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Gawker takedown: Author chronicles Hulk Hogan’s epic smackdown that bankrupted liberal website

How much do you really know about one of the biggest media stories of all time?

Ryan Holiday, the author and strategist behind the marketing expose “Trust Me, I’m Lying,” is back with a book about the famous battle between billionaire Peter Thiel and the now-defunct website Gawker.

Thiel had it in for Gawker after the site revealed in 2007 that he was gay, but the investor was smart enough to bide his time until he could catch Gawker doing something illegal: publishing without permission parts of a sex tape of Hulk Hogan and his former best friend’s wife.

In his new book, “Conspiracy: Peter Thiel, Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and the Anatomy of Intrigue,” Holiday gives an insider’s perspective on the famous Gawker takedown based on his time with both Thiel and former Gawker chief Nick Denton.

According to Holiday, Thiel’s chance meeting with a mysterious “Mr. A” was the turning point. “Mr. A” and attorney Charles Harder worked together to find any potential dirt on Gawker and jumped on the opportunity when the site published the Hogan footage.

Where is “Mr. A” now? Holiday didn’t say who he was or exactly what he’s doing now, but it’s a safe bet to imagine he’s set for life.

“I would imagine when you solve a problem for a billionaire like this, the world is sort of your oyster from that point forward,” Holiday said.

Want more? Listen to the full interview with Holiday in Hour 2 of today’s show here:

This article provided courtesy of TheBlaze.

GLENN: Do the ends justify the means? Are there real white hats and black hats anymore? Can you actually be a white taking down a black hat?

If you've done them in nefarious ways, are you wearing a gray hat, or are you wearing a black hat?

There are so many things today that we would all like to see, you know, dishonest, bad media go away and collapse on its own weight. We might even cheer when something like gawker, which was a despicable website, when gawker went out of business and had to shut down, we might all cheer.

However, are we all comfortable with the idea that a billionaire can conspire and make that happen?

Even though, the end is good.

STU: Ryan Holiday is an author. He wrote a great book called Trust Me On Lying, which is a fantastic read, to go back and see how the news you see every day gets to you.

GLENN: Sausage.

STU: It's incredible.

GLENN: You'll find teeth and shoes in it.

STU: You have to read that. The new book is Conspiracy: Peter Thiel, Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and the Anatomy of Intrigue. And it's -- it brings us through this entire story, and Ryan joins us now.

GLENN: So, Ryan, can you tell this story like only you can? Tell this story before we get into what we're supposed to learn from it.

RYAN: Well, it's an almost unbelievable story. In 2007, Gawker Media, a gossip website in New York City, has a Silicon Valley arm called Valley Wag, and they out the Silicon Valley investor Peter Thiel as gay. He's at that point the founder of PayPal. He was an early investor in Facebook, but a relatively unknown person whose sexuality was known to his friends. But he was not publicly gay.

He's -- he's humiliated by this. He's frustrated by it. He's hurt. Gawker's headline, I believe, was Peter Thiel is Totally Gay, People. So imagine your most sensitive secret being made public in such a flippant way. And he finds this not to be illegal, but to be disgusting. And --

GLENN: Now, hang on just a second. Ryan, when this happens with gawker, is this -- because I find gawker despicable. They've done things to me and my family that are just despicable.

RYAN: Sure.

GLENN: But on this, people were saying, well, we should out people, because that's only going to make people more comfortable with -- you know, with gay people if they know you're around them all the time. So were they using the ends justify the means at that time to do something good, or are they just dirtbags?

RYAN: I think it's a little bit of both, right? I think they thought, why should he keep this secret? And I think they also thought, why should this be a jet? This isn't something to be ashamed of. But the truth is be with he didn't want it to be public. And I believe that's his prerogative.

GLENN: Yeah, it's his story to tell, not anybody else's.

RYAN: He sort of despairs of being able to do anything about it for five years. He just sort of sits on this. He's frustrated. He's hurt by it. But he can't do anything about it. And it's only in 2012, when Gawker makes another enemy, they run an illegally recorded sex tape of the professional wrestler, Hulk Hogan, that Thiel sees the opportunity that he's been looking for this whole time, that he had been looking for. He had hired a lawyer to spot opportunities like this.

He approaches Hulk Hogan, and he says, look, what they did to you is not only despicable, I think it's illegal both federally and in Florida, where you're a resident. I will fund this. Thiel approaches him through an intermediary. This is totally in secret.

I will fund this case as far as you're willing to take it. And he approaches a number of other people in similar cases. And then for the next four years, this case winds its way through the legal system. And he eventually wins 140 million-dollar bankruptcy-inducing verdict against Gawker in Florida, to the shock of all onlookers and legal strategists at the time. And he achieves that thing that he had set out to do in 2007, which was to both get his revenge and to prevent this -- this website that he believes to be evil, from doing what it did to people.

GLENN: So --

STU: Wow.

GLENN: -- I know Peter -- he is a very, generally quiet guy. You know, he's -- he's an odd duck.

RYAN: Sure.

GLENN: He's a really nice guy. Doesn't seem like a guy who is driven by vengeance. But does sound like a guy -- or feels like a guy who will take all the time necessary in the world. He is not in any hurry. He'll wait until it's right.

RYAN: Well, that's what's so brilliant about what he did. I think most of us, when something is done to us, we react. We respond. Right? A fight breaks out.

A conspiracy, to me, is more something that bruise, that develops. And that's what it was so brilliant about Peter. He didn't -- he said, look, what they did to me I don't think was right. And I'm angry about it. But it's never good to be driven by anger. And so, instead, he steps back. He never forgot what happened. But he looked for an opportunity, where he actually had legal -- legal ground to stand on, where he actually could have an impact. Where the public would be so universally repulsed by what these people did, that he would have a shot at making a difference. So I think both that patience and that ability to be strategic, is why he was able to solve a problem, if that's what you want to call it. That many other powerful people had looked at, and said basically, there's nothing you can do about this.

GLENN: But he didn't do -- did he become the thing that he despised?

I don't get the impression that he did. He -- he did this on the up-and-up. The only thing -- the reason why it's a conspiracy is, he didn't want to be out front. But now that it's known -- he doesn't mind. I mean, he's owning it now.

RYAN: Sure. Look, I think secrecy is a fundamental element of a conspiracy. And I respect that he was willing to see that the optics of a billionaire being publicly in front of this thing completely changes how the public would look at it. You know, he said to me, he got this advice from one of his friends. His friends said, Peter, you have to choose your enemies carefully because you become just like them. So that's really the danger of spending nine years scheming to destroy or ruin someone or something, is that you study them so much, they consume so much of your mental bandwidth, that you can kind of become like them.

