GLENNMarch 09, 2017

4 Steps to Break Down Walls From a Former Westboro Baptist Church Member

Megan Phelps-Roper, who grew up indoctrinated with hatred in the Westboro Baptist Church, left the church in 2012 after what can only be described as an awakening.

"She left the church a while ago, and recently did a TED talk on why she left and how it happened. And it's fascinating because, I mean, there are parts of it that sounds like she's just lifting lines from Glenn Beck about how to deal with the world," Co-host Stu Burguiere said Thursday on The Glenn Beck Program.

Interestingly, Phelps-Roper's conversion began in the hateful universe of social media, where she encountered a pattern that repeated during her 144-character conversations on Twitter.

Initially, the people I encountered on the platform were just as hostile as I expected. They were the digital version of the screaming hordes I had been seeing at protests since I was a kid. But in the midst of that digital brawl, a strange pattern developed. Someone would arrive at my profile with the usual rage and scorn. I would respond with a custom mix of Bible versus, pop culture references, and smiley faces. They would be understandably confused and caught off guard. But then a conversation would ensue. And it was civil. Full of genuine curiosity on both sides.

Concerned with the current state of division in the country, Phelps-Roger has identified four steps on how to approach people with different ideas, especially on social media platforms:

1. Don't assume bad intent

2. Ask honest questions

3. Stay calm

4. Make the argument, explain

"If you want to make it happen, she's giving you the recipe. And it's Martin Luther King's recipe. Unfortunately, most of our society is siding with Malcolm X. Most of us want the anger and hate and rage. We all want it to stop, but we're all being led to believe that nothing will ever change with the other side," Glenn said. "That's a lie, and she's proof positive of that lie."

Listen to this segment from The Glenn Beck Program:

GLENN: I want to get to the media bias and American kids. Can they spot fake news stories? Can they spot bias? We'll give that to you here in just a second.

STU: So Megan Phelps-Roper. She was in the Westboro Baptist Church. So Phelps is the name.

GLENN: Right.

STU: Fred Phelps was the head guy.

GLENN: Is she -- is she a child of?

STU: No, I think she's married.

GLENN: Okay. So she was a child of Fred?

STU: Yeah. She grew up in -- or, it might be grandchild of Fred. Fred is -- I could be --

GLENN: Have we lost him?

STU: He's very old. I don't know if we lost him. I don't keep up with every iteration of what goes on in the Westboro Baptist Church. But I do find it a fascinating topic, in that it's -- they're just so crazy. And to see -- if you don't know who they are, they're the people that go and protest military funerals. They say God hates Jews and gays.

GLENN: All kinds of stuff. Really bad.

STU: You know, they're the worst part of every news story, basically.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: They come out -- gosh, this is a tragedy. Now it's worse. They're able to do it every single time.

GLENN: Right. Right. Right.

STU: So she grew up -- and, you know, I know we had someone who left the Westboro Baptist Church a long time ago. And I can't remember if it was her or if it was someone else because a couple people have left. But almost everybody at the Westboro Baptist Church is from the Phelps family. It's like 80 percent Phelps family members.

GLENN: Boy.

STU: So she left the church a while ago. And recently did a TED talk on why she left and how it happened. And it's fascinating because, I mean, there are parts of it that sounds like she's just lifting lines from Glenn Beck about how to deal with the world. Now, you might not want to be associated with someone who is in the Westboro Baptist Church --

GLENN: But she's out of the Westboro Baptist Church.

STU: She's out --

GLENN: She's out and she's talking about why she left. And for everybody who says, "Well, you don't -- the left won't listen." Let's listen to how the woman -- do you think the left is less extreme than the Westboro Baptist Church?

STU: If you could communicate with someone like that and break down those walls, you could do it with anybody.

GLENN: And listen to what she said. How it was done. Listen to this.

MEGAN: In 2009, that zeal brought me to Twitter. Initially, the people I encountered on the platform were just as hostile as I expected. They were the digital version of the screaming hordes I had been seeing at protests since I was a kid. But in the midst of that digital brawl, a strange pattern developed. Someone would arrive at my profile with the usual rage and scorn. I would respond with a custom mix of Bible versus, pop culture references, and smiley faces. They would be understandably confused and caught off guard. But then a conversation would ensue. And it was civil. Full of genuine curiosity on both sides.

How had the other come to such outrageous conclusions about the world?

Sometimes the conversation even bled into real life. People I had sparred with on Twitter would come out to the picket line to see me when I protested in their city.

