GLENNApril 04, 2017

Read the Fine Print: iTunes Is NOT Liable if You Start a Nuclear War

Don't even think about blaming iTunes for that nuclear war you're about to start. You can't hold them liable. It's in the fine print of the terms and conditions you agreed to but didn't read.

Filmmaker Cullen Hoback, director of the documentary Terms and Conditions May Apply, has read the fine print, and he joined Glenn in studio today for an enlightening --- and frightening --- conversation about your online privacy.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: Cullen, welcome to the program. How are you?

CULLEN: Oh, very good today. Glad to be in studio.

GLENN: Yeah, it's nice to have you here.

We wanted to talk to you about this ISP discussion that was going on last week with the government rolling it back. And we had a discussion here that I don't like the government getting involved in private relationships. I have a relationship with a company. If I don't like it, I'll go switch to another company.

CULLEN: Right.

GLENN: You are saying that there's a difference between that and -- and Apple. The ISP is different than Apple.

CULLEN: Well, I mean, the ISP is very different than a Google or a Facebook, right? Because with a company like Google, it's a search engine company, primarily. They also provide email. But you can go to some other search engine.

GLENN: Ask Jeeves.

CULLEN: Yeah, you can -- Ask Jeeves, if you wanted to. And same with Facebook. There are other social media tools out there, and they're free.

An ISP, we're already paying, you know, however much they can charge us, depending on how much competition is in the region. Right? And many people only have one option, especially when it comes to a higher speed broadband. So what we're essentially saying now is that, you know, you get the internet or you don't. And if you want the internet, well, everything you do online now is the property of that internet provider.

PAT: As far as terms and conditions do apply. How did this start with you? Did you just -- were you curious about what all these rules and regulations were that we were agreeing to, and then you started reading them? How did this begin?

GLENN: It was a lot of boring reading.

GLENN: I bet it was.

PAT: So you actually did read the terms and conditions that do apply?

CULLEN: I did.

PAT: Wow. You are the one.

(chuckling)

CULLEN: And that actually -- in fact, actually a lot of these companies just copy and paste other company's terms and conditions.

PAT: Do they really?

CULLEN: Yeah. They don't -- yeah, this happens.

PAT: Word-for-word. And so how long are these things generally? And what's the longest you've seen?

CULLEN: Gosh, it's between Apple and LinkedIn. LinkedIn has some of the most egregious concerns. And Apple is out to protect themselves. They're not really in the business of taking your data because they're trying to sell you a really expensive product.

PAT: Right.

CULLEN: So Apple, you'll just read through everything they've got. I mean, they go to the extent to protect themselves from an incident where you may use their technology to start a nuclear war.

GLENN: Seriously?

CULLEN: Yeah, if you read in their terms, yeah, they say, we are not responsible if our technology -- you are not allowed to use it for this purpose. Therefore, if you do, we are not liable.

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: What -- what could I possibly buy on iTunes that could start a nuclear war?

STU: Well, the documentary War Games.

CULLEN: Talk to Kim Jong-un. It's a message just for him.

GLENN: That's amazing. So how much trouble are we in with privacy? For instance, Stu and I used to be the biggest advocate of -- of keeping our fingerprints sacred. You're not -- no, you're not taking my fingerprints. And we've handed them over.

And we actually don't mind it now because we're so mentally lazy.

PAT: In fact, Stu loves it.

STU: I was telling Cullen off the air. Because I had him on Wonderful World of Stu, I don't know, three years ago or something. It was right when the fingerprint thing came out for iPhones and I didn't have it yet. And I remember it was kind of a story at the time, of, wow, you're putting your fingerprint in these things. And it's digital. And maybe it is locally stored. But, still, it was like another step of you, you were giving up to technology.

And at the time, we were talking about that, and I was critical of it in that like -- just like, this kind of freaks me out. Now, the one-tenth of a second that saves me every time I log into my phone is irreplaceable. I would fall on my sword to defend it. And because at any time you can improve convenience just a little bit, these things seem to go down the tubes.

CULLEN: And you're right. With each step, we're just turning up the heat up a little bit more. You know, the Constitution guarantees us a reasonable right to privacy. So what is our reasonable expectation of privacy?

And when we come to accept fingerprint scanning, or we come to accept going through an airport or having some kind of naked monitoring of our bodies, the bar keeps getting pushed back. And so now I think when it comes to all of the technologies that we're using, our experiences online, what are we willing to accept?

And I think that it's very difficult right now for people to feel the cost of digital services spying on them. Because they can't see it.

And what you can't see is hard to feel.

GLENN: Like what don't we -- what should we feel every time?

