GLENN

How a Former Russian Spy Fell in Love With America

Jack Barsky, former Russian spy who ran from both the FBI and KGB in the 1980s, joined Glenn in studio Thursday to discuss his new book Deep Undercover: My Secret Life and Tangled Allegiances as a KGB Spy in America. Barsky included details about his incredible life as a spy inside the United States, including what happened when he received the secret signal to return to Russia --- and why he ignored it.

Listen to these segments from The Glenn Beck Program:

GLENN: Jack, it is a thrill to meet you. Just a thrill.

JACK: The thrill is mine.

GLENN: So you have been living in the United States, since when?

JACK: Since 1978.

GLENN: Okay. And you were an undercover -- you were sent here to the United States to pose as an American.

JACK: Correct.

GLENN: And you worked in what industry? Because you're a chemist.

JACK: Yeah, I studied chemistry. But I never used any of that. You know, I taught chemistry and math for about a year as an assistant professor in Germany. And then I signed with the KGB. And my chemistry knowledge was gone. I never used it.

GLENN: Yeah. And you came here to do, what?

JACK: Well, to pretty much help destroy the United States. It didn't quite work that way.

GLENN: Right. Yeah. And I want to come back to this. I'm so glad we have two hours. But let me jump ahead a bit to 1988. You're walking down into the subway. And you see on the handle a splash of red paint.

JACK: Yeah, there was a pre-defined signal spot that was on my way to work, which I found and described to my -- the center, where they could put a signal. And that day was a great time, December morning. You know, I'm going off to work half asleep. And there's that red dot, the size of a fist. That was a clear signal. It was a danger signal. This was the most urgent signal that I could have ever read. And that meant, get out.

GLENN: It meant they're on to you.

JACK: That meant, get out. It's an emergency. Don't ask any questions. Just go -- don't go any place else. Get your reserve documents and make a beeline to Canada. And from there, we'll take you home. That was the plan.

STU: And you have to worry that they would -- they hopefully don't unrelated paint the wall red.

GLENN: Right.

JACK: It wasn't a wall. It was one of those -- you know, an elevated subway.

STU: Oh, okay.

JACK: Supporting beams. Steel beams.

STU: Okay.

GLENN: So when you saw that, your heart --

JACK: You're good. You're actually -- you're good material for working in the field.

GLENN: Your heart -- your heart must have leapt into your throat.

JACK: You know, I -- that's a question that I get a lot. For certain situations that I was in. And actually, it never happened like that. You know, what overcame me in situations like that, similarly to when I first entered the country, certain psychological numbness. All right? I became sort of a robot. And at that point, the robot made a decision. I'm not doing it. And I went on to work.

And funny thing is nobody noticed. Nobody noticed that something was wrong with me. Neither my wife at home nor the colleagues. And it was for three months afterwards when I was like -- I had some concern that somebody might be after me. Nobody ever noticed. So it's what I call numbness. I can't explain it.

GLENN: Did the KGB then contact you and then like, dude?

JACK: Yes.

STU: I doubt they said that.

JACK: The dude thing happened. And this is one of the moments that I can relive in my memory. So I'm standing on the subway platform, very close to where the first car would come in. And there were about a couple of dozen people on the platform. It was still -- it was another morning -- early morning. And this -- this figure comes from the right in a dark coat. And pretty short guy. And he whispered so it would be audible to only me that you got to come home, or else you're dead.

That was another moment where numbness overcame me.

GLENN: What did you say?

JACK: Nothing. He walked away. That was it.

JEFFY: Oh, you didn't push him in front of the subway or --

PAT: And was the threat that they were going to kill you, the KGB? Or was --

 

JACK: Well, think about -- you know, this was spoken with a pretty heavy accent. So this could have easily also been sort of, you know, dead meaning that your cover is blown. Right? You know, you're dead.

So you can interpret it either way.

JEFFY: Either way.

JACK: You have to take -- I had to take seriously the real threat because even then I knew the KGB was coming after folks, after defectors.

However, I've been told by somebody who should know -- I met him about six weeks ago, Mr. Oleg Kalugin, who was the head of counterintelligence for the KGB -- he now lives in the United States. And he stated that they never did -- they never -- they never killed anybody on the United States territory.

So take it for what it is. You know, we will never know.

