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Ajit Pai, Chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), joined Glenn on radio to discuss the future of the internet and net neutrality. If a government regulator exists that Glenn likes, it's Ajit Pai, who stood alone in a hostile world at the FCC during the Obama administration. Pai favors light regulation to ensure consumers have a competitive choice and companies have a greater incentive to invest in the internet.
Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.
GLENN: The head of the FCC. The FCC chairman, Ajit Pai, now joins us.
Ajit, I don't know if you are aware of this at all, but we've been watching you for a while. I have -- I have no idea how you got by Obama. But we're glad you did.
AJIT: Thanks so much, Glenn. I really appreciate the kind words. And grateful to you for making time for me today.
GLENN: Oh, you bet. We have a lot of questions for you. And I want to talk to you about net neutrality. I want to talk to you about the cable industry and this cry of fake news and where you think we're going.
Let's start with probably net neutrality.
Net neutrality is -- is in some ways, a -- a nightmare and will limit people. In other ways, people will look at this and say, "Wait. I don't want my cable operator being able to pick and choose winners and slow down, you know, the speeds of YouTube, if they're trying to promote their own YouTube." Can you make the argument?
AJIT: Absolutely. I think the key point here is nothing about the internet was broken. From the dawn of the internet age in the 1990s until 2015, the internet economy in the United States was the envy of the world precisely because President Clinton and a Republican Congress agreed that instead of regulating the heck out of this new technology, we would let it develop and take targeted action as necessary.
And that's, I think, part of the reason why we saw the tremendous explosion and activity online. But in 2015, on the party-line vote, the FCC imposed these heavy-handed rules that were developed for Mondale, the telephone monopoly back in the 1930s.
And as a result, we've seen less investment in networks. We're seeing less competition than ever. And I think that's one of the things we want to address going further, is, you know, light-touch regulation I think is the best calibrated to make sure the consumers have more competitive choice, and the companies have a greater incentive to invest. And that's where we're heading.
GLENN: So how would you address -- I said this to Ray Kurzweil who is part of the Singularity University. Works for Google. And I said, "So, Ray, why wouldn't Google develop an algorithm that would find people who are using the search engine to create a bigger and better Google? Why wouldn't they just -- I mean, that's human nature to protect yourself. If somebody is coming -- you can piece together in advance, "Wait a minute. These people are looking to build a better Google." Why wouldn't you just shut them down? He said, "Oh, that would never happen because we're all good people." I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory.
But, you know, we are now in the internet age, playing devil's advocate, of these gigantic corporations that you're just not going to -- the little guy is not going to compete against Google. They're not going to compete against Apple. They're not -- you can't compete around Comcast.
AJIT: And the point I consistently made is we don't put our faith in people or in companies. What's that saying? If men were angels, no laws would be necessary.
GLENN: Right.
AJIT: Well, we have a system of laws, and interest in competition laws on one hand and consumer protection laws on the other. And those are administered by a -- say the Federal Trade Commission or Justice Department here in Washington, by state agencies across the country. So there's a whole framework of laws to protect against that kind of conduct.
What we don't need is the FCC preemptively micromanaging every single business in the United States, not just the big ones that you mentioned, but even the smaller companies that have told us we're holding back on investment now because of these heavy-handed investments.
GLENN: So we're talking to Ajit Pai, he's the chairman of the FCC. You know, as I look at the most hated services in America -- or service providers, it's your electric company, it's your insurance companies, it's your cable companies. Those are all the ones that are the most heavily regulated.
However, as somebody who has tried, without $200 million behind me, to break in and have a -- a groundswell -- a verified groundswell of -- of support behind me, these -- to break into cable is absolutely impossible if you are a voice that the companies want to block. You just can't do it. How do we balance that and make sure that, you know, the app system -- because that's why we -- that's why we're online. Okay. Well, good. We'll do it online. But how do we make sure that the app system isn't blocked now by a Comcast or an Apple, where you're just not going to get in and break through?
AJIT: That's a terrific question. And two different answers: Number one, the way you do it is by promoting more competition. You make sure that the barriers to entry, so to speak, are low. That people like you can express yourselves over a variety of different platforms. And number two, to the extent that that's a concern, remember that the people who are promoting this Title II regulation through the US government are not the friends of free speech and free expression. These groups are consistently saying that they want government control of the internet, not just for its own sake, but in order to regulate how speech and expression happens online.
GLENN: Right.
AJIT: And they've been very open about this throughout the years.
GLENN: But you can't -- as a person, I can't start my own cable company. It's all regulated. I can't start one.
AJIT: And that's why we've had a very aggressive agenda in the three months that I've been in the chairman's office to make sure that we enable more companies to make that decision, to enter the marketplace, removing some of the barriers that they found, in terms of the rules, and making it easier for them to raise capital and to enter these marketplaces. And we want the smaller companies that are getting squeezed by these regulations to finally enter the market and provide a competitive option.
GLENN: Good for you.
