NIH Director Dr. Jay Bhattacharya joins Glenn Beck to explain the Trump administration’s warning that Tylenol may be linked to autism. “Talk to your doctor,” he urges, as he explains what the announcement really meant. Plus, he provides evidence that this warning is nothing new.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: The world has gone insane. And ever the people are now just -- just swallowing handfuls of Tylenol. Just to I guess prove Donald Trump wrong or what. I don't know what it is. It's just the lack of sanity, I think. We have one person now in the hospital. She was making one of these videos. She was pregnant.

She swallowed a handful.

And now she's on a ventilator.

You know, Tylenol. We all know this. It's good for you, to some degree. Too much, and it's really, really bad for you.

You know, I don't understand -- I do not believe that the -- the -- the NIH director was ever saying, you know. It's bad. It's evil. And you can't ever take it.

No. It was a recommendation. We can find out now. Because Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is with us now.

Doctor, how are you, sir?

JAY: I'm good, Glenn. So good to be on the show with you. Really honored by the invitation.

GLENN: Oh, you're doing a fabulous job. You really are. Can't thank you enough. Can you please sort through this madness on Tylenol?

TODD: First of all, what you started with, absolutely heartbreaking. If you're listening, and don't -- don't overdose, don't take too much Tylenol.

I mean, it's well-known to cause liver toxicities if you overdose. You know, if you're not pregnant and you have a headache or a fever, it's fine. Just take it at the right dose. Don't overdo it.

And certainly, don't overdo it to make some ridiculous political point. It's just heartbreaking to hear that story, someone whose liver failed because of some crazy politics. The key thing that we found, that led to the announcement. Is that there's been a whole sort of range of research, in recent years.

That establishes that there's a association between taking Tylenol late in pregnancy and subsequent neural conditions like autism. Like ADHD.

There's a big fight in the literature over how strong that association is. Right?

So some people think it's really strong. And I also think it's less strong.

In my review of the literature, I thought that -- that there's enough there to tell people, especially pregnant women, to be careful with it. If you have a high fever, there's no other way to manage it, then yeah.

You should with your doctor, take some. So that you can manage the fever, which should develop for moms. But if you -- some other -- less harmful than that. Less serious than that. Then avoid taking it. It's good medicine.

I believe I have an obligation when I see something in the scientific literature, that people should know about, to help them make decisions that are alive, that I should be able to tell people with the caveats, exactly as I've said.

And that's exactly what we were doing in the last few days. Is tell people, look, there is this literature.

Most people, I talk to, don't know about. They don't realize --

GLENN: I'm looking at a Reuters story from 2013: Too much Tylenol in pregnancy could affect development. Too much frequent use towards the end of pregnancy, may be linked to poorer language skills and behavior problems, among children, according to a new study.

I mean, this has not been a secret, and I don't understand why all of a sudden, this is insane.

Because did you ever -- ever intend on saying, you cannot take it? We're banning it. Or were you just saying, hey, you should be careful of this. There are studies that show this. You should just be aware.

JAY: Yeah, it's certainly the latter, Glenn. We were aiming to tell moms, you know, pregnant moms, who were -- that there is this evidence, and so just be careful.

Talk to your doctor before you take it. Even the Tylenol label says to talk -- to be careful with pregnancy.

Because there aren't great, you know, toxicology studies that were done in pregnant women before Tylenol was approved for the population at large.

It's an over-the-counter drug. It has its uses. But, you know, be aware of when it's appropriate to use it, when it's not. That was what we were saying. You know, I think the key thing here is, it's -- it's something called Trump Derangement Syndrome. Right? You have President Trump.

I remember during -- in 2020, President Trump said, we should open schools. You remember that?

And then all of a sudden, all these groups, before he said that in favor of opening schools, somehow all of a sudden changed their mind in contradiction to what the scientific evidence was saying, is that we should close schools. There's something very odd about how some people react to what President Trump said.

It's a -- it's a more charismatic version of what I just said.

Like he said, don't take it. Unless you need to take it. Unless you really need it.

That's the sum and substance of what he said. And that's actually wise advice. Pregnant women.

