BLOGAugust 28, 2017

Politicizing Harvey: MSNBC Host Pushes This Issue While the Water Levels Rise

Hurricane Harvey, which has been downgraded to the level of a tropical storm, has devastated the Texas coast. Homes in some towns along the coast have been filled with waist-high water, and emergency personnel have been using boats to rescue people.

Amid this humanitarian crisis, a TV news host thought it would be a good time to get political. MSNBC’s Stephanie Ruhle asked both MSNBC correspondent Kerry Sanders and Texas Gov. Greg Abbott if illegal immigrants were running the risk of being deported if they found refuge at storm shelters.

On radio Monday, Pat and Stu discussed the politicization of Harvey and compared it to how Hurricane Katrina coverage was used against President George W. Bush.

“You’re talking to people who are right in the middle of this flooding and trying to save lives,” Pat said, asserting that the main issue right now is simply saving people regardless of color or creed.

Stu noted that people are also turning Harvey into a political cudgel by making apples-to-oranges comparisons about funding. People are blaming President Donald Trump for cutting back on funding for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

“So if they had the extra hundred million dollars, they would have what – pushed the hurricane back out to sea?” Stu asked.

Kind of interesting over the weekend, as we have this major catastrophic human tragedy going on, MSNBC host Stephanie Rule still trying to make it something political. Still trying to get up in people's faces about --

STU: Oh, yeah. Heavy doses.

PAT: -- illegal immigration. Listen to her talking to one of the reporters who is in Houston, in the flooding, talking about what's going on, and where does she take it?

VOICE: So if you're in your car and you're listening to us right now on satellite radio and you're not sure where you're going, you're just evacuating, get out the Airbnb app. They're opening up places for people to stay for free.

VOICE: Can I ask, you might not know the answer, but Texas, especially southern Texas, has quite a few undocumented immigrants. Are they able to go to any of these centers that you're being directed to by city officials?

VOICE: Not only -- not only is it wide open. Nobody checks on any of that.

PAT: Thank you. Thank you.

STU: Excuse me. We're just going to let you drown outside.

PAT: I mean, that is so ridiculous.

Let me ask you a question, Stephanie, are illegal aliens human? Then, yes, they get to go to the fallout centers. And even the pets can. Jeez.

STU: The pets. That's one of the big things they're showing on social media are all the pets being rescued. No, we're not monsters. I know this is stunning. People in Houston are not monsters that wants everybody else to die.

PAT: But that wasn't enough for her. Because she was talking to Governor Greg Abbott just a few minutes later.

VOICE: -- pathway out of the storm.

VOICE: How about risk of deportation? For those undocumented immigrants that could be in the way of the storm's path.

PAT: Okay. So now she's heard they can come to the shelter, but I'm sure you mean, mean Texans are going to deport them once you find out that they're not legal citizens.

GLENN: Stay in the clear to go to some of these evacuation centers. Do they have to show ID?

VOICE: It's my understanding from what I saw the border patrol instructions yesterday, that will not be an issue. What everyone is focused on right now is ensuring all we can to protect life. We all have a high regard for life. We want to ensure the safety of all lives. And we're prepared to take all measures to do so.

PAT: Greg Abbott is great. I mean, he handled that question a lot better than I would.

STU: Yours would have had many swears in the middle of it. Maybe --

PAT: Potentially yes.

STU: -- throwing something at the camera. There could have been some incidents there.

PAT: Uh-huh. There could have been.

STU: Understandable in that spot.

PAT: Oh, man. Can we not take it political, when we're right in the middle of the catastrophe? How about that MSNBC?

PAT: Pat, Stu, Jeffy, in for Glenn on the Glenn Beck Program. He's under the weather today. Should be back tomorrow. Mercury One is working with six disaster partners. They've been preparing to deploy on this since last week. So they've been ready and they're already there on the scene. Operation barbecue is there.

STU: It's interesting, obviously they're at the point now where they haven't fully deployed. They're all staging around the state, all these organizations. I mean, if Operation Barbecue needs a place to stage, we are only a few hours away from the disaster area, and they could come stage their barbecue facilities right here in the parking lot.