So help me out on this. Ted Koppel, who I have a lot of respect for, has done a lot of great journalism over his lifetime -- I was talking to him, and he was concerned about all this fake news. And I said, at the end of the day, go back to the revolutionary war, there was tons of fake news back then. We're just in a new situation. And we haven't found our way to balance it yet. But you got to trust the people.
And he immediately said, "I think that we need to start, you know, having a license for people to be on the internet and to present news. We have to verify those people who are online."
That's insane.
AJIT: I couldn't agree more. And I have a lot of respect for Ted Koppel's career. But, frankly, his comments are repugnant to the spirit and the letter of the First Amendment. In fact, that's the very reason why John Milton in 1644 wrote his great treaties on free expression, Areopagitica, where he said that, you know, look, the king has no business licensing people to allow them to speak. We -- the entire premise of western civilization is that you don't have a gatekeeper allowing you to speak only at the whim of the king. And that's the same here in the United States. The last thing I think we want is government -- sort of regulators like me deciding who speaks and who doesn't. That's the fantastic thing about the internet age, I think.
STU: Don't you think though, Glenn -- and Ajit Pai -- we're talking to the FCC chairman. You have this situation where it's not about what happened in 1644 or anything. It's about what's coming up on May 30th, which is season five of House of Cards.
JEFFY: Thank you. Thank you.
STU: People want their Netflix. They want it streamed. They don't want their evil cable company slowing it down. Is that something that needs to be regulated, or does the market actually work that stuff out?
AJIT: To me, the market works it out. The best evidence of that is the digital economy that we had, prior to 2015 when we imposed these rules.
Companies were not engaging in the blocking of lawful content. And to the extent that we have concerns about competition, the best way to get there is not by imposing these heavy-handed regulations that slow down infrastructure investment, especially by some of the smaller companies that would give you a competitive option. It's by making sure we have clear-cut rules of the road, that are market-friendly, that incentivize more companies to enter this space.
And so, you know, look, I'm all in favor of the government looking at any competitive problems as they pop up. Preemptively regulating, from the Fortune 500 companies, down to the tiny companies in Little Rock, Arkansas, is not the way to get there.
GLENN: I will tell you, Ajit, I look at this time period -- and I'd love to hear your point of view of this. I look at this time period of American history as a combination of the industrial revolution and heavy emphasis on Tesla and Edison, all in about a 20-year period. I mean, what's coming in -- in technology and communication has already been profound. But it's going to become even more profound.
And, you know, as a student of history -- and you obviously are one as well. When you look back at those days of Tesla and Edison, in many ways, Tesla was right. Edison was just good at playing the game with the government.
And he was a -- excuse my language, but a son of a bitch. And that's not French. That's English.
STU: Can we say that on the air, Mr. FCC Chairman?
GLENN: Oh, yes, I shouldn't have said that with the FCC chairman.
AJIT: I'll give you a pass, don't worry.
GLENN: Okay. Thank you.
PAT: You didn't think that one through. Did you?
GLENN: Yeah, I didn't think that one through. I forgot who we were talking to. Anyway, we never say things like that, by the way. Golly, gee, darn it. I'm sorry.
But we were pushed back because of the collusion with very powerful people like Edison and very powerful politicians. Do you see us -- how do you see what's coming our way?
AJIT: Boy, that's a great question.
I think the first thing is the empowerment of the citizen that the internet allows. It used to be that to do virtually anything, you had to work through some sort of gatekeeper. If you were buying a car, you had to go through a dealer. If you were wanting to stay in a place, you have to go book a room with a hotel.
And now, because of technology, you can do anything, basically by yourself. And that's an incredible amount of empowerment. But, on the other hand, we always have to guard against this instinct of essentially crony capitalism, the phenomenon that you talked about. And to that extent, I think what people need to understand is that heavy-handed regulation is actually the friend of bigger businesses and for those who believe in big government. Because -- the big companies are always going to have the armies of lawyers and accountants to comply with these regulations, to persuade government to do favors on this or that issue. It's the smaller companies that are disproportionately affected. And the second thing is that it's very seductive for a lot of people to think, "Well, the market just leaves consumers at the mercy of these wild and unpredictable forces." When in reality, the market has delivered more value for consumers than preemptive government regulation ever could.
I mean, the fact that we have billions of people who are emerging from poverty now is the result of free market policies. It's not because the governments of these various countries have suddenly decided to bestow largesse upon them. And so it's a case that we consistently have to make that crony capitalism and big government regulation, those are not the friends of the average consumer.
GLENN: So we have -- we have a situation now of fake news. And it's been around forever. But it's at epidemic proportions because the average person has access to everybody. And the average person, you know, unfortunately doesn't think things through and really read everything. They see a headline, they click on it, and they share it.
We have some really nefarious people, some of them in Russia, that are using our own technology against us, using our own freedoms against us. We have the press -- I told you about Ted Koppel. But we also have the president coming out and saying, you know, you're fake news. And maybe we should be able to sue you more.
Does the FCC have a role in the First Amendment in saying to all sides, "Knock it off. The freedom of the press is the freedom of the press, no matter if it's a printing press or the internet. Knock it off?"
