean, it was -- it's what happened in Poland, in Czechoslovakia.

When the -- when the people would go into towns. And they would put everybody into a church. They would chain the doors. And they would burn it all down.

And every single Jew in the community was dead. That's what it was.

It's shocking. And how these two kids survived is beyond me, other than a miracle from God.

JASON: I spoke to an IDF guy. He was probably in his 90s. And he was in the six-day war. It was in Sderot.

GLENN: Sderot was hit?

JASON: Sderot was hit as well.

GLENN: I've been there.

JASON: I asked him. How the heck did you guys win? He goes, at times, it felt like God closed their eyes and shut their ears. And that quote came back to me, when those two little boys when you see them run around the corner, when there's terrorists everywhere.

GLENN: There's CCTV footage on this whole area. And so you can follow the kids.

And they're running -- as soon as they leave the door. I don't know. Nobody spoke during this thing. But as soon as they opened the door, I'm like, don't do it. Stay inside. Stay inside.

And they run out. And then you see them running in an open space, between houses. And there are guys just shooting everything. Shooting everything.

And they just run and snake around, and they're not even -- they're kids. They're not trying to be, you know, low to the ground or anything.

They're just running like little kids run, in an open field.

And somehow or another, nobody saw them to kill them.

It's --

STU: Wow. They were survived.

GLENN: They survived. They survived. They survived.

STU: Let me ask you this: How would this play out?

If one of these large protests. The pro-Hamas protests we've been seeing ail around the country.

If you had two thousands of individuals people there, at one of these protests.

And somehow, or one of the big walls nearby, they just played this footage. How does that crowd react to it?

GLENN: That crowd will start saying, very soon, that this is all deepfake.

Let me give you --

STU: They would deny it.

They would be won over. And see the horror.

GLENN: Maybe some would.

The hard cores definitely won't. Hard cores definitely won't.

Let me just give you, this is the polling from the Palestinian territories of Hamas. This is taken after -- after October 7th.

95 percent of the Palestinians when asked, do you think people around you, will forgive what Israel did in this war some day?

This is -- this is asked like October 10th.

No. We will not forgive at all. Seventy-five percent of Palestinians are extremely supportive of the military operation led by Hamas on October 7th.

76 percent of Palestinians. Somewhat positive. Very positive view of the roll of Hamas. 97 percent of Palestinians have a very negative view of Israel.

97 percent, very negative view of the role of America.

84 percent of Palestinians have a very positive view of the roll of Islamic jihad.

74 percent. When presented with a choice of a two-state solution. Or a Palestinian state. From the river to the sea.

74 percent say, river to the sea. When asked about their own preference for the party, who should be in control?

60 percent said, Hamas.

85 percent -- 85 percent, responding to the videos. No. I'm sorry.

93 percent, responding to October 7th.

93 percent said, that they were fine.

That Hamas didn't commit any atrocities. On October 7th.

93 percent, no atrocities!

And you can't tell me, it's just because they didn't watch the videos.

A lot of these videos came from their own video channels.

That everybody is accessing.

And the people on the streets, know exactly what was going on.

JASON: That's the wrong question.

Because they don't consider killing Jews atrocities.

RADIO

What Happens if Israel SACRIFICES a Red Heifer?

Rumors are spreading that Israelis are planning to sacrifice a red heifer around Passover. But will the sacrifice actually be made, what would it mean for Jews and Christians, and what would happen next? Shoreshim Ministries founder Bill Cloud joins Glenn to explain: Will it usher in the End Times? Will the Temple be rebuilt? What does a red heifer even symbolize? What happened the last time Israel found red heifers? Have they built an altar? Should Christians see this as a sign that Christ is returning soon? And should Christians even be focused on this at all?

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: It is. And we will tell you about that coming up. We have Bill Cloud on back on. He is the founder of Jacob's Tent Fellowship. Also, Shoreshim Ministries.

And he's probably -- he's taught Biblical prophecy for a long time. And what I like about him is, he's not like, we're all going to die, it's coming tomorrow. He takes a very tempered look at everything and just can give you the facts that we know. But we don't know if those are the facts that, you know, God was telling us to look for.

Is that a good explanation? Bill.

BILL: Well, I do try to be tempered.

I mean, I try to keep all of my theology, in this solar system.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: So, you know, I try to be that way.