PAT: Very true. Good point, yeah.

JEFFY: You are a genius.

STU: I'm just -- look, we are all about helping, as everyone knows. And I think that's a good way to help.

PAT: No question. So they're scouting locations where they can set up because obviously they don't want to be underwater in a few minutes. They'll have the capacity to feed 15 to 20,000 meals a day. That is -- that's awesome.

Team Rubicon is going to be there staging all around Texas, to send in recon teams to assess the situation and to deploy search-and-rescue boats.

City Impact is staging supplies for deployment. They've already released an initial $100,000 to fund initial field operations. And 2 million worth of gifts in kind, in anticipation of shipments.

Somebody Cares, it's a cooking team. They've already arrived on the scene. Gleaning for the World, dispatched four tractor-trailor loads of water and 16 loads of blankets. So -- and the Provisions Project, providing monetary and volunteer support for search-and-rescue operations.

So if you'd like to help out, if you'd like to donate, 100 percent of the proceeds go to the -- the Houston Relief Fund. And you can go to mercuryone.org in order to donate. Okay?

Because -- because we do the operational costs with other events during the course of the year, all of your money goes where you intend it to be. So it's a great cause.

888-727-BECK. 888-727-BECK is our phone number.

This is a really catastrophic event. And as we were just playing a few minutes ago for you, some people already trying to turn it political. I mean, how do you -- how do you try to make this about deportation and illegal aliens when you're talking to people who are right in the middle of this flooding and trying to save lives, not caring whether they're black, white, red, or brown. Nobody cares.

STU: Yeah, certainly not. I've seen multiple examples of this already, not just with illegal immigrants. First of all, I saw someone talking about how, well, did you know Donald Trump's budget cut funding by 10 million or $20 million for the NOAA?

Which, of course, deals with hurricanes all the time. And it's like -- and now this could cost billions of dollars in damage.

So if they had the extra $100 million, they would be -- they would have, what? Pushed the hurricane back out to sea? What would have exactly happened? They all knew the hurricane was coming.

It had nothing to do with -- they didn't like, see it? We all know the hurricane was coming. We just don't know how it was going to react. And if they had an extra little bit of cash, which probably hasn't been implemented, these cuts, I don't think there would have been a difference there.

Another one was people saying like, here's the list of the, whatever. Fifteen, 20 Republicans in Texas, who voted against Hurricane Sandy relief.

PAT: Right. Because they wanted people to die.

STU: Because they wanted people to die. And now we're going to punish those people in Texas because their representatives voted against the funding package. Which, of course, there was never a vote against funding the relief. There were votes against the way it was done, how much money was going to different areas. I mean, we are a country that has turned the corner on this. And I don't know that it's necessarily a positive in every circumstance.

But there was a time in which we did not have the federal government to come in for local disaster relief. That was not part of their job.

PAT: Yeah.

STU: And I would say for most of our history.

JEFFY: Yeah.

STU: And that changed. And now we just assume FEMA is going to cover it every time. So that's kind of where we are now. And even most Republicans don't fight that.

PAT: Yeah, accept it. They just accept it now. And really, that started under Bush, I think. With Katrina. Maybe a little before that. But it didn't used to be that everybody was saying, like you mentioned, where's FEMA? The minute something happened. Because that's not what they did. They weren't the first responders.

STU: There were stories in our history where they turned people away. The federal government to try to show up. And they'd be like, get out of here. This is our problem. Get out. That is not the way we are anymore.

JEFFY: No, it's tough to get those days back.

STU: And Bush is -- I think, you're right, Pat, in that there were certainly aspects of it that that happened before Bush. But Bush really put the -- it made it into a caricature.