I don't think that he became anything like Gawker. But, for instance, there's a seminal moment in jury selection, where they notice that overweight female jurors are the most sympathetic to their case. Now, that's not disgusting. But there is an element of unpleasantness in selecting a juror to then exploit their most vulnerable body issue to win a case --

GLENN: But don't you think -- that's done in the court system every day of the week.

RYAN: Agreed. My point is, I think we -- we tend to be idealists about change.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

RYAN: We think that we can make change without getting our hands dirty or without dealing with some of this unpleasantness.

GLENN: Yes.

RYAN: And so there's compromises of pursuing something of this magnitude. And I think Peter was so committed to what he was doing, that he felt that that end did justify -- that means did justify the end.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: So Ryan has spent a lot of time with Peter Thiel. Peter Thiel -- this is not an anti-Peter Thiel book. Peter worked side by side. He had unprecedented access to Peter. And while Peter didn't -- I don't think, Ryan, unless there's another conspiracy theory. He didn't fund this book. He just gave access. More with Ryan Holiday.

The book is Conspiracy. And there's some tough questions that we have to ask ourselves. More in a minute.

GLENN: We're with Ryan Holiday, he's the author of a book called Conspiracy: Peter Thiel, Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and the Anatomy of Intrigue. It's a very tough question that we have to tackle, but I want to get a couple more facts out of the way here before we do with Ryan.

STU: Ryan, a couple of things that we picked up from the book, one thing that Peter had conversations about his strategy, trying to get Gawker to go away.

RYAN: Uh-huh.

STU: They discussed at least seemingly -- he comes off a little flippantly, but at least considered doing things actually illegal when it comes to the approach.

GLENN: Yeah. What was the -- what was the example, Stu?

STU: Well, I'm sure -- I'm sure Ryan can walk us through the examples. I don't have them in front of me.

RYAN: Sure.

GLENN: Go ahead, Ryan.

RYAN: Sure. It struck me as a little bit of a tempest in a teapot by the media coverage. Because it's like getting in trouble for thinking about speeding and then not speeding.

GLENN: Yeah.

RYAN: But, you know, if you think about Thiel's position, he finds Gawker to be this great evil. He's trying to do something about it. But as a billionaire, he has essentially limitless resources. He's also the majority owner of one of the most powerful in intelligence and defense companies on the planet. So he has these immense resources.

And so it's a question then of, which of them is he going to use and what limitations is he going to impose on himself?

So theoretically, could he hire private detectives to follow Gawker writers and attempt to find dirt on them, that would be embarrassing? Could he start a rival website that would focus, but nothing on their personal lives? Could he bribe employees to leak information to him? Could he -- could he lobby politicians to go after them?

Like there's many things that he could do. But what he decides, actually, early on, after sort of laying all these options on the table, is that he -- that he wants only to do what's legal and ethical, because he's -- he's both, I think an ethical and moral person. But also, because at some point, your involvement is made public. At some point, you win.

And then the public looks at what you did, and they judge you for this. Right?

And so his belief was that, if they accomplished this thing they were trying to accomplish with unethical or illegal means, the victory would stand. And it would also be, as we were talking about earlier, it would be pyrrhic, in that it would come at a great cost to himself because he would have had to become the thing that he was trying to change in the first place.

GLENN: I have to tell you, this is kind of being spun as an anti-Peter Thiel book, and just that alone speaks volumes. I don't know how many billionaires there are that would have the self-control that he had, to say, no, I want to do it -- I want to do it the right way.

Can you tell me anything -- because you have an exclusive in this about a guy named Mr. A. I know you're not going to tell me who. But what is Mr. A's role?

RYAN: Well, that's -- it's one of the weirdest twits of this story, this incredibly well-covered story.

I think people thought, I guess myself included, felt like Peter Thiel was involved on a day-to-day basis. And, in fact, he sort of follows the start-up model, which is, in 2011, he has -- he has dinner with this promising young college graduate, who has told Peter he has an idea. They sit down to dinner.

And this kid says, Peter, I think I can solve your Gawker problem. I think that buried in their archive of posts are illegal acts or acts that make them vulnerable to -- to civil judgments. And I think -- he says, if you give me $10 million and three to five years of time, I think I can make something happen here. And basically, on the spot, Peter invests in this kid. And this kid is Peter's go-between, his operative who hires the attorneys, who vets the cases, who makes the decisions day-to-day. And Peter is -- is -- and the way that Peter puts $500,000 in Mark Zuckerberg's hands and he goes and makes Facebook, Mr. A goes and makes this conspiracy a reality.

STU: Wow.

GLENN: So what do you think Mr. A is going to be doing now?

RYAN: Well, I would imagine when you solve a problem for a billionaire like this, your world is sort of your oyster from that point forward. I think he's got basically limitless options now. And has one patron who is probably willing to back him on any project under any condition.

GLENN: Holy cow.

STU: Wow. What was Peter's motivation in cooperating with you, Ryan, on this book?

RYAN: Well, as I'm sure you guys have seen, in the coverage just talking to me. This is a story that has been intensely covered, but with such bias and such sort of tribal instincts on behalf of the media. Because the media sees what happens to Gawker. And they think, oh, that could happen to us. Let's circle the wagon. So there's been this incredible amount of judgment about what's happened.

And I think that's greatly impacted the coverage, right? To such a degree, that Peter has become, in many people's eyes, this sort of James Bond villain. And that's really not what he is, when you read him and you see what he did and why he did it. So I think -- I had written critically about Gawker many times. You know, myself. My emails were once hacked and leaked to Gawker. So I know what that feeling is like. So I was willing to at least be fair. You know, I told Peter, look, you're not going to get to see the book before it's printed. You're not going to have any input on it. I'm going to play it down the middle, but I think he at least believed that I would play it down the middle, rather than holding him up as the villain, if that wasn't true.

GLENN: Yeah. So, Ryan, there's -- if -- I'm just trying to think this through. If a billionaire -- let's say George Soros, who is not a friend of mine. If he decided to go after me and I was doing something -- and TheBlaze was doing something that was blatantly illegal. And I don't mean death by a million paper cuts, what a billionaire could do.

RYAN: Sure.

GLENN: I don't think I would have sympathy for Peter, if he had just been paper cut after paper cut, technicality after technicality, just keep him in court and bleed them dry.

RYAN: Right.

GLENN: I don't think this is a problem for the First Amendment, if they're going after things that are really, truly illegal and they're big.

