BLOGMay 19, 2017

Bill O'Reilly: One Thing Separated Roger Ailes From Other Media Executives

Bill O'Reilly, former host of The O'Reilly Factor on Fox News, was one of the first people Roger Ailes hired at the fledgling network. He joined Glenn's radio program on Friday to share his thoughts about his former boss. Ailes passed away on Thursday at the age of 77.

Additionally, O'Reilly shared details about his recent opinion piece for USA Today, in which he said the following about the iconic news executive:

To say that Roger Ailes led a full life is a massive understatement. A force of nature with an agenda, RA, as fellow executives called him, was a man on a mission.

Both Glenn and O'Reilly gave perspectives on their former boss, with O'Reilly detailing, in his opinion, the one characteristic that set Ailes apart from other news executives.

Enjoy this complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: This is going to be a fascinating hour. We are so fortunate to have joining us on Fridays Mr. Bill O'Reilly. One of the steady voices of reason for two decades on Fox News. And was one of the first hires at Fox News from Roger Ailes, who passed away yesterday. We're going to talk to him about Roger Ailes, James Comey, the president, the world at large, and have him try to help make some sense out of this week in review. We begin there with Bill O'Reilly right now.

Mr. Bill O'Reilly, how are you, sir.

BILL: Good. Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it.

GLENN: You are so warm and friendly and personable, I don't know if you catch that every time. But I can feel the --

PAT: It oozes out of the phone.

GLENN: You say very little to me. Just at that opening, you feel he loves me and loves being here.

BILL: Well, I rehearsed that all morning. Did I do okay?

GLENN: Oh, yeah. It sounded so sincere.

PAT: The depth and the warmth.

GLENN: Anyway, Bill, I thought of you a lot yesterday.

PAT: Are we in a wind tunnel.

GLENN: Or an oxygen tent? What the hell is happening? What the hell is happening?

BILL: I am outside. Can you hear me clearly?

GLENN: Oh, god. We're going to do a professional radio program.

BILL: I understand, but I'm a child of nature.

GLENN: Yeah, I know. You're, again, I feel that exuding from you.

So yesterday I thought of you, Bill, because of Roger Ailes, and you probably knew him better than anybody at Fox. And he didn't reveal all sides of himself to everyone. He's one of the most complex men I have ever met. He is in some ways an icon to me, an idol to me in some ways. And honestly, personally, one of the biggest disappointments in my life at the same time, and I have a -- it's weird. I've never liked someone as much as I like Roger Ailes and then despised some of the things that he did at the same time.

BILL: Well, I can't speak to your situation because for two reasons, number one, you're my friend. And number two, he was my friend.

GLENN: Right.

BILL: And I as you know didn't get involved in that when you were at Fox News, only to the extent that I told him quite clearly that you were very beneficial to the network, and then I -- you and I partnered up to do a tour together.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: So he knew that I was in your corner. So I don't know any more than that. And when you left, I obviously was disappointed because I didn't think it was good for the network at all. But, you know, you're you, and he was him.

GLENN: Yeah, I'm not even talking about that, Bill. I just -- you know that Roger when he wanted to be, would be ruthless. And I don't want to get into all the charges back and forth of what happened to other people because that's going to happen in court or, you know, none of us were there for that, so I don't even want to talk about that. I mean if Roger wanted to protect you or somebody else, you knew he would. He would be loyal, loyal, loyal.

BILL: Yes.

GLENN: But there was also the side of him that when he wanted his way, he could be the most ruthless man ever.

BILL: Well, I don't know about that, but he was certainly a businessman who operated in a world where what was good for him was going to happen. And so if you were going up against what was good for him, then there would be a conflict. And I understand that. And I had to deal with that too.

GLENN: I know.

BILL: That thing about Ailes. But you and I both know, and this is important, and I want people to read the USA today op-ed that I wrote about you and I both know that what television and radio is all about. It's about one thing. Money. And if you get in the way of money, you're going to get hammered, and you're going to die. If you can make them money, you'll prosper.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: That's what it's all about. So Ailes that was his basic business plan. I'm going to be successful. I'm going to crush the opposition. Not just beat them. I'm going to crush them. Okay? Because there were very, very strong psychological reasons why he hated the establishment, he felt that they were arrogant, and they were never fair to him and all of that.

But the one thing that separated him and everybody should know this, even if they don't have any motion invested in Fox News or Roger Ailes is that if you got into trouble, if he thought you were a loyal person, he would do anything to help you. And that is very different from most of the executives that work in radio.

GLENN: Very true. Very true.

