The far-left should no longer be considered a ‘woke’ religion, hyper focused on CRT, COVID restrictions, and gender identity. It’s actually worse than that, Glenn argues. The far-left in America has become a CULT — one that recruits, indoctrinates, and preys on vulnerable Americans in order to further its dangerous ideology. James Lindsay, founder of New Discourses, describes to Glenn the specific signs and tactics used by the far-left that prove this cult — one of the largest ones in human history — is a danger to all Americans the longer it persists...
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: James Lindsey, author of Racist Marxist. How are you?
JAMES: I'm all right. Given the circumstances.
GLENN: Everyone always has to say that now. Other than the country burning down, I think we're fine.
Okay. So, James, I want to talk to you about the cult dynamics of wokeness or wokism. I've been laying out for the audience this week. We don't have a problem with too much -- not enough religion. We have too much religion. What we're seeing, with environmentalism, and wokeness. And CRT. Race. Everything.
That is a religion. And it's become a cult. Can you explain how -- how -- because you've done serious work comparing CRT, and gender, and everything else, to cult behavior.
So take the process, and -- and break it up for us. How do these people become members of this cult? How has this happened to half our country?
JAMES: Well, I'll tell you, the first thing people need to understand, you're spot-on. So that's good. It is a religion. Marxism is a religion. If you want a nutshell, especially for Christians in the audience, where the gospel of John says that the logos, is the Christ.
The word became flesh, their religion is a religion of pathos, of emotion, of feeling, of fear, as a matter of fact.
So they have a religion of pathos. It's the largest cult startup in human history, because they've been able to propagandize. So the way you get people into a cult is by manipulating their vulnerability.
It's a very simple process. You make them feel vulnerable about something. And you give them that vulnerability through the doctor. One of the things -- and you'll probably be surprised since we're talking about Marxism that I will bring up here. Is you can tell people, for example, there's a very dangerous virus. This virus is incredibly dangerous. But if you just start wearing a mask, then you will be safer. So you give them a lot of concern, a lot of vulnerability. You make them afraid. And then you tell them something they can do.
And then that will help them protect themselves. Then you tell them, oh, no. It's much worse than we thought. You have to stay home. Oh, no. It's much worse than we thought. You have to get this vaccine. Then step after step after step, you ratchet up the vulnerability, and you give them something in line with the doctrine that they can do, to commit to. And if they do it and if everybody else does it too, then we'll be okay. And that manipulation of vulnerability is exactly how you induce somebody into a cult. And if you want to mass induce a cult, you can see what we did in the media over the last two or three years.
GLENN: So why is it though, the left is susceptible to this, and I guess the right is -- we have their own cult-like kind of things. But when we're talking about let's just say, the masks. It only worked on half the country. At least, it's only still working on half the country.
JAMES: Well, there's been a very long running program. I still think that this is kind of the master key to everything. I've studied communism now for a number of years. And you hear this again and again. Whether it's Mao Zedong or it's Lenin. It doesn't matter. The right-wing people. The right-wing people. The right-wing people. That's the problem. And they've been laying tracks for years, that whatever the political right wants to do is either evil or dumb or uninformed.
JAMES: Or propaganda. And so conservatives equals bad, is actually the -- the big cult. Right-wing equals bad is the big cult. So it's very effective. To get people to fall -- this is called social identity theory. And social psychology.
Get people to fall into two tribes, or multiple tribes that are kind of against one another. We've been laying tracks. I often like to blame Jon Stewart correctly for this. From The Daily Show, as a matter of fact. To make it out, that conservatives are always dumb, always bad intentioned, always bad people.
So you find otherwise smart, intelligent people, who identify as white liberals. Who, in utter fear of being identified as a conservative, will go along with whatever the establishment says. They also just aren't skeptical of that yet. CNN is TV. It's news. They aren't skeptical of that yet. So when they come and say, here's this thing. It's very scary. They get panicked. And then they get drawn into that pathos, to doing what they're being instructed to do, to resolve that feeling of comfort.
GLENN: So the first step is you find something that connects with people emotionally. You show them, wow, we're really vulnerable. This is really bad. But if you just do this. Then you keep moving them down the road. More and more demanding and insidious traits of the cult. And they just kind of are a frog, boiled slowly. The second step is indoctrination. Right?
JAMES: Yeah. That's right. So, for example, the switch examples of the virus and anti-racism, critical race theory.
You tell somebody, that you know these little things that you're doing in your life is racist. They definitely feel vulnerable.
They start getting pulled in. You give them, at some point, a lot of material to read. Not just something they can do, like you can do better. But now you need to read this book by Robin DiAngelo. That explains racism and white fragility. You need to read this book by Ibram Kendi, that tells you how to be an antiracist. You need to start going to these meetings at work, these DEI meetings, and listening to what they have to say. And you just have to start hammering the cult doctrine over and over and over again.
While in the background, you're still running this vulnerability cycling. And then you can really just get people to just get sucked into the worldview, as a matter of fact. That the cult has -- has decided to occupy. And so that -- that is an indoctrination phase. You're still using the vulnerability to get them pulled in deeper and deeper. And to separate, at this point, people who disagree with them. But you also will start to ask them to read large amounts of cult literature. Exposing them to large amounts of information one way or another.
GLENN: Let me push back a little bit. And I'm playing devil's advocate here. But there was a problem in the Jefferson administration. And the problem was the -- the war in Libya. Against the Barbary pirates. And he wanted to explain that this was crazy. And very, very dangerous what was going on. And so he wanted the -- the Koran published in its entirety. Not clips. And so they published the Koran here in the United States, in English. And he said, you have to read this, because this is a threat. And they won't stop. We might stop them this time. But they will continue to come at us. Until God says enough, or we destroy it.
