GLENN: On Monday, a married mother of two in Michigan, who had sex with two boys, one 14 and one 15, he -- they -- they were lured into sex with her. She sent naked pictures on Snapchat. She's 38 years old. She was sending the boys pictures of herself in a bathtub and performing sex acts. She would go to the boys' house and drive up into their parking lot after 1:00 a.m., between 1:00 and 4:00. And the boys would sneak out, and they would have sex with this 38-year-old woman in the car.
Michigan State Police said they started conversing and exchanging nude photographs while they were still in middle school.
Thirty-eight years old. She said at her sentencing, "This has been the biggest regret of my life." You think?
"My family means everything to me, and I've caused them a great deal of pain for these regretful choices that I have made."
PAT: Oh, clearly her family means everything to her.
PAT: That went without saying, didn't it?
GLENN: Pat's having a really hard time with this.
PAT: It's pretty clear, man, her husband, and her children were uppermost in her mind.
STU: Well, I think it's true. She was trying to expand the family.
STU: She loved the family so much, she was doing the act that expands it.
JEFFY: The biggest mistake of her life was getting caught.
GLENN: Hey, who doesn't -- who doesn't, as a son, like to have the most popular mom in school? You know, you like hearing that your mom is cool. She's the -- oh, your mom is great. I wish I had a mom like that. You define maybe having a mom like that in a different way than perhaps she is defining that.
PAT: Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
GLENN: So the mother of one of the victims said, "You made a conscious effort on several occasions to make arrangements to meet my son, sneak out of your house, start your car, leave your husband and children at your home, and drive to my son's father's house, back in the driveway between midnight and 4:00 a.m., and wait for my son to run into the driveway, commit a crime and leave. Did you know this was wrong? Did you ever worry that you were doing harm to my son?"
Mom said, "The guys now at school pick at him. They say it's cool that he had sex with a mom. My son shared with me that the guys at school have no idea what he's going through."
STU: They pick on him by saying it was cool?
GLENN: She said the guys at school now pick on him, and others say that it's cool. So he's trapped in this world of a 38 -- if we -- if this was a guy, if this was a guy that was doing this to, you know, 15-year-old women --
PAT: Oh, yeah.
GLENN: -- the country would be on fire.
PAT: Sure. Yeah.
GLENN: On fire.
STU: Definitely a double standard on this one.
GLENN: Oh, my gosh.
PAT: There's no doubt.
GLENN: I mean, and I don't know. Is that right? I don't know.
GLENN: Is that right? No.
STU: Yeah, I think maybe -- maybe it is. Maybe it is.
PAT: Maybe it is.
JEFFY: Stu, I'm with you. You have no idea. You may want to rethink your thinking because I'm with you.
PAT: I think maybe it is.
STU: Oh, wow. I think maybe it is.
PAT: We know you're with him, Jeffy.
GLENN: Yeah, wait a minute.
PAT: That's another thing that goes without saying.
GLENN: You're leaning towards the Jeffy side. You must know that you're wrong here.
STU: Right. This is not a good step in my life. I'm obviously developing the wrong way.
PAT: It's really not. But we do have that bias, don't we? Because what you're thinking that, you know, the kids -- that was the greatest thing that ever happened to them, right? That's your thinking. Now, if those were girls, you would not be thinking that.
STU: Not think that way at all. It is sexism. But it is --
GLENN: Can I tell you something --
PAT: It is. And it's wrong.
GLENN: -- look at how hard we work to keep our children moral, to keep them on the right track, to try our best to help them through -- and then when they turn 18, you know, their life is their life. And they're going to make their mistakes and make their choices. And whatever. But to protect them as long as we possibly can.
You know, you send your kids to school and you know they're going to fall in with the wrong crowd. Or they could fall in with the wrong crowd. They could be doing things that -- your parents never knew what you were doing. Why do you think it was different with you? But you try.
To have a 38-year-old adult come and prey on your children is beyond understanding.
