RADIOJune 06, 2025

What everyone is MISSING about the “Big, Beautiful Bill” fight

President Trump and Elon Musk are battling over the “Big, Beautiful Bill.” But Glenn Beck explains the one thing many on the Right seem to be missing about the bill: raising the debt ceiling again is terrible, but Trump’s economic plan will fall apart if the good parts of this bill aren’t passed.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Stu, the latest on the battle of the big, beautiful bill.

What the hell is happening now?

STU: Well, I mean, most of the coverage, the last 24 hours, has been that Elon Musk is tweeting about it, an awful lot.

That seems to be the focus of the media at the moment.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: And, you know, various lawmakers trying to wrangle Elon Musk and trying to get him to stop doing this.

They don't want him to message this, as this terrible bill. Because they -- they want to keep him within the walls. They want him to be involved, in the Republican movement and party going forward. They also feel like, this is the best they can do I suppose.

You know, it's -- the bill itself. It will be very hard to get this through. You have only 53 senators, on the Republican side.

We know basically for a fact, that Rand Paul is a no, almost any other circumstance. Right? So you're at 52. You can lose two more.

We know Mike Lee has already kind of indicated he's not particularly in love with this bill. Several others have as well.

So they're going to have to make changes to probably get those people on board. When they do that. You're going to have the House, which only passed the bill by one vote.

And already has two members, who did vote for it.

Who have said, they now would vote against it. Now that they know what's in it.

Which is another significant problem, that maybe we should try to avoid in the future. You should probably read the bill before you actually vote for it.

Especially, you don't have to read the bill on this stuff. Because people are talking about it, outwardly in the debate, about the bill. The particular problems that these two representatives cited. So you're already under the amount of votes you need in the House.

Before the changes. Several factions in the House are saying, they will not vote for the bill, if certain parts of it change. Like the SALT deduction we've talked about before. Where you get to deduct your local taxes in blue states basically for a very short subscription of it.

So, I mean, look, Donald Trump does have a way of coming in and saying, do it!

And Republicans have a way of stepping up and saying, yes, sir.

That's kind of the way the Republican Party works at this point.

GLENN: So I think there's a good chance it still gets through eventually.

But when you look at what the bill has. It has a lot of good.

It has an awful lot of bad in it, as well.

So can I just, let me pick it up from there, Stu.

That it has a lot of bad in it. A lot of good in it.

Here's the thing that I don't think you're getting from anybody, really.

You're not getting a balanced look.

I understand both sides. I really do. I understand the urgency from the White House. And I think Russ Voit is going to be on with us, in about an hour, or next -- or tomorrow. Depends on what his schedule is like, trying to squeeze him in today.

But I trust him. He knows what's going on.

And I understand the White House's point of view. I really do.

I understand that if this doesn't pass, that means the tax cuts will probably not be permanent.

They won't get them through.

Without the tax cuts, the entire thing falls apart.

Without regulation reform, the entire plan for the economy falls apart.

Okay? And Trump knows that. The White House knows that. The Democrats know this.

They have to have this pass. Because of the good stuff in it.

Now, the bad stuff that's in it. The biggest probably bad stuff, the debt ceiling being raised by another $4 trillion.

That's really bad!

That's really, really bad.

Because we're not going to be able to continue to fund our -- our country, if we can't -- if we keep raising the debt, and we can't sell our Treasury bonds. We can't sell our debt to anybody, because nobody believes us anymore. That we're serious about cutting spending.

Then the entire thing falls apart.

So damned if you do, damned if you don't. That's where we're at. Okay?

If we don't pass it, then the president's economic plans fall apart. If we do pass it, we run a very high risk of the rest of the world saying, you guys aren't serious! About your debt. And we can't buy your Treasuries anymore.

And that changes -- that changes everything.

That one is not the fault of this administration.

That one is the fault of every single democratic Republican, since -- since when I was first born, they have been talking about this!

They have been talking about the debt and deficit and everything else. We've been talking about our spending problem forever. And at some point, I mean, even FDR said this, at some point, this won't work. You'll have to stop it!

I remember Ronald Reagan saying, at some point, we're not going to have any good options!

Well, we're there. There are no good options. Damned if you do, damned if you don't!

Okay?

This is what Ronald Reagan said was coming. We've known this forever, as a nation. So I look at this, and say, who do I bet on?

Gosh. I mean, we're betting the future of our nation. We're betting the future of our children.

We're betting the -- you know, whether we're all slaves to debt or not.

I don't hear a good solution on either side. I don't trust that the Republicans -- I don't think they're serious about anything. At all.

