“Ben & Jerry’s” co-founder Ben Cohen was recently arrested while protesting Health & Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. during a congressional hearing. Oh the irony that the ice cream man is heckling the guy who’s trying to make America healthy! But even more ironic is he’s heckling someone who probably AGREES with him on many things! Glenn and Stu discuss why leftists have turned on fellow liberals like RFJ Jr. who have joined the Trump administration and whether conservatives should also keep an eye out.
Transcript
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: So Ben Cohen. Do you know who Ben Cohen is from Ben & Jerry's?
STU: Oh, yeah.
GLENN: Okay. He was removed yesterday from the hearing with Robert F. Kennedy about 15 minutes into the hearing.
You have it? Go ahead. Go ahead. There's that. The -- love that he's the face of ice cream. There he is.
VOICE: Members of the audience.
GLENN: And he is eventually removed. There he is. He's saying, Congress! Congress pays for bombs! Congress pays for bombs! They kill people.
VOICE: Members of the audience! Reminded, disruptions will not be permitted while the committee conducts its business. County police are asked to remove the individuals from the hearing room.
GLENN: That's -- I mean, let me have some ice cream right now. Let me get some of that. You know --
STU: So bizarre.
GLENN: So bizarre.
STU: And he's protesting RFK Jr. Who would be completely aligned with him, I think on this issue.
GLENN: Yes. On that issue. On a lot of issues. You know what, they just took some things out, because RFK is forcing them to take it out of their ice cream.
Ben & Jerry's stuff in their ice cream, that's not healthy for you according to RFK. That's -- I mean, that's amazing.
STU: Ice cream, typically not seen as a healthy food.
GLENN: No. No. No.
STU: Generally speaking.
GLENN: But their rocky road Rockefeller. With just a little bit of petroleum in it. Might have been a little bit too much. Might have been too much.
STU: You know, then you can choose not to eat it.
That's a wonderful thing you can do.
It's just strange the alignments here.
GLENN: I know.
STU: Did I -- this may be a fever dream, honestly, at this point.
I'm out on a limb with this.
But did Ben and Jerry go on with Tucker recently?
Is this a thing that occurred? People are saying yes. It's amazing the conversations that are happening on there right now.
I mean, like, look, it's good that you should be able to talk to people.
I'm sure Tucker does not agree with most of what Ben believes of Ben & Jerry's.
GLENN: Was Ben and Jerry on?
STU: I think it was only Ben.
GLENN: That's like having the cat from Tom and Jerry.
I don't know which one was the cat. Which one was the mouse?
STU: I think Tom was the cat, and Jerry was the mouse. So you want to have both the cat and mouse at the same time?
GLENN: Yeah, they're a team really.
STU: We'll get with their movie department.
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(OUT AT 10:29 AM)
GLENN: Right now, SCOTUS is listening to arguments on birthright citizenship. The focus really is on the judge's power to block policies nationwide. That's got to stop. That just has to stop. But we'll see what the Supreme Court has to say.
STU: That's really the focus too. It's really not about birthright citizenship. From what I'm understanding. It's more about injunctions.
GLENN: Yeah. And it will be very narrow, on the injunctions, I think.
STU: Really?
GLENN: Yeah. So we'll see. We'll see.
So welcome to the program. We're glad you're here. You know who is not here? Is Ben and Jerry.
STU: He's here in my heart. By that way, I mean the calcium buildup from all the heart disease I've seen from the company, over the years. Yeah. He's not here.
He was at that big hearing.
It's difficult to understand where anyone is anymore.
I feel like, this was easier back in the day.
Like, you can kind of -- heard Ben and Jerry, you knew, left. It was easy, right?
GLENN: Right. Right.
STU: Now --
GLENN: I miss the days when we could just put labels on people. It was easy.
STU: It was easy. It made things a little easier to keep track of.
You know, like some people would label anti-Semite, for example, on Ben and Jerry.
Over the years. That was a label that I thought was interesting.
You know, but it's -- he's now opposing RFK who, I mean --
GLENN: I think it's probably on Ben & Jerry's side on many things.
STU: On almost everything.
Right? There is some things RFK has obviously changed now, when it comes to the woke stuff.
Some of the censorship stuff.
Although, I think -- it could be wrong on this.
Ben might be one of those old school socialist types. That might even agree with us on some of the censorship stuff.
Maybe. Because part of the socialist movement in the United States, was kind of built on --
GLENN: Was.
STU: Right. Was built on the operation to the McCarthyism.
And so there was -- there's some ideological.
GLENN: Right. They were for that, when they were the ones being shut up.
Now that they're not the ones being told to shut up.
They are like, we have every right to tell you to shut up. Okay.
