After leaving President Trump and Elon Musk's DOGE, Vivek Ramaswamy, has decided to run for governor of Ohio. He joins Glenn to lay out his vision for the state, which he wants to transform into a new gold standard for the American Dream. With Trump returning power to the states, cutting federal programs, and slashing red tape, Ramaswamy argues that it will soon be up to the governors to "step up and do their job." He advocates for federalism, state-level transparency, zero income tax, and reduced property taxes, calling them "un-American." Vivek also addresses the technological revolution, proposing workforce training to harness AI for job creation across blue-collar and professional fields. Ramaswamy stresses reattaching work requirements to welfare, promoting independence over government dependence, and fostering a culture of meritocracy and capitalism.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Vivek Ramaswamy.

The Ohio gubernatorial candidate. Strive asset manager cofounder. Also, I would say the cofounder and co-designer of DOGE. And a good friend of the program.

Vivek, how are you?

VIVEK: Good to talk to you, Glenn. How are you?

GLENN: Really good. Really good. I have a lot to talk to you about. First of all, why do you want to be the governor of Ohio?

VIVEK: Well, look, I think that Donald Trump is being doing a great job as US president, but that means that a lot of federal programs are going to come down from Washington, DC, from education to health care, back to the states and to the people where they belong.

GLENN: Hang on just a second.

VIVEK: In my early effort in helping get DOGE off the ground, it's the same thing. Federalism is the way forward to our golden age, and that is going to require strong governors to actually step up and do their job in leading and managing education, for example, in the right way. And so I was born, raised in Ohio. That's where I'm raising my two sons today.

I think it's one of the better sons in the US. But I want Toledo, Ohio, to be the top state in the country, to raise a young family, to grow a business, and to live the American Dream that I have. That's what I'm living.

GLENN: I don't know. It's kind of like conservative porn here. He's -- he's talking about returning the power to the states. And cutting all those federal programs. Oh, yeah.
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GLENN: So, Vivek, the way the government is going, I mean, I hope that DOGE actually does the job. And I hope we finish the job here. We have so much that we have to cut. I mean, trillions of dollars that we have to cut. And return that power to the state. Everybody is saying, this is going to be chaos. How -- as the governor of Ohio, how -- how do you prepare for what is coming, so it's not chaos? What has to be done?

VIVEK: I have to admit, I think the job is going to be far easier for me at the state level, than it is doing it at the federal level, which is a gargantuan project. But I do think that giving taxpayers the transparency, first of all. How their money is being spent. Texting the regulatory state. All that's required.

At the level of Ohio. I think this is actually immediately achievable, in ways that improve people's lives. Right? I'm bringing the American Dream back to Ohio. How do we do it?

There's a lot of red tape in the state. Think about the overregulation, that comes from that bureaucracy, that is the easiest thing we can fix right out the gate. Eighteen to 36 months for a natural gas pipeline. That should be six months or less.

I haven't met a single person in Ohio. I haven't met a single person in the country, Glenn. Who says, we have too little red tape. I have met a lot of people. Especially business owners. Who will tell you, there's too much red tape.

So there's this idea, that this is an academic project. No! It's not just academic solutions to address the deficit number or a debt number or a GDP number. I think these are vital improvements to our economic and social fabric.

So that Little League teams no longer have to shut down, because they can't find the local companies to sponsor them. Because they went to another state with a more favorable regulatory environment. So mom doesn't have to think twice before having a second or third kid for fear of the cost of a bigger car. Because the tax rate is too high in the state. So one of the things I want to do is to drive the income tax down. Eventually down to zero. Like eight other states that have done the same thing. To the property tax burden.

It's your land. Not the government's. It's your money, not the government's. And I don't think that those should be controversial things to say.

GLENN: Hang on just a second. Wait. Wait. Wait. Talk to me about property taxes again.
What is your plan on property taxes?

VIVEK: Well, property taxes in Ohio, this is our problem in particular. Have gotten way too high. So many people are paying as much money on their interest-plus principal repayment as they are on their property tax, and it makes you feel like you're not owning your land anymore. Owning your land feels like you're leasing it from the government which is un-American. So that's exactly what we're taking back.

GLENN: I have to tell you --

VIVEK: It's about bringing the money back to people's hands.

GLENN: I think property tax is absolutely immoral.

VIVEK: It's un-American.

GLENN: It is! I don't actually own anything if it can be taken from me because of tax. I mean, that is like -- isn't that the story of Robin Hood?