AJIT: Well, I've consistently said -- and this goes back to my time as a commissioner up to five years ago, that one of the distinctive features of America is the fact that we have a First Amendment. It's unique in human history for the government to establish in its very founding papers the notion that anybody in this country has the ability to speak, anybody has the ability to write, anybody has the ability to worship as he or she sees fit.
And that's something that requires not just the cold parchment of the Constitution, but it requires a culture that admires that -- those freedoms. And so I've consistently spoken about -- about the need to preserve that culture of freedom for speech and free press. Because it's a slippery slope. Once you lose it, it's very hard to reclaim it.
GLENN: You have a 50 -- what is it? A 50 or 60 percent of so-called conservatives saying that there's a limit to freedom of the press. Is there?
AJIT: Well, the Constitution speaks for itself. And so long as I have the privilege of occupying this office, I'll keep defending that core constitutional freedom. It's one of the things that I think makes America a very unique place across time and across the world.
GLENN: So I think with that answer, I just have to end where I started: How the hell did you get past Barack Obama?
AJIT: That's a good question. I'm not sure how I slipped through the cracks.
GLENN: I don't know either.
AJIT: But maybe it's the -- sort of like the Forrest Gump of the Washington scene. Just kept gamboling on, and here I am.
(laughter)
GLENN: Yeah. Okay. Ajit Pai, thank you so much for talking to us.
PAT: Great.
GLENN: And keep up the good work.
AJIT: Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me on.
GLENN: You bet. Buh-bye.
PAT: And thanks for the shout-out to Areopagitica. That's -- I think that's a first.
JEFFY: Right.
GLENN: Oh, how many times have we talked about -- off the air --
PAT: All the time. All the time.
STU: Talked about all the time.
GLENN: Okay. You know what I love --
PAT: Talked about all the time. Milton's Areopagitica.
JEFFY: Right!
Minnesota is facing what may be the largest welfare fraud scheme in American history. Christopher Rufo joins Glenn Beck to expose how Somali-run networks siphoned hundreds of millions in taxpayer funds through fake child-care and food programs, money that federal officials say was funneled through Somalia’s Hawala system, where Al-Shabaab takes its cut. Rufo reveals how state leaders protected these networks, how political incentives and “suicidal empathy” blinded Minnesota’s institutions, and why the corruption spreading through the welfare system is far more widespread than anyone wants to admit. This is not just a crime story... It’s a warning about immigration policy, cultural incompatibility, and the collapse of accountability in modern liberal states.
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: So I first ran into Chris Rufo, oh, I don't even know how many lifetimes ago. He was working for the city journal. And he was starting to uncover things. And he started to do investigations on things he cared about. And all of a sudden, he's one of the best investigative reporters out there.
Extraordinarily credible.
Right almost every single time.
And he is joining us, at the Blaze. He is the host now of his own TV show. Rufo and Lomez.
And he is the guy who broke the story a couple weeks ago. About the Minnesota taxpayers who are funding a terrorist group. Al-Shabaab. I don't know. Is that a problem?
Can I ask you, am I more outraged?
And I haven't paid any Minnesota tax. Am I more outraged than the people of Minnesota?
I mean, I know there's origins up there. So Norwegians are like, yeah, sure. I mean, you know, they don't seem to get very excited about. And they're very, you know, socialized and everything else. They're very big heart. Blah, blah, blah. And they don't seem to -- you know, Swedish, Norwegian, you know. But is there any point where they're outraged? Is there any point where they're like, you know what, this socialization thing is good, but not like this? This socialized, hey, let's help everybody, but not like this. I mean, you have a billion dollars taken from the taxpayers. A billion.
Is -- and I don't hear anything from the people of -- I mean, if you're -- if you were taken for a billion dollars and your money -- you knew was being taken away from children who need food, they were faking all kinds of health issues for other children, and so taking money away from real autistic programs and then putting it in and sending it to a terror group. Wouldn't you be kind of pissed?
Because I know I would be.
Are the people in Minnesota pissed about it?
I don't know.
I mean, I don't think. If it was my state. I don't think the governor would be in the governor's office. But maybe that's just had he. Christopher Rufo joins me now.
Chris, we were just talking about -- thank you for not only this story, but all the stories and things you have exposed over the years. Thank you for doing all of the hard work, and being credible the whole time.
It doesn't -- am I more outraged by this story than the people of Minneapolis? Because they don't seem to have a problem with it. Is it just me?
JASON: It's even more bizarre, actually. You're outraged about the proper thing to be outraged about. Which is that a group that is a recent arrival was permitted, or asylum, refugee status into the United States. Has now systematically looted the Treasury of the state of Minnesota. But Minnesota politicians are also outraged, but they're outraged that we notice this.
And that we've called this out. And that we're saying, this is not okay. So you have the mayor of Minneapolis, speaking in Somali, saying that he will do whatever he can.
GLENN: Unbelievable.
CHRIS: Do whatever he can to shelter the Somali community from any criticism at all.