Think carefully about what he said, about this evidence. I don't want five years from now, I could have -- these debates are resolved, and maybe turns out, it is actually directly linked to autism. For years of people taking it, thinking that we don't know, when you can just say now, do prudent medicine, take it if you only need it.

GLENN: I just don't understand how this is twisted into something fascistic.

There's a post from 2017 from Tylenol that's going viral right now. It says, we actually don't recommend using any of our products while pregnant. Thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns today.

A representative from the parent company said, the statement was incomplete, but what was that about? Do you know?

How long have we known about any potential problems?

JAY: Well, okay. So -- so the issue here is that the company, the FDA, regulates what it can and can't say. Right?

So it's not allowed -- for pregnant women, it's not allowed to say, you can take it if you're pregnant.

Because they have never tested it on women, formally, in a way that satisfies the FDA. It's very difficult to do these kinds of studies on pregnant women. Because you recruit a whole bunch of women who are expecting -- you know, expecting, and then saying, "Well, I'm going to randomize you, and give some of you Tylenol. Some of you placebo, and we'll see what happens." That kind of study would be pretty hard to organize, and it's unethical almost.

And so they don't have any evidence on this. And so they're supposed to say, as they did in 2017, that, you know, we can't recommend pregnant women take it.

Because they don't have evidence to document its safety. To get the satisfaction from the FDA. The game play, that is, doctors can tell you whatever they want. They're not limited by the FDA. Appropriate. Right? Doctors.

GLENN: Yes.

JAY: Your individual situation and make state recommendations.

GLENN: Yes.

JAY: And so, again, that's essentially what we were saying to the public.

You really need to talk to your doctor and decide, knowing for you with the literature.

This is -- the president has announced essentially, that a form of informed consent in the public.

There's this literature, it's worth thinking about.

And be careful. Think about it, when you need it. When you don't need it.

And talk to your doctor, especially if you're pregnant.

GLENN: So let me -- let me -- I would imagine, when you guys decided to bring this out.

It was like a Monday blip.

It was just, hey. Yeah. Let's go ahead and release it.

Then it's turned into some nightmare. And you have other initiatives on how you're going to tackle the autism epidemic.

What are you going to -- what?

I mean, this was Tylenol. What are you expecting? And what's coming?

TODD: I know. Glenn, it's so weird.

I mean, I flew to DC. So I guess maybe I'm still learning.

I thought the big news from this, that was we -- we are. And I just launched this massive autism data science initiative. Where we've gotten a dozen research teams.

Examining the question. Thirteen actually. Examining the question of, what is the cause of autism?

And why has it risen so high in prevalence over 20 years? These are mysteries to medical science. I don't know the full answer.

It's fairly complicated, whatever it is.

But we're finally starting to ask the questions in a way that will likely produce answers. I thought this would be the big news out of this.

There was also a big announcement of this new treatment. This treatment that a lot of doctors found effective. Were some -- not all. But some kids were profoundly autistic.

In some cases, I've seen case reports, which restored speech. You know, it's a drug called Leucovorin, that's been used for 40 years.

Basically, it helps bring folate of a vitamin into your brain. The theory, that there's folate deficiency in some autistic kids in brains early in development. That's really exciting. We're telling people about this investigation, make an indication change so that it will be more widely available. EMS can get it. If you have Medicaid or other kinds of insurance. It can help a lot of families. I thought those would be the -- the crazy hits of Tylenol.

GLENN: Is this -- do you think this was coordinated, or was this just a bunch of mad people?

JAY: I talked to -- I don't know, Glenn. It strikes me that so many of the people that are sort of chiming in from the medical -- on the medical side, in panic over this. The same people who pushed lock downs.

GLENN: I know.

JAY: And like toddler masking.

And school closures. And vaccine mandates and all the rest. And, you know, many of them have been Ukraine war experts and Gaza war experts. And who knows what else. So it's -- it's striking that we have such a great expert class in this country.

GLENN: I keep coming back to, this is what I want the FDA to do.

The National Institute of Health, FDA. What I want them to do is make recommendations.