VIVEK: It's actually funny you say that. John Locke was one of the progenitors of our country's founding, as you're well aware. It was ownership of private property, which is foundational to the formation of the United States of America!

And so I think we would do well to remember those basic time-tested principles. Capitalism is the greatest system known to man, to lift us up from poverty. We started to apologize for that as well.
No, I want Ohio. And look, I did this for Ohio.

But I say this, because it has a national significance too, Glenn.

I want Ohio to set the standard for the rest of the country, where we embrace property rights. And capitalism and meritocracy. Instead of apologizing for it. And the beauty of our system is that so much of saving our country actually has to come from the level of the states.

Has to come from the people. That's what -- that's what our Founding Fathers envisioned. So I think federalism is the way.

The path to our golden age runs through federalism.

That's why, look, I think saving this country is a team effort. That's why I chose to run for this position, after great conversations with President Trump, with Elon. Frankly, both of them, they came out within hours of my announcement, within an hour to both endorse, and I was proud to receive their support.

And others statewide here as well. But that's because this is going to be a team effort to save the country.

And I do think the leadership at the level of the states. Especially starting a year or two from now, after a lot of those programs have been pushed back down to the states and the people where they belong. I do see a bit of a leadership gap there. And that's a big part of why I was called into this.

And we will set a national standard. We can call it the Ohio standard. We can call it a modern day northwest ordinance. But a conservative state. When governed according to conservative principles, actually. Can be a magnet for the rest of the country.

GLENN: Okay. So I have a serious question for you.

First, an even more serious question.

Every time I've even endorsed any candidate, they always lose. So what is my non-endorsement worth to you, Vivek?

VIVEK: Your friendship is worth a lot to me, Glenn, and I would love to have you in Ohio. We'll start with the Midas Touch! How about that?

GLENN: So I do want to talk to you about something that you are qualified to answer, and I think there are very few people that are qualified. That people trust and know. That can speak on this.

You know, Musk came out and talked about the singularity on Sunday.

And said, we're on the event horizon of the singularity. For anyone who really understands what's coming our way in the next three to five years.

The world will be completely different, in ways that none of us imagine, in five years from now.

How do we -- how do we explain this to the American people, and how do you prepare a state, to be nimble enough, to be able to adapt.

I mean, I really believe, we're at the very beginning here, of a maybe 18 to 36-month change. Where the end of these 36 months, it's going to be entirely different.

And people will have to understand, you either adapt right now, or you're out!

So how do you -- go ahead.

VIVEK: Either you're playing from the front. Or you're shaping that change. Or else, you're going to be shaped by that change.

GLENN: Right. And it's huge. The difference is massive, than we've ever seen before!

VIVEK: Absolutely. So it's interesting, from the position of state leader. As the next governor of Ohio. I want Ohio to be the state where we use AI. To not take jobs. But to make jobs.

And what I mean by that is, there's a lot of focus on a lot of investment across the country and the world, into algorithmic improvement. To actually improving the computational power, driving new AI. That's important. Where I don't think we've invested enough. Is how you apply that AI. How to use that next generation intelligence. To apply it to their respective fields, from health care, to financial services, to construction design.

And there, you're talking about using skilled workers who are already in the state, who don't have to be programming the next generation of AI. We've trained the AI. What I want to do is train the human beings on how to use that AI, and apply it to enhance their own productivity, on their own terms.

GLENN: Yes.

VIVEK: And I think that last part is really important, Glenn. As we're heading to the future. The future is coming, whether we like it or not. Do you want to be dragged by it, or do you want to shape it? And I want to be a leader who helps us, to shape, to harness the power of that --

GLENN: So as governor, what do you do? What do you do to encourage that? To -- well, I have a lot of blue-collar jobs.

VIVEK: Sure. Sure.

So one of the things we do is invest in the workforce, training and education. And a lot of the private sectors are already doing it, by getting out of the way. The limited occupational licensing requirements. Also, I want this to be the state where two things are true, Glenn.

Too often, even on the right, sometimes, we make this an either/or.

I want this to be the state where we say both of these paths are open. I want Ohio to be the top state in the country, when it comes to our universities. For somebody who wants to become an engineer or a doctor or a computer programmer, that's great. That should be open to them here. That goes through a traditional masters degree, and maybe PHD degrees too. And that's great.