GLENN: I don't believe that. But do you have ever watch the TV show -- I don't want to get into this, but do you ever watch the TV show The Americans?

JACK: I do. Because, you know, I'm friends with the producers now.

JEFFY: I bet.

GLENN: Right. I was wondering, have you consulted or if you thought that was pretty --

JACK: No. You know, they should have me as a consultant because I was on the set and I found a bunch of things that were -- they're very much focused on being authentic.

GLENN: Oh, yeah.

JACK: I mean, and they're going through great lengths to find the right cars, the right buses.

GLENN: Yeah, yeah. It's quite amazing.

JACK: And the decorations on the set. But I found a few things that were wrong just by...

(chuckling)

GLENN: Yeah.

JACK: But, yeah, it's -- it's a very entertaining show. But with regard to intelligence work -- they know it -- it's -- it's all nonsense.

(laughter)

STU: This is not a way to get hired, you realize that.

JACK: No, they know it. They know it. It's entertainment.

JEFFY: Yeah, it's got to be a show.

STU: Okay.

JACK: But let me tell you one thing, what they are doing really well is how they cover the psychology of being undercover.

There's a -- there was a possibility at one point that I would actually -- that they would have sent me to the US with a wife.

GLENN: Because they arranged a wife for you in Germany, right?

JACK: No, they didn't arrange it. You know, they allowed me to get married to the one that I fell in love with. They -- they screened her. And she was, quote, unquote, clean. And there was some sort of actually sending her over here with me.

GLENN: Knowingly. Her knowingly being involved?

JACK: Knowingly. Except she psychologically, she was not capable of handling that kind of pressure. So they kept us separate.

But, anyway, getting back to The Americans, this is the best part of their show is how --

GLENN: The situation.

JACK: -- how those folks deal with being in another country, becoming another person. And God forbid, now you have children.

GLENN: Right.

JACK: One of my favorite episodes is when the kid is bringing the pastor to dinner.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you grew up that way. As I read your book and as I know your story, you know, you grew up -- and in The Americans, they keep going back to what their life was like back in Russia.

And a couple thoughts come up on like, why wouldn't you come here and just see the plenty and go, man, I'm on the wrong side? You grew up in a time in Germany when it was being rebuilt. And the underwear that you wore for a long time was actually parachute silk, right?

JACK: Yeah, because there wasn't much of anything that could be bought. And so you had to really -- you know, you had to scramble. But, you know, when you're talking about The Americans and going back to where you came from, ideology, as it's fed to you, from childhood on, is a very, very strong foundation.

GLENN: Because that's what happened to you. Just like in The Americans.

JACK: That's exactly right.

GLENN: Your family said, Christianity is fairytale.

JACK: That's right. I mean, not the family -- the entire society, the school systems, the teachers, friends. Everybody. Christianity wasn't even mentioned. I mean, we had Christmas, and there was no Christ in Christmas.

We didn't -- you know, I opened a Bible once because I found one, and I read it from, you know, Genesis chapter one -- you know, that's not how you should read the Bible as a child.

GLENN: Right.

JACK: But the bottom line is -- so people ask me that question all the time. So when you came over here and you saw all this wealth, didn't that make you waver? Uh-uh. Not at all.

As I said, and that applies to any kind of ideology. If you're being fed a certain belief system from childhood on, it sticks with you. It's very difficult to overcome. And, as a matter of fact, I have some good friends back in Germany, with whom I reconnected. They got screwed over by East Germany, one way or another, and they're still communist. It's very difficult to shed what you're being fed.

PAT: Living here though, did you eventually gain some like sympathy to America? Did you fall in love with America?

GLENN: Yeah, when did that pivot happen with you? Why did you decided -- when you saw that red dot -- I'm not leaving?

JACK: Well, that was not because of the country. That was because of Chelsea my daughter, who is now 29 years old. She was 18 at the time.

And that was for the first time -- you know, I don't want to go back. My book is actually, if I want -- if I have to describe it in very few words, it's a love story.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

JACK: It's about love denied. It's about not being able to love the right way.

GLENN: Yeah. Having two families and being torn apart. You had one in Germany and one here.

JACK: Right. But in this situation, this was the first time that I felt the pull of unconditional love. And as you -- I bet you guys know that, that is stronger than anything else.

GLENN: Oh, yeah.