And, I mean, find this borderline suicidal. And the Scandinavian. Kind of the Scandinavian founding culture of Minnesota, is just being statistically exploited. And they seem to have no ability to even defend themselves against it.
GLENN: Yeah. I mean, what's happened to Sweden is happening in -- you know, in -- in Minnesota.
It's just -- they take the kindness and the socialized everything. And they just absolutely abuse it, until there is nothing left.
And, you know, I don't -- let me ask the question.
And I want to be really careful here. Because I -- and I know you're not.
Nobody is reasonably saying this. That all Somalis just want to rip us off. Not true. I think there's probably a lot of people that wanted to get away from Somalia, because it is an absolutely corrupt system.
And now, our politicians are just recreating, you know, what they had in Somalia. And I can't believe that everybody from Somalia and Minnesota is for that.
But when you -- when you look at where they came from, that is the way their government works.
It is so rife with corruption. Is this something that is being imported, or is this just a handful of bad guys?
CHRIS: Well, it's a little bit of both. And as you said, we have to be careful and precise as we think about it. What's happening, obviously, not every Somali is participating in these fraud schemes.
GLENN: Correct.
CHRIS: But it's true that many, many, many, many -- an extraordinarily high percentage of people in the Somali community were participating in these schemes, prosecutors have told me that there are dozens of these schemes that have been perpetrated. And some of them are involving dozens and in some cases hundreds of families. And so we're talking about a very high percentage of the population. But the -- the point is this: Related to immigration. We always have had an immigration system that makes group level analysis.
And so small ease, for example, for many decades, now, have been given special privileges, in America's immigration system.
You have special status for asylum, for refugee programs. And so we have rewarded Somalis on the basis of -- of a group identity.
And I think that it's totally fair to say, hey. Wait a minute.
We can't take everyone from around the world. We have to prioritize by group.
We can't judge every single human being around the world as an individual.
And the reality is that the Somali community is not coming as individuals. They're coming as a community. And so you can say, you know, there are absolutely great people. Wonderful Somalis.
The incredible Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a Somali.
Incredible woman.
GLENN: Incredible.
CHRIS: But the fact is that they're bringing the cultural systems from Somalia to the United States, and they are just fundamentally incompatible. That's the brass tacks. The bottom line. The end of the story.
And -- and what I was looking for and hoping for, was that Somali leaders would stand up and say, what's happening in our community is wrong.
We're going to work with. We're going to work with law enforcement to stamp out this corruption within our own house. But instead, they have gone just the opposite. They are promising that members of their communities. No criticism. And should operate with impunity.
GLENN: Tim Walz and even the mayor. How do they survive this?
CHRIS: Here's -- here's the actual, sad truth. I know conservatives are waiting for the backlash to sweep away these corrupt leaders and these feckless and incompetent politicians. But there's something about liberal culture, where no amount of chaos, corruption, crime, murder, you know, theft, can dissuade them from their core beliefs that our society is bad. And as a form of penance or -- or -- or kind of self-flagellation. We have to accept any amount of crime, provided that it's committed by people who can check the identity boxes. And so I'm actually pessimistic, and skeptical of the idea that Minnesota voters are going to rise up. And command that this corruption stop.
GLENN: You know, I remember Michele Bachmann came to my apartment when I was living in New York City, probably about 2008, maybe '9. And she sat me down and she said, Glenn, you have to pay attention to what's happening to my State Department, in Minnesota.
And I said, what do you mean?
She said, they're moving whole communities into Minnesota. And she's like -- and I said, communities. What do you mean?
She said, Somalis.
And I'm like, why would they be moving to Minnesota? What?
You miss being surrounded by feet of snow for six months out of the year? And she said, no. She said, it is the State Department.
It's like they selected, you know, Minnesota, and moved people in as a communist community.
Was this -- was this done. I mean, I'm having a hard time separating.
Like USAID.
I know what that is. We all know what that is. This is corruption. And they knew exactly what they were doing.
Is this incompetence, just corruption?
Is there planning involved in this.
Is this, you know, I hate America so much.
Cloward and Piven.
What is this?
GLENN: So there are two arguments that have been floated to answer, this an attempt to answer this question.
The first argument is that the left knows how to gain power. And by importing dependent foreign groups into the -- into the populace, they have a client that can provide them with votes. In exchange for patronaging. Or in this case, corruption.
And that is a strategy to amplify their own domestic political power. The other hypothesis. And I think for me, the more persuasive hypothesis. Is that this is just simple, liberal, naivete. And a kind of suicidal empathy, where they are blind to the consequences of their own actions.
They judge on inputs rather than outputs. And for them, the measure is how compassionate they can be.
And any imposition of limits or consequences is seen as a violation of core liberal principles. You know, it might be a combination of the two. But I don't -- you know, again, barring evidence that emerges, I would assume that it's more the latter than the former.
GLENN: How do we know for sure that money went to Al-Shabaab?
