Who are the real flat-Earthers?

Democrats love attacking republicans as “flat Earthers” so they can attempt to spend trillions of dollars to control the temperature without having to actually make a coherent argument to do so.  President Obama recently went down that road, in an attempt to paint the GOP as a bunch of anti-science morons:

 

 “We’ve heard this kind of thinking before. Let me tell you something, if some of these folks were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the flat earth society. They would not have believed that the world was round.”

 

This argument is ridiculous, and we’ve picked it apart a million times, so I won’t bother going into the specifics here.  But, my favorite new piece of information is this: the Flat Earth Society is actually still a real thing.  Like, they actually still believe that the Earth is a flat disc of land, surrounded by mountains holding the water in.  And they believe we are currently going up, which is why we’re sticking to the ground.  You see, gravity doesn’t exist.

 

Anyway, this is important because, believe it or not—the real Flat Earth Society has an opinion on man-made warming of the planet.

 

Daniel Shenton …the new president of the Flat Earth Society…turns out to have resolutely mainstream views on most issues. The 33-year-old American, ­originally from Virginia but now living and working in London, is happy with the work of Charles Darwin. He thinks the evidence for man-made global warming is strong, and he dismisses suggestions that his own government was involved with the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

 

That’s right.  Obama can call conservatives flat Earthers all he wants, but the truth is that the real flat Earthers agree with him on such important matters of science.  Aren’t you happy, Mr. President?  You might not want to hang out with flat Earthers, but they want to hang out with you!

 

(By the way, if you’re arguing against evolution, feel free to use this too.  But…for those 9-11 truthers out there…I mean, what are you?  Flat Earthers?)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6YJSTUXY3ZBBSRVKQM22BEIYWU Gatekeeper

     Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians
    http://www.amazon.com/Inventing-Flat-Earth-Columbus-Historians/dp/027595904X

    Neither Christopher Columbus nor his contemporaries
    thought the earth was flat. Yet this curious illusion persists today,
    firmly established with the help of the media, textbooks, teachers—even
    noted historians. Inventing the Flat Earth is Russell’s attempt
    to set the record straight. He begins with a discussion of geographical
    knowledge in the Middle Ages, examining what Columbus and his
    contemporaries actually did believe, and then moves to a look at how the
    error was first propagated in the 1820s and 1830s and then snowballed
    to outrageous proportions by the late 19th century. But perhaps the most
    intriguing focus of the book is the reason why we allow this error to
    persist. Do we prefer to languish in a comfortable and familiar error
    rather than exert the effort necessary to discover the truth? This
    uncomfortable question is engagingly answered.Inventing the Flat Earth
    is Jeffrey Burton Russell’s attempt to set the record straight. He
    begins with a discussion of geographical knowledge in the Middle Ages,
    examining what Columbus and his contemporaries actually did believe, and
    then moves to a look at how the error was first propagated in the 1820s
    and 1830s—including how noted writers Washington Irving and
    Antoinne-Jean Letronne were among those responsible. He shows how later
    day historians followed these original mistakes, and how this snowball
    effect grew to outrageous proportions in the late nineteenth century,
    when Christians opposed to Darwinism were labelled as similar to
    Medieval Christians who (allegedly) thought the earth was flat. But
    perhaps the most intriguing focus of the book is the reason why we allow
    this error to persist. Do we prefer to languish in a comfortable and
    familiar error rather than exert the effort necessary to discover the
    truth? This uncomfortable question is engagingly answered, and includes a
    discussion about the implications of this for historical knowledge and
    scholarly honesty.

  • http://www.artinphoenix.com/gallery/grimm snowleopard (cat folk gallery)

    Glenn the simple way of the flat-earthers agreeing with Obama is this:

    Birds of a feather tend to flock togeather.

    In this context, the case of global-warming fabricated farce routine is one part of their ongoing propaganda legends. Obama and his radical extremist are just one more part of the massive lies that have been told for so long that some people actually believe them to this day in spite of all the proof (scientific proof) that shows the truth in these matters.

    In the case of Obama for his normal insanity – he is naricissistic, delusional, tunnel blind radical ideologist, god-complex, messianic-complex hero figure who excells only in his own mind; he represents the pinacle of destructive ‘end of the road’ madness.

    He will change and rule everything as he sees fit with an autocratic iron fist and boot of steel; or he will destroy it all.

  • Robert Starkand

    I think to look at “flat earth” literally, misses the point.  What Columbus actually thought does not matter.  What is important is how the powerful imposed their political will by making assertions that certain things were true, imposing their policies based on their assertions, and silencing others who questioned their assertions; whether it was that the sun revolved around the earth, or the earth was flat or that man’s use of fossil fuels is destroying the planet.  The analogy of flat earthers actually fits the climate changers rather than those who are skeptical.. Flat earthers insisted that you would fall off the earth if you sailed out too far.  There were political reasons for this.  At that time trade focused on the Mediteranian and over land where Troy used to be, where Turkey and Anatolia is now.  Thats why the ancient Greeks destroyed Troy.  The city itself did not matter to the Greeks, the location did, because whoever controlled that location, controlled the trade between east and west.  Voyages across the ocean took focus away from the Mediteranian and over land, taking power away from those who benefitted from the trade they engaged in at the time of the old routes.  Likewise, imposing policies to “save the planet” controls the planet.

  • Anonymous

    Typical attempt of smear by association. Republicans are reaaaaaally getting desperate. Fun to watch. Keep at it folks.

  • Anonymous

    So it’s OK to label us Flat Earthers since we disagree with man made global warming. Is it also acceptable to label them Chicken Littles since the warnings out of their group make them sound like the sky is falling all the time!  Like to see their faces red with that label.

  • Anonymous

    Stu is arguing the against the ridiculous with more ridiculousness.  Try to focus buddy.