Bill, what was it like at the beginning of Fox News? When you were there, I mean, you were one of the first hires, and he came to you, and you said in your USA today article today, your op-ed piece to him, you know, do you want to see a treatment of what I want to do? And he said, no, just tell the truth, take no prisoners, don't make any, you know -- no sacred cows, and don't screw it up.

BILL: Yeah, well, he knew me from "Inside Edition" where I had anchored that program for six years and made it a success after David Frost got fired after three weeks on the air. And Ailes is a business man, so he knew me. He knew that I turned a program around. He knew that I could do it. But I was surprised that -- because I had heard, well, he's this ideological guy and, you know, he wants it his way, and I was surprised he never told me, hey, I want you to do this or hammer this guy or be friendly to that guy. Never. He just wanted me to go and do it, and that's why we were successful.

GLENN: Roger Ailes is gone. He left Fox News. They started changing Fox News, obviously you are no longer with Fox News. I remember somebody said to me when I was there, so who's going to replace Roger Ailes? And I said I don't think anybody can replace Roger Ailes. But they certainly weren't grooming anybody. Bill Shine was probably the closest that could begin to think like Roger. But he never in his mind, I think left the roots that he had in Ohio. He could still think like somebody in the center of the country, which is nobody in New York City at an executive level is doing.

We've seen this --

BILL: No doubt.

GLENN: Go ahead. Comment on that.

BILL: Yeah, look, Roger was a child. He was one of the first baby boomers. Okay? He was a little bit before that, born in 1940. But he had that mentality. And his father was a tough guy and, you know, Roger was a working class, and he was a human philiac, so as a child, he had tough health issues, and he was a small guy, so I think he was a victim of bullying. He took all of that, and he said you know what? I'm going to show you. I'm going to show you, and I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're Richard Nixon or Ronald Reagan or if you're the head of GE, I'm going to show you. And I'm going to show you how it's done because I have a link, just as you have and I have with regular Americans, working Americans. I have that link. And that's what made him successful.

GLENN: You think that's what he saw in you? Because I think that's --

BILL: Oh, there's no doubt about it. No doubt about it. You know, he could have had all the stones and forests and, you know, all of these network people who were named after inanimate objects, he could have had them. He could have done that. He could have had pocket Hankies all over the place. British accents, Peter Jennings, clones. He could have done all of it. But he wanted regular people. So he hires Hannity. He hires a bunch of tough Irish guys who we knew would be brawlers. He hired you, and he put together the staff that he knew blue-collar people would identify with.

So, you know, he was a genius. But what he did wasn't genius, it was just out of the mainstream. And that's why Fox News became a $2.5 billion a year grossing bank. I mean, can you imagine that much money? And that's what happened.

GLENN: He was a genius. And what he did, I think, was genius. It was just out of the -- it was just actually in the mainstream but not the mainstream of media. You know as well as I know, Bill, that you could be confused by one of the most complex issues of health care and the bills and everything else. You would see Roger Ailes for two minutes, and he would boil it down off the top of his head in two lines, and you would go "That's freaking genius. I've never -- that's brilliant."

He could just --

BILL: Yeah, that came from his political background. He told me a story one time about Ronald Reagan, and I have this in my book. I have this exact story in the book. And Reagan was lost when he was running second time around, and he got hammered the first debate. So they brought Ailes in the second debate because the poll numbers are going down for Reagan, Reagan looked discombobulated, so here comes Ailes walking in. Okay? And he didn't know Reagan that well. And he sat Reagan down and looked him in the eye and said going to lose. The whole thing is going to blow up unless you start to wise up. And then Reagan was startled because who talked to Ronald Reagan that way when he was President of the United States? Nobody but, you know, you could see Ailes doing it. And then Ailes said here's what you're going to do. We're going to have three or four themes that we're going to -- that you're going to have to emphasize, and I'm going to give you two strike lines that when we know he's going to say certain things, you're going to go back at him. And one of them was I'm going to hold my opponent's age and inexperience against him. You remember that.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: So Ailes was a political guy, political consultant, and he basically brought that over to TV. And he didn't want pinheads on the air with, oh, well, I think we have to go back and look at the amendment. That gets you fired faster than anything. So his formula worked. Works to this day. They're still doing Roger Ailes on Fox News. The personnel has changed, so they're having a hard time. But they're still doing what he put into place.

GLENN: You know, you said that he didn't hire rocket science people. But I don't know if I've ever told you about my interview with him. The first time that I had met him, two or three times, and he had just said "Let's have a casual dinner. I just want to know you.

And then he said I would like to talk to you about joining Fox, and we had dinner together in some private room at a steakhouse in New York.

And the first question he asked me was "What did you think about the 1972 China trade deal?"