And I'd like to get your response on that when we come back. What does this mean for the First Amendment? That a billionaire can mark somebody and then take them out? Is that good for the republic? When we come back.

GLENN: I am -- I'm currently on a -- on a couple-week rant of, we've got to do something, and how that always leads to bad things. You just don't make good decisions when you're angry, upset, emotionally. We've got to do something usually also means, I'll violate my principles because I want this pain to stop.

So what are our principles? I -- I don't -- I didn't like Gawker. Gawker did some things that were dangerous for my family. I thought they were despicable people. And I did wish them to go out of business. But I wouldn't have done anything to get them to go out of business. And I like the way Peter Thiel did this. He waited to see, is there something that they have done that breaks the law? When they had Hulk Hogan, that was an illegally recorded tape. And for what? What was the purpose of exposing that?

So Peter took them to court on that. The problem is, he's a billionaire, has unlimited resources. And are we setting a precedent that somebody who has an axe to grind can put another company out of business? One man can put a media company out of business if they want to?

Are we -- did anybody learn that lesson in a negative way? Ryan is with us.

Ryan Holiday is the author of the book Conspiracy: Peter Thiel, Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and the Anatomy of Intrigue.

What have you come to, Ryan, on that?

RYAN: Well, that is the big question. And it is potentially scary to think a billionaire could shut a media outlet down? And then when you step back, you know, your point about not reacting emotionally, well, did Peter actually do anything new that doesn't happen every day, anyway, right? The ACLU. The Sierra club. The NRA. They back cases all the time that they think move their ideology forward or stands up for one of their constituents. And so the idea of a wealthy person backing a lawsuit, not out of financial gain, but out of ideological alignment is actually not remotely new. And if you were to ban it, society would undoubtedly become a worse place, right?

Why shouldn't your rich uncle be able to support you against a person who ran into you, with their truck, right? You want that.

GLENN: So there's the legal question, which I think he did everything right. And then there's the ethical question, which I think he did everything right.

But you have to ask that ethical question too. And would you have felt different if he would have taken Gawker on, with -- with almost frivolous lawsuits and just done death by 1,000 paper cuts? Do you think it would have been a different story for you?

RYAN: Absolutely. Because there you're not attempting to win. You're not attempting to have your argument validated. You're attempting to destroy someone for something they may not have done something wrong.

So Peter's decision, for instance, not even an attack on First Amendment grounds because he believes that's sacred. But to look instead at the individual's right to privacy, right? Is there a newsworthiness in this sex tape, or is there a copyright claim here? He specifically did not sue them on say frivolous, libel, or defamation grounds because he was worried about the precedent that it might set. And he didn't believe that there was anything wrong there.

So his distinction is really, really important. And I think, you know, a potential hypothetical would be, what if a liberal had backed Shirley Sherrod in her lawsuit against Breitbart, when they ran that deliberately edited, manipulative tape of her in I believe it was 2011.

GLENN: Yes.

RYAN: And I don't think many of the people who are deeply upset about what happened to Gawker, I don't think they would be upset if Breitbart had gone out of business in 2012. I think they would be cheering at the exact same way.

STU: It's very interesting. Yes, that's absolutely true. I wanted to get your take quickly on -- I can't remember the guy's name who actually wrote the story.

But he -- he's become somewhat of a cause celeb on the left of a guy -- because he's not the guy -- he's not Nick Denton who ran Gawker. But the guy who actually just did the post.

He's a lowly --

Yes. Yes. Just -- you know, a writer. And he's working for Gawker. Not making a ton of money. And he was involved in this lawsuit. And he has been presented as this guy who got in the middle of this thing. And he was helpless in this situation. And now he has no chance of making any money. He owes an ungodly amount of money for this lawsuit and can't do anything about it. He wasn't wealthy. He didn't own Gawker. Do you have any perspective on that and how that went down?

RYAN: Yeah. So in a way, he's just doing his job. Gawker publishes these stories all the time. It's so unremarkable when you get to the Hulk Hogan tape, that Nick Denton, the CEO isn't even notified, right? The case that bankrupts the company, the CEO doesn't know about it until after it is published. Because that's how run-of-the-mill it actually was.

So, yes, it was unfortunate that this individual, this writer doing his job, takes the full brunt of it in the public eye. You know, during the trial. And then is held liable -- the jury says -- holds him personally liable for about $100,000 of this 140 million-dollar judgment. But what people forget is that months after the verdict, Peter and Hulk Hogan settle with Gawker that releases both Denton and Daulerio from these individual claims. And they're able to walk free.

You know, they were not necessarily ruined by it. And Peter said, look, my goal was to destroy Gawker, not to ruin these people personally. But individuals are held accountable for their actions.

GLENN: Yeah.

RYAN: And that's life.

GLENN: I mean, we all have choices, no matter if everybody else is doing it. We still have a choice.

You know, I'm so intrigued by Peter. I think he is a real force for good. And I think he's a deep and thoughtful man, that doesn't make everything that he -- everything that he does right or good. But he really seems to think about things.

RYAN: Yes.

GLENN: And I heard him say once, it's not that I think I'm right, I'm not even sure if I'm right, I just don't think other people are even thinking about these things. What does that tell you about him?

RYAN: He would say that even about this case. That it's often not that he was right and other people were wrong. It's that Gawker wasn't even -- Gawker just assumed that this Hulk Hogan case would get settled. They weren't even taking it seriously. And so Peter is a person who has theories about the world. And he's willing to put some skin in the game. Right? He's willing to throw some weight behind them and see what happens. And I think -- to me, the lesson of what happened, and what I tried to write about in the book, is that, you can fundamentally disagree with what Peter did, and you can think that it's dangerous and alarming that Gawker doesn't exist anymore. But there is something to study, a lesson to learn, about how this guy did it. And why he did it.

And how he was able to effectuate the change that he needed to happen, outside of writing op-eds or putting out a petition. You know, he -- he made real change in the real world, where other people said, there was nothing you could do about it. And to me, that's a lesson that -- and in some ways, that's an inspiring things right now, in this society, where we're stuck, you know, on both sides of the aisle. I think we just feel like change can't happen. And here, a guy made something happen.

GLENN: Yeah. When -- I saw that in the book that -- that phrase.

I -- I thought to myself, that is something that the world is not even rewarding now. It doesn't reward you to think. It doesn't reward you to think outside of the box and to think differently. And it doesn't reward you to say, I'm not sure if I'm right. I just want us to think about that. And that's really what we're missing.