A man named David was one such person. He ran a blog called Jewlicious. And after several months of heated, but friendly arguments online, he came out to see me at a picket in New Orleans. He brought me a Middle Eastern dessert from Jerusalem, where he lives. And I brought him kosher chocolate and held a "God hates Jews" sign. There was no confusion about our positions, but the line between friend and foe was becoming blurred. And it changed the way we spoke to one another. It took time, but eventually these conversations planted seeds of doubt in me.

GLENN: Now, imagine how many Jewish friends this guy had who said, what, are you selling out? Don't you know she's using you? Don't you know, you're being pulled in? You're a sellout. You've got to stand against.

How many people she had in her life saying the same thing. But they both were being civil to each other. And -- and probably everyone in their life said, "It's not going to change anything." And look what happened. Do you have another cut from her?

PAT: Yeah.

STU: If you can win over the Westboro Baptist Church -- and she went on later. Something you said a million times. She said, the conversations always started, and neither of us changed our positions.

GLENN: Yep.

STU: Neither of us changed our principles. It wasn't -- it was just listening. You don't have to change your ideas. It was listening and communicating like your -- your friend.

GLENN: And then start talking about families and things you have in common.

STU: Yeah. And it helped, I mean, win over a Westboro Baptist Church member. And to the extent of how crazy that would be -- because you think of these people, I mean, they're obviously crazy.

GLENN: I mean, God hates Jews. God hates gays. I mean, you can't think of people who are more off their rocker than this --

PAT: She goes into that.

STU: Yeah. And to talk about how indoctrinated she was. She talks at the very beginning of this that the first protest she went to, she was five years old, protesting gays somewhere. Holding a sign she couldn't even read.

PAT: Uh-huh.

GLENN: Wow.

STU: That's how deeply she was in this. And she goes through this entire process. And through Twitter -- we think of all these good people being turned bad through Twitter. Here's someone who went through Twitter and turned her life from pure evil to something else.

MEGAN: My friends on Twitter took the time to understand Westboro's doctrines. And in doing so, they were able to find inconsistencies I had missed my entire life. Why did we advocate the death penalty for gays when Jesus said, let he who is without sin cast the first stone? How could we claim to love our neighbor, while at the same time praying for God to destroy them?

The truth is that the care shown to me by these strangers on the internet was itself a contradiction. It was growing evidence that people on the other side were not the demons I had been led to believe.

These realizations were life-altering. Once I saw that we were not the ultimate arbiters of devine truth, but flawed human beings, I couldn't pretend otherwise. I couldn't justify our actions, especially our cruel practice of protesting funerals and celebrating human tragedy.

GLENN: Okay. Stop here for a second. Let's just put this together. Both sides have this problem. Both sides in one way or another is the Westboro Baptist Church. Both left and right. We have extremists on both sides.

But let's just think of -- for this audience, let's just think of the right -- or, the left thinks they're the arbiter of everything that is true. They're the -- we're not science deniers. We're not that way. You're the science denier.

Well, you aren't educated. We are educated. We have all the universities. They believe that everything intellectually is on their side. Right? So they're morally superior. They don't see the -- the disconnect between saying, let's march for women and yesterday, while this was going on, they were advocating -- the left was advocating and going against the CDC, saying, women are protesting the CDC because you men can't tell us not to drink during our pregnancy.

Well, I agree that we can't tell you what to do. That's your decision. But that doesn't seem like something you later in life will be proud of standing and marching for.

It doesn't seem logical, to me, that when all is said and done, you'll be proud that you marched for abortion for the killing of children. That at some point in your life, you, or most, I believe, will come to the determination that, you know, that is a child. Because there's no way. Because of science. It's going to force you. I'm not the science denier. You're the one that says, I don't want a scan. I don't want an ultrasound to happen. And give the women a chance to say, oh, my gosh, it is a child. If they have that scan and they say, I don't care. Well, that's a different subject.

But you have to admit that that is a child; otherwise, why would you say no to ultrasounds?

Which one of us is in this bubble? Now, I'm only using this side because both sides are in a bubble. But anybody who says that they cannot reach the left, you're -- listen to what she just said. It was by kindness on the internet, first. Kindness of not slamming back.

Because the left does see the right as a monster, just like many on the right see the left as a monster. They're not.

We're not. We disagree on things. And we ratchet it up because we're screaming at each other. But if we'll just start talking -- and better yet, listening. Listening first. To one another. You will find what I have found, wow, we have a ton in common.

Now, it's not going to change everything overnight. People say to me all the time, yeah, well, who have you changed? Well, nobody. But I will tell you, look how many people from the left have been on this show. Just two days ago, we had somebody on the left who said, you know what, I changed my mind. I'm actually not on the left. I'm on the right. And I was die-hard on the left. And now I've changed. So while I haven't personally done it, I think it is happening.