CULLEN: I mean, you should feel like a bunch of -- hundreds of weird people you've never met are looking through your -- through your window, rifling through your diary, getting into your brain and trying to know you better than you know yourself.

PAT: And they truly are doing this. They're going through all our stuff?

CULLEN: Everything.

PAT: Or is it just there, and they could go through it if they wanted to?

CULLEN: Well, there's not some person sitting around --

PAT: Yeah.

GLENN: And they're not looking at Pat, per se.

CULLEN: Yeah.

GLENN: They're looking at metadata.

PAT: Habits, trends.

CULLEN: Well, who is they?

GLENN: I don't know. You're the one with the conspiracy theory.

CULLEN: I mean, you have the companies. Right? And then you have the government. And there really is no separation between the two.

PAT: Really?

STU: That's a big problem.

GLENN: Why do you say that?

PAT: So the government has access to the things that Google and Apple collect?

CULLEN: Yes. I mean, this is what Edward Snowden and the PRISM program showed us, is that there was backdoor access.

PAT: That changes the whole thing. Wow.

CULLEN: And there's something called the third party doctrine. And it's the ruling from the early '80s, which says, if you give your information to a third party, a Google, a Facebook, a bank, you've given up your right to control that information.

PAT: And that includes going to the government? Holy cow.

CULLEN: Yeah, it's way easier for the government to go to one of those companies and get our information. They can get it directly from us. There's virtually no firewall there.

PAT: Let's get into the time tunnel, Glenn, and go back three days. Now how do you feel? Because that changes it, right? That changes it. Because the government is involved. It's not just selling to private companies. The government does have access, right?

STU: But the problem you have there is the firewall between government and corporation.

PAT: Yeah.

GLENN: Yeah, I still don't think the government should be passing laws. I mean, that's just like passing another bad gun law. Pass the right law. Put a firewall in between the government and the private companies.

STU: And we've argued with that on the Snowden -- with all the Snowden information. I mean, we disagreed with a lot of people who would be conservative in the audience and a lot of the candidates that ran last year. Because a lot of them embraced that sort of NSA needs to be seeing everything you're doing.

GLENN: No.

STU: And we're not on that bandwagon. The conversation initially started here -- it's an interesting one in that with this ISP ruling where they're talking about -- can your ISP sell the data? Pat was arguing I think the same way you're arguing. No, you have this agreement. And we were kind of arguing, I don't want the government involved in that. I don't want the government to make a rule saying they can't --

PAT: To mandate. Uh-huh.

STU: And my issue with that is, while I agree with you, it's a terrible policy. And it should be one of those things that they shouldn't do. They should not sell your data.

But even if -- let's just take it to a crazy extreme. There's only one provider. And they say everything that you search for, we're going to publicly put on our Twitter page with your name and face. And we're going to identify every aspect of what you've done online publicly every single time and we're you're only option.

Still, the government does not have a role there. Because of the fact that the government does not give you the right to get on the internet. If a corporation decides to build the infrastructure that lets you get on the internet, well, then they can put the terms that they want to allow you to access. It's not the government's job to guarantee you access.

GLENN: And, Pat, I want to just say that my argument hasn't changed. Your argument has changed. You're saying because the government --

PAT: No, it hasn't, Glenn. No, it hasn't. Your argument has changed.

GLENN: You're saying that, well, now, Glenn, your argument has changed because the government can get it. Well, no, what he's saying is, the government is getting it whether they sell it or not. The government is getting it. So the problem is not selling it. The problem is the government is getting it.

PAT: But still -- it's still a problem for me, but...

GLENN: Right.

CULLEN: Well, I think the factor here -- I think we can all agree we like the Constitutions.

STU: We're fans.

GLENN: Yes, big fans.

PAT: Yes.

CULLEN: Right now, the Constitution doesn't apply online.

GLENN: Anything.

JEFFY: Yeah.

STU: The Fourth Amendment in particular.

CULLEN: Yeah, it doesn't follow us into the digital realm. And so when the government I think passes laws related to the Constitution on the internet, we're not talking about egregious regulations, we're talking about constitutional regulation, which is different. It's different -- in essence, they're blocking themselves from easily getting access to this information.

PAT: Uh-huh.

CULLEN: Though, ISPs are required to retain -- I think we should be moving more in the direction of ways to stop the government from being able to access this information.

GLENN: Yes, I agree. I agree.

CULLEN: That's --

GLENN: Because the Constitution is a document on what the government can do, not what a private corporation can do.

PAT: Can't do. Yeah. Uh-huh.

GLENN: Or can't do. So I don't have a right to privacy in my -- I have an implied contract of privacy with Apple. But not a constitutional right to privacy with Apple. That's the government.