CHRIS: Great question. First of all, there have been schemes over the last decade, where counterterrorism officials tell me that every time they're looking at ISIS recruiting, al-Shabaab recruiting, radical Islamist recruiting, Minneapolis always shows up. And, in fact, it's really the epicenter of foreign terror recruitment in the United States of America. But on a particular question of Al-Shabaab, there is the testimony of multiple counterterrorism officials who told us, hey. Some of this money is getting siphoned off. And essentially taxed by the Al-Shabaab terror network. Once it leaves the United States. And goes into the Somali informal banking system. But this is really not in dispute. Even a left-evening group like the foundation for domestic democracy has long noted that Al-Shabaab skins almost all remittance that travel through the country of Somalia.
And, therefore, it stands to reason, if -- if people are stealing from the Minnesota government, sending that money back to Somali, through the remittence system, and Al-Shabaab is taking their cut. We're talking about a significant amount of money, whether it's intentional or unintentional, that the end result is the same. Al-Shabaab is receiving American taxpayer dollars that were stolen and routed through their network.
STU: So how is this stopped?
Because I don't think anything in Minnesota will happen. How's this stop?
It feels honestly. Know better than I do. It feels like the tip of the iceberg. I mean, today, the story from the GAO on Obamacare. That's completely out of control. USAID. This is happening.
I mean, tip of the iceberg. How do we stop this, if our politicians won't do anything in the states?
CHRIS: Well, there's two things that we can do. I think first off, in this particular case. Federal prosecutors have done a great job, uncovering these Somali fraud rings. And implementing prosecutions. And so they really deserved enormous credit.
But the federal government should do much more.
And I would recommend that Health and Human Services. And other departments at the federal level. Start all payments to Minnesota. Until they have a third party audit. Until they get their fraud under control.
And, you know, ultimately, you have to stop giving these people money, if you want them to change their behavior. And so I think a stop payment order on all federal funding to Minnesota programs where there are suspicions of fraud. Will help clean things up fairly quickly.
The reality is, we have a system in the United States. Where it's always a third party payer.
Health insurance, welfare programs. Food stamps, autism services.
Whatever it might be. These are massive third person payer programs. The incentives are, you know, not aligned with people actually enforcing the rules. And they become easy targets for fraudsters.
And so Minnesota used to be famous for honesty, fair dealing, good government.
GLENN: Oh, yeah.
CHRIS: And in just a short number of decades, their reputation has now been completely inverted.
And it is, by all accounts. From all of the research that I've done, I think this is likely the largest statistic welfare fraud scheme, in American history.
America is witnessing cultural changes at a pace few expected, and even fewer are willing to talk about. Glenn Beck and Allie Beth Stuckey expose the growing concern among everyday Americans, especially mothers, as mosques replace churches, schools switch to halal-only menus, neighborhoods lose Christmas traditions, and crime spikes in communities transformed by rapid Islamic immigration. While politicians look away for the sake of power, ordinary families feel silenced, shamed, and increasingly unsafe. Glenn and Allie reveal how secularism failed to hold the line, how progressive politics weaponized empathy, and why many believe the West is approaching a cultural and spiritual breaking point.
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: It's amazing to me how this -- the awareness of this Islamic takeover of the west, how quickly it is spreading, and how quickly people are waking up.
I don't know about the politicians. But the average person is really starting to wake up to this. Don't you think?
ALLIE: Absolutely. And, of course, you have been warning about this for years. But I think a lot of people are just seeing it infiltrate their neighborhoods.
There's mosques, where there used to be churches. And office buildings. There are people wearing hijabs. At their elementary schools. Middle school.
People celebrating Christmas and Hanukkah around this. And you're told that you're not allowed to notice this.
And you're certainly not allowed to care about this.
There's no such thing as American culture.
You can't care about sharing the celebrations with your neighbors.
But people do care.
It's very unsettling. And a lot of people are just finding the words and the courage to say something about it.
GLENN: You know, I don't have a problem with, you know, Halal, or kosher, or anything.
I don't have a problem.
But I do have a problem that my kid's school now has to only serve Halal food.
So wait a minute.
What. What's up with that?
And that's happening all over Texas. Where Halal is your choice now.
And I just --
ALLIE: Right. Can we have a conversation about this, please?
I think what most people just want. Can we at least have a conversation about what's happening in our country?
ALLIE: Right. You know, I asked my Instagram followers. Vast majority are women. Probably 85 percent stay-at-home moms. And when I asked this question -- my followers were about 850,000 on Instagram. And I just said. Totally open-ended. Wasn't looking for a particular answer.
Hey, what is your biggest concern with America right now?
I was just trying to come up with topics for my show. The number one answer over and over and over again was the spread of Islamic dominance, where they are living, in America, in the West. This is very destabilizing for a lot of people. And they're seeing it, not just affect people far off like we used to. But affect their own neighborhoods and their own schools. And so, you know, usually politicians kind of take a while to wake up to what the populace is really scared of.
We have seen some good action in Texas for sure. But this is a real problem. And it's not just an illegal immigration problem. That's the uncomfortable part of it. This is a cultural issue. This is an immigration issue in general.