And if you want to make it happen, she's giving you the recipe. And it's Martin Luther King's recipe. And unfortunately most of our society is siding with Malcolm X. Most of us want the anger and hate and rage. We all want it to stop. But we're all being led to be convince that had nothing will ever change with the other side.

And so it's of no use. That's a lie. And she's proof positive of that lie. At least I think so.

STU: At the most extreme level. If this isn't a proof of concept, I don't know what is.

[break]

GLENN: Craziest elections, our series continues in just a few minutes. Also, we want to talk to you a little bit about Obamacare. And Stu wants to give us the four steps that this woman from the Westboro Baptist Church said got me out of the church.

STU: Yeah, she identified these. Which I thought were interesting. One, don't assume bad intent. And that's something I like to use on social networks. Because it makes your -- it just makes your life better. You know, if you're constantly getting in fights with people, it's just annoying. And I've -- because people will insult you. Like I insult Jeffy all the time, and he knows it comes from a good place.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: But that's how I look at everybody who calls me Hitler on the internet.

PAT: They mean it in a nice way?

STU: They mean it in a joking way. And I just treat it that way. And I don't care. It makes me feel better.

GLENN: You know what, a lot of times I'll see people online. They'll say something like, you know, you're so mean to Glenn. And blah, blah. You know, the one defender. Blah, blah, blah. And they'll be like, no, I'm a big fan of the show. I was joking.

STU: Right.

GLENN: And so if you don't assume bad intent, it saves you a lot of angst.

STU: Yeah. And it also means you never get pissed off at the internet.

GLENN: Yes.

STU: So many people get obsessed in these little battles. They never bother me. I never care what you say about me. If you go with that principle, just don't assume it's bad. All these interactions wind up being better. And many times, by the way, you turn people around. There's people who are fans of the show that didn't like some things we said. They came out, they call us all sorts of names. If you respond nicely, typically they'll just turn around --

PAT: Yeah. I'm having a hard time finding the rainbow in all of that, during the election. When they were saying things like eat crap and die, I didn't think that was necessarily good-natured.

GLENN: But I will tell you -- I gave up. It was overwhelming at the time. But I will tell you, a lot of people will say, you know what, you're right. I'm sorry. I flew off the handle. I don't agree with you. But I appreciate it.

PAT: Yeah.

STU: Step two. Ask questions. So that's a great thing to do.

PAT: Even the very existence of God. For if there be a God, he must surely rather --

GLENN: Shut up.

STU: But I mean, asking questions is important. And honest ones. Right? It's not just like trying to come up with a point and just saying what you believe and pushing other people. And then asking questions that aren't honest.

GLENN: Don't ask a question that you know the answer too.

PAT: Just trying to set people up.

GLENN: And you're just trying to trap people into it.

PAT: Yeah.

STU: This one is very difficult for a lot of people. But if you do the other two, you can do this one, which is stay calm.

You know, the person who you're going up against in an argument, especially from the other side are going to say terrible things about it, why let it bother you? That's you. That's not them. That's you letting it bother you. You're making the choice to allow it to bother you. If you stay calm and don't let it bother you, you're able to kind of reason your way through the argument.

PAT: How amazing is it that this is coming from a Phelps -- the granddaughter of Fred Phelps, the founder of the Westboro Baptist Church. This is astounding.

STU: Yeah, because it worked on her to get her out.

PAT: That is really amazing. She and her sister both got out.

STU: Yeah. It might have been her sister --

PAT: It might have been her sister Grace we talked to. I think so.

STU: We should see if she'll come on too. Because it's great.

And the last one is make the argument. Which that one didn't strike me as obvious when I was listening to that list. But if you're in a battle with someone on the left or you're in a battle with someone who is nuts and you're trying to actually persuade them, a lot of times I think because we believe, for example, low taxes are the right thing to do or abortion is wrong or whatever the belief is, it's so apparent to us, we treat it as if it's doctrine to everybody. And we don't bother to walk people through the step by step argument of how you actually get there. So many people have -- they start at their arrival point. I'm young. I'm in college. I'm a liberal. I'm a leftist, I love abortion.

PAT: Uh-huh.

STU: And the process very well may not have ever happened, where they made that decision organically. Where they walked through the steps in their head.

GLENN: You know, I got to get to the survey. The survey shows that most people -- and this includes teens -- and I will narrow it down to teens. But most people get their money from a friend, or I blog. A commentator of some sort. They haven't done the thinking. They get the opinion from someone else who may or may not have done all of the thinking themselves.

STU: Take the time to actually make the argument when you're talking to someone. Calmly. Don't assume their bad intent. You follow those few steps -- you're not going to win everybody over, nor should you care --

GLENN: Isn't it interesting, you're on the bandwagon.