And I said "Roger, I've got to be honest. I don't know."

And then the next question was "What was the biggest accomplishment of the Eisenhower administration?"

And I looked at him and I said Roger, I have two ways to go here. I could either bluff and kind of make something up, or I could tell you the truth. I'm not up on that one either. And possibly end the interview right here, but I'm going to bank on not bluffing with you. I don't know.

He said really? And then he said nothing to me for ten long minutes as we ate.

BILL: Really? You ate your salads, huh?

GLENN: But he got up. Neither of us had salad. And we got up afterwards, and then he pushed me to the wall. Pushed me to the wall. I mean questioned my faith. Got in my face so much. And then I thought this is over. I lost 15 pounds of sweat, and I thought this is over. I'm never going to work at Fox. He stood up at the end and he said it is great to meet a man who actually knows what he knows, isn't afraid to say it, and isn't afraid to say what he doesn't know. Good for you.

And that was the end of the interview. It was a nightmare. A nightmare. He was wicked smart and knew exactly what he was looking for.

BILL: Yeah, and he carried that over, and that bluntness got him in trouble, as I wrote in the op-ed. You know, there's two ways to take it. The way you took it, and the way that some other people that hated him. And they --

GLENN: But, you know, there's a lot of people -- because I watched you closely because you have a reputation of being a hothead, and I never saw that. And I saw -- what I did see was Bill O'Reilly expects you to do your job and to do it with excellence because he's doing his job with excellence and not phoning it in. And if he doesn't screw it up, you don't screw it up. So the only time I saw people have a problem with you is when they were bluffing. And it was the same with Roger Ailes and the same with me. Don't bluff. Don't do it.

BILL: If you're going to run a successful enterprise in a ultra hypercompetitive situation, you have to demand excellence. You have to. It's like the military. If you're going to be one of the elite troops -- I mean, you can't allow people to slough off or give you 75 percent effort. So, you know -- but a lot of people don't like that and a lot of people don't want to be challenged and a lot of people don't want to be criticized. So therefore, Ailes made enemies after enemies after enemies plus conservative ideology alienated the press right off the jump, and they were out to get him. I mean, if you look at the clip file from the time Fox News started in 1996 to this very day, the negative Fox News articles run 100 to one.

GLENN: All right. Bill O'Reilly at BillOreilly.com. We're going to continue our conversation. I want to ask him when we come back if -- MSNBC is beating Fox News for a week after Bill O'Reilly leaves. Does Fox News survive without Roger Ailes? Without Bill O'Reilly and others in possibly a new direction? We get that. Also, I want to talk about Trump, the week's he's had, Comey, and you can hear him every day on his podcast at BillOreilly.com.

[break]

GLENN: Bill, I've got about two minutes here, and I want to switch and go onto something about Trump. Something stunning happened that has never happened before. You leave cable news and Rachel Maddow is now number one person on cable news. And MSNBC won cable news for the week. What does that say about -- what's happening? I know you watch the ratings. Is this beginnings of fox actually having to really work hard to hold its place?

BILL: They have a problem. Fox News has a problem. There's no doubt about it. Whenever you lose key personnel in any industry, competitive industry, sports media, you better have a plan. And it doesn't look like FNC has a plan.

The Trump haters are going over to MSNBC and there's a lot of them. A lot of haters. So they're being bolstered by the problems the president is having. But by the Fox News side, you know, they made their decisions, they didn't have to make those decisions, and they didn't have a plan. You know, when you take a guy like me out of the line up, and I'm doing five, six million viewers a night, you better have a plan to replace that. Tucker Carlson is very talented. He's very good. But I don't see a plan.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

How to Find God in a Divided World | Max Lucado & Glenn Beck

Glenn Beck sits down with beloved pastor and author Max Lucado for a deep conversation about faith, humility, and finding unity in a divided world. Together, they reflect on the importance of principles over politics, why humility opens the door to true dialogue, and how centering life on God brings clarity and peace. Lucado shares stories of faith, the dangers of a “prosperity gospel,” and the powerful reminder that life is not about making a big deal of ourselves, but about making a big deal of God. This uplifting conversation will inspire you to re-center your life, strengthen your faith, and see how humility and love can transform even the most divided times.

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with Max Lucado HERE

RADIO

Bill O'Reilly predicts THIS will be Charlie Kirk's legacy

Bill O’Reilly joins Glenn Beck with a powerful prediction about Charlie Kirk’s legacy. Evil tried to destroy his movement, Bill says, but – as his new book, “Confronting Evil,” lays out – evil will just end up destroying itself once more…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Mr. Bill O'Reilly, welcome to the program, how are you, sir?