STU: Yeah. Let me ask you this though. Because he's also been embraced by some parts of the right.
And -- and, you know, like Tucker did an interview with him. That's not an embrace. You can talk to whoever you want to talk to. Right? There's nothing wrong with that. We've talked to people on the far, far left. Even much farther left, crazier than even Ben or Jerry over the years. I -- no problem with that.
As a journalist, you should do that. You know, Tucker talked to Vladimir Putin, right? So did Megan Kelly.
GLENN: Yeah, I would talk to America's biggest enemies.
STU: Yeah. How else do you know what held them up? You would ask tough questions. I'm sure Tucker did in the interview. But we are -- I've noticed this thing that we're doing.
And I'm a little concerned. Let me see if I can articulate this.
GLENN: Are you?
STU: Us on the right, the conservative side of the spectrum, find someone who has some crossover with us.
In some way. But is really a figure of the left. Okay?
And we kind of give -- saying, hey, come on over. We have got this thing. It's wonderful!
And then they sort of become part of the movement, and that's totally fine. Like, let me give you an example. Tulsi Gabbard.
I really like Tulsi Gabbard.
She's been on the show a bunch of times. She's in the administration right now. She's great. so this is not a criticism.
I'm glad Tulsi Gabbard has had this awakening over the years. I'm excited about that. But so she comes over. She's -- you know, she supported Bernie Sanders. Ran the Sander's campaign in Hawaii back in the day. Not that long ago.
But she's had a transition. She's come over, and obviously, in the Trump administration right now.
And so we look at that. And we say, hey. That's great. We brought someone from the left, over to our side.
And that's great, if that's what you're doing. If you're convincing someone on the left, to convert their ideas into something closer to your ideas.
That's a positive change. You're widening the tent in a way that we can all support.
But really, what Tulsi is doing, in the government right now, is she's being consistent with her old left-wing views on things like, you know, stopping wars and not -- you know, and being tough on intelligence issues in the government.
GLENN: Yeah. Because we woke up on that.
STU: Well, because we've changed.
GLENN: Right.
STU: And that's what I'm getting to here. What seems to be happening, is we're embracing things on the left. And it's not us changing their views into ours. It's us changing our views into theirs. And then embracing some of those people.
That's not necessarily bad if we were wrong the whole time. Right?
GLENN: Yeah, I don't think we were on the endless wars.
STU: Yeah. I mean, some of that I agree with. Right?
The phrasing of it, and maybe the -- the scope of it, maybe I'm not fully there. But generally speaking, I think, you know, we've definitely overstepped our bounds at times.
GLENN: A lot of times.
STU: Yeah.
GLENN: Yeah.
STU: I don't think that's improper to say.
GLENN: Yeah.
STU: But, again, I look at the way that Trump handles it. And it's different than what Tulsi's vision of this is.
GLENN: Oh, no.
STU: Trump is tough on Iran.
GLENN: I think Trump is Ronald Reagan. I'll pound you into the sand. I will turn your sand into glass. Don't screw with us. But then he's like, we're buddies right now. So you don't want to be buddies? We'll be buddies.
STU: For example, this: His Syria move, I think, is fascinating. And I think -- I think the right move. I'm not 100 percent sure.
GLENN: Me too. I'm not 100 percent on anything.
STU: But like, I think it's worth taking a stab on this.
It's a new regime. The guy used to be literally in al-Qaeda. Okay?
GLENN: I know.
STU: However, maybe he's changed.
I think the chances of it are low. But why not pull that lottery ticket?
Because the downside is what we already had.
So give a shot. Give the guy a handshake. Say, hey, we will drop these sanctions. We're going to give you a chance to not turn yourself into the old regime.
GLENN: I think that's --
STU: I think that's the right approach.
GLENN: Nobody is ever turned by lectures.
STU: Yeah. Or like opponent's lectures in particular.
GLENN: Right. You turn people through love and understanding. And giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Until they prove you wrong.
STU: It's a great point.
And I think it ties back to my previous. The way we started this conversation.
Which is, a lot of people in our movement, are being won over to previous left-wing positions by new friends. And that is not bad, in and of itself.
But we've done it a lot lately.
And I'm concerned.
GLENN: So because I changed. Not because of Tulsi.
STU: No. But the movement has changed.
GLENN: The reason I liked Tulsi at first. Was I like the fact, that she was willing to stand up to her own machine. And say, no. You guys are wrong.
You guys are going down this fascistic route.
And I won't go there with you. You are changing all the rules.
You are not who you said you were.
That's why I originally liked her. Because she would take on her own people.
And that takes courage. So it shows you something about her character. Then when you get to know her, you realize, oh, we might disagree on taxes and everything else. But she loves the country. She loves and reveres the Constitution of the United States.