So we need the people in Washington and in Austin, to come up with the solutions for the people who are concerned about this.
GLENN: So you said that your audience is concerned because it affects them.
How does it affect them?
ALLIE: Well, I think that they're scared of the violent crime that they've seen in places maybe in their own cities. Certainly in places where Islam has to me natured. When we look at places like Dearborn, Michigan.
When we look at our friends across the pond. That sexual crimes. Violent crimes. All increase, disproportionately when there is a large-scale importation of people from these Muslim majority countries. It doesn't mean they're all like that.
It doesn't mean that they can't be good neighbors.
But this is not only a cultural change. This is not only a shift in how their neighborhoods look and feel and the celebration and things like that.
But this also is potentially a threat to their own safety. Especially the safety of their daughters.
And people care about that.
GLENN: I was talking to somebody who was doing a posts with somebody over in London.
Yesterday. And he was talking about this. And I said, you know, I -- I -- I'm not -- you know, I don't follow the news all the time.
You know, closely like I do in America.
About, you know, the United Kingdom. But what I'm seeing coming out of Ireland. And when you think about Ireland. You think of a very Catholic country.
You know, or a Protestant. A very Christian country.
ALLIE: Right.
GLENN: And they fought wars over their own Christianity.
It is almost completely gone now.
You have to go to the way, way outskirts. You know, the northern part of the island, to find that kind of community. The Irish have almost been completely wiped out.
There's very few churches left. They're all being converted into mosques. And, you know, okay. Well, it passes. Et cetera, et cetera.
But to not notice, and not say, wait a minute.
That is the erasing of an entire people and their culture. And that culture is very important to the West.
ALLIE: Right.
GLENN: Should we not care about that?
ALLIE: Right. Well, certainly progressives care about it, when it comes to, you know, non-British. Non-British countries. Or countries that are not America.
They call that colonialism. They call that imperialism.
But apparently, when Muslims do this, it's fine. But the problem was not for Islam. The problem was secularization. The lesson there is that secularism doesn't whole. Atheism -- agnosticism don't hold.
People are looking for meaning. And eventually, ideology in one religion will win.
And right now, Islam and a lot of countries is winning.
GLENN: Yeah. You know, you wrote a book on toxic empathy.
And I think it's a mistake on this one to say, it is empathy that we have gone down the road.
I think this is -- especially if you look in Minnesota.
They turned a blind eye to what's going on in -- in Minnesota.
And I -- I'll bet you in Michigan as well.
Because if you don't have the Muslim population on your side. You're not going to be elected governor.
You're not going to be mayor. So it's not empathy. It's all politics. Which makes it even more grotesque.
But when I see us turning a blind eye to it. We're now entering the time of suicide. And those who are in power, are the -- the doctors engaging in medical assisted suicide for their country.
They know what they're doing at this point. They're just choosing their power, and hold on to their power for as long as they can.
Do you think toxic empathy at this point is still playing a role in this Islamic, you know, hostile, political takeover?
ALLIE: Yeah, I absolutely do. Now, do I think that's the case for Tim Walz or any of these? You know, probably not.
It's probably power. It's fear, as you said.
But for the average person, especially for the woman. Especially for the person who has been told that loving your neighbor means just accepting all forms of people, no matter what their behavior is.
Then, yeah. I do think people are more scared of Islamophobia. Or being called an Islamophobe. When they see the Islamification of their neighborhood. In fact, I think that they think their virtue is tied to how much they like Halal.
And how much they accept the -- the building of mosques around their neighborhood.
And so I do think people feel so strongly, that being exclusive or intolerant, in any way, is a sign of being a bad person.
That they won't speak up.
Because the media social incentives for speaking up against Islam, or against policies. Or anything.
It just, it doesn't exist.
The social incentives in the immediate is to be as progressive as possible.
People respond to incentives. So I think that's a big part of what's going on.
GLENN: Love to hear your comments on Trump over the holiday.
Tweeted out, the official United States foreign population stands at 53 million people.
Most of which are on welfare. From failed nations or from prisons. Mental institutions. Gangs or drug cartels. They and their children are supported through massive payments from patriotic American citizens who because of beautiful hearts do not want to openly complain or cause any trouble in any way, shape, or form. They have put up with what's been happening to our country. But it's eating them alive to do so.
Wow. That's not very empathetic, is it?
ALLIE: Right. That's exactly what he's talking about is toxic empathy. He's talking about our compassion as Americans being weaponized against us. The problem, I wouldn't have said it's a problem. But now it's becoming a problem. For conservatives, we're thinking individually.
We're thinking about our family. And we're thinking, okay. Whatever. Just take my taxes. Do what you have to do. I will keep my head down.
I will work hard. I will move further outside the city. I am going to homeschool.
All of this, and kind of be a recluse, as long as my family is safe. As long as I can make money. As long as things are okay here, then I'll be fine.
Well, progressives for the most part, don't think that way.
They think collectively. They are looking to build a coalition. We are just thinking about our family. And about our immediate future. In our local community.
And that's not really a fair fight, when you have someone who is thinking in the big sense of what we're thinking.