There's a few people that are serious about the debt. And really, I think understand it. Rand Paul is another one.

Mike Lee is another one.

Chip Roy is one, but Chip is one who I think also really understands not just the dangers of debt, but also the dangers to the economy, if we don't pass this bill.

We've got to the tax cuts. Have to!

Or everything falls apart.

So what do you do?

Well, there is one thing here, that really bothers me. This is -- this is -- I give the benefit of the doubt, to Trump and the White House.

And that scares me! It does. Not because I don't trust Donald Trump. I do trust Donald Trump.

But the debt scares the hell out of me! Because it's real. And at some point, and I don't know if it's this 4 trillion-dollar debt ceiling raised, or the next one, but at some point the rest of the world is going to walk away and go, uh-uh. So I give the benefit of the doubt, pass the bill. Just pass the bill. Okay?

That could end up being wrong. I'm not going to tell you I'm write by any stretch of the imagination. I think this is something we all have to do our own homework. And then pray on.

I can't tell you what's right or wrong.

You want someone to do that. Listen to Sean Hannity or somebody else. Because I don't know. I don't know.

Here's what I do know.

Yesterday, Trump said, the debt limit should be entirely scrapped. That is colossally a bad idea! A bad idea.

And I can't give the benefit of the doubt on that one. No. If we scrap the debt ceiling and the debt limit, that means nobody ever has to pause. Now, he's right in this sense: That everybody is using that debt ceiling as a weapon.

So if you don't have to have the debt ceiling, then they can't say, you know what, we're going to default on our loans, if we don't spend all this money!

We're never going to default. Okay?

We're not going to default. We just will have to live through austerity.

We will just to have cut all the programs.

And just pay the interest on our bills.

So we won't default.

And if we do, we're even in more trouble than I thought. But if you take away the debt ceiling vote, then there's no restraint. And here's how the world will interpret this.

There is one thing to say, I'm getting into a car. And we're going to go down this canyon. And it's very, very curvy.

You know, it's in one of those really dangerous canyons. That just make my butt clench every time you drive down these steep hills and canyons. And in the West. Where you're like, we can drive over the edge, and then we're dead.

It's one thing to get into a car, where the brakes are fine. It might be leaking a little bit.

But the brakes are fine. And you get into the car, and you're like, okay.

I think we're okay. I think we're okay. And we have a chance of survival.

And then another one, inviting people into the car and saying, no.

Oh, the brakes are fine. I mean, they're leaking a little bit. But the brakes are fine. Some people get in. Some people don't.

But if I got you on the top of that canyon and I pull up in my car, and I'm like, hey, hop in. We're going to go down the canyon. By the way, I cut the brake lines. So there's really no chance of us stopping or tapping on to the brakes. Would you get into the car?

That's what other countries and other -- other sovereign funds and all of the big wealth management. That's the way they will look at us, if we have no debt ceiling! If we just like, yeah. We can spend whatever we want.

We don't even have to talk about it anymore.

You know, we just know that the debt is going to be okay.

I'm not getting into that car.

I'm not buying a single bond from you.

You're completely irresponsible.

And there's no tapping of the brake. There's no slowing the car down. It starts going down the hill. There's no slowing it down. It just crashes, period.

That's what happens. Okay?

We cannot scrap the debt limit. That will be the -- that will be the death knell of America!

It will be over.

You will see the interest rates go through the roof.

Because nobody is going to -- nobody will want to buy our tea bill.

So we will have to be able to offer them more money. Okay. We'll pay you 9 percent.

Well, what is paying 9 percent interest? Just say 6 percent.

Five percent!

What does it mean, if we have to pay 5 percent interest, on $40 trillion?

Nothing good!

We won't be able to afford it. We will all be paying our taxes, just to pay that debt.

That's the bomb that's about to go off.

Okay?

And that's why people who are, quote, fiscal hawks, that I happen to agree with are saying, we have to cut more out of the budget.

We have to! Because it might be this 4 trillion-dollar debt ceiling raised, that kills us.

The world is so close to just saying, screw, America.

And they want to say screw America. As soon as they're ready with their alternate version of whatever it is, Bitcoin, a CBDC, or central banks, you know, BRICS.

Whatever it is. As soon as they're ready. They are going to cut us loose.

So we're facing that, let's just not hasten that!

And here's why the president -- the president has never, in his whole life, had a problem with debt.

And in some ways, he's right!

If you have at the time, and you're not really working hard, you're not doing the smart things.