STU: Yeah. And this is an extreme case as to what age this went on. It was very early. Usually these things are typically like high school situations. And they're still wrong, obviously. I think there's an issue where, you know -- for example, saw this stat yesterday. The world record 100-meter from a female is slower than the best time for a high school boy in the last year. So the world -- all-time world record for a female is slower than the best time -- in high school this year for guys.
And so there's a physical level here of -- of victim versus predator, where a male, who is stronger -- and I know these things don't happen. We're not allowed to say these things anymore. But there's differences. Yeah, don't hire me at Google. There are differences between men and women. And I think when you see a man go after a younger woman in high school, you think predator to victim. Where the male in this particular case, likely was much stronger than the woman. It doesn't feel as physically -- it's manipulative mentally, and it's a physical act, but it's not a forceful act, so we categorize it differently. That's obviously not right because both acts are completely --
GLENN: It's not a forceful act. Look at the girls that are with R. Kelly right now.
STU: This is a -- yeah, bizarre story. Did we talk about that at all?
I don't know if we have. So with R. Kelly. And they're staying -- where is this? Atlanta? And they're -- I mean, have you seen the interviews? They're supposedly totally free to leave.
JEFFY: Getting help with their career.
GLENN: Uh-huh, yeah, right. So R. has all of these women that have really, truly been brainwashed. I mean, if you watch the interviews with these girls, they have absolutely -- I mean, are you free to leave here?
Well, I don't feel comfortable talking about that now.
Okay. Are you free to talk about R. and, you know, maybe the things that you guys are doing?
No, I'm not. You know, I just love him. I just love him.
I mean, it's creepy stuff.
STU: And R. is obviously not his first name.
GLENN: That's what I like to call him. His friends call him R. His friends call him R.
PAT: And you're friends with this dirtbag?
STU: Really? I don't think so.
PAT: He's been in some really questionable situations for a long time.
STU: This is --
PAT: I mean, at least 20 years, right?
GLENN: This is the most bizarre surreal conversation I have had.
PAT: So weird. Well, he's a dirtbag from way back.
PAT: And continues to get away with it.
GLENN: Hang on. These girls are all of age. They're all of age.
GLENN: So who are you to say, who are you to judge?
PAT: That he started a sex cult? Uh, I'm Pat.
STU: But, I mean, that is a different story. It is interesting in that in 2002, he had the underaged girl sex tape, which is -- that's -- you're in criminal area here. If you have underage girls and you're living with a bunch of them, there's nothing criminal about that, unless you decide to marry them. Because that law -- that sort of love is not allowed. We all know all love is equal and all love is allowed, but not that sort of love.
STU: If you have married multiple people, then that is not allowed. However, R. Kelly living with them and having sex with all of them is completely allowed. I want to sure we understand, it's the level of commitment that is illegal. That's the problem here.
PAT: It's a strange, strange line. If you're more committed, you can't. That's not legal. Sorry.
STU: If you're super-duper into it and you actually sign legal documents, wow, that's terrible. But if you're just doing it on the side and you can -- you know, whenever you feel like, jump in and out of every relationship, totally fine. I want to make sure we all understand love is equal, except the loves that aren't equal.
STU: I always find that argument to be fascinating. I'm sorry.
GLENN: No, I remember being told, you know, that that idea of slippery slope would never happen. It's only a matter of time. And the only reason it hasn't happened is because --
PAT: They don't have as good a PR firm.
GLENN: They don't have a PR firm. That's it. If polygamists had a PR firm and they were -- and they were on the left, absolutely they would be arguing for it.
PAT: Yeah. If it wasn't tied to religion, they'd probably already be -- it would be legal now.
GLENN: Yeah. And may I say, crazy religion.
PAT: Yes. You may say that.
GLENN: Okay. Good. I just want to make sure -- I'm not sure what's crazy anymore. I'm not -- I'm not sure where anybody stands anymore.
STU: They don't stand anywhere. That's kind of the problem.