And so he's absolutely right. And that is one weakness that we Christians and conservatives have, even if we're right in thinking that way.
It's hurting us now, especially in ideology, in Islam, that means submission. They're looking to conquer. And conservatives in general, we just haven't been thinking that way.
GLENN: I was talking to Jack (inaudible) from the United Kingdom, and I said, how close are you guys to Civil War?
I mean, I see what's going on. And, you know, collapse. And it's bad.
And he said, I think it's beyond saving, except for God.
What came to mind was, yeah. I agree with that. Except, you've become a godless country. I mean, the Church of England just raised the Islamic flag over the Church of England last week.
What God is there?
He said that there was a resurgence of faith, which would be great.
But how do we fix this, Allie?
ALLIE: Gosh, I pray to the Lord, that that is true. That there is some kind of revival that we don't see. It's important to know that God works -- it's not always a headline. It doesn't always go viral.
It seems he's doing one thing. He's actually doing a million things in unseen and unsung words, such as faithful believers, that may not have radio shows, their podcasts, but they are doing God's word.
And so I pray to the Lord, that that is true. I can't imagine like a better signifier that you've been conquered than another ideology raising its flag over your territory. That is literally a sign that you have been conquered. But God. But God can do anything.
We can pray. He works through the prayer of believers.
He works through the obedience of believers. The boldness of evangelism of believers. We can't all change the world.
But we can be faithful with whatever spot of eternity God has providentially placed us in to make it for the glory of God.
To share the gospel. And to speak beauty and truth and goodness into whatever sphere we occupy. That is the responsibility of a Christian.
That is how God has moved mountains for over 2,000 years, and I think he will continue to.
GLENN: Allie Beth, thank you. God bless you.
ALLIE: Thank you very much.
GLENN: You bet.
A deeply emotional conversation at Mar-a-Lago left Glenn Beck shaken, echoing the same chilling feeling he first experienced years ago during a private discussion with Charlie Kirk — long before Charlie’s recent assassination. As Glenn recounts his talk with Dave Rubin about danger, spiritual warfare, and the future of America, he warns that we are entering a moment where good and evil are unmistakably visible. From the overwhelming sense of divine presence at Charlie’s funeral to the rising chaos Glenn believes is driven by darker forces, this time feels less like politics and more like history unfolding in real time. The question now is simple but urgent: in a world losing its mind, which side will you choose — truth and light, or confusion and darkness?
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: So yesterday, I -- I -- I posted this when I got home. A picture my wife took of Dave and I.
We were kind of backstage at Mar-a-Lago. And we sat there for probably half an hour. And had a really honest conversation about what's happening in the world.
What's coming our way. And, you know, some things that are just concerning to both of us.
And I'm not going to get into all the details. Because I don't have permission to tell you everything that Dave said. I did ask him last night, if I could share some of this with you.
You know, he is -- he is Jewish. He's gay. He's married.
And he has two adopted children.
I mean, what else could -- leper? What else box could you check that would make you less popular in what the world that we're seeing come our way?
And he's a reasonable guy. He's a really reasonable guy. And, you know, when we talked years ago, when he was adopted. He was on the show. And he was like, Glenn. I've got to tell you. I've changed so much.
I don't -- I don't know how to justify -- because I know that it's best to have kids with a mom and a dad. And I believe in that. And I -- you know, I just don't know what to say. He was a guy in conflict when it happened. He's not in conflict now. He loves his children. Loves his children. And they're in a very stable home.
He would tell you not the ideal home. Because that would be a mom and a dad. But a great home.
And he said, I am finding myself in a situation to where, I mean, I just don't know what's coming.
And we talked about it. And I shared with him some things that I thought were coming.
Exactly what I did and I didn't realize it, at the time, until I walked away.
Exactly the way I did with Charlie Kirk.
When Charlie came to me in 2018, 2019, and he said, you've always been ahead of the curve. What's coming next.
And I said, well, I mean, if you just study history, Charlie. There's really two things that are left. One, is assassinations. And the second is war. And he talked about Donald Trump and that -- that they would try to assassinate. And I said, yeah. Honestly, Charlie. I think you and me are on that list too.
I said, one of us could go down in this as well.
We'll be targets as well. And we stood there. And I've told this story a million times. We stood there on the balcony of this hotel.
And we just looked over the ocean for a while. And we were both quiet.
And I think he said, one of us said, I can't believe we're having this conversation, and the other one said, I know. It's like we're in a movie, right? It's not real.
And lo and behold, just a couple years after, a few years later, Charlie is assassinated. David and I were having a conversation, and I said, Dave, I hope I'm wrong. But this is the way things could shape up.
And we talked about it for a while. And just as I was getting ready to walk away, he said, I can't believe we're having this conversation.
It's like we're in a movie. And I said, yeah. I -- I know that feeling. And then I walked away.
And when I got to my wife's side, I said, I'm sorry, I'm just really freaked out because of what Dave said to me.
Because of the last time somebody said that to me was Charlie.