BILL: Good, Beck, thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. How have you been?

GLENN: Last week was really tough. I know it was tough for you and everybody else.

But, you know -- I haven't -- I haven't seen anything.

BILL: Family okay? All of that?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Family is okay. Family is okay.

BILL: Good question good. That's the most important thing.

GLENN: It is.

So, Bill, what do you make of this whole Charlie Kirk thing. What happened, and where are we headed?

BILL: So my analysis is different for everybody else, and those that know me for so long. About a year ago, I was looking for a topic -- it was a contract to do another book. And I said, you know what's happening in America, and around the world. Was a rise in evil. It takes a year to research and write these books.

And not since the 1930s, had I seen that happen, to this extent. And in the 1930s, of course, you would have Tojo and Hitler and Mussolini and Franco and all these guys. And it led to 100 million dead in World War II. The same thing, not to the extent.

But the same thing was --
GLENN: Yet.
BILL: -- bubbling in the world, and in the United States.

I decided to write a book. The book comes out last Tuesday. And on Wednesday, Putin lobs missiles into Poland.

Ultra dangerous.

And a few hours later, Charlie Kirk is assassinated.

And one of the interviewers said to me last week, your -- your book is haunting. Is haunting.

And I think that's extremely accurate. Because that's what evil does.

And in the United States, we have so many distractions. The social media.

People create around their own lives.

Sports. Whatever it may be. That we look away.

Now, Charlie Kirk was an interesting fellow. Because at a very young age, he was mature enough to understand that he wanted to take a stand in favor of traditional America and Judeo Christian philosophy.

He decided that he wanted to do that.

You know, and when I was 31 or whatever, I was lucky I wasn't in the penitentiary. And I believe you were in the penitentiary.
(laughter)
So he was light years ahead of us.

GLENN: Yes, he was.

BILL: And he put it into motion. All right? Now, most good people, even if you disagree with what Mr. Kirk says on occasion, you admire that. That's the spirit of America. That you have a belief system, that you go out and try to promote that belief system, for the greater good of the country. That's what it is.

That's what Charlie Kirk did.

And he lost his life.

By doing it!

So when you essentially break all of this down. You take the emotion away, all right?

Which I have to do, in my job. You see it as another victory for evil.

But it really isn't.

And this is the ongoing story.

This is the most important story. So when you read my book, Confronting Evil, you'll see that all of these heinous individuals, Putin's on the cover. Mao. Hitler.

Ayatollah Khomeini. And then there are 14 others inside the book. They all destroy themselves.

Evil always destroys itself. But it takes so many people with it. So this shooter destroyed his own family.

And -- and Donald Trump, I talked to him about it last week in Yankee stadium. And Trump is a much different guy than most people think.

GLENN: He is.

JASON: He destroyed his own mother and father and his two brothers.

That's what he did. In addition to the Kirk family!

So evil spreads. Now, if Americans pay attention and come to the conclusion that I just stated, it will be much more difficult for evil to operate openly.

And that's what I think is going to happen.

There's going to be a ferocious backlash against the progressive left in particular.

To stop it, and I believe that is what Mr. Kirk's legacy is going to be.

GLENN: I -- I agree with you on all of these fronts.

I wonder though, you know, it took three, or if you count JFK, four assassinations in the '60s, to confront the evil if you will.

Before people really woke up and said, enough is enough!

And then you have the big Jesus revolution after that.

Is -- I hate to say this. But is -- as far gone as we are, is one assassination enough to wake people up?

JOHN: Some people. Some people will never wake up.

They just don't want to live in the real world, Beck. And it's never been easier to do that with the social media and the phones and the computers.

And you're never going to get them back.

But you don't need them. So let's just be very realistic here on the Glenn Beck show.

Let's run it down.

The corporate media is finished.

In America. It's over.

And you will see that play out the next five years.

Because the corporate media invested so much of its credibility into hating Donald Trump.

And the hate is the key word.

You will find this interesting, Beck. For the first time in ten years, I've been invited to do a major thing on CBS, today.

I will do it GE today. With major Garrett.

GLENN: Wow.

BILL: Now, that only happened because Skydance bought CBS. And Skydance understands the brand CBS is over, and they will have to rehabilitate the whole thing. NBC has not come to that conclusion yet, but it will have to.

And ABC just does the weather. I mean, that's all they care about. Is it snowing in Montana? Okay? The cables are all finished. Even Fox.

Once Trump leaves the stage, there's nowhere for FNC to go. Because they've invested so much in Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

So the fact of the matter is, the corporate media is over in America. That takes a huge cudgel out of the hands of the progressive movement.