RYAN: And the irony is that in some ways, Gawker was part of that problem, right? I think one of Thiel's objections to them is not just the despicable things that they did and the violations of privacy, but as the site that just sort of made fun of everyone for every mistake, every failure, every personal idiosyncrasy.

They were dis-incentivizing people from thinking outside the box, from being weird. And weirdness is where innovation comes from and creativity. And we should want people to take risks and turn out to be wrong. What we don't want to do is mercilessly mock them, to the point where nobody tries anything because they don't want to end up on the front page of Gawker.com or any website.

GLENN: Ryan Holiday, thank you very much.

RYAN: Thanks for having me.

(music)

STU: I think we sold you on that story.

GLENN: Good story.

STU: Ryan tells it well.

GLENN: Good book.

STU: And there's a lot in here that's not previously been reported on.

Conspiracy: Peter Thiel, Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and the Anatomy of Intrigue by Ryan Holiday. Also, we should have Ryan back on for Trust Me On Lying.

GLENN: For Trust Me. Yeah. He is a guy who has had firsthand experience, really, with fake news. I mean, it was really kind of his job as a PR person.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: And he knows how it works. And it's really fascinating.

STU: Yeah. Quickly on it, the concept in that book was that he -- you know those weird stories that bubble up to the national media. And you're like, how did we even hear about that?

It was his job to try to get them elevated from -- from a blog to a local media, to regional media, to national media, to try to get attention for clients and all sorts of stuff. So he was in the media manipulation business for a long time.

GLENN: And, you know what, it goes to -- remember the first thing that I said when we went to CNN and I said, I'm really uncomfortable with this. The ingesting of news.

STU: Oh, yeah.

GLENN: Because if you make one mistake, that is your basis forever.

STU: Uh-huh.

GLENN: And it's interesting. Because what he did was, it was on a blog. And then he would call the local news and say, did you see this? Did you see this blog?

STU: Did you see this blog?

GLENN: And they would use that as a credible source. And then he'd go to the regional news and said, did you see this in the newspaper? And it got more incredible as it went on.

STU: Yeah.

RADIO

Comedian gives 3 TIPS to survive YOUR family on Thanksgiving

Comedian Jamie Kilstein — a self-described ‘piranha’ on both sides of the political aisle — joins Glenn to dissect exactly how YOU can handle those awkward, news-related discussions around the table on Thanksgiving. In this clip, Kilstein provides four of his top tips that will help your survive the holidays with your favorite, liberal relatives…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Jamie Kilstein he is with us. He's a comedian, and the host of Advice Not Taken.

He's a guy who we probably would have really hated each other years ago, and now it's just simple dislike.

And Jamie is here. He is -- he was a guy who was way on the left. In fact, I want to read something from July 2019. A few weeks ago, this fragile Jew flew to Texas to meet his girlfriend's very conservative mom and dad.

You're writing out a list of people who wouldn't like me, it would read conservatives, Christian gun owners, oilmen, and Justin Timberlake.

Mainly because I've had several public conversations with Noam Chomsky. The Bible scares me more than pet cemetery. I also felt I would accidentally kill myself if I ever owned a gun. I drive a Prius, and I really don't trust Justin Timberlake.

So he's gone from this, to let me just say, as I welcome Jamie Kilstein on, congratulations on your baptism a couple years ago.

JAMIE: Oh, man. And -- and I bought a gun, and I'm still alive.

STU: Wait. What's the current status with Justin Timberlake?

Do we have any update on that?

JAMIE: I'll find him one day. He knows what's up.

GLENN: All right. No. Seriously, I had some really nice notes from you, the last couple of weeks. I really wish I could have been invited to your baptism.

But I'm so happy for you.

Now --

JAMIE: Well, man, and I really do -- I'll say this publicly. Where part of my shift -- you know there's this -- I wasn't planning on talking about this. There was this dangerous thing that happened, especially on Twitter. Although, maybe not anymore, if Twitter goes down. Where anyone who has any change of political beliefs, is automatically called a grifter. And I almost want to write a piece called defending grifting. Where for me, I -- I have had plenty of opportunities, to -- to do that. To pretend I was conservative. To be the -- you know the former woke guy. And to profit off of it.

And I was never interested in doing this heel turn just for my career. The reason that I have become more conservative, and that I have -- and you know that I did find Jesus after. I mean, I opened for Richard Dawkins back in the day. It wasn't because I was like, I need to make a career pivot. It was because, when I made -- that's what you do for Jesus.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

Because it's so very popular right now. Yeah.

RICHARD: Yeah. Once the Chosen took off. I was like, this is my path. But the -- by the way, I'm going to see the premiere today.

GLENN: Yeah, me too.

RICHARD: But I met. It was meeting guys like you. Meeting guys like Tim Kennedy. Becoming legitimately friends with people who were conservative, who also I go, man, this is the kind of person I want to be. This is the kind of dad I want to be. This is the kind of husband I want to be. This is the kind of conversations I want to have.

And so what happened, I go, well, if I admire these men as men. Then maybe I should take a step and look at these things that I thought I would hate them for that they believe. And ask them why they believe it. And then it just sort of all started happening.

So it was the opposite of what we do on Twitter.

Ask what I used to do. Instead of looking at someone's political beliefs and their tweets. And judging them by that. I looked at them as a person. As a human. And then if I respected them as a human. I said, yeah. How did you get to this belief? And it just opened my eyes.

GLENN: Yeah. That's crazy. I don't know why anyone would talk to somebody.

So, Jamie, you were -- in 2019, you were -- you know the pariah, at the holiday table.

JAMIE: Yeah.

GLENN: Now, if I remember right, you're -- your father was a fundraiser for Hillary Clinton, and your mom, I think bought your first pack of cigarettes.

So --

JAMIE: My dad definitely wasn't a fundraiser. But they're very liberal. My mom certainly bought me my first pack of cigarettes.

And I believe it was for Christmas. And it was from Santa. I feel like, when you become 40 years old, and you're like, you know, I've spent years being like, man, I have a cool mom. And as you get older, you're like, was she just an alcoholic? Everybody's mom lights their cigarettes on the stove, right?

So, yeah. There's a lot -- a lot of -- I'm learning.

GLENN: Okay.

JAMIE: But, yeah. They're liberal. What's funny, I've always been a pariah, because I was too left for my family, and for a lot of my friends. I was too liberal. And then now I'm very too conservative. But I figured out ways to talk to people, who I disagree with.

GLENN: Okay.

JAMIE: And I think -- that's what I -- I just wrote about it. I started a Substack. And I wrote about tips to essentially not kill your family over Thanksgiving.

GLENN: Yeah. This is a big one.