We are living in extraordinary times. Extraordinary times. And we are seeing for the first time, we're seeing good and evil.
We are! We're -- we're seeing -- and in ways we've never seen before. You know, when the assassin tried to kill Charlie, he thought, there would be an equal and opposite reaction to that act.
And it would be that people would either side with him. Or they would rise up and they would start killing, you know, the left. And we would -- we would go into that Civil War thing.
But that's not what happened. An opposite action happened, as a reaction.
But it was not equal.
It was so far beyond equal.
That it was -- that it was clearly divine.
1.5 million people around the world watched. I'm sorry. 1.5 billion people watched that Charlie Kirk funeral. And that Charlie Kirk funeral happened, and if you were there, I don't know if you could feel it while watching it. I -- I imagine you could. But I'm telling you in the room, I've never felt anything like it.
You could feel the spirit there. I mean, it was like God was there. And every time somebody got up and started speaking about politics, you could feel the spirit withdraw. And then they would start talking about, you know, universal principles.
And the spirit would come back to the room.
It was amazing. And I wasn't just the only one feeling it. I had people around me. Elon Musk was two rose behind me.
Everyone around me were talking about, are you all feeling that?
This is amazing.
That was God! Showing up.
So the unequal, but opposite reaction was God working a miracle.
The only way I can understand what's happening, in our world today, where we have gone insane.
We've gone insane.
People that I know have lost their minds. We can't -- suddenly, we can't have conversations about things that have been settled for a very long time.
And suddenly, you're -- you have to be an enemy. That's why, when I talk about these things, I don't want to single out anybody. Because I'm not going to make this personal. I'm not going to make this personal.
I want to make this about the facts. Because the minute we make this personal, then we're immediately enemies of one another. And I don't -- there's one enemy, and it's the author of chaos. And that's who I fight.
God shows up. Now, what's the equal and opposite reaction? Because every action has an equal and opposite reaction. I really believe Satan showed up.
God shows up. We have this resurgence of faith, this explosion. And then Satan shows up.
And all of a sudden, we're talking about insane things. Like, all of a sudden, you know, Jews rule the world. And -- and I hate Israel. And, you know, it's insanity. Insane stuff that we've always known was insane.
We're watching for the first time. We're watching the big boys play.
And we are pawns.
You just have to -- you just have to make sure you're on the right side of the board.
You know, who -- who are you a tool?
Whose hand are you in?
You on the good side, or the dark side?
Because you have to make that decision right now. And the way to make that decision is just to remember what you've always known to be true.
What is true?
When you know those things and you stay anchored in those things, it's going to be okay.
But if it feels like we're living in a movie, in some ways, we are. It just hasn't been made yet. But believe me, there will be movies made about this time.
And about people that you may know. There will be movies made.
How that is portrayed in the end, I'm not sure. But I do know that every time in human history, every time this road has been traveled. There is a winning side.
And the other side destroys itself and its civilization.
So to me, it's pretty clear. But it's for each of us to find.
Just do it peacefully. Make no enemies. Make no enemies.
I remember one time, we were in the throes of just real attacks. On every front.
And I thought, my whole world was coming apart. And it didn't matter what I did. What I said. Where I was. It didn't matter. Just attack, attack, attack, attack.
And I asked the Lord in prayer, you know, help me.
Help me. How do I defeat these enemies?
And once in a while, once if had a great while, I'll feel like he -- that I almost hear him.
And I don't know how to describe it. It's -- it's like I hear the words. But not hear the words. You know, I just know what he's saying.
And sometimes, it's so clear. It's jaw-dropping. And I remember in prayer, and I'm talking about, how do I defeat these enemies, et cetera, et cetera?
And it was so clear. And what I heard was, firmly, stop. These are not enemies of yours. They are enemies of mine.
These are my rights.
And I will solve the problem with my enemies.
You do the right thing.
Okay.
So I don't want to make any more enemies.
Because they're not enemies of mine.
They're his -- his enemies.
Anybody who is standing against the rights of all men, anyone who is standing against the Bill of Rights, the idea that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator. They're not my enemy.
I mean, I view them that way. But they're ultimately his enemy.
I need to remain on his side. That's all I need to do. Remain on his side. And when he tells me to act and tells me what to do, I will do it. And so far, all I know, is make no more enemies.
Just speak the truth plainly. Clearly.
Just keep saying the truth. The things that you have always known that are universally true.
I'll take care of the rest.
Islamism is advancing inside the U.S. through Minnesota’s massive welfare fraud tied to Al-Shabaab, Sharia-style tribunals in Texas, Muslim Brotherhood campus networks, and failed immigration vetting that led to a CIA-trained Afghan migrant killing a National Guardsman. Glenn Beck ties these stories to the Muslim Brotherhood's 100-year plan to conquer the West, which is reportedly halfway complete. Europe has already lived through this collapse. British writer and podcaster Peter McIlvenna joins to reveal the parallels between Britain and what he saw while visiting Texas, and he reacts to Gov. Greg Abbott and President Trump cracking down on the Muslim Brotherhood.