Because the progressive movement was dependent on the corporate media to advance its cause. That's going to end, Beck.

GLENN: Well, I would hope that you're right.

Let me ask you about --

BILL: When am I wrong?

When am I wrong?

You've known me for 55 years. When have I been wrong?

GLENN: Okay. All right. All right. We're not here to argue things like that.

So tell me about Skydance. Because isn't Skydance Chinese?

BILL: No! It's Ellison. Larry Ellison, the second richest guy in the world. He owns Lanai and Hawaii, the big tech guy and his son is running it.

GLENN: Yeah, okay.

I though Skydance. I thought that was -- you know them.

BILL: Yeah.

And they -- they're not ideological, but they were as appalled as most of us who pay attention at the deterioration of the network presentations.

So --

GLENN: You think that they could.

BILL: 60 Minutes used to be the gold standard.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

BILL: And it just -- it -- you know, you know, I don't know if you watch it anymore.

GLENN: I don't either.

So do you think they can actually turn CBS around, or is it just over?

BILL: I don't know. It's very hard to predict, because so many people now bail. I've got a daughter 26, and a son, 22.

They never, ever watched network television.

And you've got -- it's true. Right?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

They don't watch --

BILL: They're not going to watch The Voice. The dancing with this. The juggling with that. You know, I think they could do a much better job in their news presentations.

GLENN: Yeah. Right.

BILL: Because what they did, is banish people like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

Same voices, with huge followings.

Huge!

All right?

We couldn't get on there.

That's why Colbert got fired. Because Colbert wouldn't -- refused to put on any non-progressive voice, when they were talking about the country.

GLENN: I know.

BILL: Well, it's not -- I'm censoring it.

GLENN: Yeah, but it's not that he was fired because he wouldn't do that. He was fired because that led to horrible ratings. Horrible ratings.

BILL: Yes, it was his defiance.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: Fallon has terrible ratings and so does Kimmel. But Colbert was in your face, F you, to the people who were signing his paycheck.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: Look, evil can only exist if the mechanisms of power are behind it.

And that's when you read the front -- I take them one by one. And Putin is the most important chapter by far.

GLENN: Why?

BILL: Because Putin would use nuclear weapon.

He wouldn't. He's a psychopath.

And I'm -- on Thursday night, I got a call from the president's people saying, would I meet the president at Yankee stadium for the 9/11 game?

And I said, when a president calls and asks you to meet them, sure.

GLENN: I'll be there. What time?

BILL: It will take me three days to get into Yankee stadium, on Long Island. But I'll start now.

GLENN: Especially because the president is coming. But go ahead.

BILL: Anyway, that was a very, I think that Mr. Trump values my opinion. And it was -- we did talk about Putin.

And the change in Putin. And I had warned him, that Putin had changed from the first administration, where Trump controlled Putin to some extent.

Now he's out of control. Because that's what always happens.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: It happened with Hitler. It happened with Mao. It happened with the ayatollah. It happened with Stalin. Right now. They get worse and worse and worse and worse. And then they blow up.

And that's where Putin is! But he couldn't do any of that, without the assent of the Russian people. They are allowing him to do this, to kill women and children. A million Russian casualties for what! For what! Okay?

So that's why this book is just in the stratosphere. And I was thinking object, oh. Because people want to understand evil, finally. Finally.

They're taking a hard look at it, and the Charlie Kirk assassination was an impetus to do that.

GLENN: Yeah. And I think it's also an impetus to look at the good side.

I mean, I think Charlie was just not a neutral -- a neutral character. He was a force for good. And for God.

And I think that -- that combination is almost the Martin Luther King combination. Where you have a guy who is speaking up for civil rights.

But then also, speaking up for God. And speaking truth, Scripturally.

And I think that combination still, strangely, I wouldn't have predicted it. But strangely still works here in America, and I think it's changed everything.

Bill, it's always food to talk to you. Thank you so much for being on. I appreciate it.

It's Bill O'Reilly. The name of the book, you don't want to miss. Is confronting evil. And he takes all of these really, really bad guys on. One by one. And shows you, what happens if you don't do something about it. Confronting evil. Bill O'Reilly.

And you can find it at BillO'Reilly.com.

RADIO

Should people CELEBRATING Charlie Kirk’s death be fired?

There’s a big difference between firing someone, like a teacher, for believing children shouldn’t undergo trans surgery and firing a teacher who celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. Glenn Beck explains why the latter is NOT “cancel culture.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I got an email from somebody that says, Glenn, in the wake of Charlie's assassination, dozens of teachers, professors and professionals are being suspended or fired for mocking, or even celebrating Charlie Kirk's death.