  • Anonymous

    awsome – except the red-face thing – their faces wouldn’t turn red, they would be too busy spinning like chickens with their heads cut off to discredit the truth

  • Anonymous

    I think I have a solution for all the liberals who have such disdain and contempt for the military, carbon emissions, capitalists and fossil fuels….Carve out the center of the country and leave the northeasterners and the West Coast libs to themselves.  On the other hand, the rest of us coexist with our oil, coal, farmland and protect our borders by our beloved military.  The global warmers can use bicycles to keep themselves from using those nasty fossil fuels which will drive down the cost of gasoline because demand will be lower.  On second thought, what will they be able to do about those tires that are made of petroleum and rubber?  Can’t hurt the rubber trees now can we?  Fred and Wilma Flinstone come to mind…weren’t their wheels made of stone from the quarry?  I don’t think they even had pedals in those cars but had to use their pudgy little feet to propel them.  Hmmmm…..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TBRVNEUZA5ATC4RIX6GYN2E624 Obama-Lies

    I knew it, I knew it!  I knew Columbus was all Wrong!  It was a conspiracy!  The liberals conjured this round earth idea in order to gain socialist control of our lives!  

  • Anonymous

    Wait.  The Democrat president tried to smear Republicans by association (snidely linking them to the Flat Earthers), and because Stu merely pointed out that those particular folks actually have a lot in common with the Democrats, you think this is *Stu’s* attempt to smear by association and this is a sign of *Republican* desperation?  What the heck was it when Obama did it then?

    Reading comprehension isn’t one of your stronger skills, is it, dear?  Or are you just another thundering hypocrite?

  • Anonymous

    Thanks for posting this.  I’d never heard of this book, but it’s now on my to-read list.  Wish it was a little cheaper, because I’m on such a tight budget.  I’m going to find out if our library has a copy before I order it.

  • mdkrause

    If the GOP are flat earthers, does that mean the dems are brain deads.  I mean your democratic symbol is the donkey? and the name of a donkey is the ass so does this mean Obama is the top ass and his brain deaders consider themselves asses? 

  • Anonymous

    Oh, please. Go back to what Obama said. He didn’t do the actual association, paranoid Stu just interpreted that way. You should be looking at your own reading skills, dear. Okay?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=503307783 Steven Thrasher

    Great point, Stu!  If conservatives better inform themselves of history, they can make a second turn on the idea that we’re “flat-earthers”: Since the ancient Greeks, the Western World has known the world was round — there’s even a “globe” (missing the Americas) in Ephesus.  The real issue was that they didn’t know about the Americas. The Irony is that Columbus’s motivation for his route was that the Earth could be dramatically smaller than what was then believed, which was wrong, but he just lucked out and found the Americas where he expected Indonesia to be . . . ergo, why he called natives “Indians.”

    Keep up the good work!   

  • Anonymous

    Sure.  Let’s do that, shall we?  Let’s go back to what Obama said. 
     
     “We’ve heard this kind of thinking before. Let me tell you something, if some of these folks were around when Columbus set sail, they must have been founding members of the flat earth society. They would not have believed that the world was round.”

    Read that through as many times as it takes you, okay?  Because that?  Is definitely “actual association.”  They “must have been founding members of the flat earth society.”  When you are a founding member of a group, you are associated with said group.

    How in the world did that slip by you?

  • Anonymous

    Did he say Republican? Huh?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1012029988 Merri Barnousky

    Isn’t the flat-earthers-versus-Columbus thing a myth anyway? :P According to Wikipedia it was Pythagoras who figured out the world was round…

  • Anonymous

    “Lately, we have heard a lot of professional politicians, a lot of the folks who were, you know, running for a certain office, who shall go unnamed, they’ve been talking down new sources of energy,” Obama told a crowd during a speech in Maryland. “They dismiss wind power. They dismiss solar power. They make jokes about biofuels. They were against raising fuel standards. I guess they like gas guzzlers. They think that’s good for our future. We’re trying to move towards the future, they want to be stuck in the past!”

    He was *obviously* talking about professional Democrat politicians here.  My bad.  *Lately* the focus has been on all these Democrats “running for a certain office.”  They’ve been campaigning and debating, holding rallies, trying to win that primary nomination. 

    And since Obama is, of course, running against these “Stuck in the past!” Democrats in the next election, he needs to do everything he can to make them look bad, right?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S77EN2RQAIM6TGRAATWU57Z4UU Bouncer

    I’ve made the argument that science are the real flat earthers. You see Noah knew the world wasn’t flat. In fact one of the reqasons they thought that the prophets were crazy is because they encouraged their flocks to press the limits. If you read Genesis closely, you find that the Heavenly Father referred to the Earth as an orb. The flat Earthers  were the scientists. The kings and lords used science to keep the populace in fear. It was the church that was the greatest threat to their rule. Astronomers like Galilao, were scorned by science. It is the haters like Bill Maher and Al Gore who are the flat Earthers. If the population finally discovers the bill of goods they’ve been sold by these clowns, the will be tarred and feathered. Just as the flat Earthers from eons past, these buffoons use fear to keep the sheep in line.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S77EN2RQAIM6TGRAATWU57Z4UU Bouncer

    I’ve made the argument that science are the real flat earthers. You see Noah knew the world wasn’t flat. In fact one of the reasons they thought that the prophets were crazy is because they encouraged their flocks to press the limits. If you read Genesis closely, you find that the Heavenly Father referred to the Earth as an orb. The flat Earthers were the scientists. The kings and lords used science to keep the populace in fear. It was the church that was the greatest threat to their rule. Astronomers like Galilao, were scorned by science. It is the haters like Bill Maher and Al Gore who are the flat Earthers. If the population finally discovers the bill of goods they’ve been sold by these clowns, they will be tarred and feathered. Just as the flat Earthers from eons past, these buffoons use fear to keep the sheep in line.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S77EN2RQAIM6TGRAATWU57Z4UU Bouncer

    I’ve made the argument that science are the real flat earthers. You see Noah knew the world wasn’t flat. In fact one of the reasons they thought that the prophets were crazy is because they encouraged their flocks to press the limits. If you read Genesis closely, you find that the Heavenly Father referred to the Earth as an orb. The flat Earthers were the scientists. The kings and lords used science to keep the populace in fear. It was the church that was the greatest threat to their rule. Astronomers like Galilao, were scorned by science. It is the haters like Bill Maher and Al Gore who are the flat Earthers. If the population finally discovers the bill of goods they’ve been sold by these clowns, they will be tarred and feathered. Just as the flat Earthers from eons past, these buffoons use fear to keep the sheep in line.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_S77EN2RQAIM6TGRAATWU57Z4UU Bouncer

    What about the flatbirthers? We all know obama is flat right? They continue to claim that the GOP are birthers. All he ever had to do was show his birth certificate, but no, he was enjoying all of the attention.
    I was born in 1961, my birth certificate has my footprint on it. Why doesn’t his? No, really. Why doesn’t his birth certificate have a footprint?
    If I were Nigerian and my son was born in Nigeria to an American woman, I might want to say he was born in America. That would give me an opportunity to avoid a lot of hassles and possibly a ticket to citizenship, should I ever want.
    If I were an American grandparent I might put a notice of birth in the local paper and get my political friends to help me with a birth certificate, in case my grandson’s father tried to keep him from me. See, if he’s an American, I can get help from the state dept. getting him back to America.
    I sure would rest easier if I knew the birth certificate had a footprint. It’s hard to get a footprint from a kid in Hawaii(Asia according to Obama), when he’s really in Kenya.
    Just saying.