I have a constitutional right to privacy with the government. And they're not fulfilling that in any way, shape, or form. And they're trying to look like they're great guys by saying, "Oh, look, we're protecting your privacy with the ISP.

No, you're not. You're not -- you're not filling your fundamental mandate of the Fourth Amendment in the first place. So which is all just a puppet show.

CULLEN: So if there was a -- say your phone provider suddenly developed a tool where they could hear all of your thoughts and maybe they didn't tell you that this is -- this was going on.

GLENN: Yes.

CULLEN: Is there then a role for the government to say, no, you can't record people's thoughts and not let them know about that?

GLENN: If they didn't tell people, then yes. But I think there would be such an uproar that this phone company had installed this and didn't let anybody know about it.

CULLEN: So many years ago when I first made Terms and Conditions, I discovered it wasn't me. There were lots of technologies who knew -- there were keyloggers recording every single thing that we do on our phones. All of it without our knowledge. There was never uproar.

PAT: Wow. Did we agree to that in their terms and conditions?

CULLEN: No. No.

But they would have some way to justify it. If you're a good lawyer, you can kind of come up with some wishy-washy way to describe it. But they weren't specifically saying, we're recording every stroke.

GLENN: Does the AI thing bother you at all, there at that there doesn't seem to be any restraint on anyone anymore. Especially in technology. It's -- it's not should we do it? It's, can we do it? Can it be done? Yeah. Okay. Do it.

There's no -- there's no -- there doesn't seem to be real ethics applied on a lot of things. And when we get into AI. We're starting to get into territory now that things are going to change so rapidly. And we're really going to be boxed in to -- I mean, you know, fingerprints, six years ago. We're not going to use fingerprints. How dare you -- now -- because it's convenient. Brave New World was correct. Not 1984. They're just packaging everything the way we want it. Is there any concern with you on where we're headed?

CULLEN: I mean, if you look at what's happening with privacy since basically the advent of the internet, the march is moving more and more towards this kind of idea of total transparency. But that total transparency doesn't seem to apply to the government.

PAT: That's for sure.

CULLEN: So it's -- they want us to be as transparent as possible, have as much access to everything we're doing.

GLENN: Should be the opposite way. We should be --

CULLEN: Yeah, who is watching the watchers?

GLENN: Right.

CULLEN: And when you talk about this kind of technology, it is in direct relationship to how much information is shared and captured in the background. It's part of Google's master plan. It's why they want us to share all of our searches and desires with them.

GLENN: Right. Edward Snowden, hero, traitor, somewhere in between?

CULLEN: It's somewhere -- it's somewhere in between.

I consider him a patriot. He -- he made that decision, not for his own benefit. He lived a pretty sweet life in Hawaii, making a pretty decent wage, with a -- with a pretty hot girlfriend. So things were not bad for him. I'm going to tell you they were a lot worse in Russia for him right now than they were before.

GLENN: Sure. Sure.

CULLEN: I think what's a challenge here for him or for me at least what he did -- he released documents that were beyond just domestic spying. So you had released the documents related to Angela Merkel.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

CULLEN: You had released the documents related to spy programs abroad.

And that's where I think things start to get kind of gray. I wish he just focused on domestic. But, again, we're talking about one individual. Tens of thousands of documents. It was difficult for him to go through that. And he trusted a news outlet to then, you know, disseminate information in a way that was responsible. So that's where I think it's gray.

STU: What I find so incredible is that we went through the Snowden thing. All the conspiracy theories leading up to that would have said, this is happening. This is happening. And then Edward Snowden shows that it was actually happening.

GLENN: And nobody cared.

STU: And we still are going down this road faster and faster and faster.

GLENN: Is that crazy?

CULLEN: I thought everything was going to change after Edward Snowden came out with those documents. I was so hopeful.

PAT: Not at all.

CULLEN: And the only thing that Congress passed was something that separates their ability to directly have metadata. And now it's in the hands of the company. But we know that they can easily just get it from the -- that's all that really changed.

GLENN: It's crazy.

STU: Incredible.

GLENN: Everything since the last -- since Snowden and this last election, everything I thought about the American people, I'm like, no. Uh-huh.

PAT: We don't know them at all.

STU: Oh, crap.

PAT: Yeah.

GLENN: You know, you keep using that word "American people," I do not think it means what you think it means.

Thank you so much for being on with us. Appreciate it.

PAT: Really fascinating.

CULLEN: Yeah, glad I was in town.

STU: Where should people go to check out your stuff?