That's a good thing. But we also want to be the state, that has two and one-year and even six-month. Or nine-month vocational programs, that train people to be an electrician, or a welder, or a builder, and give them also in their respective fields, even the training needed, knowing how to use AI. How to use that next generation of technology, to apply it to their respective fields. That's what true modernization looks like. So I don't want to fall in this camp and say, say, oh, well, that technological revolution is for somebody else. No. How do we harness the fruits of that, to actually improve our own lives, even in fields that weren't traditionally thought to be necessarily technologically forward fields? I want to change that attitude.

And it's not either/or. It's not one is more elite than the other. We're all elite is the way I look at it. I don't refer to the other professions as the trades. I call it the professions, because that's what they are. They deserve the same degree of dignity and respect, but at the same time, it's not going to be by chasing our past. It's going to be leading us to chase our future. And I do think that requires a new generation of leadership. And at the state levels, a big part of why I'm stepping into what I see in the leadership vacuum.

GLENN: So I think that Donald Trump has ushered in a completely new era that is not even, nobody even begins to understand it yet. I think he is going to be remembered as our first real technology president. And he is changing everything about this system. And it's long needed to be changed. But when it comes to like last night in the House, they passed a budget. The budget really -- I mean, I guess, it's a step in the right direction.

But it's still growing the deficit. And, you know, it has some good things in it. It has some other bad things. You have congressman Davidson from Ohio, that voted against it last night. And part of me is with Massey, and people like that are like, hey. You know what, we've got to cut, cut, cut. How do we get America or the people of Ohio, or the -- the Congress and the Senate to understand, trillions of dollars need to be cut. No more eating around the edges. Trillions of dollars need to be cut. How do we get there?

VIVEK: Well, the truth is. One of the paths is grow, grow, grow. Goes to that spirit, you talked about. That's where I think as the great leader of state, you can at least help in that regard. Whereas, if you're depressing economic growth.

Then your debt to GDP ratio becomes even worse, because your GDP growth rates are lower.

So one of the areas to focus on is just robust economic growth to mass deregulation, through mass unlocking of private sector potential. Through slashing and burning bureaucracy within wherever necessary. And that's one positive side. On the other side, Glenn. And you raise a good point here. I would just say, there are ways to rationalize the budget that actually lifted people up in the process. I'll give you one example. And I will lead the way here in Ohio. On this front. Is reattaching work requirements. To welfare, Medicaid, and other forms of aid.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

VIVEK: I think it is not compassion. It is cruelty to increase somebody's dependence on the government. The way we are going to save our country is not through greater dependence on the government. But independence from it. We're not victims. We have this victimhood mentality.

That the ends justifies that. We are done with that victimhood culture. We got to move on. We're victors, not victims! We don't whine, we win!

You help somebody to stand up on their own 2 feet. That's a great way! You are looking at a lot of the spending in Medicaid. A lot of spending in welfare. That's a great way to bring down spending. Even more importantly, it's an even better way to help those Americans to actually realize the American dream, rather than to be permanently dependent on a state that serves as a ceiling, for what they're able to achieve in their lives. And there, a lot of that has to be done and led at the state level. The federal government has a role to play. I think there's also an important role, to, what does a leader look like, who has the spine to step up and actually do that. Oh, I was tasked to Medicaid right now. That needs to change!

And so that's the way I'm looking to lead, and to bring back that culture of work, end of the war on work.

And that does two things. One is it enhances economic productivity and GDP growth. The other thing it does, it brings down our debt and our spending.

But the third and most important thing it does, is it brings back our sense of national spirit and self-worth and individual self-confidence. For so many who have lost that in this culture of victimhood and entitlement and dependence on the government.

It's time for us to graduate from the era of dependence, and move back to our era of independence! Think about that as a modern day Declaration of Independence from the government. A northwest ordinance, that's centered in Ohio. That's where I want to lead us. And I personally think, Glenn, a lot of politically homeless people. Independents, Libertarians, not just Republicans. Maybe even some orphan Reagan Democrats will come along with us, for this ride, and I think that's a good thing.

GLENN: Vivek, you know, we met each other, maybe five years ago, and I really liked you then. But I wasn't sure I wanted to watch you for a while. I know who you are. And I'm not going to endorse you because I like you too much.

You know, to endorse, but I will tell you, I am on your train. I just think, you would be great for Ohio. And so it's an endorsement, without being an endorsement, because I don't want to jink your candidacy. But best of luck.

VIVEK: That means a lot to me. And hopefully we'll set a good example, and learn some lessons from Texas as well.

GLENN: Yeah, thank you. All right. Buh-bye. Vivek Ramaswamy. Now running for governor.

You can find out all you need to know about him at V-I-V-E-K. VivekforOhio.com. VivekforOhio.com.