A lot of listeners to the radio show have called in and say they stand with Donald Trump because he says the things other candidates are too scared to say. But when it comes to actual policy on issues like illegal immigration, does he really take a hard stand? Pat and Stu looked past the harsh (and inartful) rhetoric on radio today, and did a deeper analysis on what Trump’s actual policy on immigration reform. SPOILER: It looks a lot like amnesty.
Listen to the segment below:
Below is a rush transcript of this segment, it may contain errors:
PAT: Hopefully your Fourth of July weekend was a great one. Not so great, I guess, for Donald Trump who continues to get -- I guess he's being bludgeoned, is how I would describe it by everybody, except Ted Cruz. Which is kind of weird.
STU: That's not exactly my favorite moment of the Ted Cruz campaign.
PAT: Mine either. Mine either.
STU: We can go into that in a minute. He didn't say he supported the comments. But he said, I love Donald Trump. I think he's great. You know, we all get worked up about all this, and I like Donald Trump. There's reasons not to like Donald Trump, I would say.
PAT: Yeah. And even if you like him, reasons not to say you do.
STU: Well, that's --
PAT: Do you have to volunteer that information?
JEFFY: Ted's not going to do that.
PAT: I know he's not. But I don't think that's helpful to his campaign.
STU: You know the comments that we're talking about with Donald Trump, where he talked about, you know, the way it's being summarized in the press, to some level unfairly is he called all Mexicans rapists.
PAT: That's really not what he said.
STU: He didn't really say that, but he didn't exactly not say it either. We'll listen to the audio here in a second.
PAT: So you're saying he didn't say it, but he didn't not say it.
STU: Yes, I will say that's a fair way. Because he doesn't do the typical thing that you would do. If you're going to say, look, there are a lot of great people in Mexico. Not everyone who comes across the border are terrorists and rapists or whatever, but there are some. And you know what, we live in a country where we don't need to import crime.
PAT: That would have been a great way to put it. But that's not Donald Trump.
STU: The vast majority of this audience I would say agrees with that statement. But that's not what he said. What he said was the exact opposite, which was: I think there might be a possibility that someone isn't a rapist.
PAT: Now, it's not what he said because that's not how Donald Trump speaks. He's bombastic, and he's --
STU: Let's put it clearly. Dumb. It's a dumb way to put it.
PAT: It is.
STU: And he's now taken the -- as we talked about it, all the oxygen out of this campaign. Every single candidate that is out there, and there are many good ones, are doing nothing, but answering for the dumb things that Donald Trump says.
PAT: Yeah. As we've mentioned many times, there are more great candidates in this race at the same time than have there ever been in my lifetime, I think, in my opinion. And I think includes the Reagan years. That goes back, well, beyond 1960, because that's when I was born.
STU: Reagan, you had one great candidate. And he was a great candidate no doubt about it. And he was a great president. But you didn't this have depth. Where you have legitimately somewhere between six and ten really solid candidates out there. Ones you could see yourself maybe actually supporting and thinking he's going to live up to his principles for once.
PAT: Yeah.
STU: I mean, you would probably be wrong. Because once they're in office, they'll screw us as they always do. But at least there's the hope.
PAT: It's amazing how many times that's happened to people we've actually spoken with and warned them about that. And they've promised, oh, that's not going to happen to me. I'm immune to that. I got a force field around me of righteousness, and it can't be penetrated. And then two weeks later, they're on the other side. It's like, what happened?
STU: It's amazing.
PAT: It's incredible.
STU: It's a powerful place. I believe, was it Spider-Man -- I think it was talking about how, with great power comes great responsibility.
PAT: Yes.
STU: Certainly you have the absolute power corrupts absolutely. Clichés become clichés for a reason. And those seem to apply very well. The thing with Donald Trump though -- what amazes me about this conversation is the people that support Donald Trump. The people that say, okay, look, he's being beat up by the press. I'm sick of this PC nonsense. He came out, and he's telling the truth. We've heard this from many members of our audience. Though I will say Trump has not performed well in the polls, as far as the monthly poll we do of the audience. But there are passionate supporters of Donald Trump. And the argument seems to be, he's willing to say the things that are unpopular. He's willing to take the hard stand.