Follow the research. And then say, hey. We recommend this. We don't recommend this. You should know this. They should have to tell you that.
I don't want them making decisions for me.

I want my doctor to make the decisions. And this was the -- this was the least autocratic thing I've seen in probably 20 years. And it was like Hitler himself made this declaration.

JAY: I mean, yeah. Just, it's mind-boggling. I mean, the -- many of the things -- quote, experts that are taking this in a hyperbolic way, were absolutely fine, when people were getting fired over the vaccine mandates.

I just don't -- and there was no good science behind their recommendations over the vaccine mandates. The vaccine didn't stop you from getting and spreading COVID.

So why the mandates?

It's -- I think people need to just stop and take a breath, and say, look, what is actually the evidence?

I mean, I hope I conveyed it in a nuanced way. I'm not saying to you that I know for certain, that this is -- this is -- there's a scientific debate going on. But I think that there's enough evidence in the scientific literature to warrant telling people, when you take it, here's what you should know about this. Why should we hide that from people?

GLENN: Shouldn't.

STU: Seems to be a very balanced approach. Talking to Dr. Jay Bhattacharya.

Doctor, can you speak a little bit about the Swedish study that a lot of people have brought up. It's the 2.5 million kids.

It said, 1.33 percent chance of having autism without acetaminophen. 1.53 percent chance if you did have it during pregnancy.

They did say that the effect disappeared when controlling for siblings. Is this -- is this just part of the tapestry of all the research that you looked at? How do you view all this data?

MEGYN: Yeah, so we mentioned it. I wrote an op-ed, and we referenced this specific study.

This is part of the literature that is more skeptical about the link, right?

That's the big Swedish study. As you said, Glenn. If you just do a straightforward analysis, you find an increase in autism.

In -- in the -- the -- the moms that were exposed to Tylenol. Now, the study wasn't good at measuring Tylenol. I think only about 7 percent of the moms reported having using Tylenol, 7 percent of the moms support using Tylenol.

We know for a fact that's underestimated. We were looking at electronic health records and other things.

They didn't really get the over-the-counter use. So some of it is psychological issue. But the big thing with the siblings.

The sibling thing is really interesting. You think to yourself, if I compare.

You get them off during birth number one, she used Tylenol.

During birth number two, she didn't use Tylenol. And what if during birth number one, the baby turned out to have autism?

Birth number two, didn't use Tylenol, that seems like strong evidence. Because you have -- you have adjusted for the same common family environment.

The same -- similar genes. Because it's two siblings. Right?

It's a very attractive design. It has problems. Right?

First of all, you can't -- you don't have two and a half million moms that have siblings like this. What you have is a much smaller sample of what I would call discordant siblings. So you have siblings one -- who received Tylenol during the birth.

And one who didn't. Right? That's a much smaller sample.

You're not actually looking into -- and then if you have a smaller sample, it's harder to pick up any effects.

Right? You have to find a sufficient effect.

Just statistically. Second, the group of moms, who use it in one pregnancy, doesn't use it in another are very different from the moms used in both pregnancies. Or use it in -- and don't use it in either pregnancy.

Or use it. Only have one kid.

Very, very different from each other.

Now, I don't know that the results that you find among -- because discordant siblings translates over to the other groups.

Then third, probably the most important.

If you adjust away for the genetic differences, the family -- the family sort of sheer family differences.

You might be adjusting for the mechanism by which Tylenol actually causes autism.

Right?

It's -- what you're doing, you're saying, oh, I'm narrowing into only a narrow set of differences between the siblings. That obviously, there's a shared genetic environment.

And shared -- shared family environment.

But what if the mechanisms by which Tylenol is used -- late ant pregnancy causes autism. Leads through the thing that you controlled away.

It will mask the true effects.

GLENN: Right. Jay, I would love to continue to do this. I have got a network break I have to hit.

Thank you so much for everything you're doing. Thank you for being a part of the program. I appreciate it, and I hope we can talk again.

JAY: I would love that. Thanks for having me.

GLENN: You bet. Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, National Institute of Health. Fascinating.