STU: Amazing that they changed the voting age to 18. Because if you're old enough to get drafted, go to the military, well, then, of course, you should be able to vote. It's totally sensible idea. Although, I know Pat will come in later today and will tell us that the voting should be 35. On the other side of that, one of the things that 16-year-olds are pushing for is that you should not be able to own a firearm until you're 21. So you would be able to get drafted to the military, to use a firearm in the military, but not own one for your own protection at home.
It's a fascinating thing to think about. And I don't think the right one. I don't think the right one. Again, we don't make -- you know, 16-year-olds --
GLENN: How many great decisions did you make as a 16-year-old?
STU: Well, me. Obviously lots of great ones. But most people don't.
Of course not. You're not seasoned enough. And you don't understand these issues enough. Beyond that, like, if you're 50 years old -- we've seen this before. Well, let's go to the 50-year-old parent or grandparent of one of these kids who was killed. And they'll come out with their gun -- their gun solution for America.
You don't make policy based on the victims of a tragedy.
STU: You don't become an expert in the topic because something terrible happened to you.
I -- for example, my dad died of a heart attack. I don't go to hospitals and tell them to do their heart surgery with spoons. That's not -- I don't have any extra credibility on the topic because I was involved in a tragedy in my family.
GLENN: Now, you could take that tragedy and become a scholar on it.
GLENN: You could say, I'm going to learn everything I can. I'm just tired of having a discussion of the Second Amendment, with people who do not know what a gun is. They've never fired it. They don't know -- they've never been around it. They've never been around people who are responsible gun owners.
I don't -- if you don't take the time to really learn what the gun is and can really talk to me about the truth of the Constitution, the Constitution and the Second Amendment was not about sporting. It wasn't.
It was about people being able to take up arms against an out-of-control government. Now, you can say, well, that's -- they're never going to get out of control. Or, well, they get out of control, they're just going to use tanks.
Well, yes. But every single time there has been a dictator, the first thing they do is take away all weapons from the people. And then they slaughter them.
At least give us a fighting chance.
STU: Yeah, as we pointed out, the mass shooting -- Vegas was the worst mass shooting in history. No. First of all, the worst mass shooting in that context was Norway. But beyond that, the top 100,000 mass shootings all came from governments against unarmed populace. You think there was a day that went by in World War II, where the Nazis didn't kill 58 people? I don't think there was a day that went by, where the communists didn't kill 58 people.
GLENN: Their own citizens.
STU: Yeah, their own citizens. This was a light day for all of these governments when there was no way to push back against them. And, you know, look, that's why it was designed. It's used for personal protection, as well as a massive -- you know, it's the main reason for it now. Of course, hunting is part of it. And all of that is a part of it.
But it's not about those individual things. It's about you being able to utilize that right in the way that you see fit, without violating other's rights. But, again, I think when you talk about gun knowledge, it is important.
You can get into the weeds a little bit too much. But listen to this, this comes from the statesman journal. This is a letter to the editor they decided to print: Every killer needs three things, an evil mindset, an opportunity, and the means to carry out their plan. Break that chain, and you've stopped a killer.
It's hard to know a person's ever changing mindset and opportunity is everywhere. That leaves means. Prevent future killings from obtaining the automatic weapon, and you've stopped a mass killing.
Yes, other weapons can kill too. But none are so deadly as an automatic rifle. We know what doesn't work, prayer doesn't work. It might make us feel better and make the survivors feel better. But it doesn't stop the next shooting. Blame the NRA doesn't work either. They don't pass any laws and can't regulate their industry. A good guy with a gun doesn't work.
This Florida school had two on-duty police officers assigned to it, which is something else we should discuss. But banning automatic weapons, you will not stop any mass killings -- and you will stop many mass killings. Excuse me.
And at the same time, you'll be protecting the most basic right our Constitution has to offer: the right to life.
GLENN: Can I just point out a couple of things?
STU: Is there a minor issue?
GLENN: We have banned automatic weapons.
GLENN: Yeah, so.
STU: Again, it's hard to have a debate on this topic, when the overwhelming majority of discussing it don't have basic knowledge on the topic. That is a difficult thing to do. You don't need to know everything about a gun.
STU: You don't need to be a gun nerd to have these conversations. But you have to know the basics.