  • General Kota

    The Democrats are the only flat earthers.

  • Anonymous

    You know what, they will pay in the end.    We know who they are but more importantly, we know who we are.   We are on the right side of history.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sonja-Allen/100001016297626 Sonja Allen

    You are right if they think we shouldn’t use fossil fuels & coal, they should stop using them completely. No lip gloss, vasoline, vicks, cosmetics,  almost everything they use has petroleum jelly, etc.  They can park their cars, lawnmowers, weed eaters,. The list is endless the products that are used everyday that use petroleum in some way.   No more shipping, flying. They  need to look at what they do & use on a daily basis before they badmouth everyone else.  

  • Anonymous

    Oh weird, a lib has been proven incorrect so he stops spouting his idiocy and disappears…how atypical…

  • Anonymous

    Actually, no. Obama never said Republicans, and that was the entire point.

  • http://twitter.com/GumsMonkNews Gums Monk News

    Well said Stu

  • Anonymous

    @Fine Tapestry,

    Let’s recap. You started off with,
    “Smear by association tactics! Republicans are desperate!”
    Thereby taking Stu’s comments and “associating” all
    Republicans with them in… wait for it… yeah. Smear by association
    tactics. The irony that you missed even that is pretty funny.

    I pointed out that if what Stu did was
    wrong (or “desperate”), then the same applies to Obama.

    You came back with, “Nuh, uh!
    Because he never said ‘Republicans’!” As a response this hovers
    somewhere between laughable and lame. Who Obama was talking about
    really doesn’t matter. What he said does. Stu did nothing more than
    turn Obama’s words back on him. This was Obama’s strike. Not Stu’s.

    And that’s the thing, dear. It doesn’t
    matter if it was Republicans or Democrats or Martians or Fruit Flies
    that Obama was referring to. By YOUR standards established in your
    first post, what Obama did was smear *someone* by association with
    his words. This, according to YOU is a “typical attempt”
    and “really desperate.” *Who* he was smearing isn’t the
    issue; if it’s a desperate smear tactic to speak of one group this
    way, then it’s a desperate smear tactic to speak of all groups this
    way.

    You and I and everyone who heard him
    speaking and everyone reading this here knows that he wasn’t
    referring to Martians or Fruit Flies or Democrats. I gave you more
    of his quote just in case you hadn’t bothered to read the full story.
    You KNOW he meant Republicans, but even supposing he didn’t,
    supposing he was talking about independent “professional
    politicians” or Libertarians or even Democrats, he still
    *smeared someone by association.* And thanks to you, we all now know
    this marks him as desperate. No, as reaaaaaaaly desperate.  Which is “fun to watch.” 

    Basically, you were so busy spouting
    off at the keyboard in your own desperate attempt to smear
    Republicans, you didn’t even stop to think how stupid your original contention
    was. But when I challenged you on it, you tried to backtrack
    and make the issue not about Obama smearing *someone*, but rather
    that *when* he smeared someone it wasn’t Republicans. You actually
    even said “that was the whole point.” Who the heck do you
    think you’re kidding? You at least answered one of my questions.
    Yes. Yes, you are a thundering hypocrite.  Otherwise you would have directly called Obama and Stu out, not just Stu.  Or do you really think
    that because Obama never actually used the word “Republicans”
    that what he said was fine and it only became bad when Stu threw a
    “Right back at ya, Mr. President!” at him?

    Your first post was nothing more than a
    juvenile attempt to insult Republicans. It was also, to borrow an
    overused phrase, an epic FAIL in that department. You’ve been trying
    to cover yourself ever since, but you’ve done nothing but dig
    yourself into a deeper hole with further nonsense. You made an
    idiotic post, Fine Tapestry. You simply lack the grace to admit it.

  • Anonymous

     What did you just do? You just attempted to smear all Republicans for what Glenn Beck said. That sounds like you are playing the guilt by association card to me. Typical brainless communists, trying to project what they are doing onto others to divert attention away from themselves.

    You better think long and hard before you post another idiotic statement because next time I will not be so nice in my reply.

    Have a nice day Troll.

  • Anonymous

    No different than O-Blame-o.

  • Anonymous

    Of course, science just gets in the way of our politically correct thinking — what’s the matter with us sheeple, using logic and science to govern our thinking?  Can’t we see  our dear Leader has it all figured out for us?  Let’ all get together and Bleat For Obama!!!!!

    NOT………

  • Anonymous

    Oh, virtual threats are so scary! You might use language that might hurt… Uhm, my feelings? What kind of idiot looser are you? Bite me you moron. I dare you do something more than tap dramatically on your keyboard.

  • Anonymous

    I’m afraid you wasted your time putting some worthless argument about something that seems to you like a burn, but it’s actually a sad tautology. Fail, dude, try again.

  • Anonymous

    @Fine Tapestry
    FT said:  “I’m afraid you wasted your time putting some worthless argument about something that seems to you like a burn, but it’s actually a sad tautology. Fail, dude, try again.”

    Translation from Troll-speak:  “I can’t actually refute the fact that I was a total idiot here, because I was and everyone who reads this knows it.  They are probably laughing their rears off at me right now, but I’m still sticking to my guns because admitting my first post was incredibly stupid is impossible for me.  Doing that might mean admitting I’m really not half as smart as I like to think I am, and no way will I ever let go of my self-aggrandizing delusions long enough for that.”