Because it really, arguably, ruined his presidency. When you -- just again, we're doing a break here about the way people are talking about politics, the disaster. So I -- I recognize that that's kind of a bizarre thing to talk about today. But that was really -- when it became politicized was that, because the left and the media used Katrina, not as a tragedy where we all come together, but a way to say George Bush was incompetent. It really became that, instead of a tragedy, a large human tragedy, it was just, this guy we don't like, he's really bad at what he's doing. And so they used that as a bludgeon on him. And it's now become to the point where I think every person who is a politician now seems like I can't do enough -- I can't throw enough money -- I can't throw enough resources at everything that happens because if one of these things happen, it's going to be my butt. And, of course, this is how politicians think. It's pathetic. But it's how they think, many of them. And so it -- at this point, this is a legitimate. I mean, it's shaping up to be a Katrina-sized disaster. It's that bad.

JEFFY: If not worse. Yeah.

PAT: It was Katrina and Puffy Combs. Right? Or Sean P. Diddy, or whatever he is. Wasn't it him that said --

STU: No, I believe it was Kanye.

PAT: It was Kanye. Kanye West that announced -- and it was because of Katrina: George Bush doesn't like black people.

STU: Mike Myers. Poor guy was standing next to him. Do you remember that?

PAT: What was that event?

STU: I think it was the big Katrina fundraiser afterwards. It was one of those where they put them on every network. And they had all the celebrities come out. And then George Bush doesn't care about black people.

PAT: Yeah, that's not in the prompter, Kanye.

STU: And Austin Powers is standing next to him with this face, I don't know what to do.

That was such a weird moment. But, you know, it's actually where -- one of the -- one of the -- that was one of the starts for Van Jones in the public eye.

PAT: Oh, yeah.

STU: Operated an organization at the time that started selling Bush hates black people T-shirts. I think it was -- it was some phrase that meant that. Or Bush doesn't care about black people. And he started selling the T-shirts. And that's what funded a good chunk of the early part of his organization. Later on, obviously to rise to the heights of the White House, just a few years later. Which is really incredible.

You know, this is going to be ugly. And it's going to be ugly not only in the fact of it being a natural disaster, but what people will say, what people will do. I mean, the Keith Olbermann thing. Did you guys see the Keith Olbermann thing?

PAT: No.

STU: Why would you? It's Keith Olbermann.

PAT: Right. I don't even know where to find Keith either, if I wanted to.

STU: And I don't either. I know he's on Twitter. He's on Twitter.

PAT: Okay.

STU: And so Betsy DeVos, the education secretary tweeted something like, hey, we're in the middle of helping. All these local schools. Generic message of, like, just so you know, here's what we're doing to help schools. And he tweeted back like, you will do more damage than this hurricane -- than the hurricane could ever do to these schools, mother Fer.

PAT: What?

STU: What has she done?

PAT: Wow.

STU: She believes education should be better and more controlled by the individual. And that means in the middle of a hurricane, you start calling her a mother Fer publicly? This guy is completely insane at this point. He's given up attempting to appear sane.

PAT: Wow.

JEFFY: Yeah, he has.

STU: He's just abandoned the process. Like every day, we wake up and we have crazy thoughts. Everybody has a crazy thought in their head every once in a while. You know what, I should order 14 20-piece McNuggets today. And you just stop yourself because we live in a society, we're supposed to all have standards. And Keith Olbermann has given up on the process.

PAT: That's for sure.

STU: He is the mental equivalent of ordering 20 piece McNuggets over and over again and going through the drive through. That's where he's landed. I mean, in some ways, it's sad. He was never smart before. Man, it has gone downhill. He has given up on society.

PAT: That makes him the perfect match though again for ESPN.

STU: He should probably go back. He should probably go back.

JEFFY: Yes, it does.

PAT: They're kind of on the same wavelength now.

STU: They can't put him on TV. I think he'd just show up in an open robe. I don't think anyone -- like I just got -- find him a nice quiet place, America. Find Keith Olbermann a nice quiet place where he can relax. He can live his life. Maybe some birds fly by occasionally. He gets a nice tray of cafeteria food.

PAT: Yeah.

STU: I mean, it's time. The poor man needs a quiet place.

PAT: And this is what we can't have. We have to come together as Americans and take care of a catastrophe like this. Right? Without worrying about who is on the left, who is on the right, what is your political stance. I don't care. Let's save you. Try to make life a little bit better for you right now.

JEFFY: We are seeing some of that, at least with people on the ground. Right? The everyday people are doing that.

