Glenn didn't get a chance to talk about Franklin Graham's heated interview on MSNBC yesterday so he took it on today. The MSNBC crew relentlessly tried to get Graham to say that Obama is not a Christian, which he clearly refused to say, but that didn't stop the hosts from declaring he said it anyway.
Watch the interview below:
And Part 2:
“I asked him when he was running… how he came to faith in Christ. He said that he was working in the South Side of Chicago in the community and they asked him — the community — asked him what church he went to, and he said ‘I don’t go to church.’ They said, ‘If you’re going to work in the community, you have to join one of our churches.’ And of course, he joined Reverend Jeremiah’s church. So that’s what his answer to my question was.”
“So therefore, by your definition, he’s not a Christian,” Geist said.
“You have to ask him,” Graham said. “I cannot answer that question for anybody.”
"What he's trying to say is 'I'm going to be a decent human being and I'm not going to judge the man's Christianity'," Glenn said.
But what was Graham's overall point? You judge a person by their actions and the content of their character, not whether or not they claim to be a Christian or go to church.
For example - Mother Theresa. By her actions she's obviously a Christian. Someone like Larry Flynt? It doesn't seem like it.
"Everyone knows Franklin Graham doesn't believe in abortion, partial birth abortion. He doesn't buy into the Marxist policies. He doesn't buy into redistribution of wealth. He doesn't buy into any of that stuff," Pat said. "Of course, he's going to wonder where this guy is coming from."
Glenn said that Graham, a preacher, is out on the front lines and leading a congregation of millions to feed and help the poor, live the way Christ intended, and more. Glenn said that even so, the ultimate person who says someone is a Christian is God. Glenn did say, however, that if you judge him by the content of his character he certainly seems to be living like Christian.
In the interview, Graham said, "I was 22 years old when I asked Christ to come into my heart. You cannot be born a Christian. You can only be converted and that is by putting your faith and trust in Christ."
"I asked him when he was running, when he was a Senator, I asked him how he came to faith in Christ. He said that he was working on the south side of Chicago in the community and they asked him, the community asked him what church he went to. He said I don't go to church. Then they said if you're going to work in our community, you have to join one of our churches, and of course, then he joined the Reverend Jeremiah's church. So that's what his answer to my question was," Graham continued.
"By Franklin Graham's definition that would not be a Christian. That is not someone who is converted. That is somebody who said he had to be in a church and he did," Pat explained.
"You know what? He's right by saying I have to take him at his word. What he just said was, the reason why he found Jesus is he went to church because he had to have it politically. There might be more to that story. I don't know," Glenn said.
"He is correct in saying I'm not going to judge him. I'll tell you a couple of things. Now how we can judge a man is by the content of his character. Now how do we know his character? By what he does. Does a man lead an honest life? Does he tell the truth even at his own expense? Let's just make a list of this," Glenn said.
"I'm just looking for character, character traits. Does he surround himself with good, decent, honorable men who may have made mistakes in the past? They may be people who were dirt bags at one time, but now are no longer dirt bags. They're trying to change their lives. Does he surround himself with decent, honorable men and women?"
"Does he surround himself with people of God? If you want to count Jeremiah Wright as that guy, if you want to count Jim Wallace as that guy. The last thing you go to is does he go to church, I think. Because if you're looking for Christ like qualities. If you are looking for is a man Christian, you have to look at what he does."
"Church is important to me, very important. The Sabbath is extraordinarily important to me. It's one of the commandments. So does he keep the commandments, yes or no? But that's one of the last things. If you're looking for somebody who doesn't say I'm a Christian. I met a lot of people who say 'I'm a Christian'" Glenn said.
How does Obama measure up when you look at the list laid out? He seems to fall a little short. After all, he tends to surround himself with some pretty questionable people (Marxists, Communists, Van Jones...).
"What you're looking for here is not the acceptance, but the conversion," Glenn continued.
"It's not what you say. It's has it affected you? Has it changed you? Are you helping other people? That's how I judge are they a Christian or not," Glenn said.
While Glenn did say that Obama does not seem to be someone who has been changed by their connection to faith and Christianity, many would say the same about Glenn himself.
"A lot of people can say that about me. Does that make them right or me right? No, no. Only God can tell you (whether someone is a Christian)."