But you have all this potential. And all this talent.

But you're not doing anything. Debt is a problem. Because how are you going to pay for it?

You know, when you're -- when you're not making the -- even the minimum debt payment, you're just adding more debt, you're in real trouble.

However, you know, you're a deadbeat. And you're like, you know what, I'm going to go to school. I'm going to become a doctor. I'm going to become a brain surgeon. And you have the ability to do that. You know what, I will be a brain surgeon, and some Nobel Prize winning scientist on energy. Because I'm going to invent a new kind of energy. You have no problem with the debt you have. You can keep piling on debt.

Go ahead. You want to go to Harvard. Good luck with that. But go to Harvard, and pile that debt on.

Because you will be able to pay that off, with what you're going to make in the future.

But right now, where the deadbeats.

We're not doing anything to make more money. And you know this in your own life. You have to be able to make more money. You have debt.

You either have to refinance, and if it's at a higher interest rate, that could be a problem. You have to pay it off. Or you just have to default, and say, you know what.

Chapter 11. I'm out. Well, we can't file chapter 11.

We can't do that. But we can't default. The world won't allow us to. So what do we do?

We either cut our debt, and our deficit. And we get our spending way under control.

Or we get another job! And we reinvent.

That's why Donald Trump is letting these -- these AI companies build their own nuclear power plants.

We don't have the money to -- to build them!

They will to have build them. You want to build them?

You build them. I will clear the red tape. But I'm not paying for them. You build them. Because you will be using the energy for AI. So go ahead.

You build the power plants.

That's the way for us to not dig ourselves into a hole. And allow us to be in a position to where we can reinvent the world, and reinvent the way the world works. And be first on the scene, so we can pay this debt off! Because we now have another job.

Does this make sense?

But there's one problem with all of this.

And that is, we're spending so much money now, and what are we spending it on?

I'll finish that here in just a second. First, let me tell you about our sponsor.

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GLENN: So the other problem that we have, and why we can't cut, and this kills me to say this!

One of the reasons why we can't cut so dramatically is because, between federal, state, and local, our GDP is 45 percent based on taxes!

On government. State, local, and federal spending. That's half of our GDP.

That's a crazy amount!

That's a dangerous amount.

So you start cutting all of these programs, you start cutting all of the -- you know, super fast bullet train that we needed in California.

It will take us another 20 years.

So give us some more money.

You stop spending this money. That money dries up in our communities.

And people lose their jobs. So we have to be very careful on how we cut. How rapidly we cut.

We don't want to cut too quickly, until we replace it with growth. But how do you grow without cutting the budgets?

I mean, we are in this really tough situation.

It's why I say to you, I'm not going to tell you, which way to go on this.

Because I don't know.

I don't know.

Who do you trust?

I don't know.

Who has the right idea?

I don't know.

I think it's a combination of everybody.

But I also know, that there's nobody on the Democrat side.

There's nobody on the Democrat side, that's ready to go.

You know what, I will do the responsible thing.

And I will cut. I will cut.

They're not.

So we're just negotiating with ourselves, as usual.

And will the Republicans screw it up?

Well, don't they always?

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

How to Find God in a Divided World | Max Lucado & Glenn Beck

Glenn Beck sits down with beloved pastor and author Max Lucado for a deep conversation about faith, humility, and finding unity in a divided world. Together, they reflect on the importance of principles over politics, why humility opens the door to true dialogue, and how centering life on God brings clarity and peace. Lucado shares stories of faith, the dangers of a “prosperity gospel,” and the powerful reminder that life is not about making a big deal of ourselves, but about making a big deal of God. This uplifting conversation will inspire you to re-center your life, strengthen your faith, and see how humility and love can transform even the most divided times.

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with Max Lucado HERE

Bill O'Reilly predicts THIS will be Charlie Kirk's legacy

Bill O’Reilly joins Glenn Beck with a powerful prediction about Charlie Kirk’s legacy. Evil tried to destroy his movement, Bill says, but – as his new book, “Confronting Evil,” lays out – evil will just end up destroying itself once more…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Mr. Bill O'Reilly, welcome to the program, how are you, sir?

BILL: Good, Beck, thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. How have you been?

GLENN: Last week was really tough. I know it was tough for you and everybody else.

But, you know -- I haven't -- I haven't seen anything.

BILL: Family okay? All of that?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Family is okay. Family is okay.

BILL: Good question good. That's the most important thing.

GLENN: It is.

So, Bill, what do you make of this whole Charlie Kirk thing. What happened, and where are we headed?