There's a lot going on. The Hunter Biden laptop. The change of Congress.

The election.

JAMIE: Yes. And that's exactly -- it was bad enough, before we knew about Hunter Biden's laptop. It's hard enough to go to your family. And explaining why you don't have kids yet.

Let alone, now I need to have talking points, on gender assignment therapies. Or how I have an opinion on -- like Substack.

It's so hard.

Romda, who is this great spiritual guy, who I -- I -- I loved. He had this great quote. He's literally one of the most spiritual people who has ever lived. He has this quote that says, if you think you're enlightened, go spend two weeks with your family. And like, there is -- it was already hard. But like, our forefathers did not see us arguing about Libs of TikTok over Thanksgiving.

You know what I mean?

GLENN: Yes.

RICHARD: So it's -- you can't go into it, prepared for battle. You have to remember, it is your family. You want this holiday to be good.

And I feel like, people are already sort of memorizing their talking points.

I used to do that. I was the insufferable person, sent to ruin November through December. It's like, oh, if my dad was praying for a Jewish holiday, I would have to remind him about how I --

GLENN: Oh, my gosh.

RICHARD: Well, I have a rant about Jesus and capitalism. Dude, I was like a step away from, is leaving cookies for Santa fat shaming? Like, it was so bad. It was so bad. And so like, I'm not -- I'm not judging. Like my new friend Jesus, we are not here to judge.

GLENN: Right.

JAMIE: But I really do think there are things that you can do. So I wrote three things.

GLENN: Okay. What are them?

JAMIE: So the first one, you have to find things you can all agree on. So, for example, and I've done this so many times. All politicians suck. You open with that. You don't open with, your team is bad. You open up with, hey, man. I'm not a fan of a lot of democratic politicians. I'm going to agree with some of their stances. But I think that it's just so much more honest, if I'm representing liberals.

Yeah, man, Biden is not doing great. Because now they know, I'm not a liar. I think that conservatives --

GLENN: So wouldn't tip number one actually be don't lie?

JAMIE: It would be don't lie. We don't do that. Because we are trained by social media, to be like, I have to defend my team, no matter what -- do you know how many Republicans were just white knuckling it, defending certain things Trump said, or how many liberals are doing the exact same thing with Biden?

I mean, guys, how many people were doing that just the other day, with his speech? Where they were like, this is what I have to defend?

Okay. Yeah. I guess execute drug dealers.

They don't -- and if you can admit, if you can admit when your side is wrong, the other person is going to start seeing you as someone who wants to make the world better. And fix the system. And not someone who just wants to attack them, for who you voted for. Right?

We can all agree Nancy Pelosi is a ghoul, we can start there. And then move on.

GLENN: Tip number two.

JAMIE: Number two. If all of your relatives can do is shout things they heard on Rachel Maddow or Tucker Carlson, maybe their life is kind of rough, and we should actually feel compassion for them. Right? Like, if someone at your table refuses to leave until they win an argument about January 6, you kind of already won. Right?

When all I could do was argue about politics, Glenn, I was so depressed. I was so miserable. I was in a crumbling relationship. The only thing that made me feel good is this illusion that I was doing something, by yelling at people on Twitter. But in reality, like, I was suffering.

And so I think, if you have a family member, who was glued to their phone all day, angrily sharing political memes. You shouldn't be like, oh, I can't believe I could slam that guy at Thanksgiving.

Don't give him more ammo by fighting with him. You need to give that person a hug. You need to talk about anything but politics, and connect with them. And honestly, make sure they're okay.

GLENN: Holy cow.

JAMIE: And we can all check ourselves on that. When I got back on to Twitter, I just go, what am I projecting? What am I hiding from?

And oftentimes, it's just something I'm not taking care of within me, so I just have to make it about Washington.

GLENN: I am -- you're preaching. I mean, I'm about to shout amen. This is an actual beginning of a conversion here. Because these are all Jesus tips.

JAMIE: Right. Right.

GLENN: You know. Kind of got the --

JAMIE: I didn't think about that.

GLENN: There's -- there's nine others.

But you have the, don't lie and love one another. Just have compassion for one another.

What's the third one? Is it about false idols?

JAMIE: Right. The third one is storm the Capitol.
(laughter)

The third one is -- okay. So this one is going to sound rough at first. So stay with me. The third one is hold hands and watch the world burn. And here's what I mean by that. I'm not a fan of apathy. But when you think about what your family, on Thanksgiving and Christmas, what are you doing in that moment to change the world, as you're screaming?

Right?

You guys are arguing with each other, like you're making your case in front of the UN. But is your uncle on the Supreme Court? No.

Did anybody in the family pass the laws you're mad about? Do you even know how laws get passed? Right. Probably not.

In that moment, there's literally nothing your family can do to change the system. So maybe we don't let these jerks in Washington, ruin one more good thing, by tearing our family apart. Right?

So here's how you can inspire your family member who thinks differently than you to be more like you.

It's not screaming at them, like an unhinged CNN pundit whose ratings are in the trash.

It's be a good ambassador for your side. Right? So instead of throwing a fit about who your sister voted for, why not be so cool, that people want to be like you? Be so kind and generous that others start to wonder who you voted for, without you even having to tell them. Right?

When you see someone. Again, myself included. Screaming about something.

Even cross fit. You have to do cross fit. You must. Why?

So you can be miserable like me. My lower back hurts all the time. If they're screaming at you, they're projecting. So, Glenn, back to the baptism thing. Going to an atheist, to finding Jesus at 40. The reason why I haven't written a piece called, if you don't go to church, you're garbage. Because for the first time in my life. I feel like I have nothing to prove to anyone.

Right? Like, I don't need to project that, like I did with my old liberal talking points. People respect how I treat others, and they're curious about why, I will tell them. And they can tell because I'm actually happy, right? So if you're the only conservative at the dinner table. The best thing you can do is be kind. Ask questions. Be open-minded.

Use phrases like, I never looked at it that way. Do not bring up Alex Jones. Like if you're a responsible gun owner, talk about things you would do to prevent mass shootings, instead of shouting, come and take them. Like, all you have to do is through your actions, be kind.

And make people want to know how you think politically. Because you didn't -- like I did with you. Man. The first time I met.

Well, that guy is nothing like I thought he would be. So now I want to learn more about him. And like, you can be that person, for your family. That actually destroys all the stereotypes that people have about Libertarians or whatever.

GLENN: So here we are, getting ready. The last break before my Thanksgiving break. And I am truly grateful for this very funny and very enlightening segment. Jamie, I'm so happy for you.