CULLEN: Oh, sure. Well, this film was Terms and Conditions May Apply. The new one is What Lies Upstream. And actually, I was in Dallas, at the Dallas International Film Festival with this new --

STU: Very cool.

CULLEN: Again, it's investigating corruption at the top level.

PAT: Is it coming out in theaters? Or the internet? How is it being released?

CULLEN: It will be in theaters. It will be on TV come the fall.

PAT: Awesome.

CULLEN: Yeah, there's lots of ways to see it.

GLENN: Good. Send us a preview copy. So we can see it. I would love to see it.

CULLEN: Will do. We'll have a spirited conversation about corruption at the EPA.

GLENN: You'll be back. You'll be back.

JEFFY: I'm sure that's zero.

GLENN: Thank you so much.

CULLEN: Sure.

RADIO

Will Iran’s Attack on Israel Lead to NUCLEAR WAR?

Over the weekend, Iran launched over 300 missiles and drones at Israel. But in a response that could only be seen as “miraculous,” Israel’s defense systems neutralized 99% of the attack. However, the world might have been a very different place if even a third of those missiles had hit their targets. Former Department of Defense intelligence analyst Jason Buttrill joins Glenn to lay out just how close we were to global nuclear war. So, is there still a chance that this will lead to World War III? Will Israel retaliate? And can Iran even respond a second time? The guys break it all down.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So yesterday, Israel, Iran attacked over the weekend, and it was a significant attack.

JASON: Yeah. You know that scene in war games, where it shows all these missiles. That's what it looked like. It was insane. 350 missiles. Missiles drones. All that. It was --

GLENN: So significant attack. They are launching the missiles, some of them into space. Did we get the video in yet?

JASON: Should.

GLENN: Of the -- what do they call this? The C Dome? I think.

They have the Iron Dome.

JASON: Oh, it's it is Arrow System.

GLENN: Watch this. Watch this. If you're watching TheBlaze. There.

STU: Fireworks.

GLENN: That is -- I feel like a million voices were all screaming and then suddenly silenced. That is a hit in space.

JASON: Exoatmospheric.

GLENN: So that's the Arrow system, going up out of the atmosphere into space, and hitting a missile as it's starting to come back in.

I mean, it's one of the most incredible things I've ever seen. And I think this is the first time it was ever captured on film, right?

JASON: This was the third interception in space. The others were last year, when the Houthis launched Iranian missiles against Israel. So just the weapon technology involved this weekend is nuts.

GLENN: So 99 percent, 99 percent of these missiles will tell you what was going on, but the biggest thing you need to know is, we could have very easily been in World War III today.

I think because of the Arrow missile system, which is a joint project between us and Israel, that really, truly saved the day. If these 300 missiles would have struck the ground, it would have been world war.

Absolutely world war.

JASON: Oh, if a quarter of these missiles actually got through. We're having a completely different conversation right now.

GLENN: Please tell us we have the Arrow system here.

JASON: I don't think we do. It was the second half of the development for that. So it's also an American.

We have dibs on it. We have our own system that is kind of pre-deployed on naval ships all around the world, so we do have the same capability.

GLENN: That's the Aegis System, right? That's not shooting things from in space.

JASON: It is. I don't remember. There's two parts of it. I don't remember the second part of it.

GLENN: The Aegis System on ships, is just a buttload of bullets, coming out.

I mean, it's just -- it's just round after round. Big butt of bullets.

JASON: Yeah. It's called a BLB. Buttload of bullets. Military technology.

GLENN: Yeah.

JASON: It was more than just the Arrow system. To try to get the scope of this. You have to look at the graphic of this. Submitted. Of where all this ordinance was coming from.

Yemen. Iraq. Iran. Lebanon. All converging on multiple different fronts. All down on Israel.

They have a three-pronged system. The further one out, is the arrow two and three system.

GLENN: That's the one shooting in space.

JASON: That's the one that can reach up and touch you in space. The second one is David's Sling. That shoots lower -- yeah, I know. They have such cooler names than ours does. That shoots like cruise missiles or like missiles that are flying low to the ground. And then you have the Iron Dome, which everyone is talking about.

All of those things were firing all at once, going on over the weekend. But you also had Israeli planes, going up and firing on cruise missiles, way the heck out there. Then you had US planes, and planes from the UK.

All of this converging in the skies, over the weekend.

GLENN: So is it that Iran's missiles suck so much?

Or is this as amazing as it sounds?

JASON: It's as amazing as it sounds.

So these are current generation weaponry that we're talking about. Iran is exporting some of this weaponry, giving it to Russia, to Russia can attack Ukraine. This is amazing.

99 percent success rate, does not happen. It doesn't. So, I mean, granted there was great technology here.