Critics say conservatives are now being hypocritical because you oppose cancel culture. But is this the same as rose an losing her job over a crude joke. Or is it celebrating murder, and that's something more serious?

For many, this isn't about cancellation it's about trust. If a teacher is entrusted with children or a doctor entrusted with patients, publicly celebrates political violence, have they not yet disqualified themselves from those roles? Words matter. But cheering a death is an action. Is there any consequence for this? Yes. There is.

So let's have that conversation here for a second.

Is every -- is every speech controversy the same?

The answer to that is clearly no.

I mean, we've seen teachers and pastors and doctors and ordinary citizens lose their job now, just for saying they don't believe children under 18 should undergo transgender surgeries. Okay? Lost their job. Chased out.

That opinion, whether you agree or disagree is a moral and medical judgment.

And it is a matter of policy debate. It is speech in the public square.

I have a right to say, you're mutilating children. Okay. You have a right to say, no. We're not. This is the best practices. And then we can get into the silences of it. And we don't shout down the other side.

Okay? Now, on the other hand, you have Charlie Kirk's assassination. And we've seen teachers and professors go online and be celebrate.

Not criticize. Not argue policy. But celebrate that someone was murdered.

Some have gone so far and said, it's not a tragedy. It's a victory. Somebody else, another professor said, you reap what you sow.

Well, let me ask you: Are these two categories of free speech the same?

No! They're not.

Here's the difference. To say, I believe children should not be allowed to have gender surgeries, before 18. That is an attempt, right or wrong. It doesn't matter which side you are.

That is an attempt to protect life. Protect children. And guide society.

It's entering the debate about the role of medicine. The right of parents. And the boundaries of childhood. That's what that is about. To say Charlie Kirk's assassination is a good thing, that's not a debate. That's not even an idea. That's rejoicing in violence. It's glorifying death.

There's no place in a civil society for that kind of stuff. There's not. And it's a difference that actually matters.

You know, our Founders fought for free speech because they believed as Jefferson said, that air can be tolerated where truth is left free to combat it.

So I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, at all. I don't think you do either. I hope you don't. Otherwise, you should go back to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Error can be tolerated where truth is left to be free to combat it.

But when speech shifts from debating ideas to celebrating death, doesn't that cease to be the pursuit of truth and instead, just become a glorification of evil?

I know where I stand on that one. Where do you stand?

I mean, if you go back and you look at history, in colonial matter -- in colonial America, if you were to go against the parliament and against the king, those words were dangerous. They were called treason. But they were whys. They were arguments about liberty and taxation and the rights of man.

And the Founders risked their lives against the dictator to say those things.

Now, compare that to France in 1793.

You Thomas Paine, one of or -- one of our founder kind of. On the edges of our founders.

He thought that what was happening in France is exactly like the American Revolution.

Washington -- no. It wasn't.

There the crowds. They didn't gather to argue. Okay? They argued to cheer the guillotine they didn't want the battle of ideas.

They wanted blood. They wanted heads to roll.

And roll they did. You know, until the people who were screaming for the heads to roll, shouted for blood, found that their own heads were rolling.

Then they turned around on that one pretty quickly.

Think of Rome.

Cicero begged his countrymen to preserve the republic through reason, law, and debate. Then what happened?

The mob started cheering assassinations.

They rejoiced that enemies were slaughtered.

They were being fed to the lions.

And the republic fell into empire.

And liberty was lost!

Okay. So now let me bring this back to Charlie Kirk here for a second.

If there's a professor that says, I don't believe children should have surgeries before adulthood, is that cancel culture, when they're fired?

Yes! Yes, it is.

Because that is speech this pursuit of truth.

However imperfect, it is speech meant to protect children, not to harm them. You also cannot be fired for saying, I disagree with that.

If you are telling, I disagree with that. And I will do anything to shut you down including assassination! Well, then, that's a different story.

What I teacher says, I'm glad Charlie Kirk is dead, is that cancel culture, if they're fired?

Or is that just society saying, you know, I don't think I can trust my kid to -- to that guy.

Or that woman.

I know, that's not an enlightening mind.

Somebody who delights in political murder.

I don't want them around my children! Scripture weighs in here too.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. Matthew.

What does it reveal about the heart of a teacher who celebrates assassination?

To me, you go back to Scripture. Whoa unto them that call good evil -- evil good and good evil.

A society that will shrug on speech like this, say society that has lost its moral compass.

And I believe we still have a moral compass.

Now, our free speech law doesn't protect both. Absolutely. Under law. Absolutely.

Neither one of them should go to jail.

Neither should be silenced by the state.

But does trust survive both?