PAT: Yes. Yes.

JEFFY: Are coming together and helping people. We saw footage of people bringing out their boats all day yesterday, rescuing people. That wasn't FEMA.

STU: No.

JEFFY: That wasn't the mayor. That wasn't the governor.

PAT: That's right.

JEFFY: That was everyday people saying, these people need help. I'm helping.

STU: We still have three to four days of rain and we're already jumping to the politics. I mean, that is disturbing. That's not the way this is supposed to work.

EXPOSED: Tim Walz's shocking ties to radical Muslim cleric

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz is directly connected in more ways than one to a radical Muslim cleric named Asad Zaman. Zaman's history and ties are despicable, and despite Walz's efforts to dismiss his connection to Zaman, the proof is undeniable. Glenn Beck heads to the chalkboard to connect the dots on this relationship.

Watch the FULL Episode HERE: Glenn Beck Exposes TERRORIST SYMPATHIZERS Infiltrating the Democrat Party

RADIO

Is there a sinister GOP plan to SELL national parks?

Is Sen. Mike Lee pushing a sinister plan to sell our national parks and build “affordable housing” on them? Glenn Beck fact checks this claim and explains why Sen. Lee’s plan to sell 3 million acres of federal land is actually pro-freedom.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Now, let me give you a couple of things, from people I generally respect.

Chris Rufo, I really respect.

I'm totally against selling this land.

Nobody is going to build affordable housing deep in the Olympic Peninsula, which is one of the most beautiful places in the country.

I agree, it's in Washington State. It's on the coast. And it's a rain forest.

I want my kids hiking, fishing, and camping on those lands, not selling them off for some tax credit scam. This is a question I want to ask Mike Lee about.

That's really good. Matt Walsh chimes in, I'm very opposed to the plan. The biggest environmentalist in the country are and always have been, conservatives who like to hunt and fish.

We don't just call ourselves environmentalists, because the label has too much baggage.

And the practice always just means communist. Really, we are naturalists in the tradition of Teddy Roosevelt, and that's why most of us hate the idea of selling off federal lands to build affordable housing or whatever. I want to get to affordable housing here in a second.

Preserving nature is important. It's a shame we haven't -- that we've allowed conservation to become so left-wing coated. It never was historically.

No, and it still isn't.

You're right about one thing, Matt. We are the best conservatives. We actually live in these places. We use these places. We respect the animals. We respect the land. We know how the circle of life works. So I agree with you on that.

But affordable housing. Why do you say affordable housing or whatever?

Are you afraid those will be black people? I'm just playing devil's advocate? Are you just afraid of black people? You don't want any poor people in your neighborhood or your forest?

That's not what they mean by affordable housing.

And I know that's not what you mean either.

But what -- what we mean by affordable housing is, if you take a look at the percentage of land that is owned in some of these states. You can't live in a house, in some of these states, you know. Close to anything, for, you know, less than a million dollars. Because there's no land!

There's plenty of land all around.

Some of it. Let's just talk about Utah.

Some of it is like the surface of the moon!

But no. No. No.

Not going to hunt and fish on the surface of the moon. But we can't have you live anywhere.

I mean, you have to open up -- there is a balance between people and the planet. And I'm sorry. But when you're talked about one half of 1 percent, and we're not talking about Yellowstone.

You know, we're not. Benji Backer, the Daily Caller, he says, the United States is attempting to sell off three million acres of public land, that will be used for housing development through the addition of the spending bill.

This is a small provision to the big, beautiful bill that would put land in Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado. Idaho. New Mexico. Oregon. Utah. Washington, and Wyoming at risk.

Without so much as a full and fair debate by members of both sides of the political aisle.

You know, I talked -- I'll talk to him about this.

The irony is, the edition of this provision by Republican-led Senate goes entirely against conservation legacy of a conservation. President Trump made a promise to revive this legacy.

Yada. Yada. Yada.

More about Teddy Roosevelt.

Then let me give you this one from Lomez. Is Mike Lee part of a sinister plan to sell off federal land?