    Or, “I can’t back myself up with anything even close to a legitimate argument because nothing can take away from the fact that I didn’t have a leg to stand on to begin with, so I have to resort to just saying you failed to burn me.”

    *rolls eyes*

    Sheesh, Fine Tapestry!  Your latest response?  Doesn’t hover between laughable and lame.  It’s 100% pure, unadulterated lame.  It may very well belong in the Lamest Rebuttals of All Time Hall of Fame.  You might as well have stamped your foot and yelled, “Oh, yeah?  Well, your mamma wears army boots!”  Seriously.  It was THAT bad.

    And BTW: That would be dudette, thanks very much.

    To everyone else:  Sorry!  I’m done feeding the troll.  I know!  I should know better.  You feed them and then they keep coming back.  Ignore them, and eventually they crawl back into their dark caves and sulk about how nobody loves and appreciates their brilliant awesomeness.

  • Anonymous

    There was no threat, you imbecile. I was merely pointing out what would be the results if you continued to post your idiotic comments. There was no physical threat, though it seems you would like there to be one. Are you so lonely that you wish somebody would touch you or bite you? Sorry, I would rather shovel pig $h!t than to touch you, let alone bite you.

    I couldn’t careless about your feelings because you are a parasite. What kind of loser are you that demands that the government steal from your fellow citizens to pay for your healthcare and other socialist schemes that have proven to fail time after time. Believe me when I say how much it pains me to call you a fellow citizen.

    “What kind of idiot looser are you?”

    I did the honor of looking up your word “looser” from your sentence. I found that the urban dictionary had the best definition of “looser”

    looser

    1. A looser is a loser who can’t spell “loser”.
    2. Idiotic way of spelling “loser”. Most often used by teens and adults with no more than a 2nd grade grammar level.

    You have claimed you are a teacher. A teacher of what? Loser 101? or would that be “looser 101?” Do the parents of your students know what kind of incompetent piece of communist trash is teaching their kids? If they do, my bet would be you live in San Francisco which would explain much.

    You have proclaimed in the past how you despise everything about the free market capitalist system. That proves you are incapable of rational thought. You are truly a useful idiot to your beloved communist regime.

    Do you ever get the feeling the world would be better off without you in it? Because you should.

    Thanks for your time and have a nice day, Troll!

  • Anonymous

    So, I bet tapping dramatically at your keyboard really gets you off. The fun here is: you people take me so seriously when I’m having a ball jerking your chain. Feed the troll some more, will ‘ya.

  • Anonymous

    You actually wasted your time writing that?

  • Anonymous

    You actually wasted your time writing that?

  • Anonymous

    You really think people take you seriously? Not only are you a moron you are delusional. The truth is you are nothing more than a annoying insect buzzing in our ears.

    I’m so glad that you have a ball spreading lies and propaganda. That speaks volumes about your character, which quite sadly you have none. You try to project onto me what floats your boat. Like the cretin that you are, you admit that you get off on jerking other peoples chains with your lies. We already had this discussion previously and obviously you are to stupid for it to sink in.

    The only thing I am going to feed you is your own excrement. The most productive thing you could ever do in your life would be to choke on it. We got rid of your butt buddy Victor Tiffany and I’m sure we will get rid of you eventually too.

    Buh bye!

  • Bill Tilghman

    You still can’t spell Loser – or are you expecting a pass on that from someone with a “looser” interpretation of what constitutes English.

  • Anonymous

    It’s nice to hope.

  • Anonymous

    Aha, it’s kind of my thing. Now I’ll just keep doing it. Slips my finger (into y’all) every time.

  • Bill Tilghman

    No it doesn’t, it just makes you look like a loser who can’t spell what he is: a loser.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, and we all do about you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/laurie.munson1 Laurie Ann Munson

    There’s a simple argument that would put Obama and his followers in their place.  Compare the cost of producing fossil fuels into energy and then do the same with their precious Green energy.  There’s no contest.  I would bet it’s at least 10 times cheaper to produce gasoline into energy.  I have NO PROBLEM with green energy and I would bet nobody else does either if some brilliant mind found a way to produce it cheaper.  Instead of doing like Obama and send money to all of these now failed companies like Sylindra, why not take a billion dollars and dangle it like a carrot in front of a donkey?  Put it out there for all of the people in this industry as an INCENTIVE/GRANT for the first one that can lower the cost to that of fossil fuels will get it.  That’s a way you produce jobs and innovative thinking, not another Government handout. 

  • Anonymous

    Now we know what BO thinks of our Constitution.     He wants to re-write it!   
    Thank you Mr. Goldfinger for exposing what you really think.

  • Anonymous

    @ tisdnofn
    Those dems you talk about know which side their bread is buttered.    Obama doesn’t care.

  • Anonymous

    The dems aren’t flat-earthers– They’re more like the geo-centrists.  Bound by the the opressive church (now govt.) they had to teach that the earth was the center of the universe, and all things revolved around it- despite the overwhelming evidence of observation to the contrary. Global warming anybody?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_G75RVM5S3L2G2BHBHGAXG6X5PI Jim

    So, Republicans are “founding members of the Flat Earth Society.”

    Let’s remind Obama that members of his party, The Democrat Party, are the founders of the KKK.

    The KKK was founded to counter the efforts of the Republican Party to give civil rights to the freed slaves.  The Dems were kind of upset about all those black people voting and assuming office up to and including Congress.

  • Anonymous

    Why hasn’t anyone taken the opportunity to research the (earlier) past of Eric Holder and uncover these kinds of nuggets? He most likley has a closet full. Information about associations of the likes of Obama’s past extreme radical mentors is a sure goldmine. Why else would he aquire such a high position in the Obama administration? Conservatives could really benefit from what may lurk in the past. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/RUKPJAFOKFDTMLRU7IHDUMTQHI Jim

    You found the right idea.  Jimmy Carter gave a speach that we would be out of oil by the year 2000.  Do you remember 1979 when we were told we are going into an Ice Age?  Of course there was the destruction of the ozone in the 1980, global warming in the 1990s and climate change in the beginning of 2000.  Of course everyone of these was caused by us and we must change the way we live.  Everyone of these has proven to be wrong and the those of power only want to control.  it is very sad to watch and even sader that so many will believe

  • Anonymous

    1. Global warming is a scientifically proven fact. NASA has recorded thermal images of the entire planet’s average temperature clearly rising over the years. Glenn Beck has since admitted global warming is real phenomenon.