But I think there's some God work going on as well.

GLENN: I was going to say, isn't there Scriptures, when the whole world goes to attack.

That God just protects. It's like a dome over Israel.

JASON: Yeah. Yeah. It was so effective, that I think that Iran probably is rethinking some of their first strike strategy against Israel.

Now, you know they've all gamed this out.

And I'm sure, part of this attack, that goes into their plans. Like, they know that they want to take out Israel. If they had to, what do they need?

Well, they threw everything, but the ayatollah's kitchen sink at Israel oar the weekend.

GLENN: I think I was flying. I think I saw does that hit the ground.

JASON: They probably used that too.

GLENN: With the disposal, which is weird.

So if you would have had one of these nuclear-tipped. It -- I mean, so you -- so all of that work for a nuclear weapon. You ain't going to deposit it through a missile. Right?

Wouldn't that be the message that Iran would get?

JASON: You're not now.

Yeah. I don't. This sent Iraq back, I'm sure. Probably several years, as far as whatever their eventually goal is.

And that right there, is the problem. Because we know, they won't stop. So when you're saying, you know, when everyone is like pleading with her.

When Biden was pleading with Bibi over the weekend, to don't retaliate. On the one hand, I'm like, yeah.

Because I don't want to see the Middle East completely change overnight.

GLENN: It's not just that.

If they retaliate, Iran has the ability to set Europe and America on fire in the streets. And that's only a matter of time, before it happens. But I don't know.

I would like to delay it as long as possible.

JASON: But if you're Israel. Look at the overall picture here.

They're surrounding them. Look at the graphic of where all the missiles are coming from.

Israel is surrounded.

The strategy now. International community. Israel just keep your walls.

Just keep your walls up, and you will be safe. When has that ever worked, in military history?

Never. Constantinople. Greece. Troy. Pick your time. Your walls are an illusion. They will keep you safe, for a limited amount of time. But the eventual goal of an invading army is to topple those walls. That's Iran's plan.

So how long do you delay? And if they decide -- and Iran says, they're not delaying anymore. That is when the entire region changes forever.

They've been playing this little proxy war for 40 years.

GLENN: This is the first time, that they have, not used a proxy. Right? No proxy, it was Iran.

And so I saw -- and honestly, I thank God, that we are pausing at least. You know what I mean?

Because this will escalate into a world war that fast.

Just, everything in me says, once the Middle East is set on fire, Russia and Ukraine, and everything else, it's just going to be you. Just dominoes.

Because if the Middle East is on fire, and Iran is losing, which they would.

They're just setting all of our countries on fire, you know, internally.

So I was glad to see the pause. However, I was a little disturbed, that the news came out from the White House. Because that should have come out from the Prime Minister's office in Israel. But instead, Joe Biden calls Bibi Netanyahu. Who apparently, the war ministry, all voted to retaliate. And then Joe Biden called and said, hey. We won't support you.

Tonight -- don't do it. Don't retaliate. That's what the White House is saying, and so Bibi changed his mind. Well, gee. Thanks for backing me into a corner. I mean, it might be a corner I like to be in. But that's not the way you deal with an ally, is it?

JASON: No. How they're dealing with this all across-the-board, is what you're not supposed to do. This attack happened because of the Biden administration's overall foreign policy in the Middle East.

GLENN: You think?

JASON: When you refuse to stand up to their proxy, Hamas. When you coddle them as they have, things like this happen. When you give billions of dollars back to Iran. When you try to go back into the JCPO, nuclear agreement with them. When you're doing everything possible, to say, let's play nice. Let's play nice. When you have refused to stand up to a bully, this is the type of crap that happens. And I'm not saying that we go off and militarily attack them. There is a formula for dealing with this.

It was actually working. The Abraham Accords are happening. When you abandon them. This is the kind of crap that happens.

GLENN: But when you're having the possibility of Trump getting back in, and quelling all of this. I just want to make it to, you know, January, in case he wins. If he doesn't win, I mean, we're just going to keep seeing more and more of this.

You're right. It is our policies. We are weak. We don't command any respect. And honestly, we're on the other side.

We're giving money to Iran. So our tax dollars went to Iran. And to Israel.

So you could feel good on April 15th today. You paid for both sides of this.

STU: What do you guys make of the really strange way this all unfolded.

It was like, hey! Drones are going to be there in a few hours. They're all coming.

GLENN: I think that is. That is -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Jason.

You would know more than I would.

I think that was the signal from Iran.

Hey. We're going to do this.

STU: Right.

GLENN: We're going to -- because otherwise, you surprise.

Hey, surprise!