BILL: So my analysis is different for everybody else, and those that know me for so long. About a year ago, I was looking for a topic -- it was a contract to do another book. And I said, you know what's happening in America, and around the world. Was a rise in evil. It takes a year to research and write these books.

And not since the 1930s, had I seen that happen, to this extent. And in the 1930s, of course, you would have Tojo and Hitler and Mussolini and Franco and all these guys. And it led to 100 million dead in World War II. The same thing, not to the extent.

But the same thing was --
GLENN: Yet.
BILL: -- bubbling in the world, and in the United States.

I decided to write a book. The book comes out last Tuesday. And on Wednesday, Putin lobs missiles into Poland.

Ultra dangerous.

And a few hours later, Charlie Kirk is assassinated.

And one of the interviewers said to me last week, your -- your book is haunting. Is haunting.

And I think that's extremely accurate. Because that's what evil does.

And in the United States, we have so many distractions. The social media.

People create around their own lives.

Sports. Whatever it may be. That we look away.

Now, Charlie Kirk was an interesting fellow. Because at a very young age, he was mature enough to understand that he wanted to take a stand in favor of traditional America and Judeo Christian philosophy.

He decided that he wanted to do that.

You know, and when I was 31 or whatever, I was lucky I wasn't in the penitentiary. And I believe you were in the penitentiary.
(laughter)
So he was light years ahead of us.

GLENN: Yes, he was.

BILL: And he put it into motion. All right? Now, most good people, even if you disagree with what Mr. Kirk says on occasion, you admire that. That's the spirit of America. That you have a belief system, that you go out and try to promote that belief system, for the greater good of the country. That's what it is.

That's what Charlie Kirk did.

And he lost his life.

By doing it!

So when you essentially break all of this down. You take the emotion away, all right?

Which I have to do, in my job. You see it as another victory for evil.

But it really isn't.

And this is the ongoing story.

This is the most important story. So when you read my book, Confronting Evil, you'll see that all of these heinous individuals, Putin's on the cover. Mao. Hitler.

Ayatollah Khomeini. And then there are 14 others inside the book. They all destroy themselves.

Evil always destroys itself. But it takes so many people with it. So this shooter destroyed his own family.

And -- and Donald Trump, I talked to him about it last week in Yankee stadium. And Trump is a much different guy than most people think.

GLENN: He is.

JASON: He destroyed his own mother and father and his two brothers.

That's what he did. In addition to the Kirk family!

So evil spreads. Now, if Americans pay attention and come to the conclusion that I just stated, it will be much more difficult for evil to operate openly.

And that's what I think is going to happen.

There's going to be a ferocious backlash against the progressive left in particular.

To stop it, and I believe that is what Mr. Kirk's legacy is going to be.

GLENN: I -- I agree with you on all of these fronts.

I wonder though, you know, it took three, or if you count JFK, four assassinations in the '60s, to confront the evil if you will.

Before people really woke up and said, enough is enough!

And then you have the big Jesus revolution after that.

Is -- I hate to say this. But is -- as far gone as we are, is one assassination enough to wake people up?

JOHN: Some people. Some people will never wake up.

They just don't want to live in the real world, Beck. And it's never been easier to do that with the social media and the phones and the computers.

And you're never going to get them back.

But you don't need them. So let's just be very realistic here on the Glenn Beck show.

Let's run it down.

The corporate media is finished.

In America. It's over.

And you will see that play out the next five years.

Because the corporate media invested so much of its credibility into hating Donald Trump.

And the hate is the key word.

You will find this interesting, Beck. For the first time in ten years, I've been invited to do a major thing on CBS, today.

I will do it GE today. With major Garrett.

GLENN: Wow.

BILL: Now, that only happened because Skydance bought CBS. And Skydance understands the brand CBS is over, and they will have to rehabilitate the whole thing. NBC has not come to that conclusion yet, but it will have to.

And ABC just does the weather. I mean, that's all they care about. Is it snowing in Montana? Okay? The cables are all finished. Even Fox.

Once Trump leaves the stage, there's nowhere for FNC to go. Because they've invested so much in Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

So the fact of the matter is, the corporate media is over in America. That takes a huge cudgel out of the hands of the progressive movement.

Because the progressive movement was dependent on the corporate media to advance its cause. That's going to end, Beck.

GLENN: Well, I would hope that you're right.

Let me ask you about --

BILL: When am I wrong?

When am I wrong?

You've known me for 55 years. When have I been wrong?

GLENN: Okay. All right. All right. We're not here to argue things like that.