This plan to sell off public lands is a terrible proposal that doesn't make any sense under our present circumstances and would be a colossal political blunder. But I'll try to be fair to base Mike Lee.

And at least have him explain where this is all coming from.

Okay. I will have him do that in about 30 minutes.

Let me give you just my perspective on this.

I'm from the West. I love the west.

I don't hike myself.

I think there's about 80 percent of the people who say, I just love to hike. And they don't love to hike. They never go outside.

I'm at least willing to admit. I don't like to hike. But I love the land. I live in a canyon now. That I would love to just preserve this whole canyon in my lifetime. I'm not going to rule from the grave. But in my lifetime, to protect this, so it remains unspoiled. Because it is beautiful!

But we're talking about selling 3 million acres of federal land. And it's becoming dangerous.

And it's a giveaway. Or a threat to nature.

But can we just look at the perspective here?

The federal government owned 640 million acres. That is nearly 28 percent of all land in America!

How much land do we have?

Well, that's about the size of France.

And Germany. Poland.

And the United Kingdom, combined!

They own and hold pristine land, that is more than the size of those countries combined!

And most of that is west of the Mississippi. Where the federal control smothers the states.

Okay?

Shuts down opportunity. Turns local citizens into tenets of the federal estate.

You can't afford any house because you don't have any land!

And, you know, the states can't afford to take care of this land. You know why the states can't afford it?

Because you can't charge taxes on 70 percent of your land!

Anyway, on, meanwhile, the folks east of the Mississippi, like Kentucky, Georgia. Pennsylvania.

You don't even realize, you know, how little of the land, you actually control.

Or how easy it is for the same policies, to come for you.

And those policies are real.

Look, I'm not talking about -- I'm disturbed by Chris Rufo saying, that it is the Olympic forest.

I mean, you're not going to live in the rain forest. I would like to hear the case on that.

But we're not talking about selling Yellowstone or paving over Yosemite or anything like that.

We're talking about less than one half of one percent of federal land. Land that is remote.
Hard to access. Or mismanaged. I live in the middle of a national forest.

So I'm surrounded on all sides by a national forest, and then BLM land around that. And then me. You know who the worst neighbor I have is?

The federal government.

The BLM land is so badly mismanaged. They don't care what's happening.

Yeah. I'm going to call my neighbor, in Washington, DC, to have them fix something.

It's not going to happen.

If something is wrong with that land, me and my neighbors, we end up, you know, fixing the land.

We end up doing it. Because the federal government sucks at it.

Okay.

So here's one -- less than one half of 1 percent.

Why is it hard to access that land?

Well, let me give you a story. Yellowstone.

Do you know that the American bison, we call it the buffalo.

But it's the American bison.

There are no true American bison, in any place, other than Yellowstone.

Did you know that?

Here's almost an endangered species.

It's the only true American bison, is in Yellowstone.

Ranchers, I would love to raise real American bison.

And I would protect them.

I would love to have them roaming on my land.

But you can't!

You can't.

Real bison, you can't.

Why? Because the federal government won't allow any of them to be bred.

In fact, when Yellowstone has too many bison on their land, you know what the federal government does?

Kills them. And buries them with a bulldozer. Instead of saying, hey. We have too many.

We will thin the herd.

We will put them on a truck. Here's some ranchers that will help repopulate the United States with bison. No, no, no. You can't do that.

Why? It's the federal government. Stop asking questions. Do you know what they've done to our bald eagles.

I have pictures of piles of bald eagles.

That they'll never show you.

They'll never show you.

You can't have a bald eagle feather!

It's against the law, to have a feather, from a bald eagle!

If it's flying, and a feather falls off, you can't pick it up. Because they're that sacred.

But I have pictures of piles of bald eagles, dead, from the windmills.

And nobody says a thing.

Okay.

But we're talking about lands.

States can't afford to manage it.

Okay. But how can the federal government?

Now, this is really important.

The federal government is, what? $30 trillion in debt or are we 45 trillion now, I'm not sure?

Our entitlement programs, all straight infrastructure, crumbling.

And yet, we're still clinging to millions of acres of land, that the federal government can't maintain. Yeah, they can.