You've got -- you've got all kinds of stuff ahead of you. It's all good.

He's the host of the podcast, Advice Not Taken. I would suggest, that maybe some of this advice, we all take on all sides of you know politics. Jamie Kilstein. Thank you so much. God bless you.

JAMIE: Thank you, God bless you too. See you soon.

GLENN: You bet.

TV

This dad LOST CUSTODY thanks to today’s GENDER WAR

Jeff Younger’s son, James, began learning from his mother at age two that he actually is a girl. And that’s when Jeff’s battle to save his sons — James and his twin brother, Jude — began. The boys are now ten, living with their mother in California, and Jeff hasn’t been able to see them in over a year. He joins Glenn to share his entire story, and then Glenn asks a panel of legal experts how other parents could prevent similar nightmares moving forward.

RADIO

4 possible reasons Trump is running & 1 Glenn thinks is true

Why is President Donald Trump running for the White House in 2024? In this clip, Glenn reads from a Politico article which tells about 4 former presidents who made new attempts at the presidency before. Those four were motivated by four different reasons: power, boredom, regret, and spite. But Glenn believes there’s a fifth motivation that’s more likely the one for Donald Trump. Listen to the clip to find out what that motivation may be…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I want to tell you the story, from the four presidents, who have tried this before.

Politico has a great article by Joshua Zeitz. And he writes about these four presidents, who have run, only one has won.

And they all have really good lessons in them. I'll share that with you, coming up in just a second.

Cynthia wrote in about her dog's experience with Ruff Greens. She said, I have two small breed dogs, who have digestive issues.

I've tried numerous brands of food, and I tried to be selective in the types of treats they receive, but not much helps. However, they just started using Ruff Greens. I started putting it in over their food. And I observed much less tummy distress.

Are we talking about dog farts? Because they can be the worst.

They obviously love it. Because they look at me, imploringly, until I pull out the Ruff Greens bag. Thank you. Thank you so much for Ruff Greens.

Well, Cynthia, as someone who has had a dog fart problem, you know in the house, once in a while, and had to resort, because big dogs to bandanas for our face, a couple of days. I understand it. I understand it.

Ruff Greens. I understand why it's working for your dogs.

They're so confident, that your dog will love it. They have a special deal for you. RuffGreens.com/Beck. They'll give you your first bag free, free. All you pay for is shipping. Just go to RuffGreens.com/Beck. Or 833-Glenn-33. That's 833-G-L-E-N-N-33.

Ten-second station ID.
(music)
Okay. There are people that have made multiple -- multiple attempts, multiple tries, at the presidency.

And have failed. Then there's people like Joe Biden who have been running for president, I think since 1916, maybe.

STU: It was not the 1916 race. But he got into 1916, for a later race. 1924. I think he was running for eight good years for that one. Which he then lost. And then he plagiarized someone else's speech.

GLENN: But it was Calvin Coolidge. Didn't have the internet then.

Anyway, Politico writes, whatever -- whether Trump succeeds may depend on his own motivation in running. Will he do it for power?
Out of boredom or regret? Or simply despite the naysayers? The wounded president egos of the past might be a window into the mind of the most polarizing politician of our time. So they go into these four presidents.

And it's important to remember, is he going to do it out of power. Out of boredom. Out of regret.

Or spite.

So 1840. Presidential bid with Martin Van Buren. He ran again in 1848.

He lost the election. He was -- I think it was Jackson's vice president. And then he went on, after Jackson. Jackson said. You should be the president.

And he won the president. And then he lost his reelection bid. And it's interesting, because he was not -- he was a Democrat. And he was clearly for slavery.

And when he got into office, in 1837, there was a once in a lifetime financial panic.

And it triggered a really deep recession. He was now wildly unpopular. So he lost his bid. And then in 1844. Van Buren attempted a comeback. But listen to this. A fiercely contested Democratic Convention, instead nominated James Polk of Tennessee.

An ardent expansionist and proponent of slavery. Remember, it's just the Democratic Party.

Many Van Buren supporters would nurse a long grudge against Southern Democrats for thwarting his comeback. So he's going in, and he loses the bid for the Democrats. So he decides, that he is going to go with his son, who started a third party.

The barn burners. He was indifferent about slavery. And he didn't expect to win. What he was trying to do, was reorder the party. He was trying to use his power, to shift the party and still be the guy who is you know the power player.

He didn't -- he didn't -- he didn't win. In fact, the election went to Zachary Taylor. Because there was a third party.

And so the Wigs took it. And then we never heard from him again.

STU: Not a lot of people were indifferent on slavery, I feel like.

I feel like, that's one you take a position on, either way.

GLENN: I feel like that's a lot of people on abortion. I don't know.

STU: That's true. People look back, you didn't take a position of baby's dying.

GLENN: Wait. They were chopping them up. And you were fine with that.

STU: It was neutral.

Well, Switzerland on that one, huh?

GLENN: So Grover Cleveland was the next one. This is 1888. He's already been president. He's running for reelection.

But he's kind of. He doesn't really care.

STU: He's indifferent on his own presidency.

GLENN: He's indifferent on his own presidency. And so Benjamin Harrison won, and this -- this particular election is very much like what we're facing now. It was very, very close.

And you know you didn't have a lot of swing going one way or another.

So he retires and he goes to New York City. And he plays cribbage with his friends.

He goes to the theater, and he goes out to eat. And then goes out to eat some more. Eventually, he wastes 300 pounds.

STU: I like this guy. Oh, yeah.

GLENN: Then he would take fishing trips to Cape Cod. They would have a hard time with the boat.

Anyway, he has his first child. And he says, anyway, I feel like I just started to live.

So he goes, and starts to get nominated again.

Then he kind of loses interest again. I guess if we would just have put food at the end, he would have.

But he did win.

But he won, because of the tight electoral map. So during his -- the next one is Theodore Roosevelt. Theodore Roosevelt decides he's only going to run two terms. He really regrets that.

And he's like, yeah. Did I say -- I don't think I said that? What did I say?

STU: A lot of people get into power. They really regret that decision, don't they?

GLENN: Right. So he comes back from a year in Africa. You know just shooting animals. What a bastard.

And he's upset, that the conservative Republicans had taken back over.

They were like, yeah, I don't think this administrative state, is really what we should be for. And so he gets very upset about that, and tries to reverse the tide, to be a party of, you know, more like Mitch McConnell. And so the -- the Republicans decide, no, we're against the administrative state.

So he decides to start his own party. Bull Moose Party. He loses. But, again, he lets the progressive Democrat, Woodrow Wilson get in.

So what do we have here?