JACK: And so, you know, it sounds like -- trite: Love conquers all. But this one did.

GLENN: In The Americans, you see that -- what's it called? Control. Not control. What's the --

JACK: Oh, the center?

GLENN: The center.

JACK: Control.

GLENN: Yeah, yeah, no. That's Get Smart.

(laughter)

PAT: Which is really accurate.

GLENN: Right.

PAT: Unlike The Americans. Get Smart was totally accurate.

GLENN: Right. Right. The center starts to get concerned because of the kids.

JACK: Yeah.

GLENN: They know that now that the kids -- the kids are becoming American. And it's not easy to rip them back to Russia. And they're starting to think and know that that could change the agents.

JACK: But there's also this other train of thought, which was actually real, not as far as I'm concerned, but I've heard folks talk about it, to, you know, create this second generation of undercover agents that are even more deeply buried, that could one day become the Manchurian candidate. Right?

GLENN: Yeah. Right.

JACK: Those dreams were dreamed by certain KGB folks.

GLENN: You think it happened?

PAT: And we had that in Barack Obama.

(laughter)

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Are Epstein's "Blackmail Videos" Being Used for Leverage RIGHT NOW?

What was Jeffrey Epstein's operation all about. If he was at the center of a massive blackmail operation to compromise those in positions of power, who is in possession of that information now? Glenn Beck and ATF Whistleblower John Dodson analyze the details of this situation and give their thoughts on what is the most likely reality surrounding Epstein.

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with ATF Whistleblower John Dodson HERE

TV

WARNING: How America Elects a Socialist President in 2028 | Glenn TV | Ep 444

The rise of Zohran Mamdani, the 33-year-old socialist who just won the Democratic primary for mayor, is not just a political earthquake shaking New York City — it’s a warning for the rest of America. Backed by Bernie Sanders, AOC, and the Democratic Socialists of America, Mamdani promises free everything, to tax the rich, and to dismantle capitalism. There’s nothing new about this tired strategy, but the media is propping him up as a new political genius. And with Democrat leaders lining up behind him, it’s clear: This radicalism isn’t fringe anymore. It’s the Democratic Party’s future. Mamdani’s rise is part of a larger movement that’s rewriting America’s values. Glenn Beck explains how New York is the prototype for the Left’s socialist makeover of America. Victor Davis Hanson, senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Standford, gives a terrifying prediction on Mamdani’s mayoral race chances and warns the revolution is coming for mainstream Democrats. He also dives into MAGA’s frustration with the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein files.

RADIO

Did CLOUD SEEDING cause the Texas floods?

Did cloud seeding cause the 4th of July Texas floods? Rainmaker founder and CEO Augustus Doricko, who has been blamed for the flooding, joins Glenn Beck to make the case that it’s impossible for his July 2nd operation to have caused the disaster.

RADIO

Salena Zito reveals WHY Trump said “Fight! Fight! Fight!”

“I have a new purpose,” then-candidate Donald Trump told reporter Salena Zito after surviving the assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. Salena joins Glenn Beck to reveal what Trump told her about God, his purpose in life, and why he really said, “Fight! Fight! Fight!”, as she details in her new book, “Butler: The Untold Story of the Near Assassination of Donald Trump and the Fight for America's Heartland”.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Salena, congratulations on your book. It is so good.

Just started reading it. Or listening to it, last night.

And I wish you would have -- I wish you would have read it. But, you know, the lady you have reading it is really good.

I just enjoy the way you tell stories.

The writing of this is the best explanation on who Trump supporters are. That I think I've ever read, from anybody.

It's really good.

And the description of your experience there at the edge of the stage with Donald Trump is pretty remarkable as well. Welcome to the program.

SALENA: Thank you, Glenn. Thank you so much for having me.

You know, I was thinking about this, as I was ready to come on. You and I have been along for this ride forever. For what?

Since 2006? 2005?

Like 20 years, right?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

SALENA: And I've been chronicling the American people for probably ten more years, before that. And it's really remarkable to me, as watching how this coalition has grown. Right?

And watching how people have the -- have become more aspirational.

And that's -- and that is what the conservative populist coalition is, right?

It is the aspirations of many, but the celebration of the individual.

And chronicling them, yeah. Has been -- has been, a great honor.