PAT: Is he? Is he willing to take a hard stand?
STU: Right. But the question is, hard stand for what? Yes, we all admire someone who will take a tough stand on an issue that is important to them like immigration. But what policy stands behind the tough words of Donald Trump?
PAT: Well, we have a montage to show what Stu is talking about here. And if you listen closely, you'll hear the policy he supports within this montage of saying really hard things against illegals. Saying really I guess outrageous things because the left will crucify you for saying these things. He's saying it. But then listen to his stance here, if you can pick that out.
DONALD: They're sending people with lots of problems. And they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
STU: Some, I assume, are -- it's a throwaway to him, that there could be possibly someone who is a good person/non-rapist.
PAT: I mean, he doubts it. I think. I doubt it. I doubt it. People tell me there are some good people among them. I don't know if that's true. But let's just say it is for the sake of argument.
STU: Right. It's a throwaway. It's in reverse of where it would normally be.
PAT: Mostly though, they're rapists. I mean, it is kind of -- it's a bad statement.
STU: I will say this, if there were 11 million rapists in the country from Mexico, that is the only thing that could possibly justify the statistics that Obama talk about with college rape. Because maybe if there were 11 --
PAT: And they all went to college.
STU: Were all constantly raping. Neither one of those statistics are true, by the way.
PAT: And there's more.
DONALD: I love Mexico. I love the Mexican people.
STU: That's great.
DONALD: Two waiters came up to me tonight, Mr. Trump, we love you. I said, that's great. I love you too.
PAT: Yeah, that happens all the time.
STU: Two waiters.
PAT: Two waiters come up to me and they say, Mr. Trump, we love you.
Where you from?
Mexico.
Well, I love you too. What a brilliant story that is.
STU: Oh, my God. The way he tells it.
PAT: I'm sure, completely true. The way he tells it, it's so compelling. You can feel the love he has for all Mexicans.
STU: Again, that's not policy. That's just, again, him talking about his love of Mexican waiters.
PAT: Yes.
DONALD: These countries aren't sending their finest. They're sending people that are -- like, got a lot of problems.
STU: Okay. Stop. Is that true?
PAT: First of all, they're not really sending them.
STU: Right. The people are coming on their own volition.
PAT: People are coming on their own. But the people coming on their own obviously aren't doing really well in Mexico. Right?
Otherwise, they would stay there. That much is pretty true. Because if you're doing well, you're supporting your family, you love your life, you're not leaving it and sneaking across the US border to get here illegally. That's obvious.
STU: Yeah, I mean -- he goes into this a little bit as this montage goes on. I think you pointed out, Pat. They're not sending Carlos Slim.
PAT: Carlos Slim is not swimming across the Rio Grande to get here.
STU: No. But when you do have a situation where you see high rewards with little risk by crossing the border -- remember, we complain about this. So he we know it's true. That we treat this as a speeding ticket. So Mexicans look at this and say, yeah, is it illegal? Maybe, yeah. But they don't do anything about it. So I might as well go over there and make more money
PAT: Right.
STU: So it's not necessarily the same way it used to be, where it was this incredible risk to cross the border. You're leaving your family risking life and limb to make a little money.
PAT: There's almost no risk anymore.
STU: As we saw with the illegal immigrant who crossed the border and was deported five times before he killed an American citizen. We should get into that later, and Trump has been touting that as another example.
PAT: Horrible story.
STU: And of course there are examples. And he's right, there is crime that comes across the border all the time.
PAT: Sadly, the biggest risk is, to them, getting here in the first place. And we should probably talk about that more. Because they're often -- a lot of these rapists Trump is talking about are these coyotes that sneak them across the border and then do horrible things to the women that they've helped cross the border. We've talked about the rape trees before where they leave the panties in the trees and all that freaky stuff. It's been documented. So part of that is true. It's just he put it so badly. He's just not a good speaker. I don't know how anybody could think this guy has a shot at the presidency.
STU: Again, we're so far talking about how he speaks about this issue, which might be inartful. But we haven't got to any policy yet. So let's keep listening.
DONALD: That makes sense. I basically said this. We need to strengthen our borders, and they said I'm a racist.
STU: Sure, strengthening borders.
DONALD: To get the cars and trucks and everything over here, let the illegals drive them in. They're coming in anyway.