Can a parent trust their child to a teacher who is celebrating death?

I think no. I don't think a teacher can be trusted if they think that the children that it's right for children to see strippers in first grade!

I'm sorry. It's beyond reason. You should not be around my children!

But you shouldn't go to jail for that. Don't we, as a society have a right to demand virtue, in positions of authority?

Yes.

But the political class and honestly, the educational class, does everything they can to say, that doesn't matter.

But it does. And we're seeing it now. The line between cancel and culture, the -- the cancellation of people, and the accountability of people in our culture, it's not easy.

Except here. I think it is easy.

Cancel culture is about challenging the orthodoxy. Opinions about faith, morality, biology.
Accountability comes when speech reveals somebody's heart.

Accountability comes when you're like, you are a monster! You are celebrating violence. You're mocking life itself. One is an argument. The other is an abandonment of humanity. The Constitution, so you understand, protects both.

But we as a culture can decide, what kind of voices would shape our children? Heal our sick. Lead our communities?

I'm sorry, if you're in a position of trust, I think it's absolutely right for the culture to say, no!

No. You should not -- because this is not policy debate. This is celebrating death.

You know, our Founders gave us liberty.

And, you know, the big thing was, can you keep it?

Well, how do you keep it? Virtue. Virtue.

Liberty without virtue is suicide!

So if anybody is making this case to you, that this is cancel culture. I just want you to ask them this question.

Which do you want to defend?

Cancel culture that silences debate. Or a culture that still knows the difference between debating ideas and celebrating death.

Which one?

RADIO

Shocking train video: Passengers wait while woman bleeds out

Surveillance footage of the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska in Charlotte, NC, reveals that the other passengers on the train took a long time to help her. Glenn, Stu, and Jason debate whether they were right or wrong to do so.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: You know, I'm -- I'm torn on how I feel about the people on the train.

Because my first instinct is, they did nothing! They did nothing! Then my -- well, sit down and, you know -- you know, you're going to be judged. So be careful on judging others.

What would I have done? What would I want my wife to do in that situation?

STU: Yeah. Are those two different questions, by the way.

GLENN: Yeah, they are.

STU: I think they go far apart from each other. What would I want myself to do. I mean, it's tough to put yourself in a situation. It's very easy to watch a video on the internet and talk about your heroism. Everybody can do that very easily on Twitter. And everybody is.

You know, when you're in a vehicle that doesn't have an exit with a guy who just murdered somebody in front of you, and has a dripping blood off of a knife that's standing 10 feet away from you, 15 feet away from you.

There's probably a different standard there, that we should all kind of consider. And maybe give a little grace to what I saw at least was a woman, sitting across the -- the -- the aisle.

I think there is a difference there. But when you talk about that question. Those two questions are definitive.

You know, I know what I would want myself to do. I would hope I would act in a way that didn't completely embarrass myself afterward.

But I also think, when I'm thinking of my wife. My advice to my wife would not be to jump into the middle of that situation at all costs. She might do that anyway. She actually is a heck of a lot stronger than I am.

But she might do it anyway.

GLENN: How pathetic, but how true.

STU: Yes. But that would not be my advice to her.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: Now, maybe once the guy has certainly -- is out of the area. And you don't think the moment you step into that situation. He will turn around and kill you too. Then, of course, obviously. Anything you can do to step in.

Not that there was much anyone on the train could do.

I mean, I don't think there was an outcome change, no matter what anyone on that train did.

Unfortunately.

But would I want her to step in?

Of course. If she felt she was safe, yes.

Think about, you said, your wife. Think about your daughter. Your daughter is on that train, just watching someone else getting murdered like that. Would you advise your daughter to jump into a situation like that?

That girl sitting across the aisle was somebody's daughter. I don't know, man.

JASON: I would. You know, as a dad, would I advise.

Hmm. No.

As a human being, would I hope that my daughter or my wife or that I would get up and at least comfort that woman while she's dying on the floor of a train?

Yeah.

I would hope that my daughter, my son, that I would -- and, you know, I have more confidence in my son or daughter or my wife doing something courageous more than I would.

But, you know, I think I have a more realistic picture of myself than anybody else.

And I'm not sure that -- I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I know what I would hope I would do. But I also know what I fear I would do. But I would have hoped that I would have gotten up and at least tried to help her. You know, help her up off the floor. At least be there with her, as she's seeing her life, you know, spill out in under a minute.

And that's it other thing we have to keep in mind. This all happened so rapidly.

A minute is -- will seem like a very long period of time in that situation. But it's a very short period of time in real life.

STU: Yeah. You watch the video, Glenn. You know, I don't need the video to -- to change my -- my position on this.