So tell me about Skydance. Because isn't Skydance Chinese?

BILL: No! It's Ellison. Larry Ellison, the second richest guy in the world. He owns Lanai and Hawaii, the big tech guy and his son is running it.

GLENN: Yeah, okay.

I though Skydance. I thought that was -- you know them.

BILL: Yeah.

And they -- they're not ideological, but they were as appalled as most of us who pay attention at the deterioration of the network presentations.

So --

GLENN: You think that they could.

BILL: 60 Minutes used to be the gold standard.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

BILL: And it just -- it -- you know, you know, I don't know if you watch it anymore.

GLENN: I don't either.

So do you think they can actually turn CBS around, or is it just over?

BILL: I don't know. It's very hard to predict, because so many people now bail. I've got a daughter 26, and a son, 22.

They never, ever watched network television.

And you've got -- it's true. Right?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

They don't watch --

BILL: They're not going to watch The Voice. The dancing with this. The juggling with that. You know, I think they could do a much better job in their news presentations.

GLENN: Yeah. Right.

BILL: Because what they did, is banish people like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

Same voices, with huge followings.

Huge!

All right?

We couldn't get on there.

That's why Colbert got fired. Because Colbert wouldn't -- refused to put on any non-progressive voice, when they were talking about the country.

GLENN: I know.

BILL: Well, it's not -- I'm censoring it.

GLENN: Yeah, but it's not that he was fired because he wouldn't do that. He was fired because that led to horrible ratings. Horrible ratings.

BILL: Yes, it was his defiance.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: Fallon has terrible ratings and so does Kimmel. But Colbert was in your face, F you, to the people who were signing his paycheck.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: Look, evil can only exist if the mechanisms of power are behind it.

And that's when you read the front -- I take them one by one. And Putin is the most important chapter by far.

GLENN: Why?

BILL: Because Putin would use nuclear weapon.

He wouldn't. He's a psychopath.

And I'm -- on Thursday night, I got a call from the president's people saying, would I meet the president at Yankee stadium for the 9/11 game?

And I said, when a president calls and asks you to meet them, sure.

GLENN: I'll be there. What time?

BILL: It will take me three days to get into Yankee stadium, on Long Island. But I'll start now.

GLENN: Especially because the president is coming. But go ahead.

BILL: Anyway, that was a very, I think that Mr. Trump values my opinion. And it was -- we did talk about Putin.

And the change in Putin. And I had warned him, that Putin had changed from the first administration, where Trump controlled Putin to some extent.

Now he's out of control. Because that's what always happens.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: It happened with Hitler. It happened with Mao. It happened with the ayatollah. It happened with Stalin. Right now. They get worse and worse and worse and worse. And then they blow up.

And that's where Putin is! But he couldn't do any of that, without the assent of the Russian people. They are allowing him to do this, to kill women and children. A million Russian casualties for what! For what! Okay?

So that's why this book is just in the stratosphere. And I was thinking object, oh. Because people want to understand evil, finally. Finally.

They're taking a hard look at it, and the Charlie Kirk assassination was an impetus to do that.

GLENN: Yeah. And I think it's also an impetus to look at the good side.

I mean, I think Charlie was just not a neutral -- a neutral character. He was a force for good. And for God.

And I think that -- that combination is almost the Martin Luther King combination. Where you have a guy who is speaking up for civil rights.

But then also, speaking up for God. And speaking truth, Scripturally.

And I think that combination still, strangely, I wouldn't have predicted it. But strangely still works here in America, and I think it's changed everything.

Bill, it's always food to talk to you. Thank you so much for being on. I appreciate it.

It's Bill O'Reilly. The name of the book, you don't want to miss. Is confronting evil. And he takes all of these really, really bad guys on. One by one. And shows you, what happens if you don't do something about it. Confronting evil. Bill O'Reilly.

And you can find it at BillO'Reilly.com.

The difference between debate and celebrating death

There’s a big difference between firing someone, like a teacher, for believing children shouldn’t undergo trans surgery and firing a teacher who celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. Glenn Beck explains why the latter is NOT “cancel culture.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I got an email from somebody that says, Glenn, in the wake of Charlie's assassination, dozens of teachers, professors and professionals are being suspended or fired for mocking, or even celebrating Charlie Kirk's death.

Critics say conservatives are now being hypocritical because you oppose cancel culture. But is this the same as rose an losing her job over a crude joke. Or is it celebrating murder, and that's something more serious?