    These are just a few of the reputable scientific organizations across the globe that have concluded the same fact that global temperatures are rising, and that the primary cause is the 29,321,302,000 metric tons of annual carbon pollution being added to our atmosphere:
     
    -American Association for the Advancement of Science
    -American Chemical Society
    -American Geophysical Union
    -American Institute of Biological Sciences
    -American Meteorological Society
    -American Society of Agronomy
    -American Society of Plant Biologists
    -American Statistical Association
    -Association of Ecosystem Research Centers
    -Botanical Society of America
    -Bureau of Meteorology Research Center
    -Canadian Center for Climate Modelling
    -CSIRO Atmospheric Research
    -Crop Science Society of America
    -Deutsches Klimarechenzentrum
    -Ecological Society of America
    -Environmental Protection Agency
    -Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory
    -Laboratoire de Meteorologie Dynamique du CNRS
    -Max Planck Institute for Meteorology
    -MIT Center for Global Science Climate Modeling Initiative
    -NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies
    -National Academy of Sciences
    -National Center for Atmospheric Research
    -Natural Science Collections Alliance
    -NERC Centers for Atmospheric Science
    -Organization of Biological Field Stations
    -Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics
    -Society of Systematic Biologists
    -Soil Science Society of America
    -UK Universities Global Atmospheric Modeling Programme
    -University Corporation for Atmospheric Research

    2. Advocating that our nation should be lowering our dependence on foreign oil doesn’t mean that we should all stop using it entirely. It’s not a form of hypocrisy to advocate alternative sustainable energies while driving a car that takes gasoline. Minimizing our damage and ultimately helping petrol prices stabilize is just good sense. Essentially all of the posts I see misrepresent the liberal perspective by carrying it to inaccurate and extreme ends (like not using any oil, rubber, plastic, etc). This is a straw man fallacy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man 
    3. The Flat Earth Society supports an investigative methodology of zeteticism, not science. Furthermore, suggesting a link between flat earth proponents and either party (Democrats or Republicans) is a logical fallacy of association. Any two groups will always have something in common, and using irrelevant similarities to smear negative reputations of one across another is a foolish tactic lacking any argumentative merit.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacyPeace.

  • Anonymous

    You really should keep your nasty little finger to yourself because somebody is liable to break it off.

  • Anonymous

     Hate to break the news to you but the Earth has always warmed up and then cooled down. Or is it cooled down than warmed up? It is a natural cycle. The argument is about whether it is man-made or not. Which by the way it is not.

    Hmmmm, I wonder how all of the ice ages melted before man walked the planet to cause global warming?

  • Anonymous

    You seem to enjoy it. Frisky, aren’t you?

  • Anonymous

    Utterly disgusting and criminal.

    Disqus rape reaches new all time high. News at eleven.

  • Anonymous

    Al Gore?  Mr The Sky is Falling.

  • Anonymous

    I would snap your fingers off in a heartbeat if you dared to violate me. That is not being frisky you sick miscreant. You have serious mental issues and should not be anywhere around children, let alone be teaching them.

  • Anonymous

    Again. Virtual threats are pussy farts in the air. You know nothing about me. Leave me alone you stalking creep. Just ignore me, lest you want to keep exposing yourself to my miscreant expressions of humor.

  • Anonymous

    You don’t know anything period. Why don’t you just ignore us and leave? You are the oddball here. As long as you keep posting, I will be there to refute it.

    Once again there was no threat you limp-wristed miscreant, it is a fact. That fact will be the direct result of your sick attempt to violate somebody against their will. I know that is hard for you to understand since you like being violated. You need to understand that you are a freak and that your actions are not acceptable and the rule of law will back me up.

    So quit being a drama queen and leave. If you were capable of learning and discerning right from wrong, I would have no problem with you staying. But alas, you are not. You have proven time and time again that you are a ignorant leftist that is only here to spread leftist propaganda and to annoy people.

    You are mad because somebody is doing it back to you. Boo Hoo! Waaaaah! You can always track down Victor Tiffany and cry on his shoulder.

  • Anonymous

    Again. Here in virtual world, pretty much anything goes. Specially if one speaks in humor and satire. (I know, here comes your barks about what true humor and satire are). Let me say it clearly: I have no desire whatsoever to engage in sexual acts with anyone here. I have no desire to hurt, physically or otherwise, anyone here. Save your self-victimization. Your comment has the stench of stuffy pussy fart.

  • Anonymous

    Flag him and move on, Bones. Or report him to a moderator. He isn’t worth the spit to shine your shoes with.

    Besides, he’s a perv-pedophile like his butt buddies over at alternuts. Best not get too close….

  • Bill Tilghman

    Notice that when he gets the negative attention he craves by posting idiotic crap, he then accuses the respondent of being a stalker. That’s really a stupid game as befits the gamer.

  • Bill Tilghman

    Again, there is nothing funny about you. Being a wise ass is more about being an ass and not so much about being wise.

  • Anonymous

    I thought he was the stalker.

  • Anonymous

    Actually I have conversed with leading climate scientisty Gavin Schmitt, and he says that there is no doubt amongst the scientific community that climate change is being accelerated by humans,

  • Anonymous

    Goddammit sir, climate change is accepted by scientists. What is your evidence? Do you believe yourself smarter than scientists?

  • Anonymous

    I’m a liberal and I kind of love that idea.

  • Anonymous

    I believe that various hospitals and states have different policies on this. My birth certificate has no footprint.

  • Anonymous

    Wtf. That is not true in the slightest, Galileo was persecuted by the Catholic Church, and  Psalm 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.

  • Anonymous

    Yes, various Greek mathematicians. The Church reestablished the flat earth theory when they rose into power.

  • Anonymous

    Actually only the Ice Age has been proven wrong, as it was never supported unanimously. The ozone problem did exist, but we actually had an effect and decreased the size.

  • Anonymous

    I love the military, and I respect them immensly. But I would love to be seperated from the Bible Belt and their ignorance.

  • Anonymous

    He’s trolling. You feed him when you respond in a serious manner.