GLENN: Okay. And you said yesterday, that sometimes, you know, what we think is going -- we're looking for, is not necessarily going to happen, the way we think it's going to happen.

Can you give me an example of that?

BILL: Well, yeah. In Matthew chapter 17, Josiah goes up to the top of the Mount with Peter, James, and John.

He's transfigured. His face is shining like a light.

The disciples see this. They're coming back down the mountain, and they're puzzled. Because they asked him, hey, we follow that the prophecy teachers of the day told us that Elijah could come first.

But you're already here. And you're obviously the messiah. So how come Elijah didn't come first. And he said, well, Elijah did. But you missed it.

Because you were looking for that Elijah. But you missed the whole message that John the Baptist was giving, the spirit and power of Elijah.

So that's the very quick example of, we can be looking at this. It has to look like this. It has to be this size. And everything else.

And the whole time, God is doing exactly what was said, just not the way we were looking for.

So as I said yesterday. It's very important, as we read these professes.

We interpret them. We think they will happen this way. Based on what we see going on in the world today.

But I sometimes -- and maybe even a lot of times. It doesn't happen the way we think. It just happens exactly the way God said. And it's usually after it happened, we can look and say, yeah. Okay. I see it now.

So that's an example. And that is very important, I believe. In going forward. And, you know, when we see all these things happening in the world.

GLENN: So I often have thought, if you were alive during Hitler's reign, especially if you had a front row seat to it, you had to have thought that Jesus was coming soon. But there were a lot of things that had not been accomplished. For instance, the reestablishment of Israel.

And then the gathering of Israel.

And so, you know, if you knew your Scriptures. You would go, well, no. I don't think so.

But it could happen quickly.

But now, a lot of really big things have happened.

What's -- what big prophecies have been fulfilled, and what is still out there, that we should be watching out for?

VOICE: Well, you mentioned the reestablishment of the nation of Israel in '48.

The capturing of the old city, and the reeducation of Jerusalem in '67. Which at that point, gave Jews access to the Temple Mount.

Although, temporarily. So the -- it's a big one. And I might say, that, you is still ongoing. And it has not come to its ultimate fruition.

GLENN: And what does that mean?

What does that mean? The regathering of Israel?

What does that mean exactly.

BILL: Well, to make a long story short. Because of transgression. Because of rebellion. Because of all these different sins, Israel was exiled. And to this day, a lot of Israel is still scattered through the nations. So there are these multiple prophecies about how until the last, they have gathered all of Israel into the land. To the point, this is the way Jeremiah puts it. That they will never talk about the exodus out of I didn't want. But they will talk about the exodus from all these different nations, and because we aren't talking in those terms just yet, that tells me it hasn't come to its ultimate fulfillment. But because we will talk about, in just a couple of days how God brought his people out of Egypt.

GLENN: Right.

BILL: So it's an ongoing thing. But that's a really big one. But, no, there are other things that are happening right now.

I think the Gazan War is something that is very significant. Because there are prophecies about Gaza about the land of the Philistines.

I think this war has the potential. I'm not going to make the prediction. But it has the potential to lead into other things. The attack the other night.

Iran was said to be, at least, you know, affiliated with, you know, what's going on with Gaza, and these kinds of things.

So there are things going on right now, that do set stage. Potentially, for some things to happen.

And that makes our day a little different right now.

GLENN: What -- what -- that you're saying, that Gaza could turn into.

What are you referring to?

BILL: Well, again, there are different prophecies about Gaza, how it's going to be. You know, basically. But here's the thing that jumps out at me. It's the fact that Hamas has played such a big role.

The Bible names Hamas by name. There are prophecies against Edom and Esau, and it says because of the Hamas, that you committed against your brother Jacob, which is translated violence, I'm going to deal with you.

And Obadiah, it says, because you've committed Hamas against your brother Jacob, I am going to deal with you.

In Genesis, before the days of Noah, before the flood, it says that Hamas filled the earth. So I do not believe that that is just some cosmic. That's God way before any of this, you know, we were even thought of.

God is already telling us things in the beginning, to be on the lookout.

So the fact that Hamas has been the instigator, primary instigator, as it relates to what's going on in the Gaza War right now. To me, something is very, very important. And that means, it has the potential to expand into other things. Other prophecies. They talk about the construction of Damascus. And it leading all the way up to what a lot of people are looking for in the War of Gog and Magog. So all of that is on the table, as a possibility.