For many, this isn't about cancellation it's about trust. If a teacher is entrusted with children or a doctor entrusted with patients, publicly celebrates political violence, have they not yet disqualified themselves from those roles? Words matter. But cheering a death is an action. Is there any consequence for this? Yes. There is.

So let's have that conversation here for a second.

Is every -- is every speech controversy the same?

The answer to that is clearly no.

I mean, we've seen teachers and pastors and doctors and ordinary citizens lose their job now, just for saying they don't believe children under 18 should undergo transgender surgeries. Okay? Lost their job. Chased out.

That opinion, whether you agree or disagree is a moral and medical judgment.

And it is a matter of policy debate. It is speech in the public square.

I have a right to say, you're mutilating children. Okay. You have a right to say, no. We're not. This is the best practices. And then we can get into the silences of it. And we don't shout down the other side.

Okay? Now, on the other hand, you have Charlie Kirk's assassination. And we've seen teachers and professors go online and be celebrate.

Not criticize. Not argue policy. But celebrate that someone was murdered.

Some have gone so far and said, it's not a tragedy. It's a victory. Somebody else, another professor said, you reap what you sow.

Well, let me ask you: Are these two categories of free speech the same?

No! They're not.

Here's the difference. To say, I believe children should not be allowed to have gender surgeries, before 18. That is an attempt, right or wrong. It doesn't matter which side you are.

That is an attempt to protect life. Protect children. And guide society.

It's entering the debate about the role of medicine. The right of parents. And the boundaries of childhood. That's what that is about. To say Charlie Kirk's assassination is a good thing, that's not a debate. That's not even an idea. That's rejoicing in violence. It's glorifying death.

There's no place in a civil society for that kind of stuff. There's not. And it's a difference that actually matters.

You know, our Founders fought for free speech because they believed as Jefferson said, that air can be tolerated where truth is left free to combat it.

So I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, at all. I don't think you do either. I hope you don't. Otherwise, you should go back to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Error can be tolerated where truth is left to be free to combat it.

But when speech shifts from debating ideas to celebrating death, doesn't that cease to be the pursuit of truth and instead, just become a glorification of evil?

I know where I stand on that one. Where do you stand?

I mean, if you go back and you look at history, in colonial matter -- in colonial America, if you were to go against the parliament and against the king, those words were dangerous. They were called treason. But they were whys. They were arguments about liberty and taxation and the rights of man.

And the Founders risked their lives against the dictator to say those things.

Now, compare that to France in 1793.

You Thomas Paine, one of or -- one of our founder kind of. On the edges of our founders.

He thought that what was happening in France is exactly like the American Revolution.

Washington -- no. It wasn't.

There the crowds. They didn't gather to argue. Okay? They argued to cheer the guillotine they didn't want the battle of ideas.

They wanted blood. They wanted heads to roll.

And roll they did. You know, until the people who were screaming for the heads to roll, shouted for blood, found that their own heads were rolling.

Then they turned around on that one pretty quickly.

Think of Rome.

Cicero begged his countrymen to preserve the republic through reason, law, and debate. Then what happened?

The mob started cheering assassinations.

They rejoiced that enemies were slaughtered.

They were being fed to the lions.

And the republic fell into empire.

And liberty was lost!

Okay. So now let me bring this back to Charlie Kirk here for a second.

If there's a professor that says, I don't believe children should have surgeries before adulthood, is that cancel culture, when they're fired?

Yes! Yes, it is.

Because that is speech this pursuit of truth.

However imperfect, it is speech meant to protect children, not to harm them. You also cannot be fired for saying, I disagree with that.

If you are telling, I disagree with that. And I will do anything to shut you down including assassination! Well, then, that's a different story.

What I teacher says, I'm glad Charlie Kirk is dead, is that cancel culture, if they're fired?

Or is that just society saying, you know, I don't think I can trust my kid to -- to that guy.

Or that woman.

I know, that's not an enlightening mind.

Somebody who delights in political murder.

I don't want them around my children! Scripture weighs in here too.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. Matthew.

What does it reveal about the heart of a teacher who celebrates assassination?

To me, you go back to Scripture. Whoa unto them that call good evil -- evil good and good evil.

A society that will shrug on speech like this, say society that has lost its moral compass.

And I believe we still have a moral compass.

Now, our free speech law doesn't protect both. Absolutely. Under law. Absolutely.

Neither one of them should go to jail.

Neither should be silenced by the state.

But does trust survive both?

Can a parent trust their child to a teacher who is celebrating death?

I think no. I don't think a teacher can be trusted if they think that the children that it's right for children to see strippers in first grade!