GLENN: You have to have the basic knowledge. And, quite honestly, you -- I think -- look, I can understand people who have never grown up around guns. I can understand it. I can understand people who are afraid of guns because they never had any experiences with them.
GLENN: And they grew up, let's say even in a city, where you grew up in New York. I understand that. Now, can you understand that every time you talk about a gun being something bad, I feel my grandfather. I remember holding his hand with his gun, underneath his arm, as we walked every night on the back of our farm.
I mean, it is --
GLENN: It was a feeling of safety.
STU: Part of culture.
GLENN: And culture. We didn't have bad experiences with guns. Because we respected them.
So it's part of the culture.
It's not part of your culture. That's okay.
But it is uniquely American, at least in the center of the country. And you can't just dismiss that.
STU: You can't. And it's amazing to watch cable news hosts be fascinated by the fact that we just can't do something. Every time there's another one of these attacks.
And what do we do? We don't do anything. And they miss the basic separation of the way these two things are coming together. The reason you don't get, quote, unquote, common sense middle ground gun control.
GLENN: Because you're not going for it.
STU: Well, first of all, they're not going for it. And every conservative looks at that, and reflexes immediately because they feel --
GLENN: The dog whistle.
STU: Yeah, they feel you're going after their guns. And many times, you've admitted that you are.
GLENN: Yes. Eric Holder.
Australia, for example. Every time we bring up the word Australia, what you're saying is you want to take 30 percent of the guns out of the country. So how do you think that a gun owner would feel about that?
But the bottom line, the basic thing is, even on these minor things, progressives, liberals, the left, look at guns as something that is inherently dangerous. And, therefore, we should stop every person from getting one, unless we're sure that they're going to use it safely.
On the other side, conservatives, Libertarians, look at guns as constitutionally protected. Therefore, only if you're sure the person isn't going to use them safely, do we take them away. With extreme mental health. Or, you know, convictions in the past and domestic violence and things like that.
So that expression, there's a lot of middle ground between those two positions. But there's almost no room to compromise between them.
You know, it's the idea of saying, if one side of the argument is, look, people are innocent until proven guilty. And the other people on the other side are saying, people are guilty until proven innocent.
Well, there's a lot of middle ground between those two positions. But there's no place to compromise. There's not an innocent until proven innocent place in the middle that you can come together.
Right? It doesn't make any sense. The positions don't work together. And, of course, I fully 100 percent believe their conservative position is right. They're constitutionally protected. And you can't just start grabbing them from everybody.
STU: That's why the example they always bring up is, we couldn't even ban terrorists on the terrorist watch list from getting guns. That shows how irrational conservatives are.
No. It shows that conservatives understand this is a constitutionally protected right. And just because someone has made a list with a name on it, without any due process, without any evidence being presented, without any -- tons and tons of mistakes. You can't take away a constitutionally protected right because of that. We would never do that with the First Amendment.
We would never do that with any of these amendments. They're all too important to us. And we all understand them. The Second Amendment has just become this issue that the left throws around to get donations. And there are a lot of honest people who are on Facebook or on Twitter who are tauting these things. Like, the NRA is donating money, and they're controlling the debate. There's been 18 school shootings.
GLENN: It's not.
STU: They're being used by the left leadership who don't want to do anything to protect these victims. Because they like this issue. They like the issue far too much.
And obviously they don't want people to die. Nobody does. But they see this -- they could take steps that are unrelated to gun control, that the right would go along with. But they're in a period here, where conservatives have -- or at least the Republicans have the House, the Senate, and the presidency. Your time to pass wide swaths of gun control was probably when you had all three of those and you didn't do it.
Now you don't have any of them. You're not going to get that through right now. If you could focus on things that could actually help, that you could work together, there would be a middle place there. You know, it's just not about gun control.
GLENN: Well, because nobody is -- truly, nobody is trying to help. Nobody is trying to solve this. Nobody.
STU: It's depressing. It really is.
GLENN: It is. They're not trying to solve it. All they're trying to do is win. We lose once we decided we must win. And everybody is just trying to win. And I don't mean win the Constitution. I mean, you're just trying to win the next election. It doesn't matter.
You just want verbal ammunition that you can spray the other side with when it comes election time.