But at his seem like there was a -- someone who did get there, eventually, to help, right? I saw someone seemingly trying to put pressure on her neck.

GLENN: Yeah. And tried to give her CPR.

STU: You know, no hope at that point. How long of a time period would you say that was?

Do you know off the top of your head?

GLENN: I don't know. I don't know. I know that we watched the video that I saw. I haven't seen past 30 seconds after she --

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: -- is down. And, you know, for 30 seconds nothing is happening. You know, that is -- that is not a very long period of time.

STU: Right.

GLENN: In reality.

STU: And especially, I saw the pace he was walking. He certainly can't be -- you know, he may have left the actual train car by 30 seconds to a minute. But he wasn't that far away. Like he was still in visual.

He could still turn around and look and see what's going on at that point. So certainly still a threat is my point. He has not, like, left the area. This is not that type of situation.

You know, I -- look, as you point out, I think if I could be super duper sexist for a moment here, sort of my dividing line might just be men and women.

You know, I don't know if it's that a -- you're not supposed to say that, I suppose these days. But, like, there is a difference there. If I'm a man, you know, I would be -- I would want my son to jump in on that, I suppose. I don't know if he could do anything about it. But you would expect at least a grown man to be able to go in there and do something about it. A woman, you know, I don't know.

Maybe I'm -- I hope --

GLENN: Here's the thing I -- here's the thing that I -- that causes me to say, no. You should have jumped in.

And that is, you know, you've already killed one person on the train. So you've proven that you're a killer. And anybody who would have screamed and got up and was with her, she's dying. She's dying. Get him. Get him.

Then the whole train is responsible for stopping that guy. You know. And if you don't stop him, after he's killed one person, if you're not all as members of that train, if you're not stopping him, you know, the person at the side of that girl would be the least likely to be killed. It would be the ones that are standing you up and trying to stop him from getting back to your daughter or your wife or you.

JASON: There was a -- speaking of men and women and their roles in this. There was a video circling social media yesterday. In Sweden. There was a group of officials up on a stage. And one of the main. I think it was health official woman collapses on stage. Completely passes out.

All the men kind of look away. Or I don't know if they're looking away. Or pretending that they didn't know what was going on. There was another woman standing directly behind the woman passed out.

Immediately springs into action. Jumps on top. Grabs her pant leg. Grabs her shoulder. Spins her over and starts providing care.

What did she have that the other guys did not? Or women?

She was a sheepdog. There is a -- this is my issue. And I completely agree with Stu. I completely agree with you. There's some people that do not respond this way. My issue is the proportion of sheepdogs versus people that don't really know how to act. That is diminishing in western society. And American society.

We see it all the time in these critical actions. I mean, circumstances.

There are men and women, and it's actually a meme. That fantasize about hoards of people coming to attack their home and family. And they sit there and say, I've got it. You guys go. I'm staying behind, while I smoke my cigarette and wait for the hoards to come, because I will sacrifice myself. There are men and women that fantasize of block my highway. Go ahead. Block my highway. I'm going to do something about it. They fantasize about someone holding up -- not a liquor store. A convenience store or something. Because they will step in and do something. My issue now is that proportion of sheepdogs in society is disappearing. Just on statistical fact, there should be one within that train car, and there were none.

STU: Yeah. I mean --

JASON: They did not respond.

STU: We see what happens when they do, with Daniel Penny. Our society tries to vilify them and crush their existence. Now, there weren't that many people on that train. Right?

At least on that car. At least it's limited. I only saw three or four people there, there may have been more. I agree with you, though. Like, you see what happens when we actually do have a really recent example of someone doing exactly what Jason wants and what I would want a guy to do. Especially a marine to step up and stop this from happening. And the man was dragged by our legal system to a position where he nearly had to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I mean, I -- it's insanity. Thankfully, they came to their senses on that one.

GLENN: Well, the difference between that one and this one though is that the guy was threatening. This one, he killed somebody.

STU: Yeah. Right. Well, but -- I think -- but it's the opposite way. The debate with Penny, was should he have recognize that had this person might have just been crazy and not done anything?

Maybe. He hadn't actually acted yet. He was just saying things.

GLENN: Yeah. Well --

STU: He didn't wind up stabbing someone. This is a situation where these people have already seen what this man will do to you, even when you don't do anything to try to stop him. So if this woman, who is, again, looks to be an average American woman.

Across the aisle. Steps in and tries to do something. This guy could easily turn around and just make another pile of dead bodies next to the one that already exists.

And, you know, whether that is an optimal solution for our society, I don't know that that's helpful.

In that situation.

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