I'm sorry. It's beyond reason. You should not be around my children!

But you shouldn't go to jail for that. Don't we, as a society have a right to demand virtue, in positions of authority?

Yes.

But the political class and honestly, the educational class, does everything they can to say, that doesn't matter.

But it does. And we're seeing it now. The line between cancel and culture, the -- the cancellation of people, and the accountability of people in our culture, it's not easy.

Except here. I think it is easy.

Cancel culture is about challenging the orthodoxy. Opinions about faith, morality, biology.
Accountability comes when speech reveals somebody's heart.

Accountability comes when you're like, you are a monster! You are celebrating violence. You're mocking life itself. One is an argument. The other is an abandonment of humanity. The Constitution, so you understand, protects both.

But we as a culture can decide, what kind of voices would shape our children? Heal our sick. Lead our communities?

I'm sorry, if you're in a position of trust, I think it's absolutely right for the culture to say, no!

No. You should not -- because this is not policy debate. This is celebrating death.

You know, our Founders gave us liberty.

And, you know, the big thing was, can you keep it?

Well, how do you keep it? Virtue. Virtue.

Liberty without virtue is suicide!

So if anybody is making this case to you, that this is cancel culture. I just want you to ask them this question.

Which do you want to defend?

Cancel culture that silences debate. Or a culture that still knows the difference between debating ideas and celebrating death.

Which one?

Shocking train video: Passengers wait while woman bleeds out

Surveillance footage of the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska in Charlotte, NC, reveals that the other passengers on the train took a long time to help her. Glenn, Stu, and Jason debate whether they were right or wrong to do so.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: You know, I'm -- I'm torn on how I feel about the people on the train.

Because my first instinct is, they did nothing! They did nothing! Then my -- well, sit down and, you know -- you know, you're going to be judged. So be careful on judging others.

What would I have done? What would I want my wife to do in that situation?

STU: Yeah. Are those two different questions, by the way.

GLENN: Yeah, they are.

STU: I think they go far apart from each other. What would I want myself to do. I mean, it's tough to put yourself in a situation. It's very easy to watch a video on the internet and talk about your heroism. Everybody can do that very easily on Twitter. And everybody is.

You know, when you're in a vehicle that doesn't have an exit with a guy who just murdered somebody in front of you, and has a dripping blood off of a knife that's standing 10 feet away from you, 15 feet away from you.

There's probably a different standard there, that we should all kind of consider. And maybe give a little grace to what I saw at least was a woman, sitting across the -- the -- the aisle.

I think there is a difference there. But when you talk about that question. Those two questions are definitive.

You know, I know what I would want myself to do. I would hope I would act in a way that didn't completely embarrass myself afterward.

But I also think, when I'm thinking of my wife. My advice to my wife would not be to jump into the middle of that situation at all costs. She might do that anyway. She actually is a heck of a lot stronger than I am.

But she might do it anyway.

GLENN: How pathetic, but how true.

STU: Yes. But that would not be my advice to her.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: Now, maybe once the guy has certainly -- is out of the area. And you don't think the moment you step into that situation. He will turn around and kill you too. Then, of course, obviously. Anything you can do to step in.

Not that there was much anyone on the train could do.

I mean, I don't think there was an outcome change, no matter what anyone on that train did.

Unfortunately.

But would I want her to step in?

Of course. If she felt she was safe, yes.

Think about, you said, your wife. Think about your daughter. Your daughter is on that train, just watching someone else getting murdered like that. Would you advise your daughter to jump into a situation like that?

That girl sitting across the aisle was somebody's daughter. I don't know, man.

JASON: I would. You know, as a dad, would I advise.

Hmm. No.

As a human being, would I hope that my daughter or my wife or that I would get up and at least comfort that woman while she's dying on the floor of a train?

Yeah.

I would hope that my daughter, my son, that I would -- and, you know, I have more confidence in my son or daughter or my wife doing something courageous more than I would.

But, you know, I think I have a more realistic picture of myself than anybody else.

And I'm not sure that -- I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I know what I would hope I would do. But I also know what I fear I would do. But I would have hoped that I would have gotten up and at least tried to help her. You know, help her up off the floor. At least be there with her, as she's seeing her life, you know, spill out in under a minute.

And that's it other thing we have to keep in mind. This all happened so rapidly.

A minute is -- will seem like a very long period of time in that situation. But it's a very short period of time in real life.

STU: Yeah. You watch the video, Glenn. You know, I don't need the video to -- to change my -- my position on this.