Is it going to happen right now? Again, I don't know. There are things that could happen that could lead to these more dramatic events. So, anyway, that's --

GLENN: Well, the --

BILL: That's what I mean by the Gazan thing.

GLENN: Well, the destruction of Syria, Damascus could happen overnight. The return of the Jews to Israel, you would think that would be almost impossible. You know, one of the things I've been thinking lately. You know, disconnected from end time stuff.

If I were a Jew today. And I saw the whole world starting to heat up like this. There would come a time, when I would be like, you know, I'm going to Israel.

I will at least stand with my own people.

Because it's the only place, where I may not be persecuted, you know, without a shot of standing up.

BILL: Well, and I think that -- this is going to sound maybe a little bizarre.

But God's way, is to put pressure on people.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: To move them into a place that they want them to be. I mean, that's just the plain and simple fact.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: So I don't discount that at all.

I think these things begin to unfold. It will become increasingly unpopular in the world. To be Jewish.

To be associated with Israel. To stand with Israel.

But at the same time, you know, God uses that pressure to kind of put people in the position, he wants them to be. To kind of put people in the position -- to kind of force his will. And it's always going to be for the best interest of his people.

But it doesn't feel very good at the time when you're being subjected to all that pressure.

GLENN: Do Iran and Russia and their alliance play a role in prophecy?

BILL: Well, a lot of people think so. I'm one of those. And based, primarily, on reading Ezekiel 38 and 9. This is -- I mentioned briefly a moment ago, the war of Gog and Magog. Right?

And so if you think -- if you read the prophecy, we don't have time to do that today. But if you think that Russia is the land of Magog, then I would say yes.

In fact, that prophecy talks about how this chief prince. This ruler, over the land of Magog will come from the far north. Well, if you start in Israel and go north.

If you go to the far north, you're in Russia.

So it seems that Russia would be involved. And, of course, the old Soviet Union was never a friend to Israel.

It was a line of Israel's enemies. If I were Netanyahu, I wouldn't trust Putin as long as I can spit.

So Russia is not a good guy in this regard. And then when you read that prophecy, Ezekiel 38:9, you'll see among the confederates, the first one that is mentioned is Persia, which of course is the ancient name for Iran.

Just kind of a sidebar here. Interesting to me, anyway. The name Iran, or the modern name Iran, is derived from the word Aryan.

Maybe it -- maybe that should tell you something.

GLENN: Yeah. I've always thought so.

Before we get into the Ark of the Covenant. Which I just find fascinating.

You said that we need to watch out for Esau.

Who is Esau in the Bible? And in modern times?

BILL: Well, Esau, of course, was the older brother of Jacob. He's all red and hairy, and he's impulsive. And he's a hunter, and all these kinds of things.

And he has no regard for the birthright. He has no regard for the covenant that God made with Abraham. Jacob is the more temperate one. He values these things that are eternal. So when Jacob obtained the blessing of his father Isaac, Esau vowed to kill him.

So as you read ahead in the prophecy, you will see, even though the man, Esau died, God still addresses Esau, also known as Edom, you know, centuries later, because of your hatred towards your brother, because of the hamas toward your brother, I am going to -- I am going to deal with you in the end.

And so to me, today, Esau is epitomized in those people, like Hamas. Like Hezbollah. They have this ancient hatred. And that's the way it's termed in Ezekiel chapter five.

And I would even include, Glenn, within that mix, all these people that are getting on the Golden Gate Bridge. And stopping traffic.

And doing all these protests and standing outside the New York University, last night.

Chanting death to America. In Dearborn, Michigan. I would include that, in the people that are identified as Esau from a Biblical point of view, not so much because they're descended from that.

GLENN: No. Because of their hatred. Unreasonable hatred.

BILL: Correct.

GLENN: Okay. When we come back, let me take a one-minute break, and then we will talk about the rebuilding of the temple and the Ark of the Covenant. Some say they know exactly where it is. And it's closer to the Temple Mount, than you might think.

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(music)

GLENN: Okay. So does the dome of the rock have to be destroyed for the third temple?

BILL: That's what most people think when they consider, you know, a building of the temple. Although, not everybody thinks that that is necessary.

And because there is some dispute about where the temple actually sat, where the Holy of Holies was.

There's a lot of religious -- where the dome of the rock is.

There was a gentleman, excuse me, back in the late '80s, early '90s.