PAT: I've been on the band freaking wagon. I brought these clips to the show.

GLENN: Listen to him now.

STU: Stay calm! That's all I'm saying. Stay calm!

GLENN: I'm assuming bad intent.

RADIO

The FBI knocked on my door to talk about Antifa...

The FBI showed up to Glenn's house to discuss his TV show exposing Antifa's network. Glenn shares what he learned from his "surreal" meeting and warns any member or funder of Antifa: you should be a little concerned because the FBI is SERIOUS about investigating you.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Let me tell you something else that's changed.

Let me start with this. Cut five here.

Here are the new talking points for the media on Antifa.

Listen to this.

VOICE: This is an entirely imaginary organization. There's not an Antifa.

VOICE: Look, I don't even know what Antifa is.
VOICE: There is no growth.

VOICE: It's not even like far right groups, like the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers, compared to right-wing extremists, Antifa-linked violence is rare and limited.

VOICE: It is an organization.
It is -- it is in many ways mythology.

VOICE: It's not like the Proud Boys or the Oath Keepers. You know, they're defined terrorist organizations, the leadership that led -- that, you know, leads violence.

VOICE: It's not a highly organized movement. It's a moniker. It's not even a group like the Proud Boys are.

Things like Antifa are things that are thought up.

VOICE: These guys are going after Antifa, which is nothing. There's no organization called Antifa.

VOICE: Nobody is a member of Antifa because it doesn't exist! They are just claiming existence to something that doesn't exist.

VOICE: There is no Antifa organization, so maybe that's good for social media.

But it really has -- is nonexistent.

VOICE: They exist on the internet and chat rooms.

And in 4chan.

GLENN: Okay.

VOICE: And places like that. Where they run discussion boards. Trade tactics.

Documents. Things like that.

But none of them are called Antifa.

STU: What!

GLENN: I don't even know what they're talking about.

You want to talk about living in a different world.

But that's what's going around.

Now, let me just tell you this: Last week, I did a TV show that apparently got the FBI's attention.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: The topic was -- was initial investigation. A jumping off point, shattering the myth that Antifa just -- oh, it's -- it's just leaderless. And decentralized. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

We thought, no. It's really not. So we dove in. Head first.

And we analyzed the Antifa network. And we went from the street thugs, to the support groups, eventually, to the funding.

Okay?

To say the FBI was interested in this might be an understatement.

Let's just say, the FBI is turning over every single stone.

It is so clear to me, that they are exploring all angles of this. And they are talking to anyone and everyone that can give them think kind of information.

How do I know?

Saturday, I get a phone call.

The director would like to send over some agents to speak to you, Glenn.

And I'm like, the director?

The FBI agents?

Yes, you said, some things that they need to talk to you about.

Well, good things or bad things? "They'll be over."

Three agents sat in my living room on Saturday afternoon for almost two hours. And I immediately called Jason. I'm like, Jason, you're the researcher. It's your fault. I'm going to throw you under the bus. You better get your butt over here.

So Jason was there. My wife and I sat there, and it was surreal at one point. I talked to them for about 15 minutes just going over the Tides Foundation. And saying, if you understand Tides, you'll understand how difficult your job is going to be. And this is information that I first gave on Fox years ago.

Let me just say this: Finally, we have an administration and an FBI director, that is willing to go in deep. Not surface. But deep!

I could only imagine what we could have avoided, if anyone in an administration, would have done this, in 2011.

But if I were in that, imaginary group, of Antifa, which, by the way, has imaginary leaders. Leaving the country to go maybe to imaginary countries outside of the US right now. I would be very concerned. If I were a part of anything that was sending money their way or assistance their way.

I don't know!

I might be a little concerned, because the FBI is deadass serious.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Donald Trump, Kash Patel, and all of the agents at the FBI.

GLENN: We're covering from Allie Beth Stucky's big event, six or 7,000 women showed up this weekend for a weekend conference. It was -- it was unbelievable.

STU: Really, I saw the crowds. It was incredible.

GLENN: Yeah. She did a great, great job. I'm so proud of her. She's just killing it. But we will try to get to some of those clips because they're really, really good. We'll get to those later on in the program. You know, Stu and I were talking about how Antifa doesn't exist. And, you know, that's like saying -- it's like saying Al-Qaeda doesn't exist. Well, you're right.

There is no way, you know, 501 Broadway, you know, where you go to al-Qaeda's office. That doesn't happen, but it does exist, and it's an ideology.

And while they may not -- they may not take their direction from the same person at the office, I don't know. There's no HR. So they don't exist. They exist!