STU: Yep.
GLENN: If I could get you on the Bill of Rights, we don't have any differences too big to not be able to bridge.
STU: And, again, I don't think Tulsi is a problem.
GLENN: No. I don't.
STU: That's not what I'm saying.
But, you know, you have -- let's -- Tulsi is in DNI. You have RFK Jr. HHS. It's a big one. You know, you look at the way RFK approaches -- I mean, he -- I mean, he is awfully close to someone who -- like a Michael Bloomberg on public health issues.
This is something we -- now, he was kind of a Republican in New York at one point.
Obviously, it was something that I know we oppose. The audience loudly opposes, when he was trying to control what you eat. I think there's some differences.
I'm not saying there aren't any.
But, you know, going after food companies. And changing the way -- that's a change for -- if that's what the right is. That is a change for the right.
We were always in favor of people making their own choices. And having companies being able to produce the products within some guidelines.
GLENN: Yeah. As long as they're not killing people.
STU: Right. There are guidelines. There are guardrails, of course, to all of this.
But generally speaking, ours were wide. The left's were small. And now we've taken, the guy who was the voice of the left's view on those. RFK Jr. and put him in charge of the right's view of it.
Is that a good thing?
Maybe it's great. Maybe he's been completely right this whole time, and we should have been approaching things that way.
GLENN: I think if our society was not getting sicker and sicker and sicker. Then --
STU: There's reasons for all of this stuff.
GLENN: Right.
STU: But we should notice those things.
You know, he's a really -- I think big example of that. Because that is -- it's a massive change to the way that we've -- we've done these things.
Another one is trade. Peter Navarro ran as a Democrat over and over and over and over again.
On these trade whys.
Now, Donald Trump has been consists with these ideas since the day he was in the public eye.
GLENN: There's nobody who has been more outspoken on antitrade, up until recently, than me. And you.
You're still outspoken on it.
I think -- I think we have to give it a shot.
Because we're behind the eight ball here.
GLENN: Yeah. I don't like the policy.
I don't agree.
But again. It's separate from whether each individual one of these is right.
There's a lot of these.
And over time, I think, you can knowledge.
It will add up to a completely different formula.
It might be the right thing for us to do.
But we should notice each one of these changes, I think.
GLENN: And I think you're right on that.
But isn't this the same as -- I mean, you're not the same guy I met 30 years ago.
STU: Totally, we all change.
GLENN: We all change. And that's good. And we should notice when we change. Because we learn from. Wait. Why did I just change?
Did I change for the right reasons? Did something happen to me?
Is somebody around me, changing this? You do -- we do have to pay attention to the change.
But I think change is good.
STU: It can be.
You know --
GLENN: If it's -- if it's well thought out.
If it is still built on principles.
And evolving understanding. Not of truth.
But how to get to the truth. Like, I -- for instance, the foreign war thing.
I just know, right now. What we've been doing is not working. It's not going to make the world safer. Ever. Ever. Ever.
It's not.
STU: Sometimes, it has. Obviously, in previous wars. But, yes. I --
GLENN: The meddling of everybody.
STU: You can't control everybody.
GLENN: It just won't work.
And it's making things worse.
Now, pulling all the way back, and saying, you know what, we don't -- you know, we don't want to be involved in the rest of the world.
That doesn't sound good to me.
STU: Yeah. That's what Trump is doing.
GLENN: Right. But it might be the right thing.
I just know -- I know for sure, what we had been doing, doesn't work.
And I really believed in what we were doing.
Well, I believed in what I thought we were doing.
You know what I mean?
STU: For sure.
GLENN: And so we have to make changes. And changes in almost everything.
And as long as it's logical.
As long as you have really thought things out. As long as you're not just conforming.
You know, the really scary thing is when people begin to conform, for any other reason, other than logic.
I've reasoned this out. I've asked critical questions.
And I am sorry, I would love more information that might change me out of this position.
But this is where I find myself at.
And even if I'm uncomfortable, I have to stand here. Because this is my current understanding of what's best.
You know, and as long as you keep an open mind. And you're constantly seeking to have a better understanding, of deeper truths.
Then I think -- I think you're fine.
But, you know, one of the things we're going to face, especially with AI.
All of a sudden, we're going to conform.
Because Google would give you page after page after page after page of different information.
ChatGPT gives you one answer. And you just assume it's right.
They don't give you anything --
STU: That's got to be a fascinating development in our society.
GLENN: And it's already there.
STU: Oh, it totally is.
GLENN: You Googled, and you had to look at different things and everything else.
This is one answer. And I know it's right, because it came from AI. Very dangerous.