Because they can always print money.

We can't print money in the state, so we can't afford it.

Hear me out. The BLM Forest Service, Park Service, billions of dollars behind in maintenance, roads, trails, fire brakes.

Everything is falling apart..

So what's the real plan here?

Well, the Biden administration was the first one that was really open about it, pushing for what was called 30 by 30.

They want 30 percent of all US land and water, under conservation by 2030.

But the real goal is 5050.

50 percent of the land, and the water, in the government's control by 2050.

Half of the country locked up under federal or elite approved protection.

Now, you think that's not going to affect your ability to hunt, fish, graze, cattle. Harvest, timber, just live free. You won't be able to go on those. It won't be conservatives, who stop you from hunting and fishing.

It will be the same radical environmental ideologues, who see the land, as sacred, over people!

I mean, unless it's in your backyard. Your truck. Or your dear stand, you know, then I guess you can't touch that land.

Here's something that no one is talking about, and it goes to the 2030.

The Treasury right now, and they started under Obama, and they're still doing it now.

Sorry, under Biden.

And they're doing it now. The Treasury is talking about putting federal land on the national ballot sheet. What does that mean?

Well, it will make our balance sheet so much better.

Because it looks like we have so much more wealth, and we will be able to print more money.

Uh-huh. What happens, you know. You put something sacred like that, on your balance sheet, and the piggy bank runs dry.

And all of the banks are like, okay.

Well, you can't pay anymore.

What happens in a default?

What happens, if there's catastrophic failure. You don't get to go fish on that land. Because that land becomes Chinese.

You think our creditors, foreign and domestic, won't come knocking?

What happens when federal land is no longer a national treasure, but a financial asset, that can be seized or sold or controlled by giant banks or foreign countries.

That land that you thought, you would always have access to, for your kids, for your hunting lodge, for your way of life.

That is really important!

But it might not be yours at all. Because you had full faith in the credit of the United States of America.

So what is the alternative?

RADIO

Dershowitz SLAMS ‘expert’ lies in explosive trans surgery debate

The Supreme Court ruled 6-3 in favor a Tennessee law that bans transgender surgeries for minors. But famed attorney Alan Dershowitz explains to Glenn why “it should have been unanimous.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Alan Dershowitz, how are you?

ALAN: I'm doing great, how about you?

GLENN: It has been a really confusing week. I'm losing friends, I think, because I stand with Israel's right to defend themselves. And I'm pointing out, that while I don't want a war, Iran is a really bad place.

And then I see, the Supreme Court comes out best interest there are three justices are like, I don't know. I think children, you know, can change their identity before we even let them drive or carry a gun. Or enlist in the military.

It's insane!

ALAN: It is insane. Especially since the radical left said that -- 17 and a half-year-old -- voluntary sex with their boyfriend. That would be sexist, that would be horrible.

But they can consent to have an abortion. They can consent to have radical surgery, that can't be reversed.

By the way, the decision is like six to two and a half. Elena Kagan, my former colleague at Harvard, didn't reach the merits of whether or not a state could actually ban these operations on a minor. She got involved in whether or not you need super, duper scrutiny, or just super scrutiny, a kind of, you know, a very technical thing.

But she didn't rule on whether under any kind of scrutiny, the state could do that. So definitely, two of them said that the state could do it, but not necessarily a third one.

GLENN: Okay.

Can you break this argument down? And why it should have been unanimous?

ALAN: Oh, it should be unanimous. There's no question.

States under the Constitution, have the authority to decide medical issues. States decide a whole range of medical issues. I remember when I was a young professor, there was an issue of whether or not one twin could be operated on to remove a kidney, to be given to another twin.

And, you know, that case went all the way through -- the federal government never got involved in that. That was up to the state of Massachusetts. They made interesting decisions.

Some states go the other way.

Half the countries of Europe go one way. The other half go the other way. And just as Justice Brandeis once said that things are the laboratories of Constitutional experimentation.

They have the right to do things their own way. And then we'll see over time. Over time, I predict that we will find that this kind of surgery, is not acceptable scientifically for young people.