  • Anonymous

    Excuse me, but climate change is accepted universally by scientists.

  • Anonymous

    Are we talking about the same Gavin Schmidt who helped falsify temperature data in Climategate?

    Here are some scientists that disagree with you and Gavin’s assessment that there is no doubt in the scientific community.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/scientists_in_revolt_against_global_warming.html

  • Anonymous

    People that refer to followers of the Bible as ignorants is oxy-”moronic”, don’t you think? For the first time in a civilized world people call themselves “educated” and haven’t read the Bible. You ought to try it…it’s pretty good stuff! As a matter of fact, if you want to di a little research to educate yourself, study tge worship of Baal and see if you can draw up any parallels to the demise of our world today. If more people would follow the simple rules of the Ten Commandments alone we’d be a lot better off today. Good luck to you and God Bless…

  • Anonymous

    Obviously, with language like this, you must think the Bible Belt to be ignorant. Makes perfect sense.

  • Anonymous

    There are emails that have been discovered that say that it was a fabricated hoax.  Honestly, if we were in grave danger of the polar icecaps melting, don’t you think they would do something a little more drastic than try to charge us for our carbon emissions?  Every time some cow passes gas it is a carbon emission.  Get a brain, jonahmendy!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-L-Boone-Jr/100000178133968 Michael L. Boone Jr.

    Try to educate yourselves. Conspiracy theories are fun and all but man made global warming is real. You can’t pump gigatons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere every year and not expect consequences.

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm 

  • Anonymous

    I believe you are referring to Climategate. If so, that has been proven to be incorrectly interperated, and has undergone many investiagtions by various committees, and they have all found no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. As for the cow thing:
    1. They release methane, not carbon dioxide
    2. The level of cows is contributing to climate change. Cows have become much, much more common and even though it is a small factor, it is a factor. The polar ice caps already are melting. They aren’t doing enough by trying to charge for carbon emissions.

  • Anonymous

    By scientists, does it mean cliamte scientists? And it doesn’t mention Gavin Schmitt in there,

  • Anonymous

    Like what? And anyway, someone could have a horrible vocabulary and suck at spelling, but that doesn’t make them ignorant.

  • Anonymous

    Never said it did mention Gavin Schmidt. Maybe you should do your own research on Gavin Schmidt and then you can at least learn to spell his name correctly. That is the second time you misspelled your hero’s name.

    Your whole assumption that man-made global warming is scientific fact is false. Whether you or Gavin want to admit it or not. So why would Gavin Schmidt falsify data to prove what you, Al Gore and he claim is scientific fact? What kind of scientist falsifies data in the first place?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/J4Q2BDPCWWESLZ7X25BU3N5OJA Andre

    my aunts pay last month was $10,477. Go here to see how she did it LazyCash29.com

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/J4Q2BDPCWWESLZ7X25BU3N5OJA Andre

    my aunts pay last month was $10,477. Go here to see how she did it lazycash29.com

  • http://goo.gl/DvRNm Right Fielder

    So, your aunt is a drug dealer…

  • http://goo.gl/DvRNm Right Fielder

    ibid.

  • http://goo.gl/DvRNm Right Fielder

    Fairy-tales for Michael… Global warming was born unto two parents; Mr. Bad Science and Mrs. Faulty Data. They had high hopes of having beautiful offspring, but they gave birth to a lousy rat, instead.

    Weather is cyclical. Always has been, always will be… well, until Jesus comes again and it all burns. Global Warming Alarmists are one of two things; they’re on the payroll and stand to gain from the eco-hype, or they’re just plain ignorant and they bought into the eco-hype. Study the cycles, not the snapshots.

  • http://goo.gl/DvRNm Right Fielder

    Wrong, until you explain your definition of “climate change.”

  • http://goo.gl/DvRNm Right Fielder

    Wrong, again.

  • Anonymous

    Oh. you again. Sorry, you are too ignorant to argue with. Bye.

  • http://goo.gl/DvRNm Right Fielder

    I try to target the proper “audience” when replying. No doubt I aimed too high. But, don’t expect an apology, Jonah.

  • http://goo.gl/DvRNm Right Fielder

    Nice… I’m sure we’re all shocked you’re bowing out.

  • Anonymous

    Attacking the Illustration, Red Herring, and Tokenism, all in one little tiny article.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lrpirkl Lon Pirkl

    What caused the end of the ice age?  Were there cars then and industry? Were  deserts, that were once rain forests, caused by man?  Earth cycles come and go regardless of what man does.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lrpirkl Lon Pirkl

    And the earth is flat and if you sail to far you will fall off.  We are the center of the universe and everything revolves around us.  Disease is caused by evil spirits. Witches fly on broom sticks.  Ya, it is all believed by someone.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/IKZRSCMZT4JNWOPFPQA4GK44ZA Vonda

    my aunt’s pay last month was $10,477. Go here to see how she did it lazycash29.com

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/R6PE7G34EOWQFCC5VKOKB7TR3Q Angel

    my aunt’s pay last month was $10,477. Go here to see how she did it lazycash29.com

  • Anonymous

    Evolution is the greatest scientific HOAX of all time. The founders of Evolutionary thought, beginning in ancient Greece, looked for ways to explain life with out a creator God. In the 1700′s James Hutton, Charles Lyell, Erasmus Darwin (Charles’ father) and others knew that if they proposed “millions of years” of time for the then new science of geology, they could get people to believe in an old earth, and thus remove God, and the writings of Moses from the picture, and thus accountabil.ity to God.   The so called science of evolution is the basis of racism, communism, socialism and Nazism, as well as Eugenics and other forms of “social Darwinism.  There are many other evil fruits of Darwinian thinking. 

    Because their time scale is totally wrong, they assign too much time from the Ice Age to today.  Only a Global Flood, caused by the “breaking up of the fountains of the deep”, resulting in warm oceans, can cause an ice age.  (Secular Geoloogists cannot agree on a cause of the ice age.) The  Flood was approximately 3000- 2500 BC and the Ice Age began shortly after the flood. The Ice Age ended approximately 2500-2000 BC, and the earth has been warming up and the climate adjusting ever since.  See Dr. Walt Brown, “In The Beginning, Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood”, 8th Ed, 2008, 448pp for details.
    The Bible declares that the earth is a sphere, “He [God] sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,”  Isaiah 40:22 and “he [God] suspends the earth over nothing.” Job 26:7b.