They exist. And they're loosely affiliated. And sometimes, they are getting money. You know.

STU: Uh-huh.

GLENN: And for the press and everybody else to say -- when you're watching them all over the country, and they're doing exactly the same thing, same tactics. Every -- everywhere.

You know, to say, they don't exist is just infantile.

STU: Yeah. It's like a -- it's -- I don't know what the word -- there should be a word for this, if there isn't.

But there's a real point used in an intentionally dumb way to mislead.

Is that malinformation? Is that what that is?

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

STU: It really is. There's a real point to it. They're disengaged from a centralized thing. This makes them more dangerous. This is how you had to deal with terrorist cells back in the day. However, they're using it in a way that makes it seem like it's not a threat, which is not accurate. And they know it's not accurate. And they're trying to mislead people with a piece of --

GLENN: Why would you -- why would you support -- why would you try to brush Antifa under the rug? I mean, it's just perplexing.

RADIO

Historic peace deal in the Middle East: A new era of hope

For the first time in modern history, and perhaps the past few thousand years, we may have actual peace in the Middle East. Glenn Beck discusses the signing of President Trump’s historic peace deal, which will hopefully bring an end to the Israel/Hamas conflict in Gaza, and the freeing of the remaining 20 hostages.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Let me start here: For the first time in living memory, the guns have gone quiet in Gaza. Hostages, that have been held now for over two years have just walked free. And for the very first time, not in decades, but perhaps a millennia or two: The descendents of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have -- have signed something that might resemble more than just a ceasefire. You have to understand, before we start, how significant and how impossible it is to reach this point! This is not like anything we've ever seen before.

The conflict did not begin in 1948. It didn't begin with the British mandates and the creation of the state of Israel. The story really begins with the -- the ancient people of Israel and the sands of Canaan, where the people of Israel and the people called the Philistines, clashed over the same spot of earth called Gaza.

The Bible records Gaza as one of the five cities of the Philistines. And is this the place, Gaza is the place where the Philistines gathered their strength.

It was in Gaza that Samson, the judge of Israel was betrayed, captured, blinded, and paraded through the streets, as the Philistines mocked him. Much like you saw on October 7th. It was in Gaza that he brought the temple down on them. You know, one man against the empire. History has a very long memory in that land. We call it the Gaza Strip today. But it has seen conquers come and go. The Egyptians. The Babylonians. The Greeks, the on the mans, and the British.

And yet, somehow or another, the one rivalry, that is from 2000, 3,000 years ago, remains. The one between the children of Israel, and those who dwell along the sea.

That's an important thing. Palestinians of the ancient world, in Biblical context, are -- are different than the Palestinians. They were the group. They were not Semitic. They weren't Jewish. And they concentrated on the coast of Israel, Gaza.

The modern Palestinian identity came, you know, a millennia later, and that was shaped by the Arab, Islamic, and -- and historic developments in that area. It's not directly connected to the Philistines. However, Philistine and Palestinian both mean people that dwell on the coast. The word Hamas is an acronym, which means, you know, in their language. The Islamic resistance movement. But in Hebrew, Hamas means something altogether different. It means violence.

And this is in Hebrew, in Genesis 6:11. The earth was filled with Hamas. Violence, corruption, wickedness. It was because of Hamas, that the rains came, and Noah had to build the ark because of Hamas. So when you hear the word "Hamas," understand what it means to the Israeli ear, compared, you know, to the Palestinian ear.

It's not just an enemy. It's a Biblical echo, a spiritual warning from deep, deep time. So for 75 years, they have been trying to make peace between these ancient adversaries. Everybody has tried to do it. In my lifetime, the Camp David awards, or Accords, were in 1978. The Oslo Accords, in 1993. Endless road maps, summits, UN resolutions, and nothing! Every single one of them hailed as historic. And each one declared a new chapter. And every one of them failed, and it's not because the diplomats lack skill. But because too many on one side, the entire Arab world didn't believe Israel had a right to exist, and everyone was looking for a political solution. Then comes Donald Trump!

Donald Trump didn't approach this, you know, as a professor of Middle East studies.

He didn't approach this with the hundred years of expertise from the State Department.

In fact, he looked at the State Department expertise, and went, you guys aren't really experts of anything. You haven't solved anything.

And you keep trying the same thing. What are you doing?

He took a business approach. He knew all of the players, because of business. He knew all of the big players.

And so he got in with all of the players, and found out, what do you really want? And what they really want is stability. If you look at what's being built in the Middle East, they are these -- these incredible modern cities. Incredible modern cities.

They want prosperity. The Middle East does. Hamas doesn't!