But at his seem like there was a -- someone who did get there, eventually, to help, right? I saw someone seemingly trying to put pressure on her neck.

GLENN: Yeah. And tried to give her CPR.

STU: You know, no hope at that point. How long of a time period would you say that was?

Do you know off the top of your head?

GLENN: I don't know. I don't know. I know that we watched the video that I saw. I haven't seen past 30 seconds after she --

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: -- is down. And, you know, for 30 seconds nothing is happening. You know, that is -- that is not a very long period of time.

STU: Right.

GLENN: In reality.

STU: And especially, I saw the pace he was walking. He certainly can't be -- you know, he may have left the actual train car by 30 seconds to a minute. But he wasn't that far away. Like he was still in visual.

He could still turn around and look and see what's going on at that point. So certainly still a threat is my point. He has not, like, left the area. This is not that type of situation.

You know, I -- look, as you point out, I think if I could be super duper sexist for a moment here, sort of my dividing line might just be men and women.

You know, I don't know if it's that a -- you're not supposed to say that, I suppose these days. But, like, there is a difference there. If I'm a man, you know, I would be -- I would want my son to jump in on that, I suppose. I don't know if he could do anything about it. But you would expect at least a grown man to be able to go in there and do something about it. A woman, you know, I don't know.

Maybe I'm -- I hope --

GLENN: Here's the thing I -- here's the thing that I -- that causes me to say, no. You should have jumped in.

And that is, you know, you've already killed one person on the train. So you've proven that you're a killer. And anybody who would have screamed and got up and was with her, she's dying. She's dying. Get him. Get him.

Then the whole train is responsible for stopping that guy. You know. And if you don't stop him, after he's killed one person, if you're not all as members of that train, if you're not stopping him, you know, the person at the side of that girl would be the least likely to be killed. It would be the ones that are standing you up and trying to stop him from getting back to your daughter or your wife or you.

JASON: There was a -- speaking of men and women and their roles in this. There was a video circling social media yesterday. In Sweden. There was a group of officials up on a stage. And one of the main. I think it was health official woman collapses on stage. Completely passes out.

All the men kind of look away. Or I don't know if they're looking away. Or pretending that they didn't know what was going on. There was another woman standing directly behind the woman passed out.

Immediately springs into action. Jumps on top. Grabs her pant leg. Grabs her shoulder. Spins her over and starts providing care.

What did she have that the other guys did not? Or women?

She was a sheepdog. There is a -- this is my issue. And I completely agree with Stu. I completely agree with you. There's some people that do not respond this way. My issue is the proportion of sheepdogs versus people that don't really know how to act. That is diminishing in western society. And American society.

We see it all the time in these critical actions. I mean, circumstances.

There are men and women, and it's actually a meme. That fantasize about hoards of people coming to attack their home and family. And they sit there and say, I've got it. You guys go. I'm staying behind, while I smoke my cigarette and wait for the hoards to come, because I will sacrifice myself. There are men and women that fantasize of block my highway. Go ahead. Block my highway. I'm going to do something about it. They fantasize about someone holding up -- not a liquor store. A convenience store or something. Because they will step in and do something. My issue now is that proportion of sheepdogs in society is disappearing. Just on statistical fact, there should be one within that train car, and there were none.

STU: Yeah. I mean --

JASON: They did not respond.

STU: We see what happens when they do, with Daniel Penny. Our society tries to vilify them and crush their existence. Now, there weren't that many people on that train. Right?

At least on that car. At least it's limited. I only saw three or four people there, there may have been more. I agree with you, though. Like, you see what happens when we actually do have a really recent example of someone doing exactly what Jason wants and what I would want a guy to do. Especially a marine to step up and stop this from happening. And the man was dragged by our legal system to a position where he nearly had to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I mean, I -- it's insanity. Thankfully, they came to their senses on that one.

GLENN: Well, the difference between that one and this one though is that the guy was threatening. This one, he killed somebody.

STU: Yeah. Right. Well, but -- I think -- but it's the opposite way. The debate with Penny, was should he have recognize that had this person might have just been crazy and not done anything?

Maybe. He hadn't actually acted yet. He was just saying things.

GLENN: Yeah. Well --

STU: He didn't wind up stabbing someone. This is a situation where these people have already seen what this man will do to you, even when you don't do anything to try to stop him. So if this woman, who is, again, looks to be an average American woman.

Across the aisle. Steps in and tries to do something. This guy could easily turn around and just make another pile of dead bodies next to the one that already exists.

And, you know, whether that is an optimal solution for our society, I don't know that that's helpful.

In that situation.