And the New York Times had an absurd op-ed yesterday. By the mother of a transgender person.

And it never mentioned. It originally said that the person was now 18 years old.

And the decision does not apply to anyone who is 18.

You know, just wait. Don't make irreversible decisions while you're 12 years old. Or 13 years old.

Because we know the statistics show, that some people, at least, regret having made these irreversible decisions, particularly. Yeah.

GLENN: So why is it -- why is it that the state. Why wasn't the argument, you can't do this to children?

ALAN: Well, you know, that's the question.

Whether or not if the state says, you can do it to children, that violates the Constitution. I think states are given an enormous amount of leeway, this. Deciding what's best for people.

You leave it to the public.

And, you know, for me, if I were, you know, voting. I would not vote to allow a 17-year-old to make that irreversible decision. But if the state wants to do it. If a country in Europe wants to do it. All right!

But the idea that there's a constitutional right for a minor, who can't -- isn't old enough to consent to a contract, to have sex, is old enough to consent to do something that will change their life forever, and they will come to regret, is -- is absurd.

GLENN: So I don't know how you feel about Justice Thomas. But he -- he took on the so-called experts.

And -- and really kind of took him to the woodshed. What were your thoughts on that?

ALAN: Well, I agree with that. I devoted my whole life to challenging experts. That's what I do in court.

I challenge experts all the time. But most of the major cases that I've won, have been cases where experts went one way, and we were -- persuaded a jury or judge. That the expert is not really an expert.

Experts have become partisans, just like everybody else.

And so I'm glad that expert piece is being challenged by judges.

And, you know, experts ought to challenge judges, judges challenge experts. That's the world we live in. Everybody challenges everybody else. As long as all of us are allowed to speak, allowed to have our point of view expressed, allowed to vote, that's democracy.

Democracy does not require a singular answer to complex medical, psychological, moral problems. We can have multiple answers.

We're not a dictatorship. We're not in North Korea or Iran, where the ayatollah or the leader tells us what to think. We can think for ourselves, and we can act for ourselves.

GLENN: Yeah. It's really interesting because this is my argument with Obamacare.

I was dead set against Obamacare. But I wasn't against Romneycare when it was in Massachusetts. If that's what Massachusetts wants to do, Massachusetts can do it. Try it.

And honestly, if it would work in a state, we would all adopt it.

But the problem is, that some of these things, like Romneycare, doesn't work. And so they want to -- they want to rope the federal government into it. Because the federal government can just print money. You know, any state wants to do anything.

For instance, I have a real hard time with California right now.

Because I have a feeling, when they fail, we will be roped into paying for the things that we all knew were bad ideas.

Why? Why should I pay for it in Texas, when I know it wouldn't work?

And I've always wanted to live in California, but I don't, because I know that's not going to work.

ALAN: Yeah. But conservatives sometimes take the opposite point of view.

Take guns, for example.

The same Justice Thomas says that I state cannot have the authority to decide that guns should not be available in time square.

Or in schools. There has to be a national openness to guns. Because of the second apple.

And -- you can argue reasonably, what the Second Amendment means.

But, you know, conservatives -- many conservatives take the view that it has to be a single standard for the United States.

It can't vary in their decision how to control -- I'm your favorite --

GLENN: Isn't that -- doesn't that -- doesn't that just take what the -- what the Bill of Rights is about, and turns it upside the head?

I mean, it says, anything not mentioned here, the states have the rights.

But they -- they cannot. The federal government cannot get involved in any of these things.

And these are rights that are enshrined.

So, I mean, because you could say that, but, I mean, when it comes to health care, that's not in the Constitution. Not in the Bill of Rights.

ALAN: Oh, no.

There's a big difference, of course.

The Second Amendment does provide for the right to bear arms.

The question is whether it's interpreted in light of the beginning of the Second Amendment. Which says, essentially, a well-regulated, well-regulated militia. Whether that applies to private ownership as well.

Whether it could be well-regulated by states.

Look, these are interesting debates.

And the Supreme Court, you know, decides these.

But all I'm saying is that many of these decisions are in some way, influenced by ideology.

