When IRS investigator-turned-whistleblower Gary Shapley accused the IRS of covering up Hunter Biden’s tax crimes, he knew the path forward wouldn’t be easy. While he says he has “no regrets,” he joins Glenn to explain why he and his fellow whistleblower Joseph Ziegler filed a $20 million defamation lawsuit against Hunter Biden’s attorney, Abbe Lowell, for defamation. Shapley is joined by Empower Oversight President, who has worked to protect whistleblowers.
Transcript
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: So for people who think maybe bad guys don't ever pay for their crimes.
Good guys never win. You remember the IRS whistle-blowers, that blew the whistle on Hunter Biden's tax crimes. These are the guys, who said, wait. There's something going on. We were told not to look into it. They slow walked it, et cetera, et cetera.
Well, they were smeared and really destroyed. And one of the guys is -- is pretty amazing.
He's -- he's known throughout the world. This is an IRS agent. Known throughout the world for his work on global tax enforcement. He was selected to create a new international organization called the Joint Chiefs of Global Tax Enforcement.
He's a supervisory special agent of the International Tax and Financial Crimes Group.
Where he leads 12 elite special agents who are subject matter experts in complex international tax and other related financial crimes.
The guy has -- I mean, he started his career as AmeriCorps volunteer. That he went to work for the Defense Department. Then Intel. Then he joined the IRS and criminal investigations. He's out to get the bad guys. He joins us now.
Welcome, Gary Shapley. How are you?
GARY: Very good. Thanks for having me, Glenn. I appreciate it.
GLENN: Oh, yeah. Thank you for your courage. For speaking out. Thank you for doing the right thing.
I also want to bring in Tristan Leavitt. Tristan is a guy who worked with Chuck Grassley, trying to help all the whistle-blowers.
He helped expose Operation Fast and Furious.
And a lot of different things. And is really strong on protecting the whistle-blowers. They are so important.
Tristan, welcome.
TRISTAN: Thank you so much, Glenn.
GLENN: So where do we start, Gary, because you are now suing Hunter Biden, and you are suing them for, what? $20 million?
GARY: To be clear, where the alleged defamation is against Abbe Lowell, the attorney for Hunter Biden.
And, yeah, the amount is 10 million for me, and also Joe Ziegler, for a total of 20 million, yes.
GLENN: So what do you claim they did?
GARY: So the complaint alleges that -- that Mr. Lowell defamed us, and it was part of an overall smear campaign, to attack both Joe Ziegler and I, for coming forward, following the law, going to Congress, and disclosing the preferential treatment that his client was receiving by the Department of Justice.
And, you know, our disclosures weren't -- weren't -- even though Hunter Biden was the topic.
Our disclosures were against the malfeasance in the Department of Justice.
FBI and IRS. So it's really interesting, that it was this third party, that came in. And became the -- you know, as we allege in our complaint, the main defamer and smearer, of both Joe Ziegler and I.
GLENN: So Tristan, that is not uncommon, though. Is it? You're a whistle-blower.
They attack whistle-blowers now like there's no tomorrow.
TRISTAN: Yeah. That's exactly right. I testified yesterday -- or, I guess two days ago, in front of the -- and there are three of our FBI clients that had been with us in the past, and one was with me again. And it's very, very common for us, to be lied about and defamed. That's part of why we want to create consequences for that.
We started. We are supporting. We are funding this lawsuit, that Gary and Joe are bringing in Abbe Lowell in our organization, of how our oversight, who I'm the president of.
And we want to, you know, hold people accountable. We want to do it in other cases.
Because we just think there's never any consequences for people just lying with impunity. They just get away with it.
And so we want to fight back, and that's not something you see happen a lot.
So that's why we want to raise money from the public. You know, we have this website, the FederalWhistleblowers.com, to build up this fund, precisely for suits like this. Where Gary and Joe, were just trying to do the right thing. And they went to Congress to do what was right. But, again, as so often happens, they were lied about. But in their case, it can have real consequences for their careers.
GLENN: I will tell you, I saw -- I saw one of the whistle-blowers, Marcus Allen, with the FBI. That guy seemed like he was dirt strong.
In -- you know, standing up for the right thing.
But he looks like he had been dragged the lie.
And just -- just punched repeatedly in the gut.
It was -- it was amazing to watch him. These whistle-blowers are really, truly, the best of America.
TRISTAN: Yeah. I sat right next to him, as he gave that statement the other day, as I testified there also. And he is, unlike some of the other whistle-blowers that testified with us, a year and some change ago, he's not been on social media.
He's just been holding it in, so we could get his pay reinstated.
And get his security clearance back.
He's finally through all of that. This was his real -- the first time people saw it. Just everything he's been through.
GLENN: It's horrible.
So what are the odds of -- I mean, what are you fighting against?
They are going to fight you with everything they have and lots of money.
Law firms do not want this one to win.
TRISTAN: Yeah. That's absolutely right.
Yeah. The real thing that Gary and Joe. They can share this.
But they're not suing for the more than in any way, right? Yes. It's a 20 million defamation suit. The point of this is that they -- as alleged in the complaint. It's not right for someone like Abbie Lowell, who is well-known, well-identified as a really big name.