But they let Israel.

STU: Israel did.

GLENN: Yeah. They telegraphed it. Let Israel know.

Prepare your people for this. And then we will stop.

And that gives -- that gives the Israelis an opportunity to say, okay.

Well, we stopped you. Don't do it again.

STU: Because their statement right after. Hey. By the way, that's the end of this.

Wait until you know. That's what we're doing.

The matter is settled.

JASON: Concluded.

STU: Yeah. They're trying to say to our people. Hey. We did something.

To Israel, hey, we told you it was coming. You blocked it all.

Let's just call it a draw. Now, Israel, of course, gets the win here. They wiped out important military officials, and people they really wanted to target in Syria.

And they stopped the entire attack from Iran.

I mean, it's a massive escalation. No way of denying that. Maybe there's a chance for us to avoid a real inflammation of our entire region.

GLENN: I think we did. I think we did.

STU: You think it's over? Netanyahu said, it's going back for years.

GLENN: It's going to go back to terror now. The missiles are over.

STU: I mean, Netanyahu said, he wants to basically go after Iran directly.

He believes they're doing all this --

GLENN: Wow, they are the head of the state. They are the problem.

STU: It's true.

JASON: It's all up to Israel's response now.

GLENN: So you don't believe. So you don't believe, they are finished. Because -- according to the White House. They're done.

JASON: I think that's what Israel is juggling right now. Because it was heavily telegraphed. Iran told Turkey they were going to do this attack. And Turkey transmitted it to us.

GLENN: Let me take a quick break. And then I want to come back. Because I want to lack at this from the Israeli point of view.

I'm in addition they're stopped.

But if I'm an Israeli, I'm like, go get them now.

They've just blown everything that they have most likely. Let's go get them, while they're weak. We can overthrow them.

RADIO

Why Megyn Kelly is “DISGUSTED” by New York’s Criminal Trump Trial

The hush money trial of Donald Trump has begun — the first criminal trial ever against a former president — and Megyn Kelly is “disgusted” by it. “The United States of America DOESN’T do this,” she tells Glenn. But will Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg actually throw Trump in jail? Megyn explains why she doesn’t believe so, but she also debates whether a criminal conviction will help or hurt Trump in the November election.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Megyn Kelly, welcome to the program.

How are you, Megyn?

MEGYN: Hi, Glenn. Good to see you. How are you doing?

GLENN: What's going to happen this time? Are they going to get him this time?

MEGYN: They're going to get him. And I don't know about you. You can kind of laugh at it. And kind of absurd. But now that it's -- I mean, the first criminal trial of Donald Trump has just begun. They're in the courtroom.

The witnesses will be called eventually, after they pick the jury.

And they're going to try to put this guy behind bars, potentially.

They're 100 percent taking their best shot at stopping him from winning this race. And it really, for me as a lawyer, it's been very sobering morning.

I'm just disgusted.

I cannot believe we're doing this.

I -- it's like -- it's like Princess Diana behaving like a straight whore. That's what we're doing. The United States doesn't do this. And because we're in the hands of this scummy prosecutor. Multiple. It's not just Alvin Bragg, but he's the lead on this.

We've gone down this road, pretending a payment to a porn star, who is threatening to expose an affair, is a crime that warrants 34 counts. And they're going to make it as sleazy as humanly possible.

We're going to hear about David Pecker, who ran the national inquirer, owned AMI Media, and to bury negative stories on Trump and to inflate stories on Hillary.

Great. I can't wait to hear about Fusion GPS. Was Trump the only one trying to get dirt printed on his opponent.

That's what this jury will be left with. He worked with dirty magazines to get Hillary painted as fact. And unwell.

And without talking about how his campaign was spied on. She's been trying to get him impeached or thrown in jail, along with President Obama, for years.

Politics is disgusting and dirty and underhanded. And we wish it weren't so.

But guess what, it's so. Welcome to America.

And never before, have we put somebody on trial. Antics around it. Or a man on trial, for not screaming from the rooftops, I paid off a porn star, so she didn't humiliate me with my wife.

We're embarrassing ourselves with this trial. I feel appropriately disgusted.

GLENN: What is the difference between this trial, and the trial that didn't happen, because I only lied about sex? You know, to save my marriage, to make sure I didn't humiliate my wife. That's basically why Donald Trump perjured himself. Or not Donald Trump. Bill Clinton perjured himself, and nothing happened there. Everybody just walked away. What's the difference between these two?

MEGYN: One is a Democrat. One is a Republican.

GLENN: That's what I thought. That's what I thought.