The words of the Constitution, don't speak like, you know, the Ten Commandments and God, giving orders from on high.

They're often written in ambiguous terms. Even the Ten Commandments. You know, it says, thou shall not murder. And it's been interpreted by some to say, thou shall not still, the Hebrew word is (foreign language), for murder, not kill. And, of course, we know that in parts of the Bible, you are allowed to kill your enemies, if they come after you to kill you, rise up and kill them first.

So, you know, everything -- human beings are incapable of writing with absolute clarity, about complex issues.

That's why we need institutions to interpret them. The institutions should be fair.

And the Supreme Court is sometimes taking over too much authority, too much power.

I have an article today, with gay stone.

Can had starts with a quote from the book of Ruth.

And it says, when judges rule the land, there was famine.

And I say, judges were not supposed to ever rule, going back to Biblical times.

Judges are supposed to judge.

People who are elected or pointed appropriately. Are the ones supposed to rule.

GLENN: Quickly. Two other topics. And I know you have to go.

If I can get a couple of quick takes on you.

The Democrats that are being handcuffed, and throwing themselves into situations.

Do you find that to be a sign of a fascistic state or a publicity stunt?

ALAN: A publicity stunt. And they would knit it. You know, give them a drink at 11 o'clock in the bar. They will tell you, they are doing this deliberately to get attention.

Of course, a guy who is running behind in the mayor race in New York, goes and gets himself arrested. And now he's on every New York television station. And probably will move himself up in the polls.

So no.

Insular -- I don't believe in that. And I don't believe we should take it -- take it seriously.

GLENN: Last question.

I am proudly for Israel.

But I'm also for America. And I'm really tired of foreign wars.

And I think you can be pro-Israel and pro-America at the same time.

I don't think you can -- you don't have to say, I'm for Israel, defending themselves, and then that makes me a warmonger.

I am also very concerned about Iran. And have been for a very long time.

Because they're Twelvers. They're Shia Twelvers. That want to wash the world in blood. To hasten the return of the promised one.

So when they have a nuclear weapon. It's a whole different story.

ALAN: No, I agree with you, Tucker Carlson, is absolutely wrong, when he say he has to choose between America first or supporting Israel. Supporting Israel in this fight against Iran, is being America first.

It's supporting America. Israel has been doing all the hard work. It's been the one who lost its civilians and fortunately, none of its pilots yet.

But America and Israel work together in the interest of both countries.

So I'm -- I'm a big supporter of the United States, the patriarch. And I'm a big supporter of Israel at the same time.

Because they work together in tandem, to bring about Western -- Western values.

GLENN: Should we drop a bomb?

ALAN: Yes, we should.

GLENN: Our plane drop the bomb?

ALAN: Yes, we should. And without killing civilians. It can be done. Probably needs four bombs, not one bomb. First, one bomb to open up the mountain. Then another bomb to destroy what's going on inside.

And in my book The Preventive State, I make the case for when preventive war is acceptable. And the war against Iran is as acceptable as it would have been to attack Nazi Germany in the 1930s. If we had done that, if Britain and France had attacked Nazi Germany in the 1930s, instead of allowing it to be built up, it could have saved 60 million lives. And so sometimes, you have to take preventive actions to save lives.

GLENN: What is the preventive state out, Alan?

ALAN: Just now. Just now.

Very well on Amazon.

New York Times refuses to review it. Because I defended Donald Trump.

And Harvard club cancelled my appearance talked about the book. Because I haven't been defending Harvard. I've been defending President Trump's attack. By the way, they called Trump to Harvard: Go fund yourself.
(laughter)

GLENN: Okay.

Let's -- I would love to have you back on next week. To talk about the preventive state. If you will. Thank you, Alan. I appreciate it. Alan Dershowitz. Harvard Law school, professor emeritus, host of the Dershow. And the author of the new book that's out now, The Preventive State.

I think that's a really important topic. Because we are -- we are traveling down the roads, where fascism, on both sides, where fascism can start to creep in. And it's all for your own good.

It's all for your own protection. Be aware. Be aware.

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