He saw a region, Donald Trump did. He saw a region that was addicted to USAID.

Endless negotiation.

And so he just tore up the whole rule book. And he recognized Jerusalem, first thing as the capital of Israel.

A move that every single president before has been told by the State Department, you can't do that. It will cause war. And, you know what, it didn't.

He moved the embassy.

He then walked away from the Iran Deal. And he told the world that America is no longer going to apologize for standing with the only democracy in the Middle East. And that's where all of the anti-Semitic stuff comes. Because now, see, Israel is controlling our foreign policy! Israel is controlling Donald Trump. Donald Trump is doing the bidding of the Jews!

No. Nope. No, he didn't.

No, he wasn't being controlled. And, no, they weren't controlling him. It was actually seemingly quite the opposite. Because he did something extraordinary. He took the entire region, and brought them together!

First, he did it with the Abrahamic -- Abraham Accords. That is the first genuine realignment of the region, in a generation, or maybe two.

And it wasn't about ideology. It was all about survival, prosperity. And the shared fear of Iran's growing shadow!

When we drop the bombs on Iran, Americans, and people in the West, and people who have been educated in our universities, and have been indoctrinated with all of this garbage, they looked at that and said, "Oh, my gosh, look at. He's doing Israel's bidding."

No, he was actually doing Israel's bidding. He was doing Saudi Arabia's bidding. He was doing a bidding of Egypt. Everyone in the Middle East. Everyone in the Middle East. Hates Iran. They know how dangerous Iran is. They wanted somebody to put Iran in its place. So when Donald Trump did, the Middle East, the Arab world, celebrated. Not obviously not all of it, but a lot of it. The ones that are now at the table. He did something else: He proved himself to be an honest broker, and not doing the bidding of just Israel. And I would love to hear all of the people who are now standing up and saying, "See, we are just a puppet."

I would love to hear your explanation of this. When Israel went after Qatar, which I don't have any love at all for Qatar. But they went after Qatar. And that was going to blow this whole thing up.

What happened? Donald Trump went to Benjamin Netanyahu, and said, "You need to apologize to Qatar."

Israel and Netanyahu is not going to apologize. They ended up apologizing to Qatar. "That won't happen again."

That gave Donald Trump the -- the -- the image in the Middle East of not being the little boy toy, but the other way around. He has some control of what Israel is going to do. He can tell them, "Knock it off."

Then when everybody came to the table, the Middle East all came to the table and said, "Okay we'll handle Hamas. You handle Israel."

So they got Hamas to the table and said, "You're going to take this, and we're going to guarantee the peace." And Donald Trump went to Benjamin Netanyahu. Benjamin Netanyahu said, "We have to finish the job. We have to finish them off."

And Donald Trump said, "No, you're going to take this deal now."

And Benjamin Netanyahu said, "No, we have to finish them off." And he said, "I don't think you hear me: You're going to take this deal." That's how this happened. That's a miracle. He didn't try to make them friends, he tried to make them partners. They all want prosperity. And now, we are -- we're looking at the fruits of the labor that started with the Abrahamic Accords. The Arab states signed it to enforce peace rather than to sabotage it. For the first time in 4,000 years! The blood-soaked sands of Gaza whisper something today, that has been forgotten for 4,000 years. And that is hope.

If it hollows, even if it holds for a year, five years, ten years, it means centuries of hatred has been overtaken by something stronger than hate.

And even if we just start with survival, that's good!

It means that the children of Abraham, which is both the Arab and the Jew, the descendents of Abraham, long divided by faith and pride, have decided, choose life over death, trying to prove you're right!

It means the Biblical land of Gaza, where Samson fell, where violence has filled the earth, might finally learn the meaning of peace. But if it doesn't, and the rockets return and the lies reawaken, and this will just be another tombstone in the desert of broken promises. But the Bible says, "Blessed are the peacemakers. The Lord hates the hands that shed innocent blood." So if this holds, if this holds, if courage triumphs over chaos -- let's remember that peace is not the absence of war, it's the presence of righteousness. And righteousness, true, moral clarity demands that we call evil by its name. And we stand with truth, even when it's costly. And we defend the innocent, even when the world looks away. And now, it is our job, as long as this holds, to rebuild. I am so happy to say, "We are not being asked to rebuild. Not our money."

The Middle Eastern money is coming in now, to rebuild the region. As it should be. Men haven't suddenly become good, but for once, maybe they're choosing life over death or survival. But perhaps they've remembered and seen God's warning and chosen mercy over their rage.

RADIO

Are Hamas and Palestine in the Book of Revelation?!