MEGYN: Yeah, if you're a Democrat, you can lie. Ask Fani Wilis, ask Nathan Wade. Fine. You can lie on the stand, under oath. Like Bill Clinton did.

It's okay. It's just -- oh, wait. That's what Trump was doing too, allegedly.

That's -- wait. He was lying to cover up an affair. In only one lane does it become a felony.
And just not to get too deep in the weeds, Glenn, but let's not forget what really is happening here is a misdemeanor bookkeeping snafu or error or just statement, that the statute of limitations has run on. They reinvigorated a dead claim, by saying, well, it was made to cover up an underlying felony, which was a campaign finance violation.

You made $130,000 donation, quote, unquote, to your own campaign by paying off Stormy Daniels to win an election.

Well, guess what, that's not a campaign finance violation. The only way you get the kind of campaign finance violation, is get the payment, who could only have been made for one purpose, and that is to help your campaign.

Well, guess what, again, hush payments have been made by men to shut women up since the dawn of time. It doesn't have to be to save one's campaign. And that is the relative legal test expect Alvin brag should know. It's the reason the feds were not interested in pursuing this claim against Donald Trump.

GLENN: Correct. So is it just a corrupt judge that is making all the -- because the judge should look at that and said, no. You can't do this?

MEGYN: Yeah. Yes. I mean, it's not just. Because we have Mr. Bragg. But, yeah. The judge say serious problem.

A nonpartisan judge would you have thrown this out in the papers. Pretty easily.

And I do believe there's a very good chance, this will ultimately, no matter what happens with the area. Get thrown out on appeal.

Like most of the prosecutions against Trump. Not the obstruction case. But the J6 case could get thrown out soon, actually. The Supreme Court throws out the obstruction charges. Other cases involve J6 defendants not Trump.

If the Supreme Court does anything on presidential immunity. And then if he loses that J6 case. If there's a trial. I think it can get thrown out on appeal.

But he has to go through the humiliation.

We -- we -- America have to go through the humiliation of this criminal trial first.

We just saw our former president dragged into a criminal courtroom today.

And in typical Trumpian fashion, he said, I'm proud to be here. I'm very proud to be here.

That's smart. Trump is smart. He always does it. Positive spin for anything that happens to him. Let's be honest. This is not a proud moment.

Not for him. Not for us.

GLENN: Not for his family.

MEGYN: I'm ashamed of us for doing this.

GLENN: So what do you say about Donald Trump, this is, you know, something that, you know, we would be disgusted by, if it was something that was happening on the other side? Bill Clinton comes to mind. That we as conservatives, would say, this guy, he shouldn't be doing this as president. But in the Clinton case, it was illegal. He perjured himself. But there -- there really isn't anything illegal here. And if it was, it's past the statute of limitations.

MEGYN: There's a difference between those two cases. Let me tell you, Glenn. No one is allowed to lie under oath. It's a felony. It's a felony. It's perjury.

GLENN: Correct.

MEGYN: And a lawyer really isn't allowed to lie under oath. You have additional duties of candor to a court, before they admit you into the bar. You swear not to do things like that. So there are additional obligations on a lawyer, which Clinton was.

And on top of that, there are additional obligations as president. He violated them all. He committed a felony. Donald Trump made a bookkeeping misstatement. That's what he did. And for that, he's being hauled into court.

There's just no comparison between the legal scent -- and, look, I don't have any doubt, Trump will be convicted.

And to be honest, I don't have any doubt that Trump did this. I'm not -- I don't really doubt, that Trump didn't write down the hush money, to Stormy Daniels. Porn star. Who is threatening to go to my wife and the media about an affair, I may have had. He probably did do that.

GLENN: Right. Well, there was another one he paid off, that it wasn't true.

So I mean we don't know. Right?

MEGYN: The doorman? Yeah. Well, that's another piece of the AMI media piece of this case, which hasn't gotten much attention. But it's going to, when I think you hear, David Pecker will take the stand. The guy who ran, and I owned it. He will take a stand. And say, yeah. We caught and killed stories, including from this Karen McDougal who was the 1998 playmate of the year, who allegedly had an affair with Trump.

And also took a payout from AMI, to write health columns, instead of take the story to a publication that would run with it. This is what the allegation is, that if you're a friend with Pecker, like Trump was, you could get this kind of thing done for you.

And that's what he was doing for Trump. And we will have with this testimony, to that effect. And that's -- okay.

Is anyone shocked, that Trump didn't want all his affairs come out? I don't care. I'm sure he has had affairs. I'm sure, you know what, I'm sure Obama did too. The sainted Obama. And I'm sure Bill Clinton did. And the only reason the Clinton thing became a story is because Linda Tripp cited it -- and go public with the story. Neither pair of the lovers wanted that public.