The last one is Hoover. And Hoover was a big progressive.

Huge progressive. You notice anything about these things?

He fought to win the Republican nomination after he left office.

He starts to come back. And he wants to come back, I don't know. 1940. And the -- the Republicans, this time. Decide, they want an even more progressive Republican. And so they get Wendell Wilke. And neither one of them win.

So the lesson here is Martin Van Buren's second run.

It was about regaining or retaining power. Not just the power of the presidency. But the lasting control of a movement and party that renders Trump, a defining on the world stage. I personally think he already has that. If he's like Grover Cleveland. And how many games of golf can I play?

And there's not enough all you can eat buffets, because I don't want to weigh 300 pounds.

Then it's his for the taking. Like 1892.

It probably, according to politico, has to do with regret. We know from recent reporting, that Trump and those in his orbit fault themselves for letting the judicial civil service at political class, thwart many of their ambitions.

They relish a second crack at it. And he might be you know a little upset, so -- or might be a little spite. But he won't win.

If it's spite.

I personally think, that it's none of these things.

Because I've talked to him. And in talking to him, he said something that was off camera. But very, very humble. Shockingly so.

And very heartfelt. When I talked to him. He said, I can't believe what they're doing to the country. I can't -- I mean, we had this. We had this. They were on the right track. And they have just destroyed it in less than two years. And he said with be this is the part that I think this is why he's running.

I can't live with myself. Seeing all the millions of faces that I have talked to. And I promised. I would fix it. And stand up for them. After they stood up for me. How am I going to sit down, and watch the country burn to the ground? When I know, I can help them.

When he said, last night, the most important line, this is not my campaign. This is our campaign. I think that's why he's running.

RADIO

Glenn: 6 leftist stories that may MAKE YOUR HEAD EXPLODE!

What better way to kick-off Glenn’s Thanksgiving vacation than with six stories that may make you HEAD EXPLODE?! In this clip, Glenn shares 6 recent, news stories — like the teacher union’s new pronoun guide, the UN complaining about Nigerians, and a new California program that pays people for being transgender — as part of a ‘clown news alert.’ Which one is the most absurd to YOU?!

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: We have a full-fledged clown alert. Clown alert going on. Stu, we don't have time for -- okay. So let's look at some of the stories today, that would have made my head explode, but I'm so far beyond that.

Here's a headline from Fox News. MSNBC anchor slammed for complaining House Democrats never investigating the Trump family.

I'm just saying. Well, look at the cute little car, and all the MSNBC people coming out. The, I guess it's maybe Hassan Show. Didn't do this. They didn't do this for the Trump family. Meti, which is -- I'm going to say ze, zer, which could be her or him.

I don't know. Nobody watches MSNBC. Isn't that weird? It's like this weird experiment. If we put all this money into producing something, and nobody watches it, how long can we do that?

It's a neat experience. CNN has been doing that one for a while. And that experiment is about to come to a conclusion. Anyway, be as mad as you like about House Republicans kicking off any day, one day after winning the House with a massive investigation to the Biden family. But ask yourself why Democrats didn't do this for the Trump family. Yeah.

Oh. Ask yourself on the day that Pelosi is retiring, by the way. Oh. Okay.

I've got a note from the teacher's union. It is a pronoun guide.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: This is why I knew about the pronouns for MSNBC. The national -- the National Education Association's pronoun guide, reviewed by the Washington Examiner, directs members on how to use various preferred pronouns to grow accustomed to include one's pronouns and name tags, while introducing one's self to colleagues. The pronoun guide says it's been made available for members of the teacher's union. And it is made to have staff better understand the use of pronouns, in a respectful way for all NEA meetings and communications. In English, this is according to the guide, in English, we have two sets of generated pronouns. She/her/hers. He/him/his. Oh, that is great. They're still teaching this stuff.

However, those are attached to a particular gender. Now, I didn't know that. Did you know that?

STU: A particular gender? Wow. No. I didn't know that.

GLENN: Like she/her/hers would go to somebody that would self-identify she's a woman.

STU: Right. That's the only way you would know she was a woman.

GLENN: Only way you would know. We all likely, this is according to the teachers union, all likely assume we knew someone's pronouns just by looking at them.

STU: Oh, that's so silly. What a silly concept.

GLENN: Okay. Knowing their gender. But that isn't the case. In an effort to be more affirming to all. It's important as teachers to get out of the habit of assuming pronouns. So they have a table graphic, that separates different pronouns from their respective case, to inform the reader how to use them in a sentence properly. The first three lines from the graphic provide a guide for he/she/they pronouns, but the final line is a guide for using ze/zim/zir/zirself.

STU: Zirself. I did not --

GLENN: Uh-huh, yeah. Which doesn't help identify anyone.

STU: No.

GLENN: You have absolutely.

STU: Does no good for communication whatsoever, which is what the language is supposed to do.

GLENN: Here's another headline for you.

The UN complains the world has too many Nigerians. And who doesn't think that there are too many Nigerians. I don't know. That sounds a little racist. But, no. No. The UN fits entirely in that one clown car.

Which is very nice. Here's a Democrat, that has said, well, she's a scientist. It's Sheila Jackson Lee.

STU: Oh, gosh. Brilliant.

GLENN: Yeah. She said, there's a direct connection to slavery and the pandemic. No, that's -- no, there's no clown horn there. This is serious. I'm sorry. I don't know how this got into the stack of clown news. This is a serious thing.

I believe -- and I can prove it to you. I believe there's a direct -- you know, the 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

It's like, except with slavery, it's only 1 degree. Give me anything. Give me anything.

STU: Water faucets.

GLENN: Water faucets. Easy. Did slaves drink water?

Direct link to slavery. Every water faucet company should be paying reparations. Next.

STU: Oatmeal.

GLENN: Please. Who is on the front of the oatmeal box?

The old lady man, Bush looking person. Colonial. Oppression. Slavery. Boom. And don't even get me started about breakfast cereals, foods. Pancakes.

Please. I think, you know. Next.

STU: Oh.

French baguette.

French baguette. You would think this one is hard. You would think that one would struggle to connect a French baguette.

STU: That's exactly what I was thinking. I was trying to come up with something specifically that was difficult to tie to slavery.

GLENN: No. This is very easy.

I told you earlier, that what his name? Pepé LePew. The guy who was on Hogan's Heroes. The French guy in the slave camp. I could take this apart 600 ways to Sunday.

First of all, what did white people do?

They built concentration camps. Then they did shows about concentration camps, with Hogan's Heroes.

Hogan's Heroes, they had one token black in that camp. One. Okay?