(laughter)
I do great with Latino voters. I employ so many Latinos. I have so many people working for me.
PAT: Some of my best servants are illegals.
STU: Two waiters, I employ them.
PAT: I employ them. Waiters. So he's very much talking down to and about --
STU: Maybe we're just too sensitive, Pat. You know, because these people who are really tough on the border are going to say, you know what, it's just too sensitive. Let's listen to some policy, shall we?
DONALD: Common sense. They don't want these people, so they send them to the United States. Because the United States is run by stupid people. Some are good and some are rapists and some are killers, and we don't even know what we're getting.
I'm not just saying Mexicans. I'm talking about people that are from all over that are killers and rapists.
I've taken a lot of heat. And it's very unnecessary -- very unfair heat. Because, first of all, I love the Mexican people. How can I not love people that gives me tens of millions of dollars for apartments? You have to love them.
(laughter)
STU: How can you not love people who give you tens of millions of dollars --
PAT: For apartments.
STU: For apartments. Again, inartful.
PAT: Really bad.
STU: I'm going to say yes on that one.
PAT: Are you really? You're going out on that limb.
STU: On that limb. So waiters. My employees. And people I sell apartments too.
PAT: Crazy.
DONALD: I love them for their spirit. And then I talk about Mexico. And I love Mexico. But every time I talk about it, they accuse me of being a racist. You have illegals that are just pouring across the borders. I was really criticized for the border. But the truth is, it's true. They think it's Mother Teresas coming across the border. Well, I said drug dealers, I said killers, and I said rapists. And they made the word rapist -- they really picked that up.
I tell you, I love the folks from South America. They're friends of mine. Many work for me. Many are friends. Many buy apartments from me.
I have great love for the Mexican people. And I always have. And they like me. No apology because everything I said is 100 percent correct. You have 20 million, 30 million, nobody knows what it is. It used to be 11 million. Now today, I hear it's 11. But I don't think it's 11. I actually heard you probably have 30 million. You have to give them a pass, and you have to make it possible for them to succeed.
PAT: Wait. What? Hold on.
STU: Whoa.
PAT: Because there's 30 million illegals here. You have to give them a path. A path to what?
STU: The path to what. Because it's interesting, the people who support Trump seem to be the ones toughest on the border because they like the tough talk. Yet what they're getting is the tough talk with the Lindsey Graham policy, with the Jeb Bush policy.
PAT: It's so weird.
STU: He's saying he wants a pathway to citizenship.
PAT: It's amnesty.
STU: It's the thing that every one of the people that likes Trump -- call it amnesty. It's the same thing. And we have other clips to support this as well. Maybe we can do them on the other side. The issue here is what you're getting, all the problems with tough talk out of Donald Trump, and then you're not even getting the tough policy. You're getting the Jeb Bush/Lindsey Graham policy. Why would anyone want that combination of two things?
PAT: I don't know.
STU: Tough talk with crap policy? If you're going to get someone who will get in the news all the time for saying things that are controversial, at least they should have the best policy for what you believe in.
PAT: Yes.
STU: People are out there -- I can't believe Jeb Bush. He's criticizing Trump. They have the same idea as how to deal with this problem. Except Trump is saying things that get him into more trouble. Is that what you want?
PAT: And Trump is saying things that fire up those of us who want something done about the out-of-control illegal border crossing situation.
STU: Obviously it's out of control.
PAT: It needs to be fixed. We need to shore up the border. Now, there's not a single person alive who do not say that. Everybody says that, including Barack Obama. Says we have to shore up the border. He just doesn't do it. So everybody agrees we have to say at least that we'll shore up the border. So everybody says that. There's nothing there to this Donald Trump thing, except pissing people off.
STU: At the end of it, what did you get? You get a pathway to citizenship -- that's what John McCain was pushing. Now, you'll get that plus the tough talk. I don't understand the combination thing. We'll get into more here in just a second.
Featured Image: US presidential hopeful Donald Trump delivers remarks at the Maryland Republican Party's 25th Annual Red, White & Blue Dinner on June 23, 2015 at the BWI Airport Marriott in Linthicum, Maryland .PAUL J. RICHARDS/AFP/Getty Images