Linda Tripp brought it public, and then Bill Clinton, rather than being a man and owning up to it, lied under oath. We're back to that problem.

But this is just -- we shouldn't be knowing about any of this. We shouldn't be humiliating ourselves, and getting neck deep into the gory details of it. But the Democrats are going to be awash in -- in seedy Trump affair details, for the next six weeks.

And it's anything, but accidental.

GLENN: How do you think this plays with the American people?

MEGYN: I think they will be disgusted like him.

But unfortunately, I think the very group Trump is struggling with, women, former Republicans, in the suburbs, like where I live. They're not going to like this. You know, because most of our husbands don't cheat on us with porn stars and playmates of the years. And --

GLENN: Well, I would hope -- I would hope that it doesn't just -- we don't. Yeah. We're all cheating. But not necessarily with porn stars. And play boys.

STU: There's also so many playmates of the year. They would be way too busy if everybody were cheating.

GLENN: Yeah. Way too busy. I don't think most husbands cheat on their wives.

MEGYN: I don't think they do. So they're not going to like this. You can't forget MAGA. Those guys who are out in front of the White House now, amazing.

The pro-Trump guys with all their pro-Trump gear. And they're like the anti-Trump guys. Did you see the guy with the flute?

He hates Trump! Like liar. Narcissist. Felon. And then he's playing the lovely flute. Saying God bless America.

Anyway, the hard-core MAGA, they're not going to care. We all know. Nothing is going to change their mind. And most Republicans are on Team Trump, and realize it's a political persecution.

But there is a group of independents now, center right independents. Who used to be Republicans. Who don't like Trump. And it would be helpful to the Republican Party and to Trump. If those people could be more disgusted with Biden than with Trump.

GLENN: Right.

MEGYN: And they might yet be. And I don't mean the conviction. The conviction won't help either.

Six weeks of Trump is a shitty husband. That won't help.

GLENN: Remember.

STU: Broadcast.

GLENN: Broadcast. That's all right. That's all right.

So, Megyn, does he go to jail? You said he will be convicted. Does he go to jail? And what would that mean? How much time would he be facing on this?

MEGYN: He's not going to jail on this case. He's not.

But you have lunatics like Andrew Weissmann, who honestly, he's not a -- like, this guy has done a very legitimate legal resume. I realize he left the FBI and all that.

But he was general council of the FBI, was a US attorney, and he's out there saying nonsense like, well, Trump is a recidivist. A recidivist is someone who continues to commit crime after he's served time or been convicted. You know, like you can't stop yourself from selling the heroin.

That's not Trump! So it is true, that there's some potential for jail time, if this judge somehow turns him into a repeat offender because he is facing three other criminal trials.

That's not happening. So I don't think he will go to jail for this one. I think it will be a matter of fines. But if -- that doesn't change much. I mean, jail time would be far, far worse.

But they still have their conviction.

And the thing is, guys, half of independents and still one-third of the Republicans, are saying they like Trump. But they can't vote for a convicted felon.

And I had this conviction -- I think it was with you guys, Stu. You and Dave Marcus were on my show this week. What if they mean it.

I know we don't think they mean it. What if they do mean it.

I look at this. Huh. What if we're wrong?

What if we're downplaying this, like, everyone knows this is BS, but we're wrong? When we misread the polls. And we do often. Because who the heck knows what to believe on polls anymore.

GLENN: Yep.

MEGYN: We get burned.

And so today really could be day one, in Trump losing this election. It could be.

GLENN: My gosh.

MEGYN: I don't think it will be.

But I recognize the danger of what they're doing here. And, of course, we all know, that's why they're doing it.

GLENN: I was hoping that it would backfire on them. I think it has to some degree.

I don't know when you add the actual felony. You know, to this.

MEGYN: That's the thing. That's the question.

Is the backfire bounce, already baked in.

GLENN: Hmm.

MEGYN: Right?

Have they already gotten all the bounce there is to get, from the outrage, over resetting norms that have been in place for almost 250 years.

And that, of course, would be the Democrat's plan, to boost him in the primaries.

He'll get whatever bounce he gets in the backlash.

And then it waned over the course of what they hoped would be four criminal trials. Now it looks like just this one.

But this is their best shot. Six weeks. Disgusting man. Horrid husband. And now convicted felony.

They don't need to hurt him much. You know, Joe Biden only one by 45,000 votes. They don't need to hurt him much.

GLENN: I know.

Megyn Kelly, host of the Megyn Kelly Show. Follows this program on SiriusXM. As always, Megyn, good to talk to you. Thank you.

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