A professor at the University. He felt that the holy of holies was actually a little north of the dome of the rock, at a place called the dome of the tablets of the spirits.

So most people believe that the dome of the rock has to go. There are some who believe that it's possible, that the temple could have -- it's not just north.

And technically speaking, could it be on the same platform. There's even a passage in revelation chapter seven. Where John is told to measure the temple of God. To leave the court outside. Leave that out.

The Gentiles. So some people have thought, well, maybe that is suggesting that there is going to be a temple, alongside either the dome of the rock.

Or the mosque. And, you know, I don't know. I find that problematic for a lot of reasons.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like the burning of the red heifer right there, you know, in Arab territory.

It might be a problem with that.

BILL: That's right.

GLENN: So, you know, the Ark of the Covenant is where they kept the Ten Commandments. And I know it was real. I know it existed. I never, ever thought, we're going to find that.

We're going to find that? Is that important for the rebuilding of the temple?

BILL: Well, technically speaking. The second temple.

This is the one that was built after the Babylonian captivity. And then Herod expanded it. That, we did not have the Ark of the Covenant in it. And it was still considered the house of God.

So there's historical precedent for rebuilding the temple and not having the ark. However, there's prophecies that talk about, how the glory of the latter house is going to be greater than the first one. Referring to Solomon, which is referring to the Ark of the Covenant.

So technically, they could rebuild it without the ark.

However, there have been those in Israel, since the reunification of Jerusalem, who not only do they want to build a temple of the Temple Mount, but they want to find the Ark of the Covenant.

And there are a lot of traditions, as to what happened to the Ark of the Covenant.

Some say, that it went to Ethiopia, which I don't believe.

Some people say, that Jeremiah hid it in Mount Nebo which is Jordan. Some people believe it's outside the old city, buried. And then there are quite a number of people. And particularly, people close to the idea of rebuilding the temple.

Who believe it's buried somewhere, and underneath the Temple Mount.

That's not really a big secret honestly. It's all oar the internet.

GLENN: No. But I find, if you know something about the Temple Mount.

We'll come back to this in just a second.

Because there's somebody a labyrinth of temples underneath, et cetera, et cetera. But I can't see how those have not been, you know, exhaustively gone through by those of the Muslim religion.

We'll give more of those in just a second. Stand by.
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(music)

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(OUT AT 10:29 AM)

GLENN: Welcome to the Glenn Beck Program.

We're glad you're here.

We're talking to bill cloud, as passover comes up on Monday.

We're talking about Biblical prophecies. Because there's a lot of stuff happening in the world right now.

Where a lot of people are going, you know. I think eye read about this someplace before.

But. No man knows when.

I mean, it could be a thousand years from now.

But it will happen at some point.

And we need to be aware. And I want to make this really clear. And, Bill, I think you'll back me up on this.

The Lord was not. He didn't look at Scriptures and was like, man. It doesn't have a snappy ending.

I want part two of this. So let me leave them on a scary cliffhanger.

The Book of Revelation was written, not to scare us.

But to say, look, all of these things will come to pass.

And it's almost. I think it's a blessing, that he says, and, you know, at this point, the seven-year clock starts to -- to tick off.

And he's telling us, this -- I'm not -- don't be shocked by these things.

They're going to be bad. And they're going to seem like they're never-ending.

But they're not.

And I'm telling you these things, so you have faith. And can make it through those times. Is that how you read it?

BILL: Absolutely. When you go to the Book of Revelation, by the way. And you look at the heading.

It says, the revelation of Jesus Christ. It does not say the revelation of the Antichrist or the tribulation or bold judgments and vile judges. It's about the Messiah. In fact, it says, in that book, that the essence of prophecy is the testimony of the messiah. The spirit of prophecy is about the messiah.

So everything about all this bad stuff, ultimately, it will point us to the messiah. Because all the bad stuff is just the Satan, and those who practice wickedness. Trying to stop the messiah from returning and sitting upon his throne in Jerusalem. To rule and reign.

So, yeah, it doesn't end on a bad note. It ends on what mankind, those who love and holiness had been longing for, since Adam was exiled from the garden.

A return, to be with God and God be in our midst. So that's the greatest thing that we could ever hope for. And all these things that we would see, is pointing us to that. So it's an excellent observation on your part.