Is Hamas mentioned in the Bible? Does the Palestinian flag have a connection to a prophecy in the Book of Revelation? Glenn Beck speaks with filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza about his new film, “The Dragon’s Prophecy,” based on the book by Jonathan Cahn, that discusses these “coincidences.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Dinesh, welcome to the program, how are you?

DINESH: Glenn, it's a great pleasure. Thanks for having me.

GLENN: Oh, you're welcome. I watched your film last week, and I've got to tell you, it's -- it's frightening, and really powerful.

DINESH: Well, we begin, Glenn, as you know with putting you on a motorcycle with a GoPro, and you ride with Hamas into the Kibbutz. Hamas took this footage. Remarkably, not a lot of people have seen it. The Israel government, I think was reluctant to show it, except to a handful of journalists.

But it opens my film, and it has a bit of a graphic warning. But it's ten minutes of putting you right on the scene of October 7th, 2 years ago, and the film kind of takes off from there, to give you the widest significance that engages politics, but history, archaeology. And even as you mentioned, a hint of Biblical prophecy, so that the political is wedded into the moral of the spiritual.

GLENN: So let me play a trailer here from the movie. Here it is.

VOICE: So who are the Jews? Who are the Palestinians? Whose land is it really? Could the fate of the world, of humanity itself, be somehow tied to this place?

VOICE: The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation. So what if there was going to be a resurrection of another people, an enemy people of Israel? The Bible speaks about this whole war as a dragon, representing the enemy, attacking a woman, representing Israel.

VOICE: Civilian deaths on both sides represent victories on the part of the dragon.

VOICE: Hamas burned everything within their ability to maximize the civilian casualty.

VOICE: Came back to a land that was largely barren, and we brought it back alive, and we are going to keep it!

VOICE: The devil hates the Jewish people because they represent the existence of God!

VOICE: Because without that Jewish foundation, there is no Christianity.

GLENN: So let us -- go to the Dragons Prophecy here for a second. What is the case of the Dragons Prophecy?

DINESH: Glenn, in the Book of Revelation 12, there is a depiction of a dragon representing the devil, going to war against a woman, representing Israel. And the woman is pregnant, representing the Messiah. So this is the sort of spiritual backdrop. It's a confirmation of what people sometimes say, that underneath our political fight, there is a spiritual war. But people don't often ask, who is fighting? Like who are the combatants?

And the answer is, this is a war that has been raging between sort of God and the devil from the very beginning of time. And the provocative idea in the film is that the devil cannot overthrow God, and so the -- the devil tries to find out, what is it that God cares about? Let me ruin that!

So in Genesis 1, for example, why does the serpent target Adam and Eve? Adam and Eve have nothing to the devil, but the devil goes, "I want to ruin them, because this is God's cherished creation. If I can ruin them, I can get my revenge against God."

And I think for the same reason, the devil targets the Jews and the Christians. The Jews, because they are the original chosen people. And so the devil's agenda is really simple: Drive them out of their ancestral homeland from the river to the sea. And also, put a big Islamic victory arch right on top of their holiest sight, which is the site of the Solomonic Temple.

And then, of course, the Christians are, the Bible itself, refers to Christians as like spiritual Israelites. And so the Devil is like, I hate that too. I will persecute and harass and destroy the Christians no less than the Jews."

And, look, this is not just sort of idle Biblical speculation. You can see this happening right in front of us in the world today.

GLENN: Talk to me about the meaning of the word Hamas, Palestinians, where that came from. Can you take us through that a little bit?

DINESH: Yeah, this is the genius of Jonathan Khan and his book, The Dragon Prophesy. He points out that Hamas in Arabic means something like force or strength, but in Hebrew, interestingly, the -- the word means violence and destruction. And if you -- in Hebrew, it literally says things like, "Lord, save me from the men of Hamas, or Hamas dwells in the dark places of the earth."

GLENN: I had to go to my Bible to look it up.

It does say that. It does say that. It's crazy!

DINESH: Yes. Not only that, Glenn. But the four colors of the apocalypse, mentioned in the Book of Revelation, which reflects famine, death, and destruction. The white horse, the black horse, the green horse, the red horse.

Han points out. He goes, just take a look at the Palestinian flag. It's made up of four colors. Basically, white for the white horse. Red for the red horse. Black for the black horse. Green for the green horse. And all of this, I think, within -- if there's a single connection, you can be like, "Hmm. I don't know."

But there are so many of these connections out in the film.

GLENN: So many.

DINESH: That, ultimately, it's almost like, you have to sort of -- you have to step back and reconsider if you are even understanding what's happening in front of you, in the widest and sort of deepest possible light.

GLENN: I have to tell you, I don't know about, you know -- I haven't studied this, you know, enough. I just watched the movie once.