GLENN: You know, I was thinking about this yesterday, when -- when Elon Musk said he was starting another party.

And somebody asked me, well, isn't he doing what the Tea Party tried to do?

No. The Tea Party was not going to start a new party.

It was to -- you know, it was to coerce and convince the Republican Party to do the right thing. And it worked in many ways. It didn't accomplish what we hoped.

But it did accomplish a lot of things.

Donald Trump is a result of the Tea Party.

I truly believe that. And a lot of the people that were -- right?

Were with Donald Trump, are the people that were with the Tea Party.


SALENA: That's absolutely right.

So that was the inception.

So American politics has always had movements, that have been just outside of a party. Or within a party.

That galvanize and broaden the coalition. Right? They don't take away. Or walk away, and become another party.

If anything, if there is a third party out there, it's almost a Republican Party.

Because it has changed in so many viable and meaningful ways. And the Tea Party didn't go away. It strengthened and broadened the Republican Party. Because these weren't just Republicans that became part of this party.

It was independents. It was Democrats.

And just unhappy with the establishment Republicans. And unhappy with Democrats.

And that -- that movement is what we -- what I see today.

What I see every day. What I saw that day, in butler, when I showed I happen at that rally.

As I do, so many rallies, you know, throughout my career. And that one was riveting and changed everything.

GLENN: You made a great case in the opening chapter. You talk about how things were going for Donald Trump.

And how this moment really did change everything for Donald Trump.

Changed the trajectory, changed the mood.

I mean, Elon Musk was not on the Trump train, until this.

SALENA: Yeah.

GLENN: Moment. What do I -- what changed? How -- how did that work?

And -- and I contend, that we would have much more profound change, had the media actually done their job and reported this the way it really was. Pragmatism

SALENA: You know, and people will find this in the book. I'm laying on the ground with an agent on top of me.

I'm 4 feet away from the president.

And there's -- there's notices coming up on my phone. Saying, he was hit by broken glass.

And to this take, that remains part of this sibling culture, in American politics.

Because reporters were -- were so anxious to -- to right what they believed happened.

As opposed to what happened.

And it's been a continual frustration of mine, as a reporter, who is on the ground, all the time.

And I'll tell you, what changed in that moment.

And I say a nuance, and I believe nuance is dead in American journalism.

But it was a nuance and it was a powerful conversation, that I had with President Trump, the next day. He called me the next morning.

But it's a powerful conversation I had with him, just two weeks ago.

When he made this decision to say, fight, fight, fight.

People have put in their heads, why they think he said it. But he told me why he said that. And he said, Salena, in that moment, I was not Donald Trump the man. I was a former president. I was quite possibly going to be president again.

And I had an obligation to the country, and to the office that I have served in, to project strength. To project resolve.

To project that we will not be defeated.

And it's sort of like a symbolic eagle, that is always -- you know, that symbol that we look at, when we think about our country.

He said, that's why I said that. I didn't want the people behind me panicking. I didn't want the people watching, panicking.

I had to show strength. And it's that nuance -- that I think people really picked up on.

And galvanized people.

GLENN: So he told me, when he was laying down on the stage.

And you can hear him. Let me get up. Let me get up.

I've got to get up.

He told me, as I was laying on the stage. I asked him, what were you thinking? What was going through your head? Now, Salena, I don't know about you.

But with me. It would be like, how do I get off the stage? My first was survival.

He said, what was going on through his mind was, you're not pathetic. This is pathetic.

You're not afraid. Get up.

Get up.

And so is that what informed his fight, fight, fight, of that by the time that he's standing up, he's thinking, I'm a symbol? Or do you think he was thinking, I'm a symbol, this looks pathetic. It makes you look weak.

Stand up. How do you think that actually happened?

SALENA: He thinks, and we just talked about this weeks ago. He -- you know, and this is something that he's really thought about.

Right? You know, he's gone over and over and over. And also, purpose and God. Right? These are things that have lingered with him.

You know, he -- he thought, yes.

He did think, it was pathetic that he was on the ground. But he wasn't thinking about, I'm Donald Trump. It's pathetic.

He's thinking, my country is symbolically on the ground. I need to get up, and I need to show that my country is strong.

That our country is resolute.

And I need people to see that.

We can't go on looking like pathetic.

Right?

And I think that then goes to that image of Biden.