It tells us these things. In fact, when he sat down on the Mount of Olives with his disciples. This is a -- by the way, Mount of Olives is where they will burn that red heifer when they do it. But anyway, he sits down on the Mount of Olives. And he says, tell me all these things, as you said, so you know this will happen.

But don't be dismayed. Don't fall in despair. I'm telling you these things, so that you will not be deceived.

I'm telling you these things, in advance, you won't be impulsive, and running after things that you shouldn't be running after. So when these things happen, keep your focus.

You know, kind of stay the course on what you know is true. So absolutely, I agree with you.

GLENN: Growing lawlessness is the sign of the last days. And we're seeing lawlessness, like I've never seen before.

Now, this has happened over and over again. Where societies have been lawless, and they collapse.

But lawlessness in the last days, it gives birth to the lawless one. Which is the Antichrist. Right?

BILL: Right. Exactly. That's exactly right. You know, a lot of people have thought, that the Antichrist have come to power. And he will create this lawless environment.

I believe a lawless environment gives birth to the lawless one. The final prediction of the Antichrist.

GLENN: To me, that -- that is -- makes sense.

We're -- you know, it was about 2000, oh, six. I was talking to Condoleezza Rice. And she used very specific language. She was on my show. And we were talking about, you know, what things look like now.

And, you know, what's coming our way. And she said, these things are birth pangs. Of the things to come.

And I thought, that was -- you know, rather unusual language for somebody to use.

Because it's very Scriptural.

BILL: Yeah. That's Biblical language for sure.

GLENN: Yeah, it is. And we are giving birth to something. I don't know if it's the -- you know, the Antichrist. Or the end times. Or just really, really bad times.

But there -- everything that we're seeing, these are like contractions and birth pangs. When things happen, you're like, ow. That hurt. And they're becoming faster and faster and closer and closer to one another.

We are giving birth to something.

BILL: Yeah. Well, in Hebrews, it's the birth pangs of the Messiah.

The Messiah is -- and his rule and reign, over the earth, that's what is -- that's what's being birthed. That's what's coming to fruition.

It's just in the process, the earth and everybody in it, has to go through these birth pangs.

Paul talks about how the earth is groaning and producing this travail and birth pangs. So that the sons of God will be revealed. That goes hand-in-glove with the messiah and his return. That's what's being birthed.

But just like in any birth, something that is wonderful. There's all this yuckiness, and pain and suffering.

Unfortunately, that pressure has to be there, to get those who are listening to the voice of the Lord, in the place that he wants them to be. And that is, not giving in to the lawlessness. Not giving in to the just crazy stuff, that society is pushing down our throats.

But to stay true, based on what Christians say.

So that's what's being birthed, as far as I'm concerned.

GLENN: Let me go back to the Ark of the Covenant. It seems like an Indiana Jones movie. It doesn't seem rule in some ways.

I know it is. Or I know it was.

But then it just kind of disappeared.

Nobody really knows what happened to it. People have been looking for it, forever.

And people are saying, it will be revealed. And some people believe it's under the Temple Mount.

I've stood, at the place where they say, right behind these stones, is where they think the holy of holies is.

Which is where they think the Ark of the Covenant is.

And it's a labyrinth of passageways and everything, underneath there. At least it used to be. But why -- why would it -- how could it possibly be still there, when, you know, the Muslims have been digging underneath the Temple Mount for a long time. And taking truckloads, of -- of dirt and antiquities out and just dumping them.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, how could it still be there?

You know, I don't know that I have the answer to that question. I will just say, my faith would say, if God wanted it to be there, it will still be there. He has a way of watching over things.

GLENN: Right.

But is it prophesied that it will be found and come back, or is this just something that some people think?

BILL: Well, the last time you see -- or you see a mention of the Ark of the Covenant. Is when Josiah tells the priest to take the Ark of the Covenant and put it in the house that Solomon had prepared for it. And, by the way, there are people who read into that. Well, the Ark of the Covenant was already in the temple. What is Josiah saying? Some people say, well, he was hiding it, because he knew the Babylonians were coming. And that's where some people think, well, it's hidden in somewhere around Jerusalem.

Most people close to the temple, are -- our rebuilt temple. Motivation. Think it's under the Temple Mount.

But, you know, it disappears from the record, is the point.

And the next time you see anything mentioned. It's in the Book of Revelation, actually.

After all this other stuff is over with.

All the bad stuff.

So, yeah. It is a big mystery.