Why is that not a cult. Giving you lots to read.
JAMES: Yeah. I spent most of my day reading Marxism, in some form or another. And Marxism is a gigantic cult. So it's possible to study a cult doctrine, without being pulled into the vulnerability cycling. The -- if the woke call me racist at this point, it doesn't make me feel vulnerable. I think I must have stumbled on something right. So it adds confidence. So I want to understand, so reading through the materials of a cult. That you can understand how the cult thinks. Is not necessarily the same thing, as being pulled into it. Or made to conform into it. As pain of excommunication or pain of abuse, et cetera.
GLENN: So the difference here, Jefferson made people fear. They said, okay. This is a real problem. Here's what you need to do: You need to understand.
But then there was no indoctrination. No making you feel like a bad person. You have to have those other things, correct?
JAMES: Yeah. The Jefferson get the Koran published and tell you, you're not a real American. And you have to leave, if you don't read it. No, of course not. You left the liberty side open. Whereas, you know, if you start getting pulled into the critical race theory cult, they tell you, you need to read Robin DiAngelo, and you refuse to do it, or Ibram Kendi, and you refuse to do it. Well, that's just you trying to protect your racism. That's just you trying to protect your access to whiteness. That's just you trying to keep the status quo. Or your own benefit from it. So they pull that -- see, that's that emotional vulnerability thing that they start ripping on you again. The second you don't comply. Now, if we go back to the masks, if you don't want to wear a mask, you want to kill grandma. We'll never get out of the pandemic if you don't wear your mask. You're hurting everybody, and that's the difference between a cult, and giving people information about something going on. And letting them choose to study it or not.
GLENN: And it is also the reason why they say the -- the conversation is over. The discussion is up. The science is settled. The earth is going to be destroyed. And if you don't agree, you want everybody to die a horrible death.
JAMES: Yeah. And you're just selfish. And want to ride out your last few years with your pickup truck. Having a good time not caring about anybody else. That's the emotional manipulation they're using to bring people into that doctrine.
And like I said, they give you something to do, every single time, which is going to involve reading a lot of literature, to resolve your feelings of tension. Although, these books will bring you further into that. Which will then help you facilitate how you need to be an antiracist better. Or too your part. Or whatever it happens to be, for the greater good.
GLENN: Okay. So when we come back, I want you to talk about deprogramming. Because that's the hard part. And, James, tell me if I'm wrong here.
We've been approaching this with reason and with political arguments. And every time we get mad. Every time we push back, that's what they expect us to do. And so they're prepared for that. They're not prepared for understanding and kindness. With disagreement. And we keep making the problem worse, by the tactics that we currently use. Because we think, it's a normal conversation. But it's not.
It's a conversation with people who have already been brainwashed. Correct?
JAMES: Yeah. That's more or less correct.
GLENN: Okay. So tell me where I'm less correct, when we come back. And so I make sure I understand it clearly. Then show us how to deprogram people. What are the tactics that would help free people back into their own -- in their own choice, and reason.
All right. So, James, can you take us through deprogramming? And why don't we use gender theory as an in?
Can you do that?
JAMES: Yeah. We can give that a go. Deprogramming is extremely hard. I don't want to give people false hope. That we can just -- you'll listen to the program and just talk to people, and they're going to suddenly realize that there are two genders. And everything is great.
JAMES: Yeah. It turns out to be very difficult. Usually what you have with people in a cult, is they have a very sealed, if you will, belief system. So there's an excuse for everything. You say this, they have some excuse for that. And if you want to get to the deprogramming, one of two things has to happen. Either, you have to say something that gets them to kind of go cross-eyed for a second. Where they don't have their hermetically answer available. Or something has to happen in their life that shakes them up a little bit, and causes them to have that initial doubt. It all starts with an initial doubt in the doctrine. Something they can't resolve. When one of those things happens -- this is where I've said, more or less correct, you wanted me to explain how you're a little less correct. They're not totally hermetically sealed. So when somebody experiences doubt, they are also experiencing starvation for reality. They're very hungry for an explanation for what's going on around them. They may only be able to digest so much. For example, many people who have voted Democrat their entire lives right now, are noticing that the sexual grooming going on in the schools, and the cult grooming, which is by and large, more than the sexual grooming that's happening. When they see that, they see something is off.
They know that childhood innocence is something important, something to protect. That children should not be sexualized. Or gender identities, or identity confusion, as a matter of fact. That's where you're going to find that break. And that's when you can start to have an open and honest dialogue. Because they'll be starving for truth. They might not be ready to hear that the Marxists have run a sexualization of children program to overthrow society, since the 1920s, when Derks Lucoch (phonetic) did it in Hungry. They may not be ready for that.
GLENN: I don't know if I'm ready for that. But God bless you for knowing it. So where do you start?
JAMES: Well, you have to start where they are expressing confusion. When you hear somebody say, for example. And you will hear this very many times. What's going on here?
And then you tell people, well -- where you consult with that is with the gender saying, some very bizarre beliefs about gender have taken hold. And the people who have taken a hold of them. Have decided that they have to put into children as early as possible. And then if you really want to throw a wedge in there, you can point out. Everybody says, it's to protect LGBT kids, who don't have maybe the support at home. Or whatever. If you actually read their literature about it, which is why you do have to do what Jefferson and get informed, you'll see they say in their own words that queer theory, which is what is actually informing this, is not about creating a stable LGBTQ identity. It's, in fact, about creating an identity that stays fluid and never solidifies. And if that alarms you about a child, or seems to open them up to grooming, then we can talk further.
GLENN: James Lindsey. He's the founder of new discourses. You can find this at newdiscourses.com. Newdiscourses.com. And he's also the author of race Marxism. Both, I urge you to check out. Back in a minute.