  • Staff of Life Nutrition Consul

    Yeah, like all of those Styrofoam cups really had that much of an impact.  the depletion of the ozone layer is 99.99% due to increased solar flare activity, which both poles get the brunt of the emissions. 

    The hole in the ozone layer in the south pole has grown in size every year since it was discovered.  This has nothing to do with McDonald’s using Styrofoam or paper. 

    This is science.  I suggest you learn it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QGRXZ4T23QBBWLCEX7NJR24MUA Catz

     We exhale carbon dioxide Michael. Did you fall asleep in science class?

  • Anonymous

    Tonight I added a few more comments on my previous post to clarify some “Flat Earth ideas and to clarify Evolutions role in the 20th Century.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HSJULSAVFJIJYR6PCTCUPMNXRA Take 2

    I have been to a place in Africa where although you are surrounded by buckskin clothing numerous tribal languages going on witch doctors casting spells fly’s man yes evil fly’s swarms of ternite in your ears up your nose all while drinking cattle milk mixed with cattle blood man I looked out visualizing the egg shape side of our Earth as their sun set into
    deep deep blue orange fire hot red to black dark and very very flat so real.  

    poison

  • Anonymous

    John, I also believe that there are vast leaps of assumption when it comes to proponents of pure evolution, but I also believe that we have no idea exactly how it came about, how much time it came about, etc.  The bible gives no accurate representation of the creative periods of the earth.  The early translators of the King James Bible used words we could understand, so instead of saying “creative period”, they say “day”.  But what if God’s day is not the same amount of time as our day?  As a scientist, I very much believe that we evolve, but NOT in the way that so many scientists do.  Many of them wear their acquired knowledge as a badge of honor, smugly rejecting any facts or ideas contrary to their own.  In their pride, they reject the gospel teachings and religions of their childhood and feel that they have achieved a more reasoned plane in which THEY are God.  Evolution is real, but it does not make sense in the way that it is currently being taught to our children in public schools.  There are several hardcore scientific principles that they overlook in their zeal to join the “me too” in crowd. First, energy flows downhill.  In other words, to believe that life just happened by atoms and molecules battling the energy gradient to come together in a way that yielded life as we know it today is just foolish.  We know from the fossil records and from the periodic table exactly what elements, compounds, etc probably existed billions of years ago, but so far, they can’t duplicate it under any circumstances.  Two, in order to propagate the “proven” modern theory of evolution, they have to leave entropy out of the equation.  Entropy is the tendency of organized matter to fall apart.  We have all seen this in the rust of the Titanic, the creep of old age and homes that need constant care and upkeep because they tend to fall apart.  Over time, these compounds and molecules will return to their initial atomic state. Therefore, claiming that life occurred by reversing this principle is foolish.  Third, when DNA is changed, there can be devastating consequences, even when there is only one of the DNA base pairs that is missing or out of place or damaged.  Fourth, in actively claiming that science proves that God does NOT exist, they engage in an argument that they know to be frivolous because science is incapable of proving a negative.  For example, according to some authors I have read from the early 1800′s, they were convinced that we had discovered everything there was to know about science.  If we assume that we have all of the information and we can stop looking because we can definitively show that something doesn’t exist, we fall into a trap.  The technology of the day, while advanced for that time, was ridiculously incapable of measuring on the scale that we now possess.  Until the 1940′s we couldn’t definitively prove HOW we passed on our genes.  Galileo didn’t have the Hubble space telescope.  Physicians of the dark ages thought that people became ill because of “dark vapors”.  Modern science often makes the mistake of condemning the believer while ignoring the most basic principle of science in order to condemn or even teach future generations accurately.  Life is not an accident. The chances of a perfect organism coming together without messing any of this up could be equated to the chances that a roomful of chimps mindlessly banging away on typewriters could eventually produce, word-for-word, the bible.  Again, without intelligent design playing a part in this role, the scientists who teach evolution as “fact” are knowingly perpetrating a lie upon the less educated public.  In fact, there is FAR more information that supports intelligent design than that confirming evolutionary theory, but have you ever heard one word of that?  Of course not.  The scientists who present the theory of evolution in its current form have only one support for evolution.  That evidence is morphology.  In other words, they believe that by simply looking for design changes, they can accurately trace evolution to modern times.  There’s just one problem with that; it has been shown to be wrong on many occasions.  For example, one of the most striking differences between theory and reality is that morphology is very inexact.  When I young, I remember that scientists placed Neanderthals in the evolutionary line above homo sapiens (man).  About a decade ago, a Neanderthal baby was unearthed in Montana.  The baby was nearly perfectly preserved because it had been encased in pine amber.  Because of this, they were able to harvest DNA, which they then compared to the human genome.  The fact is that Neanderthals were not the same species of humanoids and we now know that they existed at the same time as homo sapiens.  My view of evolution is that it DOES occur, but it occurs within genetic boundaries.  This was God’s gift to us because it made us the most adaptable species on earth.  But when an attempt is made to significantly alter genetics, the results can be catastrophic, and contrary to what is commonly believed with regard to traditional evolution theory, in most of those cases, one of two things happens; 1. either the organism dies during development rather than allow the destructive genes to be proliferated among a healthy population, or 2. the organism has a shortened lifespan, thus ensuring that those genes are, once again, naturally selected out of the population and/or 3.  the organism is rendered sterile, thus, preventing the less robustly healthy population from being weakened genetically.  We ARE the product of evolution in that we evolve by expressing genes that help us to survive.  In other words, this is the survival of the fittest.  We are remarkably adaptable to our environment.  We only differ by around 2% of our genes from Bonobo chimpanzees, yet we cannot breed with chimps because it is that 2% that we were given to differentiate us from what is a highly intelligent animal to the miracle of life found in all the children of God.  We know that we can VERY rapidly evolve, much faster than the proposed theories because of those genetic differences.  For example, the first time that a wide scale study was ever done on any population documenting dental morphology was during the Civil War.  Many of the conscripts in this war went through an induction process in which the presence of wisdom teeth was documented.  Nearly all of the conscripts had four erupted wisdom teeth that were in good shape.  The jaws of these men are distinctly larger than the jaws of modern humans in the United States.  The extra crushing power needed to macerate the unprocessed foods of the day.  Today, we no longer consume foods like this in the USA.  Now, many people are born missing at least one of the wisdom teeth and most wisdom teeth will need to be removed because they simply have no room to enter the jaws. We have significantly smaller jaws than the average American during the civil war.  Eventually, these teeth will disappear from the human population as an adaptation from the change in our diets.  The Civil War ended in 1865.  These changes took place over a time period of around 140 years and continue to this day.  Based on the evolutionist tradition, the difference in what would be seen on a Civil War soldier’s skull and a modern skull, they could classify it as a new species.  Species are defined as breeding populations.  According to their way of thinking, it would probably be impossible for those two species to interbreed.  So, yes, evolution occurs, but we should also not limit God’s powers to use the sciences of biology and physics by stating that they are mutually exclusive.  How God did this I may know someday, but this is not one of those doctrines that is going to save anyone.  But evolutionists certainly should start being a lot more objective about intelligent design.  The more I discover of this world and the universe, the more all things testify to me that there indeed is a God.  Scientists who believe in many of their traditional theories believe in unlikely miracles far greater than anything Christ ever performed while on this earth.  