I will tell you a quick story. Ninety-two.
I and another gentleman, along with an Israeli friend, we went to the office of Rabbi Yehuda Getz, who at that time was over all of the holy places in Jerusalem.

And to make a long story short, Rabbi Getz did not believe that the Ark of the Covenant was in Ethiopia. He did not believe it was there.

He felt very confident, he knew where the Ark of the Covenant was. And he did not tell us. But our Israeli friend, later told us, that in the early '80s, along with a lot of the men who were participants, in the relitigation of Jerusalem. '67. Actually, when these excavations begun, they were looking for the Ark of the Covenant. Because they believed that it was under the temple mount somewhere. I've even heard reports, that it was supposedly -- saw the place where it was kept. Now, I don't know that to be a fact.

So there are people who do believe it still exists. There are people that are in Jerusalem, who would love for that to be revealed. And I would suggest that if that were -- if you think the red of her will cause --

GLENN: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I can't imagine how that could be revealed, and the whole world not taking real significant note.

Whether you believe that the -- what's ever in it. Or that the remnants of the Ten Commandments. Or not.

It doesn't matter.

For the Ark of the Covenant to be revealed and come back.

That would say a lot, about Israel. About Jerusalem. About the times we live in. I mean, pretty much everything. Pretty much everything.

GLENN: Well, it still exists. And this is just my opinion. That's all it is, just an opinion.

I tend to believe that if it does exist, and it's going to be revealed.

Then it probably will coincide with the Messianic age, with the Messiah's return.

And I think that would probably be more likely. But that doesn't mean that there aren't people who would be very, very excited to be -- to have an opportunity. To find it, look for it. And if they could, bring it out.

And that would cause World War III, most likely.

GLENN: It probably would.

It's weird, Bill. When you're over there. You don't understand highway this little patch of land has caused so much turmoil really, in the world.

Why everybody seems to be -- you know, centered on that patch of land. Because it's not very big.

And it's almost like it's a pulse, you can feel it.

That Temple Mount. There's something about that area.

It's God's throne. And you can feel it.

It's amazing. It's amazing.

BILL: Exactly. Exactly. That, what you just said, is prophetic. Prophecy said, he will make Jerusalem burden themselves. And even more -- more so, the Temple Mount. Because that is where God's presence kissed the earth.

And the Ark of the Covenant was basically God's throne on earth.

So, yeah. It's a very contested piece of property, and it will be at the heart of conflict. Yes.

GLENN: Bill Cloud, thank you so much.

If you would like to follow him, you can follow him on his website at BillCloud.org. That's BillCloud.org.

RADIO

The Right WON’T WIN Unless it Does THIS

Recently, “America’s Cultural Revolution” author Christopher Rufo warned that “the Right faces an inflection point.” Instead of focusing on actually changing policies and culture, he argued, some on the Right have leaned into “conspiracy theories that lead nowhere.” Some of these, especially related to Israel, have caused massive debates. But how should we approach this divide? And what’s causing it? Christopher and Glenn make the case that the answer is self-discipline, NOT censorship, and providing better content than just “cheap attention” tweets. In order to win against the progressive elites, conservatives must get their own house in order first.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Last week, I saw Christopher Rufo, who I greatly admire.

Write and talk about something we don't need to talk about. But in that, he said, the right faces an reflection point. There are serious people, who are trying to advance a serious political movement, with a vision for governing.

There are also unserious people, who are willing to sell conspiracy. Leading us nowhere.

I care about politics, because I believe we have substantive work to do for the country. This requires putting together a coalition that is capable of taking responsibility. The choice is ours.

I responded to that. And people -- and I'm hoping Christopher didn't. But people thought that I was coming after Christopher and I, but I wasn't.

I was really frustrated with, he's right. But what does a serious option look like?

I said, I have great respect for Christopher Rufo. He has done more to expose the rot than many of us combined. But, Chris, the only option that I see that is viable is a return to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. All of our problems stem from the violation of these documents. Congress doesn't care.

Nor does it even attempt to do its job. Every administration is worse than the last. At this point, it is all powerful.

Supreme Court has trouble defining a woman. May God help us, with them defining any of the Amendments. Our Justice Department, Intel, and every agency has been co-opted by radicals. Those who believe in a constitutional republic are not the radicals. There is another option.

Return to e pluribus unum. The Bill of Rights and Constitution.