A really big litigator. He represented Jared and Ivanka Trump even. But for him to go. If he goes on TV and says, these guys broke the law by sharing their tax information with Congress. Lots of people believe it.
And even Mitch Langberg, who is a defamation attorney who is representing our -- our defamation expert on our legal team, who was one of the foremost experts in the country. You know, without having a background. He said my general impression of these guys breaking the law.
Until he studied the case. And read what we shared.
And said, wow. We haven't been treated fairly here.
We want to educate the public. To know that these guys did not only the right thing. But they did it in the right way.
GLENN: So, Gary, did you at all have conversations amongst yourself of. Should we do this?
You know what will happen to us? Did you have that conversation?
GARY: Well, overall. Right? People say, why did you come forward?
And it really wasn't a choice for me. just my conscience wouldn't allow me to sit there, knowing -- knowing what I know. And seeing what was going to happen in this case. So, I mean, of course, we talked about the -- the risks, but at the same time, unfortunately -- you know, fortunately, for the American people, unfortunately for me personally, you know, the risks were real. And many of them are coming through fruition through retaliation by my employer, IRS, and the Department of Justice against me.
So I went in with my eyes wide open. And, you know, I have no regrets. I feel like we've been vindicated by -- you went from charges that weren't even going to be charged. That even before the -- the generous plea deal fell apart, where he was going to have to plead guilty to two misdemeanors. You know, they were going to give him a deferred prosecution agreement.
And when we were coming forward, you know, DOJ and David Weiss, knew they were coming forward.
He said, no, no, no. That's not going to work out. So we will have to make him plead guilty.
Of course, the judge had the amicus brief from Congress. They included our testimony. They voted out, and made public.
And, you know, that information made it pretty clear that -- that Hunter Biden was receiving that preferential treatment.
Once again, the Department of Justice and IRS here.
That is the one that engaged in -- in the conduct, in which we blew the whistle again.
So, you know, I have no regrets. And I hope the American people have confidence in -- in the IRS. And of government employees, because of what Joe and I did.
GLENN: Here's what I would like you to do. If you are -- if you have $5. There is nothing better than -- than cleaning out this rat's nest. Of liars. And thieves.
In our Justice Department. In really, in all throughout the government.
They have to be taught a lesson.
And unless we do it from the outside, the inside is never going to punish itself.
And I would urge you to go to Empowr. E-M-P-O-W-R.us. And if you can, make a donation. This thing is going to cost a lot of money.
But we have to have the best lawyers on it. We have to have the strongest case possible.
Otherwise, this continues over and over and over again, and good people are destroyed.
So please, go to Empowr. E-M-P-O-W-R. No E there, dot.us. And give, if you can.
Thank you so much, guys.
Appreciate it.
TRISTAN: Thank you, Glenn. Appreciate it.
GLENN: You bet. Buh-bye. Let me just play this whistle-blower.
So this guy is the guy that Tristan was just talking about, that he sat next to.
I don't know if you saw this. But he's an FBI agent. Who was a whistle-blower.
Life destroyed.
Hasn't said anything publicly. Until the other day.
And listen to what he said.
It's cut three.
VOICE: I've considered the hearing today, my last act of service as a public servant for the United States of America. And I'll give you my professional opinion.
I was an Intel professional for our country, for many years.
And I would give recommendations. And also indications and warnings.
Soiled offer this to the American people, as my warning to them.
This is a warning, the American people, I say, you personally have no confidence, that the FBI will reign in its own conduct.
I have been persecuted along with Garrett. Steve and Kyle. And countless other whistle-blowers. It is my opinion, that the bureau used reprisal and fear to control the workforce.
It has been a seemingly effective tactic. I personally believe that there are no current effective checks and balances against them, conducting lawless action with any type of correction in a legitimate time frame.
GLENN: Wow.
VOICE: I welcome the work of the IG. But I think any type of lawless action, there is no legitimate time frame to rein them back in. Their ability to overclassify information, to allow them to stonewall forever.
To the American people, you have a duty as a citizen to vote. And I strongly urge you to do so.
It's how you participate in the American experience. I know people have doubts about election integrity. But you must vote it as your claim.
Stake your claim, and don't forfeit it willingly.
Have your voice heard. My other recommendations are in the natural order.
First vote. Is the Second Amendment. Arm yourself, and know how to defend yourself. Make three to four friends in your neighborhood. And promise to come to people's mutual aid in times of hardship. And during the great depression. People stocked up a pantry.
So I think that's a good practice, especially in our economic times, and make sure you have three to four months of food. As a person of faith, I would say, pray the rosary.
Go to the first Friday devotions. That's for everybody. All my brothers and sisters of all faiths. And I know I'm Catholic. And read the gospel of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. And live it every day.
And that's all I have to say, thank you for the time.
GLENN: Do you hear how his voice is shaking?
STU: Yeah.
GLENN: This is -- how do people dismiss that warning? That is -- I mean, we are living in unprecedented times.
And I tweeted that out, the other day. I should retweet it now.
These guys are so brave. And you can tell they are -- they are not playing politics. Listen to that warning, and share it with your friends.