  • berlinoa

    Oh, oh Glenn – this comes from a guy who volunteered to be a member of the Mormon Chruch…. that tells it all! Please Sir, just shut up when it comes to anything scientific, you’re a good story teller, but science, please keep it off your plate, a Mormon has no credibility in the matter of science.

  • berlinoa

    … funny how dumb people become by just reading one book – the bible BS!
    Sir – take it from the higher authority – the bible is a fairy tale story book and HAS ZERO SCIENCE relation … for you it’s probably too late to comprehend – but in the name of Jesus – let all other people alone with your creationism superstition BS. Amen.

  • berlinoa

    Outch – admitting your ignorance makes you feel good… hmm?
    This blog is a freak show of church ignoranties …
    Everything you state here is pure and simple BS! Nothing what you said has any relation to the truth of science, but don’t let you bother by the truth (Galileo scorned by science … a statement so plumb dumb in construction – makes me doubt that have you have even finished elemetary school),
    Fear is somethign religions use, to keep their sheeps inline , NOT science, as science has no relation to emotions, but you believe in higher powers and that is good enough??? Stay in church and pray for your ingorance – but leave science to people who KNOW – Amen!

  • berlinoa

    “We” .. do you mean probably the praying superstious crowd  of church hillibillies?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Travis-Bishop/1550744237 Travis Bishop

    I am a full blown right wing conservative. I am a firm believer in the free market society. I work, pay bills and taxes. Own my home and truck. Don’t live in my mother’s basement. I am politically responsible. Socially responsible. Involved in local, county and state politics and political issues. I do NOT think the world is flat. I also believe that our beloved federal government had something to do with the 9i/11 attacks. Even if they weren’t directly implicated in carrying them out, I believe that they allowed them to take place. I will close with these statements. I have seen overwhelming evidence that proves beyond a doubt that the government is implicated in the issue. For those who would spew insulting diatirbe  at me and those like me for taking such a stance, I pose the following challenge. Debunk the evidence, and prove your own standpoint that the government was NOT involved. The following responses are not to be confused with admissible evidence…
    1. I don’t believe that the government would do that
    2. Just because I think it’s crazy
    3. I dunno, just because
    4. Why would they do that, it would be crazy.
    5. Any other response not directly supported by solid, irrefutable evidence solidly proving your case on the issue.

  • John Bounds

    @berlinoa. You sound like my extreme friend from Sweeden who tells me I know next to nothing on science because he loves to put Scientists on pedestals as if they’re Gods and quotes them like the bible in his close mindedness they can do no wrong , yet when I asked him if he was a scientist his answer was no. So I guess he also knows next to nothing as well.  

  • Anonymous

    Melvin Cook, Henry Eyring, Harvey Fletcher, Wilford Gardner, H. Tracy Hall, Steve Jones, John S. Lewis, Richard G. Scott, James Talmage, Norman Tolk,  etc

  • Anonymous

    First of all, your belief is not admissible evidence either. Second, exactly what “evidence” do you have that we are supposed to de-bunk?

  • Anonymous

    You did physically threaten, twice. Gosh, you people get SO angry when someone pokes at your BeckBubble! Calling those who disagree with you morons, liars, evil, etc. simply prove to the rest of the world that Glenn Beck has brain-washed you into being self-righteous and closed-minded. Next week he’ll come up with some conspiracy theory that the world really IS flat, and that the evil, racist, liar, communist POTUS is keeping it from you, and you will believe it. Especially if George Soros is funding the cover-up!

  • Marcus Evangelista

    Gravity really doesnt exist the falling of objects at 9.8 meters per second is actually due to a bend in the space time plane caused by Earth’s large mass.  This was proved by Einsteins theory of special relativity.

  • Jimmie johns

    Ad Hominem. Point blank missing the point. Ladies and gentlemen the facts are quite clear our footprint is real and there is no debate in the scientific community about that. Keep your opinions in the pews and lets talk fact.

  • James Taylor

    I can’t draw any parallels between those two things because

    a) The worship of Baal is a meaningless act of ignorance as Baal doesn’t exist, in the same manner in which God doesn’t exist, and so the act of, in this case, blasphemy is null meaning that there will be no negative fallout as a result of the act

    and

    b) Our world is not suffering a ‘demise’ in any sense of the word – the human race could be viewed as having the potential to cause irreversible ruin to the ecosystems it inhabits on the Earth but the chances of that happening are slight, due to the oversight and predictive abilities that science provides and the chance it offers us as a species to avert certain courses of action once they are proven to be deleterious to our continued existence.

    That, and, you’re a dick – implying the Bible is some sort of accurate manual to help understand how the world works. Pah! Show me the list of references and citations and have it peer-reviewed then we can start to see it as some sort of truth.

    Would following the ten commandments help us deal with climate change/pollution/etc. Also, most people do follow the simple rules of the Ten Commandments – most of them are enshrined in law in any vaguely robust political system. Or do you know people who steal, murder and wantonly covet their neighbour’s oxen, irrespective of the consequences?