So I wanted to get Christopher on. Because I heard from so many people, that we were warring. And, Christopher, I'm sorry, if I've let anybody, to think I would stand against you.

Because I have some admiration for you.

CHRIS: Of course not. I didn't take any offense to it.

I found we were actually in agreement. I'm glad we have a chance to talk in greater depth.

I think you translation canned the problem there perfectly. But the question I'm raising is, how do we get there?

What kind of coalition do we need?

What kind of intellectual leadership, do we need? And then what kind of political leadership do we need?

And what I noticed on the right, especially on the horrific I can attacks against Jews in Israel, is that there's been a fragmentation.

And there's people chasing conspiracy theories. There's a rise. Kind of resurge answer, on the outer fringes of anti-Semitism on the right.

And then there are people elevating their profiles in media. On conspiracy theories, that lead nowhere, on kind of tabloid-style dossett that doesn't offer any kind of concrete possibility.

And so I think we have a media problem. And we have, in addition, a leadership problem.

GLENN: When you say a media problem, you mean the right media?

CHRIS: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I just -- I think if you look at kind of serious conservative media figures. And, of course, I would include you in this. You're always doing the reporting, the conversations, trying to guide people, towards something, that that they can do. Some legislation that politicians can pass. Some policy that we can adopt. Some counterculture that we can build. But I think given the dynamics of online media advertising, audience building, and then just the dynamics of kind of general tech and media trends.

Some people are being, you know, kind of generously rewarded with clicks and attention. Who don't actually offer anything substantive. And I think it gets some of our audience. And some of our listeners. In this outrage cycle.

Where they're outraged for outrage sake.

They're not being directed for guiding that outrage towards something constructive. And I've seen it. It can be really be damaging to people. And it's certainly damaging to a political movement.

And I don't think it's a failure of the audience. I think it's actually a failure of us, in the media, in positions of authority, in positions of leadership. You always have to guide people towards something that can make their lives better, and if we're not doing that, we're taking advantage, and we have to stop.

GLENN: So I completely agree with you.

So what is -- because we agree with the solution. And this is my point, back to you, was, I am very afraid of serious options. Because there is another split in the right. That is -- is willing to look at -- at extra constitutional solutions. And that's really dangerous. And starting to say, well, this Constitution, maybe it's old and dusty. Like the left has been saying.

No, no, no, no. No. All of our problems are solved, by two things.

One, the people living a better life. And I don't mean like, you're making more money. I mean, you're more decent, humble, and just better person. Plus, the rule of law. Being restored, as written.

So where do you see anybody coming up and really promoting that, Chris?

CHRIS: Well, I think that's exactly what we need to do. And I've been very vocal. There's a lot of frustration on the right. There's a lot of anxiety. But all of our problems can be solved through kind of normal -- Democratic -- peaceful Democratic means. We still have a great system.

But our system is atrophying because we're not using that system. And soiled point to the leadership of someone whom I admire very much. Governor Ron DeSantis in Florida. He had the same legislature, that Jeb Bush did. He had the same state Constitution.

And yet, he's using power effectively within the law, to make Florida a better state for people to live, work, and raise families.

And so I think we have to really discipline our own coalition, we have to stop engaging in these kind of fantasies, of extra judicial or extra parliamentary politics. And we have to say, if we are going to be the conservative, political party, the conservative political movement, we have to respect the documents that just be smarter. Be more persistent. Be more diligent.

In actually practicing politics. And so there are models out there, that are successful. And I think, we have another model of the kind of more, say, radical, extra constitutional model. That is the dismal failure. It's always been a dismal failure. When the left did it in the late 1960s and early 1970s, with those radical movements, the American people rejected them. If the right does it at any time, now or in the future, the people, the citizens will reject them.

It's a dead end. And we need media figures, that are kind of telling people to straighten out. To have self-discipline. To remind people of the constitutional principles that we're fighting for. And then to lay out a plausible plan.

Because people get desperate, when they think we have no other options. So it's our responsibility to show them the concrete options, not just spin out into conspiracy land.

GLENN: So, Chris, I do not -- I do not -- I don't listen to anybody else. I don't watch anybody else.

I read. But I have tried to cut my reading back to about four hours a day.

Because it's just poison. It's just all poison. But it's part of my job.

I have to read and be informed. So I don't -- but I don't hear things. You -- I am very concerned about just somebody doing something stupid. I'm also very concerned about this very, very small group of people.