GLENN: You have been with so many presidents.

How many presidents do you think that you've personally been with, would have thought that and reacted that way?

SALENA: Probably only Reagan. Reagan would have. Reagan probably would have thought that.

And if you remember how he was out like standing outside.

You know, waving out the window. Right?

After he was shot.

GLENN: At the hospital, right.

SALENA: Had he not been knocked out, unconscious, you know, he probably would have done the same thing.

Because he was someone who deeply believed in American exceptionalism.

And American exceptionalism does not go lay on the ground.

GLENN: And the symbol.

Right. The symbol of the presidency.

SALENA: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that affects him today.

GLENN: So let me go back to God.

Because you talked to him the next day. And your book Butler.

He calls you up.

I love the fact that your parents would be ashamed of you. On what you said to him.

The language you used. That you just have to read the book.

It's just a great part.

But he calls you the next morning. And wants to know if you're okay.

And you -- you then start talking to him, about God.

And I was -- I was thinking about this, as I was listening to it. You know, Lincoln said, I wasn't -- I wasn't a Christian.

Even though, he was.

I wasn't a Christian, when I was elected. I wasn't a Christian when my son died.

I became a Christian at Gettysburg.

Is -- is -- I mean, I believe Donald Trump always believes in God, et cetera, et cetera.

Do you think there was a real profound change at Butler with him?


SALENA: Absolutely. You know, he called me seven times that day. Seven times, the take after seven.

GLENN: Crazy.

SALENA: Talked about. And I think he was looking for someone that he knew, that was there. And to try to sort it out.

Right? And I let him do most of the talking. I didn't pressure him.

At all. I believed that he was having -- you know, he was struggling. And he needed to just talk. And I believed my purpose was to listen.

Right? I know other reporters would have handled it differently. And that's okay. That's not the kind of reporter that I am.

And I myself was having my own like, why didn't I die?

Right?

Because it went right over my head.

And -- and so I -- he had the conversation about God.

He's funny. I thought it was the biggest mosquito in the world that hit me.

But he had talked profoundly about purpose. You know, and God.

And how God was in that moment.

It --

GLENN: I love the way you -- in the book, I love the way you said that as he's kind of working it out in his own he head.

He was like, you know, I -- I -- I always knew that there was some sort of, you know -- that God was present.

He said, but now that this has happened.

I look back at all of the trials.

All of the tribulations. Literally, the trials.

All of the things that have happened. And he's like, I realized God was there the whole time.

SALENA: Yes. He does. And it's fascinating to have been that witness to history, to have those conversations with him. Because I'm telling you. And y'all know, I can talk. I didn't say much of anything.

I just -- I just listened. I felt that was my purpose, in that moment.

To give him that space, to work it out.

I'm someone that is, you know, believes in God.

I'm Catholic. I followed my faith.

And -- and so, I thought, well, this is why God put me here. Right?

And to -- to have that -- to hear him talk about purpose, to hear him say, Salena. Why did I put a chart down?

I'm like, sir. I don't know. I thought you were Ross Perot for a second.

He never has a chart. And he laughed. And then he said, why did I put that chart down?

By that term, I never turned my head away from people at the rally. That's true.

That relationship is very transactional. It's very -- they feed off of each other.

It's a very emotive moment when you attend a rally. Because he has a way of talking at a rally. That you believe that you are seeing.

And he said, and I never turn my head away.

I never turn my head away.

Why did I turn my head away?

I don't remember consciously thinking about turning my head away. And then he says to me, that was God, wasn't it?

Yes, sir. It was. It was God.

And he said, that's -- that's why I have a new purpose.

And so, Glenn. I think it's important, when you look at the breadth of what has happened, since he was sworn in.

You see that purpose, every day.

He doesn't let up.

He continues going.

And it brings back to the beginning of the book.

Where you find out, that there was another president that was shot at in Butler.

And that was George Washington. And how different the country would have been, had he died in that moment.

And now think about how different the country would be, had President Trump died in that moment. There would be --

GLENN: We're talking to -- we're talking to Salena Zito. About her new book called Butler. The assassination attempt on President Trump. And it is riveting.

And, you know, it is so good. I wish the press would read it. Because it really explains who we are, who Trump supporters are. Who are, you know, red staters. It is so good at that. She's the best at that.