Token. Just like slaves. That man, in that show, who was on the show with a Frenchman. Who liked baguettes. Slavery.

STU: I -- I don't want to come up with another example.

GLENN: Because you don't want to be shown up.

STU: Sure. That's exactly what it is.

GLENN: Let me give you this one. Los Angeles county sheriff says the crash that injured 25 law enforcement recruits in southern Whittier, Wednesday morning, was not an accident.

Now, wait a minute. This is hard to believe in the first place. Someone would drive their car, intentionally, into a crowd of police recruits? In California?

No way. Well, shockingly, investigators went through an exhaustive interview process with everyone involved, with the video surveillance statements from the recruits. The physical evidence that they had, like I've got a broken leg. And what they got from the suspect themself. And they were able to form the opinion, that this was a deliberate act.

Now, they have no idea why. The driver was Nicholas Joseph Gutierrez. He's 22. He's charged with attempted murder of a peace officer. And other charges are pending.

But they gave him a bond of a ridiculous $2 million. And so he is -- well, he was also -- he had marijuana in the SUV. And he was intoxicated.

You know, but he drove directly into a group of 75 recruits.

And five of them are critically injured. Twenty-five of them were injured.

But they still have no motive. They still don't have any idea. And, of course, it was not politically or racially motivated.

Just want you to know that.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: We'll wait for details. I hope they figure that out.

STU: It's never -- it's never motivated that way.

GLENN: Well, the California police are on it. Okay?

STU: That's good to hear. California is on to a lot of things though. They have a great new program, we talked about it briefly yesterday, in San Francisco.

GLENN: Oh. Where you can -- if your gender --

STU: If you're transgendered, you can get on some sort of payroll with them --

STU: Yeah. And they'll pay you for being transgender.

$1,200 a month.

GLENN: My name is Betty, Stu! My name is now Betty.

STU: And if you happen to be a Glenn into a Betty, then you can get $1,200 a month, for the next 18 months.

GLENN: And you must admit, I'm the most beautiful woman I have ever seen.

STU: And you are, believe me. You sure are.

GLENN: Oh. You haven't seen me all dolled up.

STU: Now, it might seem like a ridiculous program to some. But I decided to go through the actual application, because I was interested.

GLENN: Right, and that's when you see how really serious and well thought out it is. Right?

STU: Right. Uh-huh. Now, there are some options. You have to go through the application.

Let me -- this is pronouns. Glenn, I'll go through these with you. You just have to check all that apply. So you might have eight or ten of these.

GLENN: All that apply. Okay. All that apply, not just one. Got it.

STU: She/her/hers. He/him/his/, they/them/theirs, it/it/its. Co/co/cos.

GLENN: Hmm?

STU: Co/co/cos.

GLENN: Hmm? Well, yeah. Of course.

STU: Zi, zim, zis.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: Ze, zer, zers. He/him/hirs. Hy/hym/hyrs.

GLENN: Wait. Wait. The ear one, I didn't -- and I feel a little bad. Because that makes me think of my ears, which I think are really bad. They're big. The earlobes are growing. It's the only part of the face and the nose that continue to grow. And thank you for pointing that out.

Now I'm really offended! I wish I had that power. You know in the Disney film? What was the one? Hercules?

I wish I -- remember when the guy could set his hair on fire. I wish I could do that.

Wouldn't that be great? Just -- so when you would say something like zirs, I would think ears. And you would know I'm pissed.

STU: By the way, I should point out, it's not ears. E-A-R-S, it's e --

GLENN: I didn't say it was. I said, it made me think of that. That's my truth, Stu.

STU: I'm sorry. That is your truth.

Or ma'am, or she. I don't know which one to say.

How about per/per/pers?

GLENN: Yes.

STU: Fey/fair/fairs. Ay/ay/ayrs. Tay/tare/tares.

GLENN: I like the way you say that.

STU: Va/var/vars. No pronouns.

GLENN: Oh, no. That one doesn't apply to me.

STU: That one doesn't apply to you.
So this is the guaranteed income for the transgendered people program.

GLENN: Okay. So if I identify as any or all of those, do I get more money from the state, if I identify as all of those?

STU: That's a good question. I don't know the answer to that.

GLENN: Do they investigate to see if I'm really --

STU: Definitely not.

Because how would you? These words don't mean anything?

GLENN: Do I have to live in California to get their taxpayer money?

STU: Yes. San Francisco. This is from the city of San Francisco. The guaranteed income for transgendered people, or gift, which is interesting.

Because it doesn't spell. It's gift. In reality it's GIFTP.

GLENN: Guaranteed income for transgender people. Okay.

STU: And they call it GIFTP. The GIFTP program, here are some things -- now, it goes to gender. There are several genders available, Glenn. For you to choose. I guess you could choose any or all of these. Let me give you some example. Gender creative.

GLENN: Well, that's me. I'm very creative.

STU: Gender outlaw.

GLENN: Yes. I live in the West.

STU: How about gray gender.

GLENN: Well, look at my hair.

STU: I don't know it means you're older. That guy kind of -- it's a gray area.

GLENN: Either works for me, works for me, Your Honor.

STU: Brother boy. Is that your gender, or would you consider yourself a brother boy?

GLENN: I would say, because we're in a transition as a society.

STU: Right.

GLENN: I would still say there's a chance brother boy might be misinterpreted. So I'm going to say no.

STU: That's a good point, considering the context of earlier conversation today.

Sister girl.

GLENN: Sister girl. I am absolutely -- look at me. Betty, I'm a sister girl.

STU: Now, when I look at you, what I see, mavericke.

Mavericke. It's like a fancy Tom Cruise. A mavericke.

GLENN: Oh, I like that.

STU: That's kind of you.

GLENN: I am. I'm a maverick. No, I'm a mavericke.

STU: I like that. How about this one. These are all real genders on the checklist. I'm not making these up.

GLENN: Okay. So if I identify as a mavericke. And you would say, yes, sir. You are a mavericke. And I would say, you bet. Give me my cash. Okay.

STU: How about stud?

GLENN: No.

STU: That's the one gender you're not.

GLENN: No. No.

STU: How about -- this is a real gender.

GLENN: Of course, it is.

STU: FTX. You can now identify as a failed cryptocurrency exchange. Which is --

GLENN: I think that one is an important gender that you mock right now. And now where is my horn. Thank you. Now you can do the other.

STU: She already did the other.

GLENN: No. Do it now.

STU: She already did it.

GLENN: We can edit it in post production. Do the damn -- that wasn't the same one. That's not the one I wanted.