And it's worth watching. But you will go back to Scriptures, and you will look it up. It is worth pondering. Because it shows you, where we might be right now. And the battle that we're preparing for.

Which is a really terrifying thing. But I would rather know it, so I can be prepared for it.

You also -- you know, did a lot of archaeological stuff. What stood out to you in the research that you did?

DINESH: What stood out to me, Glenn, was that for 2000 years, and even more, there are figures that appear in the Bible, Pontius Pilate, Isaiah, Jeremiah. We're going for King David. We're talking now about three -- a thousand DC.

So 3,000 years ago. And even 30 or 40 years ago, if you said, prove to me that these figures are real. Prove to me, outside the Bible, using historical or archaeological evidence, you couldn't do it. Remarkably, just in the last few decades, there are conscriptions and stones and clay seals, coming out of the ground, that are showing that these Biblical figures are real, the Bible is an account of real people and true events. So you could dispute the theology of the Bible. You can question the miracle. But the historicity of the Bible is being resoundingly affirmed.

And it's almost as if the world has become more secular and pulled away from God, God is speaking back.

But not in the thunderous language of Genesis 1. You know, in the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth. But rather, in the kind of prosaic language of science and archaeology.

GLENN: Yeah. It was really amazing. Because you don't think -- we live in our time. And so you don't think of the times that have come. David didn't exist.

You know, these stories are true. They didn't exist. And now we're finding all of the archaeological evidence, and we just -- at least I did. I just accepted, that, "Yeah. These -- the big things, we knew existed." No. No. We didn't. It's now just being proven now because of what we're finding in archaeological digs.

DINESH: Not only that, but for centuries, really for two centuries going back to the enlightenment, you have the armchair critics who would read the Bible and say, "Well, it looks to me, this was written several hundred years later."

But now we know that that can't be the case, because there are minor -- minor figures in the Bible. And, you know, the royal steward of King Josiah in, like, the 6th or 7th Century DC, and suddenly a seal comes out of the ground in Jerusalem and there's this name on the seal. Now, nobody 300 years later -- this is like asking for the names of interns who worked for Donald Trump. Hundreds of years from now. Who would possibly know their names and identities?

So this is why the Bible is being affirmed, even at the level of excruciating detail.

GLENN: The fact that everyone said that Pontius Pilate didn't exist. And the stair that has his name carved into it, 2000 years ago, that was discovered.

It's those things that you're like, "I mean, how do you deny some of this stuff now?"

I mean, it's just piling up.

DINESH: It's -- it's utterly impossible. And then we are in Jerusalem, and we go up to this place called Sheillo, in the middle part of Israel, and we find these remarkable red heifers. I've read the book about the red heifers. This has to do with the fact that in the end times, the dome of the rock will come down. The Jewish Temple -- the Solomonic Temple will be rebuilt, and some of the rabbis are actually preparing for temple services, which involve the ashes of a red heifer.

So all of this is not just interpretations. You have people in Jerusalem. And in Israel, actually preparing for this. In a practical way.

GLENN: Oh, yeah.

In fact, one of the things that they said. Let me take a break. And have you come back and answer this. One of the things they said.

Because we were talking about the red rest offers two years ago.

And they were talking about maybe making, you know, red heifers into ashes to prepare.

And Hamas said, at the time, that's one of the reasons why they -- they went after on October 7th, was because of the red heifers. And you go into that. And what they really call October 7th.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

Great Reset Elites are Planning a Post-Human Future | Whitney Webb | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 269

Global elites are still pushing forward with their Great Reset agenda to enslave the world and create a post-human future despite President Trump’s crushing of ESG and DEI, researcher and author Whitney Webb tells Glenn. In her long-awaited return to "The Glenn Beck Podcast," Whitney explores the intricate web of global elites, including the World Economic Forum’s downfall under Klaus Schwab and current state under Larry Fink as well as the rise of digital IDs and AI-driven governance like Albania’s “digital minister.” Whitney also discusses the tools she believes the Great Reset elites are building to control us, including the Biden-era ARPA-H program and possible surveillance tech tied to Palantir and the CIA. Further, Whitney ties the globalists’ agenda to the chaos happening in cities like Chicago and Portland and what Trump must be wary of when deploying the National Guard. Plus, as a leading expert in the financial crimes and corrupt connections of Jeffrey Epstein, Whitney weighs in on the debate over the “black book” and why the government still hasn’t released all the Epstein documents.

You can read Whitney Webb's latest reporting on the Epstein case HERE: https://unlimitedhangout.com/author/w...

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Great Reset Elites are Planning a Post-Human Future | Whitney Webb | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 269