That are Christian nationalists. But it's very small.

I am not concerned about the -- the average listener, if you will.

CHRIS: Correct.

GLENN: You seem to be -- I don't know if your concern is greater than mine.

And I'm pretty concerned about things. I want to -- I want to judge why -- what is it that you're feeling or is bringing this out, in such a passionate way? I want to make sure I'm not missing it.

CHRIS: Yeah. Well, I think we are approaching a critical period, in our country's history.

And, you know, I think the genesis of my comments. Was this -- you know, blowup between Candace Owens. And the Daily Wire. You know, Ben Shapiro's publication.

And, you know, I think that -- I tried to be disciplined. In my criticisms. People within our coalition. Within our movement.

But, you know, Candice had been arguing that there are secret gangs of Jews. Murdering people in Hollywood. She had rationalized Kanye West's, you know, kind of deranged antisemitic outbursts. She had been pushing stories about how the president of France's wife is actually a man. And these are stories that drive clicks. They drive controversy.

But they actually don't create anything substantive. And unfortunately, there is a kind of rising group of commentators and media figures. That have figured out, that the way to get cheap attention. Is to put forward stories like these.

And I just think that, we have to be, of course, kind of tolerant of a range of opinion.

But there also is an out of bound or a limit, that any political movement needs to maintain its own coherence and its own discipline.

GLENN: And you're not talking about censorship. You're just talking about self-control.

CHRIS: That's right. It's first self-discipline, and then it's also giving people a better option.

Of course, I don't think any of these opinions should be censored. They shouldn't be stricken from the record. The government shouldn't have any sway whatsoever.

But I think it's up to us, to have that discerning judgment. And to also show people, why this is such a limitation.

Why -- why it actually is not helpful.

And to get people out of this outrage cycle, that depletes them, and into a cycle of participation and politics in a real sense.

You know, politics is not, you know, tweeting conspiracy theories. Politics is actually winning elections. Changing the law. And managing institutions.

And so we needed a movement that is capable of doing that. And if we're not a movement that is capable of doing that, we don't deserve power.

We don't deserve to win, and we don't deserve to have our ideas shaping the law.

GLENN: I am -- we're talking to Christopher Rufo.

I am gravely concerned, that any time between now and really probably January 20th of next year, is the most dangerous place our republic may have ever been.

And that's including in the Civil War. We are -- we are at the edge of losing everything. Somebody does something stupid. We go to war. The economy collapses.

Whatever it is. There is -- there is a real shot, that we lose our freedom. It's happening all -- I mean, look what's happening in Brazil. This is -- this is happening all over the West, right now.

And I know, I have self-edited more than I've ever edited. Because I want to be very careful with my word.

Because I am so concerned, about the cries of dis and miss and malinformation. That will be wrongly pointed in people's direction by the state.

But it's important now, that we are speaking clearly. And as -- and as accurately, as we possibly can.

Do you feel the same way?

CHRIS: I feel the same way, and I'm very concerned about it. And I think this really dovetails nicely with my argument. If we don't have the self-discipline and if we engage in these kind of wild lines of media narratives.

It will provide, you know -- it's fake. But it will provide a kind of rationalization or justification for continued censorship. If the government and organized left, can point to a verifiably false conspiracy theories. They can then use it as justification for censorship.

Obviously, I don't support that. I think you should -- I think everyone has the right to say whatever they want. True, false, good or bad.

But, you know, we have to be realistic about it. And this is a major threat, of getting deplatformed. Of getting debanked.

GLENN: Yep.

CHRIS: Of getting kind of de-anonymized, exposed. And so we have to -- we unfortunately. Look, the New York Times can publish conspiracy theories for three years about Russiagate, they will be awarded the Pulitzer Prize, and they'll pay no price when it turns out to be all a pack of lies.

We don't have that luxury. I wish we did. But we have to take the reality for what it is.

We have to be more disciplined. We have to have higher standards. And we have to fight much smarter than our opponents.

That said, the good news, is that when we fight smart, like DeSantis has done in Florida.

There is a wide open vista of possibility for us.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

CHRIS: And we can truly create, you know, what I think of as a counter hegemony. That will create a bulwark or a defense against all of the awful things that the organized left is doing.

GLENN: Christopher Rufo, thank you so much. Thank you for being a friend. Friend of the show. And friend of freedom. Appreciate it.

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